They only showed two hunts, and said one in three is successful. So he's probably on par. That said, 1 in 3 is pretty good numbers for a lot of predators. Hunting is really hard it turns out.
For the first half of SWBTS, she's in survival mode. Most of her actions revolve around how well she's cleaving to Chongba's fate and thereby avoiding her own death. Once she realizes that's not necessary, she enters her "I do what I want" era, where she mostly acts like she's invincible. In both eras, but especially the latter, her attitude is marked by a real lack of empathy and disregard for the consequences of her actions on those around her. There's a reason she senses this aspect of herself might eventually get her into trouble, and that she needs Ma around to remind her not to become Chen Youliang. Yet even for Ma, one of the two people in the world (along with Xu Da) that Zhu genuinely cares for, she displays very little sympathy. Ma's emotions are usually a source of quiet amusement for Zhu, even when Ma is genuinely distressed. It takes her quite a while to even grasp that seeing Ma and Xu Da suffer might be unpleasant, even if it doesn't practically impact Zhu.
At the end of SWBTS, Zhu cheerfully commits child murder because she needs the Radiance Prince out of the way to legitimize herself. When Ma confronts her in grief and rage, Zhu all but brushes her feelings off.
Then we enter the third era, in the second half of HWDTW--the post-Xu Da era. Zhu's illusion of her own invincibility is shattered, not through her own death, but through that of her beloved brother-in-arms. This loss marks a profound shift in Zhu's attitude towards the world and the people in it.
Consider the differences between Zhu and Ma's infiltration of Bianliang at the start of HWTDW and their infiltration of Dadu at the end. In both instances, Zhu is delighted and excited by the prospect of a little subterfuge to get her closer to her goal. In both instances, Ma is terrified but steeling herself to do what's necessary. And in both instances, things go awry.
In Bianliang, even as the city burns and Zhu realizes her intended ally--Ouyang--has been overthrown, and Ma is now at the mercy of Ouyang's resentful ousters, Zhu is still, for the most part, having fun.
"For a moment, Zhu felt a pang at the thought of what Ma might face until Zhu found a way to rescue her. She was well aware that Ma had agreed to participate only because Zhu had promised her it would be risk-free. But there was no point feeling bad about it. Zhu cleared her mind, pleased by how easily she could set aside the distraction." (He Who Drowned the World, Chapter 4)
She has a few flickers of concern when things get really sketchy, but she easily shrugs them off, and the moment she knows Ma is alive--regardless of her condition--those concerns are totally put to bed.
"'Ah, he's always so useful!' she said brightly, unlocking Ma's cell and giving her a brief embrace as she rushed out. Her pang of concern was long gone, so Ma's sob of relief filled her with fond amusement. She savored the moment: it was sweet with all the pleasure and anticipation of knowing she'd won, and all that was left was for the inevitable to unfold." (Chapter 4)
In Dadu, it's not so easy. Zhu spends a lot of time worrying about what's happening with Ma, how the Great Khan is treating her, how the Empress is treating her, and when even minor things go sideways, Zhu starts wondering, for the first time in this whole story, if her quest is worth the cost.
"Once upon a time, had it been necessary for what she wanted, Zhu thought she might have been able to watch unmoved while Ma cried out in pain. She probably would have prided herself on her strength that allowed her to endure what needed to be done. But that had been before she had seen Xu Da die in agony...every blow upon Ma's sobbing body seemed to hit Zhu's heart." (Chapter 22)
She sympathizes with Madame Zhang during the Empress' fights with the Great Khan; she worries about the effect having to commit a murder on her behalf has had on Ma.
"Zhu's memory of Ma's suffering was still painfully fresh. But the thought of Madame Zhang, waiting alone as she was made into the palace's fool, gave her a surprising pinch." (Chapter 22)
"Ma's eyes slid sideways to Zhu, full of grief, and Zhu sorrowed: not for Jiao, never, but for what she had made Ma do." (Chapter 23)
Their Dadu adventure, which is the culmination of Zhu's quest for greatness, is the first time we ever see Zhu cry, not out of her own pain, but because of something Ma says to her.
Moreover, when confronted with the opportunity to let Yuchun die in her place, and fool Baoxiang into thinking that Zhu Yuangzhang has been defeated, Zhu genuinely struggles with the choice and eventually chooses a plan that will spare Yuchun.
