[thisbeautifuldelirium]

i cannot stop thinking about pre-canon Uther, Gauis, Ygraine, and Nimueh. bear with me here

here's what we Know:

Uther becomes king and marries Ygraine. Gauis and Nimueh are part of his court for ? years

Gauis smuggles Morgause (Vivienne/Gorlois's child) out of Camelot as a baby, for unknown reasons

Ygraine is infertile, so Uther asks Nimueh for help

Nimueh performs the spell, and warns Uther that it will result in a death, but Uther goes through with it anyway, and Ygraine dies

up until this point, magic is not yet illegal in Camelot, and this is the event that sets off the great purge

Uther persecutes all magic-users

Gaius stops practicing magic and Uther allows him to remain in Camelot

Vivienne has an affair with Uther, resulting in Morgana's birth, but Gorlois thinks she's his child

Uther tricks Balinor into trapping Kilgharrah under Camelot

(this all comes straight from the merlin wiki btw, so it SHOULD all be accurate)

okay. so. here's what's been plaguing my every waking moment:

did Uther have an issue with magic before he becomes king? because why would Nimueh and Gauis be allowed to practice magic IN HIS COURT if he did? or he was just slightly wary of it in the beginning, but wasn't quite as prejudiced, and he grew to hate it over time ???

why on EARTH does Gauis give Morgause over to the high priestesses???? it's most likely not because of her magic, because this happens before arthur's birth/the purge

Uther and Ygraine must trust Nimueh a LOT for her to cast that spell. and if she's been in Uther's court for years, i assume the three of them are friends, or were formerly friends. so, with that in mind: did Nimueh have a reason to kill Ygraine? did she truly not know which life the spell would take? did she apologize to Uther? was she just as heartbroken as him to lose her friend?

why does Uther allow Gauis to live, when he hunts literally EVERY OTHER MAGICIAN in the kingdom

AND why does Gauis agree???? Uther is committing literal genocide, and for SOME REASON Gaius accepts that, even though it's obvious he doesn't agree with Uther, and i need to know WHY.

why are Vivienne/Gorlois in Camelot so much? Morgause was in Camelot after her birth, and then Vivienne is there again when Morgana is conceived (obviously). the canonical reason for that is that Gorlois is out fighting, but don't they have their own castle and kingdom? why couldn't she have just stayed in her own kingdom? Vivienne/Gorlois/Uther/Ygraine must have been BEST friends, which would explain why Morgana then becomes Uther's ward, of all people

Balinor and Uther ALSO must have been friends before the purge started, because otherwise i feel there's no way Balinor could have been tricked into summoning Kilgharrah during the literal great purge

someone please engage with me about this because i'm losing my mind thinking of all the possibilities

[gildedpomegranates]

The only note I have on your timeline is that (as far as I know) the show never confirms WHEN Uther fathers Morgana. I've always assumed it happened before Arthur was born, mostly because it gives some legitimacy to Morgana's 'rightful heir' claim (as the firstborn—of course, she's a bastard AND a girl, which would delegitimize her). This is also influenced by the original Arthurian legends, where Morgana is older. However, considering BBC Merlin diverges significantly from the legends, this might not have much weight. So, ultimately inconclusive.

As to your questions, although most of this is speculation potentially influenced by personal bias:

Uther and Ygraine must trust Nimueh a LOT for her to cast that spell

I'm not sure how much trust factors into it. It seems a lot more like desperation. Uther needs an heir. He’s a conquering king, so he needed to establish his line of succession and cement his royal bloodline like… yesterday. We don’t know if he married for love or politics or some combination, but his wife is infertile, and divorce isn’t an option.

As for Ygraine, I mean… historically, women did not have a ton of autonomy. While BBC Merlin technically doesn't fit with any one historical period, it is not particularly accurate in its portrayals of female autonomy (which itself is very nuanced historical concept, as the powerless often adapt strategies). I say this to lend important context. Ygraine is queen, and therefore has the most power of any woman in the kingdom. However, the queen is still beholden to the king. It's up in the air how much say she had in what happened to her.

Personally, I do think she whole-heartedly agreed, and unlike Uther, I think she was fully aware that her life could be forfeit. Already, child-bearers during this time are at high risk, so the whole life-for-a-life concept isn't a foreign one.

and if she's been in Uther's court for years, i assume the three of them are friends, or were formerly friends.

It's unclear exactly how involved Nimueh was in the court. When Uther decides to use magic to have a son, Gaius is sent to retrieve Nimueh from the Isle of the Blessed. Although it's unclear if the high priestesses completely live on the Isle of the Blessed, or if it's the place they're taught and only return occasionally, it seems to me that if Nimueh WAS a part of Uther's court, then she would be living in Camelot and would not need to be retrieved. It's also unclear what exactly their 'friendship' entails. When confronting Uther, Nimueh claims she was his friend and was welcomed in Camelot. There is some ambiguity, but I took this to mean that she came to Camelot as a friend and ally and was welcomed, not that they had a pre-existing friendship.

did Nimueh have a reason to kill Ygraine? did she truly not know which life the spell would take?

