Product Placement
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EXPECTATIONS
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@entrysixteen
SANS IS FROM. DELTARUNE
theory chart that took me hours
i forgot to mention but the blood types in the intro sequence suggesting that monsters may have different types of blood to humans. but u guessed that already didnt you
Another thing i didn’t add was that the song “sans.” and the IDENTICAL song “sans.” are on the soundtracks for ut and dr.
;; okay… okay… Okay
Deltarune is great because I never thought we'd get a character even more confusing than like Spamton and Seam and shit and yet even above all the baffling things happening in chapters 3 and 4 This fucking guy still takes the crown for me
>Created from Kris's favorite(?) childhood toy the Electrical Outlet
>Inexplicably british despite being an american outlet and cares about Kris more than anyone else but only ever talks about their childhood cause that's all he knows; how Kris feels about him is unclear
>Spells out what's been making theorists crazy for years by stating he knows that freedom is what Kris really wants
>"The longer you spend here, the more you realize freedom's just a thing for big shots."
>Okay
>Says he has "The Original Game" of the legend of tenna that Kris used to love backstage, a game that has the freedom they want
>The game has no controller and Kris can only play it through a PINK AND YELLOW colored controller which appears out of fucking nowhere
>Kris says there was someone backstage with them because of this; Ramb says that isn't possible because he was keeping watch the whole time
>The game that's supposed to have the freedom Kris wants, is just a murder romp where you kill enemies that all are obviously resemblances of the Undertale cast with the music stopping after you kill them all in Suspiciously undertale no mercy run themed fashion
>Progressing in the game leads you to a bizarre and unsettling representation of literally just the Weird Route
>Kris progressing in the game leads them to stupid fucking Eram and seemingly just like a representation of their terrible childhood trauma and all the ominous shit happening with the bunker
>And Eram either Has the shadow mantle for some reason or IS the shadow mantle, Despite the fact that this is a fucking Video Game, and we Know that Seam HAD the shadow mantle in the REAL WORLD in chapter 2
>Ramb:
>Refuses to elaborate
>Dies
>Some fuck shows up and says that no one ever liked him and we're glad that he died. He was always talking about what was best for you
There is only one story in Hometown... mostly. The Prophecy is Lord of the Hammer is Dragon Blazers is the local religion. All the art that you can really call pop culture – that shapes how kids, or adults, relate to one another – emerges from the Prophecy. One single fairy tale, repeated over and over but still carrying its core ideological payload of destiny, and something terrible at the end.
Susie fundamentally couldn't fit in until she found her place in the Prophecy, and her self-image as someone who really isn't a bully is increasingly reliant on being the girl with hope crossed on her heart instead – reflected in her incidental exposure to Dragon Blazers via a Lost and Found cartridge, such that she's missing context and playing social catch-up compared to her peers.
And this is true of almost all media, but it's not true of horror. Blood Crushers, the movie about a killer severed hand, is the one piece of fiction referenced in any detail that has absolutely nothing to do with the Prophecy; not surprisingly, Noelle hides her interest in it from her family (playing the Glaceir sequence in secret; watching scary movies with Dess, the same scary stuff Kris remembers being interested in in her room), while Susie the outsider loves it openly.
The secret bosses, with their recurring fixation on freedom, are framed via the tropes of horror: killer clowns! Haunted puppets! An Evil Video Game! To break away from the single story that gives our lives structure is a traumatic rupture, which the Dark Worlds – shaped as they are by a culture that has plenty it refuses to look at, in their kids and in their lives – cannot imagine as anything but, well, a horror.
