Colin Morgan as John Stirling? Could it work?
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Colin Morgan as John Stirling? Could it work?
I can’t believe we spent the last ten years undoing internalized misogyny when it came to love triangles in media, only to have Bridgerton come and ruin that streak with Kate/Edwina/Anthony
I can’t agree enough with this. There is this article that talks about how this is a nod to Bollywood romances. What a load of crock! Such love triangles came under increasing criticism in Bollywood and movies that have scripts (sarcasm) actually avoid love triangles and look for other, more mature and relatable/realistic obstacles to a love story (class difference, ambition, growing up and discovering yourself), or attempt to actually tackle infidelity. Bridgerton’s supposed tribute to Bollywood infantilises the latter.
What do people make of Chris Van Dusen’s interview with TVLine where he said that Edwina wouldn’t attend Kate and Anthony’s wedding?
For me, it goes on to show that the showrunner really didn’t understand the characters and their motivations at all. Also goes on to show that there is nothing feminist about Edwina’s arc, and the writers have no concept of sisterhood. It’s horrible, especially because in the books, Kate and John/Michael are the only ones to have supportive and loving natal families that don’t need to be rescued by the Bridgertons. The Bridgertons continue to have great relationships with Sheffields and Stirlings in the books.
This whole process of isolating the woman from her natal family after marriage in the form of rescuing is ugly and deeply misogynistic. That actually renders the woman helpless in case her married home is abusive in any manner. And in case of the show, the whole thing was contrived. In the book, Kate’s father was the second son of a baton, so not necessarily the ton but not poverty stricken either. Expanding the gulf between Kate and Anthony to play up the India angle was foul.
I wonder if that’s why they haven’t had any promotion focussing only on SA and JB and CC has been thrust into all interviews that should have only focussed on JB and SA. I also wonder if that is why CC deleted her Twitter account because of the backlash against the triangle, and how much worse it would get once the season was out. The production team and CC probably realised that the criticism (and honestly the bullying) would get much worse given the story but it was too late to do anything about it.
It has struck me that the show ponders entirely too much on diamond of the first water, much to the detriment of the characters and diversity of women - any woman who is not or does not aspire to be the diamond is considered a rebel making it easier for women like Eloise to be considered ‘feminists’ for not caring about one aspirational standard while confirming to all the rest. This kind of reduction to binaries is precisely what is a recurring problem with white feminism and girlboss-ism that production houses, especially American ones, are guilty of espousing.
In the books, on the other hand, Edwina is the only diamond whose journey is shown while Francesca being a diamond is just mentioned. That way, women can have successful seasons without being diamonds and without being rebels. Even Daphne wasn’t a diamond. I am not going to comment on the historical accuracy of either the books or the show because that has never been the concern - neither for the author/producer or for the audience.
I think the reason the show has had to resort declaring a diamond every season to make Queen Charlotte relevant and that is just sad. From what I have noticed (and please correct me if I am wrong), most viewers (book readers and non-readers alike) aren’t particularly invested in QC and engaged with her only in short doses. In season 2, so much screen time devoted to the frivolity of QC in fact weakened the entire story. Which is saying something given that TVWLM is one of the tauter books.
If it were genuine about trying to be feminist, the Sharmas would have got equal screen space and character/background development as the Bridgertons. For heaven’s sake, we don’t even know Kate’s parents’ names! Lady Danbury wouldn’t have been such a convenient, almost-mammy character. QC would have been less frivolous. And we would have had conversations among women beyond husbands and Eloise shrieking about injustice in the world (those conversations only happened with Genevieve, similarly the gossip network in S1 challenging Berbrooke was great).
This problem will be far more acute when they come to Ben and Sophie’s story, especially in the #MeToo era. Here you basically have an upper class man propositioning a woman in his employ and emotionally manipulating her into a sexual relationship despite her lack of consent. It isn’t romantic, it is harassment. Sophie isn’t in a position to say no and Benedict pesters her. How do you adapt that for the screen for today’s audience?
