(K/J) + M

A fun place to watch the fandom implode. I've also accepted there will be a lot of Jimin here.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Masterlist

My View on BTS Member Promotions in Chapter 2, 'Favouritism', 'Mistreatment', etc.

**

BTS and K-pop - General Themes

BPP 2023 Post Highlights

Mitski and BTS on Losing Their Love For Making Music (Repost)

On BTS's Success Being Inorganic (Repost)

A Comment on BTS and the 2022 Grammys (Repost)

Is It Xenophobic for ARMYs to Want Success for BTS in the West? (Repost)

The Reason BTS Stands Apart From and Outperforms Other Groups (Repost)

On the Subject of Hate in K-pop Fandoms (Repost)

A Rant on BTS and Black Women Representation (Repost)

Lol BTS Paved the Way (Repost)

**

Member Posts (mostly Jimin)

More of My Views on Jimin Being Hated

On the Topic of Jimin Being a Dozen (Repost)

Jimin's Got that Busan Juju (Repost) + A Comment on His Photo Folio

Something I'd like to Say About Jimin (Repost)

Summary Views on Jimin (Repost)

Ask on If I'm a Jimin Bias

**

Misc.

My Views on Consent and Real Person Fanfics (Repost)

On Listening to Other K-pop Idols Besides BTS (Repost)

Other Artists I Listen to Besides BTS

The Hello and Goodbye

**

Jikook

Summary Thoughts on KM (Repost)

Ask on If I think Jikook are Dating

Ask on If Jikooking Causes Friction with Namjoon and other BTS members

Ask on How the Fandom Reacts to Jikook

Ask on If Taekookers are Right That Mr. Park is Playing Into Jikook for Personal Gain

My Views on Taehyung Mentioning Taekook in WLives and Jokers Losing Their Minds Over It

My View on Jikook's Rosebowl

My Reaction to Jungkook's Birthday Video for Jimin

Ask on How Appropriate it is to Discuss Jikook's Sexuality (Repost)

Ask on Jikook Doing a Show Like Wooga Squad In The SOOP

This post is a living document.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

I sent you a bunch of asks about NewJeans and I felt bad at first that you didn't reply then I noticed you haven't replied to my BTS or Jikook asks either. In fact you don't seem to be posting at all. Is everything okay BPP?

The recent tone from your replies is like you don't like this comeback or you think it is below BTS standard, am I right in thinking this? Are you thinking of unstanning BTS?

No worries if you don't want to answer btw I am just curious. Me I'm trying to focus on the positive for both BTS and Newjeans.

***

Hi @denimsnextdoor

I'm fine.

I feel I've said everything I feel the need to say about this comeback, about BTS, about jikook, about Newjeans.

Of all of these I think my pullback from BTS might be the most weird, so I'll talk about it.

Compared to my excitement before the comeback, my response is muted now because I was mostly disappointed - the same sloppification happening in the rest of HYBE unfortunately made its way to BTS despite my best hopes - but I'm happy enough (shout out to Come Over, Like Animals, and 2.0) to remain interested in whatever BTS does in the future. I've never faked it with BTS. If I don't feel it I don't feel it. And with the sort of album Arirang is, with the sort of tour specifics I'm seeing now (no live band, disjointed playthrough, overall bad to average organization, etc), with the kind of non-music content served up (inflated merch prices for mediocre or uninspired products, vlogs that seem more like corporate obligations than genuine sharing - to some degree that's always been the case but it's even more glaring now, etc), I've decided to take what I like from this comeback and step back for now. I feel exactly zero compulsion to obsess or gush over anything related to BTS right now, including jikook. The members also seem to be going through personal transitions and are kind of figuring out the kind of people they want to be with the new level of freedom and wealth at their disposal. I'm observing that too and waiting to see where they land.

Whenever the guys are done with whatever's been going on this era, I'll check back in. Sorry if you've been expecting replies, especially the sorts of in-depths I used to do - I simply don't have it in me to do that lately.

I find very little about this era genuinely exciting. But I have hopes that BTS will eventually wow me because I still believe they genuinely care about music and each other.

Right now though? Their latest stuff simply isn't for me. I gave it time to grow on me. It hasn't, and so I've accepted it's time to check out until the next album.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Hello again, @beautifulpersonpeach, Thank you for pointing me toward Shinee. Since they have been around an impressive 18 years, they had similar decisions to make, but not from as high a perch as BTS.  

