Jin GuangYao enthusiast

Villain stan, mxtx, JGY is my priority, bingyuan my beloved, beware: incest ships allowed

[jgydidnothingwrong]

Hi, hi!

Twitter is worse everyday, so Tumblr it is!!

Call me Rei!

I'm gonna put my ugly commission table because I totally forgot (as always). Anyway, since I'm unemployed at the moment and the economy sucks, pls consider buy a fanfic!!

[AO3] [Ko-Fi]

[littlesmartart]

look, given the apparent literal month long xiyao sleepovers where they stay up all night talking, I feel like the JGY + QS marriage anthem has to be "me, you and steve"

[subdexter]

like god forbid i ship incest on the incest show

[henshengs]

Well MY controversial opinion is NMJ’s death was primarily LXC and NHS’s faults for not holding an intervention the first time he tried to murder their mutual sworn brother with his giant murder saber. which makes it ultimately the fault of the filial piety system where you’re not expected to take your older brother’s mind altering murder sword away even if he’s trying to murder your other brother.

[espercially]

just saw a tweet that said “chengxian isn’t incest but they both wish it were” and i have never seen truer words

[bounce-a-coin-off-your-witcher]

Oh you're writing a gay smut fic with a fantasy setting? Don't forget to give one of your characters a

[philosophicalparadox]

It’s not that mysterious though.

Anyone carrying a bladed weapon carried oil. (More on that in a sec) Oil is what you use to clean and condition steel, especially, since water will rust it.

Many people in the Middle Ages used scented oils for their skin and hair from noblemen to lowly serfs.

Oil was incredibly abundant and quite cheap. The TYPE of oil however does matter in this.

Sheep oil (rendered from their fat) was very common and used for all manner of things from making soap to treating skin conditions. Rendered sheep fat has a very light texture and is a decent carrier oil without too pungent of a scent. Unfortunately it did rancid fast so it was common to add lots of herbs to it to help preserve it, especially rosemary, borage, marjoram and citron peels. This is how it became a common “perfume” oil used to scent hair skin or clothes. Nearly anyone would have had this handy somewhere.

Rendered pork oil was very common too and was most popular as a cooking oil.

Vegetable oil made from walnuts, almonds and flax seed was by far the most common non-animal oil. Nearly anybody had a bottle of almond or walnut oil in their pantry or on their person. These were by far the most popular oils used for conditioning steel, with walnut oil preferred because its tannins also gave armor a patina that kept it better. Only the absurdly wealthy ever wore polished armor. Everyone else blackened it to make it keep better. Walnut oil is good at doing that.

Walnut oil also works well as a lubricant. People back then DID use sexual lube by the way. No prostitute would be caught dead without it. Their favorite types were walnut and olive oil, though almond oil might be used in a pinch. They also used watered down acacia gum in southern Europe, which was sticky but slick and easy to re-wet.

Olive oil though was THE oil in Europe. It was expensive, comparatively, but obviously people considered it well worth its cost because it was found everywhere south of the Seine and frequently seen in even minor lordly houses or knights quarters much farther north. Considering quite a few people of the time thought it had aphrodisiac qualities when applied as certain way (likely because raw olive oil has a warming effect) I think you can imagine the most common reason it was sought after by men in particular.

Olive oil was also used in medicine and just about any church had some floating around somewhere because it’s conveniently good at treating minor infections and is wonderful for toothaches.

So the mysterious vial of oil isn’t at all mysterious and even if he were carrying it around with the sole intention of using it for sex, that wouldn’t actually be that strange either.

[xagan]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but when a BL/GL actor/actress improvises something, particularly some romantic/sexual gesture, during filming it doesn't mean that their true repressed feelings for their acting partner are boiling out of control and forcing them to break character. It just means that they're good at their job and that their understanding of the fictional character they are playing is deep enough that they can make acting decisions that fit the narrative and said character.

