All the AI hype recently got me thinking... about the canned R.O.B.O.T. project of the GDF. Yeah, they were unable to prioritize etc, but... The Tracies HAVE and actual AI. Of course it's too much and too soon, and too unpredictable to replicate Eos, but John and Brains (and Eos) could have maybe helped perfect ROBOTS programming A BIT? The idea was not all bad. And 5 Tracies + Kayo cannot make up for the amount of rescues ROBOTS could do simultaneously (maybe assisting the local rescue services, who would manage decision making). I just wish more came of it than a completely scrapped project (that probably cost lots of wasted money and person hours).
@riallasheng I LOVE that idea! Which brings us back to a point discussed some time before - how much of IR was originally a GDF collab project in TAG. It makes me wonder how things would have been, had Lee stuck around (and not exiled himself to the Moon in grief).
@riallasheng The suicide run of rescues is, it appears, as recent as Dad going poof and is mostly Scott's NON-coping mechanism with grief. Maybe it was exacerbated by the Hood's reappearance. Recharge episode lampshaded the problem at its core, but it didn't seem like any drastic changes were made in their roster or routine. Scott did invite Lee back in as an extra set of hands on deck, but that didn't pan out. It is unclear for how long IR was operating with boys on the roster after Dad. Given they're aged down in TAG, I'd assume either only Scott was fully an IR operative under Dad, or Virgil and John were in training. Gordon and Alan (and Kayo) would have been too young. So there was probably a halt in operations for some time for the transition period and training (and grief). In Season 1 it certainly looked like Scott was still finding his Commander legs and GDF were still weary Jeff's kids were running the show.
Apologies for the delay, had to cook then consume dinner XD (also took 6 tries but I GOT A REBLOG TO WORK!! )
Given the ages, I have a feeling that Scott was the only one 'active' when Jeff was still around, likely working alongside Jeff, Lee and Kyrano. Virgil and John were likely close to completing training (Kayo too if you put her around the age of those two, which honestly I do as she seems older. I plunk her inbetween John and Virgil)
Gordon and ABSOLUTELY Alan weren't active yet, indeed I'd doubt either had even begun training yet.
When Jeff died, we know Kyrano left at about the same time (I'd bet under 6 months the way the dialogue treats it). Lee seems to have stuck around longer, but he probably left within one or two years as well. iR likely shut down for a few years (call it 3 or so), if only so John and Virgil could get fully trained.
You know it's odd. Scott gets called out on the suicide run, but NO ONE ELSE IS, and they are all absolutely equally responsible for the current 'every call no matter how minor/multiple calls a day'. Hell, Scott technically isn't the commander, SALLY is, and we see her pushing for the 'every rescue, no matter what' in more than one episode (which includes rescuing the Hood and letting the world potentially have all tech destroyed to save one person) (I dunno, I just found it a bit off putting that Scott gets called out on it, but no one else is... and the hypocrisy might be why nothing really changes after)
But yeah given the GDF reactions and the way that in S1 people don't seem to know iR as well as they do in later seasons, we could argue that the current suicide run is RECENT. Like started just 'this year' recent... and it might be a case of it's been ramping up slowly, and it's Alan joining the ranks (at 16 because CHILD LABOR LAWS ARE A THING DANG IT) is oddly what ended up being the straw on the camels back as it were. Now John can focus ONLY on calls (and Scott only on 1s rescues), because they've got someone to take up 3s. Combine that with Sally's apparent 'every call no matter how small' and Scott's frantic desire to make up for failing to save his dad by saving everyone else (and Virgil's, I remember his lines from the opening of the pilot)
I do suspect that iR likely WAS working alongside the GDF when Jeff was around (him being called Colonel, the GDF presence in the Zero X disaster, even how they interact in the modern day), and I could totally see him working with the GDF to come up with the CONCEPT of the ROBOT. Heck, we don't even know if the Thunderbirds were actually BUILT or ACTIVE when Jeff vanished. One likely was, but we've no idea for the others.
