lav

I'm treading the backward path. Mostly, I just waste my time.

[lavnetic]

sleep deprived lunatic rants about byler

Sometimes I get doubt bc of my general paranoia but then the fact that almost their entire relationship, up until now, has revolved around unresolved tension and unfinished emotional business that has to be explored and addressed in order to properly close both their arcs.. calms me down a little. Like this final season has to find a way to tie all those loose ends surrounding their relationship. And it all seems to lead up to these complicated feelings that they have been bottling up inside them both since dare I say the very first season. And boy are those feelings far from platonic.

The show has made it clear from the very beginning that what these two had was a special friendship, with numerous scenes that both directly & indirectly showcased that. The whole “crazy together” convo scene, or the one where Will opens up to Johnathan about how everyone around him babies him, excluding Mike from the list of names. Or how Mike seems to be the only one who noticed Will being quiet that day at school. And a veeery long etc.

We were meant to be “weirded out” by the way their relationship seemed to shift negatively in season 3. We were meant to notice and question the way caring Mike had turned into a “terrible” friend towards Will after... what exactly? What had changed between them to cause this sudden distance — and why was it never acknowledged out loud? Those questions have only been answered with a sea of pure assumptions. We still haven’t got a clue what made Mike so avoidant towards his once bestest friend who seemed to have just turned into a side argument of his at that point.

The rain fight, the awkward airport hug, the rinkomania fight – these have NOT been fully addressed or disclosed. And omg the biggest of all imo the freaking painting lie. All of these events that have led them to where they are in their relationship, exhaustingly unresolved. And in this upcoming season we will have them working out those suppressed feelings together as a team, as friends, as best friends, or well you know as whatever this “special” thing they’ve got going on.

I’m certain we will get a look inside Mike’s thoughts, I mean we have to. And what other explanation is there in regards to how he’s been pushing his best friend of all time away the way he is? He's HIDING smth. We know what Will’s been hiding, but he isn’t the one evidently pushing Mike away, or making things awkward between them exactly, is he?

And what’s beautiful about their relationship is that, even though things had gotten awkward between them in the last couple of seasons and even though they had been separated for some time, the show still makes it clear how these two still keep that special bond strong and have a hard time without the other. Something I noticed, and cling to cuz it’s adorable, is the fact that, after moving, El mentioned how Will had been acting “weird”. And then we have Mike describing his life without Will at Hawkins as “weird”. Not having each other around is weird.

All in all, these two need to sit tf down and talk, let it all out, stop hiding behind the curtain. Whatever’s coming out is originating from yeaaars of bottled up emotions, and the closet. It’s all been building up for this very moment, and I can’t be more excited to see these two confessing everything. Shed some light on all the confusion regarding their relationship. And kiss too while they’re at it.

[lavnetic]

sleep deprived lunatic rants about byler

Sometimes I get doubt bc of my general paranoia but then the fact that almost their entire relationship, up until now, has revolved around unresolved tension and unfinished emotional business that has to be explored and addressed in order to properly close both their arcs.. calms me down a little. Like this final season has to find a way to tie all those loose ends surrounding their relationship. And it all seems to lead up to these complicated feelings that they have been bottling up inside them both since dare I say the very first season. And boy are those feelings far from platonic.

The show has made it clear from the very beginning that what these two had was a special friendship, with numerous scenes that both directly & indirectly showcased that. The whole “crazy together” convo scene, or the one where Will opens up to Johnathan about how everyone around him babies him, excluding Mike from the list of names. Or how Mike seems to be the only one who noticed Will being quiet that day at school. And a veeery long etc.

We were meant to be “weirded out” by the way their relationship seemed to shift negatively in season 3. We were meant to notice and question the way caring Mike had turned into a “terrible” friend towards Will after... what exactly? What had changed between them to cause this sudden distance — and why was it never acknowledged out loud? Those questions have only been answered with a sea of pure assumptions. We still haven’t got a clue what made Mike so avoidant towards his once bestest friend who seemed to have just turned into a side argument of his at that point.

The rain fight, the awkward airport hug, the rinkomania fight – these have NOT been fully addressed or disclosed. And omg the biggest of all imo the freaking painting lie. All of these events that have led them to where they are in their relationship, exhaustingly unresolved. And in this upcoming season we will have them working out those suppressed feelings together as a team, as friends, as best friends, or well you know as whatever this “special” thing they’ve got going on.

I’m certain we will get a look inside Mike’s thoughts, I mean we have to. And what other explanation is there in regards to how he’s been pushing his best friend of all time away the way he is? He's HIDING smth. We know what Will’s been hiding, but he isn’t the one evidently pushing Mike away, or making things awkward between them exactly, is he?

