So interesting how after the met gala articles everything changed now we get almost a daily reminder that H has a girlfriend lol. We have more h+k content than Hudcon content...and we are talking about 2 co stars that are the main leads..and the whole
I'm not going to say he didn't look happy yesterday in some moments because he did and I'm so happy for him...but I can't shake the feeling that he wasn't fully himself.. first of all C should have been there and getting the chance to celebrate the historic wins. He is with H the main character...
It was so anticlimactic when he stood up to get his well deserved award, and nobody is saying you need french kiss your girlfriend on live television.. but seriously
- no hug , no kiss , not even a simple cute kiss on the cheek ..no it was a TAP ON THE SHOULDER... on top of it he basically was reheating his own Valentine's day post nachos.
What I'm trying to say is we see Hudson being so comfortable around other people ( just looks at the pictures with Sophie) .
He was hugging and close with C on live television when C was hosting SNL.
But why is every interaction between h+k so awkward, and again there is no chemistry and I'm allowed to point things out...
And the truth is he acts completely different with C ..and I'm not afraid to say it because people come on here and trying to silence us for simple observing.
And the fact that the way h+k act around each other is the bare minimum and is called perfect relationship and he is happy but at the same time clear romantic undertones with H+C is simple labeled as only platonic bestie's.
so incredibly proud of the cast and crew of heated rivalry. a complete sweep at csa is insane but so well deserved.
but most importantly, to hudson. he brought shane to life with his performance. gave him so much depth and personalization. his portrayal of shane made hr the show it is today. the youngest person to ever take this award home and he’s only 6 months into his career. and he did so at a ceremony dedicated to canadian talent, on home soil, and for an industry he has worked tirelessly for. he deserves this recognition so much.
and ofc to his best friend. soulmate. perfect on screen partner. and other half of this award, connor storrie. for we wouldnt have shane if we didnt have ilya.
The difference is just loud and clear. I just know that people still going to find excuses.
How is it that the body language when he is with C is completely different, his eyes are sparkling and he is at peace.
Even after H won his first acting award, no hug , no kiss nothing. Just basically reheating his own nachos the whole thank you speech towards her was just the Valentine's day post with a different wording.
Anyways congratulations H and HR ❤️ well deserved.
I think I’ve just found my new favourite tag *cough* please be nasty about her *cough*
You know what? Fuck it. I don’t think there’s anyone here who’d turn on me because of this. And if there is, good fucking riddance.
I hate this. I hate this entire fucking thing with the passion of a thousand suns. I hate that H seems to be stuck in this toxic whatever """relationship""" for some reason. I hate that it could be because of some bullshit PR move. I hate that it could be because he doesn’t want to appear disloyal. I hate that it could be because he doesn’t know how to be in a non-toxic relationship since it’s all his ever known. I hate how she treats him. I hate how she’s so fucking weird about the very thing that’s been so fucking good for him. I hate that I don’t think she loves him but she still keeps him wrapped around her little finger. I hate that it’s a fucking possibility no matter how minuscule that she fucking baby trapped him. I hate that he wouldn’t leave her if this were the case. I hate that C is stuck in this messy ass cycle when he doesn’t deserve it. I hate that H doesn’t either. I hate that the general public is still homophobic at large. I hate that the boys can’t be with each other in the way they want to right now. I hate that she’s in the fucking middle and not understanding at all. I hate that H doesn’t have anybody around him who can support him in the way T and B are able to for C. I hate that even in the best case scenario of this being the final appearance of a soon-to-be ex, H’s big night will still be marred by discussion about her. I hate that they will be nasty to us because of this. I hate that it’s already happening in my inbox. I hate that this affects me as much as it does. I hate that I’m on my period right now and crying as I write this out. I hate it all so fucking much and I don’t know what to do about it.
Maybe it was a good thing I was shadow banned before this because I don’t know what I would have done differently if I weren’t. But I want to let you all know that I don’t know if I’ll be answering anything to do with her at all for the time being. I’m definitely not answering anything more at all today. I don’t know what tomorrow will bring. But I wanted to let you all know where I’m at right now.
Instead of getting Hudcon healings and us celebrating HR and Hudson success. We are about to witness another desperate attempt to show us the non existent chemistry between h+k...one day before pride month.
