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@getlostgatekeepers-blog
What I wanted when I, a transgender pansexual, was coming out: Acceptance, support, people to listen to me and share experiences with, friendship.
What cis aro/ace people want when coming out: Acceptance, support, people to listen to them and share experiences with, friendship.
Discoursers: Gay people are thrown off of buildings so fuck off there's nothing here for you we have totally different needs.
lmao I’m ace discoursers are amazing
“don’t use bi/trans people as pawns”
I’m sorry pointing out that you have shitty definitions and rhetoric is not the same thing as using people as pawns
want us to stop saying you sound like terfs/bi discoursers and your definitions exclude more that just “cishet” ace/aro peeps, and pretty much ignore history?
stop doing those things then
What definitions exclude LGBT people?
What shared history do we have?
The definitions I’m talking about are the fact that most aphobe discoursers say the “LGBT” community is and has always defined by being trans and experiencing SGA, which excludes people who are nb and don’t identify as trans, bi people who don’t experience “same gender attraction”, and intersex people. This border for the queer community is ahistorical and not very well thought out.
As for shared history, I recommend you look over these posts and this blog in general
http://historicallyace.tumblr.com/post/146262756292/where-were-you-when-a-history-of-asexual
http://historicallyace.tumblr.com/post/146268437437/where-were-you-when-a-history-of-asexual
http://historicallyace.tumblr.com/tagged/history
not even a year ago i saw so many posts about awful “bi tumblr” and now i see the exact same shit about “ace tumblr” you’re all transparent as fuck
except bi people are lgbt and cishet aces are not so ……..no. not sure exactly what you’re referring to wrt posts being awful towards bi people - as i haven’t been up to date on discourse until recently - but i assure you: the discourse about cishet aces not acknowledging that they’re straight has nothing to do with bi people
“bi people weren’t straight when they got called straight, but we’re right about aces this time so its not the same!!!1!”
I just… wanna remind people that asexuality was classed as a mental disorder by the DSM all the way up until 2013…. Because I feel like people don’t know this or like to ignore it because it doesn’t fit into their “asexual people don’t face discrimination” rhetoric.
Asexuality was only removed from the DSM in 2013. Please, know this and remember it.
asexuality is STILL in the DSM they still have a disorder that’s literally the definition of asexuality called “hypoactive sexual desire disorder” which is what they’ve always classified asexuality as. they just added a clause that said “if the patient IDs as ace it’s fine” but it’s not like the general population knows what asexuality is and people want to complain about how visibility is such a high priority for us jesus christ
Your regular reminder that visibility is an issue for a-spec folks because it’s the only way to stop pathologization.
Many people actually still think this is a mental disorder whether you identify as asexual or not
“I only support ace/aro people if they have attraction to people of the same gender as them or if they’re trans!”
A.) nonbinary people are often unable to be attracted to their same gender, as no one may have the same gender as them, and if you’re suggesting same sex instead of same gender then you’re a huge transphobe
B.) You’re excluding nonbinary people who don’t ID as trans, intersex people who need the same resources, poly/multi attracted people who aren’t attracted to their own gender.
C) you’re literally admitting you don’t care about the ace/aro part of someone’s identity. You are saying that that part doesn’t matter, that despite the hate they will receive from it, you don’t care. You only care if they have other qualities that make them ~gay enough~
you’re part of the reason Ace/aro people are terrified of coming out about that part of their identity, and you’re p hecking gross.
So I know that a lot of the response to discourse is not intended to be rude and is often just genuine confusion, so I’m going to outline the basic idea of what’s going on.
Why aren’t aromantic/asexual people lgbt?
The LGBT community was created to combat homophobia and transphobia. Obviously, to experience homophobia and transphobia you either have to experience sga (same/similar gender attraction) or not be cis. aro/ace people don’t automatically experience homophobia/transphobia, and if they do it is not because they are aro/ace.
On top of that, aro/ace people being in lgbt spaces often sucks up resources actual lgbt people need, so it really is harming us.
What resources?
Scholarships, funds, beds at homeless shelters, lgbt suicide hotlines, pride clubs and other safe spaces with limited space, food that’s handed out at lgbt centers and clubs, et cetera.