And what’s beautiful about their relationship is that, even though things had gotten awkward between them in the last couple of seasons and even though they had been separated for some time, the show still makes it clear how these two still keep that special bond strong and have a hard time without the other. Something I noticed, and cling to cuz it’s adorable, is the fact that, after moving, El mentioned how Will had been acting “weird”. And then we have Mike describing his life without Will at Hawkins as “weird”. Not having each other around is weird.

All in all, these two need to sit tf down and talk, let it all out, stop hiding behind the curtain. Whatever’s coming out is originating from yeaaars of bottled up emotions, and the closet. It’s all been building up for this very moment, and I can’t be more excited to see these two confessing everything. Shed some light on all the confusion regarding their relationship. And kiss too while they’re at it.

[lavnetic]

so none of this was addressed at all ok

[august-shops]

I’m sorry but anybody who thinks Mike was not into it and flirting back does not know how neurodivergent and awkward people flirt like trust me, real recognize real🙏

[thranduel]

they deliberately wrote it so el couldn’t gain strength to defeat vecna until mike had to be forced and pressured into a monologue and say “i love you” (which by the way, only happened because of WILL’S MONOLOGUE TO MIKE), but will just simply had to think about his unconditional love for mike and happy memories with him, even while believing it could be unrequited, and STILL gained strength to fully love and accept himself, unlock his powers and save mike’s life (and other people’s lives too) right in front of his eyes.

and also, to take mike’s feelings into consideration:

when mike didn’t tell el he loved her, she walked away from him.

when will believed mike may not love him back, he walked towards him, prioritised his happiness over his own, sacrificed his own feelings for him in the van because he just wanted him to be happy, literally unlocked his powers just by thinking about how much he loves him and protected him with everything he had.

will didn’t need the validation from mike to accept himself and gain strength to fight with his powers and i think that’s so powerful and important. it’s exactly what robin said. however, that doesn’t mean it’s a tammy thompson situation at all, because will’s love for mike isn’t just a crush. he’s IN LOVE with him and always has been and we haven’t even seen mike’s perspective yet (he also still doesn’t know about the painting).

also robin never said that will has to move on in order to accept himself. she was saying that FIRST he must love and accept himself to eventually get what he wants, and that it’s possible to do that even if you think your love is unrequited. we literally see this self-acceptance arc completed at the end of ep 4, with mike staring at him in complete awe. that’s just the first step in will’s journey to finding even more happiness and being with the love of his life. the most important thing was to love himself first. he’s done that now. and the reason he was able to love and accept himself was BECAUSE of mike and his own love for him, which clearly isn’t going anywhere. there was no “moving on” with that flashback film, it was SHOWING US who gives him the most strength. in robin’s film, she was all alone. in will’s film, mike was the first one who he thought about, and most of the memories were with mike.

i find it so beautiful and powerful that will didn’t need mike to do anything else for him except just… simply exist. that’s what gave him strength. there was no forced cheesy monologue that anybody was pushed into saying due to extreme pressure, but just thinking of happy memories and his love for him alone. because his love for mike is stronger than anything else on earth. it’s the most special and unconditional love i’ve ever seen, and it simultaneously allowed will to fully accept and love himself.

there’s nothing more beautiful than this.

and what’s also extremely beautiful is that will has actually already started to help mike learn to love and accept himself too. for ages, mike was drowning in insecurities in his current relationship and received no emotional support or confidence. will is the ONLY person to make him feel loved and give him strength, by giving him the painting and confessing his feelings during the van scene. even though he used el’s name, it doesn’t change the fact that they were HIS feelings. isn’t it crazy how they’re not dating (yet), but mike is the person that gives will the most strength and will is the person that gives mike the most strength? they’re literally screaming in our faces who truly belongs together.

[lavnetic]

Robin's Tammy speech to Will

the fact that some people really think that will's feelings for mike are exactly like robin's puppy crush on tammy thompson is insane... just goes to show they completey misunderstood mike&will's relationship which is why they can't see any of the signs. or choose not to.

that speech was meant for us to discern that difference in between their experiences, not compare as if it's a direct parallel. there're very distinctive characteristics regarding both situations.

we have robin admiring tammy from afar, she believed for sure that tammy was the love of her life having never really interacted with her in any way before. they didn't have a deep bond or connection that made both ends romantically tied to each other. which is what robin explains to will, the fear she felt for her true self and her feelings were what stopped her from creating that bond and making her move. and then tammy fell for steve... in her film she saw herself, empowered by her identity on her own and moved on from that silly crush, seeing through it and allowing herself to be who she truly is.