Why is this important? Because the books are by no stretch imagination feminist or groundbreaking in any way. If anything, they have deeply patriarchal and misogynistic scenes that the show has tried to elide over (fair point) to make them more palatable to a 2020s audience. But as we acknowledge it, we mustn’t lose sight of the fact that the show is merely ‘performing’ feminism instead of espousing it. The problem with the show is it’s pretensions of being feminist and peddling stupidity in the name of feminism. When any of us watch a historical show, or even a fantasy-historical show, we suspend disbelief when we see genuine feminists because they are fully fleshed out characters with aims and motives, not mere pandering caricatures to check boxes.
Happy to engage on this!
yes to a lot of this. especially this bit:
If it were genuine about trying to be feminist, the Sharmas would have got equal screen space and character/background development as the Bridgertons. For heaven’s sake, we don’t even know Kate’s parents’ names! Lady Danbury wouldn’t have been such a convenient, almost-mammy character. QC would have been less frivolous. And we would have had conversations among women beyond husbands and Eloise shrieking about injustice in the world (those conversations only happened with Genevieve, similarly the gossip network in S1 challenging Berbrooke was great).
as much as the show tries to claim otherwise, edwina is shown to be very happy in playing the diamond role. only in ep 6 we see edwina struggle or even reconsider how much she actually enjoys this role in the next two episodes. this could hv been a meaningful character arc except in her very last scene we see QC suggest the Prince as a possible suitor. this might have just been a throwaway line, but it suggests that the show thinks the solution to edwina’s woes is for her to marry a Prince, a suitor with even higher rank. edwina’s entire problem is that she has been kept so sheltered & unprepared for reality. she has been sold a fantasy her whole life abt true love and princes that can all be achieved as long as she plays this role of the perfect debutante. if this show was serious abt edwina’s development or even feminism, they would hv allowed her to find out who edwina, the person is, underneath the diamond and the perfect debutante. except instead most of her interactions in the show until ep 6 either involve anthony or are abt anthony. instead the show suggest that her character arc ends with the reward of a prince instead of any kind of real reflection. we get to see benedict all sad abt art school & eloise’s relationship with theo and pen but we never really get to know the real edwina.
portia featherington is the only matriarch who has an arc beyond giving advice and talking abt their dead husbands. mary sharma and lady danbury are apparently old friends but we see lady d interact more with violet and kate. prudence featherington speaks more than mary it seems. why dont we get to see kate and mary’s relationship explored more like violet and anthony got. even the sharma-sheffield dinner becomes all abt anthony when it was the perfect opportunity to explore the sharma dynamics. this show fails all its female characters but especially it’s WOC.
i also feel like daphne and edwina’s genuine enjoyment at playing the diamond for the most part is another way for the show to avoid addressing woman’s lack of autonomy or the double standards for men and woman. the show only acknowledges with edwina how unfair it is that she must be a perfect well- accomplished debutante whereas a man like anthony only has to offer his wealth and title. the show never really explores the inner lives of these debutantes and beyond eloise making a few quips it never really explored the harsh standards that all these woman are subjected to. in fact with eloise little chat to the debutantes eloise almost makes it sound like it is their fault for not protesting harder with their Mamas instead of the way the society is. then there is the way this show makes a distinction between the woman who are worthy of happy ever afters and what kind is tossed aside for this lady (siena, delacroix, all the woman these men sleep with and the worst of all they are doing this with Marina).
you are right, if the show genuinely cared abt feminism, they would be better off actually developing their female characters and giving them actual arcs not centering men rather than hving eloise rant evertime she speaks.
Agree with most of it. On the point of who gets a happily ever after, the show exists in this upper class, utopian world where working class women, who have wrested their autonomy from the world, continuously face losing odds while the diamonds get the ultimate reward of aristocratic marriages. Another reward, such as financial stability outside of marriage, are not even imagined. Penelope’s LW is just a stunning mess. And as I said, this show is incapable of dealing with intersectional feminism, partly because it is race-blind and seeks to invisibilise class except when it is the the threat of falling into genteel poverty ( Featheringtons).
It has struck me that the show ponders entirely too much on diamond of the first water, much to the detriment of the characters and diversity of women - any woman who is not or does not aspire to be the diamond is considered a rebel making it easier for women like Eloise to be considered ‘feminists’ for not caring about one aspirational standard while confirming to all the rest. This kind of reduction to binaries is precisely what is a recurring problem with white feminism and girlboss-ism that production houses, especially American ones, are guilty of espousing.
