I’m critical of Charlie Morningstar because I want better for her character. You’re critical of Charlie Morningstar because you hate female characters who are anything but perfect. We are NOT the same
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I’m critical of Charlie Morningstar because I want better for her character. You’re critical of Charlie Morningstar because you hate female characters who are anything but perfect. We are NOT the same
listen. if you find out your friend is being abused, you do everything you can to help them get away from their abuser. like literally the abuser and all their friends become enemy #1.
why the fuck is Charlie inviting the vees into her fucking house she shares with angel and NOT LISTENING to him when he says NO? And im supposed to LIKE her?????
angel is a rape victim. In about 80% of his life he is not allowed to say no. and now, at the one place he’s supposed to have autonomy, Charlie takes it away. He says no, he brings up boundaries, and she REFUSES TO LISTEN. this is the girl who is ANGELS THERAPIST. Charlie is quickly becoming one of my least favorite characters. The more i think about it, the more I hate her.
I'm rewatching the Hazbin Hotel pilot after quite some time and I noticed a few key differences that make the pilot more enjoyable in my opinion. I have talked about this exact thing several times now, but I'm always coming back with more cause it's not just nostalgia after waiting five years
First of all, the pilot actually utilizes facial expressions and soundtracks instead of overexplaining everything. And despite the sound effects being too frequent and frankly overstimulating, it makes watching far more enjoyable since it's not throwing every little bit of information straight into your face.
The characters feel more alive not only thanks to the bouncy animation style, but they're also far more expressive. Instead of explaining their emotions to the audience they can just make a silly face. Because of the corporate inbreeding, the show characters are too stiff to actually express any feelings.
There's silly background music during the car ride back to the hotel, and a sad melancholic tune plays while Charlie attempts to call her mom. It's slightly too loud which makes it hard to focus on the dialogue, but it helps set the mood.
There is far. Less. Swearing. The dialogue flows smoothly and is actually funny instead of grating on my ears. And the words have actual substance to them! You can't tell me "the world is a stage, and a stage is a world of entertainment" doesn't go hard. Unlike the actual show, the pilot doesn't try impossibly hard to produce a staggering amount of clever one-liners to be funny. The comedy aspects are sprinkled into the dialogue and happen naturally. God, the bar really is horrendously low.
GOD I fucking love the Hazbin Hotel Pilot soundtrack. It’s so magical and whimsical and sets the tone perfectly. Gooseworx composed it, I think. I love all of it, but my fav from there is “The World Is A Stage,” it goes from all menacing and foreboding to immediate an 1920s type jingle, which encompasses Al’s character perfectly. Like as soon as he walked through that damn door and started yapping about the Stock Market crash with that goofy 1920s jingle in the background, you could just immediately tell what era he was from. Unfortunately we don’t get that in the show, the era each character is from is fr a guessing game.
I miss this charlie
As someone who used to be a huge husk3rdu$t fan when the pilot first came out I heavily dislike the ship in the actual series because of the way the characters are written.
Angel Dust sexually harasses Husk, which to be fair is something he also did in the pilot. However in the show after Husk rejects his """advances""" he throws a glass bottle that nearly hits Husk in the face and never apologizes for it.
Husk, who may I add by the new canon of the show used to be an Overlord who sold his soul to keep his power (which he obtained by exploiting others), calls Angel a loser when he knows he is an SA victim and even tries to compare his situation with Alastor to the one Angel Dust has with Valentino.
Outside all of this another reason is that the relationship feels so forced. Viv doesn't know how to write actual chemistry between two characters so, instead to make you ship two characters she will make all of the relationships sorrounding said characters awful and/or nonexhistant.
In the pilot there is nothing to suggest Alastor owns Husk soul to the point when first watching it I got the impression Husk only owed a favor to Alastor (which acourding to kendraws, who wrote the pilot for Hazbin, is how he inteded their dynamic to be).
