I'm MT, i've been into TYK and Qiye for a while (still translating it, checkout @lordseventhby7), but i'm currently going crazy about Philippe d'Orléans and everything about him so bear with me
But with something different 👉👈I've been losing my mind about Monsieur, Philippe d'Orléans (brother of king Louis XIV) recently and don't know what to do with all that energy, felt like I need to share it somewhere, but don't feel like starting a new space all over like I did with my previous hyperfixation.
(IDK why, I like fandoms neatly separate and organized, but I need to make some changes in my life, anyway--)
I'm STILL not done with Qiye, I promise the TL is making (slow) progress, but in the meantime I'm gonna go all crazy about french history from the XVII century and likely post in french and english a lot more and yeah, that's it, haha.
In the meantime, here above is my new obsession, Philippe d'Orléans in the center, known to be a debauched sodomite and yet he's so much more than that (I've been DEVOURING BIOGRAPHIES AND EVERYTHING I COULD FIND AUGH), surrounded by three of his most prominent favourites, which... I'll yap about as well in no time.
So yes hi hello MT is going through some recycling and now means Monsieur Time I guess 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Also I've been having some fun with new techniques and I'll probably yap about that as well. And the books I'm reading UNDENIABLY.
A little comic + article about Philippe's shoes, and height, and a bit more! Next two pages below the cut (ainsi que la version française !)
(Analysis here, and français tout en bas)
The other day, at random, I stumbled upon this page which allows us to behold an authentic pair of shoes owned by Philippe, and currently preserved at the Louvres' labs. It is no surprise that the heels are fairly high, as Philippe was indeed famous for his humongous, stilt-like heels. To quote Madame de Montespan, Philippe was "very embarrassed by his small stature, and therefore had two big extra inches added to most of his heels." (😔😔😔)
As it so happens, I am currently in this mood where I feel like I need to know anything and everything I can about him, and decided, thanks to the provided measurement of the heel on the website (8,6cm), to find out his shoe size.
(measurements in centimeters)
Following the curve and shape of the shoe, I tried to approximate a foot size in it, and given the flatness of the tip that we can see on the picture, I figured the toes likely weren't reaching. This leaves us with a whopping size 4~5, or 35.5 in EU sizes.
Those weren't necessarily his highest heels either, as I saw a couple of sources bring up around 4 inches (mind you, inches were a bit bigger back in XVIIth century France; nowaday 1 inch ((pouce)) is 2,54cm, however it used to be 2,72cm)
So Philippe had tiny feet, which also concurs the contemporary descriptions of his remarkably short stature.
Now, for those, like me, who really need to know everything, how tall, or rather how short was he? We don't have a precise account, but here is the result of my findings:
Let's first list everything we know.
Philippe is described as either "short" (Saint-Simon), "very short" (Liselotte), or "princess sized" (Madame de La Fayette), which seems to indicate that he was much shorter than average if it's that visible
He was described by Liselotte as shorter than the king, who was estimated to be around 163cm (5"4) as attested by his armor (and mind you, he also wore rather high heels to make himself taller...)
The average male height in the 17th century was the lowest it ever was in France: 161cm / 5ft3 (source)
From this, combined with Philippe's shoe size (while there isn't an absolute correlation between shoe size and height, it's still indicative of a short stature), we can estimate that he was probably around 10cm/4inch below average, as any less than that is typically not very noticeable. I thus evaluate his height as approximately 151cm / 4ft11, which corroborates La Fayette's description of "princess sized" as 151 was closer to women's average height. (again, this is an estimate, it isn't proven or validated)
Of course, 151 is remarkably short for a man nowadays, but let's again keep in mind that the average height was barely 10cm above that, that Louis himself was barely taller than average, that the marquis d'Effiat was described by Saint-Simon as being of "mediocre size" (so likely around 160cm as well), and that despite being described as "tall", the Chevalier may as well have been around 168cm (5"6) that it would already have counted as such.
Anyway, so yeah, we're stanning short kings and princes here 🙌🙌🙌
(a little extra note: the reference to China is deliberate, as Philippe was very passionate about Chinese art and furniture, and was even a precursor in that regards; I thought it could be funny that he could use that as some form of excuse since nobody could really verify the information)
A continuation of my comic about Philippe's high heels, which you can find here! Next pages below the cut! (Ainsi, comme d'habitude, de la version française, sous la coupure donc !)