In the books, on the other hand, Edwina is the only diamond whose journey is shown while Francesca being a diamond is just mentioned. That way, women can have successful seasons without being diamonds and without being rebels. Even Daphne wasn’t a diamond. I am not going to comment on the historical accuracy of either the books or the show because that has never been the concern - neither for the author/producer or for the audience.
I think the reason the show has had to resort declaring a diamond every season to make Queen Charlotte relevant and that is just sad. From what I have noticed (and please correct me if I am wrong), most viewers (book readers and non-readers alike) aren’t particularly invested in QC and engaged with her only in short doses. In season 2, so much screen time devoted to the frivolity of QC in fact weakened the entire story. Which is saying something given that TVWLM is one of the tauter books.
If it were genuine about trying to be feminist, the Sharmas would have got equal screen space and character/background development as the Bridgertons. For heaven’s sake, we don’t even know Kate’s parents’ names! Lady Danbury wouldn’t have been such a convenient, almost-mammy character. QC would have been less frivolous. And we would have had conversations among women beyond husbands and Eloise shrieking about injustice in the world (those conversations only happened with Genevieve, similarly the gossip network in S1 challenging Berbrooke was great).
This problem will be far more acute when they come to Ben and Sophie’s story, especially in the #MeToo era. Here you basically have an upper class man propositioning a woman in his employ and emotionally manipulating her into a sexual relationship despite her lack of consent. It isn’t romantic, it is harassment. Sophie isn’t in a position to say no and Benedict pesters her. How do you adapt that for the screen for today’s audience?
Why is this important? Because the books are by no stretch imagination feminist or groundbreaking in any way. If anything, they have deeply patriarchal and misogynistic scenes that the show has tried to elide over (fair point) to make them more palatable to a 2020s audience. But as we acknowledge it, we mustn’t lose sight of the fact that the show is merely ‘performing’ feminism instead of espousing it. The problem with the show is it’s pretensions of being feminist and peddling stupidity in the name of feminism. When any of us watch a historical show, or even a fantasy-historical show, we suspend disbelief when we see genuine feminists because they are fully fleshed out characters with aims and motives, not mere pandering caricatures to check boxes.
Happy to engage on this!
I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SHARE THIS PROBABLY NOT BUT THIS GOLD AND I JUS HAVE TO!!!!
🎥: @bridgertonnetflix
Why is this set to the instrumental version of Kabhi Khushi Khabhi Gham?!?!? I am dying 😂
Reading steamy scenes to the K3G title track is even more guffaw-inducing when you know that the track was played to show a mother’s/parents’ love for their children and vice versa!!!
For everybody who liked the yearning aspect of Bridgerton, give the Bollywood movie Veer Zaara a shot.
It stars Shah Rukh Khan, IMO India’s greatest romantic hero, and genuinely engages with gender relations, questions of religion and cross-border politics. It doesn’t always get the issues right (the movie is about 20 years old and mainstream commercial cinema through and through) but at least it tries.
If you have other recommendations, do tell me. It can be in any language and from any country.
Forgot about my gripe with Kate Sharma’s chai.
She just added unopened, uncrushed cardamom and cloves to the tea strainer, and passed hot water through it. Who’ll steep the spices in the water to actually flavour the tea, Ma’am? 🤦🏻♀️
Talk about tepid English version of chai.
I think I have figured it out. Show!Edwina reminds me of all versions of Lydia Bennett. And that’s tragic.
Few thoughts on season 2 of Bridgerton:
- The chemistry between Simone Ashley and Jonathan Bailey is crackling. The yearning is real. Better than Season 1. The focus of the season should have been on them.
- Mary and Edwina were grossly shortchanged. Most changes to the story in the adaptation work to its benefit but eroding the bond of Sharma women does not.
- lady Danbury was superfluous more often than not. Mary should have mothered and guided Kate, not Danbury.
- Kate’s background, including her fear of storms, merited equal screen time and space.
- the library scene was better in the book.
- the bee scene was better in the show. I am glad that their choices weren’t wrested from them through a ‘compromise’.
