The Girliest Boss U Know

She/her, 22 Myth poaster / my Discord shares a ton of ancient Greco-Roman sources and translations very conveniently; scholia, fragments, numerous translations of plays, poems, bookclubs, collective dramatic readings, etc https://discord.gg/YdnXtAdzR

[fostydosty]

There are the rich who are never satisfied because their wealth is never enough for them; these citizens are totally useless for the city. Then there are the poor who, because their daily bread is never enough, are dangerous because they are deceived by the tongues of crooked politicians...

-Theseus to Adrastus in Euripides' Suppliants

Comrade Theseus, voice of the proletariat

[fostydosty]

Hera and Hephaestus commission I got from Ashyskai (you can also find them at Ashyskaii)

The idea is that part of Hephaestus’ divine disability makes him age a lot slower than other gods, hence him being the same age as a young adult Ares who was already running around in battles and stuff. Hera fears that the discovery of her bearing a less-than-perfect child could rupture her status as wife of Zeus and queen of Heaven— Leto already makes jabs at Hera’s children to praise that fortunetelling kook of hers. So, despite the pain it made her feel, she concealed Hephaestus and cast him out to sea with the hope that one of the sea goddesses will find him. It would be almost a decade before she discovered that her own foster daughter Thetis took him in <3

(Also join my Discord, we do ancient poem/play bookclubs + I’ve compiled hundreds of open-access translations to things. I share new scholia translations, PDFs of fragments, and have a ton of discussion boards to talk about all that stuff and more. It’s constantly being updated whenever I learn about a new translation or have the energy to catalogue another poet. Also I really wanna find enough people to do some dramatic readings of plays)

[sapocipo]

How their offers sounded to me

[fostydosty]

Live Paris reaction

(he fled while Hermes chased after him and Hera bade him to stop. She was usually the first to speak to him, and spoke to him the longest)

This is my favorite vase of them interacting. I like to think she’s telling him how much work she put into that apple. How its unblemished surface symbolizes her loving marriage to Zeus; and in effect, her status as the heir of Gaia, making her queen of all queens. She rules over every kingdom, and could allot all of them to him if he deigned her to.

Also casual reminder that the word “fairest” on the apple was originally Καλλίστῃ (Kalliste) which basically meant beautiful, kinda, but it was a form of κᾱ̆λός (kā̆lós) which meant, very specifically:

beautiful; lovely

useful; helpful; appropriate

good; right; moral; virtuous; noble

All things which are wrapped up in different forms of beauty. You might notice that this perfectly lines up with the three goddesses (Aphrodite/Athena/Hera).

Imo, a better translation of the apple which accurately encapsulates its meaning in English would be “to the most valuable.” And their arguments would be over what makes a woman valuable, where does her worth come from?

Aphrodite could spurn the idea of it being mere physical beauty (even if she has that in spades), and argue it’s about a lovely demeanor, an attractive presence, an alluring voice or temperament. “Value comes from the joy you bring to others.”

Athena could reject the idea of being attractive to others, arguing that it’s about the objective usefulness of a woman. What sorts of textiles can she produce? How good of an artist is she? How helpful is she to the people around her? How involved is she with her community? “Value comes from what you can do for others.”

Hera might agree with both of them, but could argue that a woman’s value comes from her virtuosity, her morals, how she shows those virtues in her actions, and the nobility of her birth. A woman without loyalty to her husband can hardly be as valuable as one who never strays; a woman without a mother to teach her right from wrong can hardly be as valuable as the daughter of a queen. “Value comes from who you are around others.”

Their “bribes” merely present Paris with a very literal manifestation of their domains. Hera offers him power, Athena offers him victory, Aphrodite offers him love.

And in this case: a regal lion, her own helmet, and her son Eros, respectively.

(Also worth acknowledging that this isn’t necessarily a case of “mistranslation” leading us to say that it’s “for the most beautiful” but rather something like linguistic drift in ancient times. It was treated as a serious contest in Archaic times, but during the Classical and later periods it was seen as a laughable case of the goddesses being very vain. I prefer to take them seriously by going with the idea of the apple saying “to the most noble/useful/lovely” and the goddesses arguing their cases for why their version of that is most valuable)

[fostydosty]

The Childhood of Ares

Felt like folks might appreciate another one of my heavily-sources posts on the gods. Finally did one on Ares.

Focuses on his childhood in being raised by the Horae (especially justified Dike and peaceful Eireine), Thero the Beastwoman, and Priapus Dactylus.

[sapocipo]

Oh wow. Not even Adonis is safe from Aphrodite's hot and cold love

[sapocipo]

I've been told that who wrote this research was Robert Graves. I did read a bit around him just to know how seriously I should take his word and now I am kind of skeptical about the legitimacy of this source.

