pan-greyrose

In the aroace-spec

[as-intimidating-as-a-butterfly]

“I mean what did you think, really? That a show about nerds and outcasts was gonna have a well-written queer romance? That, in the end, queer love could help save the world?”

Yeah I guess I did. I really did.

[pangreyrose]

Best post ever! I'm so angry and disappointed about the show but that made me laugh so hard

[callsignrex]

I’m so tired of this shit. I’m tired of always hearing people say that “queer rights have come so far.” as if that means anything when we’re still dealing with so much homophobia in the world. When the biggest show in the world hosted on one of the biggest streaming platforms has the audacity to queerbait it’s audience for 10 years while simultaneously claiming it’s “for the outcasts” and has “great queer rep”. I’m tired of us as a fandom having to always come together and do the work ourselves because we live in a world that hates to see us happy. I’m tired of getting my hopes up only to have them crushed while the straights rejoice in our misery. I’m tired of us having to constantly defend ourselves and stand up for our rights to fucking exist. I’m tired of hearing people say that “it’s not that deep” and that “not everything is political” while they simultaneously make any kind of queer rep about “liberals” or “the woke mob” and claim that our existence is ruining media.

I’m angry. I’m so angry that all the writers and executives behind the show looked around them at a world that is becoming more and more hostile towards queer people, that they created a show meant for the people who feel weird and different, that they actively marketed it using hints at byler being endgame only to throw it all back in our faces. That they thought in the year 2025 that giving the traumatized gay character an arc where he just has to “get over” the deep love he has felt for 11 years of his life so they can have a random guy in the epilogue touch his arm (as if that truly does anything for us) was somehow revolutionary and great queer rep when all it does is sideline us and put our happiness as an afterthought.

They truly see us as nothing more than a little marketing tool they can use for their show, a little sticker they can slap on that says “our show has gay people in it” without ever having to deliver any kind of good representation to us.

Everything was intentional, every piece of marketing, every flirty byler moment, the miwi flashbacks, robin’s advice, having no kind of Mileven kiss or romantic interaction until the very end, every interview where we were promised payoff to all the things they had set up, putting heroes in the end credits just so they can have it on the soundtrack, every post they made that had byler references in it. All of it was just for our money, all of it was done in a way where they could make sure their homophobic audience members could still enjoy the show while stringing us along. Will and his stupid epilogue boyfriend don’t even kiss. They don’t even kiss. Even after they set up a whole thing about him never having been kissed before. In the entire show we only get one queer kiss. One.

“For the weirdos and outcasts” my ass. Fuck you to everyone involved in setting up all the queerbaiting. Hope you’re real fucking happy with your big stacks of cash while the queer people around you are forced to grieve yet again as we watch the world become more and more bigoted. I hope you lay awake at night thinking about every single queer kid who had to watch that and ask themselves why they aren’t allowed to see themselves on screen. I hope you look at every post online bullying and making fun of the queer people who believed in this show and are consumed by immense guilt. I hope you know that our blood is on your hands whether you like it or not because you helped the bigots win.

Congrats Duffers. You’ve officially made one of the worst queerbaits ever and can now go down in history of an example of how not to do queer rep unless you want to hurt every single one of your queer fans. I hope that by some miracle this makes corporate execs wake up and that the next time a show tries to pull this bullcrap they’ll think of your show and say “we don’t want to pull a duffer” and will take the time to give us good queer rep.

[phosphorusab]

“Byler wasn’t queerbait” mfs when I pull up receipts

[pangreyrose]

I can’t believe we got the biggest, fat-ass queerbaiting in history — and no less than from a show that told us it was actually for people like us. A show for outcasts, for people who feel they don’t belong? My ass.

[namekings]

There is something that I find puzzling and would love someone’s input. Let me first add that I am very very new to K-pop ( like I saw my first video of Felix in God’s menu in March new). I went from loving Felix to loving Hyunlix to loving Straykids. I have spent countless hours hyperfixating on content and what I find curious is the lack of overt or blatant flirtatious interaction between Felix and Hyunjin. I've seen Felix and Hyunjin flirt with practically all the members (especially Changbin, Han, and IN) they are shipped with but never each other. I'm not talking about the stares, hugging, smiles, etc. What do y'all think?