- The India angle was poorly done. Exoticisation of Kate (she hunts), horrible pronunciation and accent, repeated references to maharajahs, peacocks, medicine in India — the sceptre of India loomed large. The whole thing where the Sharmas are supposed to be Tamil because they call their father ‘appa’ and because of SA and CC’s own backgrounds, but their last name is one of the most common North Indian surnames and Edwina calls Kate ‘didi’, common in North India. And when Kate exclaims during the horse ride in episode 1, she exclaims in Hindi (‘baap re’). And it took me random browsing on Reddit to learn that Kate’s ‘bon’ was meant to be Bengali (I don’t know Bengali for what) and not a French endearment - pick a region. The haldi scene was grating. Why couldn’t the Sharmas have been from the UK itself?
- The Kris Bowers version of Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham gave me goosebumps. I couldn’t make it out in the show but when I heard it later, it’s good.
- Kate’s full name. What a pandering joke.
- Mary’s family’s financial impetus was ridiculous. Who was going to get that money? Was it supposed to be Edwina’s dowry? How would Kate have survived in India on her own? How could Lasy Danbury intercept Kate’s letters? Was there more family there? Would she have never met Edwina and Mary again?
- the discussion about dowries is important. I. The book, Anthony was the nicest man in England because he offered to provide Edwina with a dowry and that’s what truly turned things around for Kate. And here he threw it in Kate’s face.
- the book showed Anthony’s goodness to Kate. The show showed Anthony’s responsibilities to the audience but not to Kate. His goodness, so to say, was elided over in both seasons. In all the books, Anthony offers his family (and all in laws) all the possible support and encouragement. Here he is too one dimensional in his angst. There was a chance to improve upon the book Anthony.
- I wanted to see the little moments between just Anthony and Kate where they didn’t fight or weren’t surrounded by family. Just being together.
- The accident here was better than in the book.
- I am glad that they got rid of the study scene. That was the low point of the book.
- They paid the price for Edwina’s character with unnecessary high drama with the engagement nonsense. It went too far. The fun thing about the book was that Edwina could see all of it and never took Anthony seriously. for instance, in the show, when Edwina says ‘was I truly that blind’, it could have been so good if it was a post KxA engagement scene. It was a trope that served to show the pressures on her to marry well and how the Sharma women would rather be happy and firmly middle class than rich and unhappy.
- Queen Charlotte was entirely too frivolous. I don’t know how they will engender enough interests in the prequel. She was too annoying.
- the Featheringtons’ story line was too boring and dragged on a fair bit.
- Lady Whistledown - the character is deeply unlikeable, both as PF and as LW. It works well with respect to introducing Theo Sharpe and that could have been fleshed out better.
- Mondrich - too unnecessary. This is not a Downton Abbey or an Upstairs Downstairs. It doesn’t have the chips to deal with race and class issues in any meaningful way. It can barely deal with superficial white feminism, any kind of intersectionalism is beyond it.
- it needed more interaction between Bridgertons, Sharmas and the two families. That’s where the show shone, apart from KxA scenes of course. Both comic and emotional scenes. The scenes between Kate and Edwina could have only been improved with Mary’s addition. Think Gregory crushing on Kate, Colin (or show!Benedict) actually interacting with Kate and being meddlesome, Mary and Violet bonding being being widows (as if there is nothing to them being being widows and mothers), Edwina and Eloise getting close together, the pea scene with ABC.
- the show undoubtedly has all the yearning and the anger but part of what makes Kate and Anthony interesting is the humour and aimless banter - think thicker boots, menace, more Newton scenes, that was missing.
- Colin visiting Marina was an interesting development. Hope this means that Marina is not killed/written off to make way for Eloise’s HEA and that the latter can lead an unconventional life.
- the last scene should have included Mary and Edwina. Lady Danbury was unnecessary.
I hope they build on Kate and Anthony’s married life in future seasons.
bin means sister by the way
Is it like behen? How is it actually supposed to be pronounced?
Is it just me or did it seem that Lady Danbury never had the Sharma sisters best interests at heart in the show? She was happy to have her wards be used as pawns by the Queen, or in her own machinations with Violet.
It made Mary’s absence all the more obvious.
Molly!! What are you main thoughts on the season?? Other than incoherently screaming about how amazing Jonny and Simone were??