When Madame Zhang finally seems to realize that what she's won wasn't worth what she paid for it, Zhu, who has been acting as her servant for the last month, stays to speak with her, rather than immediately rush to killing the Great Khan.
"Madame Zhang, on the gallery where the Great Khan had left her, collapsed like a discarded puppet. She knelt, weeping in rage and despair. This was Zhu's chance to slip away, while Madame Zhang was consumed by emotion, and head back to the Palace City.
But she didn't. An unfamiliar feeling held her there with the weeping woman." (Chapter 23)
She chooses to linger in this scene of her "mistress'" despair and try to offer her a hand of human connection. It's a shocking display of empathy from someone who has never shown a drop of it prior to the preceding chapter or two.
The Dadu infiltration culminates in the final act of the book, where Zhu chooses, of all things, mercy. Instead of killing Wang Baoxiang, the only one who now stands between her and the throne, to whom she has no attachment at all, Zhu lets him live. In spite of all the things he's done, she sees Baoxiang's pain, and even as he's given up and cowers on the floor in front of her with her blade poised, she chooses mercy.
Her shift isn't only because of Ma, either. Part of the reason she's drawn to Ma is because of Ma's empathy and kindness, and she sees those values lacking in herself. But Ma's been with her a long time, and it still isn't until this late in the story that she finally starts understanding. She comes to see for herself the value of caring for others, even strangers, and she finally chooses that kinder way that Ma hoped she would.
In the final act of book 1, Zhu kills a defenseless child for the sake of her own political greatness. In the final act of book 2, Zhu allows her greatest rival and threat to her to walk away. It's a fascinating arc to see unfold.
Been musing on your post. It’s a great arc. I really like how you highlight the three final choices, and what they represent of Zhu's personal journey, how that willingness to grow and to change, and to value qualities in other people that she doesn't have herself, or hasn't nurtured/had the opportunity to nurture, shapes the ultimate form of her victory. Her willingness to change isn't always for the better - thinking of that first murder - but she's not wedded to one path. Ultimately, that flexibility of mind that first makes her a murderer when she sees the option presented by Lady Rui, is the flexibility that is willing choose a non-murderous option, and to reap the benefit of that choice because she recognises in the first place that it exists.
The expedient option would have been to get Madam Zhang alone and then push her off the tower, but in allowing that pause for empathy, Zhu demonstrates the difference between expediency and necessity in a way that will also guide her in the final confrontation in the throne room. Letting Wang Baoxiang live may not seem the expedient choice, but once he’s defeated the risk he presents is low (no-one is going to rally behind him once he has no Mandate), and strategically, not beginning her reign by breaking the heart of her closest ally is an incredibly valuable long-term outcome. Zhu’s throne room is going to be a lot less haunted, literally and metaphorically, than Wang Baoxiang’s.
It's no bad thing to have an army that can rejoice in your brilliance in saving their commander rather than letting him be condemned, either! Mercy can be politically smart!
"Her willingness to change isn't always for the better - thinking of that first murder - but she's not wedded to one path." Very true! I love that you highlighted her flexibility, because it's one of her big strengths I think, and it contrasts really well with Ouyang's rigidity. His inability to see any other path for himself is what gets him killed in the end, while Zhu's willingness to say "okay that's not working anymore, what should I try now?" and openness to new paths and ideas keeps her ahead of her enemies. I also think it pops up here at the end with Baoxiang--he too, has exhibited incredible inflexibility throughout HWDTW, even when we get plenty of hints that he is not happy with/not enjoying the path he's on (I'm thinking largely of the minister he obviously comes to see as a mentor figure, but goes through with betraying anyway because it's ~part of the plan~), BUT at the very end, he chooses differently. He chooses to let go of the mandate and that willingness, even grudgingly, to shift off his original path is what saves his life (I doubt Zhu would have let him live if he had refused to surrender the mandate).
"Zhu demonstrates the difference between expediency and necessity" This is a great way of putting it! Definitely I think as HWDTW goes on, Zhu begins to see this difference. In the past, I think she's viewed the quickest/most expedient route to what she wants as a "necessity" but she starts to see that there are other, more difficult ways that are worth taking in order to, say comfort Madame Zhang, or not get Yuchun killed.