I've gone through many celebrity crush phases in my life, and Christian Bale was high on my list in high school through college. Because of this I went to see movies I wouldn't normally go see because he was in them. One of those movies was The Prestige. It's a movie starring Christian Bale and Hugh Jackman as rival magicians who spend years trying to outdo the other with the perfect magic trick. There's lots of plot twists, which is why the common refrain throughout the movie is "Are You Watching Closely?" Everything is revealed in the end if you were paying attention. That's how I feel about Hudcon and the constant need people feel for distracting from their relationship. However, if you're looking closely there are too many overlapping patterns that are hard to ignore.
I had never really intended to write posts on my blog when I started it, but when all of that C/F mess started back in January, I had to get all my thoughts together and one of my first posts was this one.
Writing that post helped me put things in perspective and I've been off and running ever since. I didn't think it was possible for people to turn H/K into C/F 2.0, but they have, and I'm starting to see the parallels and patterns from earlier this year and it's utterly bizarre.
The Patterns: After a while those of us who never bought into the gossip about C/F started to notice a pattern emerge with this narrative.
After a Hudcon moment, either at an event or both of them receiving praise or accolades, a BS story would run about C/F. Then, usually Hudson would post something, or we'd get Hudcon content from some other source, and everything would reset again. Rinse and repeat.
The "moments" when Connor and F were at the same events were blown out of proportion and made to seem more than what they were. Work events that they were both at with other people turned into endless "hard launches" when there were logical explanations as to why they'd be at the same place and it was never because they were there as a couple.
Everything about these "moments" were presented in a way to get an immediate reaction from you, so that you wouldn't take a closer look. For example, people acting like F and Connor being at Paris Fashion Week and staying at the same hotel meant they were there "together", even a few crappy media outlets framed it this way. The reality is they were both there with Robbie and they were all there for YSL. All you had to do was look closer but during this time period everyone just took everything at face value with no nuance.
Now that we've had a refresher on that C/F cycle from hell, let's move onto the new one we've seemed to enter with H/K.
It seemed like the stans invested in C/F and F himself needed to rely on that rinse and repeat cycle, because there truly was never anything but speculation, rumor, and innuendo to go on. Everything was an exaggeration of the truth and relied on your gut reaction to those "moments". I think people got lulled into a false sense of security where H/K are concerned because it's a "real relationship" but honestly, it's like they're using the C/F playbook and it's even worse in my opinion because it's supposed to be a real relationship not a made up rumor.
Parallels:
Hudson and K moments tend to happen either before or after an event when speculation around the nature of Hudcon's relationship gets loud, usually based on Hudcon's behavior themselves. After Hudcon SNL, K is with Hudson at the VF After Party. Now after the Met Gala, we're suddenly getting H/K content from Vancouver before the CSAs. A different kind of rinse and repeat, and one that's harder to pull off because Hudson and Connor's behavior at SNL/VF Silver Carpet/Met Gala is hard to overshadow with half assed attempts to push H/K.
The "moments" with Hudson and K are worse, because with C/F people were working off of nothing to try and make it appear they were together. With Hudson and K, they are supposed to be in a "long term" relationship and yet every moment we've been privy to between them whether public on a Silver Carpet in Hollywood or private on a couch in Vancouver, gives the same tepid energy. The energy never gives attentive/romantic so drawing attention to it seems to be counterproductive to the narrative that's supposed to be presented and pushed.
Again, these "moments" are presented to get a reaction without taking a closer look. An example of this I talked about in February was the V-Day IG story. Initially we're all supposed to look at that post as confirming/hard launching his relationship with K. It's V-Day so it's got to be special right? Except when you look closer you realize Hudson added Connor at the top of the collage in the story and circled a heart around his head. Many of the moments with H/K involve Connor because Hudsom makes sure they do, and that deserves a closer look.
Now the parallels of H/K content with C/F content aren't a perfect 1:1 comparison, nor are they under the same circumstances. One "relationship" was purely rumor and speculation. The other is allegedly the longest "long term" relationship ever. However, the thing they have in common is that they both illicit the same negative emotions of dread and dooming in this Fandom. Both narratives are designed to suck the joy out of Hudcon (if you let it, don't let it) and distract you from that relationship. Now what's odd about that is that if Hudson and Connor are just two costars who happen to be best friends as well, why would their friendship be a threat to any other alleged relationships? We know why but let me get on to yesterday's shenanigans.