Luckily he mentions the sources he took this from so it helps me to know what I should read

Apollonius Rhodius

Diodorus Siculus

Theocruitus's Idylls

Lycophrom

None of these sources seems to imply that she slept with Butes with the objective of making Adonis jealous. Apollonius only mentions Aphrodite saving Butes out of pity. Diodorus was more interested in relating the costumes of Sicily and praising Eryx, he mentions Butes only at the start and there is no mentions of Adonis. Theocruitus talks about the festival of Adonia with no mention of Butes. Lycophrom just briefly mentions Eryx. I am very inclined to not believe this narrative... I am quite relieved, Butes x Aphrodite is too goated for her to sleep with him just to make Adonis jealous. But now that I know that this guy is not that reliable I want to comment on some other stuff he says that I think it is misleading

The only source that I know that even mentions Adonis adding his portion of the year to Aphrodite is Pseudo-Apollodorus and it never say that she used her girdle to bewitch him.

That detail was very unnecessary to add and it really paints Aphrodite into a negative light of manipulating her lover's free will

😭where did he get this from? What?

[fostydosty]

Note: they cited the Theocritus scholiast on 15.100, not Theocritus himself. And they were saying Tzetzes’ On Lycophron, not Lycophron himself.

Scholiast on Theocritus’ 15th Idyll, like 100:

δέσποιν' ἃ Γολγώς: πόλις Κύπρου ὠνομα- σμένη ἀπὸ Γολγοῦ τοῦ ᾿Αδώνιδος καὶ ᾿Αφροδίτης. Ἰδάλιον δὲ πόλις Κύπρου. Ἔρυξ δὲ πόλις Σικελίας ἀπὸ Ἔρυκος τοῦ 10 Βούτου καὶ ᾿Αφροδίτης. τὸ δὲ χρυσῷ παίζουσ' ᾿Αφροδίτα τοιοῦτον ἴσως ἐστίν, ὅτι οἱ ἐρῶντες χρυσῷ πείθουσι τὸ ἐρώ- μενον.

Here is a rough translation:

Mistress of Golgoi: a city of Cyprus, named after Golgos, the son of Adonis and Aphrodite. Idalion too is a city of Cyprus. Eryx is a city of Sicily, named after Eryx, the son of Butes and Aphrodite. And the phrase ‘Aphrodite playing with gold’ is perhaps of this sort: that lovers persuade the beloved with gold.

Scholiast on 103a is also interesting for Adonis

μηνὶ δυωδεκάτω: τινὲς δι' εξαμήνου φασὶν ἀνέρχεσθαι τὸν "Αδωνιν.

In the twelfth month: some say that Adonis ascends after six months.

Tzetzes’ On Lycophron 831a:

“Schoeneidi;” Schoeneis, Arenta, and Xene are epithets of Aphrodite. Adonis is called “Gauas” by the Cypriots. According to some, Adonis was the son of Cinyras, the king of the Cypriots, and not Theiantos, from whom Aphrodite gave birth to Priapus, who was ugly and deep-voiced. For Hera, being pregnant, touched her with a bewitched hand and caused her to give birth to such a child. Adonis was called “destroyed by the Muses” because the Muses, angry at Aphrodite for causing them to fall in love and making many of them give birth, killed her beloved Adonis. They sang a delightful hunting song, and hearing it, he was excited and rushed to hunt, where he was killed by a boar. Others say he was killed by Ares in the war. The Muses, carried away by their anger at Aphrodite, because she had stirred many of them to love and persuaded them to mate with men and give birth, such as Calliope giving birth to Orpheus and Cymodoce from Oeagrus; Terpsichore giving birth to Rhesus from Strymon; Cleio giving birth to Linus from Magnes; they killed her beloved Adonis. For they sang a delightful hunting song and caused Adonis, Aphrodite's lover, who heard it, to be excited and rushed to hunt. Ares, the god, being Aphrodite's rival, either transformed himself into a boar or, seeing Adonis rushing at a boar, came against him and killed him. And Adonis's blood flowing down turned the anemone, which was previously white, red; for Adonis happened to fall near an anemone. Aphrodite, learning of the tragedy, ran around barefoot, lamenting pitifully, and she herself, pierced by the thorns of a rose, turned the rose red with the flowing blood.

