RUNNING SIMULATOR 3000

@miquellah 's personal repository of Soulsborne lore and fan theories. header credit @ordervessel / icon @nightmaresyrup

[starrythroat]

i had a headache so instead of working i did elden ring rune comparison sheet

i realize rune of death and barbs are missing but it's until next time

[menininini]

hey! psst! you! yeah you! cmere real quick! please draw accurate Ranni!

thank you <3

[doshmanziari]

Real-world Analogs for Bloodborne’s Architecture

This is a partial documentation at best; nevertheless, I’d like to share what some casual research has yielded for possible points of inspiration for Bloodborne’s environmental concept artists.

Probably the most inarguable association I’ve found so far. You can see at least a couple of buildings around Central Yharnam modeled on the one depicted in the concept art. Below that is a photo of the Richardson Olmstead Complex. Despite all of the alterations the Bloodborne version makes, the building’s general shape has been preserved, and the towers are unmistakably indebted.

Above is the bridge that links the Upper Cathedral Ward’s manor to the Lumenflower Gardens; below is a painting of the Rialto Bridge. You can find photos of it, but I thought this moonlit picture was especially complementary. Perhaps the largest difference here is the portico; Bloodborne’s moves away from a rusticated single-arched design to one that is tripartite but still vaguely Italian, with a scrolled pediment and allusion to Venetian windows. Thanks go to Richard Pilbeam for providing the screenshot (and several more).

Keep reading

[katyspersonal]

*happy autistic noises*

Found a dump of some nice Dark Souls 2 close ups ( x ) on Japanese page! And they are in neutral lighting FINALLY!! Guys check the page it is great

Chloanne with really nice green eyes

Creighton is one of those characters who were modelled with the helmet on so no face, but his eyes are less blue than I thought! Greenish-grey, actually!

Benhart

Cale has Lady Maria's eye color, apparently xD

Okay I know close-up of Lucatiel is actually something widely seen since she is very loved, but let's look at her again fdsfsd God, I love how elaborate her eyelashes are. Pretty woman

McDuff

I like how Targray's eyes are SO blue when he is a Blue Sentinel.. like, yeah, man, we can tell fsdhfghdsfd

^^^ By Moonlight Ruin ( x ) Also modelled with helmet on, so no hairstyle

Milfanito that was trapped behind cell with Embedded has eyes open, and they're very purple

And the Milfanito found before Demon of the Song has cool red dots as her pupils! Damn iirc someone in DS1 fandom draws human Manus with eyes just like this? What a coincidence because I swear she is the only example of this in the trilogy, and it is sooooo well hidden!

I was 1000% sure Rosabeth had dark brown eyes, but turns out they're actually emerald? Well, actually black with specks of emerald in the middle! Super cool!

So I JUST found out that Carhillion normally has his eyes shut, because the first close view of him I saw was with eyes:

^^^ This image is by Moonlight Ruin on Xitter ( x ). But yeah, this particular page missed out on his eyes. They're blue!

This dataminer didn't include the version of Straid without the mask, so time for Moonlight Ruin's tweet ( x ) again:

These are really strange eyes xD But confirmation on short hair!

Petrus at home Licia

Felkin. Girl these are some big eyebrows

Also a few from actual Twitter from Moonlight Ruin ( x )

Vendrick

Bell Keeper

Navlaan (nobody needed to see it but have it anyways)

Pate. He is shaved.

Okay now back to that Japanese blogger from the start but with another two pages ( x ) ( x ) These pages reveal how all the NPCs like invaders and summons and so that use player data share the same exact 7 preset faces! @val-of-the-north made a post about it already ( x ) so honestly, neglect all these fuckers unless their face is legit visible! So here are just points of interest:

Pate's brown eyes

Magerold

Maughlin

Cromwell (yet another bald wife xd)

Drummond

Grandal

Melentia! Didn't think she also had unique face!

