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@qualityversusquantity
IF Hypothesis
I've been thinking a lot lately..
Don't a lot of people that don't eat breakfast already do IF for the most part? I mean yes, a lot of us don't stop eating before 8 pm.. but a lot of us don't eat for more then 8 hours a day.. I would assume. So does that mean a lot of people are actually participating in IF? And if so is it going to be that successful? I guess I'm just worried it's not going to work for me but it seems like people get results.. so maybe I should just stop worrying.
Does anyone have a clear answer?
First day of IF
Hours I ate: 12 pm - 9 pm
Yes it was a bit longer then I wanted, but I had class until 7 and then I had to take the bus and bike home which landed me home around 8ish. So it just wasn't possible for me to eat any earlier when I have class from 4-7...
Yesterday Intake:
Broth in the morning (My bad - needed the warmth!)
A small salad with mixed salad, spinach, cucumbers, sunflower seeds, carrots, and a bit of ranch. They didn't have any Italian! :(
A grande skinny caramel macchiato. (NOM! My bad though.. shouldn't have had it.)
A small bowl of mixed veggies, chicken, and mashed potatoes with a glass of milk.
I didn't drink enough water and by the end of the night I was coming down with a headcold so.. I wasn't too interested.
Today will be different. I packed an apple, carrots, a small piece of cheese, and water only for today except maybe a treat of a glass of milk tonight with dinner if I want. Having a headcold doesn't help.
The sucky thing though - I gained a pound. But I KNOW I was bad with my water intake and my choices weren't great yesterday. Sucks though because I worked out so.. Oh well. I'm not going to worry about it when I have so much more to worry about.
Yeah this dumbass left her water bottle on her bike. Across campus.
Fuck. :|
Day 1 of IF
CW: 194
Wow, talk about relief. From everything I ate and drank the past two days and to NOT have gained it all back is such a relief. I hate mondays though and it's going to be one LONG ass Monday. I have to bike extra far today to get home because my Grandma isn't here to get me
Anyways, I need to go get my game face on. Another round of interviews today at 11:30. And this is one sleepy bear.
Blarg, the past 24 hours have sucked.
I drank 1.5L of Wine and threw most of it up at 4 am after laying on my bathroom floor.. I always ruin drinking nights.. and I made it all about me which really sucks.
But because of that - today has suuuuucked. I tried to stay on a liquid diet but I was feeling SO frickin sick I knew I had to eat. So I had about 3/4's of a whole wheat bagel with cream cheese and a ton of orange juice.
I'm scared to stand on the scale honestly. ;; Tomorrow I'm going to start IF and I'm also going to start working out now that my boyfriend is as well. :)
So, yay for healthy changes.
I dont mean to trigger anything.. but I'm currently studying mental health in graduate school and I had a question that lectures don't really address.. I understand what might make you binge.. stress & everything that can accompany that.. But.. Is it just stress? Or do you sometimes just feel hungry and then just dont know when to stop? I guess it's both.. I assume.. It just seems to be that people that fast seem to binge more.. and I'm wondering if its a control issue or just hunger!? Or both..
No problem, I don’t mind answering questions. =)Its like an addiction, a demonic addicton, I don’t really feel like anything is the cause of it, but I guess some siduations make me want to give in to the voices even more. Stress and hungry are just like helping the voices grow stronger, but the voice is always there. Honestly, the best way I can describe it is like you lose control over your body and mind and it just happens. Its like someone with a drinking problem, imagine if they were told you have to stop getting drunk but you still need to drink a normal amount of alcohol every day.
im 210 as of today, i started off 225 and i'm 5'10 i used to be 195 around that for a long time but gained ALOT if you ever need someone to talk to feel free to message me, everyone needs to let stuff out when there going through stuff like this! :)
Aw! Thank you so much - That means the world to me! Having any kind of support system is so important during difficult times.. especially when you're trying to become healthier and honestly that ALONE takes up so much emotional energy. So, thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you know that you're more then free to talk to me also. :)
So I officially broke my fast.
I had subway.. :(
Gonna drink my booty off tonight - then back to the fasting tomorrow. 24 hours, 1 meal.