I looked up Shinee regarding their enlistment/discharge strategy and times. I also researched when they subsequently put out music as a group as well as what the response was at that time.  All of that was helpful to give me more perspective of how BTS chose to handle their unprecedented situation.  There were some similarities but many differences.  

Shinee also had the complication of determining how to carry on after they suffered a self-inflicted loss of life by one of the members, a difficult challenge indeed. Just as I have expressed my wish that fans consider BTS’s exceptional circumstances when stating their views of the group's current projects that followed the hiatus and military service, I hope Shinee’s fans as well as the general public kept those difficult circumstances in mind too. I hope that they considered the atmosphere surrounding their having to pick up and move forward after such a devastating event, followed by their own eventual military enlistment separations. That’s all I’m asking for toward BTS as well.

RM said in the current Live that BTS made the best decisions they could for the moment.  I believe that.  I don’t think they were trying to put out subpar music (and they didn’t) or create a lackluster concert experience (TBD, My concert date hasn’t arrived yet.). The circumstances - some unavoidable, some self-inflicted (as you’ve pointed out) - framed or limited the amount or types of choices they were able to make at that time.

Since it was their first musical & performance effort after a lengthy gap in group work, they may have felt an urgency to perform again and to also make a huge impression about their return. They moved fast and reached big.  That’s actually the Bangtan Sonyeondan I have always known and/or researched.  They have always been very ambitious and reached for things people told them weren’t wise or possible.  I want them to keep doing that as long as they still have the fire (or FYA) to do so.  The good thing is the discouraging words and naysayers have never stopped them.  

It’ll be interesting to keep watching how BTS and the fandom govern themselves from here. I would like them to successfully be around for 18+ years as well. Thank you for sharing your perspectives with me.

*

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Full circle moment seeing them sit down for Festa dinner 2026 after the tears and chaos of that Festa 2022 dinner BPP. Despite everything it feels good to see them all back together again.

Is there anything they said during the dinner that stood out to you?

***

I haven't watched the 2026 Festa dinner yet so I can't say... in fact I've not really watched or actively followed any BTS content this Festa and for the last year or so, I've not felt the need to engage with BTS content or the fandom. My friends keep me updated on the gist from time to time so I have a decent idea of what's going on (and because nothing ever really changes here, the same discourse is recycled every three months), but yeah sorry, I can't speak to particulars around this year's Festa because I haven't actually watched it, but I agree it's lovely all the guys are back together.

Like they said they would be.

This Festa I'm just waiting for Come Over's official release.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Thank you for your response.  I appreciate your thoughts. https://www.tumblr.com/beautifulpersonpeach/818144671055347712/hello-again-you-and-i-had-an-exchange-in-your?source=share

I don’t disagree with your overall views actually. I  agree that some of the conditions were self-inflicted for a variety of reasons; however, I don’t feel all of them were.  After a few more thoughts, I do have a question too.

I also am watching to see what they do next.  There are decisions they have made in this era for this album and concert tour that I don’t agree with or like. If they create the next project with more time, more team cohesion for choosing themes & direction, and fuller mental clarity (not just having come off a long break and military service), and I get similar decisions, I get to choose my continued level of commitment & support as well. However, I’m really considering the current project and the circumstances surrounding it for now. 

I do want them to receive honest, constructive feedback and for them to evaluate it effectively. I would also like fans to reflect on their complaints and expectations too. There were many fans clamoring for them to hurry up and produce music, performances, etc.  There were others who were willing to wait patiently and, in fact, preferred that option, including myself, but this is the direction they chose. I’m just saying I don’t think the results were as disappointing (to me) as I am hearing others express, considering the circumstances fully.

They have reasons we may never know for why they felt this was the best plan, and as a fan, I feel more consideration for their choices and the circumstances should weigh into the critiques.   

I read an opinion piece recently (I don’t recall who), where the writer offered that with more voices and contributors, you can tend to get a product that is less cohesive, more disjointed - or it would take far more skill and effort (and time?) to produce a more smoothly unified result.  They suggested that MOTS felt a bit disjointed to them, so they felt some of what we see now was already in the making. Now we have 7 older men, all who have developed solo strength and experience, all who are contributing to the project, not just the album but the music videos, concert plans, etc. I say this to say Covid disrupted their flow of progress (maybe for the good) then the military experience occurred, they need a moment to get back into the groove AND find a way to work with the new dynamics and environment, including the corporate expectations, new contract powers, more self-directed projects, etc.  

They could have waited until they learned and developed all of the needed information & skills or they could have jumped in and tried to learn the new group dynamics and new processes by doing, trying, experimenting.  As Suga said, there is no manual or examples ahead of them to show them how it is done, so they are learning as they go.  

