I am too old for your bullshit

Gabriel / He-Him / 38 / OSDD

[gabriel-rants]

Don’t tell someone they’re “too much” for you. Don’t tell someone they have “too many” issues. No one is forcing anyone to listen or help. If you can’t, just tell the person instead of making someone doubt speaking to anyone about any issue ever again. It’s as simple as, “I’m sorry that you’re having these issues but I’m not in a place to help.” Or any variant so someone KNOWS that you can’t deal with venting etc. Say it, outright. If you say nothing that’s not their fault they kept venting.

[gabriel-rants]

System Update

Life is hectic I'm busy that's about it this blog isn't dead I promise I am just too tired to deal with endinos lmao

[gabriel-rants]

That's just the frustrating thing-- they ARE a mod there, so I'm honestly debating if I'll stay in there or not.... one of our alters was really getting alone with people in there (and they dont talk much) but if people think those things can just be combined in there idk if it's a good place to stay (and also ty ty for that offer I'll keep that in mind)

They ARE a mod?? God. That makes it a little tougher.I think just weighing the pros and cons of staying would be good, like writing out a list with your alters’ inputs and all.If they think that Tulpamancers and Endos can be in DID or OSDD spaces then it’s...Big HMMM hours. None of them are related at all and should have their own separate spaces, and if you think you could even possibly be Endogenic, then stay out of DID and OSDD spaces, it’s that simple.

[gabriel-rants]

Someone in a group I'm in said either they're OSDD or "an endogenic system with a few traumagenic alters" because "only some of the alters cause amnesia" and "we have tulpae too" and I just..... I'm so tired I'm just trying to get help and support until I can go back to therapy and get my shit figured out.... I wouldnt be mad about it so much bc mods allow endos there but they were putting it explicitly in the DID discussion room and I'm just so tired

Hey there! If you ever need some support you’re free to send me a DM or something! I know what it’s like waiting for therapy.In other news, if they think they’re endogenic then that’s a them thing and they shouldn’t be in the DID chat. You cannot be endogenic with “a few traumagenic alters” or Traumagenic “with a tulpa” That’s just not how things work. Tulpas and Alters are separate things, and Endogenic and Traumagenic is specifically under the alter category.They should be aware of where they are chatting, and if it continues I would say contact the mods if you are comfortable doing so. They should know what spaces they do and don’t belong in. Tulpamancers and Endogenics do not belong in DID or OSDD spaces.

[notdeadjustgettingoffline-deact]

i think the reason pluralgang really likes making lgbt comparisons is solely bc of how it makes “”exclustionists”” look. it makes us look like horrid oppressors and not trauma victims trying to defend our disorder that’s constantly being dismissed as not real. it also further pushes their “let’s demedicalize a disorder” without explicitly saying it.

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

Absolutely that’s it. Recontextualizing it like that makes it look like we are the bad guys who hate x minority group… even though we are the minority group.

[gabriel-rants]

The way the mother treats Lance is horrible and sometimes I want to cuss her out but I know that would help nobody.

I'm tired of only being able to do so much to help. And I'm tired of people not thinking the emotional and mental abuse she puts Lance through isn't "traumatic" etc. It pisses me off so much.

[discoursedingo]

I actually have no issue with the existence of communities for people who say they have “naturally occurring” multiplicity that was not caused by trauma. 

There are communities for all kinds of people who hold beliefs that are different from mine. Getting angry that they exist makes about as much sense as getting angry about the existence of The Flat Earth Society. I don’t care what they do or what they believe as long as they leave me alone and they aren’t causing me any harm. 

There are boundaries though. 

When self-identified endogenic systems demand space or a voice in designated DID/OSDD spaces, that crosses the line. 

The larger problem though is when endogenic systems start advocating the re-conceptualization of DID/OSDD as a naturally occurring phenomenon. This crosses the line in a much more dangerous way. 

When the pluralgang advocates the re-conceptualization of DID/OSDD as non-pathological they are heading down a dangerous path that ends in DID/OSDD being removed from the DSM and ICD. Given how much we already fight to have our disorders recognized as legitimate and how much we struggle to find mental health professionals who take us seriously, this is disastrous. 

We already have skeptics saying “DID is not a real disorder” and now we have pluralgang saying “You’re right, DID is not really a disorder”. 

The message it sends to people living with DID/OSDD is just as dangerous. 

If DID/OSDD isn’t really a disorder, then you don’t need real mental health help for it either. You don’t need to see a professional licensed therapist to help you deal with your trauma, just pay this unlicensed “life coach” to teach you about how to get along as a plural system. (This is a real thing that happened!)