In the show we find out Husk sold his soul to Alastor that forces him to work at the hotel. This change is forced and was obviously done to draw a parallel between him and Husk so that the audience would ship them. I don't hink it's a coincidence that in the next episode Alastor treathens Husk. It feels like the writers had the sudden relization that in order for us to know Alastor is abusive towards Husk they had to gives us some actual examples.
On the scene itself it feels so out of character for Alastor, why would someone that is inteded to be a master manipulator, who despite knowing how powerful he is prefers to use his own brain, completly lose their temper and act so violent at such a minor inconvenience, wouldn't it make more sense for him to try and manipulate Husk by guilt tripping him? The real answer here is that the authors simply wanted to push a parallel between the scene were Valentino treathens Angel and Alastor treathening Husk. Even Loser Baby tries to draw a parallel between the two.
Everyone already pointed out how Cherri Bomb was turned into a jerk in the main show and shown barely interact with Angel to push his relationship with Husk as more important but something similar can be said for Sir pentious.
You know how the show wants us to believe Husk, Angel dust and Sir pentious are great friends after their time spent at the hotel, despite never having them actually bond together? Well it's because they, didn't want us to get attached to any other relationship other than husk3rdu$t so they just decided to never show the two interact, otherwhise if Sir pentious had an actual reason to care about Husk and Angel than people might start shipping him with one of the two, or even both.
It sucks to see how badly this dynamic has fallen for me since the pilot I don't think I have ever been so dissapointed to see a fanon ship I enjoyed become canon. I have no interest in the whole "will they won't they" that the show tries to ricreate because viv herself already confirmed husk3rdu$t will be a slowburn romance.
THIS THIS THIS ALL OF THIS
If there is anything I love and wanted to see from Charlie (and not the Prime Charlie, sadly) is her potential of being an MC with doubts. I love how the pilot episode Charlie has doubts if her dreams will work because hell isn’t very kind to it. It also made me want to know more why Lucifer and Charlie had some (not-so-great) relationship at her own teens. I really though she is being sheltered all the time as a child and that kind of negatively influenced her thinking or doubts as a ‘princess of hell herself’, and I though she wanted to confront her father about everything she is being taught as a child and had to prove it to him that she can do it.
I could see how she feels like she is trying to find the happiness out of all her people but understands that not all of them could see the vision she had (because they indeed accepted their fate and stayed there for a reason).
Vaggie could have some potential for me tbh, especially considered that she is supposed to be Charlie’s friend, (Not GF as the Prime shows, but whatevs) but idk why the writers kind of ditched her character in favor for her being Charlie’s GF, and an angel. I think there is a concept where Vaggie commited s word because she didn’t want to live in shame of being in an industry (idk if it’s true) but I feel like it could have a potential story with Angel Dust (with relatability and such).
You were right about Alastor, Alastor in the Pilot has lots of charm and is very secure, but acknowledges he is still a bad person. A serial k*ller, and a punisher (like in the pilot comic) of the unjust and wicked.
There are potentials for being a slice of life in the Pilot, but alas, Viv and her crew couldn’t see the time as she went into the whole fanservice.
(Sorry, this is like a big rant of mine since I was a Pilot Hazbin Hotel Fan before everything went down)
AORRY I DIDNT ANSWER THIS ONE EARLIER!!!!
YESS CHARLIE SHOULD DOUBT HERSELF.
My issue with Charlie in Prime is that when things don’t go the way she intended them to, the show will pin the blame on the rest of the cast and baby Charlie INSTEAD of having Charlie face her own issues so that she can actually learn. The show is allergic to writing her as “in the wrong” and this drives me insane because it absolutely kills any room for growth from her as a character.
Also SINNER VAGGIE!! We all chant in unison
Why she is of Hispanic origin but is also heaven born. It erases her culture/background and takes away from her character. She is supposed to be Hispanic representation but we barely see how. All we know is that she can speak Spanish.
It would have given her a lot more depth if they’d stuck to her being born and raised in El Salvador.
