Mem | Dirty Thirties | They/them | Nonpracticing Bi | Hi! This is a side blog for containing my thoughts and reblogs for Hazbin and Helluva. I like the Vees and Alastor when he's evil. Will reblog any and every ship. I don't really tag them so if you have ones you hate you shouldn't follow me. Minors please DNI, there will be occasional NSFW. (NSFW tag is #lewd if you want to filter it out.) Blog currently under construction.
While I think Vox's ignorance about different Spanish speaking cultures is genuine and probably willful, I think his instances of verbal bigotry are deliberate and targeted. He calls Charlie hysterical once but we don't see him have any issue with women in day to day life, he isn't behind the scenes going 'wow I hate women', or 'wow women are all hysterical and beneath men' he says that because he thinks it will get a rise out of her. He treats women equally as shitty as everyone else when they aren't in his inner circle.
Same with the "island language" comment. It was a targeted attack against Valentino. And to me it felt like he was being very mincing and careful with how he phrased that, like he knew he would get in trouble with the other two if he was outright racist or too far, so he settles on something relatively mild. Like 'see guys I wasn't racist I didn't even say anything about his culture or his people or him, I know Puerto Rico is an island I'm not ignorant'. And then he still got smashed for it lmao because the Vees are not putting up with his shit when it comes to that.
I don't see him getting away with shit talking black people or Latinos behind the scenes even accidentally, because Velvette and Val would be quick to correct him. And if he was out there hating black people back in the 50s I don't Alastor would have been giggling at his jokes and gazing all doe-eyed at him in bars. So while Vox is the ignorant type of racist, I don't think we see any evidence that he's the type that actively hates people based off race.
Tldr I agree with you Vox sucks but with the nuance that it's half on purpose and also no HR needed the Vees are on that and Vox is getting smashed for his deliberate transgressions
No HR needed because the Vees are HR is 10/10. I mean yes. I mean of course.
Yeah I think a lot of this goes to my offhand comment about Vox being like kids who use the R slur. He is definitely trying to get a rise out of people on purpose with some of these comments (although others-- the appeal to Carmilla in Bad With Us comes to mind-- are just pure ignorance plain and simple), but there is no hateful animus lurking underneath it.
Charlie and Vox Parallels Part 2: Radio Killed the Video Star
So I'm mostly gonna be looking at Charlie's actions in this ep and comparing them with Vox; Vox's side of things has parallels with Charlie across the series and I'll be revisiting them.
And ooh boy....this episode, the one that introduces Vox, actually reveals just how borderline identical Vox and Charlie are. Just about every scene Charlie has in this episode has a parallel in Vox, and the last one I noticed is actually incredibly disturbing. A little eerie foreshadowing of Charlie's worst traits in Season 2.
But to start out with some simple stuff:
(transcripts from the website)
Parallel #:1 Proactively Dealing with Situations
The episode opens with Charlie panicking about the unexpected news of the exterminations being moved up, and we see her completely lose control as she starts rambling:
Charlie: Okay. So, the extermination is coming in six months instead of a year! No big deal, just a little setback. Nothing we can't handle. Just angels cutting our timetable in half, but who needs a whole year to save souls, am I right?! And next time when they cut the time in half again, and again, we'll just handle it, right?!
Vaggie: Yes. We will.
Later in the same episode, Vox starts freaking out about the arrival of a new and more dangerous threat in the form of Alastor, and Val similarly is in a position to calm him down.
Vox: Alastor...*walks to him* came back...and he is with Lucifer's daughter, and that wasn't the *FIRST FUCKING THING YOU TOLD ME?!?!?!
Valentino: Hey! killing Alastor is your kink.
Differently, of course, Vaggie calms down and reassures Charlie here that they'll do something, where Val basically tries to downplay the whole thing. To Val, the problem is just Vox having a hangup about Al, not that Al might be a real problem.