I know this is probably a common thought but like. asgore is totally being the worst right now and i hope the haha funny joke gets addressed and subverted like the rest of deltarune because right now …
asgore has no right to toriel’s time and especially no right for “another chance.” It honestly doesn’t even matter What he did. (although knowing what we know about those two, and about the world at large, it’s probably due to 25/12 and police negligence).
asgore cannot look after himself. he’s completely helpless without toriel. he doesn’t really have anything else other than his flower shop. oh and kris.
kris — let’s talk about that. why bring them into this at all? is it because toriel feels she can’t be too dismissive of them? is it because they’re a lonely, insecure teenager who is being told that if they both just convinced their stubborn mother, the last big obstacle, everything will “go back to the way it was” before asriel comes home?
he’s convinced, determined, positive that toriel is going to relent one day. but what basis to a relationship is that? what kind of message does that send to kris? what kind of a ‘happy family’ is based off chipping away until she’s so exhausted that she just gives up and takes him back?
toriel is overbearing. she picks out their clothes, she doesn’t listen to them, she isn’t there for them when it truly matters. but she’s dependable, kind and responsible. she takes care of them on a teacher’s salary.
asgore is also kind, too kind, seemingly. but he treats his life as a temporary solution. why should he sell his flowers, when he’s going to go home anyway? why save up for a bed frame? why learn to cook, when one day he’ll have all his meals cooked again?
kris pities him. toriel pities him. sans pities him. he’s a man to be pitied, but not a man free of responsibility or criticism. part of why he is so easy to pity is his denial.
but the denial is not self contained. the denial is uncomfortable, oppressive. he won’t leave toriel alone, never giving her the autonomy that maybe SHE is happier without HIM. he won’t stop involving kris. and when asriel gets home and everything isn’t back to normal even if they’re at a diner together, what’s to stop him from guilting her?
“isn’t this nice? we’re all a family again. if only it could be like this forever.”
no wonder kris is so annoyed and resistant to sans and his presence. it sticks a wrench in the delusion their dad is feeding them. maybe toriel isn’t waiting to be convinced right. maybe she’s moving on. and that means the fantasy is shattered.
i bet it feels good as fuck to speculate when you have a theory
little scared about the possible foreshadowing to kris losing a hand... the shadow crystal "for a moment, you thought you saw through your hand" dialogue (not exact quote but you know what im talking about), the secret gumball machine that says kris couldnt find their hand, susie saying she would keep fighting "as long as kris has got a hand to lift [her] up with," the protagonist in blood crushers 2 waking up without their hand...
and then there's the knight having holes in their hands, gaster being "the man who speaks in hands," etc.. the implications of this are vauge but Worrying. especially considering how important playing piano is to them
yeah definitely. one thing I've slowly starting to wonder is if they already lost a hand, or Something - they can reach into their own chest with one hand, there's all the egg room ominousness about grayscale copies and the gray that won't wash out of one crease, etc. if they have a hand that's in some way fake/unreal/vessel-y...
ITS THE CHURCH. ITS THE CHURCH DARK WORLD GUYS ITS THE CHURCH
okay try and see gravity falls from emma-may's perspective
you marry a smart, kind man who knows how to do everything from fixing the radiator to harvesting crops. he has a bright future ahead of him and the things he shows you are incredible. he truly seems like the dream man and you two have your whole lives ahead of you. the wedding and honeymoon go over smoothly, and you're excited to start a family.
you become pregnant with his child, and he supports you the whole way through while he works on his other baby, his computers. he's really making a breakthrough on this. he sure is something special.
you raise your child through the difficult infant stages, hand in hand. he's a great father and role model. you hope one day he'll take tate into the family business, especially with how much of a bright kid he seems to be turning out to be.
one day, he gets a call and accepts a job offer in another state. he packs his bags and leaves you to look after the kid yourself, kissing you and telling you he'll call every day.
every time he calls you, he sounds thrilled. he gushes about the exciting discoveries he's having with his business partner. monsters and man eating plants are real. you laugh along, not sure if this is a joke.
the calls and visits become less and less frequent. he goes a long time without visiting, but at least he'll be home for christmas.