Okay I've hit 30 images per post limit so I'll post a few more images in a reblog, one second

[radabeast]

How Did Marika's People Even Come to Be? The Erdtree Eugenics Theory

this is not anything as near in-depth as it could be, or as polished as things need. but here's finally a TL;DR on what i call my "erdtree eugenics theory", and any supporting themes/evidence. CONTENT WARNING for talk of (fantasy) eugenics and genocide.

the basic statement of the theory is this: that marika's people were (at least partially) created by cycling hornsent through the erdtree's reincarnation system. this helps to explain the difference between demigods (her direct progeny) and the graced, as well as to how her main population of peoples was attained. (especially if Badlanders/Loux still remain distinct, and Numen are still remarkably scarce)

this also further helps further explain as to why the hornsent have grace in their eyes, and why the crusades were seemingly so late into the timeline; the hornsent were, indeed, marika's first followers. and marika herself was then bolstering her new peoples' own numbers of graced, non-hornsent, in order to both begin in clearing out the hornsent numbers. this would also allow her more adept handling in creating new cultures under her own control, and pushing out those of the hornsent.

this theory IS very much founded on the idea of the erdtree facilitating a reincarnation cycle, of which is never OUTRIGHT stated as true, but otherwise a very popular and well-supported theory. therefore i will not go into that and its evidence here, but it's for certain not difficult to find. otherwise, we have further supporting thematic evidence to this possibility:

the fundamentalist Law of Regression stating "regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge." within this theory, the law of regression then explains why omens are sometimes born from the graced populace (in that reincarnated life is regressing back toward original hornsent form)

the practice of the jar innards used by the hornsent themselves, in order to "rebirth" undesirables, parallels this idea and continues its themes.

the process of boc's potential ending, where he is reborn through rennala's egg to lose his "undesirable" demihuman features, to then be replaced with "desirable" graced human features, parallels this idea and continues its themes.

the Dung Eater's portrayal is further explained through this, or more specifically as to why a desire to remove disparity (albeit through continuing "curses") is shown through the lens of a ragingly mad serial killer. essentially, while removing people from the cycle of reincarnation, and wishing to restore people to omens all, he is essentially doing the same as marika but in a reverse sense. "dysgenics" (the intentional passing on of traits seen as "undesirable"), as opposed to eugenics.

notably, this theory is not one i believe that can be 100% concretely proven, and is not intended to be read as such; more that it is possible, and elevates an anti-genocidal reading of the narrative if adopted.

[ornsteinbignaturals]

Idk if I'll get boo-ed by saying this but I really think just like his Firstborn, Gwyn does not hate dragons. Thus another reason (for me) to believe Gwyn did not banish his son.

Elaborate under the cut

To be more clear, i think he saw them more like challenges/ targets that needed to be eliminated to bring forth his age, rather than something inevitable like the Dark. If it was necessary, he had no problem using them or granting them power.

Evidences:

He rewarded Seath handsomely (title, servants, knowledge and property) and still maintain connection with him even after the war, to the point making him part of his family. Seath was not killed after running out of use, nor contained like the pygmies

Dragons were employed by the gods. Most notable example is Midir, who was guarding The Ringed City - a city built by Gwyn himself. An other instance I'd like to point out is the blue drakes in the Valley of Drakes, who could use lightning and was guarding the entrance to New Londo Ruins (in cut content there were also blue drakes in Anor Londo).

So basically what I'm trying to say is, Gwyn clearly sided with the dragons in some way, as much as he ever "sided" with anyone, you know how he was. To him, the Dark is a way bigger threat. He was the aggressor side during the war against ancient dragons ("They gained the power of Kings and challenged the ancient dragons in battle") but he was lowkey helpless against stopping the Age of Dark, to the point he was willing to immolate himself.

With that said, what's up with the whole "banishing" thing of the Firstborn? He was explicitly stated banished because of siding with dragons.

True, but it's never stated that it was Gwyn who banished him. You know what is stated? "Lord Gwyn resisted the course of nature, by sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans." (Kaathe's dialogue)

In the Japanese version, it is specifically said he commanded his SONS. The Firstborn and Gwyndolin was meant to take over and be left in charge of the Chosen Undead rite. That's why there was a whole statue of him at the Undead Parish, while Gwyndolin was too self conscious and used their sister image instead.