Vox has a meeting with Val and Vel later, and continues this discussion
Vox: We have a problem. Alastor is getting close to little princess Morningstar, so our main concern now is ensuring that no deal is ever struck between Lucifer's *slams the table* BRAT and that smiling freak!
Velvette: Well, how exactly are we supposed to stop it?
Vox is the one who wants to do something about the potential danger Alastor poses, while the other Vees are pretty apathetic and not exactly supplying ideas. Charlie has a similar interaction with Angel at the start of the ep:
Charlie: Sure there is! We just...have to look a little harder for it!
Angel Dust: Well, while you're lookin', the rest'a hell's goin' nuts. People are already freakin' out about the news. Look at what's happenin' in the Doomsday District.
You can definitely see the similarities in these interactions - Vox and Charlie are the most hyper-motivated members of the group, and the ones who tend to come up with ideas and push projects forward, to attack problems head-on and lead the group in taking on challenges. Not that their Vs don't contribute at all:
Vaggie: Yeah, that's true. Sinners are desperate. Maybe desperate enough to try anything to escape the extermination?
Charlie: (Gasps) This is the perfect time to recruit more sinners for the hotel!
And with the Vees:
Valentino: Put something inside them. That's how I get the bitches to behave.
Vox: Well, maybe someone on the inside isn't such a bad idea. Do you think Angel would?
Vaggie and Val both make suggestions about what to do - suggestions that in some ways both come across as a bit insensitive; Vaggie basically talks about playing on/exploiting sinners' desperation in order to advance Charlie's dreams, and Val, well, that goes without saying.
Basically, this parallel highlights their shared proactivity, but it also highlights how they both kind of suck at it. Both of their plans fail in this episode. Vox's spy doesn't work and Charlie doesn't get a single new recruit. So while it's great that they both have enthusiasm and motivation, and are both tackling on a real problem head on, they need more than motivation to solve these issues.
Parallel #2: Taking in an Enemy
Later on, of course, Charlie takes in Pentious, who is not only secretly a spy for the Vees and trying to work (at the time) towards selfish ends, but as Angel points out:
Angel Dust: Are you fucking nuts?! This chump was trying to kill us like literally 6 hours ago! And now you wanna bring him in here to live with us?!
Charlie: Absolutely! This place is about second chances, and who deserves one more than this slithery... slippery... special little man!
In Season 2, Vox does the same thing. HE takes in a guy who was trying to kill him and his allies literally six seconds ago to live with them, and who is doing this for selfish, external reasons, to serve his own ends. There's a difference, of course: Charlie is willing to give Pentious a chance and treat him with kindness, and Vox tortures Al for humiliation and revenge. Still, it's an equally risky move on both of their parts; there's a similar lack of self-preservation in the action.
Side Note: Not touched on directly in this episode, but another interesting parallel I noticed is that it comes across like Lil maybe misled Charlie a bit about Lucifer, and maybe in some way tried to alienate her from her father - her other parent figure. (I don't know if it's confirmed, just a vibe) Just like Al tried to convince Vox that friendship was a lie and a joke and he'd be weak for seeking partners. But both Vox and Charlie refuse to let these attempts to convince them not to love stop them. Charlie still reaches out to her dad. Vox still chooses to have partners. C&V are saved by the fact that they are loved in s2, but also saved by the fact that they still choose to love, even when the people they want to impress the most try to convince them not to.
Anyway.
Parallel #3: Making their Friends Play Nice
This dialogue is almost identical.
Also in the same episode, we see Charlie and Vox both talking down their Latinx moth lovers from committing violence in a fit of rage:
Angel Dust and Vaggie: ♫ Can't we just kill him? ♫/♫ Shoot him and spill his blood? ♫
Charlie: ♫ That's an option you could choose. ♫
Angel Dust and Vaggie: ♫ Works for us. ♫
Charlie: ♫ But who hasn't been in his shoes?