you prepare a christmas dinner. you've picked out a few gifts for him, things you're sure he'll love. you greet him with a kiss, but he seems distant. he sits down to eat, and after eating the meal you'd spent hours on, the presents are opened.
you both give tate his presents, and you give your husband yours. he takes them, and he thanks you. but he doesn't give you anything.
you've been singlehandedly raising a child, his child, while he runs around doing who knows what with a 'lab partner' that he won't stop talking about, and he didn't even give you the time of day to spend a couple minutes to buy you something.
you yell. you cry. you cause a scene. instead of comforting you and apologising, he leaves the house and you don't see him for the rest of christmas day.
you don't see him for months after, and when he finally comes home, he's different. he isn't the same man you married. his behaviour is erratic, he keeps forgetting your name, his hair is going white.
he scares you, and he scares your son.
you divorce him, and think you can finally be free of all this.
but, as you arise in the morning, you hear the loud screeching of a huge robotic pterodactyl outside your window...
This lady’s a victim fr, we know early grey hair and erratic behavior is a side effect of the overuse of the memory gun. since Bud is a member of the society it’s likely he used that gun on her as much as he wanted to. It’s giving Stepford Wives levels of abuse
and him :(
FIRST EVAR STREAMMM in the club trying something new to engage with my followers and simply have a fun time.
TUMBLR'S SEXIEST OC 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: ROUND 1! MATCH 12
Elijah King vs. Brodie
Elijah King
Brodie
absolute SCANDAL and SHAME against beautiful women everywhere . ON THE FAT WOMEN APPRECIATION WEBSITE? For shame. Vote eli HEHEH :3 i love her so much please
do you have any predictions or theories for what asriel will be like in deltarune? im curious to hear your take
whatever happens i NEED the cheerful, sickly syrup sweet, rose tinted nostalgia that everyone in hometown paints asriel with to splinter to pieces. i hope he's fucked up. i hope he's meaner than anyone expects. i hope he's a person, rather than an idea.
The image used to create IMAGE_DEPTHS was recently found!
I think that while we are rightfully suspicious of that bunker, we also need to pay a little closer attention to that goddamn lake
I might even go as far as to say really ANYTHING where water is concerned actually
The fact that the portals to the Dark World are fountains
[ID: A screenshot from Deltarune. Kris and Susie are in a dark room standing before the Dark Fountain, a geyser with a complex graphical pattern that glows an ethereal green. End ID]
And how it uses the exact same graphic as the vessel creation sequence’s background
[ID: A screenshot from Deltarune. The same pattern from the fountain in the previous picture is used as the background, except it is deep blue instead of green. All caps text in front of it reads: “You must create a vessel.” End ID]
Onion’s secret that they reveal to Kris
[ID: Two screenshots from Deltarune. Kris stands before Hometown’s lake, from which Onion, a large sea creature akin to an onion, appears. A shadow passes over its grin as it says, “Sometimes… I hear a song at night.” It’s face turns sheepish as it continues: “It sounds like… it’s coming from under the water. Deep.” End ID]
And the soundbyte that plays in the black screen before Kris wakes up in the Dark World…
[ID: A screenshot from Deltarune. Kris lies face-down and unconscious in a barren Dark World. End ID]
… being called ocean.ogg.
I would also like to add the Riverperson says this. You know, the person who warns you about “The man who came from the other world” and “Beware of the man who speaks in hands”
If stuff about the sea is THIS far back, it has to be a major plot thing.
[ID: A screenshot from Undertale. Frisk is riding the River Person’s boat through Waterfall as the River Person says “Tra la la. Did you ever hear the old song coming from the sea?” End ID]
YEAH. I think I actually planned on adding that and forgot, so thank you!
I remember learning about the ocean.gg thing in a YouTube video and going on a frenzied search for any other potential water stuff in DeltaRune. In addition to the old song from the sea (which the video also brought up) and the fountains, here were my findings:
This line from if you beat Jevil by fighting him: “SOON, THE “QUEEN” RETURNS, AND HELL’S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS…“ We now know this was foreshadowing Queen and the end of Chapter 2, but the phrasing of the roar bubbling from the depths definitely catches my eye.