Okay, OKAY
I don't even have time to get into the fact that I was not prepared for this season. I wasn't. I'm still so-
I can barely put my thoughts into order and if you wanna know how rough it was to have to put up with my unbridled thoughts @jeanvanjer and I did our first watch together and... She had to put up with a lot
I'm considering doing episode by episode videos if anyone wants to see that
I agree with most of it but not her take on Edwina. I think part of it is also because of how you have fleshed out the beautiful relationship between the Sharma women in your AUs.
E calling K her half-sister could have very easily broken the relationship — there are certain lined you do not cross. Teasing siblings about being adopted works only in two scenarios: when they are not in fact adopted and they very well know it; or when it is done as a joke (and that too in very, very limited situations).
What E did was callous and mean-spirited. Had she referred to it in a joke or a light-hearted situation where K was in on the joke, it would be different. But E sought to hurt. That was what was so unfathomable to me. Mary too seemed to side with E at that moment and K would of course then feel like an orphan that she was. There were enough hints preceding that scene showing that Kate felt as if she didn’t belong with E and M, and the conversation between K and M about love not being owed should have come much earlier.
Does anyone else think that prior to Bridgerton S2, N*cola C*ughlan was overexposed to the point of being annoying? And they oversold her in the show?
Few thoughts on season 2 of Bridgerton (under the cut):
- The chemistry between Simone Ashley and Jonathan Bailey is crackling. The yearning is real. Better than Season 1. The focus of the season should have been on them.
- Mary and Edwina were grossly shortchanged. Most changes to the story in the adaptation work to its benefit but eroding the bond of Sharma women does not.
- Lady Danbury was superfluous more often than not, at best, and ill-intentioned at worst. Mary should have mothered and guided Kate, not Danbury.
- Kate’s background, including her fear of storms, merited equal screen time and space.
- The library scene was better in the book.
- The bee scene was better in the show. I am glad that their choices weren’t wrested from them through a ‘compromise’.
- The India angle was poorly done. Exoticisation of Kate (she hunts), horrible pronunciation and accent, repeated references to maharajahs, peacocks, medicine in India — the sceptre of India loomed large. The whole thing where the Sharmas are supposed to be Tamil because they call their father ‘appa’ and because of SA and CC’s own backgrounds, but their last name is one of the most common North Indian surnames and Edwina calls Kate ‘didi’, common in North India. And when Kate exclaims during the horse ride in episode 1, she exclaims in Hindi (‘baap re’). And it took me random browsing on Reddit to learn that Kate’s ‘bon’ was meant to be Bengali (I don’t know Bengali for what) and not a French endearment - pick a region. The haldi scene was grating. Why couldn’t the Sharmas have been from the UK itself?
- And Edwina’s pronunciation of Ghalib 🤦🏻♀️ Also, in 1814, Ghalib would have been just 17. Although he started writing at the age of 11 (1808), it is only in the 1840s that his first book of poetry would be published. And given that the Sharma sisters were brought up in Bombay/Mumbai and Ghalib was engaging in court poetry in Delhi in 1810s, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that the Sharmas would have engaged with his work in any significant manner. And to expect Anthony, a peer in England to have heard of him at that time, is preposterous on the part of Edwina.
- The Kris Bowers version of Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham gave me goosebumps. I couldn’t make it out in the show but when I heard it later, it’s good.
- Kate’s full name. What a pandering joke.
- Mary’s family’s financial impetus was ridiculous. Who was going to get that money? Was it supposed to be Edwina’s dowry? How would Kate have survived in India on her own? How could Lasy Danbury intercept Kate’s letters? Was there more family there? Would she have never met Edwina and Mary again?
- The discussion about dowries is important. In he book, Anthony was the nicest man in England because he offered to provide Edwina with a dowry and that’s what truly turned things around for Kate. And here he threw it in Kate’s face.
- The book showed Anthony’s goodness to Kate (interactions at Aubrey Hall with Hyacinth and Gregory, stepping in to cut Cressida from bullying Penelope). The show showed Anthony’s responsibilities to the audience but not to Kate. His goodness, so to say, was elided over in both seasons (in Duke and I as well, he actually intercedes to protect Daphne from Berbrooke’s unwanted attentions, encourages all his siblings). In all the books, Anthony offers his family (and all in laws) all the possible support and encouragement. Here he is too one dimensional in his angst. There was a chance to improve upon the book Anthony.