This will be a good stress test to see how strong the true fandom, they worked so hard to build, actually is. On a good note, maybe this could cause a fandom cleansing I have been hoping for for a while.  As their direction shifts, perhaps the fandom will too and all in a direction it needs to go.

So you are right, they will have to determine whether the decisions they made were worth it and hopefully learn from the results. That’s how BTS has operated and grown in the past.  As for my question: I've come to learn that you are someone who has been around this music industry for a long while: Do you know an example of a KPop/Asian group particularly (or solo artist secondarily) who had similar circumstances to BTS? If so, how did their effort and results compare? I don't have much historical knowledge for the industry in this regard at all.

Thanks for your time.

***

Hi @jimin-bangtan

I'm just a music fan who has been listening to k-pop for almost 20 years and I'm not saying that to be humble, I'm saying that to clarify expectations lol.

Your question is easy to answer though - I don't know of any other group that has similar circumstances to BTS. Far as I know, BTS's circumstances are singular, no k-pop group has ever gotten to their level, and while navigating management from the most powerful k-pop agency this industry has ever seen. When BTS says they have no real blueprint to follow, I believe them completely.

But in terms of long-lasting groups with mature members who have established solo identities and strong egos but who also remain committed to the group, there are a few examples of groups that are doing that very well.

One such group is SHINee. They've remained a group for 18 years, they just released a group album and are touring together right now actually. Outside of their solo work, they aren't really idols who always take an active part in writing or producing, but they have a team they've worked with consistently for years who take their input, including for their latest album. SM Entertainment is known for running song camps for several of their groups, with their groups' main producers, creating a bank of demos/potential songs for regular comebacks, and this includes for SHINee. Even when they've taken risks in their music or tried new genres or sounds, SHINee has remained linked to their core team and so it's generally worked well for them. In terms of solo careers, Taemin is the maknae of the group and in some ways the most popular, but Minho, Onew, and Key are very well respected in their own right and are doing very well for themselves.

Of course, BTS has very different group dynamics compared to SHINee, and many other factors make this even less of an apples to apples comparison. But isn't it safe to assume there are parallels in how a group of Korean men who grew up in the idol system, men with strong egos and artistic identities, can experiment and constructively take on ambitious projects without imploding or even worse, becoming... lame?

What do you think?

[beautifulpersonpeach]

"If idols who are several years their junior, idols some of whom are women and so are even less respected in Korea...then the members of BTS most certainly can."

I don't follow many all women k-pop groups. Are you alluding to NJ? The narrative has become so convoluted online with how long it's gone on.

***

Newjeans aren't the only women who have tried to assert themselves in this industry, but yes I was alluding to them as well as others.

I don't think the narrative is convoluted at all, though I can see this being true for international fans who get most of their updates from ARMY or HYBE-linked sources. In which case, the narrative has to be convoluted otherwise a lot of people would have to wrestle with very uncomfortable ramifications. But again, this is all par for the course in how most disputes with powerful k-pop agencies typically play out for the wider base.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

You used to be a jikook blog, right? If not please forgive me and disregard the rest. Have you ever been drawn to a pairing in any other boy or girl group?

***

Nothing like jikook.

This is k-pop so of course there are interesting pairings in most groups and a few I've talked about before are Yunjae in TVXQ, Jaywon in Enhypen, Minsung in Stray Kids, Hyuna and Dawn, and a few others I can't remember right now. And even within BTS I've talked about pairings like Yoonmin, Minimoni, Taekook and Vhope before.

But again, it's been nothing like jikook.

Even in a sea of questionable fruity behaviour, jikook stands out, and I think a big reason for that is because of who Jimin and Jungkook are as individuals. As separate entities they're already quite peculiar compared to most other k-pop idols, but when you consider their relationship to each other, a well documented, consistent relationship that spans more than a decade, their pairing takes on another quality and they become, or at least appear to become, something else. Something more fun to observe.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

I think I'm a bit like what you just posted about yourself, your thoughts, and your questions regarding this tour.

I know we'll likely never know - even long after the group disbands - but I am curious which percentage of the members were truly unhappy being forced into BS's timeline after such a heartfelt Festa live announcing their hiatus and then turning around and slapping an album and world tour together so soon after all were out of the military with at least one member's current efforts being snubbed in order to meet the deadline.