Ultimately, with how little context the show gives us, it comes down to a he-said, she-said situation. I personally don't believe Nimueh has control over whose life is picked. She is a priestess not a god. Merlin believes Nimueh has control over this when he tries to give his life for Arthur's and his mother grows ill instead, but I honestly think that has more to do with his immortality. He couldn't die, so his sacrifice manifested in a different way. There is no concrete evidence that Nimueh has control over whose life, and nothing to suggest that she would target Ygraine in some way if she did.

why does Uther allow Gauis to live, when he hunts literally EVERY OTHER MAGICIAN in the kingdom

Despite the fact that Uther is kind of a hypocrite, using magic for his own gain and then lashing out because he misinterpreted and/or refused to accept the potential consequences?

Gaius was a trusted advisor and physician, and a friend to Uther. He advised against using magic for an heir, which Uther later comes to believe is the right decision. He is never presented as particularly magically powerful, and it's likely that the benefits of keeping Gaius around (his knowledge, both medical and magical, and his advice) outweighed the risk.

AND why does Gauis agree???? Uther is committing literal genocide, and for SOME REASON Gaius accepts that, even though it's obvious he doesn't agree with Uther, and i need to know WHY.

It's so murky what the course of events was here. Did Uther imprison first, ask questions later? Did he offer an ultimatum, believing early-on that some magic-users were savable? Did Gaius immediately offer to turn on magic-users to save his life? Very unclear.

As for why Gaius agrees, what else would he do? This is a feudalistic monarchy with Uther in a position above the law. He IS the law. What he says goes. Gaius agrees or he dies. He could run away to keep practicing magic and/or out of a refusal to be complicit in Uther's genocide, but that's a hard life—a life of endless persecution.

So he either completely forfeits his safety by running away, or he grovels, abandons magic and magic-users—all to continue living a life of relative safety and comfort compared to the one he would otherwise live. And as court physician and advisor, he has a modicum of power other magic-users don't. Which he attempts to leverage as a voice of reason and to covertly protect innocents where he can, such as Balinor and Alice, and then later Merlin.

Uther created a lose-lose situation for him: a life of suffering alongside his magical kin or siding with the enemy to protect himself and potentially minimize harm?

Plus, after years of hearing propaganda and having to give internal justifications to quell his guilt and cognitive dissonance, it's likely Gaius began to believe Uther somewhat.

Balinor and Uther ALSO must have been friends before the purge started, because otherwise i feel there's no way Balinor could have been tricked into summoning Kilgharrah during the literal great purge

I personally don't think Balinor and Uther were friends before the purge—there's no evidence either way—but I do believe they were friendly. It's in Uther's best interest to be on, if not good then at least, amicable terms with the dragon lords (considering how easily they could wreck his whole shit).

As for why he was tricked, I speculate it was a combination of desperately wanting to believe Uther finally wanted peace, and potentially Uther's reputation doing a lot of heavy lifting—that is, if we assume Uther was seen as a good, fair, and just king before the purge, of which there is no definitive evidence for or against.

[localvillagecryptid]

Combatting the "illiterate/dumb/insert classist assumption here" headcanons being circulated about Zaunites (particularly Vi) with my own headcanons.

Headcanon that Zaunites are actually super into literature and poetry. Like, culturally. Headcanon that music and poems were there for them when they had nothing else. The bridge song is the only song we hear being canonically sung by a character in the show and it's literally baby Powder (and Vi hums at the end of s2). The only other songs being played in-world are all by Zaunites. Art is a form of expression that they took refuge in as a community.

Headcanon that they generally love storytelling. Regardless of if they do or don't have access to books that are in good and preservable conditions, storytelling (via reading or memorization/orally) is a super important part of their culture. No one population has a 100% literacy rate even IRL, and not being able to read doesn't make anyone stupid anyway. But Zaun has a decently high literacy rate, especially considering their circumstances. They prioritize it because of how fundamentally important art/storytelling is to their culture.

Headcanon that Ekko and his Firelights tell stories to the kids at the base every night before bed. That a lot of these tales are from people he loved, like Benzo or his birth parents, or even Vi, Jinx, Mylo, and Claggor.

Headcanon that Vi in particular loves reading. She's a total bookworm. The few moments where she gets to do things for herself, she chooses to read and collect poetry and literaterary works. She's only ever kept one classic for herself (sold the others), but the things she keeps, she treasures. Young Vi likes to spin tales for baby Powder. Some are based off of stories she's read/was told by the adults in her life. Others are entirely made up on the spot, for Powder's own enjoyment.

Headcanon that Vi would've maybe wanted to be an author if she wasn't more preoccupied with protecting her family. That she considered pursuing those interests a pipe dream, something for a different version of herself.

Headcanon that Sevika remembers more about her dad's stories than about her dad himself. Headcanon that Renni the chembaron read books with her son whenever they both had a day off from work.

Headcanon that a lot of Zaunites know how to sing. Headcanon that Vi can sing. And that she used to sing lullabies for Powder until Mylo called her a baby for still needing them. And even after Vi punched him for it, Powder insisted she was too big for lullabies- so she and Vi settled on bedtime stories.

Headcanon that Jinx still remembers those stories. That she tells them over and over to herself whenever she can't sleep.

Headcanon that Silco told her stories when she became comfortable enough to tell him about her insomnia as a kid.

Headcanon that he would tell her anything from true stories of his past to things he's read or heard to things improvised on the spot. And they were different from Vi's stories because these usually had some moral/message to them, even the ones that he made up- but she loved them just as much as the aimless, endless tales of wonder and adventure Vi would spin for her.