then we have will, having a deep history with mike. growing up together with shared experiences since childhood, shared interests, shared trauma. a very special bond - which the show has always made it evidently clear since literally the very first episode from the first season. tender moments and ups and downs faced, and it only made will's feelings stronger. and then mike fell for el... even then, will fought for mike's happiness and vouched for their relationship. hell, even FIXING it from total perish. in the montage of memories - or well his own "film" - mike was a part of it. the love he feels for him, as he's said, gives him the courage to fight on.

so, robin's speech about tammy wasn't meant for us to think: will's feelings for mike = robin's crush on tammy. not only is it mainly about self-acceptance and being confident in your true self, of course, but it's also meant for us to pinpoint the major differences between the two scenarios.

that's how i see it at least ! lmk what yall think

[lune-moon-nuit]

The Boy Who Swore He’d Never Fall in Love

While reflecting on the essays and analyses (here - here - and here) I had written about the first five minutes and their impact on Will, I came to a realization :

The brief exchange in season 3 — Joyce teasingly wiping Nancy’s lipstick off Jonathan’s cheek, Will murmuring “gross” once Jonathan leaves, and Joyce replying, “You won’t think it’s gross when you fall in love,” to which Will quietly responds, “I’m not gonna fall in love” — seems, on the surface, like a tender family moment filled with humor and innocence. But when viewed through the lens of Will’s history and trauma, this seemingly trivial conversation becomes profoundly revealing.

When Will says “gross,” it is not a child’s naive aversion to romance — it’s the voice of someone who has internalized fear and disgust toward intimacy itself. The lipstick mark, a symbol of affection and desire, is a visual cue of physical closeness, of love expressed through the body. For Will, who has been physically violated and stripped of control over his own body, such imagery doesn’t signify warmth or connection — it unconsciously evokes discomfort, even revulsion. The association between touch and danger has been wired deep into his psyche.

Joyce’s response, meant to be lighthearted, unintentionally strikes the very nerve that defines Will’s internal conflict. Her assumption that he will one day “fall in love” like everyone else confronts him with a future he cannot imagine without fear. His quiet but decisive answer, “I’m not gonna fall in love,” carries the weight of trauma disguised as teenage detachment. It isn’t rebellion or denial; it’s self-protection. For Will, to love means to open himself to vulnerability — and vulnerability once led to horror.

What makes this exchange even more heartbreaking is how normal it appears to everyone else. Joyce interprets her son’s reaction as childish shyness, unaware that beneath his calm surface lies a lifetime of association between love, danger, and violation. The audience, too, might miss the moment’s gravity until later seasons recontextualize Will’s arc. In light of what we now understand — Vecna’s abuse, the invasion of Will’s body and mind, and the lingering imprint of the Mind Flayer — his aversion to intimacy reads as the residue of trauma.

The word “gross” thus becomes a psychological defense mechanism — a small but powerful attempt to distance himself from something that terrifies him. And his statement “I’m not gonna fall in love” is both tragic and deeply human: the echo of someone who believes love and suffering are indistinguishable. It’s as though Will has learned that to be desired is to be consumed, that affection inevitably turns into control.

In that brief, domestic moment — over breakfast, in laughter and teasing — the entire tragedy of Will Byers quietly unfolds. His trauma is not visible, but it breathes beneath his words. The intimacy others celebrate, he dreads. The affection others long for, he fears. And in saying “I’m not gonna fall in love,” Will isn’t rejecting love itself — he’s mourning the part of himself that still can’t believe he deserves it.

What makes Will’s quiet declaration — “I’m not gonna fall in love” — even more tragic is the deep, unspoken irony that he is already in love. Without fully realizing it, Will has already begun to develop feelings for Mike, the one person who makes him feel safe, seen, and valued. Yet his instinctive response is denial — not because his heart is incapable of love, but because his mind has learned to fear it. This is what renders the scene so heartbreakingly layered: even as Will insists he will never fall in love, he is already living the contradiction of being in love and terrified by it.

At that point in the series, Will cannot yet name what he feels. His affection for Mike exists in a liminal space between friendship and yearning, hidden beneath gestures of loyalty, admiration, and longing. But the emotional truth is already there — and so is the fear. The same fear that drives him to dismiss love as “gross.” His heart recognizes intimacy, yet his trauma recoils from it. The result is a painful cognitive dissonance: love, the very thing that might heal him, is also what triggers his deepest anxieties.

What Joyce interprets as innocent embarrassment is, in truth, a subconscious collision of two forces that define Will’s life: queerness and trauma. On one hand, his love for Mike is something pure and transformative — an expression of who he truly is. On the other, his experience with Vecna has warped the meaning of intimacy into something violent, invasive, and shameful. For Will, love is never just love; it’s entangled with violation, guilt, and fear. His queerness, something inherently beautiful, is made heavier by the echoes of what was done to him.