***

Yeah, but again, I doubt any of the members were truly unhappy about any of this. After all, they agreed to all this. No matter the issue, I can't ever see the members as being "forced" to do anything. I can't ever bring myself to diminish their agency in any way, no matter how compromising some of their actions appear. If idols who are several years their junior, idols some of whom are women and so are even less respected in Korea, can take huge risks to assert themselves and what they think is their right, then the members of BTS most certainly can.

They simply choose not to. Whether it's to not rock the boat, whether it's for group cohesion, whether they weigh the financial, social, artistic benefits on the whole as worth it, whether the choice aligns with their personal motivations, whether they don't particularly care about the issue, or whether it's something else, the members chose this, allowed this, and so ultimately wanted it.

I also hope one day we get a fuller picture of what's happening behind the veil. Now that they're older, their egos are bound to compete more directly. On the one hand that could mean more interesting OT7 music and concepts, on the other, well, it could mean unhelpful conflict and pathological compromise.

But even then, it would be something they've chosen. 100%.

[yoongikook]

that's yoongi's favorite popstar 🥺 (cr. biancadimillo)

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Do you think military service ended up being good for them? That if they didn't take that forced 3-year break, the group may have started fracturing because of the stress of expectations and non-stop activities?

***

Joon has mentioned a few times now how if not for the military break, or the Chapter 2 break just before the military, it's possible they would've considered disbanding. So of course, when I hear things like that, there's no other choice but to take their military leave as a blessing.

Could it have been better if they were exempted from the military, or if they briefly split up for solo projects and then had a year of vacation or something else instead? Possibly. But maybe the military changed them positively in profound ways. So far, none of the members have talked at real length about their experiences in the military so it's hard to judge anything definitively.

Jungkook has talked about how the military made him feel more passionate about performing

Joon has talked about how the military forced him to slow down even though he was troubled by issues happening at the company

The other members have expressed vague forms of appreciation for the experience even while they all say it was a hard time, but that's all run of the mill stuff.

I'd hoped that after the burden of military obligation was lifted, BTS would feel more free to return to their critical dissection of Korean society and politics as they'd done in their earlier music. I'd hoped their military experience would sharpen their senses for critical assessment of Korean society. Seeing how the Korean government dangled the possibility of exemption towards the members, only reinforced that feeling for me. Unfortunately, it seems that in the 2 years BTS was in the military, HYBE (and Bang Sihyuk specifically) has become more politically enmeshed than even SM was at their peak. I still have some hope that politically-conscious BTS will return but that hope is diminished, naturally. For this reason alone, personally I have some regrets about their military service, but at the same time, BTS members themselves seem to have a more positive view of their time serving so we just have to take them at their word.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Hello again. You and I had an exchange in your comment section a few months ago. https://beautifulpersonpeach.tumblr.com/post/811899902736089088/i-agree-with-everything-you-and-that-last-anon You don't have to post this. I'm not writing it for that purpose, but I'll leave that decision to you. I just wanted to follow up (for now, early in the tour) about my feeling somewhat vindicated in my thoughts, based on RM's recent Live, where he discussed the Arirang album and circumstances surrounding it's development. He considers it a "miraculous" production, considering the time frame, obstacles, limitations, etc. as I was describing in our discussion. He is amazed, as am I, about how much they were able to pull together and accomplish in that time frame and situation. That includes all of the activities & achievements too. He acknowledges that it's not a perfect work, and as a result, parts can be somewhat disconnected, but they were able to figure things out with the new dynamics and a huge absence from the music scene and make something that overall did work, as best as they could, to fulfill the promises and gratitude intended. This is one reason for artists to work so hard to develop a solid, trusting, supportive fanbase (as BTS did) - or at least a solid base of your fandom that goes with you on the ride, understanding that your journey is, and has always been, on a convoluted path. They could have chosen to do the easier paths, but they never have chosen that, nor have they been given that. As we are early in the tour, I'm still watching to see how the entire moment progresses and completes, but at the moment I still stand by my belief that not many others could have done as much or this well in the time frame and circumstances that BTS has.

***

Hi @jimin-bangtan !

Your link.

Thanks for sending in this ask. You're right that Joon basically confirmed a lot of what you said about the constraints they dealt with, and I agree with you that BTS is possibly one of the only groups able to create an ambitious album despite all those constraints. You also make a point I don't think I've seen people focus on, or perhaps not in the way you've done here: which is that BTS has been able to make this album succeed because they worked hard to build a trusting and supportive fanbase, one that's been more understanding than critical on the whole. If we're giving BTS their flowers, then we can at least do so for this. There's been a deluge of criticism (fair and unfair) and I appreciate you sending in a POV that rounds out our perspective to remind us of the conditions under which the album was made in the first place.