Because, like, OKAY, here’s a Filler Episode Idea I had: Vaggie showing Charlie things about her culture and teaching her about these things because they’re really special to her, and Charlie being really attentive and enthusiastic about it, and then the rest of the cast curiously joining in too and AGH mY HEART ❤️🩹😢
And yeah I remember hearing abt that concept too ughhhhg it’s so sad. But you’re right. It gives her relatability & I genuinely want to see Vaggie bonding with the other hotel patrons toooooo….
I’m glad you agree with me about Al! And please rant as much as you want I’ll be happy to listen lol
This might make you feel better, (or worse?) but Husk apparently wasn't intended to be an Overlord. One of the main contributing writers to the Hazbin Hotel pilot, Kendraws, confirmed it in the comment section of this video.
https://youtu.be/8lZSYgVKVtc?si=Dcg4Qh5QvzWzH7Hy
He was never intended to have his soul owned by Alastor either. Husk was just there at the hotel because of a favor he owed Alastor and was paying back by being the bartender. (Which honestly explains why Husk owned a casino a bit better, VS the back flips in logic/fix-it-headcanons you'd need to explain why Husk would own a casino while also no longer having Overlord status for probably decades at that point?) It seems like it was a change to make HuskerDust more believable, rather than have them bond overtime through their interests, or by mutually spending time together like they did in the Instagrams.
But I do honestly get you. I hate that they took away his unique paws/claw hands because they looked more animal like, and now he just has the same big ass yaoi hands/wide wrist arms that Carmilla and Blitz AND Barbie Wire have. I hate that we never see him get visibly drunk or gamble, I hate that he, a bartender, which is one of his only defining traits since he barely gambles or drinks, can't make a certain drink in S2, I hate that he says the bottom of a bottle won't get Angel anywhere, when he's the last person who should be saying that, (It makes me feel like they needed to make him the more stable one for HuskerDust to work, which can just barely be excused by the fact that Husk is older, except not really, because Angel is the one who's been in Hell longer, not Husk. And besides, why does Husk care about Angel overdrinking anyway? It's not like they've got liver failure to worry about anymore,) and I especially hate how Husk passive aggressively acts like Angels progress at the hotel is dependent on his drug and alcohol use, when the whole point of Loser Baby is that he doesn't give a shit if Angel is a "coked up dick sucking hoe", on top of Husk not giving a shit about the hotel or redemption to begin with. He just randomly starts caring because of shit that happens off screen, like him bonding with Sir Pentious, and when we get to S2, he'll probably be supportive of everyone because he Has to be.
In retrospect, he's a pretty useless character narratively in both the Pilot and show, as much as I do like his concept. His existence is just barely justified by Alastor wanting entertainment for himself by providing a vice in a place that's meant to send sinners up to Heaven. It makes me wish that Husk was utilized more by maybe Alastor forcing him to also try to pursue redemption and participate in Charlies games for his own amusement. It could show that Husk doesn't have a choice in what Alastor wants and make Alastors actions mirror Valentinos even more. (Since that's what the show is obviously trying to do, and as much as I want to respect it that they aren't afraid to make a main character be parallel one of the worst villains in the show, that same "worst villain in the show" is also a brain dead moron for comedy who only seems capable of making sex jokes and/or threatening/being implied to rape one of the other main characters, so Who cares tbh) I think it would also sell that Husk truly doesn't have any agency in the hotel, just like how Angel doesn't around Valentino, because the most we get is a scene where Alastor threatens Husk immediately after Husk rightfully called him out on Alastors bullshit. Husks treatment compared to what Angel receives at his work place is practically nothing.