Tzetzes’ On Lycophron 831b:

“Gauas” is etymologized as the dead from the earth being breathed; for the dead are dried by the earth. “Strong city” is said to be strong from the verb “to protect” and “to guard” those who stay in it. “Schoeneidi” because the plant “schoinos” when chewed cleans the teeth and stimulates sexual desire. Arenta is said because it fits two strangers into one marital union, Xene because it makes love. The syntax is as follows: “Menelaus will see” this and this and “the tomb” of “Gauas” the “destroyed by the Muses” - paraphrasing Adonis - the “mourned” and lamented by Aphrodite in this and that way, whoever Adonis was killed by “the plane tree” and the boar “in” “the mixing bowl” and “white” tooth. From saying that he will see the tomb of Adonis, either he means the place where Adonis lies or Byblos or Cyprus; for Adonis was in Byblos and in Cyprus another Adonis, the son of Cinyras, which some who do not know exactly confuse the young men who do not know that the Adonis of Myrra is Byblian, and the one we mentioned is Cypriot. He calls Cyprus the island of Adonis. But it is also badly formed to say “the tomb” and “destroyed by the Muses”; for it was not the tomb, but Adonis who was destroyed by the Muses.

[apollo-god-of-many-things]

Hera piece based off that one pottery piece

[fostydosty]

Girlboss!!!

Anyone else remember that gigantomachy vase where a giant was surrendering and Hera was standing on his leg after sweeping them out from under him, about to execute him anyway? Ruthless is mercy 🎶

[lasmishen]

Olympus best dad and mum some say….

[hera-hell]

🦁🐦🐄🦚

[temperamentalgreen]

🍐🐄 Hera Pais, the cow eyed bride🪵🏛

 "I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bare. Queen of the immortals is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and the wife of loud-thundering Zeus, -- the glorious one whom all the blessed throughout high Olympus reverence and honour even as Zeus who delights in thunder." -Homeric Hymn to Hera

"The presence of a cuckoo seated on the sceptre [of Hera] they explain by the story that when Zeus was in love with Hera in her maidenhood he changed himself into this bird, and she caught it to be her pet [in order to seduce her]." - Pausanias, Description of Greece 2. 17. 4

I’m currently reading "The Transformation of Hera: A Study of Ritual, Hero, and the Goddess in the Iliad" by Joan V. O’Brien. She argues, sometimes speculatively, about the early cult origins of Hera, but I still find it very interesting.

The book suggests that Hera’s early rites in Samos might have portrayed her as arriving annually on a horse drawn chariot at a confluence of waters, where her bathing and binding to a cultic tree were believed to renew all life, presenting her as a goddess of the seasons.

There also seems to be an argument that she had a connection to the Potnia Theron, based on the large animals associated with her and the artifacts found at her temples, such as lions, griffins, and sphinxes. Her association with domestic animals like cows and horses could suggest that she was seen as a tamer of beasts, and her yoking of the bull may be parallel marriage and the "taming and yoking" of the bride.

I find this especially interesting because it aligns with my view of Hera as a goddess who makes things perfect.

In some traditions, it seems that she was worshipped in different life stages with epithets such as Hera Pais (the young maiden before marriage) Hera Teleia (the married woman)

Hera Chēra (the widow or separated woman) I drew her here as Hera Pais, a young maiden, the Kore of Samos, dressed in red and yellow thought to be the colours of bridal wear in antiquity. I would like to draw her again soon, I really enjoyed drawing her but I have to work on drawing animals, the cuckoo looks too much like a pigeon lol

[a-gnosis]

Inktober 12: Young Hera racing.

“Hera’s cult at Olympia was administered by a college of sixteen women chosen from the most venerable and respected matrons of the district. These women organized the Heraia, or games held to honor Hera, concurrently with the quadrennial Olympic games. While women were generally excluded from the Olympic games both as competitors and spectators, the Heraia involved a footrace for girls of three different age categories. They ran in the same stadium as the men and boys, though the track was one-sixth shorter. The winners received a portion of the meat from the cow sacrificed to Hera and a crown of olive.”

Ancient Greek Cults: A Guide by Jennifer Larson.

[sapocipo]

Who will be the one to tell her?

[fostydosty]

Catch Me I’m Falling

Hera: We had Ares to re-… and I know he knows… I couldn’t hold him in the hospital… I couldn’t let myself hold him…

Psyche: That’s the first time you’ve mentioned Ares in weeks of therapy.

Ares: He’s not there!

Eris: He’s not there!

Enyo: He’s not there!

[nardialrose]

What is your opinion about Zeus' serial infidelity and its context? I've heard many different explanations and conclusions. One I see often is that this is the byproduct of many local heroes being descendants of Zeus and that the king of the cosmos having mistresses wouldn't be out of place for Greek royalty. However, if that were true, why is Hera frequently furious over Zeus' bastards and extra-marital affairs, to the point that he had to disguise Io, instead of accepting or passive? Is Hera a commentary on jealous wives angered by the king's lack of attention to them? And if that's true, why do so many myths portray Zeus so irresponsibly, comparing him to a king who frequently neglects his wife?