I know most people understand this but I had the most infuriating conversation with a group of BL fans last night and I honestly believe that not saying stuff like this just makes it so much easier for some people to be invasive with actors' personal lives, to the point that they feel like they have a right to send hate to anyone who interacts with their faves

[labyrynth]

very quickly: the expectation that jgy needs to be some kind of working class hero is :/ to begin with, and condemning him for “buying into the system of oppression” is really telling when that’s not a criticism made of anyone else

but the idea that jgy personally is refusing to use his power to uplift the common people is mind bogglingly dumb

i cannot emphasize enough that his primary project for the last decade has been trying to figure out how to get all of the other sects to do their fucking jobs—the jobs they were supposed to have been doing the whole time—so that poor people are less likely to be fucking murdered by monsters.

a concept, if you recall, that was so controversial, nobody questioned that a guy would kill his political opponent’s child over it.

this society balked at “do the jobs you signed up to do,” but it’s somehow jgy’s fault that change is going so slowly? fellas he’s the only one doing anything.

[jgydidnothingwrong]

And in the end of the book, the status quo of powerful sects doing nothing won 😀

[wincist]

some of you really aren’t gonna like this, but a creator’s wishes should never dictate what fan content is produced for a piece of media.

in the past, authors like anne rice have tried to limit the production of fanfiction. but at least rice was honest - she thought this infringed on her copywrite. back in the day, this was considered a valid argument to not create any fanfiction at all for her works.

do you understand what i’m saying? while you may sound valiant for placing a creator’s “discomfort” above the fan’s natural proclivities in fandom, really you’re just continuing to advocate for censorship in fan spaces.

and for anyone who is a creator, or who wants to become one - get comfortable with the rules of the internet. there will be erotic content made of your characters, there will be weird AUs made with your characters. there will be strange pairings and headcanons, no matter if you interact religiously with the fans or not. you cannot stop people from connecting with and wanting to be creative with your characters.

[westiec]

A fandom mindset that really needs to come back: Don't Break the Fourth Wall

Make whatever you want, but don't show it to the original creator. Writers legally cannot read fic of their work. It is a perfectly reasonable boundary for actors not to want erotic art of their characters thrust upon them. Don't link copyright holders to fan merch of their IP. And for the love of fuck, stop @ tagging the people who make the thing you're a fan of to validate your headcanons or rebuke someone else's.

And creators? That goes both ways. Block, mute, ignore, set and enforce whatever boundaries on what you don't want to see, but don't for a minute think you can stop a fandom from being a fandom.

[stephaniematurin]

addendum: if you know a pro writer's ao3 name, NO YOU DON'T

[poorlittleyaoyao]

I am NOT going to drag the same good Jiang Cheng post into Chengyao purgatory with my tags twice in the same evening, so I am making my own post to say:

The big difference, I think, in how Jin Ling's Hardworking Hypercompetent Biological Uncles From Yunmeng manifest their respective mommy issues is that, while both of them are desperate for recognition in order to honor their dead mothers, Jiang Cheng is operating from a place of internal rather than external deficit. He's convinced deep down that he himself is inherently lacking and must therefore earn acclaim/acceptance/affection. Jin Guangyao also believes that acclaim/acceptance/affection must be earned, but perceives this as a deficit of society rather than something lacking in himself. Jin Guangyao knows his worth; Jiang Cheng is desperately apologizing for being himself.

This also informs the way they deal with their respective Fathers Who Don't Love Them Enough Because They Resemble Their Mothers Too Much. Jin Guangyao knows deep down that he and his mother deserve better than his father gives them and ultimately snaps over it. Jiang Cheng... not so much.

[jgydidnothingwrong]

And that's why they're perfect for each other

[madtomedgar]

ok so jin ling is. not a well-adjusted child at all and is incredibly spoiled.

Which means that Jiang Cheng and Jin Guangyao didn’t do a very good job on the parenting their nephew front. We see enough of Jiang Cheng’s approach, and Jin Ling tells us flat out that Jiang Cheng yells at and threatens him all the time, but then gives him whatever he wants. So he’s combining his parents’ parenting styles in a really fun and bad way. 

The only thing we see of Jin Guangyao is him urging Jiang Cheng to go easy on Jin Ling and not be too harsh with him, and the general consensus is that Jin Guangyao is overly permissive and coddles Jin Ling. There’s a theory that this is so he can stay in power longer, and while he wouldn’t complain about that, I don’t think I buy it, and I do buy that he expects Jin Ling to be the next leader of the Jin sect. Otherwise, Jin Guangyao would have to produce an heir, which either means a) accidental incest baby 2! or, b) kill Qin Su and remarry. And since he hasn’t gotten around to that in the 10 or so years they’ve been married, I think it’s because he doesn’t want to, and so has decided to be ok with not having dynastic ambitions.