Edit: While I do appreciate all feedback (again I am a very new fan) I have to let you know that I bite back.

[pangreyrose]

Hi, I’m reblogging your question because my answer is pretty long, and it would be a nightmare for you to have so many of my comments in your comment section.

I’ve been into K-pop for quite a long time, and I can tell you that what idols show us and the reality behind it are quite different. If you’re curious about it, I recommend diving deep into YouTube; there are a few videos that explain very well how the K-pop industry works.

I think we could say that there are two basic ideas that companies want to sell to fans through idols: one is that the idol is somewhat in love with you and can’t live without you, and the other is that they have a very special and unique bond with their members, sometimes in a way that could be seen as more than just friendship. I don’t know the specific situation with Stray Kids, but I can tell you that in general, idols are trained to know how to flirt with their fans and with one another. Companies take fanservice very seriously, often investing money into it, and sometimes offering extra benefits to members if their "ship" becomes popular.

That’s why idols are always doing fanservice—in meetings, concerts, interviews, and especially in official content. This is also why some members might seem closer during one period and less so during another; it basically depends on which "ship" the company wants to promote.

Of course, I’m not saying that members aren’t close. Don’t get me wrong. Idols go through a very tough process and often grow up living 24/7 with the other members; this kind of situation naturally creates deep and meaningful bonds. I just want to point out that what we see is a very distorted view of reality because fanservice is such an important part of their job.

In the case of Hyunlix, I’d say the situation is quite unique. It’s pretty clear they were very close in the past (which seemed very genuine to me) and their ship became quite popular. Initially, I think the company was indeed promoting them, but then they stopped. You can see this, for example, in SKZ Code, where they are never paired together as a duo. If it’s with more members, they are sometimes placed together, but not very often. In many interviews, their interactions are edited and cut off, and in live broadcasts, the staff instructs them to stop being touchy-feely and to keep their distance. Felix and Hyunjin have repeatedly been paired with other members for fanservice, likely to draw attention away from their ship.

Some people will tell you that this situation arose because the shipping was going too far, and it makes sense why some would think that, as rumors about this being the reason spread widely. But no, nothing could be further from the truth. Why? Because no company would ever miss a chance like that to profit. If a ship gets popular? Good. If it becomes so popular that people think it’s real? Even better—more money will be generated. This is a business, and a company will always prioritize what makes them money, no matter how the idols feel about it. Look at Minsung—many fans think they’re real, and the company still pairs them up as much as possible, doing a lot of fanservice. And like them, there are many ships in other groups that are in the same situation, which is proof that claiming shipping was the reason for keeping Hyunlix apart doesn’t make sense.

On the other hand, what was very concerning and definitely led the company to make that decision were the death threats. That was a very serious situation, and no company can allow a ship to put their idols’ safety at risk.

Obviously, this is just my opinion—no one can know the truth for sure—but I’ve been around for many years and have seen some pretty dark things in the K-pop industry, so I guess you could say I have a bit of experience. I’d love to share more of my thoughts on this matter because there’s a lot of misinformation out there, but I think this has already gotten too long. Sorry about that.

[ace-culture-is]

Grey ace culture is thinking that maybe you're not as ace as you think you are but then you hear about what the allos are up to and realise that you're actually more ace than you thought you were

[shijieee0]

[pangreyrose]

Wow it's so good!!❤️

[gaylittleeldritchhorror]

I'm AroAce btw.

[bloodraven55]

every time i go back to wha i’m reminded that agott has the biggest crush on coco and it’s absolutely adorable 🥺

[pangreyrose]

I need for them to be a couple in the future. They're so adorable, I can't 😖❤️❤️

[bylertruth3r]

and then he goes on a double date with Will and Lumax

@gayofthefae

also about the song, it's about Mike not knowing what to do about his love for Will so he repressed it @heavenlymiwi @sarahivess

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Yeah, this is stuff I also noticed. That song doesn't fit Mike and El, at all, but it sure fits Mike and Will.

[bylertruth3r]

plus it's a song about falling in love with a friend and not knowing what to do about it while already being in a relationship with someone else which explains the love triangle perfectly

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

That's part of what I mean by it not fitting Mike and El.