Then, on Vox's side:
Valentino: That slippery twink is gonna remember who owns him. I'm gonna FUCK everyone in that rancid shit hole, I swear to god!
Vox: VAL. Hehe. Think about it. Our brand is perfection. And what do you think chasing whores around town will do for our image?
Valentino: Um...fuck it up?
Vox: Right!
The exchanges match. Vaggie (and Angel) and Val declare they're going on a rampage where they shoot someone for (in their eyes) betraying them, Charlie and Vox are both placating and then carefully de-escalate and talk down the situation using their mission and their priorities. Obviously, the difference is that Charlie shows Pentious genuine compassion, and Vox just views Angel as a tool. But the gestures are very similar.
Also, it's worth noting that Charlie and Vox both ask their friends to apologize for their mistakes:
Charlie: Well, I guess this is a great time for your first lesson! *Clears throat* "How to apologize!" The first step to becoming a better person is to admit when you are wrong, why don't you give it a try?
Sir Pentious: Yes...uhm... Mr uhm... Radio Demon sir, please forgive me for attacking you and ruining your very lovely coat... uhm... here.
Later on in Scream Rain:
Vox: See, my associate, Velvette here, came along today specifically to apologize about her childish actions at your last overlord meeting. She meant no harm. Did you, Velvette?
Velvette: (seethes) That's right. I spoke... out of turn. Forgive me.
Very similar actions; both understand the value of apologizing, even if it's fake, as a necessary action, even if it is a little bit strange or inadequate.
Parallel #4: Hurting Angel
And now, here's where things get really messed up:
Forcing Angel to act out a humiliating script where she casts him in a role that exacerbates all his insecurities with astonishing insensitivity, for the sake of advancing her own goals.
Now, who does that remind you of?
There's even this creepy parallel shot between this scene and Poison:
Angel, standing on the outside, after being hurt and humiliated, looking at first our hero, then our villain quite forlornly (Charlie even grabs Pentious' hand earlier in the shot like Vox is holding Val's. CREEPY).
Now obviously yes, what the Vees do to Angel is multitudes of infinity worse than what Charlie does. She just accidentally humiliates him. But the parallels are right there. Both Charlie and Vox (and not to farm out all the blame for Val onto Vox, Val is definitely very guilty here, but for the sake of the analysis, Vox is the CEO) force Angel to be more miserable by reading a script they write for him.
The subtext is there. If Charlie continues ignoring Angel's feelings and keeps pushing him, she might begin to mirror the ways the Vees treat him. It's a terrifying cautionary tale.
Hope she doesn't do something worse in season 2...
I like the idea that Alastor was casually very vain in life and enjoyed being a cutie patootie (for the most part), and getting to hell and becoming fugly actually screwed with him a bit. I don't think hell would have assigned him such monstrous features if it wasn't something he would've felt at least a little tortured by.
All this to say, having Vox constantly blushing and swooning and falling over himself at the sight of him soothed a part of him he'd never admit to.
This is a subject I’ve seen a few posts comment on, usually getting a lot of backlash in the comments defending Alastor’s hotness/rizz cred. I thought it’d be interesting to dive in and try to parse out both whether Alastor is considered unattractive in-universe (as a demon, not a human) and possibly also how he feels about that.
First, as a preliminary statement: Of course Alastor is objectively hot, as a demon. IRL, he’s the most thirsted after character for a reason, after all. He’s gorgeous. But we’re not talking about objective, our world facts here. We’re talking about how he’s perceived in-unvierse. Is anyone in hell (other than Vox, obviously) attracted to this guy, from either a sexual or a platonic standpoint?
Let’s look at the hotel staff first. Charlie? Well, we see Alastor slinking and slithering around her bedroom in ways that would make Vox/most of the fandom orgasm, and she’s mostly weirded or creeped out by it. No signs of attraction there, and while she does come to consider him a friend and is briefly taken in when he flatters her in Dad Beat Dad, for the most part she doesn’t seem to find him charming or personable. Lucifer, definitely not. We’ve seen how he talks to Al. The minute he sees him he dislikes him, he fantasizes about killing him, he insults, derides, and clearly finds him irritating at best. I know people ship them, but there’s no in-universe scene where Lu seems to find Al attractive or charming.