But I'm afraid this is where I deviate from your POV, and I apologize in advance for using your ask to go on a ramble. Like you, Joon's live confirmed certain concerns for me.

The first is that many of those constraints, conditions, and circumstances were self-inflicted. Let's remember, in the documentary Bang Sihyuk talked about how he asked BTS to begin working on the album as soon as they were discharged from the military. He set the deadline of March 2026 for the album release before they'd even *started* working on the album. These are constraints the members could've pushed back on, we know they didn't and we know why they say they didn't, but the fact remains having such a tight timeline would mean tradeoffs would have to be made, and that's exactly what happened. Now from Joon's live it appears they are assessing if those tradeoffs were worth it, and this is where honest, critical feedback from people who love them and their music could prove helpful. It's why I'm not shying away from any opportunity to do so.

The choice to hold the longest tour ever attempted for a k-pop group, even longer than the canceled MOTS tour, starting right after the album was released, was another decision that appears to be more corporate than personal in its motivations. Again, this is a self-inflicted constraint and going ahead with it meant obvious implications for setlist construction and performance, which is what has happened. At some point, BTS will have to assess if the tradeoffs have been worth it, and I hope when that happens they are able to hear from all sides what works and what doesn't.

BTS are at a point in their careers where they have no real excuse to be pigeonholed by constraints and expectations (corporate and not) that don't work for them. And when I say expectations, I'm including my own. After all, I'm just a fan like everyone else. I'm not their manager or producer. I'm a fan with certain expectations, one of which is that I associate music and performance at a very high standard with BTS, and when I don't see that I have questions:

Do my standards no longer match what BTS wants?

Does BTS intend to move in another direction?

Is this a one-off or is this the new status quo?

Am I alright with this and if not, do I want to continue making my 5-figure donations to support BTS annually?

Those sorts of questions.

With time I'll get my answers, and Joon's live was helpful for me to begin getting some.

It's true Joon said the fact this album was made at all was "miraculous" given the pressure, internal and external, the financial cost, and everything else. He's right. Frankly, the album wasn't so bad that it warrants months of discourse. We can just acknowledge their accomplishment in making a very decent album despite etc, going on an ambitiously long tour to see as many of their fans as possible, and keeping their promises to ARMY by remaining a strong OT7 team. We can really just leave things at that, and focus more on the positive than the negative so that we remain an encouraging support for BTS. That's what most of the fandom is doing anyway, to be fair.

Personally, I'm usually a bit more... acerbic. And I can't ignore when I feel there's tea sitting in a pot somewhere, placed dangerously, precipitously on the edge of a table, where one small tip is all it will take to make a big spill. I suspect as time goes on, the members will give us more insight into their feelings this era and their plans for future projects. Maybe a few months from now, Joon will do another live and we'll both revisit this conversation with more info to round out our perspectives, with more grace to give... or maybe some asses to whoop.

I guess we'll see.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

I was confused Namjoon said people don't care about lyrics anymore and that he wanted to keep telling stories while at the same time praising Hooligan and saying that was the high bar they wanted the rest of the album to reach? A song that basically says nothing? The lyrics in the album are nothing to write home about, what does he want us to discuss? Other singers have written much better lyrics about similar topics (excluding Aliens of this conversation), themselves included.

*

Ask 2:

"Because a lot of the negative feedback on this album is very much an indictment on Bang Sihyuk's creative decisions as well"

This is partly what really frustrated me upon release and when his interview went live. He sounded so incredibly pompous and disconnected from the fandom that helped BTS reach the heights they have.

Do you think that specific negativity reached Bang in any meaningful way?

*

Ask 3:

It broke my heart a little hearing Namjoon repeat over and over again "I wish Swim received more love" while he was saying their album has had the best chart success...... It's like he **knows** the chart success is forced because most people don't actually like listening to Swim. Sure some fans like it, but in my Army gc a lot of people admitted they skip it and only stream it to hit goals. The way Namjoon kept repeating that made it look like he's begging the fandom to genuinely like the song? Like if he explains his thought process behind why a low energy song he wants played at his funeral with lyrics like "swim swim... where the hell you at girl?" is the lead song, then people will magically love the song more and suddenly think the writing is deep........ Ya some people in the fandom will def react like that now but most others will still have their own opinions. The way he kept saying how much he loves Swim, how writing the lyrics took a very long time for him (I find this hard to believe ngl) almost felt manipulative, it reminded me of Hoseok's live where he was saying how much he wanted the fandom to give him chart success for his solo and I wonder if the guys have always been this direct in their demands from the fandom or if I'm older now so I'm seeing these demands more clearly or if something has changed in another way with me and the rose-tinged glasses are falling off. Watching Namjoon's live made me feel sad not because he seemed to be struggling with how people weren't connecting with his lyricism in Swim and other songs, but because I was hoping for a more raw and candid exploration of the album and I didn't see that. Or at least more honesty about the commerciality for American music charts they clearly prioritized when making Arirang. It made me realize I might have finally outgrown BTS. They were helpful to me at one point when I was much younger but the members all seem to be kind of... I don't know how to say it. If this is the direction they are going in now then it's prolly the right time for me to step back. What do you think BPP? Isn't this what you're always talking about? That people should just leave if they no longer connect with a group instead of staying and becoming resentful and eventually an anti? I still like BTS so I want to part while I still have very good memories of them.

***

Anon in ask 3, I'll start with you first.

I've seen sentiments like yours in a few places now and I think part of what might be fueling it, is timing. In a typical BTS comeback, Namjoon would host a live either the day of release or at most a couple days after release to explain in detail his thought process behind the lyrics, production and song selection on the album. Much like the live he did some hours ago. Some chatter I've seen suggests one reason some people find his recent live manipulative or otherwise coached, is because it appears he's only doing this deep dive, months later, after seeing critical feedback has been widespread and more negative than he would like. And it could be true that this live was damage control to get the fandom/general audience to better appreciate his writing choices, but it could also be true that there might be other things that influenced the timing and pushed him to comment on this as late as he did. Maybe he assumed the Studio Notes and other OT7 group interviews done at release would be a sufficient replacement for his deep-dive lives, maybe something else happened. But I think the reaction to his live, and maybe to the album, would be less fraught if he'd communicated his thoughts about the lyrics etc much earlier than now. It would've helped align expectations not just within the fandom, but for himself and how to interpret the wider audience's response to Arirang. That didn't happen, his comments seem to be coming too late for a lot of people, and it's a shame.

To push back on a few things you said, Joon did say that Swim was considered the title track explicitly because it was the best fit for American radio and general repeatability out of the songs they made. So he was candid about the focus on commerciality there at least. And while I understand why many people found Hobi's chart comments distasteful, it's also true BTS have generally never shied away from aggressively pursuing chart success knowing ARMY is how they get it. Most times they've been covert or subtle with their requests, Hobi did away with subtlety and that's all that was.

Also, sometimes I think people forget that BTS are k-pop idols, seasoned k-pop idols at that who are very skilled at playing the game, and so you're never really going to get 'raw and candid' in a truly unfiltered sense. It's never been like that with any of them. As much as some people might want them to more actively rage against the machine the older they get, so long as they remain k-pop idols, so long as they want to keep playing this game (because in many ways that's what this industry is), their speech will always be somewhat restrained. That said, I want to believe Joon was being as honest as he could in that live, much as he usually is when he communicates with ARMY. It's fair if you still found his level of disclosure disappointing, and if you feel you're outgrowing BTS then I'm glad you're choosing to step back now, but please don't feel like you have to write them off only because of this comeback. The tour is long, but one day it will be over and they'll be back to making music. Who knows how they will be then? Aren't you curious to find out?

*

Anon in ask 2, I don't know what to tell you lmao. Are you seriously asking me if a chaebol with ties to both political parties, who can pull strings at the American embassy in Seoul, was touched by negative criticism to an album he botched made? The obvious answer is no. Before he did whatever he did in Arirang and with this tour, I saw him do it with other HYBE groups whose recent singles/albums/concepts have also faced significant negative criticisms from their own fandoms, and he's been impervious to it all. Naturally.

*

Anon in ask 1, I think they considered Hooligan to be the best in terms of production. In my opinion, it's one of the best produced songs on the album, which is a little unfortunate considering the song's lyrics are basic.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

THANK YOU for calling out the defensiveness. I thought I was going crazy over here when people are pretending we just stopped analyzing lyrics and not talking about the quality of the lyrics in the first place? Like hello??? I don't blame joon cos I know he's under a lot of pressure but omg can we at least be so fucking fr as a fandom rn?

***

Like I said:

"Whatever their intentions with this album and comeback, there's an undeniable issue with execution and misalignment between what they wanted to convey and how it's been perceived more generally."

I think some ARMYs are just giving Joon the benefit of doubt and is that really wrong or unexpected?