Endogenics who advocate for the re-conceptualization of multiplicity as a whole are not harmless. They are like anti-vaxxers re-conceptualizing measles as “just a cold with a little rash”. And like anti-vaxxers who downplay the seriousness of illnesses, leading to people avoiding needed medical care, this sub-group of endogenics downplays the seriousness of DID/OSDD in a way that leads to people avoiding needed mental health care. 

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

Thank you well said. I wish they’d stop playing victim and acting like what they are doing is harmless it absolutely isn’t and it DOES affect us when they try to claim DID is just a subset of their experiences and needs to be redefined even if they have their “own spaces”. If they want us to stop “bothering” them they need to stop trying to redefine DID/OSDD and act like it won’t affect us because it absolutely does!! Their community seems to just be so “all inclusive” that they don’t allow boundaries in any capacity and that extreme end of the spectrum is so harmful too.

[gabriel-rants]

What the actual fuck? I’m. I’m sorry?

It’s called a disorder for a reason. Your brain is not supposed to be multiple. Your brain is not supposed to have alters.

“Coolest neurodivergencies” Are you? Serious? It’s not cool. It’s not fun and games. DID and OSDD are disorders because it’s more than alters. It’s dissociation, time loss, memory loss and whole lot of other shit.

[palindromepinball]

Hey real quick y’all are aware that this person is either a troll or did not word this well at all, and either way is not supported by the system comm on Twitter, right? Like please use your head, see how the post has almost no reactions, and stop trying to create conflict by using one Twitter post. I Y’all need to stop trying to cherry pick things to make folks you don’t understand look bad. 

It’s like if I say I don’t think fictives are valid are y’all gonna be like “fuck inclsuive systems don’t think fictives are valid y’all hear that?” (I absolutely think fictives are valid btw I’m just making a point). Like we ain’t a hivemind we just have a similar experience in our brain didn’t make us one person for whatever reason 

[gabriel-rants]

See but it's still in your tag, in your space and no one is saying anything about it.

By letting is just exist without opposition it seems that it is accepted. Saying nothing is the same thing as saying "this isnt an issue" or "this is something we agree with"

And this isn't the first tweet I've seen having views like these. As far as I've seen one of the most vocal voices in pluralgang wants to stop using the word "disorder" which is utterly ridiculous. It's a disorder for a reason. No one is SUPPOSED to be multiple. It's not the norm. Its a neurological condition induced by trauma and the brain's inability to properly form a cohesive sense of self because it it.

[dissociativesalt]

[gabriel-rants]

What the actual fuck? I'm. I'm sorry?

It's called a disorder for a reason. Your brain is not supposed to be multiple. Your brain is not supposed to have alters.

"Coolest neurodivergencies" Are you? Serious? It's not cool. It's not fun and games. DID and OSDD are disorders because it's more than alters. It's dissociation, time loss, memory loss and whole lot of other shit.

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

H-How is it gaslighting to say you have to actually fit the criteria of DID/OSDD to have a system….. t-that’s not what gaslighting means… it’s like claiming someone is being gaslighted to be told they can’t have ADHD without attention issues or can’t have BPD without an unstable sense of self… w-what

(Also what’s the correlation between the points)

[gabriel-rants]

And this is what I mean by the absolute denial of endo systems actually having trauma. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Trauma causes DID and OSDD and saying you have the symptoms of a disorder and then denying it and the trauma associated with it is honestly wild to me. Like, in order to heal from trauma you have to acknowledge it happened? I really don’t understand these kind of people.

[gabriel-rants]

Sometimes people are absolute idiots I’m fucking cackling. “I’m in a relationship with you but I don’t have to care about you or your feelings hurr gurr” Like dumbass that’s exactly what a relationship is??? Even if you have shit in your life going on, let your partners try and help? Let them know what’s going on? Like. Honestly be considerate of other people you fuckhole. Don’t go around breaking people’s hearts just because you’re a self centered cunt. I understand it can be hard for your little brain to realize that you’re not the all important lord of the world but maybe you should try. Your head is so far up your ass you’re talking shit.

[wearepolyfragmented-blog]

I’ve talked about this before (not on here), but another big point I want to make on things that bother me with “inclusive plural communities” that involve tulpamancers, endogenics, etc. is how dangerously they misinterpret and summarize what being multiple is to others and how that misleads people with DID/OSDD away from even recognizing they have it.

I notice their definitions always boil down to “you are part of this community if you feel you have more than one person in your head” which can mean not only so many things that have zero to do with having a fragmented sense of self that also involve experiences like literally roleplaying, being a writer, kinning, or imaginary friends (which is another discussion), but it also is extremely misleading for what a lot of people with DID/OSDD experience.

