Before home computers were very common, people typically only typed for business-related things, so the only people that actually knew how to use typewriters and word processors were authors, secretaries, accountants, etc. These people would take classes for typing bc it was seen as a skill. This gradually fell out of fashion, much like teaching kids cursive
Typing is only intuitive to gen y & z bc most of us learned through computer games or had someone tell us where to rest our fingers. People who never learned to type use just their index fingers, hit one key, take a long time to find the next letter, hit it with an index finger, and repeat until finished
34, had typing lessons in 3rd and 4th grade and Mavis Beacon as a kid and I’ve still never used home row except when I was forced to. I type everything with my left hand. The only thing my right is for is using the shift, backspace, and enter keys.
43, first had typing lessons in 4th grade on some type of Mac, then my mother bought me a book and a manual typewriter and made me learn to touch-type, for which I am still grateful 30+ years later. I remember how excited we were when we upgraded to an electric typewriter.
Of course, I got hit by nostalgia so hard that I recently bought a manual typewriter and have been writing letters to people with it! I love it to pieces.
28 and I learned to type through Type To Learn. I have severe dysgraphia to the point where I couldn’t keep up with writing in school early on, so the summer after second grade my parents trained me intensely on all the typing programs they could get, and found ways to help me learn to type fast.
#LMAO yeah^#i had computer class in 2001 where we eventually had to put paper over our hands to take a test to see if we could type without looking#we also played games#i hated the paper thing at the time. i knew i just needed MORE practice. i dont think i got GOOD at typing until a few years after that#also.. when you have a pen. you can just create the letter you need. with a keyboard you have to FIND IT. and its NOT IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER#how is that easier??#but i guess i dont know any kids whove grown up with computers and could probably type before they could write….????? 😳
Modern kids can’t type before they can write. I mean, most kids understand how to use a keyboard, and pressing letters takes less coordination than writing them so can be started at a younger age for learning to spell, but I’ve worked a lot with kids in the 8-14 year age bracket and they’re usually FASCINATED by how fast I type. (My typing speed is… not impressive. If they made me take one of those speed/accuracy tests they used to do for admin or data entry jobs, I would NOT pass.) But many of the kids I’ve worked with take my comfort and familiarity with a keyboard (I’m a writer) as some impressive, magical skill, because an awful lot of them are letter-peckers.
24, learned actual touch-typing when I was maybe 4 or 5 with this, the sound effects still live rent-free in my brain:
The shift keys on our computer were broken, so up until high school I would type capitals by turning caps lock on for a single key and then back off again.
I’m 39. We had typing lessons every year throughout elementary school. I never really got good at it until I started playing mmos, though.
My kids are in 5th and 6th grade. They’ve never even seen a fingering chart. The 6th grader is expected to do nearly all of his schoolwork on a computer, and he doesn’t even know the term “home row”. I don’t know how they expect them to excel without giving them the skills they need to use the tools they have to use.
I’ve gone what I can to help them learn how to type, but I’m not a teacher.
Typing classes were only availble to those taking the secretarial class, which was not open to boys.
It should be noted that there is a distinction between typing as it used to mean and word processing. Typewriters were unforgiving machines, not only could you not cut, paste or delete (for obvious reasons) so your spelling had to be very, VERY good, but the legibiity of each letter produced depended on how hard you hit the key (unless you went to a fancy school which had electric typewriters, which were not the norm).
Those of us who were subversive enough to learn keybaord skills through computing had a MUCH easier time of it. Though it was often offset by the shitty keyboards some computers had, and YES, I’m calling you out ZX81!
If you can’t see any depth to those keys, you are correct, they have none because the ZX81 keyboard was a damned membrane!
But believe me, if you could learn to typeat a decent speed on of these, then NOTHING could stop you, expcet for the fact that the odds were good you were typing faster than it could process input.
It’s successor, the ZX Spectrum had spongey keys, which whilst not great, were better than nothing.
Genuinely as a computing teacher in the 11-18 age group, I’m saying this now:
We need to bring back typing lessons to the curriculum. The kids will fly if you give them a tablet or smartphone but they have no clue on how to use a keyboard or keyboard shortcuts. If the senior PE class decides to be twats and pry up the keys and swap them round, I will still have 14/15 year olds unable to type because the keys are swapped. And I often don’t notice when helping them because I just.. touch type.
I legitimately broke a Higher Computing Science (so a 16 year old who had chosen to do computer stuff) by showing him how Ctrl+H let him find and replace because he’d made a consistent error in his code and I could see him going back and adding up all the time he’d spent trying to find all the incidences of a specific variable in his code and there I was showing him CTRL+F and all these things.
These kids might not pick a computer based subject after the age of 13 and half of them don’t understand file systems, version control, difference between cloud vs local storage, how to save, etc.
So many kids would just turn off the monitor and think that was the computer, usually leaving themselves logged in (to the point I locked the monitor power button and had multiple posters up reminding kids to press the spacebar on the keyboard to wake up the monitor first).
Basically, digital literacy is being fucking stolen by the appification of the digital platforms available to kids.
I teach computer science though and I do try to cover the basics (yes, including stuff mentioned above in the reblog chain) but I can’t teach typing for typing’s sake - I have exactly 18 lessons per class per year and a full curriculum with stuff that could fill 48 lessons easily.
I give them links to resources, access to typing games, we go over shortcuts, documents, powerpoints, basic internet research and more.
But I don’t have the time for typing.
Some of my students arrive being able to type, some arrive with basic knowledge, some will have seen a regular pc (ie not a tablet or phone) for the first time in real life in my class. I know that some will practice at home, some will use what they’ve learnt and that some will only touch a keyboard in my class and never outside of it.
This one kind of broke my brain. And the timeline. And common sense.
The costumes on the women look like they came from Party City.
Menelaus narrates the intro. I thought it was your standard omniscient narrator until he called Agamemnon “my brother”.
Why is Achilles bald?
Menelaus: “But that’s not the way it happened.” At least we’re acknowledging that we’re going to make narrative changes upfront.
Small child Cassandra: KILL MY BABY BROTHER!
Since she usually doesn’t get her powers until Apollo is old enough to find her attractive, I don’t know how she has prophecy powers already. In the myths Hecuba dreams that she gave birth to a torch and decides that’s a bad sign, then abandons the baby.
Hey, Priam, if you believe Cassandra, why don’t you listen to her at any point in the next twenty years after this?
Cassandra: If he lives, Troy will burn. *Priam literally falls down in shock.*
Priam immediately orders the baby be exposed. Hecuba does not like this idea but is ignored. At least Priam looks upset too.
The servant leaves baby Paris on a mountain, and then we get a hilarious zoom cut to some man watching in what honestly seems to be vague annoyance. I assume he is probably a god of some sort because he shows up when the servant invokes them.
Cue the shepherd rescue. Apparently he names him Paris.
Cut to older shepherd Paris and friends.
Paris chases down a runaway goat and finds goddesses in a cave instead.
They are very visually underwhelming.
Hera is more than wealth; she is rule and legitimacy.
Athena: Victory goes to the strong. No mention of wisdom at all? (The focus on victory and glory is quite apt though.)
Aphrodite shows Paris a vision of Helen in the apple somehow—with cruddy 2003 TV special effects.
And also Helen sees Paris in a stream at the same time????
Helen is the princess of Sparta. How is she wandering around alone outside?
The house of Atreus looks ominous. But since Atreus is still alive and he is most famous for cannibal banquet revenge that is appropriate.
The lion banners are likewise a nice touch.
At least Pollux says that Helen should be in the city and not outside.
Where is Castor?
Apparently the Atreids are here so Agamemnon can marry Clytemnestra. If that is happening Atreus should probably be dead.
For some reason Helen cannot pronounce Agamemnon's name.
How does Helen not know what Mycenae is?????? I can understand her not knowing what Menelaus or Atreus looks like, but it seems like she should know that.
They needed an audience infodump but it came at the expense of Helen looking like an idiot.
Mycenae brought a lot of (REALLY OBVIOUSLY FAKE) treasure. I can see glue.
Also Theseus is here in disguise. He should also be dead, or Helen should be much younger.
Theseus’ friend (Pirithous maybe): She’s super young.
Theseus: So I will wait until she is older!
Somehow this is still less creepy than the actual myth. At least here she is 16ish and not, like, 8-12.
Also I do not know why Theseus is here in disguise since he is himself royalty.
I do not think our friend here is Pirithous because he has a brain and knows this is stupid.
A reasonable crowd of extras is present for the arrival of the Atreids into Sparta.
The Atreids also have their synchronized horse dismount down pat.
Everyone in Mycenae wears black because subtlety is not allowed. On the other hand, Atreus did a cannibal banquet, so….
Tyndareus is here with Pollux (still no Castor), Clytemnestra, and the sneaking-in-late Helen. Where’s Leda?
Agamemnon very awkwardly proposes to Clytemnestra. Then everyone gets distracted by got-here-late Helen. Tyndareus is understandably annoyed.
Both Agamemnon and Menelaus are immediately laser-focused on Helen.
Pollux is told to take Helen to her room, and Tyndareus says she’ll sit out the wedding feast as punishment for potentially causing a geopolitical incident by being late.
Agamemnon recovers VERY BADLY from his attraction to Helen. Poor Clytemnestra. She’s getting married and her husband-to-be dresses like a supervillain and very clearly thinks her sister is the pretty one.
And then it gets even worse because he’s all like, “let Helen come to the feast anyway, so I can drool over her and not my bride.”
Menelaus offers to escort Helen, which ticks off Agamemnon even if he doesn’t say anything.
Yeesh…Agamemnon is actually one of the few men who DOESN’T seem especially obsessed with Helen in the myths, so it’s weird to add him to the already very very long list.
Helen comes across as unbelievably stupid. She’s a Spartan princess, not a modern teenager (and even for a modern teenager she seems dim).
Helen also has decided she’ll marry Paris after seeing him in the water, even though she thinks he’s a shepherd and also has no idea if he’s even real.
Pollux at least has a brain.
Helen, do you understand anything? Kings and princes want to marry you because you are pretty and also rich. This is basic Bronze Age marriage politics.
Agamemnon is, clearly, still only interested in Helen. Like, Clytemnestra is literally sitting next to him and he is looking away from her and directly at her sister.
Every other man in the room is staring at her too, and yes I know she is supernaturally beautiful but the lack of subtlety is kind of hilarious.
Helen is creeped out by Menelaus staring and Agamemnon staring and Menelaus staring at Agamemnon staring, and understandably tries to leave.
Then Theseus immediately kidnaps her! Not shown: how he and his buddy snuck into the palace.
Theseus murders two guards to facilitate the kidnapping. So now Helen is more traumatized than before.
Somehow he then escapes the whole city and attracts no more attention in the process.
Theseus and his pal gamble over who marries Helen. Theseus wins. Helen is way too calm around these armed men who kidnapped her and murdered people.
We do receive a sarcastic reference to the idiotic Persephone kidnapping plan–though since this Pirithous has a brain he clearly does not intend to actually do that.
The pal leaves, and Theseus introduces himself to the still-much-too-confident Helen.
Also Helen is not like other girls in the early 2000s way. Did she wander out of the wrong millennium?
Theseus somehow knows that Zeus is the father of Helen, but she does not???? How does Theseus know this? Why does Helen not?
Also is Clytemnestra older than Helen? Usually they are twins.
Also also is Pollux not the son of Zeus here? And where is Castor?
Also Leda killed herself after Zeus raped her????? How does Theseus know that???? (Sadly the dubious consent is accurate.)
Theseus, who is still a creepy kidnapper, fills Helen in on the story of her mother, which he knows but she does not. Apparently in this version Tyndareus was off in Egypt when Helen was conceived (only her—no birth of quadruplets via eggs), and Leda killed herself after Helen was born. Helen acts like she is only now realizing that Zeus was her dad, in spite of all the other very obvious context clues Theseus provided.
Theseus: Don't run away! There are wolves! I only kidnapped you and killed men in front of you, then gambled you like a horse!
This is so creepy, and the added pseudo-romance elements DO NOT help. At least in the myths no one pretended that Helen was attracted to Theseus….
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. STOP IT. EWWWWWWWWWW…….
Theseus is SO CREEPY.
Helen still has not worked out that Zeus is her dad yet. How?
Also, how does Theseus know all this? I assume Leda did not tell everyone who the father was before she killed herself.
Meanwhile, shepherd Paris idiotically decides to fight the taxation policy of Troy via a direct assault on the tax collector. Who, of course, actually works for his biological father. This ends badly. He also learns that the cow they are taking is for a competition, which will set up the plot where Paris is identified in said competition.
Paris promptly leaves for the cow. I will say I like that this Paris thinks of himself as a shepherd and not as a secret prince.
Troy is very cosmopolitan and wealthy, which is neat.
Cue Priam and the contest for the cow.
Oh, hi, Hector. Be prepared to lose so that Paris can be identified as a long-lost prince!
Paris predictably enters the contest. For some reason they provide him with armor when he signs up, instead of just letting the poor country rube be embarrassed/killed and/or refusing to let him participate.
No one ever beats Hector. So by movie law (and mythic prophecy), Hector now must lose.
As Paris spars with, and defeats, the man who took his cow, Cassandra notices him with dramatic zoom cuts.
Paris is injured, so Hector does not want to fight him but for some reason must.
Shepherd dad shows up and fails to talk Paris out of the contest.
Paris wins some more.
Cassandra identifies Paris just before he battles Hector.
Hector takes off his armor and decides he and Paris should…have a knife fight? Okay.
While the knife fight is in progress, Priam hears Cassandra whispering that Hector needs to kill Paris and works out that Paris is his secret son.
Cassandra screaming kill him at the top of her lungs distracts Hector, who was about to do exactly that, and Paris inevitably wins.
And now Hecuba has worked it out too.
Paris: I won the cow!!!
Priam: Are you the son we abandoned at birth because of a prophecy?
Paris: ????
Shepherd Dad: Surprise, you are adopted!
Paris: Why is the queen hugging me?
Cassandra: No no no no no….
Priam and Hecuba immediately proclaim the very-confused Paris as prince of Troy.
This is by far the most likable Paris has ever been. Ever.
Hector: Oh, by the way, we will all die because of you.
Paris: ?????
Meanwhile, Helen is still with her creepy kidnapper. And flirting with him and eeeeeeewwwwww.
Theseus, somehow, has stopped being a creep and no longer wishes to have sex with the teenager he kidnapped.
Why is he still keeping her then?
Pollux shows up to rescue his sister, who acts like her brother is there randomly rather than in response to the man who kidnapped her and murdered Spartan soldiers. Then she is upset when Theseus is killed. Why?
Like, if you want to do a psuedo-romance…DO NOT have him kidnap her. Make it a real misunderstanding!
Oh, and Theseus kills Pollux too. So now both of them are dead in myth-inaccurate ways! (Theseus is killed by another ruler after Athens banishes him; Pollux dies in a fight over cows. Neither kills the other.)
Achilles, the apple was thrown at the marriage of your parents. Helen is marrying less than a year later, apparently. You should be like two years old max. Not a fully adult man and inexplicably bald.
Seriously, he looks older than Odysseus.
Achilles is not one of the suitors of Helen, on account of the fact that he is 15 years old when the Trojan War starts at least ten years AFTER she is married to Menelaus (she has a 9-year-old when Paris takes her).
Why does he also look older than Agamemnon? Agamemnon and Clytemnestra have a daughter who is about the same age as Achilles!
Tyndareus blames Helen for his dead heir, because apparently he is awful. Pollux died rescuing her from her kidnapper. Yes, she bafflingly liked the kidnapper, but it was not in her control that they fought.
My daughter ruined my life! She will ruin yours too! Please start a war on my front lawn as I leave her to you with no safeguards! Seriously, does he want all the suitors to start a war in Sparta? Because that is obviously the most likely outcome.
Odysseus: Well, if that isn't a bad sign I don't know what is. I'm out.
Menelaus: I want to marry her. She is pretty.
Agamemnon: We should unite and conquer stuff because.
Achilles: You have no army because your dad is still alive somehow. Also I look older than you.
Agamemnon: My dad is about to kick the bucket. Then I inherit. Thus, conquest.
Achilles: Okay cool. For some reason I do not hate you.
Odysseus: I am already married! I would rather sow my fields with salt than leave for war. (Nice reference to his fake madness—but he should not be married yet!)
Achilles: EPIC GLORY FOREVER!!! (The funny bit is that he already looks older than Achilles usually makes it to, so his preference of short life is…a bit misplaced perhaps?)
Odysseus: Okay: we all swear an oath to go to war if Helen is kidnapped. That way we have an excuse for war. Now, we should gamble over who marries her.
Menelaus objects, even though everyone here but him and Achilles is already married, so he has a 50/50 shot.
Okay never mind apparently only Agammenon and Odysseus are married.
Agammenon has everyone hand over their seals, and Odysseus throws them all in the air, and declares that the seal that lands closest to this random jar marries Helen. That seems unnecessarily elaborate, but whatever.
Menelaus wins since his seal actually lands inside the jar. Also Agamemnon is apparently still obsessed with Helen and he clearly is mad his brother won.
It is possible for Menelaus and Agamemnon to have conflict for reasons other than both wanting the same woman.
Also Clytemnestra now has a five-year-old Iphigenia, and Helen is only now marrying. so…WAY more time has passed than I assumed. How long was Helen with Theseus? And why is Agamemnon still not over her?
Also Achilles should also be like 5-7 years old, since he is the fake husband that is used to lure Iphigenia to her death later, but no one mentions this.
Clytemnestra is also painfully unaware of the fact that her husband is apparently obsessed with her sister, in spite of the fact that it is painfully obvious, and was also painfully obvious when they were married 5 years back.
Meanwhile Paris is learning archery and is…bad at it???? I assume he will not stay terrible or that would be a bizarre inversion.
Priam has decided to send Paris to Sparta to convince Menelaus to convince Agamemnon not to declare war on Troy.
So…uh…how much time has passed since Paris was recognized as prince? I assumed that all the events were happening over a few months, but clearly I was wrong. Did the competition he won happen closer to the Clytemnestra marriage or to the death of Pollux?
Wait. Wait. Tyndareus died? When did that happen?
This adaptation has achieved a feat I believed impossible. It has made Paris more likable than Hector somehow.
Paris: This is an obvious death trap. The Atreid brothers will assume that I was sent to divide them and kill me, and you and Cassandra want me to die because of the prophecy and so you can be the only heir.
Wow. Smart Paris. That is new.
Also Hector had a million other brothers. Paris was not the only one. His death would not make Hector sole heir.
Cut to Paris in Sparta.
Clytemnestra: Helen, it was not your fault you were kidnapped. Thank you, Clytemnestra. Why is the future axe murderess the first person to say this?
Also, Agamemnon told Menelaus to make Helen appear before an army's worth of men naked for….uh…creepy reasons? That is beyond the pale, even for Bronze Age men. Seriously, the honor culture was insane and would never let this fly, because it would insult Menelaus.
Does Agamemnon want Menelaus to declare war on him? Because demanding your brother send his queen out naked in front of soldiers is absolutely an insult to him.
Agamemnon is a creep. This is clearly an extension of his weird obsession with his sister-in-law, and also possibly a way to undercut Menelaus as the new king of Sparta. Seriously, does he want a war with his brother?
Menelaus looks like he regrets his entire life, and since his older brother has apparently decided to turn his coronation into a humiliation of his entire household you can see why.
The actual reason this scene exists is 50% for voyeuristic sex appeal and 50% so the screenwriters can show how dark and awful the past was in ways that are actually entirely separate from the actual awfulness of the past.
Frankly, the realistic next step is another Atreid civil war.
Paris walks in on Agamemnon and his apparent attempt to declare war on his brother, and he and Helen exchange meaningful glances.
Agamemnon walks all over Menelaus and burns the peace proposition Paris brought immediately.
Menelaus is annoyed with his brother, but for some reason both he and Agamemnon assume Troy wants them divided and that this is bad. This in spite of the fact that, as underlined earlier, his brother is destroying his reputation in public.
I do not like Agamemnon. I swear I do not. But I keep running into film adaptations that crank his evil up to ten thousand and then I have to defend him. The 1956 Helen of Troy film made him essentially a loot-obsessed pirate. The 2004 Troy film made him EVIL CONQUEROR MAN. This film makes him a creep who apparently wants to have Menelaus declare war on him, and also kept the EVIL CONQUEROR MAN.
Agamemnon is not always likable, but he has more than one dimension and while he is creepy about women in the usual cultural way he is not creepy about Helen specifically in ways that would cause a war with Menelaus.
Helen nearly commits suicide for frankly understandable reasons before Paris saves her. They ID one another from their respective visions from years back, and….Paris is stupid immediately and wants to marry her in spite of all the reasons that will not work.
I liked this Paris until this moment, but now he is subject to the narrative curse of being Paris.
Clytemnestra knows about the affair, which is…new.
Also they fall in love SUPER fast.
Clytemnestra promptly slaps Helen because this affair could have her killed. Helen wants to die, so this is not a deterrent.