They might do that idea of Alastor forcing participation in S2 if that one shot of Husk tied up as a damsel in distress on a set of train tracks is any indication, but who knows. I'm dropping Hazbin Hotel (And Helluva Boss because the Stolas dick riding is CRAZY) after this season wraps up anyway.
drheoofjgwjgkqkglqkgkwfkwkfkwkvofkwdv of courssssse they didn't fjddjrjhkrjgahdjsjdjd
yeah you're right about the hands actually they both literally and figuratively declawed him huh...... based on the comments of that video since viv said they'd make ships canon if enough fanart came out (which certainly helps explain why the shipping side of the fandom is. especially bad) they saw how popular huskerdust was, didn't get the reason ppl liked it tbh me neither honestly and tried to make them foils- but while angels past in the mafia could never excuse what he suffers under valentino, husk is just sorta. karma got him. steal too many souls and when you lose them for whatever reason you let your soul get stealen for scraps of power. that's not sympathetic that's how dr faciller died,,,, you have got me curious on that drink he can't make tho,,, im guessing something like velvettes love potions????
i think with that whole caring for angels addiction shebang i think it's a pattern where sad twink gay man is comforted by his dom pansexual boyfriend. them, stolitz and fizzozzie are at least three different couples who share that similarity- that scene where hes like 'i thought you were better then this' does sound a wholleee like stolas 'oh nooooooo i never looked down on you woe is meeeeeee'
tbf ive heard that in a lot of achaholics cases they're fully aware of how harmful the addiction is???? if i had to guess from an experienced pov, it's that their 'high' they get isn't actually that good, you feel like shit both when you're hungover and you're drinking, no grand hallucinations or fun i can smell colours just. sloggish. but he's in hell, and he's insecure and lonely and whatever and what else is he gonna do???? he's got nothing to him. maybe he never had anything. but yeah it is because of the shows weird ass morality and because he has to care about angel but still be a tsundere so victim blaming is obviously the only way to do that /s
just let my man be a depressed sack of shit who saw horrifying things that turned him into a husk of who he used to be- drinking and gambling doesn't even give him a thrill, not anymore but he doesn't know anything else, not when the days seem to blend in and it all feels meaningless and he doesn't resist the hotel because what's the fucking point,, i do like your idea of him being forced to try and redeem himself- there could be a lot to say on how abusers will force ppl to 'get better' and give them the false hope of escaping before going 'you can never leave me because we are both fucked up and you're worse because you stay anyway' ignoring the fact that he can't leave
that super old comic where val kills fat nuggets and he's like 'ooooooo angel look what you made me do' but it's like. idk husks wings getting ripped up or some sorta symbol/object of his freedom cleaved in two
It’s a smaller detail but I like how pilot Charlie has this manic happy energy going for her sometimes, during which she can be as unhinged as the other sinners in a fun way. That plus how she is a lot more comfortable with other sinners (when they aren’t not directly berating her) than her show counterpart. She’s smiling even when she’s being chased down by axe-wielding maniacs in Inside of Every Demon is a Rainbow. Never once does she show apprehension or fear or being pearl-clutching when she’s singing about all kinds of sinner in Hell. She foams at the mouth with that one crazy dog lady. She looks like she’s really with her people, comfortable among them, no matter how rancid or degenerate they look. And one can argue those are all in her head, but you can see the remnant of this joy when she greets Husker later fully starry eyed and slightly shocks him for a second with how passionate she is about him joining.
You don’t see this in the actual show. If anything A Happy Day in Hell undoes this part of Charlie, by making her acting very much uncomfortable around and bothered by Hell’s denizens. Granted the sinners are being unhinged, but Charlie always looks like she doesn’t want to go near them and can’t look at them in the eyes, and this is so not a good look for her. We also never see Charlie interact with regular sinners after that, and the only exception, her interactions with the cannibals, are also very barebone. It also turns Charlie from someone who’s naive but good-willed to someone who’s extremely out of touch. This is a very sad regression of character depth to see, at least for me.
Agreed. Pilot Charlie was the perfect balance of manic happy, normal levels of happy, compassion and chaos. She felt like she belonged in this world, that she was truly her peoples' princess even if they didn't appreciate her. I miss that.