I could see Col Casey looking at the last few months, realizing that iR had started a suicide run, and after attempts to get them to go back tot he 'only what no one else can do' failed, put a heavy focus on getting the ROBOTs up and running (Maybe working with Moffat? She does suddenly show up seemingly working FOR the GDF in the fuel episode, and the aesthetically they do match Moffat's work)
@riallasheng Oh, lots of goodies to unpack! It's 1 am in my zip code, so I may follow up a bit more later. I actually chalk a lot up to Sally NOT coping well with Jeff going poof (she's human and not infallible, very believable). I definitely chalk that up to her kinda not dealing at all with the fact that Scott was very obviously suicidal(ish)/crippled with guilt. Virgil is very good at Scott wrangling, but it probably was not Virgil's job to have THAT conversation with his brother. Scott is Jeff 2.0. Whereas Virgil reminding Sally of Grant keeps her husband "alive", kinda, Scott being an uncanny copy of Jeff is a breathing reminder her son is gone. And yes, I also take issue with Sally having more heart to hearts and pep talks with Kayo and Brains than with two grandsons displaying self-destructive tendencies (Scott and John). An unpopular opinion, probably, but still.
Scott's guilt around Jeff's demise likely puts him in the IR original roster. He also happens to have a very different experience of Jeff's workaholism (maybe due to more exposure to CEO Dad and IR Commander Dad). Virgil recalls Jeff running training drills for the sons - but that could be part of mock training or keeping them fit/burning energy, or Dad's paranoia, not necessarily actual IR training (unless Dad made it clear very, very early on in their lives they were not exactly expected to pursue any other avenues- which is also an option).
I'd say the Hood resurfacing triggered A LOT of dormant grief and self-destructive leanings.
Lee confuses me. He seemingly slipped right BACK into GDF after Jeff's disappearance. Or maybe he never left the ranks, which plays into the idea IR was a GDF ordained gig more so than not. Heck, we don't even know if Jeff retired from GDF at any point. The Calypso crew were not surprised to see "him". TV-21 labeled him as Colonel. Casey addressed him as Colonel on Zero-X. However, Thunderbirds base is still a private island/home and a private mainland compound (Gran Roca).
It occurred to me, that Casey was a Captain when Zero-X exploded. Maybe the resuming of IR operations in the format "comfortable"/acceptable for the boys was possible once she climbed the ranks and could supervise, but not before? (I have a LOT of ideas on how multiple star generals would have treated the substitution of a Legendary Jeff Tracy for his barely legal age flyboy pup at the helm and a brood of even younger CIVILLIAN puppies in tow).
Oh, I stand by the idea they let Alan up in TB3 at fourteen- precisely because it's so hilariously outrageous.
(grrrrrr. 4 tries but I finally got it to reblog)
Huh, that puts you in... ... Nope, can't remember, too long a day XD
Yeah, likely a lot of Sally's behavior is due to her own lack of coping (Not helped by the fact that Scott, esp in TaG, looks SO MUCH like Jeff I'd bet. I actually can't remember her having a heart to heart with Scott, although she does have one version or another with most everyone else - even if it is supporting questionable ideals like what we see in the Blackout episode. Noble, but not really for the best at times. (Not gonna get any arguments from me on this, heck I agree, but then I ended up not liking Sally all that much ^^;; Totally fine that others like or love her, just not me is all ^^)
Yeah it's pretty clear that Scott was ON ROSTER by the time Jeff vanished. Lee seems to confirm this given how he obviously KNOWS Scott and has worked with him prior (even if he seems to have the same name recall/retention issues I have IRL) I tend to think Virgil and John had started training, but were not yet active members (or at least not fully active). I don't think Gordon or Kayo had even started training, given we never see either of them mentioning drills or training like Virgil did.