The Longest Day Ever:
So, when I took that mini break a few weeks ago, that basically amounted to a 24-hour break, I missed Kalem posting that couch picture of Hudson and K. Then people realized that this picture was on the same day as the group "ice cream date" that Hudson and K were on with their friends, that was posted by Hudson's friend Samantha. Then yesterday Samantha posts a "vlog" in which it's shown that Hudson's friends apparently surprised him at home before going for this ice cream field trip. Then DM decides to post a video of Hudson and K walking together in another on this same day. We know it was all on the same day because Hudson's outfit is the same throughout. That's a long ass day 🤣.
There are several things that stand out about that Day's Events and the way they've been shared.
Vancouver Friend Group: This group of friends moves weird. I'm sorry I'm not going to sugar coat it. When Hudson and Connor were hanging out with his Actor friends on NYE, they posted videos and pictures they took during the evening at the Go Kart event, then at the big dinner and that was it. No dragging out the time they spent with them weeks after the fact. The way this one day was dragged out and posted is weird. Because this surprise/ice cream party was two weeks ago and that "vlog" was posted yesterday and the video of Hudson and K walking was yesterday. It would seem logical to post anything related to that day the same time the Ice Cream picture and couch picture were posted. I'm not going to say any more about this group, but this particular day made them all look a little sus.
Surprise: This one is interesting because if Hudson was coming back to Vancouver, I would assume that he would inform his "gf" and other friends when he'd be back in town. When you're back in town, you let people know and you link up if you have the time. These are all people he knows including his "gf", so what was the surprise? Why was it needed? Was there someone there he didn't think could make it? It just seems odd, also how long has it been since he's seen these people again that includes his gf that would necessitate a surprise get together.
The Walk: This month started out with accounts that Hudson and Connor were with each other all night at the Met Gala and when they weren't, they were looking for each other. We have pictures of Hudson looking at Connor like he hung the moon and resting his head on Connor's shoulder like he was recharging. We have accounts of their After Party shenanigans that went on into the early morning. Accounts of holding hands, sitting in laps, and bathroom breaks together. We have pictures of Met Gala selfies alone in a bathroom, and a picture Hudson posted of Connor bending over with his mouth open under a faucet in a pose deemed suggestive enough by Tumblr to smack it with a Mature label. And of course, that "walk of pride" Hudson took back to his hotel sans most of his outfit from the evening before. After all of that we're supposed to be moved by a quick video of Hudson and K from behind where we can't see their expressions looking like the Golden Girls on a stroll? I really don't understand the logic. However, what this video reminds me of is another one that raggedy DM posted.
I had seen the video of Connor, F, and Tayler on Twitter before DM posted it. It was clearly taken without their knowledge, and it was no big deal, just all of them walking. F puts his hand on Connor's back briefly, as if to steady Connor when he was walking on some uneven ground and that was it. However, that video, and F's response 🙄was enough to send this Fandom into a C/F hell cycle we're still trying to shed ever since. This video DM posted of Hudson and K gives similar vibes. It's taken from behind, presumably without their knowledge, and it just looks like two friends walking. However, DM would have you believe that this video is confirmation of the greatest love story ever told to combat "rumors" that no one was spreading. It's also strange she claims she's had this video for a while and then posted it after Samantha posted her vlog. Why hold on to that video and who did she get it from since she claims fans sent it in? Just messy behavior from an obnoxious person who knows nothing. We've seen every picture or Hudson sighting have the "Was K with Him?" question attached to it over the past few weeks. So, it's odd that when there was actually a video of him with K, we're just seeing it now. So much drama for a video that amounts to nothing but a walk lacking any romantic chemistry.
We Outside: After the longest day ever, we got pictures and video various fans posted this week of Hudson, still in Vancouver. Again, it all appears to be on the same day since he's wearing the same outfit in all the pictures and video. What's interesting is Hudson got the label of "Community Boyfriend" again for these pictures. This is due to the fact that Hudson tends to lean in with his arm around people's waist, and make it seem like he knows these people he's just met. Nothing seems awkward even though these are strangers. Now for all the people who claim that some couples are just private, and don't do PDA, and Hudson and K aren't like that. Then why is it that Hudson can look like everyone else's boyfriend in a picture (including Connor's) but with his actual "gf" it looks stiff/staged. Y'all can make up all the reasons you want about their behavior, but knowing how touchy-feely Hudson is, (wrapping his leg around the Prime Minister after meeting him for the first time), he's stiffness with his "long term" gf stands out.