"Zhu’s throne room is going to be a lot less haunted, literally and metaphorically, than Wang Baoxiang’s" :'''''') The image of Baoxiang spending the rest of his life as Great Khan with Ouyang's ghost at his back is sure something
Good news, Esen's ghost was never real. Bad news, Ouyang's definitely is!
Agreed that it also comes up again with Baoxiang. I think there's a lot to dig into there about where Ouyang and Baoxiang's respective motivations come from and how this affects their choices and the way they stick with their interpretation of them when doing so is literally self-harm, and how Baoxiang ultimately turns aside from the disastrous road he chose. His willingness in the end not to fight to the death, but to accept that he has lost is a rejection of the paradigm of "my throne/ambition or my death". He's always had a mind that was more flexible than the narrow world of Henan around him, but he pushed it aside in favour of trying to win at other people's games, and then he won and it wasn't worth it. In surrendering to Zhu, and what Zhu represents, he uniquely wins the chance to go both forward and back, to reclaim the things about himself he values and to live life on his own terms as he once tried to, without the terrible weight of the past. The sunk costs are drowned deep forever, but he himself can choose to swim.
when u look at 2017 and think “oh that’s only like 3 years ago” and it’s actually 12,000 years ago and everything is gone and everyone you know has been reduced to ash and the world is completely different
For the first half of SWBTS, she's in survival mode. Most of her actions revolve around how well she's cleaving to Chongba's fate and thereby avoiding her own death. Once she realizes that's not necessary, she enters her "I do what I want" era, where she mostly acts like she's invincible. In both eras, but especially the latter, her attitude is marked by a real lack of empathy and disregard for the consequences of her actions on those around her. There's a reason she senses this aspect of herself might eventually get her into trouble, and that she needs Ma around to remind her not to become Chen Youliang. Yet even for Ma, one of the two people in the world (along with Xu Da) that Zhu genuinely cares for, she displays very little sympathy. Ma's emotions are usually a source of quiet amusement for Zhu, even when Ma is genuinely distressed. It takes her quite a while to even grasp that seeing Ma and Xu Da suffer might be unpleasant, even if it doesn't practically impact Zhu.
At the end of SWBTS, Zhu cheerfully commits child murder because she needs the Radiance Prince out of the way to legitimize herself. When Ma confronts her in grief and rage, Zhu all but brushes her feelings off.
Then we enter the third era, in the second half of HWDTW--the post-Xu Da era. Zhu's illusion of her own invincibility is shattered, not through her own death, but through that of her beloved brother-in-arms. This loss marks a profound shift in Zhu's attitude towards the world and the people in it.
Consider the differences between Zhu and Ma's infiltration of Bianliang at the start of HWTDW and their infiltration of Dadu at the end. In both instances, Zhu is delighted and excited by the prospect of a little subterfuge to get her closer to her goal. In both instances, Ma is terrified but steeling herself to do what's necessary. And in both instances, things go awry.
In Bianliang, even as the city burns and Zhu realizes her intended ally--Ouyang--has been overthrown, and Ma is now at the mercy of Ouyang's resentful ousters, Zhu is still, for the most part, having fun.
"For a moment, Zhu felt a pang at the thought of what Ma might face until Zhu found a way to rescue her. She was well aware that Ma had agreed to participate only because Zhu had promised her it would be risk-free. But there was no point feeling bad about it. Zhu cleared her mind, pleased by how easily she could set aside the distraction." (He Who Drowned the World, Chapter 4)
She has a few flickers of concern when things get really sketchy, but she easily shrugs them off, and the moment she knows Ma is alive--regardless of her condition--those concerns are totally put to bed.
"'Ah, he's always so useful!' she said brightly, unlocking Ma's cell and giving her a brief embrace as she rushed out. Her pang of concern was long gone, so Ma's sob of relief filled her with fond amusement. She savored the moment: it was sweet with all the pleasure and anticipation of knowing she'd won, and all that was left was for the inevitable to unfold." (Chapter 4)
In Dadu, it's not so easy. Zhu spends a lot of time worrying about what's happening with Ma, how the Great Khan is treating her, how the Empress is treating her, and when even minor things go sideways, Zhu starts wondering, for the first time in this whole story, if her quest is worth the cost.