And what's next "When the eldest son was stripped of his deific status, he left this on his father's coffin, perhaps as a final farewell." (Sunlight Blade)

To me this is the clearest evidence of the take "Gwyn already left to link the fire by the time the Firstborn was banished, and had nothing to do with it".

With all of these together, I truly believe Gwyn would not do something like banishing the only son inherited his light of the sun, left alone for something he already did before. Like come on, the Firstborn was unmatched in military power (Japanese description of Great Sunlight Spear), had his divine power and was loved by his warriors - clearly a practical ruler like Gwwyn would see that there's more uses for him to stay rather than stripping him of his deific status.

My explanation for the banishment are usually either 1. He left on his own will (evidence: he still kept his crown and thus his honor as a King) and people couldn't say that the king fucking ditched or 2. Lloyd needed to seize power so he made every other gods side with him to use the "siding with dragons" as an excuse to make him step down from the role. Lloyd clearly craved that "Allfather" title and clearly the only thing stopping him was the eldest son of Gwyn.

[ornsteinbignaturals]

Never ever say sorry about tag rambling. Long tags bring me JOY 💥💯❤️‍🔥

[wraith-caller]

some notes about what even is a tarnished

-Tarnished are warriors who either left the Lands Between with Godfrey himself[1, 2], or are descended from those who did so[3]. So, while some Tarnished would have been born in and lived for some time in the Lands Between prior to Radagon becoming the second Elden Lord, others may have never stepped foot in TLB until being called by grace to return.

-Some Tarnished were once residents of the Lands Between who had grace. Because of this, there are certain creatures that are incompatible with being Tarnished. An Albinauric Tarnished does not make much sense, as these have never had grace[4]. A mimic tear Tarnished is similar, as they are also graceless, man-made life forms[5]. A man-serpent Tarnished would not exist, as man-serpents were spawned from the union of Rykard and Eiglay during the Shattering(so, after Tarnished have already been exiled from the Lands Between)[6]. A TWLID Tarnished is the same, as TWLID did not exist until after Godwyn's death. [22]

-A misbegotten or omen Tarnished is unlikely, as these people are highly discriminated against by the Golden Order. Misbegotten were kept as slaves[7], and omen either culled or sent to live in the Shunning Grounds[8]. Merchants would be in a similar situation. As such, it'd be very difficult to imagine Godfrey, Elden Lord of the Order which enforces this oppression, would count such undesirables among a group of warriors he deems 'kinfolk'(another point for there being no TWLID Tarnished, too).

-There are ancient dragon[9] and 'nightfolk'[10] Tarnished. Little is known about them. The former may be a result of a union between man and dragon, or may simply be ancient dragons assuming a human form. Given that the ancient dragons became part of the Golden Order, it appears possible that some of those dragons may have been divested of grace and left with Godfrey. The nightfolk are more mysterious. They are rumored to 'bleed silver', which may indicate ties with the people of the Eternal Cities in spite of that group's adversarial relationship with the Greater Will and Golden Order. There are also Numen Tarnished[11], who would be of the same people as Marika herself.

-The Tarnished left the Lands Between by boats sometime between Godfrey being sent away from Marika, and Radagon being called to her side[12]. From this, we can understand a few things about who among the royal families a Tarnished could have known personally, if they used to live in the Lands Between: A Tarnished could not have known Malenia or Miquella, as they are children of Radagon and Marika and the Tarnished have already been exiled by this point. A Tarnished could have known the Carian children, as they would have been born before Radagon was called to Marika's side. As Caria is part of the Golden Order by the time Tarnished are exiled, it is feasible for Tarnished to have hailed from Liurnia. It is unlikely a Tarnished would have known the omen twins, as they were kept secret and shunned in the sewers. It is possible for a Tarnished to have known Godwyn, given that he is the son of the man they would be following into exile. A Tarnished may have known Messmer, but would not have been in his service at the point in which he was sealed away in the Land of Shadows, otherwise, they could not become Tarnished. Too little is known about Melina to say much one way or the other.