But some aro/ace people are trans/bi/pan/lesbians!
You’re right! Those people ARE lgbt, but it is not because they are aro/ace. It would be because they are trans/bi/pan/etc.
But the acronym is LGBTQIA!
The full acronym is ‘LGBT.’ Some people do add the “+” to be inclusive of nonbinary people who don’t identify as trans, along with pan/ply people who don’t want to be included under the “B.” But the “QIA” is not necessary.
-”Q” stands for “Queer” which is a slur that not everyone has reclaimed. While it is true that a lot of people DO identify themselves as queer, it is still potentially harmful to include it in the acronym as many lgbt people still rightfully see it as a harmful slur associated with violence.
-”I” stands for “Intersex,” and many intersex people have come forward saying that they do not automatically consider themselves lgbt for being intersex. Some intersex people identify as cis, and it is harmful to force all intersex people to identify as lgbt. intersex people can choose to include themselves in the community on a case-by-case basis, but it is harmful to include it in the acronym, as it makes it hard for intersex people to be taken seriously when they identify as cis.
What about the A?
The A originally stood for ally, to allow closeted people access to lgbt resources. It was not always actually included in the acronym, but it was generally understood that you could identify yourself as an ally and participate in community events without outing yourself.
The “A is for asexual” movement was started in the early 2000′s by a cishet man named David Jay. Jay is openly homophobic, (just one instance of this is his pride at being able to work “fag” into the lgbt acronym) and most of us find it deeply offensive that a cishet man forced us to include more cishets into a community that was specifically designed to be safe from cishets.
LGBT is for all identities that differ from heteronormativity!
This is not true. If LGBT accepted all identities that were seen as “other” by society, we would be supporting kinksters, pedophiles, rapists, etc.
Along with that, cishet aces do not differ from heteronormativity, they actively contribute to it. Het people don’t suffer from heteronormativity.
But ace/aro people are still queer!
Queer is a slur that was used against sga/mga (same/similar gender attraction and multiple gender attraction) people and trans people. Many people have personally reclaimed it and started identifying as queer, but ace/aro people have no claim to the word.
You cannot reclaim a slur if it was never taken from you and used against you violently in the first place.
But “straight” means heterosexual AND heteroromantic! Cishet aros/aces aren’t straight!
“straight” means you are exclusively attracted to the opposite binary gender, (i.e. a binary girl being exclusively attracted to binary boys, and vice versa.) It doesn’t matter if this is sexual attraction, romantic attraction, or both. Heteroromantic asexual people are straight, and heterosexual aromantic people are straight.
If you call bi aces bi, and ace lesbians lesbians, you can call straight aces straight.
ace people can’t be cishet, because they are ace.
Cisgender heteroromantic asexual. Cishet.
But ace people are just as oppressed as other LGBT identities!
This is…also not true. Ace people are not systematically oppressed for their identity. You are not going to be kicked out for being ace, you are not going to be fired for being ace, you are not going to be beaten up for being ace or be killed for being ace.
This is aphobic!
The term “Aphobia” suggests that again, ace people are oppressed. As outlined above, you are not systematically oppressed for being ace.
Ace people face corrective rape!
First of all, “corrective rape” is a term lesbians coined to describe their experiences with being raped to “fix” them. Ace people should not be using this term.
Secondly, the “corrective rape” ace people face is almost always rooted in misogyny, not aphobia. It is almost exclusively a case of a female/female aligned victim, I have yet to see enough cases of male/male aligned asexual people being raped for being ace.
Telling ace people they aren’t lgbt is gatekeeping.
Gatekeeping is a term that trans women used to describe being cut off from healthcare. To use it in this context is gross. Telling straight cis people that they aren’t welcome in safe spaces from straight cis people isn’t gatekeeping.
This is just recycled biphobia!
Biphobia is a legitimate issue within the lgbt community, to compare bi people to cishet aces is super offensive to bi people because we actually face oppression from straight people and discrimination within the lgbt community, we would really appreciate not being used as a token in your argument as most of us disagree with you.
aro/ace people are valid, stop telling us we aren’t.