They seem to be on at least the start of a suicide run even in the pilot, but I have a feeling that the Hood was what tipped it over into a true suicide run. To be honest NO ONE in the show is exhibiting good coping methods, all of them are throwing themselves into rescues to the exclusion of all else, just to different degrees. Scott and Sally seem to be the worst, with John and Virgil a VERY close second (and argubly John is tied with Scott). Gordon, Kayo, and Alan overall are not in a GREAT place, but they're coping better and most of their drive seems more like a 'keep up' then 'punish myself'. Brains seems almost unaffected by it all (not helped by how heavily limited his interactions with the Tracys are since he now itneracts so much with Max)
honestly, Lee (and the fact that Jeff is consistantly referred to as Colonel) is why I assumed that in TaGverse iR was borderline a GDF 'branch' rather than independent. I think that the THUNDERBIRDS were a secret / under construction and Jeff was planning on leaving the GDF to strike it out solo when it all went to hell - which explains the ranch and the island (and the remenants of operation cover up) Lee likely stayed in the GDF for a few years, worked alongside Scott, John, and Virgil (who all seem to know him fairly well, and he recognizes them unlike the others) before leaving when Gordon started up or the like. I also wonder if Sally perhaps drove him away (conciously or subconciously)... anger that Lee didn't save Jeff / wasn't there beside him, etc (and I wonder if Sally subconciously is angry at Scott for the same, it would explain some things)
I think when Jeff 'died', iR basically shut down. Scott and Lee weren't enough, Casey wasn't high enough in the ranks to basically take over Jeff's duties (she goes from an of3 to an of5), Kyrano apparently yoloed out almost immediately, and the others would be too young to help really (and I honestly doubt that any of the Tbirds were completed/active yet, outside of possibly one). So there likely was a 'dead' spell with no iR at all for 3-5 years. This might be when Scott served in the GDF rather than earlier - him serving AFTER his dad died out of a sense of guilt / to keep the GDF off hsi families back would explain some of the oddities in his interactions with them (and the fact that Scott in TaG doesn't SEEM to have been a military guy, or at least not WILLINGLY one.
...actually thinking on it, Scott serving a 4 year term in the GDF while waiting on 1) Brains completing the Thunderbirds 2) John, Virgil, and Gordon to complete their training 3) Casey to get high enough in the ranks to really have some impact 4) Kayo to return from where-ever SHE went (because the pilot really makes it feel like Kayo only RECENTLY returned/joined up, given how uncertain Alan is around her, her not having Shadow, and the weirdly overstated 'FAMILY' scenes does work VERY well and explains quite a few of the oddities in GDF / iR interactions, and Scott's own behavior, and Scott would have been too young to have joined and served PRIOR to Jeff's death (as he would ahve been only 19 when Jeff 'died', and it's fairly obvious Scott was part of iR, thus could not be Serving (Heck, Bereznik happening during those 4 years ALSO would explain a lot). Sally making the call to have iR's identity known when they actually start up (say 5 years after Jeff is lost) even though that means that people know where they are, who has this tech, and who to call directly for rescues fits with what we see of Sally's actions (well inintentioned, noble, but not necessarily healthy). So iR would have been 'up and running' for about 2 years, more or less, when the pilot happens (as the '8 years' isn't said till season 2 if I recall correctly). That gives Gordon the 2ish years of experience he seems to have as well
Bleh! BLEH I SAY on Alan being 14!! XD (I hope it is obvious I jest, ^^;; While I do actively dislike the idea of Alan being 14... end of the day it's fiction and not something I'm going to get snarly about, simply hrmph over XD )
@riallasheng That puts me in Ukraine (and it's an air strike alarm so sleep is a wonky concept). I'm literally bouncing with ALL THE HARD AGREES on facts and characters!
No, Sally doesn't have heart to hearts with Scott. The one attempt is in Relic and it's... awkward at best (essentially, lovingly rubbing Scott's face into the fact that he's not and never will be pursuing any dreams or adventures of his own, like his Dad did, but is forever shackled to legacy and obligations imposed by Dad, who had pursued the life he wanted more or less the way he wanted). Oh yeah, and that one time Grandma squeezed his shoulder when Scott was visibly falling apart over TV-21. Yeah, I'd agree - there's probably a lot of unprocessed baggage around the fact Scott is SO MUCH like Jeff and is taking over his roles and functions in most meaningful ways. I also have a half-formed headcanon on Sally being low-key resentful of the boys' mother. Not hostile. But her Golden Son "switched allegiance" and loved that woman to the point of having 5 kids. Sally is very much a High Priestess at the Temple of her son's legacy (something I saw in real life with my own paternal Grandma). Realistically, with Jeff away a lot, space cowboying, Scott would have been close with Mom, helping with the brothers. And John seemed attuned to Mom's legacy at Gran Roca. Virgil is considered to take after Mom's artistic streak, but he's only ever "appointed" Grandpa 2.0 out loud. And DON'T get me started on the need-to-know about Kayo.