Headcanon that now, she replays both Vi's and Silco's stories in her head at night. That when Isha came into her care, she shared some of those stories with her, too.

[localvillagecryptid]

Another headcanon:

Vi would recite memorized poems and stories to herself in prison. Sometimes, when she wasn't in solitary, she'd recite them to her fellow inmates. A few would take turns sharing stories and poems at night, until the wardens would come by to shut them up.

Even if at odds with a particular inmate, she'd still recite any story they asked. She was one of the better storytellers/poetry performers, with good cadence and a captivating voice, even as a teen.

When in isolation, she would take breaks from punching walls to run through every story and poem she knew, every song, and then she'd make some up on the spot the way she did for little Powder. Many of her stories were about a girl escaping whatever suffering she was subjected to. When the guards came to beat her, it was where her mind would go. The next stanza, the first chorus, the final plot twist at the end of the third act. She was anywhere but there, until they finally left her alone.

[gildedpomegranates]

Adding some worldbuilding ramblings:

If we want to go crazy with it, Zaunite culture putting more importance on music/ oral storytelling/ teaching directly rather than on books could make a lot of sense. Considering it's very canon that trees growing in Zaun is unheard of, it makes sense that paper is not a natural commodity to them. They would have to rely on either Piltover or other trade relations to acquire it, which would make it more uncommon/possibly seen as not worth the price.

Quick aside: We don't ever get an in-depth look at just how the Piltover-Zaun symbiotic relationship works in Arcane. Legally, they are one, with Zaun being a Piltovan district and subject to the same laws/same government, but economically? We know that trade passes between them—in s1a1, Grayson mentions commerce being frozen, and later, during the Chem-Baron meeting, Finn mentions how they're "bleeding money" with the situation at the border.

Other materials that are native to Zaun, such as metal, stone, or clay can be used for writing. But it's time and labor intensive, so while they can be used, it would be sparingly and for necessary information. To use a real life example, stories were not the first writing—numbers were. Specifically, ledgers keeping track of goods. Stories, songs, and poetry are much easier to remember, and thus are of lesser importance when it comes to recording. The invention of writing was, at least partially, driven by a need to do what spoken word couldn't.

This is purely self indulgent, but I recently learned of quipus, which were a record-keeping method that used knots and different colored cords. It was exclusively used for math data, such as taxes and property and such. I just wish people would get funky with fictional cultures. Who needs written records when you can have this???

Furthermore, I think it's interesting if the 'illiterate/dumb' take holds water in-universe as a common Piltovan assumption. Already, this assumption exists between the rich and poor, and if Piltover equates books with intelligence and knowledge, then Zaun, a culture that places stake in other forms/methods of information and record-keeping, would seem unintelligent.

As to your addition, oh my fucking god. Storyteller/Poet Vi in prison is genuinely one of the most interesting takes I've read. I struggle to characterize adult Vi since she seems leeched of character compared to when she was a teenager, but the idea of her finding a niche in prison as a storyteller is fascinating. I hope you don't mind that I am now absorbing that into my understanding/depictions of her.

[r-u-still-here]

What was the purpose of them trying to destroy the shimmer factory or take down the Chem-Barons?

Things are not bad because people do drugs, people do drugs because things are bad.

They are still oppressed and impoverished. Other bad things are going to keep happening because the system never changed.

It's like fixing a broken window in a house without a roof.

It was just another excuse for more violence towards impoverished people from "bad neighbourhoods, which in real life is, in it's majority, people of colour.

It's the war on drugs repackaged.

[gildedpomegranates]

These are all fantastic points. However, the intent behind the attacks on the factories wasn’t necessarily to help the Undercity but to unseat Silco. He only has power and influence because of shimmer production. Silco (and shimmer itself—both as a medicine and as a strength enhancer) represents a threat to Topside and their control, which is what they’re primarily responding to.

I do think Vi honestly believes getting rid of Silco = helping the undercity recover, so her motivations ARE to help. However, both her and Ekko suffer from a misconception that getting rid of Silco will fix the Undercity’s issues. Even the most negative view of Silco and his motivations/impact on the Undercity should acknowledge he’s a symptom of the real problem (Topside’s oppression).

[sandraharissa]

The way I see Vander and Silco’s relationship is that they were canonically life partners.

They were each other’s closest loved one. They run the revolution together. The build the Lanes together. It would stand to reason they opened the Last Drop together and lived there together (where else is Silco living and why wouldn’t it be at the headquarters? Even in s2 they were both there after hours with it only being weird that the mom was still there). They had secret hideouts together just for them. They were ready to live a life and die together. They never got over each other or went on to build a life with someone else. They never formed a closer bond with anyone bar the children. They even ended up having a daughter together despite becoming mortal enemies lol.

And whether you see it as a purely platonic partnership or romantic in nature is up to you, it’s all good. But it is so clear they were building a life together. They really do not qualify as ‘friends’.

[gildedpomegranates]

For the most part, hard agree, and as someone whose favorite interpretation of them is queer platonic, I'm glad to see this talked about more.

However, something that really bothers me about this: there's no restriction on who or how many people you build a life with. I guess it depends on what you classify 'building a life' as, and I may be misinterpreting the original point, but the idea that it's automatically going to be with one person is pretty amatonormative and just... not true for everyone. People can, will, and have built lives with: romantic partners (plural, for some), platonic partners, friends, sisters, brothers, parents, other relatives, communities, pets, business partners, even.