Water Fast Day 3 Results
SW: 197.5
CW: 193
Pounds lost: 4.5
Still not seeing the best results.. I'd like to see more for the hard work I'm putting into it! But then the other side of me is like " Well.. if you lose a pound a day HECK.. that'd be okay!!!" I kinda just want to get out of the 90's. Tonight is my cheat night - I'm breaking my fast in order to drink. I kinda want to be able to eat as well so I dont get drunk so freaking fast. So I'm having this superfood drink by Odwalla and then a Pink Lady Apple before the football game today.
Don't be disappointed in me! Tomorrow I'm going to start IF, Fast for 24 hours and have a meal. I'm going to see how I do with that.
What You Can Do to Improve Your Physique
Water Fast Day 3
I woke up with the idea that today would be the worst day - and it has been but it wasn't HORRIBLE.
The worst part was when my bus was late to the terminal and I missed my transfer bus home which only comes every hour.. so I had to sit next to the subway in the terminal for an hour.. THAT was torture.. Not only smelling it but watching tons of people eat it around you. Fff... I need to remember I'm doing this for a good reason. After today I'm going to start IF I believe.. mainly because I'm going to be drinking tomorrow and I kinda want to be able to munch on some stuff. We'll see :X Its funny now because now I'm hesitating when it comes to eating the pizza I know I have in the freezer or just in general any kind of carb. But I suppose it's better to be conscious of what I'm eating then not.
I did give in today and had a cup of beef broth. And let me tell you, it was to DIE for. I've been freezing lately so having that other then tea was amazing, However I am worried that all that salt is going to make me retain water :(
I did walk a LOT today though. Had a school thing then when shopping at Target and the Book Exchange (which is my new favorite place - holla!)
Anyways.. only had a slight headache probably because from 10-5 I only drank 1 bottle of water.
Intake:
4 1/2 Camelbaks - 90 Ounces
1 cup of raspberry pomegranate green tea
1 cup of beef broth low sodium
Definitive Guide to Intermittent Fasting
So this post is quite-comprehensive and details how you can lose fat (also known as a “cut”) and/or gain muscle but not fat slowly (also known as a slow “bulk”). Cutting and bulking are the two terms you will now use for “dieting” and “getting big”, because by using bodybuilding terms I’m hoping you will all embrace the fact that you can gain and lose weight in an organized, healthy fashion rather than starving yourselves or getting fat on the GOMAD (gallon of milk a day) diet.
As a little teaser, i’ll let you in on the secret that:
Real intermittent fasting, done the easy/correct way, always involves skipping breakfast (gasp!) and instead “breaking-the-fast” around lunchtime. For one, if you sleep 8 hours, that’s technically 8 hours of fasting right there (which you’re already doing! Good for you, you’re like an intermittent fasting aficionado!). More details will be forthcoming, but I’m getting ahead of myself here…
So first, what is the real definition of intermittent fasting (IF)? Here’s Part 1 of 7 on a site I frequent (it’s a funky “paleo diet/caveman diet site” but don’t let that deter you from reading the series - I’ll be posting more about what I recommend eating for health later)
Mark’s Daily Apple: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-weight-loss/#axzz2LCYMIkDT
I suggest reading all 7 if you have the time because I’m sure you’ll find it interesting, but I will rehash the major benefits and details here. And because I don’t do things half-baked, I’m going to put lots of details in now instead of spoon-feeding it to you, so that once you learn this you’ll never have to learn it again and you can explain it to somebody else….
…But, if you don’t have the time and want to do this like right meow, go on ahead to the section titled “Intermittent Fasting”.
Fed/Fasted
Your body is in either one state or the other
The “Fed” state varies in length based on how big and how complex your meal is
Fat = slow digestion, non-starchy carbs (think: green things) = slow digestion, starchy carbs (think: potato) = fast digestion, protein = fast or slow (whey = fast, casein = slow)
Example: nonfat milk digests faster than whole milk, and whey protein digests faster than any milk (because milk is 80% casein 20% whey).