They weren't friends who fell in love. They kinda skipped over the whole friend thing. Some people do forget that they were apart for a year after knowing each other a week, and they immediately started dating once they were reunited.

Can't be something that "started out as friendship and grew stronger" if they never even had time to be friends.

But Mike and Will...

[pangreyrose]

Honestly I'm even more surprised about the fact they chose Never Surrender. That's definitely a weird choice for a "romantic" scene.

[pangreyrose]

Hi!

I just made several versions for a pan-greyrose/ pan grey-aroace flag and I don't know which one to choose.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on which one do you think is the best :) It's my first time trying to create a flag!

[romancerepulsed]

i keep seeing misinformation about this, so: queerplatonic relationships do not have a set definition. the name comes from the idea that it's "queering" the platonic relationship, tailoring it to the individual relationships' own desires. it isn't necessarily romance lite, but it also isn't necessarily whatever definition you want to impose on it. the point of queering the platonic relationship is to break away from strict allonormative views on friendship, romance, and sex, not to make a new categorical box to fit in.

the answer to "what is a qpr?" is "whatever you want it to be." sometimes that is romance lite. sometimes it's a deeply committed friendship. sometimes it's friends who have a sexual relationship. sometimes it's based on an entirely different mode of attraction. sometimes it's fluid and impossible to put into words. it's whatever you want it to be. it's queer.

[pangreyrose]

Some thoughts regarding all the arguing about Alastor’s identity

Sorry, this is gonna be so long…

First, I’d like to say that I rarely if ever get involved in fandoms’ discussions. I’m a very low-key fan. I just scroll through the tags I like checking what other anons post, liking some comments, and reblogging once in a while. I’m here on Tumblr to have fun and enjoy what I’m passionate about, not to fight people who don’t ship what I ship or don’t have the same opinions I have. I respect people having thoughts and tastes that differ from mine and when I see something that isn’t my cup of tea I just block it or skip it. I think people should ship whatever they like and just ignore what they don’t if they don’t wanna see it.

That said, all this argument regarding Alastor’s shipping has been bothering me so much I decided to share my thoughts on it and explain how this makes me feel personally as someone who is the aroace-spec.

Let me tell you a little bit about my experience first.

I never heard of the term asexuality until I was a teenager; and aromanticism until early adulthood.

When I first learned about them though, it was only in a very stigmatized way, and even if a big part of it resonated in me I felt something wasn't. I struggled for a long time, feeling I wasn’t normal, that something was wrong with me because I felt I didn’t belong to either allo or a.

It wasn’t until I delved into it that I learned that aromanticism and asexuality are umbrella terms with a lot of labels and microlabels that express the vast experiences people may have under the spectrum that I felt I was finally fitting in.

Or at least theoretically.

The reality was that I still struggled to feel part of the community. I felt that since I wasn’t a flat-out aroace I wasn’t being enough aroace to be seen as an equal member of the community. That’s why I decided to use the term grey-aroace (or aroace-spec sometimes) because I felt less judged and more welcomed.  It wasn’t until very recently that I started to see more and more people on Tumblr sharing their stories and feelings as asexual people and the ace community being more open and welcoming towards people’s different types of experiences. This made me very happy and I started to feel more comfortable calling myself ace (in case anyone wonders, I unfortunately didn’t experience that in the aro o aroace communities).

Then all this about Alastor's identity and shipping came and people started fighting for whether Alastor was ace or aroace. "Alastor’s VA confirmed it", "But Viv didn’t confirm it and she’s is the author", "Then why didn’t she correct him in the last Q&A?", "Well, she never used the term aroace, she used the term ace all the time" "That’s because she’s worried how people will react once she confirms it" and that went on an on… and people kept fighting over whether it wasn’t correct to ship him or not, or in any case, what was the correct way to ship him.  Tumblr started to be full of comments like "He’s aroace, you can’t ship him", "It's OK to ship him but only in a QPR", "People use the concept of fictional character so they can erase his aroace identity", "Making him hyper-sexual or romantic is aphobic", "Him having romantic feelings or sexual attraction is like making Angel straight".