Here's an example: the show Psych (2006) is genuinely one of the best depictions of friendship I've ever seen, and the show ends in a stereotypical way: one of the main characters moves away to be with his girlfriend. Except... his best friend comes with him, because he realizes he doesn't want to live apart. The two are treated by said girlfriend as a 'packaged deal' while still remaining 100% friends.

Here's a more personal one: my sister and I are very close. It's an unspoken thing between us that we want to build a life together. We want to live in the same city. We want to hang out frequently. If either of us ends up having kids, it's an already established notion that the other helps raise them. My sister is also building a life with her romantic partner. Likewise, I want to live together and build a life with my best friend, who in turn wants to build a life with their romantic partner and a handful of other people they love in various ways. In my most ideal world, I live in a large community with everyone I love.

To you, building a life may just mean one partner (romantic or platonic), and that's fine. People should live their lives in the way they want, that will make them happy! But it is not nearly the only way people build lives together.

As for Vander and Silco, I welcome any and all interpretations of them. But saying they don't qualify as 'friends' simply because they were building a life together just... isn't universally true.

[needanaccount2readarcaneposts]

there are some real uhhhhh. let's say unexamined assumptions that often get made about sevika's sexuality and preferences based purely on her appearance and demeanour, given that arcane implies exactly one (1) sexual partner for her, and his name is miguel

but i'm not sure that fandom is ready to have that conversation

[gildedpomegranates]

Adding on, sexuality doesn’t equal appearance. I thought we were past that. It really simplifies the spectrum of human behavior to equate feminine man = gay and masculine woman = lesbian.

Headcanoning whatever sexuality for characters is all fine and cool, but don’t pretend that is the only interpretation nor the one most supported by canon (bisexual Sevika in my heart of hearts). And it does speak to unconscious biases that lesbian Sevika is THE take in the fandom.

In a similar vein, that’s what can frustrate me about the ratio of trans headcanons in this fandom wildly tipping toward Silco, Viktor and often Sevika as well, as opposed to any other characters.

[angelinthefire]

I've been thinking about how I would most concisely sum up the plot of Acane. Because I think a lot of the complaints you see come from some people result from expecting it to be a certain kind of story that it's not.

And I think the most concise way to put it is that Arcane is about consequences. The first episode starts with an explosion, that the characters spend the rest of the arc dealing with the repercussions of. And then the first arc ends with two massive events - Powder killing her family and the invention of hextech - that they spend the entire rest of the show dealing with.

I think most of the stories we get from Western media are about achieving or accomplishing something, or the failure to achieve something. And you can frame Arcane in those terms. But I think to best understand the story, you have to step out of that typical framework. Because the thing with an achievement-based story is that there is a particular end goal in mind, and I don't think Arcand has that.

Like take Vi and Jinx, for example. A typical way to frame their story would be that it's about two sisters trying to rebuild their relationship. That presupposes a certain ending: They either succeed or fail at their relationship, and that's what the focus is on.

But it's not about that. It's about - how do you deal with an event that fundamentally changes you?

In season 1, Vi's answer was to recapture what things were like before. In season 2, they try to redo the past (saving Vander) and get a different outcome, but that's impossible. The answer comes with Ekko - to build something new.

And this is all over the show - action and reaction, how the arcane wakes up, killing is a cycle.

[gildedpomegranates]

This is so beautifully put and perfectly encapsulates my feelings on it, although in the past I’ve used the word ‘choices’ instead of ‘consequences’. Same general feeling.

At the risk of my own redundancy, this is why it seems so silly to me when people try to place moral value on characters’ actions and why a lot of criticism falls flat for me. Arcane is an exploration, not a fable. There is no specific moral it wants us to take away, no condemnation or judgement surrounding characters—just a look at injustice and the choices characters make on either side of it. An exploration of various themes.

It’s also why I’m opposed to the idea that Jinx—or any other character—needed a ‘redemption’ arc. That’s not what Arcane is about. You’re dead on—it’s action and reaction. How do different people respond to oppression? How do those responses affect and mold others?

And I think this is why, when it comes down to it, I’ve always struggled to picture how Vi and Jinx could reconcile. It was always a story about two sisters, just not necessarily about the success or failure of their reconciliation.

[gildedpomegranates]

There was so much potential for interesting conflict between Vi and Ekko in s2. And no, I'm not talking about how they sidelined Ekko and avoided his reaction to Enforcer Vi. Specifically, their conflicting approaches to change and the fact that Ekko and Vi are foils.

With one thoughtless act from Marcus, Vi was frozen in a single moment, locked away for years and understandably unable to accept that everything as she knows it—everyone she loves—changed. And for a character whose origin revolves around time-travel, Arcane!Ekko is surprisingly future-focused. He remembers and mourns the past, but he focuses on what can be fixed: the future.

This is best highlighted with their contrasting, equally flawed views of Jinx. Vi refuses to accept Jinx (that her sister changed and grew up), while Ekko adamantly denies any trace or remanent of Powder. "She's [Powder] still in there... I know my sister." vs "Powder is gone, Vi. All that's left is Jinx."

s1 doesn't dwell on Vi's reaction to Ekko and the Firelights, which is understandable. Every second the gemstone remained missing, the risk for escalating conflict between Zaun and Piltover increased. However, s2 was a missed opportunity to expand on their relationship, and to explore more of Vi's change-aversion.