This isn't based on any historical anecdote, me and Zennie just thought it'd be funny if Chev happened to want to buy very high heels as well just to mess with Phil, except, well... he definitely doesn't have the balance to pull it off :P
(also, in my head, this is pre-relationship, so they're good friends but not there yet, which is why Phil is so flustered by the proximity lol)
FR
Comme je le disais pour la version anglaise, ceci n'est pas basé sur une véritable anecdote, mais simplement le produit d'une discussion avec zennie sur le fait que Chev aurait bien été du genre à s'acheter des talons très hauts juste pour ennuyer Phil, mais qu'il n'aurait pas vraiment eu l'adresse nécessaire pour les assumer :P
(dans ma tête on est dans du pré-relation à ce stade, donc ils sont très amis mais il ne s'est encore rien passé, ce qui explique l'émoi de Phil quant à leur proximité physique)
At this point Dubois is no longer Philippe’s preceptor, and that means he didn’t have to sleep in his student’s bedroom anymore. We don’t know where he lived, but most likely he had a small apartment somewhere near the Palais-Royal or something (although a few years later there's a whole saga about a little house he owned... Maybe we'll get to that someday). In the following years, Dubois’ position remains ambiguous; obviously Philippe appreciates his company and wants to keep him around… But Dubois isn’t really given any important charges either.
The future regent’s love for music is well-known. He loved singing and playing instruments, but also enjoyed doing composition. We know he played the harpsichord, the flute and the viola da gamba… Here he’s playing some kind of old-timey guitar because the dumb joke wouldn’t leave my head, but it’s not completely impossible that he knew how to play that too: while Liselotte never had any serious musical training, we know she occasionally played the guitar!
La VF est ici!
À ce point-ci, comme Philippe de Chartres est assez vieux, Dubois n’est plus son précepteur. Et donc celui-ci n’a plus à dormir dans la chambre de son ancien élève. On ne sait pas trop où il vivait, mais vraisemblablement il devait avoir une petite chambre quelque part, sans doute pas très loin du Palais-Royal (quoique. il y aura aussi toute une saga concernant une petite maison qui viendra plus tard. On en parlera peut-être un de ces jours...). Pendant les années qui suivront, son rôle auprès du prince demeurera un peu flou: Philippe apprécie clairement sa compagnie et souhaite le garder à ses côtés, mais il faudra bien longtemps avant que lui soit offerte la moindre charge!
L’amour du futur Régent pour la musique ne le quittera jamais. On sait qu’il jouait de la viole de gambe, du clavin et de la flûte, et qu’il savait très bien chanter! Bon, ici pour la blague il joue d’un genre de guitare, mais comme sa mère Liselotte, elle, savait en jouer un peu, on peut supposer qu’il avait peut-être appris aussi…
Est-ce qu'on sait comment se comportaient les minions de Monsieurs avec ses enfants?
Étaient tout aussi hypocrites que les autres courtisans?
ENGLISH BELOW
ALORS
on ne sait pas vraiment, non. Avec ses filles, on a très peu d'infos; il me semble avoir lu quelque part que Marie-Louise ne s'entendait pas mal avec le chevalier, mais je ne trouve pas la source donc je ne vais pas l'affirmer.
Ce qu'on sait, par contre, c'est que Philippe II est resté proche du marquis d'Effiat, et qu'il a même offert à Chev de continuer à lui verser les allocations que lui versait Phil, ainsi que de garder ses appartements (Chev a gardé les apparts, mais refusé les allocs). Soit, Philippe II était d'une bonté infinie, ce dont je ne doute pas bien sûr, soit, en plus de ça, on peut en déduire qu'ils s'entendaient plutôt bien. En soi, les intérêts de Philippe II ont eu l'air de plutôt correspondre à ceux d'Effiat et de Chev, donc je ne serais pas surpris qu'ils se soient bien entendus et qu'ils l'aient peut-être même influencé (au grand damn de Liselotte)
EN
Do we know how Monsieur's minions behaved with his kids? Were they as hypocritical as the other courtiers?
SO
We don't really know, no. With his daughters, we barely have any infos; I feel like I read somewhere that Marie-Louise got along with the chevalier rather decently, but I can't find the source so I won't affirm it.