But! Back to Jin Guangyao’s parenting! I don’t think it’s because he wants Jin Ling to be weak and easily lead. Jin Guangyao didn’t get a real childhood. He was put to work young, and was exposed to the worst parts of the adult world from day one. He probably doesn’t remember a time when he didn’t know what sex was, he’s probably very confused to learn about children who didn’t have a list of chores as long as their arm at age 5. He learned his addition and multiplication tables by helping his mom calculate how many customers she’d have to take to pay for his school or pay off her debt or keep him from being sold. The concept of being a kid is probably something he is desperately jealous he never got to have. And when he gets to Qinghe, he’s given a very adult job as a teen. He and Huaisang are very close in age. Huaisang is a child. Meng Yao is not.

So I think his permissiveness reads more similar to when my mom got. Way. Too. Into. me going to prom (i didn’t really care. i was just there for the chocolate fountain) because she didn’t get to go to hers. Jin Guangyao gets to vicariously have the childhood he believes he would have gotten if his dad had just paid his mom’s contract and brought them to live at Koi Tower like he should have through Jin Ling. So of course he showers him with expensive gifts and wonder-dogs, cultivation training, free time, opportunities to go night-hunting. Of course he lets him play and have an extended childhood instead of enforcing discipline and giving him the sort of duties and responsibilities of a sect heir. On top of that, Jiang Cheng likes to yell and threaten to break Jin Ling’s legs, tell him to not bother coming home if he fucks up, etc, even though he doesn’t mean it. Jin Guangyao has been raised and trained to be a peacemaker, to talk down very angry men in positions of power, and to mediate between them and weaker others. This is the role he fulfilled between Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang (”Please don’t make your brother angry. I won’t be able to protect you anymore.”). So I don’t think he’s undermining Jiang Cheng, at least not consciously. He’s falling back into a role he’s been put into again and again and again. Is this good? No. Is it nefarious? Also no.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

adding OP’s tags because AHHHHHH

[qiu-yan]

gonna be real here boss when it comes to the ancestral hall scene i am 100% on jiang cheng's side

[twilightarc-gm]

Exactly and same.

[alessandriana]

(via cerusee)

[mikkeneko]

File this one under "the character that you the audience find more likeable isn't necessarily the one in the right in this conflict" along with the whole thing with JFM bringing a kid into his wife's household without her permission

[chellsky]

i mean narraration calls it out, the reason why jc is being agro is he considered wwx lwj and wen ning as a reason why lotus pier fell. the ancestral hall is just an exuse for him

note that wwx doesnt even defend himself, just trying to leave, only stopping when jc starts on lwj, he even points out if anything its jc being disrespectful to the ancestral all by starting fights in the middle of it. wwx also points out that he didnt take lwj to any other restricted area so obs hes not strutting around like he was still head disciple

also also not for nothing but he did just save life of both jc and his nephew, along with p much entire upper crust of the cultivation world and yet jc still treats him like shit at the bottom of his shoe instead of what by all rights should be an honored guest

[qiu-yan]

aiyo not this shit again...

the reason why jiang cheng goes aggro isn't just because he blames wei wuxian and lan wangji for the fall of lotus pier, but specifically because wei wuxian brought himself, lan wangji, and wen ning into jiang cheng's house where jiang cheng lives. jiang cheng had plenty of chances to be aggro outside of lotus pier already, so the fact that he's being extra aggro in this scene, in contrast to his behavior during the second siege of the burial mounds, indicates he's not just mad at these people - he's mad that these people are trespassing in his home.

because wei wuxian, as an outsider, has no right to be in lotus pier's ancestral hall. traditionally, the ancestral hall of a clan is open only to members of that clan; it is not a place that guests, no matter how honored, can freely trespass on. wei wuxian, as an outsider, has no right to enter the ancestral hall as he pleases - nor does he have the right to bring lan wangji, another outsider, in with him. even the most honored of guests does not have free rein of his host's home.

perhaps another way to describe the problem here is that wei wuxian is trying to have his cake and eat it too. wei wuxian chose to leave yunmeng jiang: over 13 years ago, when wei wuxian insisted on protecting the innocent wen remnants, he was the one who told jiang cheng to cast him aside; then, after wei wuxian's resurrection, wei wuxian's continued avoidance of jiang cheng made it clear that he no longer considered himself a member of yunmeng jiang.