Tbh I don’t have a definitive answer as to what the Greeks make of Hera’s jealousy because it depends if there was a commentary of some kind.

It’s true the Greeks wanted to trace their lineage to the gods particularly Zeus. Hera’s crusade toward his women and children to prevent them from usurping her position of power like you said is also true (though the details differs for each of the offspring).

In Homeric Hymn to Apollo, Hera expressed her anger toward Zeus for bearing better and stronger children than hers, provoking her to give birth to Typhon to challenge him. In Callimachus’ Hymn, Leto and Apollo were chosen as Zeus’ new primary family, basing off the Ptolemies political framework.

Likewise, Hera’s crusade toward Dionysus for similar reasons particularly in “Orphic” myths. And of course there’s Heracles, whose myth was retold in Euripides.

However, this overlooked the fact that the explanation is not applicable elsewhere.

Other victims of Hera’s persecutions are Io, Aegina and Aeacus, Lamia, Callisto, Aphrodite and Priapus. The problem with applying the explanations here is that they don’t fitted with the logic. Their children are not popular gods or heroes like Apollo, Dionysus, and Heracles. Doesn't help in some variations of the myths, Hera is not involved in the conflict at all like with Callisto.

Zeus’ sex escapades was a popular subject in Greek comedies, to the point out of mockery, but Hera was reportedly absent in these plays.

We do have mentions of Zeus or his woman fear in provoking Hera, famously with Io and Maia, but also Elara (Ps-Apollodorus Bibliotheca 1. 23), Othreis (Antoninus Liberalis  Metamorphoses 13). But, again we are not given why Zeus need to be afraid of Hera if he's the king and he could easily protect some of these women.

The closest thing that any of the authors addressed Hera's issues of her treatment toward the women was Plautus, a Roman playwright who lived during the Republic era. In the Amphitryon play, he eliminated Hera/Juno's role in the story and implied by Hermes/Mercury that she will be angry at Zeus/Jove instead of Alcmene, presenting them as bickering spouses

The point I’m trying to make is that it really depends. While Hera is shrewd for pragmatic reasons to consolidate her position, other accounts does show her as someone who is genuinely jealous over Zeus' infidelities.

[fostydosty]

Io, Aegina and Aeacus, Lamia, Callisto, Aphrodite and Priapus

Io was Hera’s own priestess and she was the foremother of Perseus, Danaus, Heracles, Cadmus, Dionysus, and many other heroes. She was incredibly influential. The various scholarly hypotheses around her prehistory are very interesting and hard to express here.

The only sources for Hera persecuting Aegina/Aeacus seem to be Ovid’s Metamorphoses and Ps.Hyginus. Not saying that that means it’s totally fabricated, but also, Greek sources are very explicit about Aegina having been uninhabited when Zeus made earthborns (later punnily said to be ants) for Aeacus to rule over. Having Hera kill everyone there could be a poetic development of the Latin poets, it’s hard to tell.

The folklore of Lamia the monster, and even her transformation, predates Hera’s involvement in her story, and I’d conjecture that it had something to do with Lamia’s status as having lost her children, which was something a woman might blame Hera, a goddess of childbirth, for. Combined with stories of Zeus and a different Lamia hooking up = Hera fulfills her role as the stock villain in the stories of Zeus’ children.

Diodorus 20.41:

At the base of this rock was a large cave thickly covered with ivy and bryony, in which according to myth had been born Lamia, a queen of surpassing beauty.⁠ But on account of the savagery of her heart they say that the time that has elapsed since has transformed her face to a bestial aspect. For when all the children born to her had died,⁠ weighed down in her misfortune and envying the happiness of all other women in their children, she ordered that the new-born babes be snatched from their mothers' arms and straightway slain. Wherefore among us even down to the present generation, the story of this woman remains among the children and her name is most terrifying to them.⁠ But whenever she drank freely, she gave to all the opportunity to do what they pleased unobserved. Therefore, since she did not trouble herself about what was taking place at such times, the people of the land assumed that she could not see. And for that reason some tell in the myth that she threw her eyes into a flask,⁠ metaphorically turning the carelessness that is most complete amid wine into the aforesaid measure, since it was a measure of wine that took away her sight. One might also present Euripides as a witness that she was born in Libya, for he says: "Who does not know the name of Lamia, Libyan in race, a name of greatest reproach among mortals?"

Callisto is a similar case. Hera was added to the story later, while in Hesiod it was just Artemis and Zeus who were a problem for her. Part of the motivation for adding Hera to the story may have been to find a justification for why Tethys never let Ursa Major set in Oceanus (ie, she was an arctic circle constellation), and also partly to absolve Artemis of blame by saying Hera told her / tricked her to do it.