Yep, the Pilot is definitely the first glimpse of "Dad sacrificed himself for the world so there's nothing less to be done in my book than to sacrifice oneself for a sizable city" attitude we'll see more of through s1. Whether that was triggered by the Hood or had been happening before is anyone's guess. But Virgil is HORRIFIED in the Pilot that Scott is going to martyr himself in earnest, and by Recharge he's still fairly bewildered. So either IR hadn't been operational for long or that particular destructive spiral was new. Scott says that "keeping busy with IR is the only thing keeping him from going crazy" - so that mindset is at least as old as Dad going poof. I blame the wonky timeline - in s1 Jeff's disappearance seemed a lot "newer" as compared to "almost 8 years" of s3.
All the boys are definitely NOT coping well (exhibit A being, oddly enough, they all actually being full time Thunderbirds under 20, 25 and 30 respectively). But I'd say Scott and John exhibit alarming self-destructive tendencies (albeit, arguably, informed by different aspects of trauma and different points on the scale of abandonment issues). Virgil's, Gordon's (and partly Alan’s and Kayo's) issues seem to reside more along the line of confidence and "making Dad proud". They're selfless, but not actively self-destructive.
The reverse timeline of Scott's elusive possible stint in the GDF is REVOLUTIONARY and mind blowing! What if the Big Wigs outright refused to deal with Jeff's son at the helm if he were a civilian? Maybe they pushed to take IR away from the Tracies control completely?
I WILL follow up more coherently in the morning in this here parts, when I'm thinking straighter.
Insomnia strikes again (why am I not surprised), which has drawn me into this in depth discussion.
And can I say ...
Thank you, thank you, thank you, to one particular point made.
Sally and the mention of 'the boys mother' in Gran Roca. I found that one thing rather odd. There didn't seem to be any pride, or she would have said her daughter in laws name.
Or maybe that was just me.
Oh sure, she was fiercely matriarchal throughout ... and I've lost the thread of what I was saying. Sorry about that. Poor attention span as well as a little sleep deprivation (getting old sucks)
But thanks again for these great pointers. Yes, it's fiction and centred towards kids. But if you delve deeper, there's a lot more going on
^_^ I'm... sorry to have been the cause of insomnia? ^^;;
(Ah, Ukraine. I'm sorry to hear about the sirens, I hope things are as safe as possible for you. *sends hugs*)
and yeah, I noticed that too. Sally doesn't say Lucille's name at Gran Roca, and her interactions with Scott are ODD (as you mentioned prior, where she almost seemed to rub the fact that Jeff had gotten to life his dreams and make his own choices where Scott was shackled to choices not fully his own is... off putting. Her keeping Kayo's secret honestly and apparently encouring it to be kept also kinda bugs me, as that nearly led to ruin.
It reminds me of my Great-great-aunt. She DESPISED my Nana as the choice for her only son, even more so that she had the utter gall to have 5 children with the man, and then the man had the UTTER GALL to die when my dad was 16 (and the youngest sibling was 6). My Great-Great Aunt attempted to sweep in to 'help' and apparently never really was much help, putting herself as the matriach of the family and 'the first law and final law'... and seeing too much of my Grandda in my Dad, hating that my Dad had basically already stepped up and stepped in to take on teh 'father' role, etc. She was never abusive, but she was... distant and tended to lather praise onto the others while ignoring my Dad even when he was at his lowest. She moved out after a few years, but never really accepted my Nana (and hated that Nana basically became EVERYONE'S "Nana" and the matriarch of our stupidly massive family)
Now I really want to see if I can toss a timeline together.... hmmm
Give me half a tic or three, and I shall add to this post
Just need to do th' typin schtuff
XD
Okay, timeline schtuff
2050:
Jeff, Casey, Kyrano, and Lee manage to convince the GDF to fund / create a branch of the GDF focused on rescue (essentially an international 'Coast Gaurd') The unit is very small. The only commanding officers are Jeff, Lee and Casey, they have less than 20 personnel assigned to them. The TV21 is built here, designed by Brains, but built / funded by the GDF (explaining why it's so different from the Thunderbirds, up to and including why it's got the pilot rank and name on it) Scott (currently 18) is already on Jeff's short list for this unit and has started a intense training program for it. Scott is aggressively pushing for iR to go independent as soon as possible, not liking the restrictions and implications of it being a branch of the GDF. Jeff agrees with Scott, Lee is neutral on it, and while Casey is against it, she is willing to go along with it, with the rough plan being for her to stay in the GDF to function as a liason. For the moment, the plan is to keep the base's location secret (hence the later remnants of Operation Cover Up)
2051:
If you want max angst (by having the GDF plan that was weirdly close to the Zero X and thus was likely Jeff's ride to said space ship being SCOTT as the pilot....) let's say that Scott joins the GDF HERE, on his 19th birthday (so 2051 April 4th) unwilling but as of right now this is the only way that he can be part of iR, which is currently a 'branch' of the GDF, helmed by Jeff (a Colonel) with Lee and Casey being his primary personnel. (you have to be 19 to go for officer) Scott is rushed through training (bordering on skipping it). Jeff has Brains building the Thunderbirds and is planning on breaking away from the GDF to go independent, but as of right now to be part of iR you have to be part of the GDF. On top of bristling at it due to basically being forced into it, TaG Scott borders on a pacifist and rankles at being in the military at all, and he also has to deal with dislike (if not hatred) from GDF personnel due to how he basically skipped basic AND Academy to become an officer seemingly without earning it. The one thing that gets him through it is that he knows it'll only be for a short period of time, just until Brains finishes the Thunderbirds and iR goes independent... but...