now, this is an entirely valid decision for wei wuxian to make! it's wei wuxian's life, he can live it however he wishes, and it is entirely within wei wuxian's rights to ditch jiang cheng and lotus pier! but decisions have consequences. rights and duties go hand in hand: if wei wuxian is unwilling to commit to the duties of being a member of yunmeng jiang, then wei wuxian is not entitled to the rights reserved for members of yunmeng jiang. being permitted into the private areas of lotus pier is not a universal privilege available to everyone, but is rather a right reserved exclusively for members of yunmeng jiang. meanwhile, as cerusee's screenshotted tags above state, being considered a member of a family or sect entails certain duties and responsibilities, the least of which is not avoiding your own sect leader. since all of wei wuxian's actions indicate he no longer considers himself a part of yunmeng jiang - that he no longer considers himself beholden to the duties of being a member of yunmeng jiang - wei wuxian can no longer justifiably claim the perks of being a member of yunmeng jiang. rights and duties go hand in hand; to try to claim the former while shirking the latter is trying to have one's cake and eat it too.

this is why so many people on this post have said that they do not think wei wuxian had the right to be in lotus pier's ancestral hall at all. this is why barely any of us have even gotten into wei wuxian and lan wangji's behavior in the ancestral hall itself: because the mere entry of wei wuxian and lan wangji into a private area of jiang cheng's home, without jiang cheng's permission, is already a wrongdoing in our eyes.

but, for the sake of argument, let's get into wei wuxian and lan wangji's behavior in the ancestral hall confrontation itself.

as a starting point, let's establish that the lotus pier ancestral hall is a private area. when jiang cheng confronts wei wuxian, wei wuxian says "I didn’t take Hanguang-jun to any other restricted areas of Lotus Pier." the usage of the word "other" here entails that the ancestral hall, where wei wuxian and lan wangji are currently situated, is also a "restricted area of Lotus Pier." were the ancestral hall open to the public, wei wuxian would have not used the word "other," and instead would have merely said "I didn't take Hanguang-jubn to any restricted areas of Lotus Pier."

second, it's a bit reductive to say that wei wuxian "only [stopped trying to leave] when jc starts on lwj," because how rude was jiang cheng actually to lan wangji specifically? in fact, jiang cheng was much ruder to both wei wuxian and wen ning than he was to lan wangji (who he basically only calls "riffraff" once), yet out of the three people named by jiang cheng, wei wuxian only defended lan wangji - not himself, and not wen ning either. this is a strange decision, and is worthy of commentary.

let's take a look at this exchange of dialogue, which happened before anyone started exchanging physical blows. for clarity's sake, i have highlighted everything offensive jiang cheng said about wei wuxian in red, everything offensive jiang cheng said about lan wangji in blue, and everything offensve jiang cheng said about wen ning in green.

Jiang Cheng: You certainly do need to kneel before them—to apologize for showing up in front of them for no reason, sullying their eyes, and violating their peace. Wei Wuxian: I’m just offering some incense, okay? Jiang Cheng: Offering incense? Wei Wuxian, do you have no self-awareness? You were expelled from my family a long time ago. And yet you bring riffraff here to offer incense to my parents? Wei Wuxian: Make yourself clear. Who is this riffraff you’re referring to? Jiang Cheng: You’re so forgetful. What do I mean by riffraff? Well, let me remind you. All of Lotus Pier perished—including my parents—because you played the hero to save that Lan-er-gongzi next to you. But no, that wasn’t enough. You had to go back for a second round. You just had to save those Wen dogs, and you dragged my jiejie and the others into your mess. What a great man you are. Even better, you’re so magnanimous that you brought these two to Lotus Pier—let the Wen dog wander around in front of our gates and escorted Lan-er-gongzi here to offer incense. You’re deliberately trying to upset them and me. Wei Wuxian, who do you think you are? Who gave you the right to bring others into my family’s ancestral hall as you please? Wei Wuxian: Jiang Cheng, listen to what you’re saying. Is it even fit for hearing? Don’t forget your status—you’re a family head, after all. And yet you just insulted a distinguished cultivator of a prominent cultivation clan, right in front of Jiang-shushu and everyone else’s memorial tablets. What happened to your upbringing? Where are your manners?