I can’t find any classical sources which make Priapus Zeus’ son; just the Suda says so. She curses him regardless of if he’s Adonis’ or Dionysus’ son in earlier accounts, so Zeus/infidelity of her husband doesn’t seem to be a factor in that story.

Conclusion: I don’t necessarily say all this to wholesale dismiss these stories, but just to address that there is a different cultural context behind them. Hera’s prehistoric hatred for Heracles is very different and unique from her Roman(?) hatred for Aeacus, or her Hellenistic hatred for Priapus. I’d go as far as to argue her persecution of most children other than Heracles seems to simply be inspired by her persecution of Heracles. See: Homeric Hymn to Apollo, which contains a doublet of the scene of Hera persecuting Heracles in the Iliad.

Her persecution of women I think would be inspired by her persecution of Io, which imo is her victim of most antiquity, particularly given their connection to Argos and Io having many different regional names. It’s been argued that Io is some prehistoric form of Hera, but I don’t have the eloquence to argue that.

Hera’s hatred being borne out of pure “wrongful” jealousy was very much the opinion of the Classical Athenians, who loved inserting her as a stock villain, at the very least. Her archaic complexity presented in the Iliad is completely watered down and removed, making her into the characteristic bitch everyone knows and hates.

[nardialrose]

Will disagreed.

The issue with the conclusion that Hera as a jealous nagging wife characteristics being invented by Classical Athenians as a misogynistic stock trope is that we have little to no evidences of this. We have a lot writings and plays about Zeus and his conquests and his mistresses, but we don't have reports of Hera making significant appearances in them, relegating to only off-hand mentions like in Euripides' Heracles and Prometheus Bound.

This famous characteristics of Hera who would get angry at her husband king including his affairs was already embedded in the Archaic sources. Famously in the Iliad, Theogony, and the Homeric Hymns.

Lamia was attested in Euripides and Crates, but we don't have any of their fragments. However, Hera's involvement was already attested in Doris of Samos in 3rd century BCE (further supported by Scholi. Aristophanes Peace 758).

The stuff about Io being a prehistoric form of Hera and having regional names, again there's no evidences of this and I haven't seen any reputable specialists arguing on this theory.

I'm not denying Hera is all about the wicked stepmother in the myths, she's a lot more outside of that. But given she was often the figure who target Zeus' women and children instead of any other wives of Zeus like Themis or Leto, it's speaks that she was already seen as such by the Classical and Hellenistic era.

[fostydosty]

This famous characteristics of Hera who would get angry at her husband king including his affairs was already embedded in the Archaic sources. Famously in the Iliad, Theogony, and the Homeric Hymns.

I disagree. Hera has a lot of issues with Zeus in the Iliad, but they don’t seem to be his infidelity. Her issue with him the entire time is that he undermines her attempts to raze Troy, her goal for the entire poem.

In the Theogony we see her going after Heracles, but again I don’t think there’s evidence of her going after any of his other lovers and children in the Theogony?

The Homeric hymns vary in date, but most are clearly influenced by the Homeric and Hesiodic, like Apollo’s. Dionysus’ contentions with Hera might be old as well, like Heracles’, mostly due to how their actual cults and priestesses had issues with each other in Athens, which implies a significantly older tension there

Edit: also we do have some evidence of this in the case of the Proetides. Hera was seemingly added as their antagonist by Bacchylides. It was the subject of an essay on JSTOR i could find if someone wanted

[nardialrose]

What is your opinion about Zeus' serial infidelity and its context? I've heard many different explanations and conclusions. One I see often is that this is the byproduct of many local heroes being descendants of Zeus and that the king of the cosmos having mistresses wouldn't be out of place for Greek royalty. However, if that were true, why is Hera frequently furious over Zeus' bastards and extra-marital affairs, to the point that he had to disguise Io, instead of accepting or passive? Is Hera a commentary on jealous wives angered by the king's lack of attention to them? And if that's true, why do so many myths portray Zeus so irresponsibly, comparing him to a king who frequently neglects his wife?

Tbh I don’t have a definitive answer as to what the Greeks make of Hera’s jealousy because it depends if there was a commentary of some kind.

It’s true the Greeks wanted to trace their lineage to the gods particularly Zeus. Hera’s crusade toward his women and children to prevent them from usurping her position of power like you said is also true (though the details differs for each of the offspring).

In Homeric Hymn to Apollo, Hera expressed her anger toward Zeus for bearing better and stronger children than hers, provoking her to give birth to Typhon to challenge him. In Callimachus’ Hymn, Leto and Apollo were chosen as Zeus’ new primary family, basing off the Ptolemies political framework.

