If you want to write characters with Cluster B disorders, you can come to this blog to ask any questions and ask if the portrayal of cluster B pds is respectful enough in your writing. Also, you can ask us our opinion on cluster B (coded/implied) characters in media. Just don't be a dick
Non Cluster Bs are allowed to criticize xyz media's portrayal of the disorders but you should listen when we tell you something is or isn't ableist.
Researched self-diagnosis is okay! Not everyone can afford a professional diagnosis.
ABOUT MODS
There's currently 2 active mods on this blog!
Scarlet (signoff: 🦇), he/him, answers NPD and BPD questions
Hal (signoff: 🎞️), he/him, answers mainly HPD questions but is available for NPD and BPD questions as well
(Formerly) Nine (signoff: 🎱), it/its, answered ASPD questions
INBOX RULES
As said above, don't be a dick. Don't try to argue with mods about the usefulness of terms like narcissistic abuse and absolutely don't interact if you're "cluster b critical", that's bullshit.
Don't be racist, transphobic, homophobic, xenophobic, antisemitic, islamophobic, ableist, saneist, kinphobic etc. Also, this is a safe space for xenogender and neopronoun users as well as contradictory label users. Many pw cluster B disorders have a complicated relationship with their identity.
Anon is always on unless someone pisses mods off.
You can send ocs and ask for opinions on them!
RESOURCES
Making villains with cluster B disorders (by mod Scarlet)
Tips for writing characters with NPD (by @narc-rants)
Avoiding stereotypes when writing characters with ASPD (by mod Nine)
(This is the anon with the vague ask from earlier.)
Ok so the protagonist is basically a reclusive workaholic with a daring streak. She's been the protege of a powerful sorceress since she was in boarding school, and she takes her position VERY seriously. She has a lot of pride in her magic, but she can easily lose confidence if she loses even the slightest bit of control over it. It's not uncommon for her to pull all nighters studying, push her body too hard training her magic, or risk her own safety without a second thought to pass an assignment. The last thing she wants is to be deemed incompetent by her sorceress mentor.
It should be noted that the sorceress herself is as benevolent and patient as they come, so these fears are almost entirely unfounded, but they still spring up like weeds anyway.
And yet, despite the protag's deep respect for her mentor, she'll occasionally test the sorceress's benevolence on purpose to gage if it's still safe to be sincere with her. She's the kind of student who will reverently greet her mentor with a bow, and then say that she thinks one of her mentor's lessons is a waste of time. To her face. While smiling.
The protag has several ways of testing other people too. For example, she'll accept pretty much any act of hospitality when visiting someone as a guest. It doesn't matter if she actually wants it or not; she'll say yes to see if the host was truly planning to follow through on their offer, or if they're the type of person to make empty promises to look better.
As far as socializing in general goes, she tends to avoid it unless necessary. It's not that she hates all people, but her craving for belonging often clashes with her reluctance to be controlled. She simultaneously wants and rebels against conformity. So when interacting with people, the protag will be genuinely kind and helpful, even accepting advice here and there, up until she feels like she's being silently judged or manipulated in some way. Then she'll become more stubborn than a mule and preemptively reject them first to protect her pride.
All in all, the protagonist has a good heart and wants to prove to the world (and mostly herself) that she can do great things. It's just that her recklessness, trust issues and identity crisis' make her journey harder to navigate.
Not sure how well I described her here. If needed, I can reply again with a more detailed backstory to paint a clearer picture of her childhood, but any feedback would be gratefully appreciated.
That seems like good representation to me👍I can relate to her character.
Hai! I wanted to ask about your opinion on Ivan from Bad Things. The community surrounding the game has collectively (to some extent) agreed that he has BPD but it was never confirmed/stated in game. (unrelated but I find myself relating to him and I think I might have BPD) I'm not exactly sure how to describe him so I'll just put some things from the wiki (sorry if its not enough info)
-" The core motivation behind many of his actions has to do with his strong desire to leave a “legacy.' "
-"He is very attached to Andrew, his best friend, and always has his back, often offering to help him with his games and other issues. Despite their disagreements, the two are able to reconcile through discussion. Ivan can see past Andrew’s poor wording and understand the intentions behind them."