-As far as we can tell, Tarnished were given grace again only after the Shattering. [13, 14]

-Some Tarnished end up seeing the guidance of grace again. Some see it only after they have died and are revived(it is likely they die and are given a new life wherein they see grace upon waking again[15]), while others see it while still living and are exiled, making a journey to the Lands Between via ship[16, 17, 18].

-A few Tarnished have made substantial progress on their quest to become lord. Vyke came closest of all, probably having gained two great runes[19, 20], while Bernahl also appears to have made a bid for lordship given his maiden was burned[21]. It is possible Juno Hoslow also made the attempt, as we can find a burned body wearing the Traveling Maiden's set in the Shack of the Lofty, just next to where we kill invade him for the Volcano Manor quest. But, this is less certain.

Who are Tarnished characters in the game?

Godfrey, the first Tarnished (see 1)

Goldmask (opening cinematic)

Fia the Deathbed Companion (opening cinematic)

The Dung Eater (opening cinematic)

Gideon Ofnir (opening cinematic)

Brother Corhyn (Corhyn's robe: "Even after exile, Corhyn refused to recant his prophecies. And for this, he was blessed with the guidance of grace.")

Diallos and Juno Hoslow. (Juno and Lanya are both hunted by recusants, who target Tarnished)

D Hunter of the Dead and D Beholder of Death (Fia's Mist kills D Hunter. Fia's Mist: This sorcery was developed to oppose the Roundtable Hold, and is effective only against the Tarnished.)

Sorcerer Rogier (Rogier: "I'm Tarnished, like you.")

Blackguard Big Boggart (Boggart: "Can you see it then? The guidance of grace, I mean. I can't see it at all no more.")

Patches (Patches: "You're Tarnished, like me.")

Bloody Finger Hunter Yura (Yura: "There are other Tarnished, like me, who hunt the Bloody Fingers.")

Spirit Tuner Roderika (Roderika: "I never knew the guidance bestowed upon us Tarnished had such fantastic roots.")

Nepheli Loux (Nepheli: "I am Nepheli Loux. Tarnished and warrior, like you.")

Recusant Bernahl (Bernahl: "Name's Bernahl. Tarnished, just like you.")

Vyke (see 20)

Violet Bloody Finger Eleonora (Yura: "I am Yura. Hunter of Bloody Fingers. Tarnished held in thrall by cessblood."

Bloody Finger Ravenmount (Bloody Fingers are Tarnished)

Bloody Finger Nerijus (see above)

Bloody Finger Okina (see above)

Great Horned Tragoth (Letter to Patches: "A written request from Volcano Manor addressed to Patches disclosing the name of a Tarnished to be hunted.")

Old Knight Istvan (Scaled Helm: "Istvan is one of a few wizened Tarnished who survive to this day.")

Rileigh the Idle (Letter from Volcano Manor: "A written request from Volcano Manor disclosing the name of a Tarnished to be hunted.")

Vargram the Raging Wolf (Raging Wolf Helm: "one of the first Tarnished to visit the Roundtable Hold.")

Errant Sorcerer Wilhelm (Errant Sorcerer Robe: "one of the first Tarnished to visit Roundtable Hold.")

Anastasia Tarnished Eater (Diallos: "The recusants who hunt their fellow Tarnished.", defeat of Anastasia gives the message 'recusant vanquished)

Recusant Henricus (see above)

Dolores, Sleeping Arrow - There's some uncertainty. The Dolores puppet says, "Dolores once belonged to the Roundtable Hold", and the Roundtable Hold is described as "a place where Tarnished gather". However, there are at least three non-Tarnished present: Enia, the twin maiden husks, and Hewg, as well as a possible fourth in Ensha.