"Once upon a time, had it been necessary for what she wanted, Zhu thought she might have been able to watch unmoved while Ma cried out in pain. She probably would have prided herself on her strength that allowed her to endure what needed to be done. But that had been before she had seen Xu Da die in agony...every blow upon Ma's sobbing body seemed to hit Zhu's heart." (Chapter 22)
She sympathizes with Madame Zhang during the Empress' fights with the Great Khan; she worries about the effect having to commit a murder on her behalf has had on Ma.
"Zhu's memory of Ma's suffering was still painfully fresh. But the thought of Madame Zhang, waiting alone as she was made into the palace's fool, gave her a surprising pinch." (Chapter 22)
"Ma's eyes slid sideways to Zhu, full of grief, and Zhu sorrowed: not for Jiao, never, but for what she had made Ma do." (Chapter 23)
Their Dadu adventure, which is the culmination of Zhu's quest for greatness, is the first time we ever see Zhu cry, not out of her own pain, but because of something Ma says to her.
Moreover, when confronted with the opportunity to let Yuchun die in her place, and fool Baoxiang into thinking that Zhu Yuangzhang has been defeated, Zhu genuinely struggles with the choice and eventually chooses a plan that will spare Yuchun.
When Madame Zhang finally seems to realize that what she's won wasn't worth what she paid for it, Zhu, who has been acting as her servant for the last month, stays to speak with her, rather than immediately rush to killing the Great Khan.
"Madame Zhang, on the gallery where the Great Khan had left her, collapsed like a discarded puppet. She knelt, weeping in rage and despair. This was Zhu's chance to slip away, while Madame Zhang was consumed by emotion, and head back to the Palace City.
But she didn't. An unfamiliar feeling held her there with the weeping woman." (Chapter 23)
She chooses to linger in this scene of her "mistress'" despair and try to offer her a hand of human connection. It's a shocking display of empathy from someone who has never shown a drop of it prior to the preceding chapter or two.
The Dadu infiltration culminates in the final act of the book, where Zhu chooses, of all things, mercy. Instead of killing Wang Baoxiang, the only one who now stands between her and the throne, to whom she has no attachment at all, Zhu lets him live. In spite of all the things he's done, she sees Baoxiang's pain, and even as he's given up and cowers on the floor in front of her with her blade poised, she chooses mercy.
Her shift isn't only because of Ma, either. Part of the reason she's drawn to Ma is because of Ma's empathy and kindness, and she sees those values lacking in herself. But Ma's been with her a long time, and it still isn't until this late in the story that she finally starts understanding. She comes to see for herself the value of caring for others, even strangers, and she finally chooses that kinder way that Ma hoped she would.
In the final act of book 1, Zhu kills a defenseless child for the sake of her own political greatness. In the final act of book 2, Zhu allows her greatest rival and threat to her to walk away. It's a fascinating arc to see unfold.
Been musing on your post. It’s a great arc. I really like how you highlight the three final choices, and what they represent of Zhu's personal journey, how that willingness to grow and to change, and to value qualities in other people that she doesn't have herself, or hasn't nurtured/had the opportunity to nurture, shapes the ultimate form of her victory. Her willingness to change isn't always for the better - thinking of that first murder - but she's not wedded to one path. Ultimately, that flexibility of mind that first makes her a murderer when she sees the option presented by Lady Rui, is the flexibility that is willing choose a non-murderous option, and to reap the benefit of that choice because she recognises in the first place that it exists.
The expedient option would have been to get Madam Zhang alone and then push her off the tower, but in allowing that pause for empathy, Zhu demonstrates the difference between expediency and necessity in a way that will also guide her in the final confrontation in the throne room. Letting Wang Baoxiang live may not seem the expedient choice, but once he’s defeated the risk he presents is low (no-one is going to rally behind him once he has no Mandate), and strategically, not beginning her reign by breaking the heart of her closest ally is an incredibly valuable long-term outcome. Zhu’s throne room is going to be a lot less haunted, literally and metaphorically, than Wang Baoxiang’s.
It's no bad thing to have an army that can rejoice in your brilliance in saving their commander rather than letting him be condemned, either! Mercy can be politically smart!
i enjoy a RARE and MIND-BLOWING delicacy that most of you peasants have never heard of, much less TASTED. this rare gem grows exclusively in the furtherest southern regions of my empire, yet such is my wealth and power, my agents are able to procure hundreds of it for my royal table every year.
feast your eyes upon the succulent and zesty ORANGE
The new Odyssey adaptation has inevitably gotten people talking about a Muppet version of it, and they’re frequently suggesting Kermit as Odysseus, Miss Piggy as Penelope.