-"Ivan is shown to behave impulsively and insecurely. His flaws show the most when faced with conflict, as shown in his arguments with Andrew. His insecurities also make him highly sensitive to criticism, often taking it to heart and growing bitter as a result."
Yea, that sounds like bpd to me. Though I think he is also strongly npd flavored.
Hi! I'm currently writing an AO3 fic about a main protagonist with bpd. I'm doing a lot of research to portray them respectfully, but since this will be my first time writing said character, I'm worried about missing something. Would it be better if I didn't tag said character as having bpd to avoid misrepresentation? Or should I just do it to avoid risking bpd erasure?
The situation you're describing here is. Vague. To say the least. Maybe you could tell me a bit more about the character and I'll see if I can catch any things that could be potentially harmful/stereotypizing.
Noel from rtc is a big candidate. I relate to them so much because I always lament over the way my life isnt nearly as exciting as it should be and that im not famous...I really want to be famous and admired siiiigh😔
Another one would be like Protag from ninah probably that guy has the internal torment and daddy issues characteristic to transgender men with npd So. Yea
The last one hmmm I'd go with Janice from mean girls idk I just feel it. Maybe because shes literally me
All of the links below are either resources, research, and/or tips/help for people with NPD.
Join our discord server here!
Found any outdated links, or any links that include misinformation? Please let me know!
✦ Resources/Miscellaneous
Some NPD ( Narcissistic Personality Disorder ) terms: Narc-Supply: The material ( compliments, attention, praise, + etc )... – @delphientropy on Tumblr
Narc Supply – clusterrune on Tumblr
How to deal with Jealousy
BPD and NPD; Key similarities and differences
✦ About NPD
Greenberg's NPD subtypes: The Covert Narcissist
Narcissistic highs vs Narcissistic crashes
Delusions and NPD
Narc abuse and why its bullsh*t
Steele's notes on NPD
Narcissistic Personality style VS disorder | haunted selves
Frequently asked questions
Being in a relationship with someone with NPD
✦ Diagnostic Criteria
NPD Diagnostic Criteria - kindnessoverperfection
Official Diagnostic criteria - shitborderlinesdo
Explanation of the Diagnostic criteria - mischiefmanifold
✦ Recovery Resources
(Book) Borderline, Narcissistic, and Schizoid Adaptations: The Pursuit of Love, Admiration, and Safety: Greenberg PhD, Dr Elinor
(Book) Rethinking Narcissism: The Secret to Recognizing and Coping with Narcissists: Malkin, Dr. Craig
(Article) 10 Stages in the Treatment of Narcissistic Disorders by Dr. Elinor Greenberg
(Website) Narcissismselfhelp.com
✦ NPD safe blogs/Informational Blogs
@enigma-in-reality
@yourlocalnpd
@ndcultureis
@narcissisticpdcultureis
@hammersys
@clusterrune
@hauntedselves
Is this list missing something? Please let me know in the comments, or send an ask!
BEFORE YOU COMMENT:
Everybody can use my resources, but keep discourse/syscourse out of our comments. Our anti-endo tag exists for personal interaction. Asks are anti-endo, etc, but as I've said, resources are for all.
You dont have to answer this if you dont wanna, but do you have any tips on writing a character with npd?
-✨️🍄✨️(<- is that taken yet?)
hey dont worry! im always down to answer questions like these
dont make them a caricature of the disorder. remember that pwnpd arent all just self absorbed assholes that kiss the mirror every day
look at the dsm criteria! yes obviously parts of the dsm are flawed, but this can be a way for you to get an idea on how they may act
keep in mind the different ways that npd can present (grandiose and vulnerable), although everyone with npd have both. theres also subtypes like communal, cerebral, somatic, malignant, etc that may be helpful to look into
remember the hypersensitivity to criticism bit - i find that a lot of people forget this for some reason. it can appear in a bunch of different ways, whether it be embarrassment or shame or anger
dont make having npd be their entire personality. while it is narcissistic PERSONALITY disorder and it affects/is a huge chunk of their personality, that doesnt mean they cant have things like interests, likes/dislikes, traits outside of npd
here are some a good resources you can look at as well! and if anyone would like to add things, feel free to rb/comment with your own thoughts
genuinely whats the difference between npd and hpd bc i read about both and im confused af
hey, thanks for the ask! it's a common question, but a good one, too. a lot of people get the two confused, me (🎞️) included, and i have both. despite that, or maybe because of it, i might confuse the traits of one with another, my bad if that happens.