- I wanted to see the little moments between just Anthony and Kate where they didn’t fight or weren’t surrounded by family. Just being together, learning about each other, being vulnerable in front of each other and together.
- The accident here was better than in the book.
- I am glad that they got rid of the study scene. That was the lowest point of the book.
- They paid the price for Edwina’s character with unnecessary high drama with the engagement nonsense. It went too far. The fun thing about the book was that Edwina could see all of it and never took Anthony seriously. For instance, in the show, when Edwina says ‘was I truly that blind’, it could have been so good if it was a post KxA engagement scene. It was a trope that served to show the pressures on her to marry well and how the Sharma women would rather be happy and firmly middle class than rich and unhappy.
- Queen Charlotte was entirely too frivolous. I don’t know how they will engender enough interests in the prequel. She was too annoying and interfering. If this is supposed to be a comment on the irrelevance of present day British Royal Family, a romance show wasn’t the best way to go about it. And as I have said elsewhere, the writers of this show seem to be incapable of dealing with realities of the world competently.
- The Featheringtons’ story line was too boring and dragged on.
- Lady Whistledown - the character is deeply unlikeable, both as PF and as LW. It works well with respect to introducing Theo Sharpe and that could have been fleshed out better.
- Mondrich - too unnecessary. This is not a Downton Abbey or an Upstairs Downstairs. It doesn’t have the chops to deal with race and class issues in any meaningful way. It can barely deal with superficial white feminism, any kind of intersectionalism is beyond it.
- Interactions between Eloise and Theo broke the tedium of Featheringtons and the Queen, but they were too superficial. Have they actually discuss these ‘radical’ ideas.
- It needed more interaction between Bridgertons, Sharmas and the two families. That’s where the show shone, apart from KxA scenes of course. Both comic and emotional scenes. The scenes between Kate and Edwina could have only been improved with Mary’s addition. Think Gregory crushing on Kate, Colin (or show!Benedict) actually interacting with Kate and being meddlesome, Mary and Violet bonding beyond being widows (as if there is nothing to them being being widows and mothers), Edwina and Eloise getting close together, the pea/olive scene with ABC.
- The show undoubtedly has all the yearning and the angst but part of what makes Kate and Anthony interesting is the humour and aimless banter - think thicker boots, menace, more Newton scenes - that was missing.
- Colin visiting Marina was an interesting development. Hope this means that Marina is not killed/written off to make way for Eloise’s HEA and that the latter can lead an unconventional life.
- The last scene should have included Mary and Edwina. Lady Danbury was unnecessary.
I hope they build on Kate and Anthony’s married life in future seasons without cutting out Mary and Edwina. That’s one of the nice parts of the Bridgerton books, especially Books 2 and 6 (the only ones with ‘good’ in laws) - the Bridgertons interact with and remain in touch with the in laws. The married ins don’t appear ex nihilism but Kate and the Stirlings are the only married-ins who don’t continue to exist within a Bridgerton vacuum.
In Bridgerton Season 2, I personally think Kal Ho Na Ho title track would have been a better fit than Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham. In KHNH, which literally means ‘there may not be a tomorrow’, the male voice (denoting the male protagonist) is literally saying carpe diem when it comes to live. Even better, the movie itself is about the lead (Shah Rukh Khan) having terminal cancer which is why he doesn’t want to confess his love for the other lead (Preity Zinta) and wants her to think that she doesn’t live her so that she can be with a man (Saif Ali Khan) who does. But PZ discovers the truth after her engagement to SAK and it’s major drama.
If that doesn’t scream Anthony Bridgerton, what does?
Also, the KHNH title track — both the melody and the lyrics — are amongst the best to come from Bollywood.
Kabhi Khushi Kabhi Gham is more ‘we are all a family’ and ‘parents are gods’ than romance.
I LOVE YOUR BRIDGERTON ARTICLES!!! how many more can we expect??
Oh, that's one secret I'll never tell...
Just kidding! There are a few more coming VERY soon. And then I have some up my sleeve for when it gets closer to the premiere.
And thank you for loving them. I work really hard on them.
How about Gugu Mbatha-Raw or Gemma Chan as Kate Sheffield? If it is former, how about Hannah John Kamen as Edwina?