So I finally got to listen to the first song that released for Season 2, here're my thoughts on some of the lyrics and moments that stuck out to me.
“All our guests are family” Girl it’s only been a season and we haven’t seen ANYONE genuinely bond to prove that! What’re you talking about!?
“Cause redemption is possible I really really hope. Cause if it isn’t, then my whole life’s been a fucking joke” Too late for that Charlie, you fail as a protagonist who can’t fight for her friends and family when they’re in danger.
But I kind of love the Vees butting in to take the sinners who left the hotel into their grasp... only for it to be ruined.
"Trust us!" Even though you kicked the sinner out when they’re no longer useful to you? How do you expect them to trust you now?
Okay, overall… the song was alright. The instrumental was really good but the lyrics were very contradictory from how the previous season played out.
You are so on point about pilot Charlie. She is essentially set up to be a tragic character, who put on a brave joyful face for the world that might not have a place for her, in hope of bringing out happiness and compassion from people’s heart. She’s there for others at the cost of her own. And she’s not oblivious to how unsound her plan might be, but she really wants it to work despite the odds. It’s what makes her relatable.
And then it comes to the show. Every character changes more or less from their pilot counterparts, but I always find Charlie to suffer the greatest loss because, look how they massacred my girl? It doesn’t help that we see very little of her and the hotel residents or regular sinners having meaningful, beyond surface level interactions.
Your earlier post about Alastor also got some cool ideas! Him being a secure man would also contrast nicely with Vox or Charlie, both of whom have some insecurities going on.
I want to share this little headcanon with you on topic of Al: Where Al sees his arriving in Hell as a natural consequence of his actions on earth (he won’t say he’s a good man, he killed a lot, it’s natural for him to go to hell), but also a continuation of it. He had taken out scums in life, and he would continue to do so in death. He’s probably too humble to say he is part of the divine punishment towards loathsome sinners, but it does feel destined to some extent, and he would gladly make it his partial duty. It’s in his name too! Alastor is said to mean “avenging/punishing spirit” in Greek mythos. I figure it might be a better motivation than the canon “wanting to be the strongest sinner”.
Anyways, sorry about the rambling! It’s always good to find people who share similar ideas on Charlie.
Dude omg no because I 100% agree with you on this headcanon. Screaming reading this because that's how I've always viewed Alastor, actually. And the Greek mythology makes it even better. I actually didn't know that! That's so PERFECT.
DON'T apologize! I love reading rants like this so MUCH. Seeing stuff like this in my inbox truly makes my day. I'm sososo happy that my own manic rant resonated with you. It's why I'm putting stuff out there in the first place. :)
GOD YOU GET IT
PILOT HAZBIN FOR THE WINNNN
SOO REALLL I’M GLAD YOU AGREE!!!
PILOT HAZBIN 🔛🔝
The Tragedy of Charlie Magne | (Pilot) ANALYSIS + Fanon Stuff!
So I hear a lot of people complain that Charlie is a protagonist missing any depth. And when it comes down to the execution of her character in Prime, I… don’t disagree with that. But—I wanna take a closer look at something.
Charlie Magne isn’t shallow. She’s a tragedy wrapped in optimism, and the pilot quietly told us that in a two-minute song.
Let’s take a look at it together! I love analysis, it’s just so fun. I think a lot of people just ignore this or something, or maybe this flies over people’s heads, I don’t know—but the pilot alludes to some serious potential trauma rooted in Charlie’s character.
“I’m Always Chasing Rainbows”
It’s her starting song for a reason.
“At the end of the rainbow, there's happiness
And to find it how often I’ve tried”
Charlie clearly struggles to feel happy in Hell, much despite her own character. She presents herself as bright and bubbly and confident in the pilot, especially on the outside—for instance, during the interview with Katie Killjoy.
But when she’s alone, we often see her breaking down, crying.