Mad Tongue Alberich - Like Dolores, it's a bit uncertain. His set says he was in "service to the Roundtable Hold long ago".

Footnotes

[1]Remembrance of Hoarah Loux: When Godfrey, first Elden Lord was robbed of his grace, becoming Tarnished, he took with him his kinfolk and left the Lands Between. After the Long March of the Tarnished came to an end, Godfrey divested himself of kingship, becoming a simple warrior once more.

[2]Marika, via Mellina: My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring. Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.

[3]Inferred from dialog from various Tarnished characters. For example, Rogier says, "I won't forget how it felt when I first came here, to the Lands Between," a statement which implies he has not been in the Lands Between until called there by grace. Similarly Roderika says she is a "recent arrival" who "never knew the guidance bestowed upon us Tarnished had such fantastic roots", something one from the Lands Between ought to be familiar with.

[4]Albinauric Bloodclot: Albinaurics are lifeforms made by human hands. Thus, many believe them to live impure lives, untouched by the Erdtree's grace.

[5]Mimic Tear Ashes: Mimic tears are the result of an attempt by the Eternal City to forge a lord.

[6]Man-Serpent Ashes: It is said that long ago, the elder serpent that dwelled on Mt. Gelmir devoured a demigod, and the birth of the man-serpents followed.

[7]Winged Misbegotten Ashes: The misbegotten are held to be a punishment for making contact with the Crucible, and from birth they are treated as slaves, or worse.

[8]Regal Omen Bairn: Omen babies born of royalty do not have their horns excised, but instead are kept underground, unbeknownst to anyone, imprisoned for eternity.

[9]Character creator: The stony face of the people of the ancient dragons, among whom life is typically short.

[10]Character creator: The features of those known as Nightfolk. Few in number, they were said to bleed silver long ago.

[11]Character creator: The face of the Numen, supposed descendants of denizens of another world. Long-lived but seldom born.

[12]Miriel: However. When Godfrey, first Elden Lord, was hounded from the Lands Between, Radagon left Rennala to return to the Erdtree Capital, becoming Queen Marika's second husband and King Consort. Taking the title...of second Elden Lord.

[13]Enia: Ahh, Great Runes are the stuff of demigods; the children of the goddess, Queen Marika. She who is vessel of the Elden Ring. Tainted by the strength of their runes, her children warred, but none could become Elden Lord. And so grace was extended, to your kind, the Tarnished.

[14]The Two Fingers, via Enia: Great Elden Ring, root of the Golden Order. Anchor of all lands, giver of grace, wellspring of all joy. Until it was shattered. The tragic corruption of the Order has taken its toll. Across the realm, life lies in ruin. Fallen to pieces. Foul curses and misery spread, unabating. But the Greater Will has not abandoned the realm, nor the life that inhabits it. So it is that the Tarnished are guided by grace. Called to act.

[15]Varre: Are you familiar with grace? The golden light that gives life to you Tarnished.

[16]Crimson Hood: A hooded cloak of vivid crimson. Worn by expatriated royalty. Such cloaks were gifted to those who departed on journeys without specific orders, to faraway lands from which they would never return. In other words, the gift of a cloak made it easier for undesirables to be on their way. Roderika never once saw the guidance of grace.

[17]Roderika: Everyone who came with me. They crossed the sea for me. They fought, for me.

[18] The above two points taken together inform us that not all Tarnished must die before seeing grace. Given that Roderika was 'accused' of seeing grace while never having seen it and was sent away as a result, it must be possible that not all Tarnished die first otherwise it would be quite plain she has not seen grace if she must first die. There is also the case of Fia, who says before she could "bear the noble into new life, [she] was awakened by the guidance of grace, and chased from [her] birthplace."

[19]Enia: Only once before have I seen two Great Runes together.

[20]Fingerprint Helm: No other Tarnished was closer to the throne of the Elden Lord than Vyke.

[21]Beast Champion Armor: Beasts are drawn to champions, and to lords. And this armor befits a champion worthy of becoming a lord. And that is what Bernahl was. Until his maiden threw herself into the fire.