Sure, you’re valid. Nobody is saying you aren’t-in fact i don’t think I’ve seen one person say aro/ace people aren’t real or something.
“you aren’t lgbt” =/= “you aren’t valid.“
aro/ace people deserve a community!
Sure! the lgbt community just isn’t the right one. This community was created out of hard work, if you want a community to talk about your experiences, to specifically help aro/ace people, you have to create one.
tl;dr aro/ace people are valid, but you aren’t queer and you aren’t lgbt by virtue of being aro/ace.
I appreciate the tone this post is trying to take but it every argument it makes has been debunked thoroughly by the ace/aro community. But even so, it apparently all bears repeating, maybe all in the same place.
It’ll be exhausting to try and debunk all of these all over again, because as has been said on many occasions, one of the functions of oppression is to keep the oppressed continuously reiterating and defending their point, their right to acceptance, over and over again, so that they do not have the time or energy or resources to make gains in other areas. But I’m not asexual or aromantic, I’m bisexual and genderqueer, so let’s pretend I still have the energy to at least try to tell you why you’re wrong.
Asexuals are part of the LGTQIA community and always have been. Generations of queer-identified individuals have included them, and the recent attempt at exclusion is occurring by-and-large among people who don’t know that history. As stated in the link that opens this paragraph, the term ‘bisexual’ used to be a broad umbrella for a bunch of identities in the queer community that weren’t gay or lesbian, and asexuals were part of that (hence part of why the acronym used to only be four letters). To say they don’t have any right to the term ‘queer’ is thus wrong for a lot of reasons, which are described as this post progresses.
Also, if we’re talking about terms we should not use, the term “SGA” is gross and originated in conversion therapy. It’s not a good term to use and it’s only very recently entered usage with the LGBTQIA community, and almost exclusively as a means of deny the legitimacy of asexual and aromantic individuals. I, as a bisexual individual, find the term incredibly uncomfortably and would rather be called almost anything else. The term has homophobic origins and has not been reclaimed by the majority of the community, and so the broad usage of it is far more oppressive than the use of the (predominately) reclaimed slur queer.
Further, while the LGBTQIA community isn’t for kinksters or rapists like you mention, it also did not develop solely for individuals who experience attraction to those of the same gender. It developed as a haven for all of those whose identity and orientation (not kinksters or rapists, but identity and orientation, which is very different), falls outside of the heteronormative mold. If it were only for people who experience attraction to those of their same gender, that would exclude a lot of trans people, and by modern definitions, a lot of bi people, not to mention that the term ‘SGA’ (aside from being homophobia and biphobic in its origins) also inherently erases nonbinary identities. Beyond that, it’s really disgusting to compare ace and aro people to pedophiles and rapists. I could take all day to list the reasons why that’s wrong, but I trust anyone reading this to realize that it’s gross on many levels.
The term gatekeeping is not a trans-specific term, and has existed for eons to encompass the notion that one group is limiting access to a given thing. The example in the definition that google provides is about cultural gatekeeping at Wal-Mart, of all things. Find a source on it being a term used exclusively and with a specific meaning within the trans community and I’ll reconsider that, but I’ve seen trans people using it to describe what’s going on in the LGBTQIA community against ace and aro individuals, not to mention that it’s been used before to refer to what has happened against bisexuals. But if the term is in fact transphobic to use for any reason, the fact remains that there are individuals in the community attempting to deny access to ace and aro individuals on false presumptions and doing so in a manner that is oppressive.
On the subject of terminology, although the term corrective rape was absolutely coined by the lesbian community, what else would you like to call it when individuals are raped due to their sexual orientation? If you want to call it something else, that’s perfectly okay, but the fact remains that this experience happens to a lot of asexual individuals. And for the love of god, stop talking over asexual people who say, directly, that their corrective rape has occurred due to their orientation and not their gender. Talking over a rape survivor about their own experiences is disgusting, and if its a woman who is the survivor, and given that the majority of asexual rape survivors are women or AFAB, you’re also being misogynistic by trying to define her experiences and talking over her. You’re aphobic either way for talking over someone, but misogyny occurs when you try to repackage women’s experiences in a way that fits your narrative and not their own. Stop doing it.