Clytemnestra then explains the evil plan: the Atreids will pump Paris for information, Agammenon and Clytemenestra will return home, and then Menelaus will…be cursed for violation of xenia I suppose because apparently he is supposed to kill Paris.
This is a recurring problem. Adaptations usually make the Atreides EVIL, but they often fall into the trap of so therefore, they will casually do stuff that would curse everyone or cause a war for no particular reason.
Menelaus really comes across as a) completely clueless and b) a spineless pushover. It’s not a good look.
His crown is a really really thin band that looks very flimsy.
Agamemnon’s actor reminds me of the guy who played the villain in A Knight’s Tale. I don’t think it’s actually the same actor, but they have similar hair and eyes and both of them wear black. (Later observation: It actually IS the same actor. I looked it up because I was curious.)
Agamemnon does a not-evil thing for the first time in the entire movie when he plays with Iphigenia.
Menelaus appears to think that he is living in Classical Sparta. He’s not. The insane child-rearing Sparta is from around 600-300 BC. This is Mycenaean Greece; the “let’s make all our children fight each other and steal food” collective childrearing hasn’t been established yet.
Also never mind not making him 100% EVIL, Agamemnon is creepily staring at his sister-in-law AGAIN.
And now he’s cornered her and is cupping her face in his hands…and Clytemnestra has finally clocked that something is wrong.
Agamemnon was indeed ambitious, but not necessarily “conquer the entire Aegean” ambitious. He wasn’t just EVIL CONQUEROR MAN.
I’m not sure the litter Clytemnestra is being carried on is historically accurate, but it’s more convincing than the super-plastic-looking pin holding Agamemnon’s cloak in place.
Paris is remarkably nonchalant about the fact that his host is planning to murder him and his entourage and then desecrate their corpses.
Helen slips in a knife under the pretense of talking to Paris, and somehow this tiny knife allows him and his two attendants to overpower two fully armed guards (in their fake-looking armor).
Then the four of them escape the entire kingdom of Sparta on horseback and make it to their ship…apparently without attracting Menelaus’ attention.
Helen initially apparently plans to stay…only to change her mind at the last minute, jump into the water, and swim to Paris’ boat. That was unnecessarily dramatic.
Cut to Agamemnon boxing with some guy. Sure? He wins pretty handily, so at least he’s competent at something.
Menelaus is very upset about his missing wife, and also finally tells Agamemnon to stop pushing him around so much, after several dozen scenes of Agamemnon pushing him way harder than he did in this scene. And he completely fails as Agamemnon basically goes, “you can have your wife and your revenge, but nothing else. I get all the loot!” And Menelaus GOES ALONG WITH THIS. Menelaus, please grow a spine.
Bad winds have trapped the Greeks, including bald Achilles, Menelaus, and Agamemnon, at port for two months.
Calchas tells Agamemnon that he has to sacrifice his daughter for the winds, for…uh…reasons. Usually either Agamemnon ticks off Artemis by boasting, or his dad Atreus ticked her off by not sacrificing to her, but here it seems like she just decides Iphigenia must die for no apparent reason.
Also in this version Iphigenia is five, so it’s even worse than usual.
Iphigenia’s cute pink dress is adorable but in no way looks like it belongs in Ancient Greece.
Agamemnon sacrifices her with approximately 0% hesitation. Like he looks vaguely horrified for a few seconds but the whole sequence lasts maybe five minutes.
Also no one else objects either. (Clytemnestra appears to be uninformed, and is not present for the sacrifice. No idea what story he came up with for her in this version, but it can’t be the fake marriage to Achilles because in this version Achilles is like 40 and bald and Iphigenia is five.)
Paris and crew, meanwhile, have been caught in a gigantic storm. The mast breaks and people are falling overboard all over the place, so I don’t know how anyone is going to make it back to Troy.
Paris and Helen somehow survived the massive storm and are now kissing in the water, because apparently somehow the ship was able to be repaired and no one died. HOW?
Paris: I should just stay here with you and be a shepherd. Me: Excellent idea. But you won’t do that, because, as you point out, Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN and is going to attack no matter what, so Troy has to be warned about the invasion. Wait. That’s actually reasonable. I guess smart Paris is back.
Wow the Greeks sure do have awful CGI ships, which are sailing to what sounds a lot like the Imperial March from Star Wars.
Paris and Helen arrive in Troy and run through the crowd of extras in their not-remotely-historically--accurate clothes to find Hector, who is understandably annoyed, and then takes Paris to Priam. Priam is equally unimpressed. “Thanks for the war, moron.”
Paris persuades Troy to let Helen stay by explaining that a) Helen was being mistreated and b) Agamemnon was planning on attacking anyway. Since both of these are true in this movie, he actually makes a not-terrible point.
Cassandra insists that Helen needs to be sent back. No one listens because apparently they only listened to her when she was a child, and not when she’s an adult saying roughly the same things.
Also this show seems to imply that Troy doesn’t care about glorious death in battle, and doesn’t mistreat women, but the Greeks do. In the actual Iliad everyone on both sides cares a lot about glorious death in battle.
All of the costumes in this movie look so fake, especially the fancy ones. That dress Helen’s wearing looks like the Cleopatra dress I got for like twenty bucks at Party City.
Helen asks to go back to Menelaus, presumably to save Troy, but as this movie has underlined, Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN and wanted to attack anyway so this seems pointless.
Agamemnon’s ship is not CGI because he needs to be able to stand on it. His armor looks super super fake.
Oh, wow, Menelaus and Odysseus actually do their diplomatic mission to Troy to try to get Helen back! That was unexpected.
Odysseus’ armor also looks super fake.
Menelaus sounds like he’s never given a speech before. Odysseus has to intervene to keep him from completely embarrassing himself and ruining the whole situation.
Helen and her Party City Cleopatra outfit chat with Priam. She tells him that she loves his son, and that sending her back will not stop the war because Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN, so there is no reason to send her back at this point.
Agamemnon, Menelaus, Bald Achilles, and Odysseus plan strategy. Where is everyone else? Did Nestor, the Ajaxes, and Diomedes get lost?
Priam decides not to send Helen back for incredibly obvious reasons.
How are those South American parrots in Troy in 1200 BC?
Agamemnon, Bald Achilles, and their men climb a really steep cliff face at night. The next morning, Menelaus and Odysseus lead the ships and everyone else in a frontal attack. I feel like Odysseus and Bald Achilles should have been switched around.
The direct assault promptly starts getting mowed down by the Trojan archers.
Seriously, we put Agamemnon and Achilles on the stealth commando mission, but not Odysseus?
And now….FIRE ARROWS.
The gates of Troy are still open for some reason (seriously, I would think everyone would have already fled inside the city by this point), allowing the commando team to slip into Troy in their dubious Jedi cloak disguises.
Somehow the advancing army manages to close range, and the Trojan archers fall back and allow the rest of the Trojan army to step in. Cue a confusing battle with spinny camera, blurry transitions and rapid cuts so you can’t tell what’s happening.
The commando team are actually really terrible at stealth (you can see Agamemnon’s armor, and he shoves people out of his way in a very obvious manner), and so of course they get caught.
Hector and Paris leave and immediately engage them with a small force and fake fake armor.
Bald Achilles isn’t even wearing armor. He’s just got this weird harness thing. Not that it stops him from beating everyone up.
So the Greeks are currently failing on both fronts because they put Odysseus on the direct assault and had Agamemnon and Achilles attempt stealth.
The Trojans mow down even more Greeks when they start shooting arrows from the wall—and then everything goes into extreme slow motion when Menelaus sees Helen on the ramparts. It’s like he and the movie have forgotten he’s fighting in the middle of a pitched battle. Everything and everyone around him freezes and he just walks closer to the walls, seemingly unaffected by the time freeze that hit everyone else.
Helen is also apparently immune to the time freeze. Did they enter another dimension or what?
The arrows are just hanging there frozen in the sky!
And then everything goes back to normal like that didn’t just happen.
Odysseus: Where is Agamemnon? He’s supposed to be here by now! Me: Maybe you shouldn’t have let him and bald Achilles do a stealth mission without you.
Meanwhile, Agamemnon is swordfighting Hector because the stealth mission has completely imploded—and somehow Menelaus and some of his men have gotten inside the city with no disguise at all so the stealth mission was pointless anyway.
Agamemnon nearly kills Hector, pauses to scream for no reason, is attacked by Paris, cuts Paris’s blade in two like it’s made of paper—and then fails to kill Hector since he moved out of the way while Agamemnon was focused on Paris. Agamemnon, completely casually: Unfortunate.
Hector proceeds to save Paris from Agamemnon, so Agamemnon is 0 for 2 on dead Trojan princes.
Odysseus finally realizes that they should pull back so they don’t all get killed by the archers on the walls.
Back inside the city, Paris and Hector do Aladdin-level parkour as they avoid the Greek soldiers by balancing on roofs and narrow beams and swinging on hanging fabric.
Where the heck did Bald Achilles go?
Somehow Agamemnon and Menelaus get back outside the city and the Greeks retreat. The Trojans finally close their gate.
Cassandra predicts the entire course of the next ten years. No one listens, no matter how much she insists they need to kill Paris. They listened to her when she said they should kill baby Paris earlier. Why does no one believe her now?
Ten years promptly pass with no one visibly aging.
Also apparently the suitors are already pestering Penelope and she’s already doing the weaving trick, even though he’s demonstrably alive and at Troy, and it’s only been ten years and not twenty and….how does Odysseus know about this anyway?
Random cut to Clytemnestra, who also hasn’t aged in ten years, telling someone that she wants to know what happens at Troy. This is technically accurate (she does have a revenge plan in the works by this point), but it seems weird to just randomly cut back to her at this point.
Helen and Paris, who have also not aged in ten years, are taking a bath because…sex appeal I guess?
Agamemnon then proposes that Menelaus and Paris have their duel to determine the outcome of the war, which seems weird since earlier he was EVIL CONQUEROR MAN. They’re going to duel…with javelins. For some reason.
Why is Menelaus sharpening his sword for a javelin duel? Also apparently the javelins being used for the duel belonged to Atreus, so they should probably dump them into the sea, because those things have to be mega cursed.
Everyone from both armies turns up to watch the duel, including Agamemnon, Odysseus, and Bald Achilles, who are apparently the entire command staff of the Greek army in this version. Seriously, where are Nestor, the Ajaxes, Diomedes, and everyone else? And why hasn’t Achilles done anything narratively important?
Also, it just occurred to me that Hector is apparently unmarried and appears to have no child, and also that Patroclus doesn't seem to exist.
Paris misses his first javelin throw. Menelaus doesn’t miss, but Paris’ shield keeps it from actually injuring him—he only gets hurt because he pulls the javelin out of the shield so badly that he somehow cuts his other arm. Also, Menelaus takes off his helmet in the middle of a duel to the death for no reason at all.
Both grab a second javelin. Menelaus deflects Paris’ second javelin with his shield. Menelaus either misses his second throw or Paris deflects with his own shield. Neither one is coming across especially well.
Paris and Menelaus seem to collectively decide javelins are pointless and draw their swords. This leads to a reasonably competent sword duel—until Menelaus decides that he should start hitting Paris with his shield instead. This causes both men to lose their shields somehow.
Paris appears to get a concussion or something and falls down. Menelaus looks like he can’t believe he actually accomplished something, which is really funny in a sad way. Then….HE BREAKS HIS SWORD ON PARIS’S HELMET when he tries to kill him. HOW?
Seemingly having run out of good options, Menelaus starts sort of dazedly trying to strangle Paris with his helmet strap by dragging him on the ground behind him, only for the helmet strap to break. (This does sort of happen in the Iliad, but the strap breaks because Aphrodite intervenes, not just randomly.) Then a cloud of dust kicks up out of nowhere, and Menelaus and Paris somehow end up sitting next to each other in a barn and not trying to kill each other.
Apparently, the reason Paris started getting dizzy is because somehow the javelin that Paris injured himself with was tipped with a non-lethal poison the Thracians use to hunt monkeys (????), and I guess Agamemnon did that without Menelaus knowing. That does not, however, explain where that smoke came from or why Menelaus is no longer trying to kill Paris and is now just chatting with him.
Paris: Your brother is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN. He doesn’t care about you or Helen. So why are the two of us trying to kill each other?
Menelaus: Good question. I’ll just leave now.
When he walks out first, everyone assumes he killed Paris. Then Paris himself walks out and everyone realizes that apparently they just decided to quit their duel to the death, to the confusion of all involved, especially the audience.
And yeah I guess Agamemnon really did poison the weapons. Also Hector is now challenging him to a duel to solve the first duel, which ended in Menelaus just sort of walking away. Bald Achilles then decides he’s subbing in for Agamemnon for glory and stuff.
Achilles tells Hector to throw the spear at him, and actually turns around and just stands there to let him throw. Hector refuses to spear him in the back—and Achilles whirls around and throws his spear right into Hector. What a weird take on their duel.
And now Achilles is doing corpse desecration because…why? No, really, why? There is no Patroclus. No revenge. He’s just evil I guess.
Also apparently Priam and Hecuba kept Cassandra locked in a literal dungeon to keep her quiet, which makes them really unsympathetic.
Helen visits Cassandra to try to figure out what’s going on and how to save Paris. She tells Helen that if she surrenders to Agamemnon the Greeks will leave and Paris will live, and also that Achilles will die, that Ajax will die (I had no idea there was an Ajax in this movie), and that everyone but Menelaus will be wounded.
Helen promptly leaves the city and makes it to the Greek camp, where Achilles is doing more corpse desecration for no reason. Paris follows her out because he’s stupid.
Helen then makes the following offer: you can have me if you give up Hector’s body to Troy.
Oh, now Agamemnon is upset about Iphigenia’s death, and so refuses the trade. Where was remorse and grief when it actually happened?
Helen leaves the tent, and Agamemnon follows her while everyone else cheers Achilles.
Paris then shows up to challenge Agamemnon to another duel to the death. Achilles jumps in again, challenging him in his chariot. Paris grabs a bow from a Greek soldier who was sleeping on the job and shoots Achilles through the heel, which makes him fall out of the chariot and die.
Helen and Paris make a run for it and the Greek army follows.
Trojan archers appear from nowhere, and a battle breaks out. Agamemnon shows up out of nowhere and stabs Paris to death.
And now…somehow we are at the Trojan horse plot immediately.
Helen doesn’t trust the horse. Priam immediately wants to burn it, but is talked out of doing so.
Wait. Sinon is in this movie? He’s in this movie, but Ajax isn’t. Okay.
The Trojans literally destroy their own wall to get the horse inside because Sinon said that the Greeks thought they couldn’t do it, and that’s enough to completely change Priam’s mind about the horse. Now he has to prove the Greeks were wrong even though he thought the horse was a trap three minutes ago and it still could be.
During the celebrations, Helen goes to visit Cassandra again. Cassandra is vague and unhelpful.
Cue the typical sack of the city—this was indeed Odysseus’ scheme as per usual. Odysseus even correctly acknowledges Sinon as his cousin.
Agamemnon kills Priam and leaves Hecuba to be killed because he is EVIL.
And then he rapes Helen because he is EVIL. Menelaus tries to stop this, and fails. So now Menelaus should 100% want to declare war on him.
They get home, and Clytemnestra promptly throws a net over Agamemnon while he’s in the bathtub and stabs him to death. HURRAH!
Oh, wait, never mind. They’re still in Troy. Then how did Clytemnestra teleport in from nowhere? Did Agamemnon have her brought to Troy?
Helen is still sad about Paris for obvious reasons. She sees his ghost or something, and they have a brief farewell reunion. Then Menelaus, who has to be like seven hundred types of traumatized, and the equally traumatized Helen, meet up again. And they leave Troy together. The end?
Menelaus feels like he was supposed to have a character arc and then never really did.
Okay, time for Troy (2004) and Brad Pitt doing Achilles things. We shall see if I can stop thinking of him as the actor.
We open with a slightly less awful map than the one from the 1956 Helen of Troy movie that helpfully shows all the important cities.
I do not recall Agamemnon trying to conquer all of Greece.
The wailing woman and drums over a very long scrolling backstory infodump is a choice.
Agamemnon: I am an evil conqueror. Boo me.
I do not like Agamemnon. How do these movies keep putting me in a position where I have to defend Agamemnon?
Time for a 1-on-1 duel between enormous muscleman and Achilles, who is working for Agamemnon for unclear reasons. Except not immediately because Achilles does what he wants and is not with the army.
The answer to what Achilles is doing is apparently: frat boy party nonsense. Also, we sent a small child to find him, which seems very risky for said child.
Achilles dismisses his own legend of being unkillable (fair if we're just adapting Homer) and his goddess mom (what?). Small child: I wouldn't want to fight that other guy. Achilles: That's why no one will remember your name. Yeesh, dude. Way to be a jerk to a 10-year-old.
Achilles: how dare this literal child not act like me?
Also Troy hasn't happened yet so he should not be famous but is.
Agamemnon threatens to have Achilles whipped which....what? Achilles is a prince.
Unless Achilles is not a prince here but that would be a different can of worms and is not implied at all.
Achilles understandably responds to this stupid threat by almost leaving and probably-Nestor has to talk him back into the duel. Though the save the soldiers pitch he provides is...only sorta Bronze Age.
I do not think Achilles cares that much about common soldiers. Or anyone who is not him or his immediate circle.
That being said his hatred of Agamemnon is on point.
Achilles wins the duel with 0 effort, as is appropriate.
Meanwhile, Menelaus is trying to make peace with Troy (which is weird since Sparta had no particular beef with Troy before the war but whatever).
Helen looks way too modern.
Also seriously Sparta and Troy were not at war before the Trojan War.
Why is Hector in Sparta?
Hector watches Paris follow Helen upstairs with this slow-motion oh crap face, which is very funny---but also, dude. STOP YOUR IDIOT BROTHER!
Cue the affair, which I see we are making consensual here. Hector should really do something about this apparently multi-day affair.
Hector, please act. Nervous glances do not count.
Okay we are making sure no one feels bad for Menelaus by demonstrating he also cheats. Oh and also he will kill them over the affair.
Paris: Come with me even though everyone will die! This is not romantic, movie.
Also Menelaus is a lot older than his wife, because NO SUBTLETY ALLOWED.
Hector is apparently good at whittling, and Paris comes up to him and is all like, would you protect me? and Hector looks at him like, what a weirdly specific question, and then Paris is like, I hid the wife of someone else on our boat.
Hector should probably turn the boat around, but for some reason does not.
Menelaus threatens a servant girl about his wife's location with a knife because the audience is not supposed to feel bad for him.
Oh, hey, Hector just did what I said he should do...only for Paris to be all like, then I will DIE. Hector correctly insists his brother is an idiot. And for some reason instead of letting his idiot brother face the consequences for his own idiocy, Hector...does not do this.
I hate Paris. So much. Somehow more than myth Paris.
Paris in adaptations: we try to make him sympathetic and he becomes insufferable instead.
Menelaus: I want to kill my wife. Because YOU WILL DISLIKE MENELAUS.
Agamemnon is in his ominous court of evil and now he and his brother just want to conquer and destroy because EVIL. DO NOT FEEL CONFLICTED.
I don't really like Agamemnon. WHY AM I DEFENDING HIM FROM ADAPTATIONS? (Ironically, I like him a lot more now than I used to because these movies keep making him EVIL CONQUEROR MAN, and while Agamemnon is very frustrating he is not a one-dimensional psychopath.)
Agamemnon: YAY my brother's wife cheated on him, now I can do war!
Agamemnon: The gods protect only the strong! I AM A VILLAIN! DO NOT MISTAKE THIS POINT.
He might as well have a black hat and a moustache.
I am EVIL, and Menelaus is EVIL, and DO NOT THINK ABOUT THIS AND WHAT IT MEANS THAT BRAD PITT ACHILLES GOES ALONG WITH THIS.
Agamemnon is apparently Otto von Bismarck or Alexander the Great or something.
In the 1956 film Paris was from the wrong millennium and talked like an Enlightenment skeptic. In this film Agamemnon is from the wrong millennium instead.
Nestor is extremely unimpressed by the villain monologue.
Bewildering Ancient Greek ruins are bewildering because they shouldn't even be built yet. How are there classical ruins in Mycenaean Greece? The buildings that will become said ruins have not been built!
Brad Pitt Achilles is dueling probably-Patroclus when the EVIL IMPERIAL ARMY arrives.
Achilles chucks a spear to make a point to the EVIL ARMY.
Odysseus is here and you will like him because he is magic and he is always likable in all adaptations.
Odysseus: fight because you'll look cool and my wife will feel better if you are there. Achilles: I hate Agamemnon and this war is stupid but okay.
The movie: Don't think too hard about how EEEEEEEVIL we made Menelaus and Agamemnon and what that says about the morality of Odysseus and Achilles.
Also since the Oath of Tyndareus doesn't exist why is Odysseus even here?