And look, I get, seriously. It’s pretty rare to have a character in the spectrum and people want him to be represented respectfully. People care. I do care too. I’m very happy we got a character like him. And no worries, I’m almost 100% sure they’ll portray him as a very stereotypical flat-out aroace. Pretty sure he won’t even have a QPR. I don’t think they would risk making anything that could be even the slightest bit ambiguous because it could be easily seen as disrespectful.  

And this makes me incredibly sad.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m OK with Alastor being a stereotypical aroace if that’s what they want to show. I’m OK with any kind of aroace they want to show us.

What feels so terrible is how people seem to be so against the idea of Alastor being other than a flat-out aroace, and how aggressive some comments are towards the fans who see him somewhere else in the aroace-spec.

I think it’s very damaging to the visibility of all types of people that make up the community. It feels like we don’t belong. Like if we were allowed to be part of the group but not as equals, as if our experiences were not as valid as others.

I do have my own opinions on the approach of Alastor’s sexual/ romantic interactions, of course, but those are my headcanons. I do respect the way other people may imagine him, no matter whether that's my cup of tea or not because experiences that could fit in the aroace-spec are very diverse and I think they all should be treated as equally valid.  

Just one final point. I hope this doesn’t offend anyone, my intentions are far from wanting to disrespect anyone in this community, I’m not trying to attack or criticize anyone here. I just wanted to share my experience and express how all this affected me personally.

[kitkatclubcopia]

Okay I have a hot take and a controversial opinion here; but I've seen a lot of people get upset over shipping Alastor with other characters due to the fact he's ace, and I totally get it- representation matters. But people shouldn't be getting mad over harmless shipping, especially when it releases other asexual identities. Demisexuals exist. Asexuals who experience romantic attraction exist. Abrosexuals exist. We want representation too :')

[meowjames]

Murray: You’re young, attractive, you got chemistry, history.

Murray: Plus, the real shit, shared trauma.

Murray: Trust issues, I am right? Something with your dad.

Will: What? No! I mean… My dad-

Mike: Is an asshole.

Murray: You… you are harder to read. Probably like everyone, afraid of what would happen if you accepted yourself for who you really are retreated to the safety of… name?

Will: Eleven.

Murray: Eleven! We like Eleven.

Mike: Yes!

Murray: But we don’t love Eleven.

[meidui]

steve: *gazing at the love of his life* scott:

[hansoeii]

calm before the storm

[hansoeii]

I’m still so fond of this one

[pangreyrose]

Wow!! This one is sooooo good!!

[locklylemybeloved]

i actually think we need to talk about how sexuality is fluid. people change, and they change constantly. part of that change is ur identity

i was aroace for years of my life. i never felt any attraction to people, i couldnt understand attraction, i didnt ever want to be with anyone. and i was comfortable with that.

but then one day (i cant really explain it or pinpoint it) i realized that oh i could be in a romantic relationship now. in this current moment, im biromantic (something i spent a while debating) and asexual.

but the problem was, i was so paranoid people wouldn’t believe me, or people would assume the period of my life that i was aroace was immaturity or a “mistake” that i didnt come out for a WHILE. i didnt want all of those people who told me “its just a phase” and “i hadnt found the right person yet” to be right

but heres the thing: even though i am no longer aroace, those people werent right. it wasnt “a phase.” that time i was aro wasnt a “phase.” i genuinely was aro, but because all things tend to be fluid, that changed. and another funny thing? i didnt “find the right person.” i didnt have an “awakening.” one day, i just knew. and thats totally okay.

it’s exhausting to constantly justify your sexuality to others. it’s exhausting to feel invalidated in your own identity. and i know for a fact that its not just me that experiences this.

i know someone who was a lesbian their entire life, and then they realized no they were actually a man. now they identify as a straight guy

anyways i guess this point of this is to tell people to accept fluidity and change in identity, and to let people who’ve gone through the same thing as I have know:

you aren’t alone, i’ve been there too. and i’m so sorry if you relate to the tiring state of mind of constant questioning. stay strong and remember that the way you see yourself is entirely for you. your identity is yours, and you get to define it.

[pangreyrose]

I can totally relate to that. It's exhausting when you want to explain to others your sexuality and they're always like: "but, you weren't like this before!" and try to invalidate your experience.