The shadow crystals are described in your dark world inventory as ”A sharp shadow moves like water in the hand.“ Other than the naming of the fountains, it’s the most direct association I’ve found of darkness/shadow with water.
Character-wise, I can’t help but think of Gerson and Alvin, two monsters based on turtles (animals that live in the ocean and on land), and wonder if they were made turtles for the sake of a metaphor about them dwelling in both the dark and light worlds. There are certainly hints that Gerson was involved in dark worlds in the past (the bench in his honor which encourages students to dream, his old classroom being the first proper dark world we visit, his knowledge of the Delta Rune in UnderTale, and him having been an author in a game where dark worlds seem to be a metaphor for fictional stories), and considering Alvin is involved with the light world’s Angel-based religion, and is apparently planning something with Gerson’s hammer, I’m fairly sure they’ll play into the history of the Dark Worlds.
While we’re on the topic of suspicious ocean-related characters, there’s obviously Onionsan, but also, Clam Girl. You know, the one who teased “Suzy” in UnderTale, who can become a Goner in the switch version with a line that teased DeltaRune’s release, and who you get faked out for in Chapter 2 if you fail to talk to Onionsan in chapter 1.
It’s also worth considering that both Gerson and Clam Girl come from UnderTale’s water-themed area, Waterfall, which itself is one of, if not the, most mysterious areas in UnderTale. @you-can-always-come-home has some great posts about this: [1] [2] [3]
And then, there’s this bit from UnderTale: “humans are made mostly of water”. Which, yes, is just a true fact. But it’s pointed out in comparison to monsters being made of magic. And considering everything here, with water potentially = darkness and dreams… If we then look to our friend Kris, who turns pale blue in the dark worlds, and who, if they look at themself through the shadow crystal, briefly finds their hand to be transparent… Perhaps there’s something concerning there.
In regards to what the purpose/meaning of this connection is, I had two thoughts I left in the comments of that vid that I’ll share here too.
Theory 1: The dark worlds are maybe meant to parallel (or be foreshadowed by) the trash dump in Waterfall. An area full of discarded items, flowing down into an unknown depth. A place where at least one of those items (thanks to Mad Dummy) gets new life. A place Frisk falls into, much like how Kris initially falls into the dark world. idk what would actually be being said by such a parallel, though. Unless Deltarune is literally taking place at the bottom of the waterfalls in the trash dump. Somehow.
Theory 2: The dark worlds are reflections of the light world. Both in how they’re based on the light world locations, and with certain characters seeming to parallel light world characters (like Queen seemingly paralleling Noelle’s mother in some ways). And, well, you can see reflections on the surface of bodies of water. But those reflections disguise the true natures of what’s under those depths.
You know how there’s a weird dissonance between Queen saying the Cyber World fountain was just made the day of chapter 2, but the characters seem to have a history older than that, including stuff like Tasque Manager somehow recognizing Jevil’s items even though he’s from a whole other dark world? Maybe the *versions* of the dark worlds we see, reflections of the light world maintained by the fountains, are new… but the “depths” of the dark worlds are both older and connected to each other, in ways we are so far unable to perceive or explore.
This could mean, depending on the actual mechanics of it, that we could seal all the fountains, saving the world and cutting off the light and dark worlds, without completely destroying the dark worlds and darkners. Assuming that’s the resolution DeltaRune is building to.
allegedly the Grand Fountain has existed for millenia, and i highly doubt the school has existed for all of time. you know what is unfathomably ancient? the ocean. and when you enter the closet dark world, unlike with all other dark worlds, you’re able to walk inside, and there’s normal objects inside, until the floor collapses. so what i’m thinking is, the Grand Fountain isn’t in the closet, but rather under it.
perhaps some sort of underground reservoir connected to the ocean through a cave system idk. maybe just the bunker. maybe the bunker is connected to the lake. maybe it goes under the lake and that’s where the singing is coming from. one of these has gotta stick right?