Thetis is here and...vaguely wet. She tries to talk Achilles out of going to Troy, and sets up the usual glory vs life setup. Achilles stares into the middle distance and goes to Troy. Except it's weird since she's not clearly supernatural and this isn't clearly a prophecy.
Also apparently Greece raised an entire army in the time it took Paris to get back to Troy. HOW?
Hector perpetually looks like he's internally panicking.
Paris: This is going great. Consequences don't exist.
Aww Andromache and baby. Wait. If the baby is here already how will he still be a baby in ten years? That kid should not be here yet.
Briseis was not a cousin of Hector. She definitely wasn't a priestess of Apollo.
Hector has common sense which everyone ignores. Poor Hector. Also Menelaus is STILL EVIL and would torture peace emissaries.
Hector: WE ARE DOOMED. Priam: This is fine. Hector: HELP ME.
And suddenly Hector forgets he's in the Bronze Age. "How many battalions does the sun god command?" Dude. Don't mock Apollo. That's how you die.
Paris: We should leave. Yes, you should. But you won't because this movie runs on stupid. Paris: I can survive without servants. Me: Press "x" to doubt. Helen: Menelaus and Agamemnon are EVIL and will kill everyone even if we leave. Paris: Then I'll tell your husband that I love you to his face! Paris, you idiot.
Hector: AAAAAHHHH HELP ME.
Also instead of nightmare screaming statue Athena like the 1956 film had this Troy has weird Zeus statue instead.
Awwww Hector and Andromache and shouldn't-be-here-yet baby are adorable.
Aaaand here come the ships and Hector’s oh crap please help face.
Also the crowds of extras are here and they are following in the footsteps of the 1956 extras. PANIC, civilization is about to end!
Also the male soldier extras do their cardio workout.
Oh and this time we also have boat-rowing extras.
Achilles lands before everyone and just...attacks. Achilles: No fighting for you Patroclus.
Hector: AAAAAAHHHHH
Hector: I am defending everyone. Achilles: DIE FOR GLORY FOREVER!!!
Oh and the fire arrows are here. Movies love those.
Cue extras dying dramatically.
Achilles: leads his crew of 50 guys to run straight at the fire arrows. Is shocked many of them die.
Okay then they do this, like, turtle formation thing with their shields that they stole from Rome and this works but...nice time travel.
Achilles: I READ TACTICS FROM THE FUTURE!
Ajax is impressed by Achilles' ability to predict future warfare, chucks a guy out of his seat and starts rowing himself so he can also fight.
Achilles seriously just becomes a Roman centurion somehow. There is no way turtle formation with circular shields should be something he comes up with. Or that works.
Hollywood seems to believe that all warfare prior to the invention of guns was one conglomerate where everyone used the same weapons and tactics. It was not.
Hector is now facing an army with tactics from a thousand years in the future and an army motivated by ideas from 3,000 years in the future.
Also Ajax is basically a Viking. Never mind that he's 2,000 years too early for that, the film is screaming "BARBARIAN WARLORD" as loudly as possible. Though ironically culturally the vikings were probably closer to Mycenaean Greece than the Roman imperial army.
Ajax: I have a warhammer and just got shot and I am still going!
Achilles: I'm going to raid a temple of Apollo because I want to die.
Achilles: LOOT THE TEMPLE BECAUSE APOLLO IS FIGHTING FOR TROY! Everyone else: YAY! Me: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???
Some guy with a brain: This is an awful idea, Apollo will kill us. Achilles: Decapitates the Apollo statue.
Cue the Trojan army because turns out this was a dumb idea.
Then Achilles turns the ambush into an ambush and...how? These dudes were looting two minutes ago!
Also Achilles killed the priests of Apollo...and plague. Plague now. He should be dead. HOW IS HE NOT DEAD?
Hector: Fight me! Achilles: Nah. I want to fight you when it looks cool. Guy with a brain: Why did you let him go? Achilles: Eh, I didn't want to kill him yet.
Achilles: I just ticked off Apollo and didn't kill Hector! Greek army: YAY!
Seriously maybe a hundred Trojan soldiers are dead and Achilles sacked a mostly unguarded temple. What did this accomplish?
Ajax: I love how you accomplished nothing meaningful and angered the gods. Achilles: Cool. Me, too. Nice Viking cosplay. (Okay, he doesn't really say that last part but still.)
Also we captured a priestess of Apollo. Hey, Achilles--slave woman! Radioactive slave woman, but you've already basically declared war on Apollo so we might as well keep digging this hole.
Briseis: Apollo is mad. Achilles: I'm stronger than him. Me: You have a death wish.
Achilles (in a dismissive, you-do-not-know-about-the-real-world way): You're royalty. Me: SO ARE YOU!
Also the other leaders should be panicking about Apollo, not celebrating a victory. Because the victory was temple desecration.
The Bronze Age did not run on optional deities!
Odysseus: War is young men fighting and old men talking. Ignore the politics. Me: But he already does that, and that is the problem! Now Apollo is mad.
Agamemnon: Evil villain speech! I am king and I will be remembered and did I mention no one cares about soldiers and I am king! Wrong century, dude.
Agamemnon: also I want to be cursed so I will take the priestess of Apollo and also the loot.
So basically the whole army should be cursed by this point and Troy should win because the Achaean army has collectively endorsed a war with Apollo. But nope.
Hector, meanwhile, is trapped with men who think walls will solve all their problems (the walls will not) and has the same help me face he has had all movie. Really, the actual correct point to be made is, we will definitely win because our enemy decided to declare war on Apollo, but no one says that.
Hector: Apollo apparently is AWOL, so we are doomed. He is not wrong in the context of the film, sadly.
Adapting the Iliad while pretending the gods functionally don't exist is like adapting Dracula but insisting vampires aren't real.
Also, Bronze Age people believed in gods even if the plot does not. Having characters act like 20th century skeptics is jarring.
Historical movie making 101: the past is not the present in all ways and acting like it is will make history nerds side-eye you.
Historical moviemaking 101 part 2: When choosing anachronisms for a modern audience, always drop the ritualized sex slavery before you drop the gods.
Otherwise you end up with “ancient people thought like we do but were evil barbarians”.
Paris: I will duel Menelaus! Me: And then you will run away.
Priam, you should really be harsher on your idiot son. “I'm in love” is only an acceptable motivation up to a point and we are long past it.
Poor Andromache, and baby, and Hector and his oh crap face.
Hector: You know I don't want to fight. Me: This is 1200 BC. You are a prince. Everyone always fights.
Helen tries to leave and return to Menelaus to prevent a pointless war. Hector says it is too late, which is probably true, but his reasons do not make sense. Hector : Do you think Agamemnon cares about his brother's marriage? Me: Yes, actually. Because this is 1200 BC and honor culture requires everyone to react to insults. So Agamemnon would care.
Why is everyone enabling Paris? Now Hector and Helen are at it too.
MASSES OF EXTRAS WITH SHIELDS!
We have been here 1 day and Achilles is ALREADY SULKING.
This is like the reverse of the 1956 movie where it felt like he was in his tent, mad, for literal years. Here he arrives at Troy, has the argument with Agamemnon, and then quits the war in a day.
Also he has totally trashed his own tent. Why?
Maybe Achilles really does have a death wish, because he says that he thinks the men he killed are waiting in the Underworld for him to die.
Yes, Achilles, we do understand. Dad doesn't tell you what to do and you think Patroclus should also be a rebel without a cause.
Also all the tents are super dark and make it hard to see.
EXTRAS ON WALLS.
MASSIVE ARMY. How many people were in this movie?
Helen's dress looks wrong and I cannot work out why. But it does not look like it fits in the world.
The modern makeup does not help. I just noticed it.
I am impressed by Hector's ability to maintain an oh crap face in like every shot.
Never mind, Andromache is from the future too. But the men look fine.
More extras cardio.
Who is that older Trojan man on the horse? Priam is on the wall. Maybe I forgot he was someone important in between when I watched the first part of the movie and now.
Now Priam also has an oh crap face. Andromache too.
Man, I know I said Ajax was a Viking but I forgot how much he looks like a Viking.
Agamemnon: I AM A CONQUEROR AND YOU MUST SUBMIT TO ME OR DIE.
I AM SO EVIL! LOOK AT HOW EVIL!
Paris is stupid and does in fact tell Menelaus that he wants to keep his wife because he loves her. Idiot.
Time for a duel! I hope they both die.
Menelaus: I would like to kill this man because he took my wife. Agamemnon: LOL, your wife does not matter, I just want to conquer the world.
Menelaus: Let me kill him, then we can break the assumed treaty and take over anyway!
WE ARE EVIL!!!
Also I feel like Paris and Hector should have heard that. They are maybe 15 feet away.
Hector to Paris: DO NOT DIE. Paris: Helen and stuff! Hector: WAR NOW, LADY FRIEND LATER!
Menelaus swinging his sword around like that does not make him look scary. It just looks a bit silly. I know the idea is maybe that he is testing it but it looks weird.
Menelaus: Throws his shield away like an idiot. Agamemnon is amused.
Paris proceeds to demonstrate why shields are in fact useful.
I am not sure Menelaus knows how to actually fight. Those wild overhead swings are…questionable.
Dude, seriously, you are not accomplishing anything. Shields do not break that easily; you are just making noise. Strike anywhere else!
Okay at least you did something different by kicking him off-balance.
Agamemnon is still amused. Maybe because this is manifestly a battle between two men who have never held a sword before and do not know what they are for.
And now Menelaus…punched him? Okay I suppose.
Menelaus somehow pulls the shield away from Paris and throws it away too. KEEP IT!
Agamemnon: *wheezing with laughter* They are SO BAD at this! (Okay he does not say that but he must be thinking it.)
And now Paris punched Menelaus because this is basically a drunk bar fight.
AND FINALLY Menelaus makes contact and Paris is cut in the leg.
Okay, kill him.
Never mind. Villain monologue.
And now Paris has lost the sword. Menelaus…punches him. JUST STAB HIM!
Kill him. Kill him. Why are you not killing him??? You have a sword!
And surprise surprise your delay allowed him to avoid your attempt to decapitate him while standing next to him.
Menelaus: I AM BETTER THAN HIM, HELEN! Me: No, you are not. You are both terrible warriors in different ways.
Menelaus: FIGHT ME COWARD. Me: You could have killed him seventy seconds ago!
Anyway while Menelaus yells like a rabid idiot, his brother is all like, Troy has broken the deal. WAR!!!
Hector, I would say you should let your idiot brother die but at this point it does not matter.
Wait…did Menelaus just DIE? But…but…but…
Well, now the timeline is broken.
Priam's reaction face is…well, it's something.
Oh, hey, Achilles came out of his tent to watch .
Okay, I know it was supposed to be like a cry of grief or rage but Agamemnon's yell was hilarious.
Cue extras charging en masse with swords and spears.
Paris runs toward the enemy army like an idiot to find his sword. Why did you not try that before Menelaus was killed????
Massive shield collisions everywhere.
The Trojan archers do a very impressive job of killing the advancing army.
Achilles is basically me. He is yelling at the other leaders while watching from a cliff.
Cue Hector vs Viking Ajax and his anachronistic war hammer. This duel is supposed to happen later and be more formal, but hey, at least it happened.
And these two can actually use their weapons, unlike Menelaus and Paris, who ended up as Fat Clown vs Useless Dweeb.
Okay that warhammer smash through the shield was awesome. Even if that hammer came from the future.
Wait….AJAX IS DEAD TOO??????
You know you could do something Achilles.
The Greeks continue to run straight towards the wall of archers.
Where is Odysseus? Did he also quit the war????
Oh, there he is. He is telling Agamemnon to pull back before everyone dies.
So now the Greeks have… Agamemnon, Odysseus, and technically Nestor but he is 85, plus sulking Achilles. (Diomedes is not here). This looks real bad on their part.
Unlike Agamemnon, Hector knows not to run at archers.
Cue mass burials, most of which are attributable to Agamemnon being an idiot. So…how did this man conquer all of Greece as per earlier in the film, again?
Paris: They think I am a coward. Me: You kind of are. But more than that, you are an idiot who did not take your sword when you had the chance and instead waited until after your brother killed Menelaus.
Helen: You challenged a great warrior. Me: No, he challenged Menelaus, who decided to villain monologue instead of killing him when he had the chance, and also spent like a minute and a half hitting a shield with his sword over and over and over.
Helen: Menelaus was a brave man. Me: Was he? Mostly he just yelled a lot and then died. And was EVIL.
Agamemnon: I AM MAD. AND DRUNK. Odysseus: We should just go home. Agamemnon: NO! Nestor: If we leave, the…Hittites will invade us (????).
Nestor and Odyseus: We need Achilles. Agamemnon: No we don't. (suddenly very whiny) And he won't listen to me!
Odysseus: But he will listen to me! Because I am not a drunk idiot!
Agamemnon: Okay, fine, give him his slave woman back. Also, I gave her to the men before this conversation—so now when he learns about that he will be even more mad and sulk forever, and it does not matter that I changed my mind! (What an idiot!) Time to drink some more!
Also Apollo should absolutely have sent a dozen plagues by now because Agamemnon not only captured his priestess but also basically sent her to be raped en masse.
Thankfully Achilles shows up to save her before anything happens–but man, now he will never ever come out of his tent.
Briseis: I am not a fan of soldiers.
Achilles: Trojan soldiers died to protect you.
Me: READ THE ROOM!!!!!
Achilles: Why did you choose to love a deity? The romance will be rather one-sided. Hey, Achilles…the Greek gods take lovers all the time. The romance may not be as one-sided as you think.
Achilles: The gods envy us. Me: No, they do not.
Achilles, are you from the Enlightenment like Paris from the 1956 movie?
Also this is a weird weird conversation to have with this traumatized woman.
Briseis almost kills Achilles. Achilles: obviously we should have sex now. Me: I hate you.
EWWWWWWWWWWWW why did that have to happen?
Odysseus: I am pretending Agamemnon is sorry. Achilles: I am not an idiot and I am going home. Also, why do you work for him?
Me: Why DOES he work for him? The Oath of Tyndareus does not exist in this movie.
Achilles: Of all the kings of Greece I respect you the most. Me: You respect Odysseus more than your dad?
Trojan War Council: We should attack them! Hector: Or we could use our walls properly and win via attrition. I am the smartest person in this movie.
Priest: Apollo cursed the enemy and they are losing. Me: About time Apollo cursed someone…..
Priam: I will ignore my smart son. ATTACK! Cue Hector's oh crap face.
Creepy romance is still creepy.
FIRE ARROWS lead to giant balls of fire rolling at the ships and now everything is on fire. Like I know there were balls of hay that they set on fire but that should not mean fire-bomb explosions.
Agamemnon is still using the brilliant strategy of yelling really loudly.
And here comes Patroclus-pretending-to-be-Achilles and much general chaos.
Aaand Patroclus dies in under a minute vs Hector. Hector looks surprised.
Why did everyone just decide to stop fighting?
Odysseus: Well, that was very grim and Achilles will rampage.
Agamemnon continues to be totally useless.
Achilles is so upset that he nearly kills the unfortunate messenger. And Briseis. Poor Briseis.
Hector to Andromache: I am going to die because of an accidental kill, and then horrible stuff will happen to Troy. Here is how you escape.
Agamemnon: Man I am so glad Patroclus died. Now I can conquer stuff! I AM EVIL!
AWWWWWW baby….
I feel like the movie needed to have a few more scenes of Patroclus and Achilles interacting because currently his reaction feels overplayed relative to what we saw.
Oh, hey, they remembered Paris is an archer!
You know how the 1956 movie was fixated on Athena to the near-exclusion of all other gods ? This one is fixated on Apollo.
Parallel armor sequence go!
Briseis totally fails to convince Achilles not to kill Hector. Poor Briseis. Why did they try to make this a romance?
Achilles standing alone down there looks a little silly.
While Achilles shouts for Hector repeatedly, Hector does sad family good-byes. So Achilles yells for a long time.
No, seriously, dad, brother, old unnamed commander, Andromache, Astyanax–he talks to EVERYONE, and meanwhile Achilles is still screaming.
Awww baby.
Oh and Helen too because why not?
That no pacts between lions and men is a fairly direct Iliad quote. Neat.
Now we will both throw off our helmets for no reason!
Achilles: How dare you kill someone in war under the belief it was me! I will desecrate your corpse!
This looks AWESOME! And hey, these two know what shields are for!
No chase around the city I guess. But at least it was a cool battle.
Bye, Hector. You died as you lived—actually having a brain.
And now, corpse desecration. Oh joy…..
Achilles: Yeah, taking a dead body to my tent will totally not completely ruin whatever Briseis romance situation I had going on.
Poor poor Briseis…..
Oh, now I see why they made Briseis and Hector cousins. It was so they could have Briseis and Achilles both lose cousins!
Also no funeral games for Patroclus.
Hi Priam. How did you find this place without Hermes?
Achilles: How did you get in here? Priam: I know my own country. Me: But how did you slip past the thousands of soldiers?
Priam is, in fact, the bravest man in this movie.
Wait. Peleus is dead? And Priam knew him??????
Oh, now we mention the games. But not for Patroclus?
Achilles also lets Briseis leave, which is nice and not what happens in the Iliad. But I am relieved it happened because frankly he has destroyed her life sufficiently at this point.
Achilles: None of us will attack Troy for 12 days. Me: We probably have 30 minutes until Agamemnon tries to do exactly that to be EVIL.
Achilles to Priam: You are so much better than Agamemnon. Me: No notes.
Ha ha ha we IMMEDIATELY cut to Agamemnon being mad about the funeral truce.
Agamemnon: Peace is lame. We should ATTACK and Achilles is a traitor!
Nestor: They still have walls.
Agamemnon: Hey, Zeus, I will smash their walls to the ground (me: how???). And I will kill 40,000 of my own men to do it if I have to !
Odysseus and Nestor are both making what is he doing faces.
Odysseus sees a man carve a horse and is all like, hey, a not-stupid idea! Cue the horse.
Achilles…sends the Myrmidons home????
Also, incidentally if we have reached the horse Achilles should be dead and his tiny war crimes son should be here.
And also because Agamemnon is still super evil this is now the second movie in a row where I wish that they would just have the Trojans win.
Wait if they built the horse out of their boats how will they make it home?
Paris is the one who thinks this is a trap this time around—and wait I think he should be dead too!
Oh wait never mind they actually had a bunch more boats.
Achilles is here to rescue Briseis, isn't he.
Also I really hope they did not take Agamemnon in the horse because he would be the worst stealth operative.
Here come the war crimes…and screaming extras. I have no idea how Achilles thinks his plan will work.
WALL CLIMB!
Achilles, maybe put your sword away. Everyone is already in a panic and you adding to that will not make your job easier.
Poor Priam.
How did that live horse end up in the palace?
Agamemnon: LET TROY BURN! I AM EEEEEVIL!!!!!!
Seriously you can stop yelling. Everyone is doing what you want and no one can hear you anyhow.
Andromache, the baby, Paris, Helen, and others are escaping via the route Hector set up earlier.
Oh, hi, Aeneas.
Paris actually refuses to leave the city and passes the Troy leadership torch to Aeneas.
Also I am SO happy Andromache and the baby make it out this time.
So I suppose baby Asytanax, Andromache, and Helen found Rome with Aeneas in this version (since Menelaus is dead and stuff)?
And there is the old Trojan commander I mentioned. Who is he? Whoever he is, he is awesome.
And Odysseus just killed him.
Idiots continue to sack temples. Seriously I think they are attacking all 12 Olympians via statues. (I definitely saw Artemis and Demeter, and we know Apollo and Zeus are there.) They should be super super cursed at this point but nope!
And to remind you that Agamemnon is EVIL he kills Priam.
Briseis finds an Apollo statue and is about to pray when Agamemnon shows up for MORE EVIL. Meanwhile Achilles is still running around with a sword. Oh and now Agamemnon is dead too –Briseis stabbed him—-so I suppose the Orestia will not happen.
Achilles then swoops in for the sort-of save–only for Paris to misunderstand the situation and shoot him in the heel. And then four more times in the chest.
Achilles…maybe avoid yanking the arrows out?
This romance still does not work.
So Briseis survives (yay!) and so does…Paris????
So all the Greek leaders except Nestor and Odysseus are dead. That…is a political mess. Menelaus, Achilles, Ajax, and Agamemnon are all dead, and Diomedes does not exist.
Time for Helen of Troy (1956)! I have no idea what to expect. The overture is quite long and I am skipping it. Paris is the leading man, which is... a choice. I don't like Paris so we shall see how this goes. I can't immediately identify any of the names in the credits, but my knowledge of actors is shaky and my knowledge of 1950s actors is more shaky, unless they're someone like Orson Wells or Charleston Heston.
The map is...questionable. I don't think Greece is that big. Or angled that far to the right.
Also, Troy is rich because of trade and it's heavily implied the Greeks want that shiny shiny loot.