If I wanted to give Joon the benefit of doubt, I'd say he could be feeling that way for a couple of reasons:

Because he's not a native English speaker. I'm not either - I'm certainly more fluent in this language than Joon, but I can also see how some of the (English) language choices in Arirang could seem 'vivid' and how that could translate to seeming 'impactful' for someone who doesn't speak English fluently. I mean, it's pretty obvious a lot of the lyrics (which honestly seem like holdovers from the original demos - I'm not just saying that to excuse the members), sound pretty mid or typical for brain-rot American radio. Not the kinds of lyrics that inspire any analysis. And it cheapens their Korean lyrics which do seem to have more thought put into them.

That's the only way I've been able to rationalize a lot of what's on that album to myself.

2. This one is bit more out there, but I speculate that a version of HYBE's internal report is still going around. Meaning, HYBE still routinely scrapes social media sites to consolidate opinions on their artists and then presents a report of sorts to the members and HYBE executives. Because a lot of the negative feedback on this album is very much an indictment on Bang Sihyuk's creative decisions as well, I could easily see one summary of the report being something about how Gen Z and fans more generally no longer read or analyze lyrics, rather than many of the lyrics being, you know, sub-par. If this is the case, then it's not entirely his fault for taking the view he did.

Then again, he really just could be right and we're wrong, or we're right and he's not yet able to absorb that criticism. Either way, there's plenty of time to see how things pan out.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Do you think with the criticism they been hearing yet still breaking massive records with billboard, concert revenue, AMAs, etc., it makes Jimin and the others feel even more in tune with "They Don't Know About Us" and how it's an undeniable problem?

Also (this part you can ignore if you want) but your tags about Joon and the heartbreak, could you elaborate? I thought the chatter online about more than a friend was all the instagram posts with the heart over the person's face.

***

I don't think all the members equally feel the sentiments in TDKBU - a personal hunch. I suspect members like Jimin and Yoongi could feel it more deeply or perhaps see it as a problem on a different level than members like Joon, Tae and Hoseok. In any case we can assume all the members would feel some type of way regardless of the fandom/critics' responses, or rather, the mismatch in responses. After all, on the one hand, BTS knowing they're bound to be positively received by the majority of their fandom no matter what they do, is something the guys recognize as potentially disturbing. But on the other hand, it's clear they relish the security that near-guaranteed, positive reception gives them, and it's even more clear that the fandom understands this as well.

Like I said initially, I don't think Joon struggles with this as much as it initially seems. Notice how he was willing to eschew typical 'ARMY' expectations when making this album. I think Jimin and maybe a couple other members agonize over it more. And yeah, if he (Jimin) has been reading the criticisms, it could validate his concerns about their trajectory.

About Joon's heartbreak, I was kinda joking but basically, a lot of Joon biases have been reading into his lyrics, posts, IG updates etc since Indigo era and speculated he might've been in a relationship or was going through a rough patch/break up. There's nothing actually concrete we're basing this on, and even my comment on it just now was kinda tongue in cheek, but you know what they say...

Where there's smoke there's usually fire.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

damn BPP have you always been this harsh with BTS?

***

Lol I'm the same as I've always been. If you think this is harsh you should search up my initial reviews of Jungkook's Seven.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Lol. In case anyone forgot, these are the lyrics of One More Night (English translation sourced from Genius)

[Verse 1: RM] One day, 'cause of you I'll be cryin' for a while I was standing in that alleyway Fallin' back to me I feel you back to me What really scares me What already saddens me How our shadows grew too alike

[Pre-Chorus: V] Twenty-four hours in the tub Twenty-four hours of your thought Z-z-z, don't wake me up If it's a dream, don't wake up my

[Chorus: Jung Kook, Jimin, RM] Fantasy It's a fantasy (Ayy, you next to me) It's a fantasy (Oh) You're my fantasy (Take that) Let's repeat it one more night (Ayy) Give me one more night Give me one more Fantasy, fantasy

[Verse 2: SUGA] Mood up there all day like cloud nine All day, walkin' it side by side These changes surprise me too A gift, just by existence A morning together with you (Morning) It's all understood without words (Understood) So instead of something grandiose Just stay right here next to me

[Pre-Chorus: Jimin] Twenty-four hours in the tub Twenty-four hours of your thought Z-z-z, don't wake me up If it's a dream, don't wake up my

[Chorus: Jung Kook, V, j-hope] Fantasy It's a fantasy (Ayy, you next to me) It's a fantasy (Oh) You're my fantasy (Take that) Let's repeat it one more night (One more night) Give me one more night (One more night) Give me one more Fantasy, fantasy