2052:
Zero X incident / Jeff's 'death' (Let's put it as 2052 Feb 22nd, the day Long Reach 2 aired). going off the 'Scott just joined' that means that Scott quite likely is one of the pilots recording the incident and might even have been the pilot that got Jeff to / onto the Zero X and was flying alongside as backup.
Scott is 19, he'll be turning 20 in just over a month. Lee and Casey talk about Jeff as if he were the same age they are, rather than markedly older, so the 3 were probably born sometime ~2010, which means TaG Jeff can share the same birth year as TOS Jeff of 2009 Jan 2nd. Let's put Lee at 2009 Nov 7th (his ep intro) and Casey at 2009 Apr 12 (RoF2 air date, her first ep intro) This puts Jeff, Lee, and Casey (and Kyrano) at 43 at the time of the events. Virgil is 17, Kayo is 16 (I put her inbetween Virg and John) John is 15, Gordon is JUST, like eight DAYS 12, Alan is 9 but only a week or so from 10. There is no way that any of the others are on the Roster yet, although Virgil at minimum would have started training.
The GDF essentially shuts iR down 'until matters are sorted'... teh GDF commanders basically consider it to have been a massive money and personnel (and PR) sink, but at the same time they don't want to lose control of iR (or more exactly, Brains and his tech) so they basically dangle the iR branch being reinstated as both carrot and stick Lee is reassigned to Alpha Base on the Moon, Casey is assigned to a ground unit in the ever escalating situation in East Europe. Kyrano randomly yolos out of there, going AWOL, getting a dishonorable discharge and basically vanishing without a word. Scott is assigned to an air combat unit in the same area. It's made clear that the GDF will insist the other Tracys to join/serve, which all three are determined to prevent. On top of the fact that Virgil and John have the wrong mentality to serve, the four had already solidfied their call that they were going to break away from the GDF just days before the Zero X. So now the three, and it falls MOSTLY on Scott, are basically buying time for Brains to get the Thunderbirds complete and Virgil and John to finish their training (and for Scott to finish his 4 years of service so he can leave).
2056:
Scott, now 24 leaves the GDF. If you want the Bereznik incident, that would be what leads to his leaving the GDF. The Thunderbirds are almost complete, Virgil (22) and John(20) have completed training as well as finishing their schooling for engineering/medicine/communications/whathave you and Gordon(16) is nearing the end of his training. Unlike Virgil and John, he hasn't gone for extra schooling or another career (basing this off the show and what it implies. For example tagGordon almost certainly has no military service given that WASP canonically doesn't exist in the TaGverse and unlike tosGordon tagGordon NEVER acts like he has military experience) Tehre is a delay of several months between Scott leaving the GDF and iR starting. The TBs need to be completed, Scott wants the GDF to lose interest in the Tracys, Scott and Sally are likely still ahving SEVERE arguments about iR and if it should remain a secret like Jeff planned or if they should go public (and if ya like, Scott is still recovering from VICIOUS PTSD after being a POW in Bereznik). Lee still has 3 years before he'll finish up his current 4 years and is fighting to try and keep Alpha Base from being decommissioned. Casey elects to stay in the GDF, having been promoted to Colonel and wanting to act as liason as was the original plan.