YES, some of us experience our DID/OSDD as having “others in our head” and those who do are valid, but for most of us, that’s not the main or noticeable symptom because DID is so covert for a lot of us. For us, I only experience my DID with clear cut alters who I can talk to maybe 2% of the time when dissociative barriers are down for a brief period. Otherwise, I went my entire life never knowing anything was wrong. The first time I ever saw the concept of “other selves in your body” even though I was textbook DID I immediately thought “I could never have that, that could never be me” because I did not think I had alters and didn’t ever see them. They were there, but I did not recognize them nor have the tools to so those communities did not feel like they were for me. Eventually I was one of the people who came to terms with my DID through others means: Noticing my time loss, extreme shift in opinions, erratic behavior that led to me seeing a dissociative specialist who was able to diagnose me. But it was NEVER “oh there’s another person hanging out in my head”. In fact most of my alters didn’t make themselves known until AFTER diagnosis when they finally were allowed to acknowledge themselves as separate which we couldn’t do all my life for survival and to keep suspicion down.

AND YET, a lot of these “inclusive plural communities” ONLY fixate on the symptom of alters. All they talk about is the alters, to them, it’s all about the alters. The alters, which are only one symptom and usually the most covert one, are their fixation point and introduction and defining part of their communities to where you feel out of place if you just live your life not constantly talking about it. And that’s where the fetishistic side of it comes in.

Inclusive Plural Communities all define multiplicity/plurality in a way that allows so many who actually are multiple to miss that they are, and so many who aren’t multiple to think that they are. And this is because most of us DON’T have that experience of just having people hang out in our head in whatever that means. There’s hardly any discussions in these spaces on how being multiple affects day to day life and mostly just discussion around their alters, their names names, and how different they are from each other. It’s dangerous, it’s damaging. That is where you know this community is full of people who really, don’t get it.

I’m sick of these communities defining multplicity by JUST the alters. It makes people like me feel isolated to only present like a singlet because that is how my brain hides us. Because when that seems to be all they care about, it’s obvious they have no respect for DID/OSDD and how covert it can be for many and how most of the experiences AREN’T about just talking to people in your head.

It’s sort of hard to articulate myself more concisely, but I think I got my point across.

[gabriel-rants]

DID and OSDD is more than just alters. Sure alters come along with it but there’s also the dissociation, loss of time and memory etc.

The thing with Endogenic, Tulpa etc. Communities is that all they focus on is the alters? And alters only form due to trauma and the developing personality of a child splitting and becoming seperate states rather than one fully emotionally rounded person. And further splits are caused later in life after the initial split due to severe stress or more trauma.

Not to mention when you find Endo support blogs all they seem to spit out is “You’re valid” over and over, whereas DID and OSDD support blogs have actual advice etc. For navagating an actually pretty severe dissociation and personality disorder.

Also there needs to be seperate spaces for Endos and DID/OSDD people. They have different needs and environments. Especially because DID and OSDD is heavily trauma based. Also there tends to be a lot of denying trauma in Endo communities? Like if you have childhood trauma why isn’t that a probable cause for your system instead of it just spontaneously existing? If something was enough to traumatize you, then it’s enough. Period. No trauma olympics.

[thelunastusco]

Not here to start a fight, just to try and point out some things.

1. DID/OSDD aren’t separate and apart from endogenic communities. It is possible to be endogenic and have DID/OSDD, if you fit the criteria. DID/OSDD criteria itself does not at all specify that the system came from the trauma that caused the disorder.

2. DID, at least, is diagnosed by distress/lack of function, some type of amnesia, and the presence of other identities. So… yeah, it’s more than alters, but if there weren’t any alters it wouldn’t be DID. It’d be something else. The presence of alters, parts, etc, is essential to a DID diagnosis.

3. A focus on system members isn’t just true for endogenic and tulpa communities. Traumagenic and DID/OSDD communities focus heavily on system members, too. For good reason. A huge part of healing, or just building a better life, for a lot of system is learning about who’s in the system and how we can all help each other. There are other issues to focus on, like fighting stigma and increasing resources for systems that need it, but in the end a lot of topics circle back to system members and improving communication, learning about each other, tips for working together, etc. That’s not unique to only part of the community.