by the DSM-V, HPD is defined as a "pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking", while NPD is defined to show a "pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy". on paper, these disorders can be vastly different, but in practice, the lines are often blurry.
the most obvious trait that both personality disorders share is that both seek attention and external validation. keep in mind that everyone is different, but speaking from my example, the goal that i seek in the attention is different, even if both of them go hand in hand in my case. "NPD attention" is, to me, admiration or praise. i seek attention for achievements, things i put much work into, something that'll earn me compliments. while that does automatically add onto my fix for my HPD as well, "HPD attention" is less focused on praise. people often say that the difference is that pwHPD don't care if the attention is "good" or "bad" while pwNPD do, and while that is often true, it's not always the case. pwHPD may also prefer being seen in a certain light as well, even without NPD. regardless, HPD-focused attention often does focus less on praise, and more on approval, quantity, and a rather by-any-means type of approach.
a concrete difference between the two is that pwHPD don't necessarily inherently have low or no empathy like pwNPD do. additionally, pwNPD are less prone to playing up their feelings (displaying "shallow" emotions), and they have a sense of entitlement, both of which are less common in HPD. both have intense emotions, an unstable sense of identity and are sensitive to criticism.
please note that i'm speaking from personal experience, and not everything i said might be a 100% accurate. however, that should mostly help differentiate the two.
I wanted to ask this question from since I first saw the blog, but I wasn't sure on how to word it...is there any general advice on how to avoid just making characters with aspd assholes? Because since the traits of the disorder usually make people appear colder or rude, I've caught myself writing my aspd characters as mean and just not cool overall. I'm just trying to encapsulate their symptoms accurately but it always ends up circling back to them being not good people. How to change my approach? What am I doing wrong?
Great question!
Since this is kind of a broad question, my advice is also going to be pretty general as well.
One of the biggest things is actually to not focus too much on the symptoms. I know how easy it can be to laser focus on a certain aspect of a character, but by doing so, it can make them feel one dimensional or caricature-like. It's important to remember that the disorder is only part of the character, and not the character themselves.
Another thing to keep in mind is signs vs symptoms. Just because they have the disorder/symptoms does not mean they'll always present the same way outwardly. It's very common for pwASPD to mask or put on a front, so subtlety in interactions is key. If this is a POV character or a character that we can hear the thoughts of, I can actually see this being pretty fun to play around with.
For characters that are more overt and outward with their symptom expression, it's important to differentiate between "coldness and detachment" and just general asshole behaviours. A character can be uninterested or unempathetic about something while still remaining endearing. It's all a matter of balance and nuance. I'd recommend talking to other writers about this specifically, as it's more of a technical writing issue than character development related. I can also probably do a seperate post on it at some point if anyone finds it interesting enough.
And lastly, there are so many other symptoms outside of detachment that can be used to demonstrate a character's diagnosis. Though it's the most commonly thought of while discussing ASPD, it's not necessarily even the most prevalent. Impulsivity, recklessness, and irritability are all incredibly important parts of the diagnosis that are often overlooked in favour of the more common "pop culture" idea of ASPD. Thorough research on symptoms and presentation outside of popular culture is imperative.
Essentially, balance is key to writing a character with ASPD! Again, I would highly recommend talking to other writers about methods to maintain a balanced character, as this specifically is more of a technical skill than character development, but hopefully this post was somewhat informative or helpful to anyone reading it.
Thank you anon for your question, I enjoyed answering it!
Thought that we should probably start working on the resources for this blog, so I'm going to start with a post about making villains or antagonists with cluster B disorders since it's a topic worth discussing.
DISCLAIMER! I am not a psychologist nor a psychiatrist, I've based this post on my experiences and research I've done to understand myself better.
First of all, if your villain is evil just to be evil....don't do that. Just. Don't.