Here is this kid her and her siblings collectively accepted. A little shit who spied on people and got them information, and who she tried to teach to fight, only he had two left feet. He'd chatter endlessly given half a chance. Here he is seven years later, alive and grown-up. Not just a scrawny brainiac anymore, but a fighter. A big bad leader, just like she used to be.

Is she proud of him? Does she mourn the kid he used to be? If she had gone back to the Firelights, would she instinctively try to step back into that leadership role, only to find it filled. By LITTLE MAN, of all people—the kid she used to hose down after the scrap-yard.

And on Ekko's side, he grew up too fast. Had to, to survive and take care of his community. But when Vi comes back, does a part of him want to revert back to that little kid, looking to his big sister to tell him what to do. Or does he jealously hoard his leadership and everything he worked to build, leading to conflict between them.

[fulcrums501st]

if we define “good dad” by genuinely wanting what’s best for your kid, loving and caring for them unconditionally, being patient with them, making them feel valued, giving them the space to express themselves, encouraging their talents, and genuinely trying your best and doing what you think is best for them, then Silco was a good dad.

But if we define “good dad” by actually being able to properly parent and discipline your child, ensuring they aren’t a danger to themselves and others, teaching them healthy life lessons so that they can grow, not projecting your own unresolved trauma onto your child in a codependent way, and being a good role model, then Silco was NOT a good dad.

[sandraharissa]

I think when it comes to this discussion a lot of ppl also miss that Silco’s a wish fulfillment dad, especially for the mentally ill girlies. that’s why Jinx is also a bit obsessed with him just like irl fans.

Like e.g. when she killed the firelight all she said was ‘one of those firelight wackos was a girl with pink hair’ and when she failed to make the weapon she said ‘I keep seeing them. that day’. Like a typical troubled child she has trouble expressing what’s wrong with her and what she’s experiencing to ppl who don’t experience what she does and in a society that doesn’t have the language to describe it. In this way Silco is the perfect parent for her cos he’s naturally observant and well-spoken but also bcos he also had past experiences with severe mental issues. This is also probs why to an extent he projects onto her cos the similarities between their traumas help him guess what’s wrong, but he’s not always right and when that’s the case Jinx will not express it to him. Like she could have just said ‘I want to try to reconnect with Vi and I want you to help me’ cos that’s the case and it’s smth Silco tried himself with Vander but she’s not capable. When she stabbed him in the face she clearly felt really bad about it afterwards but she said nothing.

That’s why she complains in the baptism scene but then Silco drops ‘betrayal, that pain that feels like it'll eat you from the inside out’ and suddenly she’s listening. Cos he puts into words her feelings perfectly and most times understands her without her needing to explain herself, which is smth borderline impossible for her, which is smth no one else ever did or could do for her.

There's also the 'she can do whatever she wants' and 'he never gets mad at her when it matters' and 'he thinks she's perfect despite all her flaws and fuck-ups'. He's a well of understanding to her when she acts out, no matter how bad it gets, when ppl irl will say you're a weirdo if you exhibit mild symptoms of smth.

That’s what I’m thinking about when I think he was a perfect dad for Jinx. Cos he legitimately can do stuff for her that no one else can. But then there's also a flip side to all the positives, like Silco expressing her feelings for her and tolerating her violent outbursts is loving and in some ways helpful, but it also makes her more dependent on him and more isolated from others. If only they got to live in better circumstances.

[rambyol]

[tackykachowch]

Alright so I found another reason to hate the flashback in s2. Crazy right? Well tbf, it's not about the flashback in particular this time, but rather wasted opportunity. After rewatching some of Silco's scenes in season 1 I caught myself thinking: "Huh. This guy sure mentions sons and daughters/brothers and sisters a lot. Interesting thing to do for a character who treats people as resources". And then it hit me. There's just a GOLDMINE (heh) of untouched inner conflict to explore within Silco.

Just think about it. He probably went to work in the mines as soon as he was capable to and was raised by people there. Like he mentions in a dialog with Finn, they were a tightly connected community who always looked after each other, making sure everyone survived on the sparce resources they had. So wouldn't it be better to focus the flashback on that community rather than one specific person? We already know that Silco and Vander were the closest people to each other, so to introduce another person to the equation doesn't really make sense. The flashback can still happen at The Last Drop, but a party could be happening there. Maybe not even to celebrate something, but to just have a good time with everyone. And we could be shown how Silco interacted with all these different people, knew their personal struggles and goals, excitedly discussed what they're gonna do after liberation with them, what everyone is going to do once they'll be fully free of the mines. To really show us and emphasize the fact that BOTH Vander and Silco built the Lanes. Vander wasn't the only one to value the community, he just wasn't the one who was ready to sacrifice it for their goal. And this is very important too!! Because it's easy to think of Silco as a ruthless calculating machine that never cared for the people. But he clearly did. And we could be shown how desperation broke him, because even after everything he and Vander did their friends and adoptive family were still dying. Some from the accidents in the mines, some from diseases caused by the Grey, some from enforcers' brutality etc. So it was REALLY hard for him to cross that line and place the cause above all else. And a parallel can be created there: in ep3 Vander says that he cooperated with Grayson because he "didn't have another choice", so maybe Silco thought the same when he made a decision to stop valuing his people above else? A really interesting conversation can be had there, but "bLiStErS aNd BeDrOcK" is cooler apparently.