So, the Greeks did destroy Troy once before. It was mostly Heracles as one-man wrecking crew. And Sparta had nothing to do with it. Also Troy's famous walls were built before Heracles showed up (and I guess survived him), since Hesione was rescued by Heracles after her dad Laomedon was an idiot and stiffed Poseidon and Apollo on their bill.
So it's not like the series of events was attack, wall, attack two. It was wall, attack, attack two.
Oh, hi, Aeneas.
The debate: Paris wants to sail and do trade stuff. Polydorus thinks that's stupid and also wants to destroy Sparta for the previous war that didn't really happen the way this movie implies but whatever.
D'aawwww Hector and Andromache are adorable and they've had like 2 lines of dialogue. Priam and Hecuba are well-cast too. But everyone is British for some reason.
Just focus on Hector and Andromache and make them the leads! Or Priam and Hecuba, for that matter! That way you don't have to dance around the maybe-consensual/maybe-abduction/maybe-she's-in-Egypt-and-Helen-is-fake nonsense as much.
Cassandra: says this voyage is a bad idea. Is immediately ignored as usual (she's not onscreen yet; just reported).
Man that screaming-face Athena statue is...something. She seriously looks more like what I'd expect from Enyo. It's horrifying. Weirdly the Aphrodite statue looks normal. So this is either a not-so-subtle point about love goddess good war goddess bad, or someone really wanted to show their horror Athena off.
Old priest guy: Prince Paris is obsessed with Aphrodite. That's worrying. Paris: I'm not sure I worship anything. Admiration is the better word, for the beauty of a marble image. Who are you and what have you done with the setting?
It's like: hello. I wandered in from the wrong century with my perfect hair.
Paris: Haha Athena can't hurt me! Paris, you idiot. Yes she can.
Also I guess the whole beauty contest didn't happen in this version because otherwise he would presumably be a lot less "pretty statues" and agnosticism and a whole lot more terrified. Or alternatively confident because Aphrodite promised him a hot chick.
Seriously, in what universe does any Bronze Age person go "haha, a goddess can't hurt me" (assuming we're not talking Ancient Israel, where the premise is that there is only one God)?
I can accept Paris being stupid. I cannot accept Paris wandering in from the WRONG CENTURY. This is like those movies that critique ancient sexism by having characters talk about it instead of just showing it.
What? "A world of fables?" ARE YOU FROM 1930?
Like, I can believe there were some ancient people who didn't really strongly believe in gods. But not that they would say so publicly in front of the whole court.
Everyone else is acting properly. Paris is acting like he lives in another time period or possibly another universe.
Even hubristic idiots in Greek myth don't do this sort of thing.
Cassandra looks like 14 and oh boy I hope she ages up or later events will be EVEN MORE disturbing.
I really want to know what Paris thinks his sister...does. Like seriously, if he doesn't believe in the gods, but the gods are presumably real, how is he explaining it? And hey, did the Apollo....eewwwwww never mind I don't want to think about those implications given the age of the actress.
I hate this Paris so much. And it's not because of the reasons I hate myth Paris. It's because he's in the wrong millenium.
They put all this work into costumes and scenery and ships, and none into Paris remembering what century he's in.
Admittedly if any gods actually show up I will eat my hat.
MYCEANEAN SPARTA IS NOT CLASSIC SPARTA.
Oh I guess Aeneas is on the ship with Paris because...sure.
Aeneas: Women are hot. Paris: Not for me. I appreciate not wanting the lead man to be a womanizing creep (slave women everywhere. You have to ignore it for someone; just pick your poison). But having him not interested in women at all is dumb.
OMINOUS CLOUDS BECAUSE THE GODS ARE....PRIMITIVE OR SOMETHING I GUESS SO NO SCREENTIME FOR THEM.
Wow those 50s lightning effects are bad.
Also this GIANT STORM should maybe be a sign. But Paris doesn't believe in the Bronze Age worldview so that's out.
Paris climbs the rigging in a storm, nearly dies, then tragically survives to continue misreading what century he's in. Was Paris raised in the 1930s before he was reintegrated into the royal family or what?
Paris ends up shipwrecked (alone) and washes up shirtless, only to be found by a greyhound and Helen in her 1950s bathing suit chiton thing.
All the Trojan women looked reasonably appropriate (Troy is weird and hard to parse because their culture is basically nigh-identical to the Greek one in the poems, but they looked ancient Mediterranean). Helen...does not.
Also: why no entourage? Royalty in this period take them everywhere (see Nausicaa in the Odyssey).
Like, is it possible for a queen to somehow stumble on someone alone? Yes, but not this way.
Okay, she does have two people with her. They are weirded out by this shirtless man on the beach, like proper Bronze Age people should be. They don't really look like attendants though.
Also he decides Aphrodite is real and Helen is her and...oh gosh Aphrodite will kill him. Or would, but she doesn't exist meaningfully.
The attendants are also unimpressed that he's Trojan, which given the added-in wars, makes sense. Why do they inhabit the Bronze Age world but not the leads?
Like, my issue is not divergence from cultural norms. It's the lack of recognition on the part of the leads regarding the dangers of diverging from said norms.
So Helen and the other two hide Paris from the soldiers (this I don't totally hate; people in the past were not just 100% down to be awful and never question the rules all the time). I guess the lady is her nurse. And she came to visit her. Alone. The visit is fine. The alone part, in a bathing suit, is not.
The soldiers try to take Helen back because of the Trojan ship that was sighted. Helen says that her nurse (and the old man who is unidentified) will protect her. Somehow this convinces the soldiers (she is the queen...but still) and they leave.
The nurse's daughter (I'm guessing) shows up to help save Paris.
Helen really should have pulled this trio aside, said "okay, you three make sure Handsome Man doesn't kick the bucket, and I'll go with the soldiers", then come back later.
Alternatively, since this seems like an obvious adaptational change since we've already decided the gods basically don't exist and so accuracy doesn't matter: have Helen...be the daughter of this couple and have the girl be her sister. She's not royalty, but Menelaus wants to marry her because she's so beautiful that she overrides the typical norms. (He's already going to be evil anyway, might as well run with it.) Paris also wants to marry her because of the love plot. Boom. There. Realism problems significantly diminished.
Helen is hanging out at her nurse's place still. At least she's not wearing that awful bathing suit chiton. Like the hair is dubious and the dress still seems off but the length is right and it isn't pale pink.
Realistic servants are realistically concerned about risks: We can't keep him here. He might be dangerous passively (because of the tensions between Sparta and Troy) or actively (a warrior). Helen has no cultural sense and ignores this.
Everyone in this movie knows what century they're in except the leads (and those two soldiers to some extent).
Stop. Calling her. Aphrodite. Do you want everyone to get cursed?
Helen decides to lie and pretend to be a slave (like her three helpers who have brains). Why? Who knows.
Paris is kinda stupid for the opposite reason: "I'm Prince Paris of Troy! I have no way of knowing if you will sell me out!"
This is going to be the most disastrous peace treaty mission ever, Paris.
Paris: My crew are so superstitious, believing the gods throw lightning and stuff. YOU LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE THEY DO!!!
Helen (seeming to remember reality): RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
Paris: But the mission! Dude, if someone who lives here says run, then RUN!
I feel so bad for these three random slaves who will absolutely get killed over this. Or would, if this movie knew the world as well as they do.
Helen: YOU WILL DIE.
Paris: I have to go to the palace!
Helen: SERIOUSLY YOU WILL DIE. Maybe...listen? If she's that afraid of the king, LEAVE!
Helen (and the servants with brains) leave Paris alone in the hut. True, the 13-year-old-ish slave girl is impressed by Paris, but she's a kid, and the adults are like "good riddance" when the four of them leave him.
Cut to Helen (and the 14-year-old girl) in actual veils outside. I am shocked. Then the movie forgets its time period again. Helen asks the girl to leave her alone outside with Paris. I can buy the girl leaving (she can't tell the queen no safely), but where is everyone else?
If you wanted to send him supplies, send the old man!
Helen: RUN. DO NOT GO TO THE PALACE. Greece is considering a war against Troy (also it should be Achaea but whatever).
Paris: MISSION!
Paris: You're hot. I'll buy you from the queen (he still thinks she's a slave because of the pointless lie from earlier). I know he's planning to free her and then marry her (because he does not operate on Bronze Age sex logic, which is anachronistic but an anachronism I'll accept because the alternative makes my skin crawl), but....dude, do you NOT understand how dangerous this situation is?
As much of a history nerd as I am, I can fully get behind "we would like our protagonist to not be a rapist". What I cannot get behind is "neither protagonist cares about how wildly socially inappropriate it is for them to be meeting alone like this". Like, I will even allow the theoretical Cinderella story of prince-marries-servant girl. I like those. But ACKNOWLEDGE CONSEQUENCES DARNIT.
Helen understands geopolitics but not that she should not be alone outside. Paris understands nothing and thinks he's in 1950.
Odysseus is Ulysses for reasons. Menelaus wants gold, because of course, and the Greeks are already planning war because moral ambiguity does not exist. Like, the Greeks already do a war crime speed run at the end of the war. You don't need to make them more hateable now.
Nestor, Ajax (probably the Greater), Diomedes, and Agamemnon are all present and accounted for (complete with proper titles). Ulysses/Odysseus shows up and they all do a meet-and-great. So we can get that right, but not basic social logic. Got it.
Odysseus: Greetings, fellow pirates! (Big laugh).
Agamemnon: No this war is totally righteous because defensive aggression!
Menelaus: Exactly! Troy has one prince who wants to fight, therefore war!
Agamemnon: Where's Achilles?
Odysseus: He hates you, lol, and he hid himself away.
Odysseus also looks like he wandered out of a different social class than everyone else. Or just doesn't care about looking fancy. Which would make sense actually.
Odysseus also had to be forced to be here in this film, as per the myths. No wonder he's so annoyed---there isn't even an oath pretext yet (Helen has not been kidnapped/left yet). So somebody just threatened his baby (that’s why he goes to Troy) to make him go loot.
Anyway, Odysseus pulled in Achilles from his hiding spot of pretending to be a girl, and he shows up dramatically with trumpets. He has a beard and looks older than a teenager, so I don't know how he pulled off the fake girl bit (in the myths he's like 15-17ish). Also he wants to make it clear that he hates Menelaus and also Agamemnon. Oh, and Patroclus is here too. Achilles seems to think he will lead the war, which....isn't really what Achilles cares about. He cares about EPIC GLORY FOREVER.
Ajax is introduced as a sort of wannabe Achilles (and also a jerk), which seems very unfair. Poor Ajax the Greater.
Agamemnon: We must remain allied.
Odysseus: Hahaha we all hate each other.
Some guy (I think Nestor): We don't have an actual reason to go to war with Troy.
Then the soldiers from earlier finally hand over the Trojan flag that washed up with Paris over to Menelaus (how long were they sitting on that?) and Menelaus is like "obviously the only explanation is that they want to DESTROY US."
Paris then reveals himself like an absolute idiot. How did he get in here?
Menelaus: How'd you know we were meeting here?
Paris: Long story. Glad to see you all at once! I bring peace!
For some reason the Greeks immediately believe that he is who he says he is despite lack of evidence, and also assume he's not hostile, except Agamemnon, who's like "GOLD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN PEACE."
I don’t like Agamemnon. And I still think this movie makes him too evil.
Menelaus: Well, if he's Paris, he should be good with boxing like we know Paris is. Let's test that. Wow. Actual competence.
Achilles refuses to spar with him because "Achilles did not make his reputation fighting children". Why is Achilles talking about himself in the third person? Also, you are younger than Paris, Achilles (or rather, you should be) . Also also, what reputation? Your entire reputation is the Trojan War and that hasn't happened yet.
Nestor to Paris: These guys are psychopaths, we can skip the boxing-to-prove identity.
Ajax: NOPE BOXING!
Then Ajax sucker-punches Paris because WOW poor Ajax…
It's like, I don't like most of the Greeks very much on a moral level. But this movie sort of makes me feel bad for them because everyone but Nestor and Odysseus is a cartoon villain.
Anyway, while the boxing match continues and Ajax looks like a middle-school bully, everyone else cheers loudly and Helen turns back up, finally looking era-appropriate. Then she blurts out Paris' name like an idiot right next to Menelaus. Nice work.
Paris wins, to the delight of Nestor and the surprise of Agamemnon. Menelaus now believes Paris is indeed Paris and...for some reason is friendly now in spite of the earlier insane paranoia.
Yay Bronze Age cultural attitudes: Trojans like beauty. Get our guest a hot slave.
Also apparently Menelaus didn't hear Helen react to Paris earlier because he introduces them without apparent suspicion.
Helen decides to act on her good luck by pretending to be extremely unimpressed with Paris. This actually makes sense.
The gorgon head on the door (and on the nightmare statue of Athena earlier) is a nice touch. So the film gets gorgon head doors right, but not social context.
Helen has a deaf/mute servant, which is actually reasonably plausible and a nice acknowledgement of disability in the ancient world. And Menelaus makes sense again...he seems suspicious of Helen and Paris so I guess he was just acting before.
Menelaus: IN CASE YOU WEREN'T SURE I WAS EVIL, I MIGHT TAKE A DIPLOMAT PRINCE HOSTAGE OR DISFIGURE HIM TO GIVE TROY CAUSUS BELLI AGAINST ME!
It's like, I know you want to go to war with Troy because money in this movie. But there is a difference between trying to start a war and giving Troy a reason to attack you.
Also Menelaus: I can do whatever I want because I'm king. (To be fair, this is depressingly realistic. But having him state it that bluntly is a bit much.)
And now he's going to abuse Helen because HE IS THE BAD GUY.
Helen sends her handmaid to deliver a message to Paris under the pretext of being the slave girl sent to Paris by Menelaus (with the creepy offer from earlier). It works splendidly. Kid has spunk. I like her.
The girl: Remember how everyone told you to run earlier? Well, your host is plotting your murder. So RUN NOW PLEASE.
Paris finally realizes what's happening. Also: Menelaus apparently wants to get cursed by the gods for violating xenia.
It also flips the xenia situation on its head from the myths.
The deaf/mute slave helps with the escape attempt by murdering the two guards on duty. Then Paris and the girl escape by leaping out the window. Good job to our supporting cast, who are infinitely better than the leads.
Like seriously I want the movie to be about the nurse, the deaf/mute guy, the old man, and the girl. They can go visit Troy and the other characters who aren't cartoon villains or cultural immigrants from 1950.
And we wouldn't have to deal with cartoon villain Menelaus, Agamemnon but slightly worse, Achilles who apparently read his own PR, and Ajax the middle school bully anymore.
Anyway, the trio successfully make it to the cottage from before and the old man (who is a fisherman) and the Nurse misdirect the chasing soldiers and also give them wine as a distraction because the slaves are amazing and the movie should be about them.
Paris is an idiot and more concerned with his girlfriend than escaping alive. But he does at least finally leave when the fishermen goes "leave now or die". Helen is also the one making this rescue possible financially (she gets the ship). So basically everyone is more competent than Paris and he should have listened to the nine million other warnings about the evil king.
Helen somehow manages to leave the castle in spite of her paranoid psychopath husband and leaves for Troy with Paris. She also gives the girl her freedom which sounds nice but might also be a death sentence because what if she gets caught? Take her to Troy! Actually, don't, because Troy is doomed...but you know what I mean.
Okay, slight correction: Helen initially was not planning to leave. She just wanted to say good-bye I guess which makes the "how/why did she risk getting out" question even more baffling.
Also, good news: Paris is no longer an anachronistic agnostic. He suggests she goes to Troy with him. They dither so long the soldiers show up and Paris has to grab Helen and jump off a cliff into the sea with her.
Meanwhile, it's red-lights orgy time with Menelaus and friends. One of the servants interrupts and tells Menelaus his wife is gone and so is his chance to be cursed for violating xenia.
Menelaus: TIME FOR WAR.
Odysseus: Or we could wait and do smart war.
Agamemnon: We will unite for HONOR.
Odysseus (sarcastically): Yes, the future will call it that. Odysseus has great deadpan snark.
Agamemnon "nobly" requests the duty of leading the army, which ticks off Achilles.
Odysseus gets another great line: I will follow you (sotto voce) and tell you what to do as usual.
Odysseus: I'll make Achilles agree to this setup by reminding him Troy has GOLD. (Why is everyone so gold-obsessed in this movie? Yes, the Greeks liked plunder but it wasn't the primary motivation.)
Paris was NOT this nice in the myths.
Helen: Maybe we should not go to Troy.
Paris: But I have duties and stuff.
Me: But you're awful at them; her plan is better. Your 1930s agnosticism nearly got you killed, and then your attempts at diplomacy nearly got you killed again.
Then suddenly Paris actually accepts reality only for Helen to overrule him and WHY IS EVERYONE SO STUPID? Did Athena curse them with stupid?
Helen explains who she is after Cassandra correctly and dramatically does the doom prophecy. Cue the mass "oh, crap" that is now a double mass "oh, crap" because these Greeks are already evil.
Also the Trojans have a valid reason for keeping Helen here, because she saved Paris from being murdered or worse and Menelaus will 100% kill her because this Menelaus is the worst. Everyone is still doomed, there's just 0 moral ambiguity.
Priam is however understandably ticked at Paris for getting himself into this stupid situation (it wouldn't have happened if he'd just left earlier like Helen told him to do fifty times).
Andromache: Every Trojan woman with a son or husband will curse you (Paris). A bit harsh, but again: the reason Helen is in danger is because he refused to leave when she and all the smart servants told him to.
Polydorus is happy because he wanted war anyway.
Paris: Athena has much power. Look, I’m all for noting that Athena can be ruthless. But the way you’re talking about her makes it sound like you think she’s Enyo or Ares or something.
Paris decides to take Helen to Pelagos, which seems like a good call since Menelaus is evil here and will kill her and they shouldn’t stay in Troy.
The ordinary Trojan citizens form a mob and are unsurprisingly kind of annoyed with Paris. Aeneas basically tells them all to go home because the war is basically inevitable. This seems like it shouldn’t work but it does.
Helen idiotically refuses to leave if Paris won’t go with her, which he won’t do for equally stupid honor-related reasons. LEAVE BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE DIES!
Montage of war preparations go!
I almost wonder if the relative recency of WWII plays into why the Greeks are such mustache-twirling villains, since they are the invaders and the WWII invaders were awful.
Part of the montage are the priestesses of Athena (including Cassandra) praying to that freaky freaky statue.
Paris has a leopard-skin outfit to do archery for reasons. He’s a great shot, as per the myths.
Cue the thousand ships and realistic civilian panic.
Achilles’ beard makes him look like this one cartoon villain but I can’t quite place it.
Odysseus is enjoying himself. Menelaus looks like he’s got a hangover.
Obligatory Faust reference is obligatory.
Nice painted backdrop of the ships there.
There are so many extras in this movie.
LOOK AT ALL OUR HISTORICAL ARMOR!
Hector: We have a wall for a reason. Use it.
Also why are they all called Spartans? They’re not all Spartans. This is not (all) Sparta.
The helmets make it a little hard to tell who’s who.
Menelaus and Achilles: We will totally win immediately. ATTACK!
Odysseus is not impressed. Because he has a brain. He suggests setting up camp, which they do.
This movie really loves extras.
It also really loves that nightmare Athena statue and seriously do they think she’s Ares?
HUGE ARMY MARCHING. The armor and shields are neat.
Can you imagine being one of those extras and having to reshoot that marching scene multiple times just so you could be on screen for 5 seconds? Especially since the armor had to be hot.
Cue the mass death.
Nice trebuchets. Those won’t exist for another thousand years or so.
The Greeks just showed up. Should they be trying to climb the walls already?
And somehow they’re already inside part of the walls. That was fast.
Oh and Hector and Achilles are already fighting (after Achilles stabs Polydorus I think?)
Some Greek guy: We’re outflanked! Fall back! I have no idea if that’s an accurate assessment; I just saw a lot of guys with swords stabbing each other.
FLAMING ARROWS!
Also recycled footage of spear throwing from the walls of Troy I think?
Ow. Arrow through the neck.
The Greek towers they used to scale the wall are now on fire.
RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
Okay it was Polydoros who got stabbed. And he’s dead. Because of course the guy who wanted war dies in battle 1.
Zeus doesn’t judge the dead, Priam. You should know this.
I really think the writers think Athena is Enyo. “Let not Athena’s hatred feed on my defenseless son”?
The Greeks do war crimes in the villages around Troy. This is accurate, depressingly.
Cue the Agamemnon vs Achilles fight. Instead of the Apollo-plagues-two-slave-girls situation, they just drunkenly squabble over one girl. Achilles tries to kill Agamemnon, as per the poem, but just sort of fails to catch him since the gods can’t do anything onscreen. Odysseus tries to keep the fight from happening and inevitably fails.
Now Achilles AND Agamemnon look awful! Hurrah!
Also no prayers to Thetis because again no onscreen deities.
Also apparently Achilles sulks in his tent for multiple years if we take what’s being shown at face value.
And we’re back to the romance plot I forgot about when this became a war movie.
Paris tempts face: nothing will happen to you!