Look Closely: I brought up the C/F pattern to remind us we've played these games before of being told what to think, rather than taking a closer look at what's being presented. You don't have to agree with me and my mutuals about the nature of Hudcon's relationship, however there is a weird theme that has persisted of needing to amplify Hudson and Connor being attached to other people to distract or diminish their bond with each other.
Class Project: I said months ago that presenting K publicly at VF was like a class project that should've been done weeks ago but was completed at 3 in the morning the day the project was due. The execution fell flat, mostly due to Hudson's unwillingness to play ball and amplify his "long term" relationship over his "private friendship". I don't know if I still agree that K is a buffer and a friend helping Hudcon so that people don't stick their nose to deep into Hudcon's relationship. This is because H/K is being pushed too hard to downplay Hudcon not protect it. I guess we'll see.
Final Thoughts: People enjoy unnecessary drama, especially on Twitter. CSA is giving out some Awards tonight before the ceremony tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing the Ladies of Heated Rivalry, like Sophie and Ksenia who are also nominated. Heated Rivalry could win all of the awards it's nominated for and even if it doesn't, the visibility of this Queer story is important. People should focus on that because Heated Rivalry, its success and its accolades have nothing to do with a tattoo artist in Vancouver. If a small group continues to make it about her, we'll continue to comment, so if you don't want to get your panties in a bunch because you don't like what some of us say, leave her unperceived. Lastly, correct me if I'm wrong Season 2 is still going to start production this summer, right? Nothing is stopping Hudcon's friendship and relationship nor their work on Heated Rivalry. So, pop some champagne and get excited.
Let me get this straight a couple that is apparently in a long term relationship one of them isn't famous and doesn't want to be in the public eye at all ..gets pushed unto us over and over again. DM is constantly reminding us that the couple is strong and so in love with each other. K isn't famous nor is she interacting with the fandom or has anything to do with HR... So why is DM even talking about her like she is famous?! And why do we need to care about her when she said herself she doesn't want any of this. Make it makes sense.
Meanwhile C and H are both in the Public eye and everything around the
" friendship" is so secretive both can't even arrive and leave a event/party together. Always getting separated., we are lucky when we get a picture of them together.. and we are talking about 2 co stars that are part of the most successful new show . And yet we are always need to manifest a interaction because we get basically the bare minimum because everything else is hidden from us.
How on earth is a friendship moving like this ?? Are you kidding me ..
I'm also not afraid to say that everytime H is around K and his Friend's he is a completely different person, his body language is closed off and his eyes aren't sparkling.
No matter how much h+k is getting pushed it doesn't work when we can easily see the difference in the way he is around C.
When he is with C he is always smiling, his eyes are sparkling and his body language is at peace.
And at this point it really is just embarrassing to watch, the chemistry that doesn't even exit in the first place can just magical appear.. no matter how much a stupid gossip page is claiming how strong that relationship is , when in reality both look miserable...
If this was really a secure strong relationship you don't need to remind us it's still going strong after apparently some nonsense rumors lol ..
And if his team and his so called friend's sending stuff about them to DM at least give them content that makes them look like a happy couple.
A wish version of Shawn Mendes and camila cabello zombie walk doesn't look convincing to me lol.
it's also always days before H is having a big career step that K is getting pushed unto us.
- Oscars
- met gala comment
- now him winning a big acting award.
I'm really just so tired of the nonsense.. I want to celebrate the HR success and H big moment but no apparently the most important thing right now is to let people know that his " relationship" is going strong and he is definitely not in love with his co star ...so embarrassing for all party's involved
I truly can't stop laughing honestly no matter how much h+k is getting pushed the chemistry between ain't there. It's honestly embarrassing at this point. I have never seen 2 people look so miserable. The difference in his body language when H is with C. This is ain't moving me
a sort of personal view on the friendship vs queer debate with hudcon
disclaimer: I can't emphasize enough how much this is meant as an opinion and a very personal perspective on the connection, vibe and feelings I perceive from our fave duo. Under a cut as well because reasons. Some parts I already discussed with friends and beloved people, some who are fans of the show and some who have seen it maybe once and just enjoyed it, some who are at the very least a little aware of their dynamic outside the show as well.