[gildedpomegranates]

Great points all around. It’s what always gets my goat when people try to argue that Silco never cared about Zaun, because he did. Maybe not this new generation so much, but he had so much love for his fellow revolutionaries of old. He does not like the industrial hellscape he turned it into (or at least, the chem barons attitudes based on the industrial hellscape) but needs must.

Kind of related, but I’ve recently been consumed with world-building and the culture of Zaun, specifically weddings (honestly will probably write a whole post on that). Maybe idealist, but I imagine them as these massive community events, with a good chunk of them occurring at the Last Drop. It would’ve been so fun if they showed us a wedding, and if they were so hell bent on including their bio parents, it could’ve been Felicia and Connel’s.

[gildedpomegranates]

My favorite Timebomb will always be s1, with its gut-wrenching nuance and the best friends to mortal enemies of it all. And this is fully ridiculous (bordering on crack) but imagine:

It’s like a year into Jinx’s stay with Silco, enough time for him to fully reveal his Tragic Past with Vander to her. But one day, Sevika gets bored and tells her that Silco and Vander actually used to be romantically involved. Whether or not this is true is never clarified, but Jinx fully believes it, so as she grows, she uses that for her model of romance: intimacy intertwined with violence.

It takes a while for her to get fully involved with Silco’s business, but after a truly vicious fight with Ekko (possibly their first interaction since he tried and failed to save her), as she’s tending to her wounds, she just stops and goes, “Wait a minute… was Ekko… flirting with me?”

Idk, the idea of s1 Timebomb having these polar opposite perceptions of their relationship is so funny to me. Ekko mourning the loss of his best friend and hating Jinx, while Jinx is fully convinced they’ve been dating for like three years.

[idkjustletmescroll]

I find it hard to participate in arcane discourse around season 2 because I just...don't agree with most of the writing choices.

Like, do I think gassing civilians is fine? No, but I don't think Caitlyn would have done that of her own accord at all. I don't think vi would have agreed to it. I don't think she would have decided that jinx had to die so early on in the season.

I think Caitlyn would have agreed to go to drastic measures to capture/kill jinx, but not to the point of harming a bunch of civilians over it. I think vi would have decided, at this point, that power is long gone, but would be angling to get her in stillwater or something, rather than dead. I don't want to argue about whether or not their choices are justified when I don't think they would make those choices in the first place.

Part of it's pacing, and part of it's clutter. As much as I love Mel, her black rose arc was completely unnecessary. Seeing Mel having to confront her own complicity with Zaun's oppression, and therefore with the current conflict; learning to navigate politics with Zaunites and their system; trying to keep her mother in check; etc. And then the writers made viktor's machine herald arc the end-all-be-all, when that was never what the show was about? Progress was a huge theme in s1, too, but it was always meant to help amplify and push forward the main story about two SISTERS and two CITIES. It was never supposed to be the main focus. And the actual characters suffer because they become whatever the plot needs them to be as soon as the plot needs them to become it, rather than having more natural arcs that would lead them there. If any of that makes sense.

[gildedpomegranates]

imo, Jinx and Vi's bio parents didn't need more screen time (the importance of their characters was their deaths at the hands of enforcers), but if they were so intent on exploring Felicia as a character in s2, it should've been through Vi and added onto her character/arc in some way. Not her memory brought up in that half-assed sisterly heart-to-heart in s2ep6, not her retconned connection to Silco and Vander. And, in my ideal world, it serves as a point of conflict between Vi and Jinx.

Imagine a similar scene as in s2ep6. Vi, grief-stricken and perpetually stuck in the past, demanding, "Do you even remember them?" and Jinx doesn't say anything, so Vi breaks. A torrent of memories shoots out of her. A flood of every detail she locked away, growing more and more frantic the longer Jinx doesn't react, possibly culminating with that comment about their mom's smell, if the writers felt that inclined to it.

Imagine they go the route of Sokka and Katara.

Vi is visibly devastated. The 'sit down on the ground, shut down' kind of devastated. Part of Jinx is still that same child wrapping her arms around Vi's waist on the bridge, part of her is always that little girl wanting to fix things, so she sits down next to her, but not too close. Not touching. And she admits that she remembers their mom, a little. But whenever she tries to picture her, Vi's is the only face she can see.

s2 suffers from the writers overestimating the importance of Powder's other caregivers. Her parents, Vander—they're all secondary. Vi has always been her number one.

[gildedpomegranates]

Ideas for Season 2 I Would've Liked to See/Explored More:

Ambessa explicitly acting as a motherly figure to manipulate Cait, who's grieving a mother. Especially since Cait had a complicated relationship with her mom, centered around Cassandra being overly protective/unsupportive of her choices, with Ambessa being everything her mom wasn't.

Jinx and her relationship with Zaun. In s1, she doesn't have much of one due to isolation (encouraged by Silco as well as self-imposed), other than the fear and discomfort she inspires. She doesn't have to become a revolutionary (although its odd that there was so much marketing and set-up for it), but at least explore that. People who love her, people who blame her for Piltover's retaliation, people who are unsure. This could also be a great chance to establish more about in-universe Jinx and Ekko, since Ekko's character is very centered around the people of Zaun.