What we do know, is that Philippe II remained close to Effiat, and that he even offered Chev to not only keep his apartments, but also to maintain the allowance that Phil was paying him (Chev refused the allowance, but kept the apartments.) Either Philippe II was immensely generous, which I don't doubt for a second, or, on top of that, we could deduce that they got along well enough. Technically, Philippe II's interests seemed to match well with Chev and Effiat's, so I wouldn't be surprised that they got along quite well and that they even influenced him (much to Liselotte's dismay)
(et bonjour, comment va tu ? tu survis aux canicules ?)
bonjour!!!! écoute là ça s'est rafraîchi en Belgique donc je survis déjà mieux, heureusement 😮💨😮💨😮💨 j'espère que toi aussi??
alors euh bon c'est hyper débile par contre donc l'histoire:
j'avais 14 ans et j'étais fans de deux mangas dont mes deux personnages préférés portaient, chacun, le titre de "roi du tonnerre" (malgré que les deux histoires et deux personnages bien distinct). Alors, j'ai créé mon adresse e-mail, "thunderkingmmh@xxx" le mmh étant genre... "miam"
puis d'un forum à l'autre où je pouvais m'inscrire, je réorganisais un peu les morceaux, et ça a donné des trucs du genre thunderKm, tkmm, etc. et puis vers la fin c'était juste... mtk
mais vu que mtk ça sonne vraiment nul j'ai fini par rajouter "ay" à la fin pour qu'il y ait quand même un semblant de voyelles au truc, et puis le "13" c'est quand je me suis inscrit sur twitter il a automatiquement rajouté un 13 et j'ai oublié de l'enlever donc il est resté sur tumblr par cohérence 💀💀💀💀
voilà en somme: c'est de la merde ça veut rien dire
ah oui et en général mes potes en ligne m'appellent "MT" parce que c'est plus rapide et on prétend que ça veut dire d'autres trucs que juste "miam tonnerre", genre "milk time", "mister tits", "mange téton" ou jsais pas quoi.................. bref c'est vraiment n'imp
I wish to become your friend by how cool you are but I am afraid that given how cool you are I will get anhiliated like Semele got by seeing Zeus true form.
LOL well uh assuming that it's sincere, i am flattered???? but i can also report that a) i'm very normal dw, b) none of my friends have been anihilated so far so i think it's all good
Hi. Hope you are well! From one searcher to another, I must ask : do you have any sources or detaills about Monsieur's Cabinet de Porcelaine à Saint Cloud or his collection? Theses days I am really focused on the Saint Cloud domain in his living days or how it must have been back then. And I am finding myself short and dry passed the first basic description.
Thank you for your time, please continue your post and drawings, i am living for them ♡♡♡
Hello!! I'm doing alright, thank you! I hope you are too 🙏🙏
and I'm glad you asked! I actually just ordered this book that should arrive next week:
which is all about Philippe's collections and from what I can tell, also includes his Cabinets de Porcelaines!
I will most definitely share my findings and a summary of the book once I get to read it!! I will therefore keep you posted 🫱🫱🫱
(many, many thanks to the ineffable @flashbic as she is the hero who found this book and recommended it to me)
Saint-Cloud devait être magnifique, quand on sait combien Philippe aimait les arts. C'est tellement dommage que le château ait été détruit avec tout ce qu'il contenait.
Sinon
Est-ce qu'on a des moments entre frères (positifs) qui ont été relevés par l'histoire?
Et comment s'entendait Philippe avec sa belle-sœur (la première hein, parce que la deuxième ne l'aimait pas des masses)?
ENGLISH BELOW THE CUT
Oui, de ce que j'en ai lu, St Cloud était vraiment extraordinaire et je suis vraiment triste de me dire qu'on ne pourra jamais le visiter :( on a quelques vieilles photos, mais bon...
Alors, on a beaucoup de moments positifs, puisque dans l'ensemble ils se sont bien entendus, maintenant comme souvent les gens s'attardent plus à relater les mauvais événements qui faisaient jaser et qui nourrissent les ragots, que les chouettes histoires réconfortantes. De manière générale, on sait que le roi aimait beaucoup avoir Philippe à sa table, et il l'invitait d'ailleurs bien souvent. Malgré les blagues un peu médisantes qu'il a pu faire à l'encontre du débit de bavardage de son frère, il est rapporté que le roi avait toujours l'air d'apprécier son blabla et sa compagnie.
Pour ce qui est de l'entente avec la reine Marie-Thérèse, difficile à dire. On ne sait pas grand chose, même s'il apparaît qu'ils s'entendaient plutôt bien les premières années et qu'ils ont même pu trouver un peu de réconfort chez l'un et l'autre durant les frasques de Louis et Henriettes. Dans la dernière bio de Philippe que j'ai lue, qui malheureusement cite assez mal ses sources (bien que je puisse d'ores et déjà attester de sa grande fiabilité dans l'ensemble), il est aussi mentionné que Philippe s'était épanché auprès d'elle quant à ses problèmes, mais que malheureusement elle s'est retrouvée un peu coincée entre lui et Henriette (avec qui elle s'était vaguement réconciliée entre-temps). Il n'y a presque aucune information quant à leur relation du temps de Liselotte, par contre, mais j'ose imaginer que la proximité entre Philippe et madame de Montespan n'a pas vraiment dû jouer en faveur de leur entente.
