errant wings spread

23, tma, it/its, eris.

[errantwings-spread]

come on down to the transandrophobia movement! we've got:

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• regular transphobia

• strawman of a transfems argument

anyways this is why men are oppressed 😊

[errantwings-spread]

the thing that kills me whenever i talk to these people, is that they'll claim transfeminists at large are saying these awful things that clearly don't even align with transfeminism as an ideology. and when you ask for an example, they'll either not have anything at all or send something they're clearly misreading in a way to paint OP in an awful light. it's an entire movement made up of vibes and games of telephone passing around awful things that transfems are supposedly saying while not engaging with any actual intersectional theory

[errantwings-spread]

cannot think of a funnier response, not only did you do exactly what i was describing but this is also prime "you're the actual radfems!" while calling trans women misogynist, male defaultist, and rapists. be so real here

[errantwings-spread]

come on down to the transandrophobia movement! we've got:

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• regular transphobia

• strawman of a transfems argument

anyways this is why men are oppressed 😊

[errantwings-spread]

the thing that kills me whenever i talk to these people, is that they'll claim transfeminists at large are saying these awful things that clearly don't even align with transfeminism as an ideology. and when you ask for an example, they'll either not have anything at all or send something they're clearly misreading in a way to paint OP in an awful light. it's an entire movement made up of vibes and games of telephone passing around awful things that transfems are supposedly saying while not engaging with any actual intersectional theory

[errantwings-spread]

come on down to the transandrophobia movement! we've got:

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• strawman of a transfem's argument

• regular transphobia

• strawman of a transfems argument

anyways this is why men are oppressed 😊

[redcat117]

replied to someone on a post and kinda realized i could totally make it a post

intersectionality is not "add your identities together and get oppression points." i personally like to think of it kind of like a phase graph from chem to help visualize and understand, idk how to explain that visualization best some chemistry nerd can probably explain, it just works for me

a transfeminized person experiences misogyny and experiences transphobia. but the hatred she faces isn't just misogyny + transphobia. the predator stereotype, the pervert stereotype, the bathroom panic, the specific ways trans women's bodies are hypersexualized and also extremely policed are not things that happen to cis women with some extra transphobia added on top. it's a unique discrimination that happens to transfems that is specific and inseperable. so transmisogyny is the intersection of transphobia and misogyny because you can't separate the misogyny from the transphobia and still accurately describe the way the discrimination, violence, and hatred functions.

this is part of why transandrophobia doesn't work.

for transandrophobia to be real, you would need to to show that there is a meaningfully distinct form of oppression experienced by transmascs/men that is from being both trans and being men. not transphobia that targets transmascs. not misogyny that catches people perceived as female. not just someone being uncomfortable around men. a specific, inseperable hatred of transmascs/men as transmascs/men.

for an example if a cis woman and a transmasc are both denied an abortion by the same law, under the same logic, by the same system, then it is not "transandrophobia," it's an example of reproductive misogyny. the transmasc/man is experiencing it as a trans person with a uterus. the cis woman is experiencing it as a cis person with a uterus. it's not happening because a trans man is a man, it's happening because the govt views people with the ability to give birth as incubators and those who cannot as failures.

there is no oppression that men face to intersect with transphobia and the misogyny that transmascs/men can get hit with isn't inseperable from the transphobia, those layers could be peeled back and the hatred and discrimination can still be discussed and described accurately.

[thedorkdionysia]

the thing is that the way people treat trans women they don't like is that the behavior they're engaging in is like as old as (and even older than) the modern generation of transphobic backlash against the trans liberation moment

[thedorkdionysia]

Beth Elliott is a transfem folk singer who was involved with West Coast lesbian political movements in the 70s. her inclusion was debated for a while, partly because she was transgender, but also because a lesbian who she used to have a relationship with was involved with a separate lesbian group, who protested against her inclusion at a lesbian conference that she had helped to set up. the conference took a vote that resulted in the majority saying she should be allowed to stay, but the trans-exclusive lesbians refused to allow the vote to hold. she performed once on the first night, and then didn't return, and the next night one of the speakers delivered a speech that was changed from her original notes to be more of a transphobic screed against Elliot, alleging her of having "the mentality of a rapist". this incident certainly didn't *invent* the idea of trans women being rapists, but it does predate The Transsexual Empire by several years and was definitely a contributing factor to its creation.

and i say "is" at the top of this story because Beth Elliott is still alive!!!! this incident was not that long ago!!!!! it DID damage her career, however, and it practically made her a social pariah. but it's the same type of shit people do to trans women to this very day. these tactics are relatively recent overall but they are still time honored traditions with trans-exclusive feminists.

[thedorkdionysia]

this isn't even about michfest is the crazy part. this incident happened in 1973, and michfest as an event started 3 years later in 1976. the first michfest where trans women were explicitly removed from the event took place in 1991, after it had already been running for 25 years. the type of thinking that caused the organizers of michfest to push trans women out of participating in an event they had long been a part of was the same type of thinking that had caused lesbian activists to push Beth Elliott out of the event she had organized as well as her career, and it's the same type of thinking that led to writings like The Transsexual Empire coming into existence.

[mousidy]

it's interesting but not really surprising to see that some people consider "TME" a pejorative term because, like, it's normal for terms that describe a majority who holds privilege over a minority to carry a negative connotation, especially when you mainly only hear them used by said oppressed class discussing their oppression. like, of course we don't tend toward using the term in a positive way. that doesn't make it a slur

[transsexual-feminism]

"cis is a slur" type behavior

[lady-viccy]

"im not straight im normal"