Also, those false presumptions? You’re assuming that ace and aro individuals are cissexual heterosexual. They are not. They are not heterosexual at all, they are asexual, so stop calling them straight. Even if they’re heteromantic, they’re not straight. And what about an asexual aromantic? They seem to fail to exist by your measure? And it’s also literally oppressive to call a queer individual straight. I know that your post mentions that some individuals in the ace community may be trans or bi or another queer identity, but it’s horrific to invalidate one identity to prop up another. An asexual person is valid regardless of whether they are trans or nonbinary or biromantic or not. Your support of only half of someone is reductive, oppressive, and flies in the face of what you purport to want to accomplish. No asexual or aromantic person is straight, so stop calling them that. Period.
On that note, aphobia is a great deal like biphobia and transphobia. This is out of the mouths of bi and trans people. Not all bi and trans people will agree, but many do. I do, as someone who is bi and NB. As soon as I saw aphobic posts, I went “wow this feels familiar” because it is. All gatekeeping looks similar, once you strip it down to it’s core. And the majority of people making the comparison are bi or trans themselves, and because of that, it’s not biphobic or transphobic at all to make the comparison, and it’s not a token defense at all. To minimize it to that is to ignore the very real issue going on, which is that the LGTQIA community has a tendency to try and redefine ‘acceptable’ levels of queerness over and over again in a way that grants power to those doing the oppressing (and I don’t mean any specific identity, I literally mean to the people who benefit by spewing aphobic ‘discourse’ and vitriol). Whenever we see a community that has closed it’s doors to some of it’s own members, we must ask ourselves who benefits, and the reasons for it. Come to your own conclusions about that though, mine are too dark to get into here.
Speaking of benefits, that resources argument that has been touted a lot? Fails to hold water. As has been pointed out from a simple logical basis – if they didn’t need the resources, they wouldn’t be using them. Asexuals and aromantics face oppression, and the fear that aphobes have about them ‘taking’ resources from the rest of the community implies that we have a greater right to resources based on our orientation or gender than other people who are oppressed for their orientation and/or gender. When… we’re supposed to be about supporting those who are oppressed for their orientation and/or gender. So it just… doesn’t logically follow.
“But they aren’t oppressed?” You know what, I’ll let the ace and aro community speak for themselves on this one. You can look at the posts on @acephobia-is-real for ace individuals who have experienced corrective rape (which, yeah, the term we might disagree on the usage of, but that’s what they call it and I’ll support that unless a better is supplanted). You might also want to this post about the term corrective rape and it’s origins, not to mention this simple explanation of systematic oppression.
As for “who is oppressed more” … we don’t need to do that. We don’t need to say who faces the most/worst oppression for oppression at all to be valid, do we? Oppression is oppression. It’s known that asexuals are discriminated against, even within the community. So as issues of rape, suicidal ideation, housing issues, mental health problems, and intersections with other identities exacerbate all of these, the oppression of the asexual and aromantic community continues to be a systematic issue, one that we can fight alongside them, or one that we can help create. I’d rather be on the side of the oppressed and not their oppressors, when given the option. (I’d also like to point out that acknowledging they need a community of their own, which you do in your post, inherently acknowledges that they’re oppressed, contradicting your earlier point that they aren’t oppressed).
tl;dr - asexual and aromantic individuals are part of the LGBTQIA community and always have been, regardless of the ways that acronym has changed over time. They are oppressed (as acknowledged by yourself) and are discriminated against within the lgbtqia community, as acknowledged by many other members of the community, in a manner similar to oppression that those other members of the community have faced.