That’s the cruel paradox of Will’s psychology: the same vulnerability that allows him to love is the one that made him a target of violence. His body and mind were invaded under the pretense of connection — Vecna whispering tenderly, “We’re going to do beautiful things together, William,” as he stripped Will of his autonomy. In that moment, the language of care became the language of domination. Vecna’s perverse tenderness taught Will, on a visceral level, that affection could mask harm. So when Joyce speaks of love with warmth, and Jonathan’s romance is painted in playful innocence, Will’s reaction — the faint disgust, the quiet rejection — becomes an act of survival.

Psychologically, Will’s trauma has fused intimacy with danger. His brain has learned that closeness leads to pain, that surrender leads to loss of control. And because of this, his feelings for Mike — though genuine and profoundly emotional — are tangled in terror. He adores Mike, yet part of him fears that desire itself is corrupt, that wanting someone is the first step toward hurting them or being hurt again. When he tells Joyce “I’m not gonna fall in love,” he’s not making a promise — he’s building a wall. A wall to protect himself from both his trauma and the terrifying beauty of his own truth.

From a narrative perspective, the irony is devastating. The audience knows that Will’s life will soon become a war between love and fear, between the purity of his heart and the corruption left inside him by Vecna. But in that small domestic scene, before any of that is spoken aloud, the seed of that conflict is already planted. His denial foreshadows everything to come — the quiet heartbreak of loving Mike from afar, the loneliness of carrying affection that feels forbidden twice over: once by society, and once by trauma.

Will’s love for Mike represents everything that Vecna sought to destroy: connection, trust, tenderness. Yet that love is also haunted by Vecna’s shadow. It is both rebellion and residue — the light that survived the darkness, and the darkness that still clings to it. When Will looks at Mike, he feels both safety and fear, attraction and shame. His longing to express love is constantly undermined by the voice in his head — not just the internalized homophobia of his environment, but the lingering echo of Vecna’s manipulation: “We’re going to do beautiful things together, William.”

Thus, the simple moment at the breakfast table becomes a microcosm of Will’s entire character arc. It is the quiet intersection of all the forces shaping him — queerness, trauma, love, shame, and the desperate search for belonging. His words, “I’m not gonna fall in love,” are not simply denial. They are prophecy. They mark the beginning of a long struggle to disentangle love from pain, desire from danger, and selfhood from violation.

And that is what makes Will Byers one of the most tragically human characters in modern television. His story isn’t just about surviving a monster — it’s about surviving what the monster represented: the theft of innocence, the corruption of affection, and the lifelong journey of learning that to love, and to be loved, can still be beautiful after all.

The tragedy of that “I’m not gonna fall in love” moment deepens profoundly when we reach the storm scene in Season 3 — the confrontation between Mike and Will under the rain. What initially seems like a childish argument about growing apart transforms, when read in full context, into one of the most emotionally devastating sequences in the entire series. Mike’s words — “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls” — are not only cruel (and projection he does on Will about his own identity crisis struggle), they reopen an unhealed wound that has followed Will since his earliest years: the shame and rejection attached to his difference. These words echo, almost word for word, the kind of homophobic taunts he’s likely endured from his father and peers — moments where his very identity was mocked, denied, and invalidated.

And yet, beneath the surface of that pain, this scene also marks the first moment of realization for Will. When Mike asks, “What did you think, really? That we’d never get girlfriends, that we’d just sit in my basement all day playing games for the rest of our lives?” — Will’s trembling response, “Yeah... I guess I did. I really did.” — is an admission loaded with more than nostalgia. It’s a confession that slips out almost involuntarily, a moment of heartbreaking honesty where Will unconsciously acknowledges his own feelings for Mike. What hurts the most is not merely that he’s realizing he’s gay, but that the first person he ever loved — the boy who made him feel safe, seen, and whole — is also the one shattering that illusion of safety with words that mirror the cruelty of the world outside.

When Will later looks at the photos of the Party inside Castle Byers and whispers “so stupid” through tears, it becomes devastatingly clear that he isn’t only mourning his lost childhood. He’s mourning the purity of a love that could never be reciprocated (from his point of view) and which is condemned by society, the safety of a bond that no longer exists (for now), and the illusion that he could stay untouched by the world’s harsh realities. Destroying Castle Byers with a baseball bat becomes far more than an act of rage — it’s a symbolic reenactment of his trauma.

The last time his sanctuary was destroyed, it was by the Demogorgon, leading him straight into Vecna’s grasp. This time, he’s the one destroying it — as if possessed by the echoes of that same darkness, as if Vecna’s psychological imprint has turned inward. The Upside Down, after all, has always been a reflection of Will’s inner world: a manifestation of fear, repression, and isolation. The destruction of his safe place thus represents the collapse of his inner defenses — the fusion of his trauma, his sexuality, and his heartbreak into one unbearable emotional rupture.