STOP CALLING HER A GODDESS YOU WILL DIE.
The angry mobs still hate Helen for obvious reasons and want to throw her and Paris to the Greeks (who are not all Spartans, and technically should be Achaeans).
Hecuba is still terrific.
The gods are fighting offscreen I guess. Lame.
Helen offers to go back to Menelaus to protect Troy.
Cue the peace treaty. The Trojans offer to give Helen back. Odysseus shuts Menelaus up to keep him from arguing about this while the Trojans are there.
Menelaus is mad because he wants GOLD!
Patroclus is here to inform us that Achilles can sulk harder than anyone in history.
And Agamemnon plans to violate the treaty of peace the second they get Helen back because of course.
Apparently Helen left for the Greeks without telling Paris.
“She’s going to Menelaus?” No, you idiot. To Odysseus. Of course to Menelaus!
Paris runs off to stop her like an idiot.
Hector escorts Helen to the Greeks.
The Greeks then IMMEDIATELY renege on the deal and go “MONEY”.
Paris thankfully does not intervene until after the Greeks attack Hector and company, so he doesn’t idiotically ruin the truce himself.
Then Hector decides to take Helen back (along with Paris obviously). I guess since the Greeks are basically PURE EVIL he might as well.
EPIC CHARIOT CHASES GO!
Paris and I think Patroclus throw spears at each other. Both hit, but Paris isn’t seriously wounded.
Wait what do you mean Paris kills Patroclus? Then why does Achilles want to kill Hector?
Achilles then returns to the war as per the Iliad. He looks much worse here because he’s been sulking for apparently years over a drunken squabble.
Priam, while I appreciate your moral stance, you live in the Bronze Age and there is no difference between justice and plunder for most people.
The Greeks are awful in this movie though. Like, so much worse than in the Iliad (and they are Bronze Age warriors there—awful is the baseline). Can they please lose? I don’t care if it changes the plot; you’ve already changed everything else!
It’s weird for a priestess of Athena to say that Athena bears guilt for something.
Also how have none of the characters aged in ten years?
In this version Hector is accepting Achilles’ challenge to fight in Paris’ place. Sure why not.
And here come Andromache and Astyanax. Awwww and owww.
Hector actually asked for his son to be more honored as a warrior than himself in the Iliad; not that he would find peace. We are still in the Bronze Age after all.
Unlike in Homer, people actually fight in their chariots. Including Hector and Achilles for this showdown.
I guess this means Achilles will not chase Hector around Troy.
Odysseus: If Achilles dies, we’ll retire to consider a certain plan of mine. SMUG GRIN. Yes, we all know about the Trojan Horse. It was very clever.
Achilles’ chariot breaks, so then they fight on foot.
And…there goes Hector to stabby overkill.
TIME FOR CORPSE DESECRATION!
Then Paris kills Achilles immediately. Bye Achilles.
I guess no Penthesilea or Memnon then. Boo.
Odysseus: So dies Greek courage. But not Greek cunning. Yes. You’re very meta. Thanks.
The Greeks: Well Achilles died via arrow to heel plus slapstick falling out of chariot. We’re out of ideas.
Odysseus: I’m not! And that’s what’s great about me!
Aww Penelope reference.
And yep Trojan Horse.
Athena, Aphrodite, and Zeus are not the only gods who exist, movie.
Oh, you poor innocent naive people. You’re all going to die to Greeks who are even MORE evil than they’re actually supposed to be.
Please can the Trojan Horse not work? You’ve made the Greeks so awful I want them to lose. Like, more than usual.
Helen steals the “beware the Greeks bearing gifts” line from Sir-Not-Appearing-in-This-Movie Lacoon.
Cassandra: THIS IS BAD.
Paris (amazingly!): This is bad.
Priam: Nah, let’s bring it in.
Aaand…suddenly Paris and Helen are acting like their fears from two seconds ago were dumb.
STOP TAUNTING ATHENA AND CALLING HELEN APHRODITE!
Misguided tragic celebration time.
It is kind of overstimulating though.
And here come the war crimes.
Props to the one guy on duty who did his level best to sound the alarm before getting killed.
War crimes. Everywhere.
Aeneas runs with Andromache and Astyanax—please escape–and Paris who isn’t dead somehow leaves with Helen.
Odysseus there is a time and place for your smug grin and the mass war crimes is not that time and place.
Priam and Hecuba are amazingly dignified.
And there goes…someone…taking off with poor Cassandra who still looks 14. (Agamemnon maybe? Ajax the Lesser is thankfully not here.)
Paris and Helen get separated by the crowd. Then they find each other and hey can we rescue the 14-year-old?
Then Menelaus and Paris have a duel they didn’t have.
If you like screaming and panicked running this would be a great movie for you to be an extra in.
Menelaus’ sword looks SUUUPER fake up close, which is weird given the level of detail elsewhere.
And now Paris is dead. I actually feel moderately sad because this Menelaus is AWFUL.
It’s kind of weird that Menelaus just lets this dying love scene play out.
Also the screaming women in the background kill the mood.
Man what a downer ending. If you’re going to change the plot THAT much you could have at least given me a happier conclusion.
Square #1: The gods are either absent or significantly downplayed. (This is more prominent in adaptations of the Iliad; the Odyssey seems to have more leeway to include gods.)
Square #2: A character inexplicably speaks and behaves like an Enlightenment skeptic regarding the existence of the gods.
Square #3: Diomedes does not exist. (This seems to be related to the deletion of the gods, since his most famous scene involves him stabbing Ares and Aphrodite, but it's not like that's all he does.)
Square #4: Ajax the Lesser, Idomeneus, Ascalaphus, Tlepolemos, Menestheus, Nestor's sons, Thersites, and any other secondary kings neither exist nor are mentioned.
Square #5: Aside from "Aeneas is Rome", Hector and Paris are the only named Trojan soldiers.
Square #6: Cassandra is the only one of Priam's daughters to exist. None of Priam’s other children besides Hector and Paris will appear.
Square #7: Neoptolemus doesn't exist. Neither does Philoctetes.
Square #8: Penthesilea and Memnon don't exist in spite of being awesome.
Square #9: If Nestor appears, his role will be limited to a couple of lines of advice, and he will inevitably be ignored by everyone, especially Agamemnon.
Square #10: The Oath of Tyndareus will be quietly removed, and no one will explain why Odysseus is now in the war. Sometimes he gets forced into the war via the exposure of his madness anyway, and he should thus hate everyone; sometimes he's just there for no clear reason at all.
Square #11: Paris will be portrayed sympathetically, even though the most sympathetic part about his backstory (being raised as a shepherd and then finding out "surprise, you're actually important") is often cut.
Square #12: Patroclus is younger than Achilles, when he's supposed to be older.
Square #13: Alternatively, he doesn't exist and so Achilles kills Hector and desecrates his corpse for no real reason.
Square #14: Achilles is too old.
Square #15: Achilles acts like he's read his own PR and is super super famous before the war starts.
Square #16: Achilles is basically just a petulant psychopath. Also he acts less mature than his Iliadic counterpart despite being played by a man in his forties.
Square #17: Ajax the Greater is either a wannabe Achilles, a viking, or barely in the film.
Square #18: Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN. He wants land and gold, or the female lead. Even if it's Helen.
Square #19: Agamemnon's "leadership" is just him shouting and threatening everybody else. Frequently he's not even a particularly impressive warrior. (Troy, I am looking at you.)
Square #20: Menelaus is much older than Helen, and also probably abusive.
Square #21: Alternatively, he's entirely a puppet for his brother.
Square #22: Mycenaean Sparta is treated like it's classical Sparta. It helps make Menelaus seem more evil. (But weirdly does not translate to "so he's an epic warrior"). Also, it will sometimes be implied that he is the Spartan king by birth and that Helen was sent to Sparta to marry him, which makes little sense.
Square #23: The Greeks are apparently incapable of coming up with a plan that does not involve charging straight at the Trojan archers and dying en masse until Odysseus hits on the horse at the end of the movie.
Square #24: Odysseus is apparently the only smart person in the entire Greek army. Sometimes to the point where he seems to know the plot, like in Helen of Troy 1956 where he reacts to Achilles' death with "So ends Greek courage. But not Greek cunning.'
Square #25: A character is killed at the wrong time or by the wrong person (e.g., Paris kills Patroclus in the 1956 Helen of Troy; Hector kills both Menelaus and Ajax in Troy (2004)).
Square #26: Hector, who is already the most sympathetic man in the story, basically becomes perfect.
Square #27: Priam also becomes perfect.
Square #28: Agamemnon and Achilles's quarrel is basically a drunken bar fight. Or doesn't happen at all.
Square #29: Odysseus spends the entire movie as the designated babysitter of the Greek army. Because Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN, Ajax is a viking, Achilles is sulking, and Menelaus is a puppet or angry about his wife.
Square #30: Odysseus is inexplicably the only decent person in the Greek army.
Square #31: Odysseus is also the only Greek with a family at home. Menelaus's daughter and Agammenon's kids don't exist, and no one talks about their parents.
Square #32: Alternatively, Iphigenia does exist, but only so we can reiterate that Agamemnon is EVIL CONQUEROR MAN.
Square #33: There will be trebuchets, Roman tactics, and/or Classical hoplite armor in 1200 BC.
Square #34: The Trojans use fire arrows.
Square #35: The women will all have modern hair and makeup, and only vaguely look like they belong anywhere near the BC era.
Square #36: The leading men are bald and/or have improbably short hair. And no one the audience is supposed to find attractive will have a full beard except maybe Odysseus.
Square #37: Helen exists entirely for the Paris romance subplot (the extent to which this becomes the main plot of the movie varies).
Square #38: The movie treats Agamemnon being the Great King as him effectively being the Emperor of Greece. Which is weird since Odysseus and Menelaus are usually still explicitly kings, but are nevertheless treated like Agamemnon’s employees.
Square #39: Achilles is treated like he’s just some guy who’s good at fighting instead of a prince.
Square #40: Agamemnon uses phrases like “defensive aggression” to justify the war with Troy. Alternatively, he decides he’s Alexander the Great a thousand years early.
Square #41:Paris either survives until the fall of Troy or doesn’t die at all.
Square #42: Achilles is either killed by Paris immediately after killing Hector, dies mysteriously offscreen, or dies after participating in the fall of Troy.
Square #43: Agamemnon dies during the fall of Troy somehow because he is the EVIL BAD GUY.
I have this thing where I’ll jokingly be like “oh I hate this character. I don’t like them.” Or “I love to hate them. They’re so well-done. I can’t stand them.”
This usually slowly morphs into “I would actually level the world for this character. I adore them. I kiss the ground they walk on.” This pipeline for me is real. It’s dangerous.
Anyways, alls this to say, I love you Roscoe Dillon. I’m sorry I ever doubted you. You’re actually incredible. Put the top hat on me. Im a member of the Top fanclub now.
Or, American authors vs the Glasgow burr and the Australian accent.
Evan McCulloch debuted in 1989 in Animal Man #8, which was written by the actually-Scottish Grant Morrison. And he talked like this:
Haw! Howzitgaun, pal! Name's McCulloch. But you can call me the Mirror Master. Awright? Well, come on, pal. Don't just sit there like a fart in a trance! Get up and fight!...."Uh"? "Whuh"? That's what I love about America, by the way. The high standard of education. Pure dead brilliant, so it is! And away and put some clothes on, you big dough-ball! I've just not got the heart to shoot a guy that look like a refugee toley-poker from Kelvinide!...Well, bugger this for a game of sojies! If you're not down here in three seconds flat, I'm coming up after you!....Well, you've been a bit of a troublemaker, haven't you? Messing up a military research program, assisting subversive animal rights groups. The people I work for want to teach you a wee lesson. They want you to know they can get you. Disny matter what you're doing or where you are. Your family as well. Distance no object.....That's something I forgot to mention about this place. It can get a wee bit confusing sometimes....What's up, pal? Wee bit too much of the bevvy? Here. Let me give you a hand.....Never mind, pal. Things might get a wee bit spooky when I'm about, but I'll let you in on a secret. It's all done with mirrors!
Heh! What a tosser!..Awright, awright. Keep your knickers on, hen. You're a right wee stoatir, eh?.....You're what you might call a human looking glass now....Serves you right as well, ya mental bastard! Anyway, hope you don't mind me using this family heirloom as a getaway mirror, but it's time I was on my weary way. Just you remember, this was only a warning. I'll leave you to reflect on that for a wee while.
Then, in Animal Man #21, Morrison gave us more of the accent, as well as McCulloch's moral code:
What have you done to your hair?...Aye, well, I suppose that's one way of putting it. What did you use? A combine harvester? Awright, awright. Now it's like what I told you...there's three of these guys, right? Corporate high heegins that didn't like the way their business was being hit by all youse environmentalists and greens and what-have-you. So they set up this wee boys club to help put the wind up people they thought might turn out to be dangerous. That's you we're talking about. A superhero fighting for animals? No way! So then they hires me to frighten you. But you wouldn't take a telling, so they decided to teach you a big lesson. When I said there was no way I was going to kill a woman and her weans, they gave my job to this other guy, right? "Lennox", the "White Owl"...don't know his real name. You listening to me? Eh...the phone might've been me. I tried to get in touch to warn you, like. I mean, I'd have done it sooner but the bastards at British Telecom cut my phone off after I never paid the bill...Aye. Right. Fair enough. Just don't kill them all until I've got back the money they owe me. Well? Come on and we'll do some damage....That's the place there. I managed to plant one of my special mirrors in the men's lavvies...that's the executive washroom to you. You listening? What you up to?...I'm getting worried about you, by the way. I mean, what's the game with that chib you've got in your pocket? Somebody could get a nasty cut off that thing, eh? I don't know....the goodies are worse than the baddies these days....You talk some amount of mince, pal. I'll tell you that for nothing. Planet Earth is calling, awright? Now, you see this here? All these mirrored windows everywhere these days. Pure magic, so it is! They're doing my job for me! You coming, then? I'm for a total rammy!...Howzitgaun, Mr. Brumley?...Naw, you can keep your heart condition. We just want your money! There you go, see? I've even brought your jaisket for you. And what's this? You 'blankety-blank" checkbook, and pen, if I'm not mistaken. And where's Mr. Lennox, by the by?....Aw, you don't say? Much is that you're giving me? On your bike, pal! That's sweetie-money. You can easy afford ten times that amount. And while we're at it, we'll have a million for Greenpeace. Gesture of goodwill, you might say. Aye, you're a saint, Mr. Brumley!....What in the name of...aw naw!... What? Ha! You must be joking!....I don't know. I'm still not sure how that one works. Right. I'm going to have a wee root around. See if there's anything worth nicking....Animal Man? That's me on my weary way now. Animal Man?....Aye. Well, you've made a right dog's dinner with old Lennox, eh?
Morrison also wrote McCulloch in one issue of the Flash (specifically, Flash vol. 2 #133):
Forget it, pal. She's away in a world of her own. Typical lassie, eh? It's what you might call a mirror dimension. Time goes backwards in there. And the further back you get, the faster it goes, know? So...the short story is I'm not sure when you guys started dating, but at the speed she's going, I'd say you've got about fifteen minutes before your classy bird there reverses right out of your life, big man. So think fast...Aye. Can't hear you. Can't see you. Can't feel you. Can't even smell your sweaty yellow boots anymore, Flash. Your wee lady here is in a world of her own. By the way, big man---I didn't save up for the shiny toys and the fancy dress for a lark, y'know. The name's Mirror Master, awright? Mind now? Flash versus Mirror Master. Just like the good ol' days, eh?....Ah, you greetin'-faced toilie! You should know the score by now. We're second-generation super-people. We're supposed to have a bad attitude. That's the keech in your coffee, pal...You try spending time in Hell. Watch this. Fast-breeding, self-reflecting holograms generated by a single code. Press the button and they breed like tims. Excellent, so they are....Eleven minutes? I thought you were the Flash. Eleven minutes is like a fortnight in Rothesay to you....But I'm not even here, pal. See?...Nine minutes. Ding-dong! Avon calling!.....You, pal, are talking to a Scottish creep, and believe me, its a proud family tradition. Check the mirrors. There was something that old-fashioned guy said on the Hogmannay show, what was it again? Something about seeing ourselves as others see us? That's what all youse see now when you look in the mirrors. It's a hypnotic induction code, they call it. All done with subliminal lights on my suit. Scary biscuits, eh?
Occh, shut up. There's loads of good books in Braille. Like Playboy, big man. Ha Ha! Ha Ha! Only joking. Look at this, eh? Sorry, you can't look, can you? Hold on. I'll try and describe it: these wee gizmos do the business, man. They reflect empty space. Aw, its mad physics, know? Look at that, eh? Surrealism! That's like a ten jelly trip to some of these wee guys in the schemes! So where's the super-polis? Cause I'm right out the window with everybody's money in a minute. Ahh...the bank that likes tae say yes. As they say on the telly, Is the manager in? Seven and a half minutes on the clock, Flash. Guy's a total spastic. Bet he's still tryin to figure out how to et out of that rainbow Flash trap. I'm just thinking about him running about like a loony, man. SU-perb. Know something? They're right about money bein the root of evil and all that. Cause I'm telling you, man. I take one look at this and I'm feeling like a right evil swine. Gaun yourself, McCulloch....Away and raffle yourself! I'd like to see you do any better with the wall mirrors and a old filling. Get stuck into him, wee man!...Awright, man? How's it going?....I didn't expect you for another two seconds. That wee mirror world is excellent, isn't it? The backwards signs are a dead giveaway though. Still, never mind. Your card's marked now. Cheerio.... Eh?...Are you a head-case or something? I can't do hee-haw without the central processor!...Aye. I'm serious. Awright...the stolen dosh, the escape plan, the lassie moving backwards in time...that wee dollybird you're going out with is going to disappear back into her maw's belly if I don't find the gadgets to get this working again. Kudzu Tech in Singapore's the only place that makes them...What's the matter with you? English your second language or something? I said the wee one!...That's the boy. Were in business again. A whole minute left to save your sex life.....You don't. That's the choice you have to make, big man. Me or the bird.....Why does anybody do anything? The money, man. We do it for the money. A guy can never have enough notes in his pockets. To buy better gizmos and pull bigger jobs to make more money to buy better gizmos and pull bigger jobs. It's a bit like two mirrors reflecting into infinity, know?...But I'm a man of my word. Tell that wee doll of yours I was asking for her....The game's a bogy! None of the gizmos are working!...Eh? Are you joking? Is a wee polis cell with no windows supposed to put my gas at a peep? I've got the brains and the toys to turn this whole city into something out of Salvador Dali, man!...Aw, c'mon.....Aye, fair enough. The thing with the lights was a wee cracker. You win fair and square.
As you can see, Morrison's take on Evan McCulloch talked a lot, and with a very distinctive Glasgow burr--but without the extensive phonetic spelling that other writers used to make it clear that the character was, in fact, Scottish. Instead, Morrison primarily relies on cultural references and regionally specific slang. Since Morrison is from Scotland, it isn't surprising that the depiction comes across as authentic, even if I have no idea what McCulloch is supposed to be saying at least a quarter of the time.
Unfortunately for later writers, Morrison's voice for Evan was extremely distinctive, and very difficult for writers from other backgrounds to copy.
Thus, a recurring parade of (mostly) American authors vs the Glasgow burr began.
Mark Waid was first, in Flash vol. 2 #105:
Hurn...hurn...Believe me, Flash--a' did not know there were such dangerous creatures in this place. Hurn...hurn...All a' did was smash one wee mirror--an' it started a chain reaction. Before a' knew it there was a beastie after me....A' need your help, laddie....No, laddie. That's not the problem. The problem is...a'm in love. Do ye think only lads on th' right side of th' law c'n take a fancy t' someone?
Then I found somethin’ left by ma predecessor--the first Mirror Master--as a’ was muckin about his old lab. A sheaf o’ notes, y’see. Representin’ his research into somethin' called anti-tachyons. The kind o’ notes that might give a smart lad like me a door into the flippin’ mirror dimension. Mind ye, it took courage to make th journey. But a' could not live in my predecessor’s shadow forever.....Still a’ was struck dumb by what a' saw, ma poor heart pumpin' so hard a' thought it'd burst. It was th' flip side t' every reflective surface on Earth--every bit o' glass an' chrome an' soda water. The first Mirror Master must have spied on his marks here.
As you can see, the phonetic spelling becomes much more prominent when Waid attempts to write the accent, and Evan's casual, almost rambling style of conversation is swapped out for something more serious and straightforward.
Waid also, unfortunately, kind of mucks up Evan's moral code by making him a predatory stalker.
Then Geoff Johns took his crack at the accent.