Hey so there’s even more to this water theory stuff.
First, I’d recommend reading this post by @agentravensong as well as the post of mine that they linked in that post, as they’re good context.
Now, have yourself a look at this observation by u/LimeLampShape on Reddit.
Let’s take a closer look at that “original sprite.”
You see it too, right? Rotate it 180°, and…
It’s the ocean. It’s waves! It’s WATER! 🎉 And I do think it looks quite a bit similar to what the artist was trying to portray in the LEGEND.
So… what does this mean? Does the gonermaker sequence take place at WORLDS’ EDGE? It would make sense that it would have the same texture as the fountains, which connect the two worlds and thus could absolutely be described as “WORLDS’ EDGE”.
What does it all mean?
Heckaroni I’ve never thought about this but I really like it! Another thing I’d like to point out is in some places the water table is a lot higher, so you can quite litterally dig to find water (digging a well) Something about that and the method used to create fountains being stabbing the ground…
Why did the entire Undertale fandom collectively decide that Frisk is 3-8 when they repeatedly flirt with people and go on a romantic date with Papyrus (who fully intended to be attracted to them but couldn't and feels as though this is a failing on his part) and even was supposed to have a robot husband at one point in development.
I tried being shitposty and goofy about it a year or two ago but no one took me seriously then so I'm phrasing it as a genuine question this time. Why is everyone so content to pretend this recurring aspect of their character just doesn't exist.
only a very small handful of monsters actually know that frisk is a child. toriel, asgore, gerson (the oldest characters in the game who still remember the surface, and thus, humans. asgore and toriel having raised one themselves) sans (...?) and monster kid. maybe alphys as well, given her interest in human media and how she says "that's adorable" when she mistakes undyne's letter for frisk's. everyone else has never seen a human before, and oftentimes doesn't even recognize frisk as one.
and well... that's the joke! they literally don't know that the human is a child, so they behave in ways that are absolutely insane when you know that they are. it's why every single one of the "dates" ends in us being friendzoned: we're meant to see it and groan awkwardly and laugh, because it's not something we're meant to take seriously.
I do agree that 3-8 is probably lowballing it though. I could mayyybe see 8 with a bit of a stretch, but I'd reckon they were designed with the 10-13 age range in mind. Mother 2, Mother 3, Pokemon... it's a time rife with child adventurer protagonists, after all!
I admit I was caught off-guard to see this post getting notes out of nowhere djndjdbfjdbdj
I think you make some good points, and ones that I don’t see a lot of people making, and since this reply I’ve gotten some additional commentary in the tags (that I’ll mention but won’t go screenshot hunting for bc I’m on mobile)
First I’ll mention is a question from someone asking if Frisk ever got an age confirmed. A few months ago I was replaying UT and got this dialogue for decorating Gyftrot.
If Gyftrot’s remark is correct, that’d put them in the 13-17 range (or I suppose up to 18-19 if you wanted to go the “adult teen” range). Given their dialogue options during the roleplay portion of Alphys’ hangout/fake date, and the way the characters you mentioned treat them vs how they behave, it would be fitting.
Same person who asked that question also brought up Monster Kid’s remark about “striped shirt = kid” and assumed that to be the overarching joke, which was the assumption I’ve been working with (or maybe still is, idk I gotta let the information brew for a bit). If they’re correct it’d be that XKCD quote:
I think the biggest source of conflict for me is the fact that most of the people who actually have experience with humans are also very old. (Though there’s Alphys who watches human media and Sans who has whatever the FUCK is going on with his backstory, to push closer to them being younger.)