[22]Skeletal Bandit Ashes: After the night of the plot, Deathroot appeared in the Lands Between, and Those Who Live in Death soon followed.

[culannshound]

godhood and the nature of the world

For me some of the most interesting dialogue delivered in the DLC comes from Ymir when you ask him about the nature of the world:

"I fear that you have borne witness to the whole of it. The conceits – the hypocrisy – of the world built upon the Erdtree. The follies of men. Their bitter suffering. Is there no hope for redemption? The answer, sadly, is clear. There never was any hope. They were each of them defective. Unhinged, from the start. Marika herself. And the fingers that guided her. And this is what troubles me. No matter our efforts, if the roots are rotten, …then we have little recourse."

Immediately upon hearing this dialogue I thought of the item description for the Mending Rune of Perfect Order:

"The current imperfection of the Golden Order, or instability of ideology, can be blamed upon the fickleness of the gods no better than men. That is the fly in the ointment."

I think Ymir and Goldmask are essentially stating the same fundamental ideas here, and that these ideas hit upon a key theme of the entire game: human beings should not become gods.

Marika's traumatic origins are laid bare at the Bonny and Shaman Villages. The extermination of her people through such disturbing means no doubt left her horribly scarred. The spirit in the Whipping Hut spells out how the Potentates treated the Shaman:

"For pity's sake, your place is in the jar. Nigh-sainthood itself awaits your within. For shamans like you, this is your lot. Life were you accorded for this alone."

And the Minor Erdtree incantation demonstrates her bereavement:

Marika bathed the village of her home in gold, knowing full well that there was no one to heal.

We know, too, from Ymir that the Fingers were just as broken as Marika, the children of an abandoned mother.

"Do you recall what I said? That Marika, and the fingers that guided her, were unsound from the start. Well, the truth lies deeper still. It is their mother who is damaged and unhinged. The fingers are but unripe children. Victims in their own right. We all need a mother, do we not? A new mother, a true mother, who will not give birth to further malady."

And the Staff of the Great Beyond gives us further context behind this:

The Mother received signs from the Greater Will from the beyond of the microcosm. Despite being broken and abandoned, she kept waiting for another message to come.

Marika's ascension to godhood placed a traumatized person in a position of ultimate power. Yes, the Hornsent did terrible, unspeakable things to the Shaman people and employed a truly brutal inquisition, but there is no excuse for what Marika did to them through her Crusade. There is no excuse for what she did to the Hornsent, or to the Fire Giants, or to any of the victims of the Golden Order's colonizing mission. The game makes this abundantly clear. Did Hornsent's wife and child deserve to die by Messmer's flames? Does the Hornsent Grandam deserve to remain alone and abandoned, her home crumbling around her? What about the Dried Bouquet, a talisman you find in Belurat:

A quaint bouquet of dried flowers, offered to a small grave.

Raises attack power when a spirit you have summoned dies.

The sorrow that flows from the untimely demise of a loved one is a tenderness shared by all, regardless of birthplace.

The game even draws parallels between the Hornsent Inquisition and the Golden Order's torture methods in the description of the Ash of War: Golden Crux on the Greatsword of Damnation:

Leap up and skewer foe from overhead. If successful, the weapon's barbs unfold to excruciate from within; else, additional input releases barbs in the area. There is something of the Golden Order in the sight of those fixed upon this crux.

After dark, does Limgrave not fill with the screams of the crucified? There is no perfect society— there is no society whose crimes warrant absolute extermination. By giving her the capacity for limitless violence, godhood has made Marika into the perpetrator of some of the greatest crimes in the Lands Between.

We see this effect happening in real time through Miquella's story. While his ideology may initially seem admirable — redemption for those oppressed by the Golden Order, redemption for the Hornsent — on his road to godhood, he abandons everything that matters. The path to godhood is an inherently dehumanizing process and requires of Miquella for him to cast aside everything that makes him him.