I’m sorry but that’s thinking way too small, hear me out:
We need to have Miss Piggy as Odysseus, and Kermit as Penelope.
Think about it… who’s the more fickle, prideful, warlike one in that relationship? Who is absolutely ready to go ham, at a moment’s notice?
This insane scene in which Ouyang gets relentlessly she/her’ed inside Ma’s head and is so preternaturally aware of it that he goes Turbo Misogyny Mode.
CW: canon-typical violence and all-encompassing awfulness
Btw do you guys think Ayu became a ghost after he died?
Do you think that when Baoxiang couldn’t sleep, he would sometimes go see the ghost at the steps of the Hall of Great Brilliance, just to hurt himself more?
And do you think that after Baoxiang could no longer see ghosts, he would have asked Zhu to help the ghost to move on like she’d done for Ouyang?
Yknow, I think this passage really captures how Ouyang views Esen, especially in contrast with how Baoxiang views Esen. Ouyang geuinely believes the best of Esen, he genuinely belives that Esen is good and pure and kind and that it's himslef that is taining him into being otherwise. And while Ouyang is right in that he's technically responsible for Esen’s current emotional state (he did very much kill Esen’s dad and frame his brother for it, that is very much a thing he just did), for once it isn't his fault for the everything else going on with Esen?
I do think Esen is generally good-natured, and tries to be kind and generous to those he loves, but it's very clear that Ouyang has reduced him to JUST that in his head. He only sees Esen’s best qualities as inherent to him, and all the bad ones are Ouyang's fault somehow. He blames himself for Esen not understanding him (because there's something wrong with him, and even when he's mad at Esen for not caring enough to notice certain things he justifies it in his head by making it about his own unmanliness or whatever and Esen is just to perfect for that), for any failure in battle (yeah you're the general but Esen also approved this hes your boss dude), and generally for any moment where Esen exhibits less than stellar behaviour/capacity/etc. When in reality, we have a lot of moments where Esen is just sort of a dick, many of which are pre-ouyang (courtesy of HWDtW wbx flashbacks, which, granted, are also biased but my point still stands). We see Esen's constant and usually unjustified frustration with wbx and sometimes Ouyang, we see him be dismissive of the things they tell him, in the pre-order reward its pretty much stated that he makes a habit of dumping Ouyang outside brothels for hours while he goes inside to get laid, in one of his first scenes we see how much he enjoys it when Ouyang spends the whole morning tormenting Altan (altho tbf he kinda deserved it, altan suuuccckkss), and in general Esen just kinda treats people like crap sometimes. He's snapish and short-tempered and stubborn and imperious, loves whining about stuff, and is a shitty brother and best friend. He's got a lot of good qualities too, like how he's one of the few people that treats Ouyang with respect and tries to treat him as an equal, how his first reaction when wbx is insulted is to come to his defense (even if wbx usually foils his attempts by immediately clapping back and storming off), how we see him recognize he gets frustrated witj wbx too easily and tries to hold his temper back, how he immediately self-sacrifices to save Ouyang from his dad, how even after thinking wbx killed their dad he does really want to forgive him.
My point is, Esen is trying, but he's a very flawed human being, and Ouyang just can't seem to grasp that. He looks at him with rose-colored glasses. And it's so interesting that amongst all the shitty things Ouyang has done (and this duology really just is Ouyang and WBX fuck up yuan dynasty china to truly Epic proportions), the one he feels worst about is the one that isn't actually his fault (sorta). He may have killed Chaghan and been the catalyst for Esen's emotional blow up, but he isn't responsible for Esen having the capacity to burn WBX's books. That was Esen's decision. He hasn't somehow manipulated Esen into an eviler, crueler version of himself by virtue of existing evil-y and eunuch-y and revengefully im his vicinity. Esen was always capable of this, even if we take out Ouyang's actual manipulations, and I think this whole I-tainted-hin mentality really encapsulates how fucked up their relationship and Ouyang's mental state are in general. After all, Ouyang doesn't feel bad about the murder, or the framing, and he feels guilt about causing Esen pain, but most of all, he feels absolutely terrible that he's shattered what he sees as Esen’s purity, which in reality is mostly just the pedestal he himslef put him on. Man, what a fucked up little guy.
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