Regarding the dates, the only character who’s actually genuine in their attempt (even if he fails at it) is Papyrus, whose age is specifically lampshaded (Monster Kid says they aren’t sure if he’s an adult or kid). My (and others’) leaning toward Papyrus being an adult did contribute to my assumption of Frisk being an adult as well, though between his age being even more ambiguous than Frisk’s, his general confusion about romance, and what you mentioned about no one BUT those select few ppl knowing that they’re young could indicate that not being the case.
I'm afraid your Gyftrot suggestion might be misguided, my irken fellow. You need only CHECK this out...
Gyftrot is already on the lookout due to his run-ins with the Snowdin teens who decorated it. It's Frisk's "youthful demeanor" that makes it suspicious:
Once again, there's this recurring vagueness and unsureness when monsters try to profile Frisk. They're FAR from capable of identifying them as anything specific, race OR agewise.
But returning to your point. I think it's fair to read Gyftrot's behavior as lumping Frisk in with the other gang of (more recognizably) teenaged hooligans who bothered it before, without really knowing Frisk's age. Not to mention, the dialogue you brought up reads "teeenage". As in an adjective, not a noun, to apply to "googly eyes". Considering Frisk found those on the ground...
...my assumption was always that they were a piece of decoration, belonging to those very teens from before, that Gyftrot had just managed to shake off. ie: "teenage googly eyes".
But I concede that this a very back and forth kind of point, so I think we can file this away as net zero information, HAHAHA.
I'm happy to know my arguments landed re: Papyrus, age confusion and why the date being inappropriate is part of the joke. If I may add another log to the fire, allow me to quote my favorite Papyrus phonecall of all time:
This is just SUCH a succint summary of my point in my original reply re: Undertale's tone and why people in fandom REALLY overexaggerate the negative impact it has on frisk. Kids love deadly spikes! This is a battle RPG! There's gonna be battles! The protagonist can take a few hits it's FINE, where's the fun otherwise? Do you want to play the game or not...?
But specifically, I would like to point out the punchline of the joke here, which is "IF YOU KNOW ANY KIDS, YOU SHOULD ASK THEM!!!" which requires that 1) Frisk is a kid and 2) Papyrus is very VERY oblivious about their age in order for it to land.
It's why I roll my eyes at people who DO agree that Frisk is a kid, but then say Papyrus is doing a playdate with them, like... No babes. He's just face blind as fuck LMAO.
Lastly, I think thee main and biggest argument for frisk being on the kid/younger side of teen at max is the fact that Undertale doesn't exist in a vacuum, but is in close conversation with its successor, Deltarune. We DO have a visual representation of what a human in the 16-18 age range looks like (one that looks like an older Frisk, at that) through Kris.
And come to think of it, Monster Kid too! With a change in size and proportion that is roughly equivalent to the Frisk/Kris one. I think this is enough to assume their comment about striped sweaters was—aside from being a meta joke about RPGs—more or less correct. Or at least, it speaks to some authorial intent on Toby's part for the way we're supposed to think about these characters.
I could also mention the very many MANY pieces of promotional art, official merch and depictions that don't confine themselves to the games' pixelated art style where Frisk is more recognizably a child. But I thought I'd restrict my points to the strictly canonical stuff :P
I bow to the jury. My argument is done. So sorry for the stupidly long essay in your notes, HAHAHA!
[ ID in alt text ]
Attribute all of Alphys' experiments and lab entries and accomplishments to Gaster one more time and the old man gets it
Mike Deltarune's identity theory
Alright I tried to build a nice theory post about it but it looked so bloated for what I simply wanna say also the tumblr post builder sucks
Ok Mike is probably gonna be a microphone right? (Not a microwave for sure) (See Spamton NEO's FIGHT end dialogue)
I'm putting my money on this being him then
Karaoke machines can connect to a tv right??
And Spamton is oh so sad about Mike for some reason, being buried in the ground is a good reason to be sad!!