Get the idea? So if you drink 20g whey protein with water, expect to fully digest it in around 1.5 hours
A full, mixed meal with fat, carbs, and protein can take up to 4-7 hours to digest.
So why do you care about all this? Well, truth be told it won’t change the basic IF protocol, but in case you need to tweak something one day (like a pre-workout meal or protein shake) perhaps you’ll be able to do it on the fly, eh?
Ok, so, REALLY BRIEF SCIENCE ALERT (which you don’t have to read, but I wanted to give credit where credit is due) http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/09/intermittent-thoughts-on-intermittent_25.html
So the Fed/Fasted cycle basically comes down to two protein kinases (aka, enzymes (not the digestive kind) that make shit happen) - AMPK and mTOR. Sounds scary? It’s really not - this is all I need you to know:
Fasted = AMPK
Fed = mTOR
As you can see, they are opposites and when one goes up, the other goes down, like supply/demand.
Here are two graphs that give some nitty gritty details, which you can safely skip because i’ll summarize them in but a sentence!
What AMPK Actually Does
What mTOR Actually Does (when you have too much)
A few things you should take away: When AMPK is “upregulated” aka there’s a lot of it (so that means you’re in what state? Fasted.), you get “fatty acid oxidation” and “autophagy” in fat, and a lack of protein synthesis in muscle.
As the see-saw graph above says:
AMPK = fasted = fat burning, cellular repair, and no muscle gain.
mTOR = fed = general growth and muscle gain.
So for anti-cancer and long-life purposes, you want to balance AMPK with mTOR. The average American does not do this often - eating and snacking all day will continuously prevent AMPK from building up, and too much mTOR will promote cancer and fatness etc.
That’s not to say you can’t lose fat eating 17 meals a day, because in the end total calories per day is what matters, but it would certainly make life a lot harder.
Here are some Simple, Awesome Graphs by Brad Pilon of “Eat, Stop, Eat” who looks like this by the way:
See how the bodyweight one drops 2% each fast, then spikes back up when they eat again? That’s mostly water weight, with a bit of fat. Fat loss takes time - approximately 1-2lbs per week is normal. Expecting or trying for more via extreme calorie restriction is ludicrous, and will likely stop healthy weight loss rather than promote it.
Another BRIEF SCIENCE NOTE: While in the fasted state, you will be maintaining your blood glucose requirements with a combo of recently-digested carbs as well as stored carbs/protein. The stored carbs are glycogen from your liver, and the protein is from muscle. Once you hit 16 hours, you will be running mostly on stored amino acids because your liver glycogen will run out:
Glycogen depletion in the human liver upon fasting (with no exercise) is about 0.3mmol/kg liver tissue per minute. With 300mmol/kg glycogen in a liver, a 16-hour fast, as Martin Berkhan suggests, would use roughly 96% of your liver glycogen stores.
After that, glucose is made from gluconeogenesis by cannibalizing the body’s muscle tissue.
Despite this, you will not really start to lose muscle until after the 24-hour mark. Similarly, for those afraid of going into “starvation mode”, your metabolism only drops after around the 72-hour mark of a fast (which you are definitely NOT doing, riiiight?)
So, actual ways to do a proper Intermittent Fast:
Intermittent Fasting
Does not necessarily mean calorie restriction. I can IF and eat 3000 calories in a day. In this case, I may not lose fat because I’m eating so much, but I will get the benefits of autophagy (cellular repair = anti cancer) etc. Because you can digest food in four hours, if you restrict your daily eating window to a lesser set of hours (say, 8) rather than the whole day, it becomes an "intermittent fast" that lasts part of the day despite still being able to eat more or less than you need to lose weight as you please.
Anyways, the best intermittent fast is: 16 hours for men, 14 hours for women.
The best guide is on here:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html
Martin Berkhan, the author, looks like this (year round) by the way:
Specifically, for exercise purposes, I’d suggest one or two pre-workout meals if you train later in the day (because you’re in college):
"One pre-workout meal
This is the most common setup for my younger clients that are still in college or have flexible working hours. Sample setup 12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Pre-workout meal. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake. 3-4 PM: Training should happen a few hours after the pre-workout meal. 4-5 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal). 8-9 PM: Last meal before the fast. Two pre-workout meals This is the usual protocol for people with normal working hours. Sample setup 12-1 PM or around lunch/noon: Meal one. Approximately 20-25% of daily total calorie intake. 4-5 PM: Pre-workout meal. Roughly equal to the first meal. 8-9 PM: Post-workout meal (largest meal).”