Recommended reading:
https://acephobia-is-real.tumblr.com/post/147686752868/lestermygaard-wetwareproblem-ewaphobes
https://acephobia-is-real.tumblr.com/post/147550248049/prokopetz-one-of-the-more-perplexing-habits-of
https://acephobia-is-real.tumblr.com/post/147135909186/arionwind-thats-another-thing-i-was-musing
http://phynali.tumblr.com/post/141942913639/wesencouncilerrandboy-sobercommunist-i-wanna
http://phynali.tumblr.com/post/147157515284/i-feel-like-as-a-closeted-person-i-hold-something
http://ayo-tofu.tumblr.com/post/147550641176/things-to-remember
https://acephobia-is-real.tumblr.com/post/146553626410/someone-asked-you-for-a-source-and-all-you-said-is
http://ayo-tofu.tumblr.com/post/146564659966/fuckyeahasexual-courteousmingler
literally the entirety of the @acephobia-is-real blog
GET REKT
the ace discourse tag is so yikes. how can ace people be straight if they’ve never felt sexual attraction?? what is this stupid ass heteronormativity?¿
Recycled Bi Discourse
“People used to think bi people benefited from straight privilege, but they don’t. Neither do cishet asexuals.”
Cishet aces see plenty of orientations like theirs in the media (straight relationships, and if they don’t have sex, ones where no sex is shown) (unlike bi people)
Cishet aces aren’t called f*g/d*ke/other slurs for dating any person they love (unless that person in trans*, in which case that’s transphobia, not a result of being ace) (unlike bi people)
Cishet aces are allowed to get married to the person they love in any religion or denomination (unlike bi people)
Cishet aces have never been victims of a mass shooting because of their sexuality (unlike bi people)
Cishet aces did not found the lgbt community (unlike bi people)
Cishet aces have been legally allowed to marry anyone of age they’re attracted to for decades (unlike bi people) (centuries, if the person they love is the same race)
Basically, bi people don’t have straight privilege and het! aces! do!!
good post but don’t use the asterisk after trans
Ok some very USA/western centric points here that are just…not true…not at all, but let’s jut tackle this all.
1.) there is little to no representation of ace/aro people. Not once have I herd the word asexual or aromantic, just like I have not ever heard the word bisexual used to describe a person. An asexual person in a relationship doesn’t just “not have sex” their experience is completely different from other people when it comes to dating/relationships.
2.) were back at “het partnered people”
Yikes™
First off – as a bi person, this is really destructive way of talking about privilege? Like a bi person experiences oppression for not fitting heterosexist norms, not because they might on an off chance experience homophobia. If all of my future relationships are with girls/ feminine presenting nb people I still experience biphobia, and aphobia, and I can’t fully benefit from heterosexism.
How lgbt+ someone is has never been determined by how people perceive their relationships. And yes…people do call you slurs, in fact often times they verbally/sexually harass you for not “fitting your partners needs.”
3.) have you not heard of required consummation of marriage?????????? In other countries (plus, historically, many European royal marriages, and some us states) if a couple is not having regular sex the marriage could be annulled. Over half of asexual people are sex repulsed and would not willingly consent to this.
Hell, even in the USA, people might suspect citizen/immigrant marriages to be faked if they believe the couple is not intimate, and is just faking being married to get one of the people papers. Imagine aromantic marriages.
Even if these laws are not directed at aro/ace people, they still directly affect us. Sodomy laws never explicitly said “gay men” but they were clearly intended to affect them.
4.) “cishet aces have never been victims of a mass shooting, unlike bi people.)” ok….this is shoddy, at best.
We live in a society where, historically, anyone orientation-wise that wasn’t heterosexual (and, by default, heteroromantic) had the possibility of being lynched. Do you honestly think that men and women who had no visible interest in being in sexual and romantic relationships with a married partner of a different gender weren’t burnt alive like the rest of us???????? The statistical probability - next to none, if not zero.
5.) I’m gonna ask @cistrendered about this one because fae are European and I don’t know the exact terminology used in various non-English speaking nations, but outside of the us, ace and aro people have been working with the lgbt+ community for years. In fact, in the USA we were under the “bi” umbrella for being “not straight, but not gay” because we didn’t have set definitions and words for ace/aro identities yet. (I’ll untag you if you want me to)
6.) already explained above
You want some examples of things cis that people with straight privilege have?
Having their entire orientation taught to them in schools and by society.
Not coercing themselves into having sex with people when they don’t want to. Not having other people coerce them into being intimate. Not being sexually assaulted/harassed at increased levels compared to asexual and romantic people. Having actual positive representation. Not having to come out to people. Not being absolutely terrified of coming out to people. Not having to worry about negative experiences when they come out. Not being subjected to corrective therapy or sexual assault with the explicit reason being their orientation.