Seven Seas translation, vol. 4

i think the color highlights make my point clear. however, to recap, let me list again what jiang cheng says about lan wangji during this scene:

lan wangji is an outsider.

lan wangji is riffraff.

lotus pier fell because wei wuxian played the hero and saved lan wangji.

and let me list again what jiang cheng says about wei wuxian during this scene:

wei wuxian sullied the eyes of jiang cheng's ancestors and violated their peace.

wei wuxian has zero self-awareness.

wei wuxian was expelled from jiang cheng's family long ago.

wei wuxian brought lan wangji and wen ning into lotus pier. jiang cheng blames wei wuxian and not the other two parties for their presence in lotus pier.

lotus pier fell because wei wuxian played the hero saved lan wangji.

jiang cheng's sister and many others were killed because wei wuxian continued to play the hero by rescuing the wen remnants.

wei wuxian brought outsiders into lotus pier.

wei wuxian is deliberately trying to upset jiang cheng and his ancestors by bringing outsiders into the lotus pier ancestral hall.

"wei wuxian, who do you think you are?"

clearly, what jiang cheng says about wei wuxian himself is much more extensive and much worse than what jiang cheng says about lan wangji. the only really offensive thing jiang cheng calls lan wangji in this above dialogue is "riffraff;" saying that lotus pier perished because wei wuxian saved lan wangji is much more offensive towards wei wuxian than it is towards lan wangji. meanwhile, jiang cheng calls wei wuxian shameless, says he's sullied the eyes of jiang cheng's ancestors, says he has no self-awareness, claims wei wuxian caused the fall of lotus pier, and blames wei wuxian for the death of jiang yanli and also a whole bunch of other people. clearly, the vast majority of jiang cheng's tirade is directed at wei wuxian himself.

moreover, jiang cheng's language towards wen ning is also more offensive than his language towards lan wangji: while jiang cheng calls lan wangji "riffraff," he still refers lan wangji as "lan-er-gongzi;" however, jiang cheng refers to wen ning by the much more derogatory insult "wen-dog." in my opinion, "wen-dog" is a worse insult than "riffraff."

look, i'm going to be honest here. in the grand scope of things, especially in the scope of all the shit jiang cheng has said, "riffraff" is not that great of an insult. jiang cheng is capable of far nastier language. hell, "wen-dog" is a worse insult.

therefore, it is very strange to me that wei wuxian's response to jiang cheng's tirade only calls this barely-an-insult towards lan wangji - and does not call out his much more severe insult towards wei wuxian himself, nor his offensive language towards wen ning. the vast majority of jiang cheng's tirade is clearly focused on wei wuxian himself, and even wen ning catches worse strays than lan wangji - yet, wei wuxian only defends lan wangji. he doesn't even defend wen ning. why is this?

in my view, wei wuxian is not properly responding to anything jiang cheng is saying, and has instead latched onto lan wangji as an acceptable excuse to rebut jiang cheng's accusations. in reality, wei wuxian is angered by all the shit jiang cheng has said about wei wuxian, because jiang cheng is actively picking a fight here and is thus being kind of an asshole. but wei wuxian also feels incredibly guilty about his perceived role in jin zixuan and jiang yanli's death, so he feels he does not have the right to defend himself from jiang cheng's blame. however, he is still upset by jiang cheng's cruel words towards him - therefore, he latches onto the first excuse that allows him to justifiably rebut jiang cheng's tirade: that jiang cheng was rude to someone uninvolved in his past life's tragedy, lan wangji.

this is evidenced by the fact that wei wuxian does not defend wen ning during this confrontation at all. jiang cheng is ruder about wen ning than he is about lan wangji, since only wen ning gets called a "wen dog," and since jiang cheng's yells about both wen ning and lan wangji being in lotus pier. yet wei wuxian only defends lan wangji, not wen ning. honestly, this isn't a great look for wei wuxian. the fact that wen ning is not present at the moment is no excuse: you should defend your friends if they're being insulted even if the insulting is happening behind their backs. so the fact that wei wuxian also does not defend wen ning indicates to me that his guilty feelings about jin zixuan and jiang yanli's deaths also extends to wen ning, who he caused to kill jin zixuan; therefore, when wei wuxian feels he does not have the right to defend himself from jiang cheng, he also feels he does not have the right to defend wen ning, either. thus, wei wuxian defends only lan wangji and not wen ning, even though wen ning was also insulted, because only lan wangji was uninvolved in jin zixuan and jiang yanli's deaths.