Likewise, Hera’s crusade toward Dionysus for similar reasons particularly in “Orphic” myths. And of course there’s Heracles, whose myth was retold in Euripides.

However, this overlooked the fact that the explanation is not applicable elsewhere.

Other victims of Hera’s persecutions are Io, Aegina and Aeacus, Lamia, Callisto, Aphrodite and Priapus. The problem with applying the explanations here is that they don’t fitted with the logic. Their children are not popular gods or heroes like Apollo, Dionysus, and Heracles. Doesn't help in some variations of the myths, Hera is not involved in the conflict at all like with Callisto.

Zeus’ sex escapades was a popular subject in Greek comedies, to the point out of mockery, but Hera was reportedly absent in these plays.

We do have mentions of Zeus or his woman fear in provoking Hera, famously with Io and Maia, but also Elara (Ps-Apollodorus Bibliotheca 1. 23), Othreis (Antoninus Liberalis  Metamorphoses 13). But, again we are not given why Zeus need to be afraid of Hera if he's the king and he could easily protect some of these women.

The closest thing that any of the authors addressed Hera's issues of her treatment toward the women was Plautus, a Roman playwright who lived during the Republic era. In the Amphitryon play, he eliminated Hera/Juno's role in the story and implied by Hermes/Mercury that she will be angry at Zeus/Jove instead of Alcmene, presenting them as bickering spouses

The point I’m trying to make is that it really depends. While Hera is shrewd for pragmatic reasons to consolidate her position, other accounts does show her as someone who is genuinely jealous over Zeus' infidelities.

[fostydosty]

Io, Aegina and Aeacus, Lamia, Callisto, Aphrodite and Priapus

Io was Hera’s own priestess and she was the foremother of Perseus, Danaus, Heracles, Cadmus, Dionysus, and many other heroes. She was incredibly influential. The various scholarly hypotheses around her prehistory are very interesting and hard to express here.

The only sources for Hera persecuting Aegina/Aeacus seem to be Ovid’s Metamorphoses and Ps.Hyginus. Not saying that that means it’s totally fabricated, but also, Greek sources are very explicit about Aegina having been uninhabited when Zeus made earthborns (later punnily said to be ants) for Aeacus to rule over. Having Hera kill everyone there could be a poetic development of the Latin poets, it’s hard to tell.

The folklore of Lamia the monster, and even her transformation, predates Hera’s involvement in her story, and I’d conjecture that it had something to do with Lamia’s status as having lost her children, which was something a woman might blame Hera, a goddess of childbirth, for. Combined with stories of Zeus and a different Lamia hooking up = Hera fulfills her role as the stock villain in the stories of Zeus’ children.

Diodorus 20.41:

At the base of this rock was a large cave thickly covered with ivy and bryony, in which according to myth had been born Lamia, a queen of surpassing beauty.⁠ But on account of the savagery of her heart they say that the time that has elapsed since has transformed her face to a bestial aspect. For when all the children born to her had died,⁠ weighed down in her misfortune and envying the happiness of all other women in their children, she ordered that the new-born babes be snatched from their mothers' arms and straightway slain. Wherefore among us even down to the present generation, the story of this woman remains among the children and her name is most terrifying to them.⁠ But whenever she drank freely, she gave to all the opportunity to do what they pleased unobserved. Therefore, since she did not trouble herself about what was taking place at such times, the people of the land assumed that she could not see. And for that reason some tell in the myth that she threw her eyes into a flask,⁠ metaphorically turning the carelessness that is most complete amid wine into the aforesaid measure, since it was a measure of wine that took away her sight. One might also present Euripides as a witness that she was born in Libya, for he says: "Who does not know the name of Lamia, Libyan in race, a name of greatest reproach among mortals?"

Callisto is a similar case. Hera was added to the story later, while in Hesiod it was just Artemis and Zeus who were a problem for her. Part of the motivation for adding Hera to the story may have been to find a justification for why Tethys never let Ursa Major set in Oceanus (ie, she was an arctic circle constellation), and also partly to absolve Artemis of blame by saying Hera told her / tricked her to do it.

I can’t find any classical sources which make Priapus Zeus’ son; just the Suda says so. She curses him regardless of if he’s Adonis’ or Dionysus’ son in earlier accounts, so Zeus/infidelity of her husband doesn’t seem to be a factor in that story.

Conclusion: I don’t necessarily say all this to wholesale dismiss these stories, but just to address that there is a different cultural context behind them. Hera’s prehistoric hatred for Heracles is very different and unique from her Roman(?) hatred for Aeacus, or her Hellenistic hatred for Priapus. I’d go as far as to argue her persecution of most children other than Heracles seems to simply be inspired by her persecution of Heracles. See: Homeric Hymn to Apollo, which contains a doublet of the scene of Hera persecuting Heracles in the Iliad.