Not being abused by their parents for their orientation. These are just a few examples, I’m sure their are many more.
Not being demonized for not experiencing romantic love or sexual attraction (“rom love is what makes us human! Sex is what makes us human, don’t be uncomfortable about it!” “That’s really gross that you’ll have sex but not date someone. You should be ashamed.” “What are you going to do when you get married? Other people need sex!”).
Anyways, as a biromantic homosexual arospec acespec lmao…no.
Hm, in Norway a-spec people are in the queer community, they are “skeiv”, and are an essential part of the “skeiv” movement. I’m a bifil (biphile) in Norwegian, and Norway takes a very different approach than what people seem to think everything is like. Afile/aseksuelle are skeiv and have been included since the begining in a lot of norwegian skeive and lhbti+ organisations. Such as the biggest organisations that have accomplished the most, queer youth and FRI, are both about marginalised orientations and gender identities.. and as far as I know, it’s like this in a lot of Europe too. I talked to a trans woman activist who’s a lot older than me, and she has always been involved with skeiv/lhbt+ movement in norway, and she said that it has always included “afile folk” (in english this basically can be translated into both asexual and aromantic). LGBT+ and queer did not start in USA, we got marriage equality before you, we got hate crime and discrimination laws before you, we got civil unions decades ago, USA is not the peak of LGBT+ activism and rights. In Norway the “skeiv” movement and the blietzers (norwegian socialist and communists) fought for lgbt+ rights, not some random americans that probably don’t even know what norway or scandinavia is. Like, my activism and my lived experience is about what i actually experience lol, so, yeah, it is quite a bold statement to act like one occurence in one out of like 190-200 countires spawned the idea of us wanting equality and human rights, while there have been activists outside usa for longer ago than the 70s.
There is nothing wrong with being aromantic.
There is nothing wrong with being asexual.
Turns out aces and aros are inherently LGBT+
life hack: don't define other people's sexual orientations or genders for them
Ive tried this and it works: 11/10 highly reccomend
discourser voice: i identified with these labels once and they turned out to be wrong for me which obviously means that they are evil and toxic and anyone who uses them is a homophobe
Allosexual priviledge does not exist. But the word allosexual is not bad or dirty.
Monosexual priviledge does not exist. But the word monosexual is not bad or dirty.
Stop taking away m-spec and a-spec peoples words just because some people use them in the wrong way.
Aces are so wonderful like...
You’re an ace of hearts? That’s lovely and you deserve a partner who treats you like that
You’re an ace of spades? That’s incredible, you will take over the world and fight with dragons on your side
You’re an ace of diamonds? That’s truly beautiful and one day you will share your diamonds with someone who sees all of that in you
You’re an ace of clubs? That’s awesome! You’re special and you’ll meet a person who’s as special as that to you
lmao I’m ace discoursers are amazing
“don’t use bi/trans people as pawns”
I’m sorry pointing out that you have shitty definitions and rhetoric is not the same thing as using people as pawns
want us to stop saying you sound like terfs/bi discoursers and your definitions exclude more that just “cishet” ace/aro peeps, and pretty much ignore history?
stop doing those things then
Ace/sga discourse is so fucking US-centered that it physically pains me. Like the world does not revolve around america and american history and neither does the lgbtqiap+ community ffs.
ya know the whole “asexuality shouldn’t be taught in sex ed/school cause teens are too young to know” literally sounds exactly like the arguments that get thrown at gay people lesbians, bisexuals, trans people, nb people. like literally the whole “they’re to young to know!!!” or “you’re to young to know!!” has literally been said to me by homophobes and transphobes. these are your rhetorical bedfellows you realize. You are literally recycling the same logic that has been used to discriminate against and silence our existence. people shouldn’t be punished for seeking knowledge and trying to understand themselves. saying ace/aro people or anyone for that matter are “too young” to know and explore they’re identities is literally one of the most asinine thing to come out of this discourse. It shows you don’t want to actually help people and protect the queer community. you just want to be the big bad bully for once.