In that moment, Will becomes the embodiment of cognitive and emotional dissonance. He is caught between the innocence of who he was, the reality of who he is, and the horror of what was done to him. His love for Mike, his unresolved trauma with Vecna, and his lifelong struggle with difference all converge. The rainstorm outside mirrors the chaos within him — his tears blending with the water, his body shaking under the weight of revelation.

It is one of the rare moments in Stranger Things where the supernatural and the deeply human collapse into one another. The castle, once a symbol of safety and imagination, becomes the stage for Will’s silent implosion — a cathartic act through which he unconsciously revisits his own victimization. The boy who built castles to escape monsters is now face-to-face with the truth that the monsters never truly left; they simply took new forms — shame, "unrequited" love, and memory.

And the most devastating part of it all is that Will, despite his fears and the avoidance born from his trauma, is aching to experience love like everyone else. He’s yearning to know what it feels like to share those moments of happiness and intimacy — he needs it as much as he longs for it. Imagine how profoundly destructive it must be when the very thing you crave the most is also the one that terrifies you the most.

What’s truly heartbreaking, once you realize it, is how deeply Will loves Mike — his love for him is so pure, so profound, and so overwhelming. Will is overflowing with love, yet he doesn’t know what to do with it, and that terrifies him.

And to really drive the point home, the phallic imagery that crosses his face…

[lavnetic]

thinking thinking thinking about Robin seeing how worried Mike is about Will and her going "you really love that boy, don't you?"

[bylstarzz]

make sure you claim before season 5 🥹🙏

[ontheswingset]

just to put it out there because i’ve never seen anyone blatantly point it out, but if we simply translate implicit to explicit, what mike was saying was literally “i can’t write you letters because i do that for my girlfriend! we’re not boyfriends! we’re not boyfriends!” and um yeah think i’ll just leave this here. like i’m not even the slightest bit exaggerating

[gayofthefae]

As inspired by my thoughts on this post, the reason El not being with Mike is better for her character is because it deepens her character.

She did not know who she was in season 1. She only really wanted one thing at that point besides safety: Mike.

In concept, it seems 'happier' for whatever given character to 'get the guy'. But it would imply a certain level of tunnel vision for her.

That after all this exploration, looking into her family history, making friends - specifically more relationships with women, forgiving herself...her goals were the same. There's a subtle message in that that it....didn't do anything.

If she wanted one thing when she didn't know herself and that's still what she wants - or at the very least, all she's pursuing - by the end, one could be prompted to ask: does she still not know herself? Not because Mike doesn't make sense with a self-actualized version of her, but because he has been narratively associated with that version of her that does not know herself yet.

Her arc is to knowing herself.

That arc is disappointing and inconsequential if there is any implication that she was simply "right the first time". An implication that if what she needs to be happy is primarily Mike...that that other stuff wasn't that important. Only peripherally, that is.

Her screen time does not make sense if she ends up with Mike. Not just because of lack of build up or something but because what her time was spent on needs to be about something. Because she got with him so early and spend all the time in the middle learning about herself, being with him in the end is not her ending up with him, it's her returning to him. Even though they were always together, because of her focus shifting throughout the seasons, it will still feel like that.

"She explored the world to find the thing she needed was right in front of her" is a sweet trope.

But not for her. Not for a character who needed to explore the world. Her exploring the world was not for to have comparison, there was no plot about her not being grateful enough for what she had to start, she did not leave him only to find the perspective through that exploration that she was wrong to.

That is not what happened.

She didn't need to see the world because she needed perspective on situations she was currently in, she needed to see the world because she didn't see the sun until she was fucking 12 years old.

It's a very different plotline.

By screenwriting principles, things need to happen for a reason. And if she ends up with Mike, let alone if there is any focus on it at all - which there has to be to justify doing it to Will, because it deeply affecting him and being just casual or anything short of epic true love to them is just cruel.

But either way, if she ends up with Mike, she will be ending up where she started. That is something a story cannot do. Seasons 2-4 of her exploring herself need to have an impact on her decisions.

There is no plotline that fits screenwriting rules that goes "I made a decision that I felt good about, then went and learned about the world, and confirmed that what I wanted was that first thing". Because even with the version of that trope I described, it requires learning something. A change of perspective.

But in season 1, El stands by the choice of being with Mike and she did not leave him. Her initial branching out into the world with Hopper and her mother and sister was not a result of a choice to go away from Mike based on any belief about their relationship that she had to change her mind about.

El ending up with Mike would make her entire show plot:

"I thought I was right about Mike making me happy and I was"

The entire middle section could be cut. They could have just lived happily ever after because the only choices caused by her exploration that she has ever made in that relationship were to leave it.