Vaggie seems to find Al a massive headache to talk to and insults him to his face. I know we like to head canon Husk was charmed by him, but he doesn’t reference that. He says he lost his power to him in a card game. It would have been easy to parallel that with Husk and Angel, if Val charmed Angel into his contract and Al did the same. But no. He gambled him for it. Niffty definitely enjoys Alastor’s company, but even she, who comes on to every “bad boy” she meets, doesn’t seem to find him sexually attractive. That leaves Angel, who did briefly come onto Alastor in 1x01. But even Angel calls him “Mr. Fancy Talk Creepy Voice”, and only hits on him once, compared with Husk who he comes onto at every available opportunity. So even the hotel’s horniest staff member doesn’t seem to find Alastor all that attractive, and aside from Nifty, nobody at the hotel seems to like hanging with Al much.
What about the rest of hell? Well, Val and Vel clearly don’t find Al attractive; Val says he doesn’t understand what Vox sees in “that imbecile, when I am here, beautiful, beautiful!”, implying that Alastor isn’t good looking. The people on Vel’s livestream say his hair looks greasy; we haven’t seen any thirst tweets about him in-unvierse as far as I can tell, whereas thirst tweets have been made on the livestreams about every other character who pops up on screen. All 3 vees and Charlie, even at her most unpopular with the public, got thirst tweets. So clearly being an overlord or unpopular with the public doesn’t disqualify you from thirst tweets. There’s Mimzy, who seems to like his company somewhat, but she did know him asa human, so it’s debatable if that counts. I can’t find anyone in-nuvierse who has called Alastor attractive, and very few who seem to find him charming or personable. (An interesting contrast with Vox, whose charisma is basically his only superpower.)
Now, I also don’t think this is for lack of Alastor trying! It’s not that he just doesn’t give a fuck, since obviously he needs people to trust or work with him. He does try often to be charming and pleasant on first meeting. In the “Day in the Afterlife” comic, it even seems to somewhat bother him that people run away on seeing him. He’s really irritated that Lucifer almost immediately hates him, since his initial comments to the king are mostly pleasant. He’s annoyed that Carmilla doesn’t want to pay attention to him. He definitely wants to be able to charm people into doing what he wants, like he could in real life. For instance, when Husk talks to him in 1x05, his first instinct is to charm and sweet talk him into not worrying about it. Husk pushes him too far and he finally snaps and relies on intimidation. But charm is clearly his go-to instinct: He tries to charm Rosie into letting him quit the hotel in 2x04, He obviously weaponizes his charm and sex appeal against Vox in s2, the only person it actually works on, he tries to smooth talk Charlie in 1x07 and she’s having none of it; he has to basically blackmail her into making a deal with him. This all contrasts dramatically with Vox, who when he’s at his best can persuade other Overlords, who you’d assume would be smarter than that, into going along with his ridiculous plans on sheer charisma points alone.