She puts effort into not letting anyone see this side of her—she wipes her tears before entering the hotel. We immediately are struck with a duality—Charlie is struggling with something that she doesn’t let anyone see. She only lets the outside world see the blinding ray of sunshine she can be, while keeping the thunderous rainstorm inside of her hidden.
I don’t know how recent of an idea of the “Happy Hotel” was to her, but the lyrics she’s singing alludes to a past full of painful, failed passion projects.
“But my life is a race, just a wild goose chase
And all my dreams have been denied”
It paints this sort of picture of a young, creative, imaginative Charlie who grew up entertaining all sorts of ideas. Ideas—apparently which never saw the light. It makes me wonder how many other dreams Charlie may have tried to pursue before the Happy Hotel.
Charlie struggles to find happiness—she thinks she’ll be able to find it in these “dreams,” which she has been “denied”. She’s aware of her miserable failings, but it doesn’t stop her, because she still thinks she can find it.
Why ‘Bad Communication’ Isn’t Enough
“Why have I always been a failure
What can the reason be
I wonder if the world's to blame
I wonder if it could be me”
This part is fascinating because as she sings “Why have I always been a failure,” Lucifer’s silhouette crosses over her—this already illustrates an unspoken answer. Even if he’s not physically there, his judgment fills the room.
The most common argument I see people make regarding this scene is “Charlie just misunderstood Lucifer because he’s bad at communicating.”
I don’t fully disagree with this, but I largely dislike this argument because it oversimplifies trauma. According to her own song, Charlie is constantly feeling like a failure—like nothing she does ever amounts to anything. As if nothing she does has any value. She even goes as far to blame herself—“I wonder if it could be me”—for never being enough—for being the problem all along.
“I don’t know if I’m going to make a difference.”
“I don’t know what I’m doing…”
“I think dad was right about me.”
During her voicemail to Lilith—Charlie clearly feels like she can’t trust her own good conscience anymore because of how truly insecure she is. She feels lost.
This is heartbreaking. This isn’t just “bad communication.” This pattern of thinking—more often than not—stems from a lifelong pattern of repeated emotional neglect. This is where I think the “Lucifer was retconned” argument comes in.
The thing is, Prime does try to halfway-sort-of introduce this conflict between Charlie and Lucifer—but resolves it in a single episode—often leaving the audience to forget there was even a conflict in the first place.
It explains why barely anyone—even the fandom—takes Charlie’s feelings seriously.
That’s why this aspect of the show is always a topic of heavy criticism. Because of how “rushed” it is. Because of how they just throw Charlie’s feelings away like that. Because of how fake it feels. Because realistically, years of emotional trauma to this extent—alluded to in the pilot—cannot be resolved within a single song.
“I'm always chasing rainbows
Watching clouds drifting by
My schemes are just like all my dreams
Ending in the sky”
In the pilot—Charlie does not only seem to fail in pursuing her dreams, but she even sees them as nonsensical and silly herself. She seems to struggle to take herself seriously—but the way she’s written in Prime makes it so the audience doesn’t take her seriously either. And that is why she isn’t a fan favorite—neither in the fandom nor out of it. Her writing makes her fail as a protagonist.
This was not the right direction to go with her. The show wasn’t supposed to prove Charlie’s insecurities, and say aww it’s okay, and then baby her. The show was supposed to show us why Charlie is wrong, and help her grow and learn.
I think her insecurity is likely a reflection of the way she was parented. Parents often set up the foundation of security. The way you were raised determines if you’re secure or insecure.
“Some fellows look and find the sunshine
I always look and find the rain
And some fellows make a winning sometime
And I never even make a gain”
Charlie also seems to compare herself to others, which is a red flag of behavior that suggests she may have been compared to her peers in childhood—nonetheless a key indicator of emotional neglect.
Now I actually don’t think this automatically confirms Lucifer to be emotionally abusive on purpose. It’s why I think there’s some weight to the previous argument.
Emotional neglect is not always about what did happen, it’s about what didn’t. Lucifer might've been a loving father, but that doesn’t make him a good one. His “inadequacies” in certain areas clearly had a devastating impact on Charlie, whether he meant to do that or not.