2057:
late September (as a tip of the hat to TOS), iR begins operations. Sally, who has placed herself as commander (which is canon so far as I can tell, given Scott and John defer to her on mission assignments and communications), makes the call to go public off the bat. At least initially, iR is following TOS set up, only handling rescues no one else can do, rescues thus occuring at most once a week and twice a month being more common.
2058-59:
Things begin to ramp up, pushed by Sally, Scott and John. It's overall a slow build, but it's definitly happening. Lee fails in stopping Alpha Base from beind decommissioned, but ends up staying at the base, determined to keep it up and running, losing communication with basically the entire outside world. (Kyrano is still WHO KNOWS THE FUCK where, but after over 5 years, the Tracys ahve basically given up trying to find him)
2052:
late 2059, Tanusha suddenly reappears and joins iR, calling herself Kayo with obvious military training and a past she won't talk about. (Honestly, I headcanon her missing years were here working for the Hood before realizing what he was and leaving).
2060:
S1 (let's say the pilot takes place 2060 April 4th... so on Scott's 28th birthday, wow crap bday, poor Scooter)
@riallasheng can't reply - will quote-reblog:
"...Also THERE is a horrifying new angle to the TV21
If we go with 'GDF branch at first' and 'GDF built/paid for the TV21'....
then not only did Scott lose Dad's ship, he also lost a chance to get back ONE THING of his dad's that the GDF had 'stolen' just as much as the Hood had
ouch"
Yep... The GDF maybe could have looked for TV-21 harder, but didn't. Maybe they could have looked for Jeff harder after Zero-X... but didn't... (Seriously, why did the Hood's escape capsule come up only 8 years later, how did the Hood effin escape from it at the bottom of the ocean?). That would explain why Zero-XL was built exclusively on their own dime and recognizance.
Actually, it kinda makes sense Jeff would piggy back a SOS signal on a GDF deep space ship (besides there being not many ships passing by the Oort Cloud) - he knew the signal WOULD be picked up by the intended recipient - GDF run IR (Lee and Casey at least). Otherwise... how was he to know the Calypso would nicely pass an encrypted signal from deep space to his sons whom he left behind in late to mid teens? Maybe he thought Brains was still in GDF employ?
The money angle fascinates me. Because Jeff apparently floundered for funding - the Hood, GDF (pretty extreme opposites). Was he at a loss after Wife died? The island and villa were already in place by the time of Zero-X- Jeff drew it as home sweet home. So the money was at least somewhat there (unless they sold the Tracy farm really, really well).
Yeah the TV21 honestly wasn't THAT hard to find, it's weird that it went undiscovered as long as it did.
With the escape capsule, my assumption was that the Hood got out of it and then let it sink ot he bottom of the ocean to hide any evidence / fake his death.
Jeff thinking that iR would still be a GDF branch does explain why and how he sent the signal the way he did. Had iR been in the GDF still, they likely would have recieved the signal faster and with more ease, compared to the disaster it ended up being.
It is possible that he didn't so much flounder for funding as he did just trust where he should not have The Hood could have been a co founder of the company, the one who always 'found the funds' for the ideas Jeff came up with, with the wife being the smart investor who could turn a penny into a hundred dollar bill.
Oh, absolutely, TV-21 spent up LOTS of social capital and reputation. It was to be a prototype. Even though they knew the malfunction was sabotage- they still went Mach -2 with TB1. And the next TV-21 type prototype is not released for about eight years after (tbh Icarus crashed without sabotage, so maybe Mach 21 is just a bad idea).
Maybe TV-21 fiasco was the rift with GDF - Jeff drinks for a month revenge Brainstorms and shows up with specs for 5 rescue vehicles. The GDF say "no thank you, we're not paying for THAT anymore".
I really wonder when and how the Hood entered the picture. Alan seems to infer a) Kayo was around when "they" were little, so Kyrano was affiliated with Jeff; b) Kayo was "away at school" when Mom was presumably still around. TV-21 is in the timeframe of Scott "being a kid" (and other brothers too) - but that could be anything, up to and including being 18. Yet, none of the brothers go "Hey, the Hood is that partner Dad had when he started up the company!". It's a secret and a revelation the Hood hoped to hold as leverage (yeah, "tell me what company you keep").