What does make this interesting, too, is that in contrast, alongside his rizz points, Vox appears to be an in-universe sex symbol. He’s part of the Vees, who are considered hot, and in-universe was voted the hottest person in hell. Which on the surface makes no sense. Alastor is a humanoid bishonen with a slightly awkward haircut and creepy smile, Vox has a freaking TV for a head. (Not saying I don’t get the IRL Vox thirst, I 1000% do). But objectively speaking, it doesn’t make any sense that hell finds TV-head man hotter than Alastor. I think it’s somewhat comparable to Toons in Roger Rabbit - Roger is to Toons a more eligible catch than Jessica because he’s funnier and a star, whereas humans see a pinup dating a goofy bunny. Maybe since most of hell is demonoid, sex appeal has less to do with being conventionally pretty and more to do with vibes and aura. But in any case, it is pretty clear that in-unvierse Alastor is considered less attractive than Vox, and indeed doesn’t seem to be regarded as attractive, charming, or appealing - facts that obviously annoy him, despite how much he likes being feared, probably because 1, he was used to being able to smooth-talk and charm people as a human, and 2. It makes to harder to get what he wants. However, it’s also true that this doesn’t seem to bother him as much as you’d think it would, and while a lot of that maybe yes, is because he likes being feared, I think there’s another factor in why he isn’t quite so miffed as you’d think he’d be:
Because he’s spent 70+ years with Vox being obsessed with him. He’s had someone who must make him feel attractive and sexy, who is so weak for him it makes him stupid, for most of his afterlife. Even if most of hell finds him creepy and off-putting, and even if Vox is constantly trying to pretend he’s over him, Vox finds him attractive, and I’d imagine alongside Vox’s adoration for his other qualities, that’s gotta make Alastor feel good. So I’d imagine that he’s never become too insecure about his appeal because hey, if hell’s “hottest” bachelor is still into him, then he must still have it. I’d imagine that validation has felt pretty good, especially if everyone else acts like he’s creepy and unappealing now. Among, of course, the other forms of validation Vox’s interest in him has provided.
I mean, like the posts have said, I’m sure Alastor does in part enjoy being feared and seen as scary, but I also think he doesn’t like that people aren’t as easily drawn in by him as they used to be. This post theorized it’s part of his punishment (especially of the theory that he drew his victims in with his femme fatale-style seduction is true, probably meant to be part of his karma) to be seen as less pretty in hell. Alastor does rely on charisma as much as on fear, and I think it does in fact annoy him that it doesn’t work as well anymore. Except with Vox. Who won’t be available to thirst after him in the near future. Very interesting to see how Alastor will cope with the only person in hell who seems to find him attractive being MIA now.
Again, objectively, Alastor is hot and charismatic. It just seems like nobody, one TV-headed idiot excepted, seems to find him so in-universe.
with how full of gender/expression fuckery the Vees already are just by having Val crossdressing casually and Vel being a doll that can be taken apart and is able to alter herself however, i'm really curious what Vox's internal perception of himself in that regard is. because he fits in with them so well, biomechanical, can remove parts of his body, like his heads and change them out, as well as the fact that things like his voice and anything on his screen is inherently artificial to some degree and something he can just switch out at will. i'd really like to know if Vox is aware of that or if he's never consciously acknowledged how much gender expression potential he'd have just because he doesn't capitalize on it
because Vox sticking to his usual looks and not changing them every scene like Vel/Val is fine, makes sense since up until now he's always taken the reasonable leader role of the Vees that's the rock and voice of reason while his business partners can be pretty impulsive and if people like him and his persona why even think about changing anything. but that does always make it way more funny to me when he does an impression of someone and suddenly commits so hard to it doesn't just copy their voice but makes it really pop by also imitating their face
it's just kind of cool to me that the Vees are all inherently able to alter their appearance in really drastic ways, and it makes it even more interesting that Vox's chooses to not take advantage of it
Funnily enough, I think it's the other way around, re: not changing his persona if people like it. Because every time he's changed his outfit in the present day, it's been for an advertisement, a public appearance, a televised appearance, or matching with Velvette during Speedrun to Redemption. In private, he's never changed it beyond taking off his suit jacket. Even looking at past outfits, it's always sweater vests/sweaters paired with a shirt or jacket. So I think a lot of his sticking to one style really is because he chooses to, not because he hasn't thought about experimenting.
And I do think he's experimented, because his expression/presentation is subtly genderqueer. For one thing, plenty of characters of both sexes wear heeled shoes, and the art style usually simplifies all shoes to have sharp heels when viewed from a distance. But it does the opposite with Vox, who actually does wear pointed heels; the one time he's wearing wide heels, the art style reflects that even at a distance. So it seems like more "masculine" footwear isn't his preference.