She made a new relationship with another girl who helped her understand what she liked - fashion, hair, ice cream flavors, and treatment/behavior: boundaries.

And she used that newfound knowledge to leave him.

When she got with him she didn't know anything about herself yet.

When she reunited with him, she still had had minimal comparison.

When she went back to him, she had not learned anything new from her environment since breaking up with him that led to that decision.

El ending up with Mike would invalidate the need for all of amazing abuse and feminist representation in her arc. It would heavily imply that it was essentially useless to her main goal and therefor inconsequential. That is horrible for the character that has been written and her needs: to say her female friendships, positive father figure, developed practice of her boundaries and self-advocacy, forgiveness of herself

...All did not matter because she was able to be with Mike happily before any of them were true.

She was able to be with Mike happily before any of them were true. To validate at all the message they want that women's autonomy is important, and is especially empowering in women abused, they need to represent that all the things she learned about that changes that truth with Mike.

To say "abused women can find independence and empowerment through self-advocacy and a gradual transition from dependence on healthy figures to independence", they have to also say "what was true about her before she did all those things is no longer true".

And what was true before all those things is she was perfectly content being with Mike. That was her plot, a focus. It isn't just a side detail that doesn't need to be altered by the autonomy plot.

To keep El with Mike would be to keep her in the state she was in before she was empowered, and to say she is happy in that same state is to say that her empowerment does matter towards her happiness.

El's character becomes infinitely more deep in writing and better treated in-world if she does not end up with Mike.

Because not ending up with your original tunnel vision goal that you had before you knew yourself is not to say "I can't have the things I want".

It is to say "my life is so rich and full know, I have such depth of knowledge of myself now, that I know there is so much more to my life than what was once my whole world".

Just like the opposite plot example I gave, it's all about perspective changing. Except in this case, it's not about her going "I thought the world was better, but you're my world".

It's about her going "I thought you were my whole world, but there's so much more for me out there to explore".

El's whole traumatic backstory is captivity. And containing her to one desire from beginning to end is a form of narrative captivity for her.

When her options are Mike or the world, as they have been written to be, it is no more appropriate to choose Mike for her than it is for her to continue to be unallowed to go outside even into her happy ending.

And really, this is all about something in screenwriting called the "delusional belief". You think you want one thing at the beginning, only to find out it was something else that would fulfill you in the way you thought the first thing would all along.

It doesn't just break screenwriting structure to say "before she knew herself, she thought she wanted him and she was right (so I guess she didn't really even need to get to know herself)", it also flattens her character. Not just in-world, this also has writing consequences.

Audiences cannot attach to her the same, so she does not have the same impact, that is what I mean when I see it would be a disservice to her character. That in that way, it would be a disservice to us. Robbed of the ability to relate to her because she is dulled down to so bland that none of her growth even matters.

Wanting something and being right about and never not knowing that for more than a couple episodes is not a relatable arc. It isn't even an arc, actually.

That's a good point.

For El, MIKE AND EL'S RELATIONSHIP DOES. NOT. HAVE AN ARC.

There are season plots. That is not the same. And a conflict then resolution is not the same as a character arc if the conflict and resolution are simply regression and recovery, or they do nothing to grow the individual characters.

When Mike learned to trust El, that had no impact on her character. She was already advocating for her boundaries and whether he succeeded to fulfill them or not would not change that.

I have also said before that El begins seriously considering getting back together with him after overhearing the "I love you", making her decision a regression based on her idealization of fictional romance (as we see when she's watching tv in season 2) and deprioritizing those boundaries slightly to pursue it, letting things slide that she wasn't as much before.

There is a change, per the season plot - not character arc - but her motivation is not new knowledge, it is regression into her season 1 and 2 fantasies. She wanted true love like in the movies and when that became available to her, she deprioritized the lessons she had been learning, even if just slightly, in favor of the idea of someone loving her like that.

The same is true for season 4, when Mike told El he loved her, that had no impact on her character. Her arc was about loving herself via forgiving herself. To have achieved that in the first place, it needs to be true regardless of whether he loves her. So it's nice that he does, but it isn't impactful to her character arc.

Her character arc is about the importance of going out into the world and meeting lots of new people who teach her lots of new things that all contribute to her knowing herself better and loving herself as best she can with self-assuredness and good boundaries.

To claim that her arc is about Mike is about as deep a disservice as you can do to her character.

To look at an independent woman recovering from abuse as she establishes boundaries and say "a man's love was the answer". I saw a wonderful comparison between her and Ophelia a long time ago, with the visual parallel with El lying in the water in 4x09. What she was hurt by was men and their desire to even "save her" in the first place. So the only thing that could save her is herself.

Even when successful or kinder and safer, it is still all the same. "I only ever wanted to protect you" - Brenner, "What if she doesn't need me anymore" - Mike, "I protect and I feed and I teach" - Hopper.