He started out effectively doing a variation on Waid's version of the accent, as seen in the Wonderland arc:
It does look a wee bit bad on my part, don't it? But yer as much at fault as I am, Cold......Y'know they aren't real, don't ye? Nothing in this place is, Flash! Just smoke and mirrors. Hard light constructions. An exact copy a' the real world, with a few alterations. A virtual prison...or paradise depending on your point of view. And that's what all matter and light really is. Reality is just an objective point of view.....'Ere's the one...that'll do me....We've got ta get out soon, Flash. Like I told ye, our presence is gonna cause this place ta fold in on itself. That glimmer there, it's the start. I just need a large, reflective surface ta---.......It was taken. Yeah, "lifted up", awright? When something travels ta another world via the mirror lands, it leaves a kind a' soot behind. Nasty stuff, like this.....Light waves have been striking this sign all day. By twisting the photon impressions and expanding them into the visible spectrum, well....it's like watching yer TV at fast forward.
McCulloch also briefly became a comic book science exposition machine.
Then the accent starts becoming a bit more erratic, as seen in Flash vol. 2 #212 (Johns' Evan spotlight issue):
I know what a lot of 'em say about us. 'Bout the Rogues. Dressin’ in these bleedin’ costumes. Playing snakes and ladders with the Flash. Howzitgaun, Alice?...O'er here, Alice.....That's seven years bad luck. Or.. it woulda been.....I don't have too many memories from early on. Nothin' before those days at the orphanage in Kirkcaldy. It was like them Anderson fairy tales. The real ones. Nasty stories a' revenge and death and all. Not them kiddie versions. I was left on the doorstep, wrapped in a blanket. A picture of m' parents slipped inside. A real tear-jerker, eh? Miss McCulloch was th' one who found me there. She ran that house like the old lady who lived in a shoe. Tried ta be a mother to us all. Still remember that smell of hers. Like cinnamon and soap. From the cookin' and the cleanin'. Aye. Cinnamon and soap...made the world awright.....I still send Miss McCulloch a share from every job I pull. Help keep that place up. S'all anonymous a' course. Every Scotsman knows--ye never do a good deed just ta brag about it, do ye? Ye just do it cuz it's right.
Next thing I know, I run inta this fellah named Weather Wizard. One of the Rogues. Bunch a' thieves and such. Always goin' up against the Flash. Welcomes me ta the game. Says we oughta team up....Fightin' the Flash. Fastest Man Alive. Ain't so fast ta me. I weave webs a' light. Hero versus villain. Villain versus hero. That's what I do now. Th' great American way.
Naw, Cold. Got me own plans tonight....The real world...S'just not for me. Spat on my face, took my life and twisted it around. Made me inta somethin' I didn' choose ta be. I ain't ever goin' back. I ain't ever leaving Wonderland.
Note: Evan's "plans" are doing cocaine in a gross bathroom. And his accent seems to vacillate between Scottish and "tough guy American" between sentences.
Eventually, Johns apparently just quit trying altogether, which gave us the utterly bizarre hodgepodge accent we saw in Rogues Revenge #2:
No one’s said no to ’im....Who done it, Gambi?...Aye. There yeh are. Stupid %$&@#s.....Aye. Quit yer whinin', eh?....Kid might not be James Jesse...but ah'm not Sam Scudder. Difference between us and yeh carryin' on...our predecessors aren't breathin', eh?.....Aye. Yoor father's waitin'....What don't yeh get?....We went light on 'em considerin' what they did ta Gambi and diggin' up Cold's old man. Take uh long look at them pretenders, eh? Yeh think the Rogues jus' welcomed me in wit' open arms 'cause I wuz wearin' this getup? There wuz another Mirror Master before me, and takin' his place weren't nothin' easy. They made me earn it. Yeh want to stick around insteada endin' up like those pretenders...yeh gotta earn it too....Yeh don't tell Cold why yeh wanna be here--yeh tell him why ya need ta be here.
I think he has like 5 different accents here. In particular, "gotta" does not seem as though it would read super naturally with a Scottish accent, and "Who done it, Gambi?", feels more like a working-class American accent.
Most recently, Si Spurrier took a crack at the accent:
Och---how about that? Set a big aul' bear trap in case one o' youse speedsters tracks us doon--instead we catch a scrawny wee rodent. Yeh weren't invited, lass....Aye. But well-informed or otherwise, I've no use for a bairn playin' the big shot. Be a terrible waste o' all this tech, lettin' a wee brat like ye ruin the operation. Time to shut it doon. And ye can just bloody burn, eh?....Well, well, well. What do we have here? A pair o' wee bugs, caught between th’ walls....Heh. The bairn cannae hear ye, lass. Astral membranes, y’see? Parabolic mirrors, makin’ loops ootae light and space...even aul’ Wally couldnae get close....Oh, aye. This is all for him. Isolatin’ him...breakin’ him doon...showin’ him what he needs to see. Be a real pain in the jacksie if not fer th’ reward...Heh. Youse two are cute. And right. In about three seconds Little Miss Science Class there's due tae make a wee breakthrough with, ahh...interestin' side effects...Hah! Not me, laddie. Her. She's tinkerin' wi' cosmic craziness now. I just...focused it a wee bit. Funny thing is, this is exactly how I lured aul' Wally into a trap the first time round. Hah! And you know the best part? She thinks it's all her idea! Enjoy yer new wavelengths, kiddies. And, eh...say hullo to the other lads.
I think he's got the best version of the accent we've seen since Morrison--although given how bizarre Johns' take was, that might not be saying all that much.
Digger serves as an interesting counterpoint to Evan, because, while he is Australian, he was not created by an Australian writer, so his accent does not have a "normal" or "mostly correct" baseline. Instead, we get an accumulation of writers gradually remembering that Australian people have different accents from Americans and attempting to demonstrate that fact.
John Broome (first appearance, Flash vol. 1 #117 in 1960): Well, sink me if this isn't an incredible coincidence! Here I was just prepared to launch myself on a new chapter of my criminal career--using a boomerang--when I read this advertisement! "Will become national celebrity"!...Hmmm! I intended to do that anyway but this will make it easy! And I shouldn't have any trouble landing the job considering the years I spent in the Australian bush hiding out from the law....Tip-top, Mr. Wiggins!....I couldn't have designed a better one if I'd done it myself!....Yes, sir---so far everything is working out great! I've got the job---and the uniform! From now on my plan ought to roll....The police? Ha ha! Small chance they have of catching me! I've thought of everything. Even if the Flash should get on my tail--I have a plan for that too!
If he didn't mention the Australian bush, you wouldn't know he was Australian at all.
Cary Bates, Flash vol. 1 #227 (1974): Blimey! I was enjoying the ride to the new state pen! So why this stopover?....Good! I hope you get blown up instead of me! Hey, how about taking off this bloody straightjacket while I'm locked up here?...Thanks a heap, creep!...I have to hand it to myself for planning ahead for tough times like this! Last year I went to every jail within a hundred miles of Central City, secretly planting special getaway boomerangs! As each getawayrang was tossed into a cell, it dropped out of sight, where it would remain unexpected till an emergency rose. And me in a straightjacket on the way to the choky sure ranks in the emergency department!.....From me to you, Barry Allen...for rubbing me the wrong way! Huh? The bloke popped out of sight!...Th-the Flash? Where from down under did he come from?
Cary Bates realizes that Digger is supposed to have an accent. Unfortunately, his ability to indicate that in this issue is limited to "blimey", "bloke", and "bloody", none of which are exclusively Australian, and which ultimately leaves him sounding...arguably kind of British.
This issue also introduced us to Digger's Pre-Crisis dad, Aussie Green, who, in spite of his name, sounded even more British than his son:
Ha! Even if those bobbies check out every nut and bolt on that wagon, they'll find no bomb. The call was a hoax, engineered to get Digger off the street and into police headquarters.....He's wakin' up, son. You sure he won't be vibratin' himself loose?....Bully! It makes the perfect ending for my scrapbook!
"Bully"? Is this guy Theodore Roosevelt or what? And "bobbies", of course, is slang for London police officers.
Bates continued to attempt the accent, but it quickly became clear that the only words he knew to indicate "Australian" were the aforementioned "bloody", "blimey", and "bloke", plus "fair dinkum" and "mate":
Flash vol. 1 #243-244, Bates: But what did the old boy in?...I've always pegged Flash for a millionaire playboy!....Blimey! That rat's gonna take Central City with him!....Ah, there you are, old foe! Perfect timing, I must say!...How droll! But it will take more than quick quips to help you now!...Too stunned for words, Flash? It's just what it looks like--a remote-controlled fleet of flying boomerangs!...That's it, Flash. Go into your old routine--launch a protective air-break with your super-speed--because it's your super-speed that's powering the special batteries in my boomerangs. That now makes them as fast as you--and more deadly.....Easy for you to say, Weather Wizard. Obviously you didn't run into the Flash--since he was busy fighting me!....And less than half a day until zero hour! Fellow Rogues, it's going to be a squeaker!....After all, the poor bloke is dead!.....Blimey, mate! Don't you recognize the voice of Weather Wizard when you hear it?...Aren't you cutting this short? In six minutes, the city goes boom!...That's fair dinkum, Wiz!
"How droll" is especially hilarious. That's a very posh exclamation there, Digger.
Bates again, Flash vol. 1 #278: Blimey! I can hardly contain myself--I'm so anxious to see my new acquisitions! Ah! These incredibly rare necklaces of crimson pearls are even more breathtaking than my underworld snitch said they were! Yes, indeed! I'll wager every costumed villain in Central City had their eye on these beauties--but not one of them acted fast enough to beat me to the punch!...You got me, Flash--dead to rights! I know from past experience it would be foolish for me to go up against your speed in a situation like this! I'm all yours, bloke! That is, heh heh, if you'll be in any condition to take me!.....Impressive, eh, Flash! My electro-boomerangs emit spark-trails carrying a deadly 5,000 volts apiece!....That's just to keep you occupied while their two companions swoop in to do their thing!....A-all right, Flash. You foiled my escape---but I'm not through fightin'--.... I was just there to party and pick pockets! Murdering a woman is beneath a gentleman like me, Flash!...Blimey! What's he up to?
I miss non-murderous pseudo-gentlemanly thief Digger. Even if he sounded like an American guy pretending to be Australian by using vague slang.
Bates again, #310: W.W. Wiggins is the man solely responsible for all the great monetary gain I've acquired since I left the Outback and came to America. True, I've made and lost several fortunes over the years, but such are the pratfalls of a master criminal's life. Still, I never would've amounted to anything more than a petty thief--if it wasn't for the way Willard Wiggins took me under his wing years ago! I owe the man--and now that this Colonel Computron bloke is out to nail his hide, now is the time for Digger Harkness to repay an old debt! Chin up, WW! A helping hand is on the way!....It's been quite a few toy-seasons, hasn't it, WW, since you hired an out-of-work Australian to become the public spokesperson for your first big seller--the Wiggins boomerang! I'm indebted to you, WW...and Digger Harkness--alias Captain Boomerang--always repays a debt! Little did I know the costume you created for me that season would inspire me to become a first-class criminal!...Appreciate the compliment, mate! But as I said, I'm here to balance the books after all these years...What you need is protection! The kind only I can provide!...Well, WW...if you insist on paying me for my services....Appreciate the poignant sentiment, Flash--but this scorpion is about to fly! Many thanks, old foe! I couldn't have managed this getaway without you!...Blimey! Shot down by Colonel Computron!....Computron, you're a corrupt and wicked bloke---which means you have all the makings of a splendid accomplice!
You know Digger is Australian because he says he's Australian and says "mate".
In all seriousness, I actually find pre-Crisis Digger's insistence on paying debts--both positive and negative---really interesting.
Flash #311, still Bates: A boomerang, WW! I knew you wouldn't mind if I smoked!...Greetings, old foe! I had every confidence it wouldn't take long at all for my latest toy to attract your attention!.....Uh oh! This must be where Flash and I get off! The boomerang was primed to fling us several centuries into the past...we couldn't be very precise! Regardless of the exact year, we calculated the arrival would take place somewhere over the South Pacific--which means a splashdown in the ocean--and my parents never taught little Digger how to swim!...Well, blow me down! It appears we've lucked out and snagged ourselves in the sails of an 18th-century pirate ship on the South Seas!.....(Here he starts doing his best pirate voice) Avast, mateys--that scarlet swab is with me--Digger the Deadly!...Er...look ahoy! That's my ship up there! I'm a sky-pirate-I sail the clouds!...(Back to normal) Captain Boomerang is the name--and boomerangs are my game, you scurvy degenerates!...Limey? How dare you accuse me of being a lowly Englishman? If you wretches had any culture you'd be able to tell I'm a proud Australian...I have a confession for you, Flash. If Computron hadn't double-crossed me first, I would've finked out on him--as soon as we boomeranged you out of the picture! You see, I owe someone else a debt!....Blimey!
Digger adopting the stereotypical pirate accent (which is, from my understanding, a variation/exaggeration of the British West Country accent) is hilarious, because now we have a supposedly Australian guy who talks like a confused American attempting a British accent who is putting on a West Country accent. Are you confused yet?
Also, hey, Bates expanded his slang roster to include the word "limey!"
I think Bates had never talked to an Australian person in his life. Which is why Digger's dad is British and Digger is...all the accents.
If Bates knew a total of six slang words and used them on rotation, Len Wein apparently looked up "Australian slang" and then used every term he could find:
Len Wein, 1980 Batman comic: Okay, cobbers! That's far enough!...I gave you a chance, mates, but if it's a fight you want--Captain Boomerang will be more than happy to give you one! Tell your boss that was only a warning! He owes me one million dollars--and he's got 24 hours to pay me!....Wrong, cobber! I've barely begun! Lor', but I hate this cronky town! I never would've come here from Central City if it wasn't for my million quid! That swag was my retirement fund--and I'll not see it stolen by any fast-talking high-living silvertail! It's really rum--downright ironic! The one time I play the game by their rules--and it's me who gets taken for a sucker! Well, nobody crosses Digger Harkness and gets away with it! I took the simple weapon of the Australian bushmen---and made the use of it an art! I'm a jack who always pays his debts--and always delivers! That fat spruiker owes me, and he's going to pay me--one way or the other!...Aye, a fair dinkum choice indeed, for a last meal! It's taken me a long time to find you, mat--I've come for my money!... That's as close as you come, cobber! I know all about you...As I've heard it, you can kill a jack with your bare hands--so you'll forgive me if I cosh you before you can lay those hands on me! Now get your big duff out of that chair, fat man--and get me my money!...You sold short the stock I had all my retirement swag in--and the barmy thing collapsed!... (after knocking out Batman) You gave it a fair dinkum try, cobber--but fair isn't good enough when you're dealing with the likes of me!...Nothin' permanent, mate--you're simply tied to my giant rocket-powered boomerang...But you needn't worry about dying of asphyxiation, mate!
CAN YOU TELL HE'S AUSTRALIAN YET?
Conversely, Doug Moench basically didn't bother with the accent at all:
Batman #388, 1985, written by Doug Moench: You fool, Mirror Master! The night guard was almost here---before my boomerang made a round-trip visit to his noggin...Revenge, mate. A score to settle...Listen, ace! This boomerang was good enough to....Of course, mate. But I'm tellin' ya, the Batman--....I hear ya, Mirror Master!...Yeah? Have fun looking in your mirrors, chump--after I've humiliated you!...Yoicks!....Scudder's a vain, arrogant fool--not caring if everyone in Gotham's underworld knew he was in town, and not even bothering to keep his hideout a secret. Mirrors everywhere, of course....Understand, mate?
If he didn't say "mate" one time he would sound entirely American.
Finally, around 1987, John Ostrander got ahold of the character for Suicide Squad, and effectively pinned down the character's "modern" accent:
John Ostrander, Suicide Squad #44; 1990: Yuh. Listen, mate--make it George while we're here. It's only my bleedin' name, after all. Strewth, I'm bloody surprised it's here at all….Well, g'day yourself, ya bloody great goolah!....Ta, mate!....Get stuffed. You don't own me. You never did. You never did a bloody thing for me when I was a kid, so don't come all high and bloody mighty now!...It's fair dinkum! You know it!....You want to barney? Come on, galah! I've had it with you Yanks! You can all stuff it!
It's still very much "I AM AUSTRALIAN", but at least it sounds slightly more like a normal person talking.
The Strange Case of Dr. Albert Desmond and Mr. Element...and Alvin
Albert Desmond has one of the most confusing, convoluted histories of any comic book character. In this post, I'm going to attempt to break down his long, complicated, and frequently-confusing history and make some level of sense of what's going on with him.
Albert Desmond debuted in Showcase #13 as Mr. Element in 1958. At this point, he had no civilian identity.
He did, however, have costumed henchmen, who he named Helium, Neon, Argon, Krypton, Xenon, and Radon after the six inert elements, and a love of monologuing.
Mr. Element: I've named you six underlings after the six inert elements, because you can't make a move without me!.....Do you think I became what I am by accident? Listen, and I'll explain a thing or two to you! When I resolved on my criminal career, I knew that one thing alone might keep me from complete success--the Flash! Even as a boy, I had always been fascinated by the chemical elements!
Young Al: All precious things are elements! Diamond is pure carbon! And then there's gold, silver, platinum....
*Albert, I would like to point out that all things, precious or otherwise, are made up of elements.*
Mr. Element: When I grew up and became involved in crime, I profited by my boyhood reading.
Past Albert: I can only succeed as a criminal if I defeat the Flash! And there's only one way I can do that--by elements! The elements contain the answer to everything--even the Flash! I shall gain complete mastery over the elements!
Mr. Element: I carried out my idea with my usual thoroughness, secured an adequate hideout, and designed my own uniform. Life is based on carbon, so my emblem shall be the model of a carbon atom! Elements are found in rocks, so my headquarters shall be among these underground rocks! To inhale only pure oxygen, I wear this atmosphere-filter!
That pure oxygen he's inhaling may explain some of his odd behavior.
Anyway, Mr. Element proceeds to go on robberies and fight the Flash, all the while teaching the audience about vanadium (one of the hardest substances known), sodium (which explodes on contact with water), silicon (used in glass), magnesium (useful for flares), and radium (useful for explosives).
He also tries to send the Flash into outer space with elemento, a form of "magnetic light", the existence of which violates the laws of physics, but Flash escapes this trap by violating the laws of physics back at Mr. Element.
It's also worth noting that, at this point, there is no indication that Mr. Element has innate powers without his element gun.
Mr. Element would return one issue later, in Showcase #14, where he gave himself an entirely new costume and identity.
Dr. Alchemy: There is no more Mr. Element! I have adopted a new identity, one that will enable me to deal with my enemy--the Flash! From now on--I am Dr. Alchemy! From now on, "change" is the key word in my methods--and the means by which I shall defeat the Flash! I have become the maser of change! Already my new methods enabled me to break out of jail! My cellmate, Ben Sniper, first put me on the right track, by accident! He kept talking about his "lucky stone".
Ben Sniper: And the one time I left my lucky stone home, I was nabbed by the police!
Based on this extremely limited information, Albert deduces that Ben's lucky stone must be the Philosopher's Stone, so he uses a spoon to dig his way out of prison, and then makes his way to Ben's house, where he finds the stone. Following this, he takes it to his "subterranean lair", where he tests its abilities.
Albert: It works! By merely pressing a certain point on the stone and directing it at a lead pipe, I've changed it to gold!...I'm learning how to control the stone! Depending on where I press it, I can cause different substances to change in different ways! I now have the power to change the Earth! But a change in method calls for a change in name! I know! It was the ancient alchemists who searched for the Philosopher's Stone! I shall use it as Dr. Alchemy!
That's right. A random criminal's lucky stone turned out to be the Philosopher's Stone. That has to be the most improbable coincidence in all of Silver Age Flash comics---and that's saying a lot.
Dr. Alchemy proceeds to go on a crime spree, stealing money in spite of the fact that he can transmute anything to gold, and escaping the Flash by doing things like changing coins into quicksilver and transmuting the air into rubber bands. However, eventually the Flash overpowers him, captures him, and throws the Philosopher's Stone into orbit.
Which makes it really odd when Dr. Alchemy shows up again in Justice League of America vol. 1 #21-22 (1960) and somehow has the Philosopher's Stone again. How did it not burn up when the Flash threw it into orbit at escape velocity?
Whatever the case, Dr. Alchemy spends most of these issues working with the other Crime Champions (Chronos and Felix Faust from Earth-1 and Fiddler, the Wizard, and the Icicle from Earth-2) to steal money and defeat the Justice League.
His powers are basically the same as in Showcase #14, and he still has no civilian identity.
When we next see the character, in Flash vol. 1 #147 (1964), he has reformed and been released from prison. He also gets his name, Albert Desmond, and a fiancee, Rita.
Barry describes the situation thusly: On either side of him...the two spectacular criminals he formerly created--Dr. Alchemy and Mr. Element---when his whole purpose in life was to defeat the Flash and enrich himself at the expense of others! But Desmond conquered his criminal drive! He's a new man...completely reformed!
Unfortunately for Albert, while he and Rita are at lunch with Barry and Iris, Professor Zoom the Reverse-Flash uses the mental powers that he had at this point to force him to leave the restaurant, go to his old hideout, and do some science to bring Eobard to the present.