It is possible to do up to 24 hours, which is what Brad Pilon recommends, to burn extra fat. The downside, however, is that after 16 hours for men and 14 hours for women you might start losing muscle in order to do so. A lot of the IF magic will have already happened by 16 and 14 hours, so not doing a full day isn’t really an issue.
The one benefit is that 18-24 hour spike in “Free Fatty Acids” graph above, which indicates that a lot more fat starts getting used for energy around that point in time.
However, any kind of intermittent fast lets you eat every single day while still IFing -
if following Eat Stop Eat (better fat loss): just eat dinner at 8 one day and fast until dinner at 8 the next
if following Leangains (better muscle retention), just eat from 12pm-8pm and don’t eat again until 12 pm (for men) or 10pm (for women).
For Leangains, that’s an 8 hour feeding window with which to eat a lot of food (it should be A LOT whatever your goals are - if you usually eat 2000 calories but want to lose fat, you should be eating 1500 calories in an 8hour time period. That’s 2 or 3 solid meals).
Whatever you choose to do, I’d read the whole “Leangains Guide”, because it’s quite informative, with statements such as:
"coffee, calorie free sweeteners, diet soda and sugar free gum are ok (even though they might contain trace amount of calories)
A tiny splash of milk in your coffee won’t affect anything either (½-1 teaspoon of milk per cup at the most - use sparingly and sensibly if you drink a lot of coffee)
Neither will sugar free gum in moderation (~20 g)”
Also, a note from the lovely people at Examine.com about protein timing on a fast (more to come in my definitive guide to protein part 2):
"Pre-loading some protein, if in a fasted state, may be better than consuming it after a workout with little to no pertinent need to consume the protein immediately after the workout.
The ‘one hour metabolic window [i.e. the eating protein within an hour rule] may apply only to fasted training where there is no pre-load, as some evidence suggests that sooner is better in this particular scenario only”
On Non-Workout Days you should still do a Leangains 16/8 (men) or 14/10 (women) IF [16 or 14 hr fast, 8 or 10 hr feed), just make your FIRST meal the biggest (think: large meals centered around your workouts, which was dinner the night before and now breakfast the next day - this optimizes muscle gain instead of fat gain).
Conclusion: Try 16 (m) or 14 (f) hour fasts to start, for at least a month or two, experimenting every now and again with an 18-24 hour fast if so desired. But 14-16 hours is a very manageable habit that won’t interfere with your daily life. In fact, it gives you a bunch of health benefits (even beyond fat loss) and adds a good 30 minutes to an hour to your morning (so you can extend that whole sleep-fasting thing to get those 8 hours per night). Remember, the longer you sleep, the longer you avoid initial hunger pangs (which will subside within an hour or two into pleasant, fasted complacency).
Furthermore, the more often you eat in an exact IF pattern, the better your hormonal entrainment to your meal patterns - aka it’ll feel natural and you won’t get hungry as often in-between meals whilst fasting.
Lastly, as I showed previously with Brad and Martin, a picture is worth a thousand words:
Here’s Duong Nguyen, a http://suppversity.blogspot.com/ ”student”, after a 12-week IF program (he already had most of the muscle, but look at all that fat he got rid of!):
And so on.
P.S. For girls who STILL worry about getting bulky with lifting weights, it’s comical to think you could get into manly-woman territory without extreme effort and/or steroids. Here’s an example of a woman who lifts big and eats big (not necessarily IF though), and look “toned” as a result of doing some really simple lifting:
Whatever gender you are, just trust me when I say that…
Abs are made in the kitchen, while asses are made in the gym.
Interested? Then try IF, and lift some weights.
Let me know if you have any questions
-Adam Long/Thunderdome
FWC Nutrition Chair
"I fast for greater physical and mental efficiency."
Plato