Her persecution of women I think would be inspired by her persecution of Io, which imo is her victim of most antiquity, particularly given their connection to Argos and Io having many different regional names. It’s been argued that Io is some prehistoric form of Hera, but I don’t have the eloquence to argue that.

Hera’s hatred being borne out of pure “wrongful” jealousy was very much the opinion of the Classical Athenians, who loved inserting her as a stock villain, at the very least. Her archaic complexity presented in the Iliad is completely watered down and removed, making her into the characteristic bitch everyone knows and hates.

[theoihalioistuff]

Schol. T Il. 16. 222a. daidaleēs (cunningly wrought): They used to call intricate works daidala after Daidale, the mother of Metis, by whom Athena was reared.

Eustath. 1056. 53: The daidaleē chest, and generally all things called daidaleia or daidalea or daidala, [derive their name] not only from Daidalos the Cretan, but also, as is shown elsewhere, from the mythical Daidale, the mother of Metis, by whom, they say, Athena was reared.

Etym. M. 250. 56: Daidalos: The proper name of the hero; from [the verb] daiō (meaning "to know/be skilled"), [hence] daialos, the skilled one, which by the doubling of the [letter] d [becomes] daidalos. Or from daiō, [meaning] "to learn"; and daidala, [meaning] intricate works, which come from learning and experience; or from daēnai, things born from instruction. Or from Daidalos, one who decorates his works. Or from Daidale, Athena's grandmother or nurse. And everything created by the virgin [Athena] is attributed to her.

I find this last sentence particularly lovely: anything Athena makes (i.e. anything made beautifully or cleverly) is ultimately credited to the person who raised her, her grandma.

<3

[fostydosty]

Daidale was a local Boeotian goddess who became replaced by Hera as a part of the Daedala festival. Images of Daidale would be burned in Hera’s honor, though presumably the festival was originally for Daidale and she would’ve been glorified by it symbolically or something.

Pausanias mentions how Athena was raised by Alalcomenes:

Alalcomenae is a small village, and it lies at the very foot of a mountain of no great height. Its name, some say, is derived from Alalcomeneus, an aboriginal, by whom Athena was brought up; others declare that Alalcomenia was one of the daughters of Ogygus. At some distance from the village on the level ground has been made a temple of Athena with an ancient image of ivory.

He also describes the Daedala festival, you can find it here.

Here’s what Plutarch describes of it, in his On the Festival of Images At Plataea, though (it’s harder to find so I wanted to share this one):

It is that when Hera fell out with Zeus and would no longer consort with him but hid herself, he wandered around at his wits’ end; in this state he fell in with Alalcomeneus the aboriginal, who instructed him that he must trick Hera by a pretence of marrying someone else. Alalcomeneus assisted him in secretly felling a lovely straight-grained oak-tree, which they shaped and dressed like a bride, giving it the name of Daidalê. Then, these preparations made, the wedding-song rang out, and the Nymphs of the river Tritonb brought the water for the bridal bath, and Boeotia provided pipes and revelry. As all this went forward, Hera could stand it no longer, but came down from Cithaeron, with a retinue of women from Plataea, and ran in anger and jealousy to confront Zeus. The counterfeit being exposed, she was reconciled to him and herself led the bridal procession with joy and laughter; she gave honour to the wooden image, by naming the festival Daidala, but for all that she burnt it up, lifeless though it was, in her jealousy.

In conclusion: the sources you noted are evidence enough, for me, to say that Hera was Athena’s nurse <333333

[sarafangirlart]

The retelling concept of gods loosing their powers or even ceasing to exist bc ppl stopped believing in/ worshipping them has no credence in mythology but I get the vibe this trope stems from western Christian exceptionalism but I can’t prove it

[sarafangirlart]

This is from the ending of “I, Medusa” and it really rubs me the wrong way bc why does Athena get such a humiliating end but not Poseidon? And if anything Athena remained popular even after ppl stopped worshipping her, when Europeans were making personifications of their countries they modeled them after Athena.

And it immediately falls apart when you think about it for more than five seconds bc how did the gods exist before mortals did if they rely on mortals to exist and have power? How were mortals created if gods didn’t have powers before them?

[fostydosty]

This comes from Lucian’s Zeus Rants (2nd century), actually. It was a comedic satire or whatever, but nonetheless quite ancient.