When it comes down to it, I think of my own dad who was very involved in my life—but it was the little things that affected me in the end—the things that didn’t happen enough. Things like:
- Brushing aside emotions
- Being told she is too much at times
- Not enough praise towards her own character—praise geared towards prestige/achievement
- Not showing how she is loved at every stage of her life—the child begins to wonder how she can earn that love back—she forms an identity around praise (prestige/achievement)
- Constant critique on how she should improve her own achievements
- Lack of support/interest for the child’s own individuality or hobbies
You can have a silly, goofy father that loves you, but you can still have all of this. I would know. I don’t think it matters what Lucifer’s intentions were. The damage is clearly done, and it’s hit Charlie very hard.
The Rainbow Metaphor
Actually—look at the symbolism here. Charlie’s other song, Inside Of Every Demon Is A Rainbow, seems simply silly and whimsical at first. But when you compare it to her song at the beginning, you stumble across a startling metaphor.
“At the end of the rainbow, there’s happiness.”
“I’m always chasing rainbows.”
“Inside of every demon is a rainbow.”
Rainbow = Happiness.
Chasing Rainbows = Charlie desperately seeking out happiness.
Inside of every demon is a rainbow = Her happiness lies with the people of hell.
I see Charlie as someone who continually puts others above herself because she believes she is unworthy. I believe Charlie spent her entire childhood believing that she wasn’t enough, that she wasn’t important, that her feelings were irrelevant, and that if she could just work a little harder, she could finally make a difference, and only then could she finally matter. She finally wouldn’t be a failure. She’d finally be loved.
I see Charlie as someone who’ll stop at nothing to redeem her people—because she’s got it in her head that if she can’t even do this, then she really can’t do anything—that she’s failed her people, her father, and herself.
And once she realizes that, she’ll realize Hell is entirely better off without her. Because she’s the odd one out. The oddity. The defect.
Because her parents never told her she was already enough as is.
Hazbin Hotel’s Original Premise
This automatically sets up a driving force: Charlie sacrificing her health, overworking herself (I always imagined her as a workaholic), forgoing her needs, putting all of herself into this hotel, because, in a way, the state of the hotel symbolizes her fragile emotional state. If it’s successful, she’s happy. If it’s failing, she’s lost.
It sets up devastation: if redemption does indeed not work, Charlie will question everything—her worth, her value, her life. It sets up fear, agony, and tragedy.
That’s why redemption already works as the perfect antagonist. If the show were to focus more on redemption, it would create a continuous, shadowing overarching conflict (which realistically should have extended for a couple of seasons—perhaps the whole show). It would have allowed a ton more development on the characters (since they’d be fighting themselves, with redemption as the antagonist) and we would have been able to thoroughly explore their arcs—including Charlie’s arc.
The pilot didn’t simply start with any whimsical little song. It started with a cry for help.
I firmly believe that people mischaracterize Charlie when they say that her blinding optimism stems from naïveté.
Charlie isn’t stupid. She’s educated. She doesn’t take shit from other demons! She doesn’t trust Alastor. She firmly sets her boundaries and does not make a deal with him—she would never do that!
Charlie isn’t someone who just stands off to the side in the face of prejudice, cruelty, or injustice. She wouldn’t let Valentino lick her fucking arm, or just let Angel Dust, her friend, be mistreated! She stands her ground. She isn’t someone who pouts and whines “That’s so meeeaan,” when confronted regarding her usage of power. That is an awful and painful mischaracterization. Of course she has restraint, but Charlie Magne has always been someone who is unafraid to use her power to fight for what she knows is right.
Charlie Magne isn’t shallow. She’s a tragedy wrapped in optimism, and the pilot quietly told us that in a two-minute song. Charlie is a strong, beautiful, intelligent young woman and her optimism doesn’t stem from naïveté—it stems from survival.