this indicates to me that, no matter what the narration insists, wei wuxian had motives further than just defending lan wangji when he took jiang cheng's bait and began arguing with him. the narration can insist whatever it wants; if MXTX wants me to buy the narration as objective truth rather than wei wuxian's subjective narration, then the narration should accurately align with the dialogue actually being spoken.

third, it is wei wuxian who first escalates a verbal confrontation into a physical one.

after the above exchange, jiang cheng then reveals that he saw wei wuxian and lan wangji's PDA under the tree. using said information, jiang cheng then rather offensively insinuates that wei wuxian and lan wangji are gay for each other. after jiang cheng makes this insinuation, here's what happens next:

Wei Wuxian looked as though he was forcibly holding something back. “Jiang Wanyin, you… Apologize right now.” “Apologize? Why should I? For stumbling on your rendezvous?” Jiang Cheng sneered with biting sarcasm. “Hanguang-jun and I are just friends,” Wei Wuxian fumed. “What kind of relationship do you think we have?! I’m warning you—you better apologize right now! Don’t make me kick your ass!” Lan Wangji’s expression froze at this. Jiang Cheng, on the other hand, scoffed. “Then I’ve never seen a ‘friend’ like that in my life. And you’re warning me? On what grounds? If either of you possessed even the slightest bit of shame, you wouldn’t have come here…” Wei Wuxian saw the change in Lan Wangji’s expression and thought that Jiang Cheng’s words had stung him. He was so angry that his entire body shook. He didn’t even dare imagine what Lan Wangji thought of being insulted like that. His fury blazed brighter, the blood rushed to his head, and he flung out a talisman. “Are you done?!” The talisman was fast and merciless. It struck Jiang Cheng on his right shoulder and exploded with a thunderous bang, causing him to stagger. He hadn’t expected Wei Wuxian to strike so suddenly, and his own spiritual powers had yet to fully recover. As a result, the blast caught him head-on and his shoulder began to bleed.

Seven Seas translation, vol. 4

to summarize: jiang cheng offensively insinuated that wei wuxian and lan wangji were in a romantic relationship. wei wuxian seemed to take this accusation of homosexuality as an inherently offensive insinuation, even separately from jiang cheng's offensive tone, and angrily insisted that he and lan wangji are only friends. at this, lan wangji's expression froze. wei wuxian then assumed that jiang cheng's insinuation of homosexuality had upset lan wangji, and therefore hit jiang cheng with a talisman. when the talisman hit jiang cheng, jiang cheng was caught off-guard because he did not expect wei wuxian to escalate to physical violence and because his spiritual energy had yet to recover. then, after this, the three of them began physically fighting.

so it was wei wuxian, not jiang cheng, who hit first. moreover, wei wuxian hit first for an incorrect reason: wei wuxian assumed that lan wangji got upset because jiang cheng insinuated lan wangji and wei wuxian were gay; however, it's obvious to the reader that lan wangji actually got upset because wei wuxian said they were just friends.

what's also interesting is that jiang cheng, unlike wei wuxian and lan wangji, is actually less willing to engage in physical violence. sure, he hits back with full force once they attack him. but when wei wuxian begins to pass out, the narration states that "Jiang Cheng’s expression changed too. He retracted his whip, then blinked, looking alert" (Seven Seas translation, vol. 4). in other words, he stops fighting, instead of taking the opportunity to attack a less-defended wei wuxian - which implies to me that jiang cheng only physically fights back because wangxian attacked him first, and that he does not want to engage in physical violence.

furthermore, take a look at what happens once the physical confrontation continues:

Seeing they were both about to leave, he barked, “Hold it right there!” Lan Wangji fumed. “Get lost!” With his words came an abruptly raging Bichen. Immediately after, a flash of purple lightning hurtled forth as well. Both divine weapons struck each other, letting loose a long, ear-piercing yowl. The impact of this noise gave Wei Wuxian a splitting headache, and like a flickering candle flame that was finally extinguished, his eyes closed and his head drooped low. Sensing the sudden weight on his shoulder, Lan Wangji promptly extracted himself from the melee to feel for his breathing. With Bichen’s master no longer supplying it with power, Zidian immediately advanced toward them. Jiang Cheng, who didn’t actually want to injure Lan Wangji, instantly pulled back his strike...