All the men in her life are attempting to save her. And much of that support is helpful - but it's just that: support; assistance. Not the solution. They are not her "savior".

And that is the disserving claim that credited Mike with her happiness and happy ending would make. That a man saved her from sadness without her having develop any of that autonomy or self love, that part was just for kicks.

Her arc is about going out into the world and meeting lots of new people and learning from them how to love herself and have good boundaries and be independent and empowered.

That is why Mike is good and focal for it in season 1. He is the first of many people who will help her with this along the way.

Mike: You're not the monster.

Hopper: I know [you can fight]. But right now, I need you safe.

Max: Not Hopper. Not Mike. You.

Even Henry: Papa doesn't always tell the truth. - That was huge for her. To validate her intuition and take credibility away from those who sourced her self-blame.

They are each pieces in her story. Her story is not anyone else's and if it were "her and Mike's story", it would be. That works for some characters, but not her. She needs to be able to have things that are her own. Most of all her life. Her story. That can exist outside of any given person who enters it.

Her arc is about lots of people she meets by going out into the world helping her learn to love herself and set boundaries.

It cannot be about one person she meets teaching her that true love is the answer and all her other plotlines are accessory.

It doesn't matter what happens in between. If her 4x08 epilogue is happy and in love with Mike, that will be the claim.

What does her life look like once it's normal: that's what tells us what was truly valuable about what came in the past 5 seasons.

And to say Mike would be to say "nothing". Because that is not what she has spent all her time and heart on. He has been present and appreciated, but he has been accessory.

El cannot end up with Mike because it would make her a two-dimensional character with a singular goal that she achieves and...that's it.

Not ending up with Mike would make her an incredibly deep character with rich, evenly spread relationships - none (like Mike) prioritized over the others - because this is about the different aspects they all individually add to her life equally and in not getting the thing she wanted when she had a one track mind, it allows her to expand the bounds of that view from much further than one track.

Even as a nuanced and deep whole person who had one goal and one thing in season 1, Mike, if she had lots of different cool nuanced things but was still with Mike, I can only think the tunnel vision is still there.

That she has one thing so she sees one thing. But then in the end, she has dozens and still only sees one. That's bad. She needs to know as much about herself as possible with maximum points of comparison to explore and appreciate, and learning from all outlets provided to her.

If she ends up with Mike, she will still have everything she gained over the seasons. But she will not be receiving any of it.

Because if her focus is in the finale what it was in season 1, that implies it was the same all the way through. Her ending being about Mike makes the claim that her plot was about Mike.

Which is so sad. Now it is this tragedy about a girl so focused on one boy that even as the world was giving her so much more she never knew she wanted, as a result of that she never knew she wanted it, she never even looked up to see it and be influenced by it.

That the story is no longer about how Mike taught she's can be a hero not a monster, Hopper taught her her life is more important than the use she is of to others, Max taught her that her opinions matter, and her memories of Henry taught her to forgive herself...

But it is now about how Mike taught her that she can be a hero not a monster, her reunion with Mike taught her how wanted she is in Hawkins, Mike taught her that she's worthy of love, then Mike taught her her mistreatment wasn't her fault.

It is all credited to Mike. If her ending is Mike, that claims her story was Mike. And if Mike is credited with everything she did for herself, she is robbed of her autonomy as a character, a woman, and an abuse survivor, she is robbed of her autonomy because it is to claim that SHE NEVER SOLVED A SINGLE ONE OF HER OWN PROBLEMS.

That she is therefore still dependent. Because if everything is saved only by the power of love, then it is also true that she cannot do it on her own.

If she stays with Mike I can't relate to her. Not because she's happy in her straight relationship. But because it would rob her of any growth and value she had on her own to her other plotlines, making her a one-note character whose only job was to receive love.

An object. El ending up with Mike would make her an object of his affections, someone whose every internal conflict was saved by his love. And object of affection....is still an object.

By making Mike El's happy ending they claim that Mike was her story. And by claiming Mike was her story, they turn from a person to an object. Nothing more than someone he saved.

People act like these love triangle endings are interchangeable. They're not. It's a testament to how well written it is that they are absolutely immovable.

It isn't "El is as she is either dating or not dating Mike".

It's: El is either represented as an independent woman abuse survivor....

or a dependent. object.

[iamawillbyersakgae]

there's absolutely no fucking way that “you think I'm a monster too” is winning over “but you make me feel like I'm not a mistake at all, like I'm better for being different.”

there's absolutely no fucking way that “its not fate, it's not destiny, it's just simple dumb luck” is winning over “it was the best thing I've ever done.”

there's absolutely no fucking way that “you never say it” “i say it” is winning over “i didn't say it” “you didn't have to.”

there is absolutely NO. FUCKING. WAY. That “she’s gonna realize that she doesn't need me anymore” is winning over “so, yeah, I need you, mike, and I always will.”