Eobard wants Albert to stabilize "element Z", which will give him permanent super-speed (at this point, his speed came from an old costume of Barry's that he amplified the super-speed wave patterns from, allowing him to use the same powers while wearing it). Albert refuses.
Albert: You want me to help you commit crimes! But I've given up crime! Even if I wanted to help you, I couldn't! My unique powers as Mr. Element were linked only to the criminal side of my nature, which I have overcome!
This line is the first evidence of apparent dissociation between Albert Desmond and his costumed identities. Apparently, Albert's scientific knowledge is, at this stage, blocked off to him when he's not acting as one of his criminal alters.
I don't know if Broome was necessarily intending that Albert have Dissociative Identity Disorder at this point, but since Bates later established that he did, that seems to be what's going on here.
Regardless, Eobard uses his mind-control powers to force Albert to dress up as Mr. Element, commit crimes, and create Element Z for him, much to Albert's agony.
Albert: His words...that I like crime...are they really true? Am I a criminal at heart? I thought that part of me was behind me--forever! If only I could break loose from his mental control!
It also gives us this great exchange between Albert and Eobard.
Eobard: Here! I said I'd reward you! Even though I engineered the crime, the loot's all yours! Not bad for a night's work, eh?
Albert: Sure, loot for a criminal. Yes....
Eobard: Cheer up! You may be a criminal, but you're a rich one! Ha ha! And now it's time for me to go. I've kept my promise to you--and you've kept your part of the bargain too! It's been a pleasure to make your acquaintance!
Albert: I...I wish I'd never set eyes on you!
There's something morbidly funny about Eobard going on about how successful their evil partnership was while Albert is devastated about the fact that Eobard has basically ruined his life for no reason.
Albert turns himself in to the police for the crimes he committed while under mind control, but he is released when Barry defeats Eobard and learns that Eobard was forcing him to commit crimes against his will.
The character's next appearance was in Flash vol. 1 #153 (1965). In this issue, we learn that Albert is working at an industrial company and is about to be made supervisor. It's a bit odd that he's not in a laboratory, given his scientific expertise and the fact that he later works as a scientist, but maybe at this point his scientific knowledge is still blocked off from him for whatever reason.
Regardless, he turns down the promotion because he's been feeling a terrifying urge to start stealing again. In the hopes of avoiding recidivism, he meets with Barry Allen for lunch, and, after nearly becoming Mr. Element again and only narrowly stopping himself, Barry takes him to a rest home, since he's suffering from what Barry describes as "a near nervous breakdown".
This is the first issue to really suggest that Albert might potentially struggle with mental health issues.
Barry and Albert describe the situation as follows:
Barry (thinking): According to Al, it's all starting again---the terrible urge to steal, to commit crimes--just as happened last year when Professor Zoom sought to make him revert to his original Mr. Element identity!
Albert: Yes, that's why I couldn't accept the promotion, Barry! It would have meant handling company funds, and I--I don't trust myself! Lately, the urge to become a criminal again has been getting stronger--stronger! I don't know how long I can control myself!
But his mental health isn't the only issue at play, because we quickly learn that the reason Albert's been struggling with his criminal urges is because Professor Zoom the Reverse-Flash has used "the science of ultra-speed" to invent a device that "will make whatever evil there is in a person flourish, like sunlight makes a plant grow!"
In other words, Eobard's mind-controlling him again. However, because the beam of the device can't be narrowed through the 500-year time corridor it's passing through, Eobard can't keep the beam focused on Desmond, which is why the poor man is having a nervous breakdown instead of simply becoming fully evil. To fix this problem, Eobard decides to head back in time on his Cosmic Treadmill, which he copied from Barry, so that he can shoot the evil ray directly at Albert.
His arrival in Central City attracts the Flash, and the two of them battle for awhile. Albert, who was on a stroll near the rest home, stumbles on their battle.
Albert: As Al Desmond I can't do anything in this desperate emergency to aid the Flash! I'm nobody! But as my old alter ego, Mr. Element, I was someone--with extraordinary powers! Only as Mr. Element do I stand a chance of saving Flash! But wait! As Mr. Element, the evil side of me will take over! I won't be able to prevent it--and I won't want to aid Flash! Yet there may be a way out of this dilemma...one possible way...
Given this description, it does seem that at this point Mr. Element is fairly separate as an entity from Albert Desmond.
Eobard captures Barry, and he decides to have Albert, who is now fully under the control of the evil ray and has robbed a jewelry store, kill the Flash instead of doing it himself. Mr. Element does show up in Eobard's hideout, but instead of shooting Barry, he shoots the radiation machine that Eobard was using to hold Barry prisoner, freeing the Flash. Flash quickly defeats Eobard, and then goes to thank Albert for saving his life, only for Mr. Element to call him his enemy.
Mr. Element: As Al Desmond, before putting on my Mr. Element attire, I gave myself a post-hypnotic suggestion. Self-hypnosis had long been one of my hobbies! And as Desmond I was out to help you. I ordered myself under hypnosis to come to your assistance the moment I saw you! Actually, I couldn't help myself! My fingers were forced to turn my Element Gun away from you and at Zoom's machine.
So yes. Albert apparently has a hobby of self-hypnosis. Could that potentially be a method by which he tries to manage his illness? It certainly seems effective at limiting the harm Mr. Element is able to cause.
Also, it's worth noting that the pattern over this issue and issue #147 seems to establish that the full trigger for Mr. Element to take over the body completely is when Albert puts on the costume.
Whatever the case, Mr. Element tries to shoot the Flash, and the Flash stops him, knocks him out, and runs him to the 25th century, where a program of "electro-reeducation" somehow eradicates the evil in him.
This sounds an awful lot like brainwashing, but since Albert appears to retain free will and Mr. Element later returns, apparently the machine just helped Albert take back control of his body.
Albert and Barry return to their own time, Albert accepts the promotion, and the story ends with Rita and Albert planning to get married right away.
And indeed, when Albert next appears, in the Flash vol. 1 #165 (1966), he and Rita are indeed married. Both of them are guests at Barry and Iris' wedding. They don't do a whole lot, but it's cute to see them at Barry's wedding regardless.
Following his cameo in #165, Albert and Rita return in Flash vol. 1 #216.
The story opens basically in medias res, with Albert running up to Barry, begging for help, and then suddenly transforming into Mr. Element (he transmutes his costume out of thin air) and setting him on fire. After Barry escapes from the flames, Rita comes up to him to explain what's going on.
Rita: He's become evil again, Barry! Al tried to resist it--but the counter-forces inside him are too strong! It wasn't until last night that Al told me the cause of his affliction. It's the cursed gem in this ring--known as the Dragon's Eye! The ring belonged to Professor Peter Desmond--
Barry: The astronomer who discovered a star where the "eye" would be in the Dragon constellation. Al couldn't have been more than a baby at the time!
Rita: The Dragon's Eye is a pulsating sun...a rare type of star that constantly changes in brightness, caused by expansion and contraction of the stellar body! When Professor Desmond sighted it, he was wearing the Dragon Eye ring. While his telescope was in use, it focalized the starlight--like a magnifying glass draws together sunlight, and the pulsating energy was absorbed into the ring's gem.
When Professor Desmond took baby Al into his arms, "the pulsating sun suddenly erupted with surging intensity, inducing the pulsating energy in the ring to also burst forth and flow into the nearest recipient, his son! From that day forward, Al has been constantly energized by light rays emanating from the Dragon's Eye!"
Apparently, this pulsating star is somehow responsible for Albert's mental instability.
Rita: For the first twenty years of his life, the star remained relatively calm...but then it started pulsating again---and that's when Al became Mr. Element. He's been fluctuating between good and evil ever since--a helpless slave of the changing starlight that flows into him!
This doesn't entirely mesh with the fact that Eobard was able to manipulate his mind and cause the Mr. Element persona to emerge, but who knows. Maybe his mind-control was able to induce the same effects that the solar pulsations did.
Barry goes to look for Mr. Element, who reacts angrily .
Mr. Element: I spied you in a secret rendezvous with my wife, Barry Allen! And to think I considered you my best friend!
It's interesting that Element refers to Rita as "my wife". That suggests he has some level of emotional attachment to her.
Anyway, Element angrily chases after Barry, who switches costumes and becomes the Flash. The two do battle for a bit, and we learn something very interesting: namely, that Albert has innate powers.
Barry: The weapon doesn't fire!
Albert: Of course not! The power within me is its only ammunition! The gun merely concentrates my elemental energy into concentrated rays! But I can doom you without it!
Albert proceeds to prove his point by turning Barry into neon gas and trapping him in a neon sign.
So this means that the Element Gun (and, presumably, the Philosopher's Stone) don't have innate powers of their own. They're just conduits that refine Albert's power.
Albert takes over and turns Barry back into a human when the pulsating star subsides...only to ask Barry to kill him. You see, the Dragon's Eye star has gone super-nova, and the effects of it doing so reaching Earth will cause Albert to explode "with the force of a million H-bombs!"
Instead of killing Albert, Barry instead goes into outer space, collects "negative starlight", which evidently absorbs solar energy, in the Dragon's Eye ring, fires a beam of that negative starlight at Mr. Element, and saves him and the planet. Doing this also allows Albert to take control of the body once again.
So Albert has enough power inside him that he could theoretically explode and destroy the entire Earth. No wonder he's so insanely powerful.
Albert and Rita next appeared in Flash vol. 1 #221, where they made a brief cameo at Barry's birthday party.
After that, the couple returned in Flash vol. 1 #230.
In this issue, they two of them are being interviewed on TV while on vacation in Culverton when a gargoyle suddenly falls off a building and nearly crushes Albert and Rita. Albert stops it from crushing them by using his powers to disintegrate it.
Barry and Iris seem to think that removing the Dragon's Eye energy from Albert should make it impossible for him to become Mr. Element again (and for what it's worth, the Mr. Element identity never resurfaces, so maybe they were right).
Barry: There's another possibility! Think back--to the time the sinister science of Mr. Element was replaced by sinister sorcery--when Al Desmond went on a criminal rampage, possessed by a third and most dangerous personality--Dr. Alchemy, the mystic mastermind who controlled the elements by the ancient art of alchemy!....In conjuring up his evil-minded ego, Al may have unleashed a monster that could destroy him!
We also get this exchange between Al and Rita:
Albert: You'd better drive, Rita! I'm still feeling kinda shaky after that Dr. Alchemy experience!
Rita: You had to do it, darling! It was the only way to save your life! (Thinking) Poor Al! After Flash excised his evil Mr. Element personality, Al vowed he had enough willpower to keep his alter ego, Dr. Alchemy, out of mind and under control!
This gives us confirmation: Albert Desmond has Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder). Mr. Element and Dr. Alchemy are his alters, and they take over when he's under mental stress, particularly when he also uses his powers. It seems that Albert associates use of his powers with his alters.
While Albert and Rita are driving back to Central City, Dr. Alchemy takes over the body, sets the car on fire--with Rita inside--and goes off to do his evil plan.
Notably, unlike Mr. Element, who referred to Rita as his wife and was angry when he thought Flash was romancing her, Dr. Alchemy seems to have no apparent affection for or connection with Rita at all. He simply leaves her to die.
Flash saves Rita's life, assures her that Albert and Dr. Alchemy are "two separate people", and then goes off to stop Dr. Alchemy, who sets the Talbot building aflame with green fire. Apparently, this is because the gargoyle statue that almost fell on Albert and Rita had the face of the fire demon Vadtara on it, and Dr. Alchemy decided that this meant that the demon had possessed him and that he should burn down all of Central City to purify it.
Barry Allen defeats Dr. Alchemy by helping Albert regain control of his body by subliminally shocking him with the knowledge that he is the Flash. Once he takes back control, the magic green fire is extinguished and the city is saved.
Albert: I'm sure glad my personality won out! You know, I had the odd feeling--even though I was fighting Dr. Alchemy all along with my will power--I sensed someone else was helping me break through!
This seems to suggest that, while Albert has no control over his alters, he does have some awareness of what's going on while they're in control.
Interesting.
Albert and Rita then disappeared from the comic for quite awhile. While they were off-panel, they apparently moved to Star City because his company had given him a promotion and a transfer.
When they next appeared, it was in Flash vol. 1 #287.
Barry is working in his laboratory at the Central City Police Department alongside his fellow police scientist Patty Spivot when Dr. Alchemy suddenly bursts in, holding the Philosopher's Stone and accompanied by two minions dressed like monks for some reason.
He steals a police vest made out of valuable synthetic dyrithium (which may have the same surface density as a diamond) and evades the Flash.
Flash naturally and reluctantly assumes that this means that Albert's Dr. Alchemy alter has taken over again and speeds over to check on him and Rita. On his way their house, we learn that Albert and Rita attended Iris' funeral (we didn't see them on panel, but it's nice to learn that they were there), and Barry also makes it explicit that Rita was a major force behind Albert's reformation.
Once he arrives at their house, Albert says that he was helping Rita with an overflowing laundry machine at the time of the robbery, but Rita says he was out of the house at that time. This confuses and upsets Albert, which prompts this interesting comment from Rita.
Rita: Easy, honey! Let me get you a tranquilizer!
This suggests that Albert is being medicated, at least occasionally and to some extent, for his condition.
Albert is arrested, but seems to break out of jail not long afterwards. This deeply distresses Barry, who is now pretty sure his friend's evil alter has emerged again. He also makes it clear that he thinks Albert needs psychiatric help, which further supports the notion that Albert does indeed have DID (even if its presentation is somewhat exaggerated and fictionalized.
But then we get the reveal...that the Dr. Alchemy who has been committing the crimes is not Albert's alter, but rather a completely different man--a second Al Desmond with the same voice but a completely different appearance!
Flash #288 opens with the police describing Albert thusly:
Captain Darryl Frye: According to this man Desmond's file, he's always suffered from an erratic, unstable personality! In between his sporadic criminal rampages in various costumed aliases, there have been lasting tranquil periods in his life in which he appeared to reform, functioning as a law-abiding citizen!
We also learn that Albert may be able to control the Philosopher's Stone at will, which would make sense, because issue #216 established that Al's powers are innate and that the Stone is just a conduit for his powers. Barry seems to think he's controlling it telepathically, but maybe he just reforms it whenever he needs to.
After the new Al Desmond goes on another crime spree, he returns to boast some more to Albert Desmond.
Alvin Desmond: I'm the Al Desmond behind these new crime---but you're the Al Desmond taking the rap! No one even suspects that I sprang you from the jail cell--making it appear that you had escaped yourself! I suppose, under the circumstances, the least you're entitled to is a bit of explanation from me! Even though we didn't meet until a few days ago...would you believe our lives have been inexorably linked for over thirty years! Believe me, it's true! We have far more in common than the same first name! To put it in a nutshell, Al, you and I are twins. Not physically--but astrally! To begin with, we were both born at precisely 12:07 AM on the same day in the same year...even though our respective mothers gave birth to us in hospitals thousands of miles apart! Both of us were christened Albert by our joyous parents....Mr. and Mrs. Herman Desmond of San Diego, California, and Mr. and Mrs. Herbert Desmond of Tampa, Florida!
From the 1976 DC calendar, we know the specific day was July 20th, and from the Who's Who in the DC Universe issue from 1985, we also know that Alvin's parents are Mr. and Mrs. Herman Desmond, meaning that he was the one who was born in San Diego, while Albert was the one born in Florida.
That Who's Who issue also apparently renamed him Alvin, since, as you can see, he was actually also named Albert originally.
And yes, Cary Bates called Albert's dad Peter in issue #216 and Herbert here. He was notorious for forgetting characters' names, so this shift isn't surprising.
Alvin: Early in our respective childhoods, we were both obsessed with the same uncanny fascination with chemistry and the world of the elements! As you know only too well, Al, your obsession had taken control of you by the time you reached adulthood---as you fashioned a unique uniform and dubbed yourself Mr. Element--becoming one of the most dangerous costumed criminals to ever challenge the Flash! It was only later, after your arrest and subsequent escape that you discovered the Philosopher's Stone and became Dr. Alchemy! As for myself, I too was beset by a powerful evil urge to use my elemental expertise to commit crimes. But unlike you, I had the presence of mind to seek help of the psychiatric variety! Oddly enough, I soon began to notice a definite pattern. It seemed that whenever you were in the throes of one of your criminal episodes, my own evil urges would subside and cause me no trouble. But by the same token, when your urges were dormant and you were able to lead a normal, law-abiding life, I was once again seized by the chilling grip of unrelenting, inexorable evil! these past several years , while you were thriving as a productive citizen, I was sentenced to intensified psychotherapy and round-the-clock anti-aggression drugs! But finally, no degree of preventative measures could control the rampant evil which had possessed me for so long! Because of our astral link, it was a simple matter for me to telepathically lock-in on your subconscious to discover where you had hidden the Philosopher's Stone! But it was while preparing my own crime debut that the inspiration hit me. Since the world was aware of one Dr. Alchemy and one Al Desmond--I saw no reason to confuse them!
Alvin goes on to explain that he invented a new element called Desmondium, which allowed him to mind-control Rita and force her to lie about Albert's location at the time of the robbery, and which has kept Albert passively in place for this very long monologue.
Alvin leaves and goes to battle the Flash, nearly killing him, and leaves for the next part of his crime under the assumption that Flash is dead. Meanwhile, Albert has escaped Alvin's cave hideout and has donned his Mr. Element costume.
In issue #289, Albert tracks down and battles his evil twin to a draw, then saves some firefighters from a fire that Alvin left to burn after their duel. Barry comes on the scene not long after Albert leaves and learns that Albert is in action as Mr. Element. Then Rita finds him, tells him the story about Alvin (he stopped by to tell her when he picked up the costume), and explains that Albert intends to stop Alvin's evil scheme. The Flash leaves to go help him, and together the two of them stop Alvin from using nuclear waste material to create a bunch of Desmondium to mind-control the entire world. Albert then goes back home to his wife.
That was the last Pre-Crisis appearance of either Albert or Alvin Desmond, although Barry does think about Albert in issue #300, which also gives us a flashback scene which confirms that Barry attended Albert and Rita's wedding.
Alvin appeared in an issue of Manhunter around 1986, and also appeared in a few issues of Blue Beetle, where he fused the Philosopher's Stone to his own body and then was turned to stone himself.
He then showed up again, none the worse for wear, in Flash vol. 2 #19, where we learned that he had become rather chummy with the Rogues. He was one of the guests at the party celebrating Len's release from the Suicide Squad, and we learned that he apparently had a crush on Lisa Snart (Golden Glider). Unfortunately, being Alvin, he decided to try to impress her by turning her underwear to gold. This method was, shockingly, not particularly effective.
Albert and Alvin next appeared in the Flash vol. 2 #40-41 (1990). Wally goes to see Albert because Linda Park has apparently been possessed by an Irish ghost named Seamus O'Relkig, and Albert is apparently the only expert Wally knows in mystical stuff.
Wally confirms that Albert reformed years ago, that he and Barry were good friends, and that Albert was nice to him when he was Kid Flash.
He also, interestingly, says "I heard that he had lost his grant a couple of years ago, which suggests that Albert had been working as a scientist. As mentioned, he was working for an industrial company the last we explicitly saw, but maybe he eventually started working for them in a scientific capacity or was always working for them in a scientific capacity.
Regardless, when they get inside they find Alvin posing as Albert. Somehow, in spite of the red hair (Albert has black hair), his creepiness towards Linda, and the fact that he nearly calls himself Alvin Desmond before catching himself and saying Albert, Wally doesn't figure out he's not Albert until he puts on the Dr. Alchemy costume, they fight, and then they find the real Albert tied up in a closet.
Good work, Wally.
Anyways, in the following issue, Alvin robs a bank, creeps on the female teller, and turns her into gold when she refuses his advances.
Wally thinks Alvin is still in jail, but apparently he turned himself into salt and reformed elsewhere.
Alvin goes on another rampage as Dr. Alchemy, and Albert turns up in the Mr. Element identity to stop him. Then we get the big reveal:
Alvin isn't Albert's psychic twin. He's a construct created by the Philosopher's Stone, based on Albert's own dark impulses and given false memories to give deniability. Albert accepts his dark side as part of himself and turns Alvin to stone.
In other words, the reason Alvin survived being turned to stone in that Blue Devil story is the same reason he survived being turned to salt here...because he's not a real person.
Albert then turns the teller who was transmuted into gold by Alvin back into a human, much to his relief and her gratitude.
Notably, Rita Desmond does not appear in this story, and while she was listed as Albert's wife in the 1986 Who's Who issue, she was listed as his ex-wife in the 1990 Who's Who issue. I guess they got divorced off-panel, which isn't completely out of left field (Albert's life is a nightmare), but is disappointing and sad.
And that was the last we saw of either Albert or Alvin for quite a while.
Dr. Curt Engstrom, a scientist from S.T.A.R. Labs, stole the Philosopher's Stone and became a knockoff Dr. Alchemy called the Alchemist in Flash vol. 2 #71-72 (1992-1993), but neither Albert nor Alvin made an appearance.