Vi as a person. Having a chance to explore who she is outside of being a sister-mother and a prisoner. Struggling with making choices for herself as someone either completely robbed of them (as a prisoner) or who couldn't afford to make selfish choices (as a caregiver). Exploring her immense untouched trauma, as well as her relationship to Zaun. Her guilt as an enforcer possibly causing her to double-down in support of the revolution, maybe by joining the Firelights and supporting Ekko.

In a similar vein, Jinx as a person. She's established as a character that latches onto one person (her main caregiver) and has a tendency to absorb parts of that person (morals, behaviors, etc). I would've loved to see her without a main person, possibly as a parallel to Vi. Vi discovers who she is without someone to protect while Jinx discovers who she is without someone protecting her.

Cait and Jayce's relationship. It was completely thrown to the wayside. Overall, s2 tended to sideline platonic and familial relationships for romantic ones.

Ekko as a person outside of his relationships to other characters. We know like? Nothing about him and his time during the time skip in s1. Does he like being a leader? Does he not know how to define himself outside of being one? Does he resent being forced into the role and having to grow up way too fast? A combination of all of the above? How long has he been the leader? Was it him alone that established the Firelights, or were there originally older rebels that passed long ago, leaving only him? Like please, let him be a character. I know people joke about him being perfect and universally unproblematic, but a lot of that is because they don't give him enough screen time or any realistic flaws or let him organically develop beyond being a plot device.

Jinx and Ekko's relationship. This doesn't have to be romantic, just them and their in-universe dynamic please. At the end of s1, we had this big moment where Ekko, who had been coping with it by insisting Powder was dead, realizes that Jinx is just grown-up Powder, and that he can't kill her. s2 then does nothing with this, fobbing him off into an alternate universe with an alternate Powder. I would've loved to see Jinx and Ekko struggling to work together, getting to know each other in a capacity other than enemies. Ekko emulating Vander's 'we don't give up our own people' and protecting Jinx from Piltover despite his better judgement.

Y'know what? Ekko and Sevika. Both two people desperately fighting for Zaun, in two wildly different ways. I would've loved to see them interact. They probably would've gotten into a fist fight, but just imagine the Ekko-Sevika-Jinx power trio heading the revolution.

The Wolf vs the Fox. Mel as a formidable politician, working in the shadows to undermine her mother. Her putting everything she's learned in Piltover to use, weaponizing the lessons learned from her banishment. If they were so desperate to include the Black Rose plotline, they could maybe have Mel becoming obsessed with protecting Piltover from her mother and going so far as to ally with her brother's killers.

[cherrybomb107]

I literally wouldn’t have cared if they decided to pull a Cyberpunk Edgerunners and kill off our entire main cast save for one or two characters and let the bad guys(the establishment) win. Tragedy isn’t the problem. The problem is the way they went about it. The show had so many plot threads to tie up, there was never any time to truly reckon with all the tragedies that were occurring.

Ekko losing his tree because of Arcane poisoning would be tragic. Notice I said “would be” because that plot line is literally never addressed again. It gets brought up, and then forgotten about. Vi being hit by her girlfriend after she makes the decision to put on the uniform of her oppressors and contribute to oppressing her own people in pursuit of a little sister who she can’t accept has changed is tragic on multiple levels! That’s some compelling shit! But the show never meaningfully addresses these issues or lets Vi react to them without throwing her into a new situation where she has to fight and lose something again. All Vi has ever done her entire life is try and fail to protect her loved ones. She gets punished for trying. It’s almost like the universe itself is out to get her! But we never see Vi break down and pick herself back up. We never see her make any choices to do what’s best for her. The plot decided for her and that’s the problem!

Vi and Jinx deciding to go their separate ways after all that they’ve been through would’ve been tragic. These two sister who love each other more than anything having to break apart for who knows how long and holding onto the hope that maybe they can reunite and be sisters again is gut wrenching…or at least it WOULD be if they actually decided to separate! Vi didn’t decide to leave her sister, Jinx didn’t decide to leave Vi, the narrative forced them apart! The narrative keeps ripping them away from each other and it’s starting to feel intentional. Trying to tell the audience that the only way Vi can truly be happy and choose herself is by having her baby sister die and being forced to live with her girlfriend in a city that will be extremely discriminatory towards her is not it. I’m not saying that Vi and Jinx have to ride off into the sunset together. But I am saying that if going their separate ways really was for the best, the show wouldn’t spend so much time trying to convince us of that. It would just happen organically. Which, to me, it didn’t

Jinx losing Isha was yet another tragedy! But the show doesn’t really show Jinx grieving and then deciding to fight for what she believes in after Ekko convinces her to try. She tried to kill herself five times. FIVE TIMES!!! How on Earth did she go from that to a badass piloting an airship, dripped out with her new outfit and steeled sense of resolve? We don’t know because it happened offscreen! I understand the show had time constraints, but come on. This plot line deserved more time to shine. Sevika being on the Council is a tragedy. It’s an empty gesture for one, and majority rules for two. That means Sevika will be forced to try to barter for Zaun’s freedom while being surrounded by a bunch of classist Piltie pricks who despise her and everything she stands for. She will be talked over and talked down to. That’s not a happy ending! But the show frames it like it is! And I’m sorry but if you can’t watch interviews of the writers saying their thoughts on the show and you genuinely believe that they have the range to write Sevika being on the Council as thoughtful commentary? No comment😭😭😭