4. Plenty of endogenic and endogenic friendly blogs have advice other than “you’re valid”. Seen it plenty. A lot of the reason there are support blogs and a lot of “you’re valid” posts is because there’s a small but vocal minority– especially on tumblr– that spend their free time mocking, threatening, and belittling endogenic systems (and even their non-endogenic supporters). So yeah, it’s a message a lot of people seem to need to hear. That’s true for a lot of systems, not just endogenic ones. We live in a society where we’re all constantly told we’re not real, and if we ARE real, we’re dangerous. Validation is important.

5. DID/OSDD isn’t a personality disorder.

6. Yes, there needs to be separate spaces for systems with DID/OSDD, endogenic systems without DID/OSDD, traumagenic systems without DID/OSDD… but again, there’s going to be overlap. And there already are a lot of spaces specifically for certain types of systems, and systems with a diagnosis. No one is going to argue there shouldn’t be sparate spaces. The argument is that, plurality/multiplicity in general is not a traumagenic OR a DID/OSDD only space, so “common” areas– tags, forums, communities, etc– should be kept peaceful and inclusive.

7. We existed before our trauma began, that’s the long and short of it. The same is true for a lot of other endogenic systems. We, as a community, don’t deny our trauma any more than any other traumatized group. We just maintain that we were not caused by it, often because we existed before it. Yes, agreed, that any kind of trauma is traumatic enough to form a traumagenic system or for DID/OSDD to form. But it’s just not the root of it for some of us.

We have been diagnosed with DID. We are endogenic. We existed before our trauma; our trauma left us dysfunctional and in a lot of trouble. We’re still healing. But being endogenic doesn’t make us any less disordered, and having a DID diagnosis doesn’t make us any less endogenic. We’re not the only systems like this out there, and there are other non-endogenic systems that also don’t have DID/OSDD. The spaces overlap a lot more than people think.

In the end we just all want basically the same things. To be seen as real, to be treated with respect, to be able to access the resources we may need to access, and to have a supportive and healthy community. That comes when we all work together. Yes, we all need separate spaces, but we also need a peaceful united community, too, because we’re stronger like that.

[thesorority]

We also have, as a community, learned the danger that can come from pushing people too hard to find a trauma history. The whole “you have trauma, you just don’t remember it” thing has harmed a lot of people.

If people say they don’t have a trauma history, we shouldn’t be pressuring them to find one.

The best we can do tell people to not rule it out and keep an open mind; because they may very well remember it; they may simply not recognize it for what it is.

Ultimately it comes down to belief. Whether or not any trauma contributed to any system’s plurality is up to them, and they are responsible for determining if it is true for them.

-Liberty

[gabriel-rants]

1. As far as I've read and understand seperate alter states develop because of trauma hindering emotional and pyschological growth of a child.

2. Yes but I'm talking about people who only have the alter part and not the dissociation or lack of functioning etc.

3. I understand that but I mean they have almost a very unhealthy focus on *strictly* alters and yes focus on alters is part of the DID and OSDD community but not to the degree I've seen in Endo communities

4. Again this is just personal to what I've seen and that tends to be the only Endo support blogs I've found is just the reiteration of "You're valid" and sure it's needed in some states but the overuse of it is something thay just kinda makes me go hmm

5. You're right that was my mis-wording I still can't remember the word I meant, my apologies

6. I am having trouble seeing how someone can both be DID/OSDD and Endogenic? As far as I know, as stated in 1, alters come from the fracturing of a childs psyche and it reforming badly due to trauma

7. As stated in 6 Endogenic systems are something that's hard for me to wrap my head around

And it's not about pushing people to discover trauma etc. Its about the fact I've seen so many Endos straight up push the possibility away when it clearly could be a cause why to their multiplicity and could help with understanding their own system or with recovery etc.

@trashcancollective-plural @thesorority

[gabriel-rants]

DID and OSDD is more than just alters. Sure alters come along with it but there's also the dissociation, loss of time and memory etc.

The thing with Endogenic, Tulpa etc. Communities is that all they focus on is the alters? And alters only form due to trauma and the developing personality of a child splitting and becoming seperate states rather than one fully emotionally rounded person. And further splits are caused later in life after the initial split due to severe stress or more trauma.

Not to mention when you find Endo support blogs all they seem to spit out is "You're valid" over and over, whereas DID and OSDD support blogs have actual advice etc. For navagating an actually pretty severe dissociation and personality disorder.

Also there needs to be seperate spaces for Endos and DID/OSDD people. They have different needs and environments. Especially because DID and OSDD is heavily trauma based. Also there tends to be a lot of denying trauma in Endo communities? Like if you have childhood trauma why isn't that a probable cause for your system instead of it just spontaneously existing? If something was enough to traumatize you, then it's enough. Period. No trauma olympics.