It's so obvious which ship should be endgame???

[wcndertwins]

seeing as i’m part of the fandom it felt wrong not to address this in a post of my own, and by “this” i mean the video below:

i defended what he said regarding the lock necklace and i still think it was a valid analysis; it wasn’t at all explicit and it spoke only of the potential sex-life of an adult character played by an adult actor. to deny the possibility that a gay young man might be sexually active is, in my opinion, unrealistic.

however, i think it goes without saying that this is extremely weird and disturbing. associating children with porn and making sexual comments on a minor’s body is not okay. let’s not forget that noah was 17 when season 4 was filmed.

i’m against censorship in fandoms and had it been another minor saying this i might’ve brushed it off, but this is a grown man in his 40s that we’re talking about and it’s odd for him to be making these kinds of jokes.

as if the whole thing itself wasn’t enough, this was his response to a comment joking about how “the purists” were going to “come after” him:

it’s clear to me that he doesn’t see any wrong in his actions or show any kind of remorse. what he should do is take accountability.

if you think this behavior is justifiable, please feel free to unfollow my blog.

[zom61eboy]

show about outcasts and yet a big amount of fans act like this guy

[lavnetic]

and when El says "this is not like one of your campaigns" and Mike's smile falters at the memory of her commission where she uses dnd as an allegory to remind him he is the heart of the party, thinking something isn't adding up

and when he brings it up to her and she's visibly confused and then the dots start connecting in his mind and he is taking in the truth but then is crashed by the reality of their situation and how Will, the one whose feelings were displayed in that painting, might be about to die

and so he worries even more and he panics and he's losing it and BOOM. he's teleported to... the upside down? and there he is. Will. under Vecna's control. he tries to reach for him but he can't move. so he screams but nothing comes out. no one can hear him

the boy that needs him and always will need him is dying at the hands of this supernatural beast and he can't do anything. if only he had caught onto these feelings beforehand. if only he hadn't been so damn oblivious. what will he do now?

[lavnetic]

so wait is the scene where Will's unconscious and being carried by Joyce before or after Vecna's got him? like sequence might be the scene where Vecna gets Will and he maybe doesn't really take him anywhere but just kinda possesses him or something like what happened to Max takes place and Will gets stuck within a mindscape and then Mike and Joyce sort of get a hold of this unconscious Will and the whole ordeal takes place and then they take him to WSQK and we get that scene of him unconscious on the couch while Joyce and Mike are worried af and then El has to piggyback (peep the scene where she's in the swimsuit) in order to get Will back and we get the whole escape from camazotz episode of them trying to get Will out of the trance his in and we have a shed scene from season 2 parallel. and maybe they also get to break Max out of her "coma" (which i also believe is just her stuck within a mindscape created by Vecna, maybe even the same one Will's stuck in which leads me to believe this) along with Will since they're both stuck in the same mindscape. it's very likely that taking them out of those mindscapes might take El to use her powers at their maximum capacity which leads her to maybe switching places with both of them and she now lives within it, something she prob knew would happen but didn't tell anyone bc she knew they'd disagree with the whole thing but she just had to save her friends :( maybe she did end up telling Mike, hence the "you can't write this ending" scene.

but yeah idk lmk if this makes any sense i'm stilll processing the whole trailer it was insane and i've never been this impatient asjdksd

[l0sersitsbyherself]

Mike’s face when Lucas says ‘blind because you like that a girl’s not grossed out by you’ vs. Will’s face when Mike says ‘it’s not my fault you don’t like girls’

Their reaction is the same when they’ve been clocked that they don’t like girls the way they should. Lucas out right acknowledges that Mike doesn’t like El, he just likes that he fits into society’s standards of a girl liking him.

[ontheswingset]

something something the only two people in el’s life somehow compared to brenner are mike and hop because they’re both father figures and we see it from her perspective where she immediately associates any negative implications and harsh words as proof of brenner and she consequently ties it to low self worth. oh my dear el. fatherly love isn’t a contract to be renewed. but she’s halfway there. she needs family, she’s needed it since season 1. all this chasing after a relationship is due to her thinking it’s what’s normal, a compensation for a childhood lost to trauma and isolation. but what she’s really needed was family, a love which doesn’t ask for anything in return. and with hop being shown to have had character development in the parenting area since the end of s3, he’s gonna help her out. because el doesn’t only need independence. she’s not supposed to be jonathan or nancy either, all lonely and very rarely allowing herself to rely on a parental figure. she needs independence from mike and care from hopper, for the sake of all three of them. and she’s halfway there