In it, Zeus fears the atheists debating in the agora because it could convince mortals that the gods are meaningless do-nothings that have no affect on the mortal world; and by depriving them of sacrifice, this would seemingly make it true. Zeus calls all the gods together in great fear over the idea, packing the menagerie in together to find a solution. Hera, Athena, and Hermes are his inner circle and the first ones to notice he’s worried snd that he admits his fears to, and they assure him that whatever it is, they can handle it <3

hermes:

What ails you, Zeus, in lone soliloquy, To pace about all pale and scholar-like? Confide in me, take me to ease your toils: Scorn not the nonsense of a serving-man.

athena:

Yea, thou sire of us all, son of Cronus, supreme among rulers, Here at thy knees I beseech it, the grey-eyed Tritogeneia: Speak thy thought, let it not lie hid in thy mind, let us know it. What is the care that consumeth thy heart and thy soul with its gnawing?

Hera:

[…] Do you suppose we don’t know the reason of your anguish? […] I know that the sum and substance of your troubles is a love-affair; I don’t shriek and scream, though, because I am used to it, as you have already affronted me many a time in this way.

Sidenote thank you Lucian for giving us so much good Hera rep across your writings, I love how chill she is about his lovers here, and how Not Chill she is about people insulting Hephaestus in the Dialogues 💞💞💞 she might be able to look passed cheating on her, but insult her baby and she will NOT let that shit slide

Zeus:

[…] Why, Hera, the circumstances of the gods are as bad as they can be, and as the saying goes, it rests on the edge of a razor whether we are still to be honoured and have our due on earth or are actually to be ignored completely and count for nothing. […] Why, Hera, Timocles the Stoic and Damis the Epicurean had a dispute about Providence yesterday (I don’t know how the discussion began) in the presence of a great many men of high standing, and it was that fact that annoyed me most. Damis asserted that gods did not even exist, to say nothing of overseeing or directing events, whereas Timocles, good soul that he is, tried to take our part. Then a large crowd collected and they did not finish the conversation; they broke up after agreeing to finish the discussion another day, and now everybody is in suspense to see which will get the better of it and appear to have more truth on his side of the argument. You see the danger, don’t you? We are in a tight place, for our interests are staked on a single man, and there are only two things that can happen—we must either be thrust aside in case they conclude that we are nothing but names, or else be honoured as before if Timocles gets the better of it in the argument.

Hera:

A dreadful situation, in all truth, and it wasn’t uncalled for that you ranted over it, Zeus.

Zeus:

[…] Come now, Hermes and Hera and Athena, what can we do? You too, you know, must do your share of the planning.

It also is the first recorded example, that I’m aware of, of the gods explicitly being made to look like whatever their worshippers viewed them as. Helios was 100 feet tall and had to lean down to listen to Zeus in an assembly bc he was the ever-bronze Colossus of Rhodes (Hermes kicked him out of the front row bc he was taking up all the viewing space). Aphrodite was of parian marble bc of the work of Praxiteles, rather than being “golden” Aphrodite, which was an irony that Hermes noted. Presumably all of the gods looked like their most famous statues and paintings.

Hera was probably the chryselephantine Polyclitus statue, of which it was said he made because he was the only mortal Hera ever sat down in front of to be depicted as she truly was (this was noted in the Greek Anthology). This could also be interpreted as implicitly saying the gods looked exactly as their most famous statues do because they appear before their artists to inspire their depictions. Chicken or the egg type beat.

If someone wants to read Zeus Rants, I recommend Loeb’s copy of it (LUCIAN, The Downward Journey or The Tyrant. Zeus Catechized. Zeus Rants. The Dream or The Cock. Prometheus. Icaromenippus or The Sky-man. Timon or The Misanthrope. Charon or The Inspectors. Philosophies for Sale). There’s a lot of niche references in it (like Zeus quoting lines of his from the Iliad or Odyssey, or the various plays) that’ll get missed in a regular degular translation.

Lucian is an enigmatic figure who is hard to figure out and pin an actual philosophy onto. His works definitely feel, to me, like a modern centrist who “makes fun of everybody equally,” though he’s been identified as a Skeptic by modern classicists. His works were wildly popular in antiquity and we have more from him than almost any other ancient Greek writer, with 80~ complete works of his preserved for us.

[fostydosty]

The cult of Demeter and Persephone forbading their priests (and discouraging their worshippers) from even TOUCHING pomegranates is so sad and poetic. It was literally described as being akin to touching a dead body, in terms of how soul-defiling it was. Thus was their shared hatred for the daughter-stealing fruit.

Ironically it was Hera’s favorite fruit tho and she encouraged her priests and followers to grow, hold, and eat them. They were integral to the Heraean Mystery religion of Argos.

[fostydosty]

Adding to this, this neohellenist discusses the concept (I read it from Porphyry directly, but hearing it from another pagan might be helpful)

Because I hope some of you are partaking in the Eleusinian Mysteries with us these coming days, at least a portion of this week's posts wil