Beyond that, while his physical appearance doesn't change much apart from head and wardrobe upgrades over the years, his mannerisms and the way he carries himself change dramatically and frequently. And he doesn't seem to have a particular preference for how he comes across to others, which is saying a lot from someone who cares about public perception as much as Vox does.
He's still very much taking part in the gender/expression fuckery, but it mostly shows up in his behavior, not his appearance. Though he doesn't seem remotely self-conscious about imitating Charlie with other people around, so I honestly don't think it would bother him to appear more feminine. He just likes dressing in a particular way that happens to come across as masculine, and he's retained some variation of that style for decades.
It's rather ironic from someone whose whole thing is change, but I think Vox is the Vee who just doesn't want to. Sure, he could. And he does make the changes he wants to make (mostly to his head). But for the most part it's like. His gender is one of the few things he isn't insecure about. He's very comfortably genderqueer, and really does not care how it looks to other people.
Speaking of Brighter, we see that Vox's murders are reflected in his sinner form.
Has has cables because he strangles his producers with cables. He has electricity because he used lightning to kill the old network owner. He has shark like traits because he killed a guy with a shark. He can summon his weather stick like Alastor does his staff and Angel his tommy guns, suggesting it's his intended weapon by hell/magical girl standards.
So can his sinner form manifest gas and explosions to kill people as well, since that's how he killed the cooking show host? And why about the game show guy? Can he summon a wheel to crush people?
I love "magical girl standards" as an explanation for the weapons, lol.
You know what, sure. Let's break this down.
The news anchor: killed by his own hand, using his weather pointer. Reflected in his sinner form by a weapon summon.
The talk show host: killed by his own hand, using a stage light. Not technically reflected in his sinner form, though having a glowing screen for a face is functionally the same thing.
The producers: killed by his own hand, using cables. Reflected in his sinner form by cables/wires.
The animal guy: technically killed by a shark, but the shark was an animal with no say in the matter, so it counts as a murder weapon. Reflected in his sinner form by shark traits (said traits could also have been influenced by his place of death being an abandoned aquarium, and by his own love of sharks).
The cook show host: killed through sabotage by cutting a gas line. Not reflected in his sinner form, because someone else struck the match that caused the explosion.
The game show host: killed through sabotage by loosening the screw holding the wheel in place. Not reflected in his sinner form, because someone else spun the wheel.
The network owner: killed by his own hand, again using his weather pointer (which acted as a lightning rod). Reflected in his sinner form by electricity (could also have come from his cause of death including electrocution).
Conclusion: the murders he personally committed are reflected in his sinner form, with the exception of the stage light. The ones that were basically traps he set aren't. Though he still likes setting traps.
see a while ago I decided i actually DO think vox and angel have fucked at some point in their timeline, exactly once and at great psychological cost to them both. for one reason or another Vox finally agreed to the threesome Val has been begging for since the 70s, and obviously Angel was never going to be given a choice in the matter, so that's great. and the entire experience is just a catastrophic nightmare on every level imaginable. it sucks and NOT in a fun fucked up hot way. it's painfully awkward and difficult and a little bit traumatic but like, banally so. Every step of the process gets turned into a whole sisyphean ordeal. Vox needs to be heavily dosed on magical aphrodisiacs just to get in the game, and even then he is visibly cringing every time he remembers it's Angel that's touching him. Angel's stuck in a position where Val obviously wants him to Engage In The Sex and appeal to the fantasy, which he could totally do, except Vox wants him to stay still and shut up so they can get through this as quickly as possible, and either of them are liable to hurt him for fucking up. Val is trying so hard to make this work, getting Vox worked up and fully deploying his power as Hell's greatest porn director, but no amount of outside interference can save this situation. nobody has a good time and it makes the vox/angel dynamic immeasurably worse thereafter. the end.
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