Seven Seas translation, vol. 4

jiang cheng responds to wei wuxian and lan wangji trying to leave verbally; lan wangji responds to jiang cheng's words with physical violence. moreover, the narration directly states that jiang cheng did not actually want to injure lan wangji.

so, what is my assessment of all of this? well, first, party A trespassed in a private area of party B's home. second, once party A and party B began to verbally argue about this trespassing, party A escalated the confrontation to physical violence, specifically catching party B off guard. third, throughout this entire physical fight, party B stopped fighting once one member of party A became incapacitated; party B only began fighting again when party A responded to his words with more physical violence, and even then tried to pull his blow the moment it became clear he might actually injure party A.

now, escalating a verbal confrontation into a physical one, by the vast majority of modern rules of engagement, is not a good look. escalating a verbal confrontation with someone into a physical one in the private areas of that person's own home, in which you were trespassing without permission, is an even worse look. thus, all in all, it seems that party A behaved worse than party B in this conflict.

fourth and finally, when wei wuxian begins to pass out, he does so not because he has been hurt by jiang cheng's words, but rather because the realization of what he himself is doing horrifies him. let's see what the text says:

Wei Wuxian haphazardly warded off a few blows, then abruptly came to his senses. This was the ancestral hall of the Jiang Clan of Yunmeng. He had just been kneeling here, praying for the blessings of Jiang Fengmian and Madam Yu. And now he was attacking their son right in front of them, together with Lan Wangji! It was like he’d been doused in icy water. His vision went first dark, then white. Lan Wangji glanced at him before whirling around to grab his shoulder. Jiang Cheng’s expression changed too. He retracted his whip, then blinked, looking alert. “Wei Ying?!” Lan Wangji called out. His low voice buzzed and reverberated incessantly in Wei Wuxian’s head. Wei Wuxian wondered if his ears had been damaged. “What’s wrong?” He felt something creeping down his face and raised his hand to touch it, only to come away with a palm covered in red. The dizziness was accompanied by fresh blood trickling from his mouth and nose, dripping to the ground.

from this, we can clearly see that wei wuxian began to pass out not because of anything jiang cheng said, but rather because he himself was upset by his own actions. jiang cheng did not roll a nat20 on vicious mockery like some fans seem to love insisting. instead, wei wuxian began to pass out because wei wuxian realized he had been attacking with jiang fengmian and yu ziyuan's son right in front of jiang fengmian and yu ziyuan's memorial tablets, and this realization upset him.

from this, it seems like even wei wuxian himself sees him and lan wangji physically attacking jiang cheng in jiang cheng's own ancestral hall to be morally suspect. of course, you are free to disagree with wei wuxian. but this realization of his, not anything jiang cheng said, is why wei wuxian passes out and has to be carried out of lotus pier. just thought i'd make that clear.

finally, regarding what the narration implies: of course the narration sides with wei wuxian. wei wuxian is the protagonist, and the story wants you to side with him. however, just because the story says that someone is in the right does not mean i have to agree. MXTX is a writer of webnovels, not the final authority on moral philosophy.

in fact, when a story tries to convey information to you the reader, it typically tries to convey two things:

the concrete events that happened (ie. "wei wuxian and lan wangji got into an altercation with jiang cheng in the lotus pier ancestral hall")

the author's moral judgment of said events (ie. "wei wuxian was in the right, and jiang cheng was in the wrong")

while i as the reader will accept #1 as fact, it is my right as the reader to disagree with the author on #2. to put it in simpler terms, i am free to have my own analysis of the text, even if said analysis disagrees with the author's intended interpretation. such is the right all readers bear. this is the right all jiang cheng antis exercise when they ignore MXTX's author comments on how jiang cheng "is not a heinous person" and instead insist that jiang cheng is a morally iredeemable villain.

to come to your own conclusions on the morality of a series of events described in a work of fiction is one of the basics of reading. to instead insist that "well [xyz blorbo] must be in the right, just because the author said so!!!!" reflects a complete lack of critical thinking.