In Flash Annual #8 (1995), we saw Wally fight Mr. Element (presumably Albert) early in his career as Kid Flash, and then battle Dr. Alchemy (almost certainly Alvin) early in his career as the Flash, but both of those were flashback stories.
In the Life Story of the Flash (1997), Iris/Mark Waid describes Albert as follows: "One of Barry's strangest foes was Mr. Element...or should I say Dr. Alchemy? Cursed with a split personality, Al Desmond constantly shuffled back and forth between two identities, leaving Barry to wonder which he'd face during any given battle: Element, whose ray gun conjured substances out of thin air, or Alchemy, whose Philosopher's Stone could transmute inanimate objects up and down the periodic table."
Weirdly, Iris does not mention that Albert Desmond reformed, became friends with her husband, attended her wedding, and was at this point still reformed. That's a weird detail to leave out of your husband's autobiography.
The next time we saw a Dr. Alchemy in the present was in Flash vol. 2 #152 (1999), when the Dark Flash attacked a Dr. Alchemy with red hair. It seems like this was probably supposed to be Alvin, and, while he had theoretically been destroyed back in Flash vol. 2 #41, there's no particular reason why the Stone couldn't have reconstituted him again.
A Dr. Alchemy also appears in the Flash Secret Files and Origins #2 in 1999, where we saw him teaming up with the Rogues to create Replicant. Since Alvin was the Dr. Alchemy who had a history with the Rogues, this was again probably supposed to be him, but while he had Alvin's curly hair, it was colored black like Albert's. It's a really confusing appearance.
Albert Desmond (for sure this time) appeared in the Flash: Iron Heights in 2001. At this point he had been reformed for 39 real-world years.
So naturally, he's imprisoned in Iron Heights with a 35-year sentence for armed robbery and attempted murder, and the Dr. Alchemy alter is dominant.
No, there is no explanation for any of this.
Wally: Mr. Desmond...Dr. Alchemy, it's the Flash.
Dr. Alchemy: Go away, Wally. I'm reading.
Wally: I can't do that, Al. I need to talk to you.
Pied Piper: Alchemy always freaked us out. Crazy, that guy. We asked him to join the Rogues once and he laughed in our face.
Dr. Alchemy: I'm finally in my element, Wally. Peace and quiet. I wouldn't disrupt it for all the gold in the world. Now leave me be. My book is just getting good.
We do learn in Flash vol. 2 #272 that Dr. Alchemy tried to turn city hall to salt, but that doesn't explain why or how he suddenly un-reformed after such a long time.
Regardless, the next time we see Dr. Alchemy is in Flash vol. 2 #191-193,
An army of gorillas breaks into Iron Heights to rescue Grodd. One of them busts down Dr. Alchemy's door.
Gorilla: RRAAOW!
Dr. Alchemy: I'm trying to finish my book. But you're making such a ruckus. You're upsetting the Philosopher's Stone.
*He transmutes the gorilla to glass*
Dr. Alchemy: Speak no evil, monkey.
He then spends the rest of the gorilla invasion reading his book.
In Flash vol. 2 # 202-206 (2003-2004), a corrupt police scientist named Alexander Petrov uses Mr. Element's gun to frame Captain Cold for a string of murders. When Wally figures this out, Petrov puts on a costume and names himself the new Mr. Element. His time in this role lasts for about five minutes before an irate Captain Cold shows up and kills him.
Dr. Alchemy pops up again in Flash vol. 2 #207 (2004), making a deal with the Rogues:
Captain Cold: I'm not asking you to join us.
Dr. Alchemy: I have no interest in---
Captain Cold: Monetary profit. I know. But we do take a lot of heat off your activities. Most of the jobs you pull--stealing old artifacts, breaking into science labs--they get blamed on us.
Dr. Alchemy: Perhaps, Mr. Snart.
*Axel shows up and disrupts the conversation for a bit*
Dr. Alchemy: You aligned yourselves with a juvenile delinquent?
Captain Cold: He's got enthusiasm. And youth ain't such a bad thing. You've seen what's happened to Captain Boomerang. I'm not asking you for much. Just that, well, we hear rumors that things are about to come down hard. The Flash returning. That's just a normal annoyance. But if our world goes to hell, I just wanna know--can the Rogues count on your support?
Dr. Alchemy: You took care of that pretender for me. Mr. Element was an embarrassment. So...yes. If you need a favor...Dr. Alchemy will be more than happy to make his services available.
Dr. Alchemy will also apparently talk about himself in the third person.
Captain Cold: Here.
Dr. Alchemy: What's this?
Captain Cold: A token of our appreciation, Mr. Desmond.
Dr. Alchemy: You shouldn't have. I do love books. I love them so very much. And a first edition of The Catcher in the Rye. J.D. Salinger....many call him a genius. Others write him off as merely eccentric. They fail to understand...eccentricity is the soul of genius.
Captain Cold (actually smiling!): Words to live by. Welcome to the club, Doc.
Dr. Alchemy cameoed at Captain Boomerang's funeral in Flash vol. 2 #217 (2005), and then appeared in Flash #223 (2005) as part of Rogue War. Captain Cold and Mirror Master pulled him in to their battle against the Flash as reinforcements.
McCulloch: Say hello ta the Doctor.
Dr. Alchemy: Well, yes. I hope this doesn't take all afternoon. I left my Bunsen burners on.
Wally: You're not a lowlife like the Rogues, Mr. Desmond. You don't have to do this.
Dr. Alchemy: Oh, I realize that, Flash. But they've promised me a most unique prize. Your corpse. And dissecting it will open all kinds of doors into the science of acceleration. Maybe I'll write a book. Some nitrous oxide should relax you, Flash. It won't hurt a bit.
Later, he makes this lovely threat:
Dr. Alchemy: You've had your fun, Grodd. But I have work to do. Science to explore.
Grodd: I am a being of science myself, doctor.
Dr. Alchemy: Then let's preserve the specimen. And see what happens when I turn the blood in his veins to formaldehyde.
At this point, Bart shows up to rescue Wally, and that's the last we see of Dr. Alchemy in Rogue War.
Dr. Alchemy also appeared in Gotham Central #29-31 (2005), where he was an irredeemably evil Hannibal Lecter ripoff who was obnoxious to everyone. This story also established that Albert Desmond has decorates in chemistry, biochemistry, and molecular biology.
Dr. Alchemy was not seen again until the 2010 Flash series written by Geoff Johns, where we saw him surrounded by books and wondering if Barry would forgive him for what he did to "her". Because of Flashpoint, we never got to learn what this meant, but we did learn that Albert had been retconned to have been Barry's jerk coworker at the CCPD in the past.
Then Flashpoint happened and Albert was effectively erased from existence. He showed up again in a poorly-written filler arc in 2021, and hasn't been seen since. Poor Albert.
I think @waterwindow's theory that Alvin is the Mr. Element alter made corporeal by the Philosopher's Stone makes a lot of sense. It would explain why the Mr. Element alter seems to vanish entirely, while the Dr. Alchemy alter reappears---and indeed apparently completely takes over the body -- in Geoff Johns' run.
Lisa and Roscoe's Romance (and Messed-Up Revenge Plan)
Behold: all the on-panel interactions we get between Lisa and Roscoe, plus descriptions of their relationship from Barry and the narrator, and some commentary from me:
Flash vol. #1 #250:
Narrator: "That "twirling turkey's" full name is--or was--Roscoe Dillon! And if it doesn't ring a bell, perhaps the curious shape of his tombstone will!
*Lisa stands in front of Roscoe's top-shaped tombstone. He's extremely dedicated to his theme*
Lisa: And I vow to avenge you--an eye for an eye--a tooth for a tooth---a lover for a lover!
Narrator: The girl at the grave is Lisa Snart--younger sister of the notorious Captain Cold! Small wonder, then, that ice played a vital role in her life too--as a champion skater who performed in ice shows all around the world.
Lisa was internationally famous. The woman was incredibly driven. No wonder Barry compares her to Batman in the next issue---that takes a LOT of work and dedication.
*Lisa spins like a top on the ice in front of a crowd, because you can teach yourself how to spin like that in Flash comics.*
Crowd member #1: What an act!
Crowd member #2: How does she whirl so fast?
Crowd member #3: She spins like a top!
Narrator: "Like a top"? Small wonder, since her coach was--the Top!
*Roscoe spins like a top in the same scientifically-dubious way. Apparently it increases his brainpower. Maybe it increased Lisa's brainpower too and that's why she's able to invent all those gimmicked jewels later.*
Roscoe: Like this, baby! You gotta think of yourself as a gyroscope--perfect balance is the key!
Lisa: I understand, Roscoe!
Roscoe would like to remind you that tops are amazing. They're linked up with intricate scientific devices like gyroscopes. Although they've just about been forgotten, they are the basis for some of the most startling advances in science. The theory behind tops gave rise to guided missile systems--to the gyro-stabilizers of ocean liners. And, unless he misses his guess, the same theory will help Lisa reach the top of her profession.
Narrator: That's right--Roscoe Dillon---the treacherous Top--was more than a teacher to Lisa!
*Roscoe dips Lisa--obviously they're about to kiss*
Roscoe: End of the lesson for today--time for recess!
Lisa: Ahh...
Narrator: The romance blossomed for months--but under cover! No one imagined that while the Top was battling his nemesis, the Flash, in Central City, he had a sweetheart who was internationally famous thanks to the extraordinary spinning skills he had taught her---a brilliant career cut suddenly short by the death of the man in her life--an untimely end the Top brought upon himself in attempting to destroy the Fastest Man Alive!
Lisa: No more skating for me---not until Roscoe's death is avenged! And that means--get the Flash where it hurts the most!
It's worth noting that Roscoe didn't die in a battle with the Flash in the traditional sense. He developed telekinetic powers, the two of them battled, and somehow the combination of Barry's speed and his new powers caused his brain to heat up and basically gave him an aneurysm. In effect, it was a bizarre accident that no one could have fully predicted. Not, of course, that that stops Lisa and Roscoe from wanting revenge.
Flash vol. 1 #251:
Barry: When I went over the Top's criminal file, I noticed a very interesting string of seeming coincidences--the Futura Ice Show's out-of-town appearances always coincided with sightings of the Top in the very same cities--almost as if he were following the show--or someone in the show--like a girlfriend.
Iris: So that's your angle--you think the Golden Glider is one of the Futura performers!
Barry: It would help explain the super-ice skates she wears. Plus her use of Cold's freeze-dryer. One of the show's stars is his sister! Uses the name Lisa Star---but her real name is Snart!
This implies a) that Roscoe traveled all over the country to watch Lisa perform, and b) that he somehow did not get arrested while doing so even though people recorded his presence in those cities. That's dedication.
Also, frankly, Lisa probably would have used that stage name even if Len wasn't a criminal. "Snart" is exactly the sort of name you might want to get rid of as soon as possible.
From Flash #300:
Barry again: But as dangerous a foe as Len Snart has proven to be over the years, he never displayed the pathological hatred for me which totally obsessed his younger sister---Lisa Snart--the Golden Glider! At one time she was a world-renowned figure skater travelling all over the country as the star of an ice show by day--while carrying on a torrid secret romance from city to city by night!
The object of her passion--an infamous costumed criminal who just happened to be one of my most cunning long-time foes--one Roscoe Dillon, better known to the rest of the world as the villainous Top!
*Cue panel of Roscoe and Lisa kissing*
Barry: Dillon shared the grim details of his imminent doom with only one person---his grief-stricken sweetheart, Lisa! The final spin for the Top came the following day--as Roscoe Dillon became the first of my personal Rogues' Gallery to die!
*Panel of Roscoe in civilian clothes for once (we almost never see him without his mask in his own body, so this is significant), crying with Lisa*
Barry: But long after his fellow villains had paid their last disrespects to the Top's infamous memory--one mourner kept returning to the site of the grave.
I wouldn't say that the Rogues were disrespectful to the Top at his funeral. They seemed pretty upset about his death until they found out that he had planted bombs around the city posthumously. But I do think Barry tends to be cynical about the Rogues' relationships to one another in a way that's not fully warranted by what we actually see of their interactions on-panel.
*Lisa's standing by Roscoe's grave again. It's still a top, but now it's also shaped like a heart somehow. How either of these graves didn't collapse under their own weight is a mystery for the ages. Or maybe the first tombstone did fall over and this heart-shaped one is a replacement.*
Lisa: I swear that speedster will pay, Roscoe, for what he did to you---to us! The Golden Glider will make Flash rue the day he first put on his running boots!
Barry: That was no idle boast! Armed with a pair of flying ice skates pioneered by her brother, Captain Cold--along with a fantastic arsenal of gimmicked jewels of her own design---she skated her way into a vendetta of villainy!
Flash #301:
Roscoe on the phone with Lisa, talking about Nora Allen while possessing the body of Henry Allen: I keep telling you, we've got nothing to worry about! Even on the off-chance she does become suspicious, the doctor would only tell her she's still disoriented from the crash.
*Lisa presumably says something on the other end*
Roscoe: And I feel the same way, baby! Every time I have to look into the old bag's eyes, I'm really thinking about you--only you! I gotta go now, hon. The witch is expecting me back at her bedside!
Later in the issue, we get a scene between Roscoe and Lisa. The former is possessing the hot body of Barry Allen's dad, and the latter is wearing a red wig and sunglasses (so that no one sees Henry Allen with the Golden Glider and tells Barry about it).
Lisa: How much longer do we wait, baby? When are you going to ditch that social security aged bod and slip into something more our speed?
Roscoe: Like the Flash's body? You always were such a vixen! Patience, Lisa, patience! "Dear Barry's" days as the fastest man alive are numbered. You and I will soon be reunited in our former ecstasy--and Flash will soon be dead--as dead as we left his real father! (Note: Henry and Nora Allen got into a car crash that put Nora in a coma and stopped Henry Allen's heart, allowing Roscoe's ghost to possess Henry's body. Oddly enough, Roscoe didn't orchestrate the accident, and neither did Lisa. It was caused by a teenaged driver who paid more attention to his girlfriend than the road, accidentally crossed the white line, and slammed into the Allens' car.)
Flash #302:
*Roscoe and Lisa are on another date. Roscoe is still in Henry Allen's body plus a fake goatee; Lisa still has the red wig*
Roscoe: You should have seen me, babe! When he revealed his precious "secret", I had to feign the gauntlet of emotions from shock to amazement to actual tears of joy! I was sensational!
Lisa: As long as you convinced him you hadn't the slightest inkling he was the Flash, darling--that's what counts!
Roscoe: *Chuckle* But you were pretty sin-sational yourself today, Lisa---judging by the public outrage you've stirred up!
Lisa: You should've been there, Roscoe! There he was, all ready to grab me and make a super-speed arrest--when bingo, all at once my secret weapon hit him head-on! After that, all he wanted to do was kiss and cuddle! And to be perfectly honest with you, sweets--a bad kisser he definitely isn't! I almost hated to send him away after we ditched the park crowd! I always did think the Flash was kind of cute behind his mask! And that bod of his! Being the world's all-time champion jogger--you can beat it's as lean and fine as it looks! Solid muscle without a milligram of flab!
Roscoe: I'm glad to hear it's in such splendid condition, my dear--for both of us.
I don't know who loves to monologue more--Lisa or Roscoe.
It's also noteworthy that Roscoe apparently isn't bothered at all when his girlfriend talks at length about how hot she thinks Barry is.
Then, at the end of the issue, Roscoe thinks the following to himself:
Roscoe: He already separated me from my beloved Lisa once--the day he killed me in my youthful prime! But I won't let him take her away from me a second time! The Flash is about to find out the man he's been living with was never his father--but his greatest foe--back from the dead! Beware the Top--for he lives again!
This thought balloon, which occurs when Roscoe is completely by himself, is the smoking gun that completely demolishes any possibility that Roscoe was manipulating Lisa (an idea I've seen floating around in some fan circles). If he was manipulating her, he would not then think about how much he loved her to himself when there were no witnesses.
Flash vol. 1 #303:
*Lisa escapes from jail after Flash captured her last issue. As she's escaping, Flash chases after her. Then Roscoe shows up on the scene.*
Roscoe: Tsk tsk! You should be ashamed of yourself, Flash--turning all that speed loose on a woman! And an un-armed one to boot!
Barry: That voice!
Roscoe: Right you are, Speedster--it's dear old dad again! Now, do you unhand Miss Snart the easy way--or do I have to force you the hard way?
*Barry grabs Lisa and starts shaking her---at this point he still believes that Lisa is mind-controlling his father somehow*
Barry: What did you to do him? How has your insidious evil warped my father?
Lisa: R-R-Roscoe! H-H-Help me!
Roscoe: Don't let him shake you up like that, sweetums! Have you forgotten all I taught you?
Barry: ?!? She's spinning out of my grip--like a top!
Roscoe: Ex-cellent, Lisa! Just pretend you're on the ice in front of your adoring public! As for you, "dear son", you won't be in any condition to lay another hand on my larcenous lady! I made this little trinket especially for an occasion like this!
*Roscoe throws a top at Barry*
Barry (thinking): Although poor dad may be dressed like the Top--his aim doesn't even come close! I'll super-speed him to the nearest hospital as quickly as possible!
Narrator: But before the speedster can sprint another step…
*The top electrifies Barry*
Barry: Uhhh!
*Roscoe and Lisa run off together*
Roscoe: It sems you've underestimated me, old foe--just as I used to make the mistake of underestimating you! But times have changed!
Lisa: A lot more than times will be changing around here --real soon! I hope you didn't damage the goods, babycakes!
Roscoe: Not to worry, my precious! The electro-top merely amplifies the natural electrical charge in the human body! After a few minute of staggering around in a daze, he'll be back to normal. And he'll be as mad as a hornet, I trust!
Lisa: He blasted well better be, darling! Half the fun of our diabolic revenge is watching the agony we bring to our flashy foe's face!
*Slightly later in the issue, after Barry has learned that Roscoe's ghost is possessing the body of his dad, one of Lisa's gimmicked jewels shows up in his room*
Lisa: Recognize this voice, Flashy-pants? Roscoe and I figure you've probably doped out what's happened to your old man by now--so we've decided to give you a fighting chance to win him back!
*Barry follows the flying gem to where the villains are hiding*
Lisa: This is the end of the trail, Flash! Your daddy is inside---and he can't wait to see you!…Now that you're here, why don't you take a load off your boots?
Barry: Not a chance, Glider! I figure I'm safer as long as I keep moving!
*Barry is immediately trapped in a convoluted death trap*
Roscoe: That's where you're wrong, speedster--dead wrong! Remember that nasty jolt you got from my electro-top? Aside from knocking you senseless, it also super-charged the negative ions in your body! As you may have guessed, my centrifugal treadmill has been super-charged with positive ions! The result---ionic magnetism so intense not even your speed-charged molecules can resist it! Like it or not, Flash, you're in for the ride of your life--and death!
Roscoe loves to over-explain the science behind his death traps.
Roscoe (to Lisa): Flash doesn't realize the negative ions are putting a heavy strain on his heart!
Lisa (to Roscoe) : Not to mention the tremendous super-speed exertion of the treadmill! All he needs is one traumatic shock to push him over the edge!
Roscoe (to Barry): Oh, Barry-boy! Your daddy has a big surprise for you! This is a loaded .45 automatic I'm pressing against my head! Guess what happens next! You may be the fastest man alive, Flash--you may be able to catch speeding bullets in mid-air--but you are not fast enough to stop this bullet--before it travels from the chamber through the barrel and perforates Henry Allen's head!
*Flash immediately escapes from the trap and proves this wrong.*
Roscoe: Oww! If I didn't see it, I wouldn't believe it! He made the gun backfire!
Lisa: It doesn't matter, Roscoe--look! Our master plan is still paying off! Even though he managed to save his father's body--the combination of the stress and the negative ions were too much for the Flash's heart--
Roscoe: Just like we planned!
Lisa: There, babycakes! There's the proof! The Flash's heart just stopped! His astral body is rising out of him!
*This is in fact happening, though how Lisa can see this I have no idea*
Lisa: This is the moment we've been waiting for! Ditch that flabby white-haired bod, Roscoe! Your sleek new home is now yours for the taking! Roscoe Dillon, you're about to fill the Flash's boots!
*Lisa talks as Roscoe leaves Henry Allen's body, then leans towards the Flash's body under the assumption that Roscoe has now possessed it*
Lisa: Oh, darling! I go breathless just thinking about all the wonderful times we're going to have together. Whisper something sexy to me, baby!
Barry then reveals Roscoe did not, in fact, take his body over, and Henry Allen gets his body back. Lisa goes to jail, and Roscoe…comes back back as a ghost real-world years later under writers who don't understand the character.
It's too bad, because this is a really messed-up, spooky story with great character work for Barry, the elder Allens, Roscoe, and Lisa. It would have been great to see the characterizations of ghost Roscoe and Lisa continue after this, especially since they are a terrifyingly effective villainous duo. But alas, it was not to be.