[Post-Chorus: Jin, j-hope, Jin & j-hope] One more night Fallin' Inescapably embroidered All the stars and you One more night Rollin' Can't snap out of such a bad mornin' A midsummer night's dream* (NB: The rest of the translations are more or less okay but this one stuck out too much so I made this adjustment, from 'moonlight' to 'dream')

[Bridge: j-hope] Selene, you resemble (Ayy) Stay beautiful as you were last night (Hey) By my side Break the darkness Yeah, yeah If I could see you just one more night Pass dawn's light Hit it, get it, do it again

[Pre-Chorus: Jin] Twenty-four hours in the tub Twenty-four hours of your thought Z-z-z, don't wake me up If it's a dream, don't wake up my

[Chorus: Jimin, Jung Kook, j-hope] Fantasy It's a fantasy (Ayy) It's a fantasy (Oh) You're my fantasy Let's repeat it one more night (One more night) Give me one more night (One more night) Give me one more Fantasy, fantasy

[Outro: Jin, RM, V, j-hope] Close your eyes, tell me what you see (Ain't nothin' but a dream, baby; One, one) Baby, I, baby, I give it to you all night (One, one, one, one) Every night is our fantasy (Ain't nothin' but a dream, baby; One, one) Baby, I, baby, I, give me, right at your time, yeah

*

Note, he said his lyrics are "like I love someone, that person could be a lover or even ARMY”. He continued to wax poetic about how "love is like a deep bittersweet sincerity”...

I have nothing much to say about One More Night as a song cause it's my least favourite song on the album. Joon's right that it's a mediocre track and personally I think it's the worst produced song on Arirang. In terms of lyrics though, it's a bit amusing watching Joon talk about it and try to explain why an admittedly mid song was added to the album. When he talks about who he's thinking about in the song, that "or even ARMY" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. On first listen, even after BTS have added their lyrics, the target of this song is not apparently ARMY or a group of fans or even an enduring platonic companion. On first listen it sounds intentionally targeted towards a lover because many of the song's original lyrics, such as spending 24 hours in the tub, giving it to bae all night, combined with the whole play on fantasy, makes this song about as explicitly sexual as Body to Body's original tone... potentially (we haven't heard the original BTB demo).

If I get any specific asks about Joon's live I'll try to answer them, but for now all I'll say is his live confirmed several things for me:

HYBE has for sure mapped out the chatter on social media and the guys have definitely heard a good chunk of the criticism.

Whatever their intentions with this album and comeback, there's an undeniable issue with execution and misalignment between what they wanted to convey and how it's been perceived more generally.

This is more of a personal observation, but he seemed more defensive than usual. Parts of his live sounded too much like cope, which, given the success they've attained despite everything on this tour you'd think he'd own it all with his endowed chest... Unless of course he himself suspects there's some truth to the chatter but isn't quite ready to examine it yet. Idk.

I guess we'll see.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

I'm surprised you like NCT. You're the first army I've seen who has said anything positive about SM music. I'm an SM stan and can't stand most armys tbh but I like some BTS songs and I like reading your blog bc of how you discuss your music takes in general. Been following you since 2023 but never seen you talk about SM music positively, did I just miss it? Have you talked about NCT before? Do you have a fav song or member? I don't mean to be accusatory or anything I was just kinda shook when I saw your comment about NCT and Hooligan (I agree with what you said btw it's def an NCT vibe song lol.)

***

Yeah I'm afraid you missed it.

Pretty sure I've talked about NCT positively before (and negatively too - it depends on the comeback). I'm certain I've talked about my biases too but to rehash, my favourite members are Ten (overall fave), and Mark, Taeyong, and Haechan (for skill and vocal delivery).

NCT is arguably the most ambitious boy group project out of SM and I think many times the group lived up to that ambition, even if the times they failed were spectacular fuck ups. Neo Culture Technology embodies the kind of chopped up, zany, indulgent hiphop that's peculiar to the Seoul nightclub scene, and I appreciate how SM has tried to push that concept into uncharted territory with NCT. Songs like Sticker are unfortunate examples of NCT missing the mark, but songs like Bambola by Ten are a 10/10 for hitting it perfectly.

I can't think of a favourite NCT song right now, I'm not even sure I have favourites exactly, just more songs I like than dislike. Overall, I enjoy BTS songs more thoroughly and more consistently than I do anything from NCT. Just saying.