First and foremost, ( also a disclaimer I guess ) I always try really hard not to project my own ( life ) experience on other people, especially people I don't know well, or strangers, especially when it comes to queer experiences. Because everyone is different, everyone has different values and boundaries, and unfortunately everyone's experience is shaped by circumstances, environment, support etc. So I really do try to take everything at face value, especially with celebrities. I hate, and don't analyze people's sexuality, it's not my business and I frankly don't care. On top of that fame, and being in the spotlight can make people act differently, it can distort who they truly are and what they feel, and it can add a layer of unsafety that is really difficult to cope with.
( Unfortunately, we live in a world where not only the political climate is awful in most places across the globe, but also we are not in a world where people can be truly themselves. We're definitely also in at a stage where people are scrutinized in detail, worse than ever before thanks to social media, where cancellation, threats, loss of livelihood, can happen in the blink of an eye. Where being queer becomes A Thing that you are in they eyes of many, and where the label defines you, even though it shouldn't .. So that does not help with living your truth.)
Some background: I'm queer, as is my husband, and we have been together for decades at this point. Moved from bestest of friends, to dating, to open relationship, to being in a poly partnership, to monogamy where we are happy and settled in for many years now.
I have been, and still am, in predominantly queer spaces, intensely, for decades as well. My friends and close circle are all queer. Bro, I have seen things... I'm from an era and from such a small area, that the only queer spaces and hangouts we had was a dark and damp underground basement thing, only on Friday evening, where you needed a password to get in. Our only safe space was that, or outside, in certain areas, and it was difficult sometimes, being 14 - 15 - 16 years old and to no be able to be yourself except for 1 evening for a few hours.
Then as we got older we got to the actual clubbing in the bigger cities, into the drag scene, black nights with bdsm vibes, the works. All that to say, I have seen my friends, my gays, thems and theys, and everything in between, move through relationships and situationships, and hooking up phases, find partners and lose partners, settling down and breaking up.
I've seen best friends hook up one evening, and never hook up again and be like: hm oops? yeah that was not smart, let's not. I've seen people who outright hated each other make out freaky style on the dancefloor, and never speak of it again. I've seen all genders have their first queer experiences, some never to go back to it ever again, some who have found their true self. I've see countless bi, pan, gay awakenings up close, in and out of the club scene.
All that to say, friends, and especially best friends, as I have personally experienced in my own spaces, move differently than heteronormative friendships, and I will fully acknowledge that. My personal experience is that we were more free, more expressive with our affections, and yes, sometimes that included making out for no reason, touching, lap sitting, sharing used gum, sharing drinks. Because those people are your chosen people, very often the only people that feel safe, that are ride or die, and the only family many of us had. And yes, soul family adjacent even, the actual ride or dies.
In my humble opinion, I'm not seeing that with Hudcon, and I don't believe it is just a friendship that they have and are experiencing.
Seeing people, especially straight people make comments like "Well, look how goofy they are, and playful. Like besties and/or brothers. I'm like that with my bff too!" makes me feel some type of way. I can accept goofy, unhinged bestie dynamics absolutely. I can accept intimacy with your bff for sure. I've sat on my bff's lap for nights on end, I've seen him naked tons of times, we made out even. But when people look at pics and videos of us, regardless of the unhinged things we do in them, it's giving "y'all are insane wtf" vibe. Nobody ever thought we were crushing on each other, or held romantic feelings, nobody saw devotion, heart-eyes, sexual tension, physical dependency, pure adoration etc. We were not into each other, and it showed.
It's not only friendship that the guys are allowed so showcase and experience in plain view in the media that I see with them.
If it was only that, sure. If it was just during promo for the show, sure. But it's a long, long list of things that have been perceived. Some things you can't act and pretend, I'm sorry I don't care how good of an actor you are. You also can't act physical and sexual attraction, and so much of what has happened was noticed only in hindsight.
Fanservice is doing something for an x amount of time to serve the fandom for the specific purpose of fueling interest and engagement for that particular piece of media. It begins at a point and ends at a point.
This dynamic has NOT stopped being this way, still, and it began before there were fans to serve.