People with cluster B disorders have been demonized in cinema since the beginning of movie culture, especially in action and horror movies. Every villain is a psychopath, a narcissist, a sociopath, an attention-seeker, unstable emotionally and G-d knows what. No redeemable qualities, just pure evil. Most of the time, they're also just. Born like that. Unless the writer wants to pretend to know shit about the thing they're portraying, then the character might have trauma. But of course they still won't get a redemption arc. Are you crazy?! Redemption arc for a traumatized person who developed a disorder that makes it extremely hard to deal with day-to-day life and relationships? Pfftttt, don't be silly.
Having that out of the way, I don't think it's impossible to make cool characters with cluster b pds who aren't good people. Sure, due to the history of demonization and the general stigma surrounding those disorders, you need to pay really good attention to how you deal with it. But that's why this blog exists! So let's get into it.
TRAUMA
Cluster b pds are largely induced by trauma, though there are people who are at higher risk of developing them due to neurological factors.. It's more complex than just being 'born' with certain disorder, it is both environmental and psychological factors that lead to having any cluster B pd. They are disorders born from childhood and teenagehood longtime trauma, since they shape a warped perception of oneself and the world surrounding them.
If you are planning to make a villain with cluster B pd, ask yourself - what caused this?
A lot of people with cluster B disorders that I know, including myself, are the way we are because of growing up in abusive households. There are factors that can make it worse, like longtime bullying in school.
The need to be in the spotlight, to be constantly reassured, craving for attention, indifference to other people, lack of empathy and substance abuse can all be results of parental abuse. When you never feel appreciated and are constantly made to feel guilty for just being you, it might mess with your perception of yourself. You will need constant reassurance, praise later in your life. ...That's my experience at least.
COMPLEXITY AND NUANCE
So, due to their life experiences, your character now has a cluster B disorder. You want them to be a villain. How to not be shitty about it?
Nuance is the most important thing. You don't want your character to feel like a bland caricature, do you? You don't want it to seem like you put a character with a pd in your story just to seem edgy, right?
First of all: You need to give them motivations. What do they wish to achieve? Why do they hate or why are they obsessed (or why they feel any other emotion) towards the hero of your story? What will it give them?
Secondly, you need to show that they are human too. They are allowed to have emotions and feelings. Maybe they want to win because they are so desperate to prove that they are worth something? Maybe they need to assert their dominance to feel less insecure? Allow them to be vulnerable, to have moments where they can just...be themselves. Cry or break down even for a second, even if they'll regret it later, even if they feel a fool for breaking the character like that.
THE ENDING
Not the ending of this post yet, lol. The ending of your story.
Making an irredemable evil villain who ends up miserable might not be the best idea. Pure evil disney villains are cool yada yada, but try to be respectful for a second.
Why is the character that's been through so much shit in their life not allowed to get better, to apologize and redeem themself? Yep, it'd be way better. Of course doing bad things isn't justified by their disorder, that's not where I'm going. They should take accountability and grow as a person so that they can be better, not just for the people around them to deal with, but for themselves, so that they can live a fulfilling life even despite their issues.
WHY WE LOVE GOOD VILLAINS
Oooooh I love villains. My cluster B friends love villains. Everyone loves villains. It's because we can actually see our own reflection in them. Their issues, the way they're so desperate for other people to see them as all high and mighty, we relate to it. And especially if said villain has trauma. If said villain tried to be good, but failed. If said villain is complex. We're all for that. We feel the villain. That's why not cartoonishly evil ableist stereotypes of villains are actually beloved in the community. They are us. We are them. They are complex beings with their own problems just like us! Because cluster B people are allowed to express ourselves and see ourselves in not only good characters but also characters that kinda suck with their morals and actions.
CONCLUSION
Writing good villains with cluster B disorders isn't impossible! It's actually amazing, as many of us find comfort and joy in them. It's just important to remember that we aren't the devil incarnate - we are vulnerable people who want to carve a space for ourselves in a world that failed us. Don't be afraid to show all kinds and all faces of people with cluster B pds.
I hope it was a somewhat coherent guide, though I felt like I was just rambling most of the time...Maybe the other mod will have something to add on. I'm not that well-versed in english and I'd appreciate any and all constructive feedback on this. Just don't be a dick. That's it for this lesson, cya!
do not send me asks to my main about this blog. if you have genuine concerns, do it off anon and with proof on this blog. anything else gets blocked and deleted. i thought the community on tumblr knows better than to be this saneist and ableist. thank you.