[poorlittleyaoyao]

Also—assuming the chronology in this part of the drama follows this part of the novel—Jiang Cheng just got done giving a platform to Bicao and Sisi. He just found out that the his beloved nephew’s other close parental figure committed incest (accidental) and exceptionally lurid fratricide that also resulted in the deaths of several women (very much on purpose). The text neither confirms nor denies that Jin Guangyao killed his son, but that seed has been planted in Jiang Cheng’s mind. It’s not reaching to assume that Jiang Cheng is feeling betrayed and extra protective of Jin Ling. To see Wei Wuxian entering a restricted family space like that is already bad enough, as the previous posts have said, but given how stressed out Jiang Cheng already is when it happens? That’s hitting so many berserk buttons! He should’ve thrown hands sooner quite frankly.

[symphonyofsilence]

WWX stans saying he would have been the best uncle and Jin Ling's favorite uncle like we didn't see the man see Jin Ling go through the most horrifying event in his life and witness his uncle (who was also one of his two guardians) painful, traumatizing death after the said uncle was dismembered and after some really earth-shattering truths being unraveled, and LEAVE THE BOY THERE CRYING WHILE STARING AT HIS UNCLE'S COFFIN to go fuck in the bushes with LWJ. Like not an hour after the incident, or even a quarter of an hour. no. right after that whole shitshow happened!

(And JL accusingly asked JC why he let them go! JL...my boy... the real question is why did THEY choose to go?! When WWX had a traumatized nephew & a literally and figuratively bleeding brother to take care of, and LWJ had a traumatized brother who seconds ago WAS WILLING TO DIE WITH JGY and LWJ hadn't yet made sure that LXC's willingness has ceased since!)

And then WWX didn't even go to check on JL after that! While JL was a 15 y/o sect leader dealing with the power vacuum left after the scandals of the previous sect leader who was also coincidentally the Xiandu, & going through a power struggle with one of the worst sects out there.

WWX asks after Jin Ling from the Lan Juniors instead of going to see him himself! When he next sees JL it's said that the news of his struggles had reached Wangxian in Gusu, meaning that WWX hadn't dropped by to check on JL to hear of these from JL himself and he hadn't dropped by to check in on him even after hearing these news! He was only there bc JL had invited the Lan Juniors for a field trip!

WWX shows his love with drastic, big, dramatic, sacrificial acts like giving his golden core to JC or transferring Jin Ling's curse to himself, but since he himself loves to run away from his traumas and his responsibilities, he's not someone who can be counted on to help his loved-ones with their traumas and responsibilities. He didn't do it with Jiang Cheng and he didn't do it with Jin Ling. He never even talked to Wen Ning about Wen Qing and the Wen Remnants. (Or how WN feels about being a zombie forcefully brought back to life in a world that hates and fears him)

Maybe diplomacy is not his strength and he'll only make things worse by trying to help JL with his sect leader duties, but it wouldn't have taken anything from him if he had only stayed by JL at least for the night after the Guanyin Temple, not even doing anything, but just being there. (And I understand that narratively it might have been a point in the story where some readers might want to see the main couple sail off into the sunset together, but all it would have taken for the main couple to be shown as less of a dick was adding a phrase like "the next morning..." or even "later that day" or something like that before writing about them disappearing into the sunset...or the bushes.)

I love Wei Wuxian, but post-resurrection Wei Wuxian was really...not particularly an ideal family member.

[whumpbby]

That kinda lends credence to the idea that post-ressurection WWX is still running on the war trauma and hasn't even started to process shit. He's still 17 in his head and that's how he acts around people who went through things and grew over them.

With LWJ he acts like he's crushing for the first time in his life and everything else takes a backseat. I messed up so I'm running away with my boyfriend so the parents (JC, JL...everyone around me) can't scold me. And LWJ allows him, cause he never had any worthwhile responsibilities on his shoulders, so he can just walk away from everything and abscond with his midlife-crisis hot teenage wife;)

WWX isn't even a good uncle material, seriously, he's the weird cousin that runs around the country and brings trouble and only advice he has is how to hide weed from your parents xD

[wincestuous-psychos]

AO3 out here slapping the anti's. You not shipping siblings doesn't give you the right to wish death upon us. AO3 was always and always will be a pro-ship site. Don't like, don't read.

[beggars-opera]

Your honour, I admit that I do have a superiority complex over not watching Disney "live action" remakes, but in my defense, I am right

[ace-shenanigans]

Sometimes friendship is a boss and his two henchmen

[piosplayhouse]

"cats require you to respect their boundaries and consent while dogs don't" is still the most nonsensical take that falls apart immediately if you've ever met a chihuahua