I dislike the friendship angle for them specifically so much, because it just diminishes what they clearly have to "bros being bros" when it's so much more, and just diminishes the very valid feelings of exploring your sexuality, FINALLY meeting that ONE person that makes you feel so good it shatters whatever brainwashing you have about sexuality and LOVE, and reduces that bond to something every run of the mill hetero friendship between guys is.
I also dislike the "why can't men not be affectionate with other men," a sentiment that has been expressed by both of them on some level as well. And I agree with them wholeheartedly, and they should be able to, and be allowed to do so. But we have examples for beautiful friendships between men, celebrities, that are long lasting, deep, and affectionate. And none of them moved like they did, in media or in candid settings... Again if it was just the physical affection, it would not turn heads the way it does.
Yes, platonic love is important, I would argue it's even more important than romantic, because for queer people platonic love is your chosen family in most cases, but it can absolutely exist TOGETHER. They can and are best friends, yes. They can and also WANT to be together in all the ways, and it shows in my opinion, and they should be allowed to explore that in every facet they feel comfortable with.
It truly amazes me that a show like HR that celebrates queer joy and at the same time is showing you how it effects people when everyone just has heteronormativity glasses on... Has now solo fan bases and a h+k fan base ( lol) that is going around trying to police us in our spaces what we can and can't say. Meanwhile these fandoms can just go around and spread all the nonsense and that is apparently ok.
All the ridiculous rumors people are spreading about them on a daily
- Connor having a bf and at the same time sleeping with everyone in Atlanta
- Hudson engagement and wedding ceremony soon
And the worst thing is that some stupid people run with it...
Also using H comment constantly against us isn't the gotcha moment you think it is. When he never mentioned hudcon nor Connor.
Not to mention all the romantic undertone stuff that keeps on happening with H+C isn't even fiction lol. So why are you mad at us for??
I just wanna give a big shout-out to the whole hudcon nation here on Tumblr @readingkat @afro-star @christinaxlr8 @misssassy56 @brazilianwolfbird @hollanov26 @huddyconniebuttbabies .. and of course a shout-out to all these other great Hudcon blogs ...
I only joined the HR and Hudcon fandom at the beginning of 2026 honestly best decision ever .. and here on Tumblr it really is a safe space..and I love how no matter what is happening in the Hudcon universe positive or negative here on Tumblr people always come around with great takes , great analyzing and just keeping the Hudcon nation together even when we are sometimes getting harassed on here .. we still keep going ..
I'm really looking forward to the next months of chaos, happiness and even when it goes bad again I just know that we have a great community here and we can talk about everything.. and aren't alone ❤️❤️❤️
Hudson and Connor make me believe that true love still exists in this world.
Because it's the way they speak of each other so fondly
The way they look at each other so tenderly
The gentle touches, waist grabs, back caresses, tight hugs, cheek to cheek poses
The bright smiles that light up only with each other's presence
It's their freak4freak dances, shared clothes, shared tattoos, shared interests, shared changes in life
It's the "Shane and Ilya are for the public, Connor and Hudson are for themselves", as Jacob Tierney wisely said.
If we have so many evidences of their love, through every interview or even their sweet and flirtatious comments on social media, I imagine how much more they don't share with the public, how much more intense and passionate towards each other they are in private.
But maybe my favorite thing about them is how protective they are, how they find peace in each other's presence. They are the emotional support person for one another, amidst the chaos their lives have become.
They found their "cottage" in each other's hearts 🩷
✨ This was inspired by this post of our amazing @readingkat, who had the idea to start a new tag to spread more positivity in this fandom. Here I'm sharing some of my favorite things about hudcon, and I'm excited to see what are the other wonderful thoughts y'all have about them 🥰
I'm already so annoyed with everything and it's not even Sunday... All these so called insider going around and trying to create drama and negativity.. I truly don't want Sunday to be a PR nightmare and that the only talk coming out of the night is h+k trying to convince the world of the perfect love story.. as if the Oscar party embarrassment wasn't enough.
All I want is that HR gets a win and Hudson gets his well deserved win. And that Connor is attending as well.. and we all can have some queer joy right before pride month.. a perfect way going into June. This is all what I asked for. PLEASE..
I hate these wannabe blind gossip pages.. it's the way people want C to be Ilya so bad. It really gets to a point. Months ago the same page wrote that F+C are a thing.