Question:
Do we have any historical records of good moments between the brothers?
And what do we know of Philippe's relationship with his first sister-in-law?
So, we have a lot of positive moments, as overall they did get along pretty well; now as it is often the case, people will spend more time on the bad stuff that makes people gossip and talk, rather than on wholesome stories. In general, we know that the king loved to have Philippe at his table, and he actually invited him over pretty often. Despite some rather mischievous remarks aimed at Philippe's yapping rate, it is said that the king always seemed to enjoy his chit chat and presence.
As for his relationship with queen Marie-Thérèse, hard to say. We don't know much, even though it appears that they got along rather well during the first years, and that they could even find some semblance of solace in each other while Louis and Henriette were busy doing their "thing". In the latest Phil bio that I read, which unfortunately doesn't cite its sources very well (though overall I can say is very reliable), it is also mentioned that he went to her more than once to complain about Henriette, but that she also unfortunately found herself caught between the two (as she had somewhat made peace with Henriette by then). There's next to no info regarding their relationship during Liselotte's time, though, but I dare to imagine that the proximity between Philippe and Madame de Montespan probably didn't have the best impact on it.
i'll be on vacation for 7 days starting july 23rd and i think this means my monchevy manifesto is finally coming because i have THINGS TO SAY (WAY more than when i first brought that up)
I'm gonna say it, I do think that even the laziest person imaginable should have a roof over their head, food in their stomach, and access to healthcare
Philippe really did leave a positive impression to everyone who had to deal with him during this campaign, but truth be told it’s only during the later ones that he really got to dive into the action (including the cavalry charge depicted here!). For now, while his zeal and desire to please were evident, he had to be kept away from anything important, as ordered by Louis XIV… who wanted his own son to play the bigger role, of course.
The two gifts offered to Dubois here are real, but it’s entirely possible that he got them for a different reason! In 1691, Philippe de Chartres’ marriage with one of Louis’ daughters is still fairly recent, and while we don’t have any hard proof of it, it’s very, very, very plausible that Dubois was asked to convince the king’s nephew to agree to it. The Saint-Honoré canonry briefly mentioned here won’t remain on the list of Dubois’ honors for very long though, for reasons that will later be explained…
S’il est vrai que Philippe fit des débuts prometteurs et se montra très zélé durant cette campagne, en vérité c’est plutôt durant les suivantes qu’il put vraiment montrer de quoi il était capable (et mena la charge avec la cavalerie!). Pour celle-ci, on dût surtout tenir à l’oeil, puisqu’il avait été demandé par Louis XIV que son neveu soit gardé loin de l’action… Le beau rôle devait, après tout, être pour le duc du Maine.
Les deux récompenses offertes à Dubois ici lui ont bel et bien été données, mais à vrai dire c’est tout à fait possible qu’il les ait plutôt reçues pour une tout autre raison! En 1691, le mariage de Philippe de Chartres est encore très récent, et si on n’a pas de preuve définitive que Dubois ait reçu l’ordre de convaincre son élève de s’y plier, c’est très, très, très probable. Le canonicat de Saint-Honoré dont il est question ici ne restera toutefois pas sur la liste des honneurs accordés à Dubois bien longtemps, pour des raisons dont on reparlera…
I may soon write a review of this fairly unknown Philippe bio I'm currently reading which is very interesting — overall I'd say the pros vastly outweight the cons but nonetheless, cons there sure are, among which the author's noticeable bias for Louis that manifests in the oddest double standards:
Louis falls ill (constantly) and gets better: "another proof that Louis' health was excellent"
Phil falls ill and gets better: "see he was of poor constitution"
I'm currently reading Jean-Michel Riou's "L'honneur m'est plus cher que la vie", a historical novel about Philippe's life told from his POV, and there's this scene I absolutely loved about how he made fun of the bishop to entertain Louis the night before the consecration :P
I had to illustrate it somehow.
FR and more below ⬇️
French version cos it's funnier to me
also, for context, the scene of the consecration itself is absolutely remarkable and really marks the "end" of an era for them as brothers/kids. I have translated it to english because I really wanted to hipe up a couple of friends about it LOL so if anyone's interested in the translation lmk 👉
As for the medal incident, the medals of the consecration were engraved with the wrong date due to miscommunication issues, and the bishop lost his mind about it lol
