"And if you were genuinely thinking that this is a cult that brainwashed people..."
When did I ever say that Hassidic Judaism is a cult that brainwashes people?
I said that, if it's the flavour of Judaism that I'm thinking of, I think it's toxic. There are lots of toxic denominations of various religions, but that doesn't make them cults.
"...then you would actually listen to those who have grown up/lived in these communities..."
a) So listening to an organization by ex-Hassidics for ex-Hassidics and questioning-Hassidics doesn't count because... why, exactly?
I explicitly listed a Jewish ex-Hassidic source in my original response, but you act as if I'm getting my opinions from out of nowhere.
b) When did I ever say we shouldn't listen to members of the denomination, let alone to ex-members of the denomination about their experiences?
I'm perfectly willing to hear out anyone, especially about their experiences, but that doesn't mean I have to ultimately agree with them or condone their every action.
"In my personal experience a lot of the work done towards helping people leave the community is done with consideration of people's current situation."
I never claimed it wasn't nor that it should be any different.
"Simply put people losing their faith is an incredibly stressful and traumatic situation in and of itself without any familial pressure."
Yes, which I acknowledged in my original response. Your point being...?
"Me wearing jeans for the first time a month ago was scary for me not because my parents would kick me out of the house but because I was taught that God disapproved of that."
a) I never so much as implied that the only issue with losing one's faith or exiting one's denomination was that one would get kicked out of their home.
I never even touched on the subject beyond saying that leaving can be "hard and traumatic". I'm well aware that situations can be more complex than just getting kicked out. Atheists often have to deal with the exact same kinds of situations when they become atheists if their previous denomination was toxic, regardless of which religion they were.
b) And I think that a denomination that teaches people to be scared of wearing or not wearing certain clothing is toxic.
Not because the person will get kicked out, but because they're being made to be anxious and scared over a piece of fabric. I think the same thing about Christian denominations who guilt women and girls about what they choose to wear. Like I said in my original response, I'm not singling out Jewish denominations.
"When my parents genuinely believe that I am risking kares ... if I eat chometz on Pesach they try to stop me out of fear because that is their reality."
And the fact that they were taught that they need to fear for your safety and well-being based on when you eat what you eat (beyond the "you're allergic/intolerant, don't eat that!" kind of way) when you don't follow their denomination's dietary rules is problematic. It's harming their peace of mind because they were taught that something harmless isn't harmless.
b) I never implied nor suggested that people who genuinely ascribe to a toxic denomination are inherently bad people or doing toxic things out of malice.
As I've said on multiple posts before, I get that people genuinely believe that the teachings of their religion/denomination are true. Because that's what they were taught. But it doesn't make what they were taught any less toxic.
It's entirely possible to do something toxic with the best of intentions.
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