Caitlyn’s corruption arc is yet another tragedy! Both because of what happened to her AND the fact that the arc wasn’t done! Caitlyn’s arc was supposed to show how no matter how “good” and “kind” a privileged person believes them self to be, their unconscious bias and prejudice against the out group will rear its ugly head the second they experience a fraction of what the marginalized group has been experiencing for centuries. It was so easy for Caitlyn to say “I understand now. How easy it is to hate them.” “Those animals!” “I thought you were different, but you’re not. It’s her blood in your veins!” How easy it was for her to weaponize The Gray. How easy it was for her to work with Ambessa and co sign martial law despite knowing better. How easy it was for her to risk killing a child just to get to Jinx. That’s super compelling! But the problem is we never see Caitlyn wrestle with her decisions. Guilt should be eating her ALIVE and all we get is a complete 180 from her after a time skip! Then she does nothing to redeem herself! And once again, no the writers absolutely did not intend that to be commentary on how the privileged are able to get away with things the lower class would be imprisoned/killed for. If they did then Caitlyn could’ve had a confrontation with someone from Zaun, whether that be Sevika, Ekko, Jinx, Vi or someone else, where they call her out on her hypocrisy. Then we would see her wrestle with that and realize the monster that she’s become.

Unfortunately, all these tragedies are not given the proper narrative weight they deserve. Or they’re not treated as tragedies when they so clearly are! THAT’S the problem! It’s not tragedy, it’s the framing! And it’s the way y’all are so condescending whenever someone criticizes the show. Why is every single critique met with “You didn’t watch/understand the show”? Why is it always “What were you expecting?” “You’re just mad it didn’t go your way.” “You’re just a hater.” “You have no idea how hard writing a script is.” “They planned the story from the beginning, this is how it was supposed to be.” And on and on and on. It’s exhausting! Why is it so hard for y’all to understand that it is possible to understand and have love for something but still have gripes with it? It doesn’t mean I love the show any less! It just means I’d love it even more if not for these certain aspects of it. That’s it, that’s all🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️

[gildedpomegranates]

So well put, perfectly incapsulates my frustrations not only with s2 and the writers but with a lot of the commentary on it and its so-called ‘tragedy’.

First off, I am a certified tragedy enjoyer. I love it when shit is as gut-wrenching as possible. But s2 is not tragic.

It should’ve been. A lot of the plot points within it are tragic. But you cannot call something a tragedy just because a bunch of sad stuff happens on screen, whereas all of the emotional reactions and development is implied or happens off screen.

The differences between s1 and s2 are so stark. I’ve thought it before, I’ve seen it said before, and it’s true: s1 is character directed, while s2 is plot directed.

In s1, everything that happens is a result of character action, influenced by the systems in place. Despite being a fantasy/sci-fi setting, it all feels extremely realistic because we focus so hard on the characters, their emotional turmoil, and their choices. Nobody is a passive character, not side characters like Mylo or those with hardly any screen time like Babette.

In s2, they toss the characters into the midst of events contrived for the sole purpose of connecting to these big plot points, with threadbare reasoning. Character motivations are watered down, whereas in s1, we had a cast of heavily determined characters all working toward their own agendas. Jinx becomes listless and passive. Jayce sits around after Viktor leaves, has this lukewarm team up with Ekko and Heimendinger, and then disappears for most of Act 2. Vi never makes a decision for herself, which is so unsatisfying after a lifetime of living for others and having her choices taken away.

If it had been this way the whole time, that’d be a different story. But s1 was so good. And s2 just didn’t come anywhere close.

[thief-of-eggs]

The casual intimacy of the Silco/Vander jackets scene makes me feel like they were the type to share a bed when the nights were too cold, and blankets too sparse. Like they were the type to be all up in each other’s business, speaking on each other’s behalf, fighting on each other’s behalf.

Like they were the type to offer each other casual touch and affection, when it was so hard for them to give to others. Vander silently grabbing a comb to brush through Silco’s hair, Silco wordlessly applying polish to Vander’s gauntlets.

I don’t know why the scene hit me so profoundly, but it did. Maybe it’s because there’s a level of intimacy needed in order to so casually hang your coat within another’s. You need to be trusting of the other person’s level of cleanliness, first off, to assume your own clothes won’t pick up some dirt, or a foul smell. And there’s the fact that a scent is likely to be picked up- Silco’s jacket then would smell like Vander, and Vander’s would smell like Silco. Whatever cologne or body wash or personal BO they had must’ve been strong enough to linger, given how Jinx tried sniffing their coats, even after all the years.

It also shows the heartbreaking layer of trust that Silco had for Vander. To slip his jacket into Vander’s, like a physical reminder that Vander was his protector. That he knew he was smaller and weaker but also knew that Vander would never hurt him.

Until he did, anyway. Despite how casually intimate they were, despite how trusting, how intertwined.

No wonder Silco went a little insane. Came back a little demented. Hell, I’d burn the world too if I were in his shoes.

[whitejays-galaxy]

I just watched the latest episode of Arcane and holy shit....

Anyway, here's a quick doodle of this messed-up family