And that, to me, is an incredible protagonist worth rewriting.
Shoutouts to hazbin "fans" who are horribly triggered by and against the source material but feel attached to the potential or idea of the characters (me) /gen
"I miss Charlie entering her "demon form" when she was happy. It was so wholesome that her truest form came out when she was excited, even if said truest form was quite monstrous. Also the "*starts shifting into their true, scary form when they're angry*" trope is a bit overdone. Though I guess it was nice seeing Charlie briefly loose her shit at Valentino....wish Angel hadn't stopped her, that mfer deserved everything that was coming to him."
Submitted by @www-sees-nothing
there’s a lot I don’t like about hazbin hotel, most of the points I agree with having been beaten to death by now, but I think one of my least favorite things about it is Charlie and her character in the show v the pilot.
In the pilot, it is made clear that Charlie is hopeful and yeah, a little naive. She’s an idealist, an optimistic, but she’s not stupid. She knows her being an optimist in literal hell is silly and seen as a negative, but she doesn’t care because that’s her character. And that’s a good character! It’s one of the reasons Luke Skywalker is so popular (and apologies for bringing Star Wars into this but it’s a good comparison). Luke, at the beginning, is hopeful and a little naive. By the end of the trilogy, that naivety has been beaten out of him, but he is still, ultimately, that hopeful character we see in a new hope. this could’ve been a great arc for Charlie over a couple seasons, but by the time we get to the show….
Charlie in the official show is portrayed as a child. Her hope has been turned into a child’s ignorance. She brings badly done crayon drawings to what might as well be the most important meeting of her life. She says the best way to make up for attempted murder and betrayal of the thing she worked so hard for is to say “sorry” and then forgives pentious without another thought (and tbh this has always rubbed me the wrong way. there could’ve been some real conflict of Charlie allowing him to stay but distrusting him and sir pentious realizing this is what he wants and truly trying to redeem himself, Charlie and pentious becoming close friends in the process. it would’ve made his sacrifice hit that much harder, but I digress). She is treated, by the narrative and the characters around her, as stupid. And it’s so so hard to like her as a character and in turn like the show because this is our main character! This is who im supposed to be rooting for! And instead she’s portrayed as an ignorant child. It’s annoying that something that meant so much to me as a kid is such a trash fire now. I would love to enjoy a show that comments on religion and genocide and redeemtion (with two wlw as leads!) but instead I cannot get behind a single writing choice that they have made with this show. It’s disappointing.
Pilot Alastor Rant + Some Fanon Theorizing
When people talk about Alastor, they rush to slap an explanation on him:
- “His father abused him”
- “He has repressed trauma”
- “He smiles because he’s broken”
…But what if that’s too easy?
Pilot Alastor is secure. He doesn’t need to prove his power or his worth to anyone. Wouldn’t security rather stem from a healthy family life?
(The following sources are taken from the Hellaverse FANDOM Wiki)
Imagine:
- A loving mother and a protective father, trying to raise their only son in a mixed-race Creole household in the 1920s
- Alastor was forced to pass as white for survival, in order to live a “normal” life. They raised Alastor with love, while teaching him to mask his identity in public.
That tension explains so much. Why he speaks with a perfect transatlantic accent. How he was able to have a successful career in life as a “radio star”. Why he knows how to “preform” for society.
…And why his smile isn’t a curse, but rather, a choice. He uses his smile as a terrifying mask of control, rebellion, and confidence.
So how does a secure man become a monster? That’s the terrifying part: he chooses it.
- He kills not from insecurity, but from pure contempt. He sees Hell as full of “such loathsome sinners” (Pilot 2019), full of the cruel, and the hypocrites—and he takes joy in breaking them.
- He has a code—even respect for women—but no mercy for the corrupt.
Alastor’s horror isn’t that he’s broken. It’s that he isn’t. He’s whole, and he likes it this way.
You rarely see that in a character. And that’s what made Pilot Alastor so fascinating.