Ymir says about Miquella that:

"Ever-young Miquella saw things for what they were. He knew that his bloodline was tainted. His roots mired in madness. A tragedy if ever there was one. That he would feel compelled to renounce everything. When the blame…lay squarely with the mother."

What I believe Ymir is articulating here is that Miquella seeks to atone for his mother's crimes and remove the corrupt order by usurping her position as god, even though he personally is not to blame for these deeds. Hornsent states similar ideas:

"Miquella has said as much himself – he wishes now to throw it all away. He says the act – though undoubtedly painful – will sear clean the Erdtree’s wanton sin. The truth of his claim can be found at each cross. Tis evidence enough to earn my belief."

"Uphold his covenant Miquella shall, and in godhood redeem our rueful clan. Then Marika, and vilest Erdtree both, will at last be from divinity wrench’d."

But in order to replace Marika, Miquella must also commit terrible crimes: he abandons his other half, he beguiles even those who would oppose him into being his very own blind followers. He charmed Mohg and violated his corpse, and Radahn's consent in this whole matter is dubious. In trying to make up for Marika's atrocities by becoming god of a new, kinder age, Miquella leaves behind a whole host of his own sins.

I believe that "the conceits – the hypocrisy – of the world built upon the Erdtree" and "the fickleness of the gods no better than men" are addressing this same idea. Miquella and Marika are no more special or inherently better than anyone else; they become fickle gods and establish hypocritical orders because no human being is perfect enough to wield absolute power with an even hand. Even Ymir himself falls prey to this thinking: he believes he can be a better mother than the ones before him, but he is just as broken as he rightfully points out they were.

This theme goes hand-in-hand with the story's emphasis on the Tarnished as the new inheritors of the Lands Between. From the very beginning, it establishes that it is the Tarnished who are chosen to succeed Radagon as Elden Lord, not the demigods. The intro cinematic announces this:

"Arise now, ye Tarnished. Ye dead, who yet live. The call of long-lost grace speaks to us all. Hoarah Loux, chieftan of the badlands. The ever-brilliant Goldmask. Fia, the Deathbed Companion. The loathsome Dung Eater. And Sir Gideon Ofnir, the All-knowing. And one other. Whom grace would again bless. A Tarnished of no renown. Cross the fog, to the Lands Between. To stand before the Elden Ring. And become the Elden Lord."

Enia translates for the Fingers that the Greater Will itself has abandoned the demigods:

"The Greater Will has long renounced the demigods. Tarnished, show no mercy. Have their heads. Take all they have left."

We the "Tarnished of no renown" enter the story at a major crossroads. The time of fickle Marika and her warring demigods is over: by the time we defeat Radagon and the Elden Beast, she is only an empty husk. We are ushering in a new age in which gods are no longer the primary overlords of the Lands Between, in which the power is vested in ordinary people.

I think the array of endings offered up to us further demonstrates this point. Every unique ending, save one, is based around the ideology of a Tarnished, whether it be Goldmask, Fia, Dungeater, or you as the Lord of Frenzied Flame. The only ending themed around a demigod is Ranni's. I've seen people complain before about how you can't side with the demigods and bring about the worlds they envision —Mohg's Age of Blood, Miquella's Age of Compassion, Rykard's destruction of the very gods themselves— but I think this goes against the primary themes of Elden Ring's story. The time of Marika and her demigods is over: now rises the age of the Tarnished. This is why Ranni succeeds where her siblings fail: she wants no power for herself because she, too, recognizes that nothing good can come of a human becoming a god. She explains as much:

"_Mine will be an order not of gold, but the stars and moon of the chill night. I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet. As it is now, life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove. And have the certainties of sight, emotion, faith, and touch… All become impossibilities."

Ranni does not wish to become the god of the Greater Will and the worshipped figurehead of the Golden Order. She wishes to set herself apart so that she cannot interfere in the affairs of the Lands Between, unlike Marika and her regime. Ranni's ending reinforces the agency of the Tarnished, while Mohg and Miquella and Rykard's endings still focus around themselves.

Godhood is a dehumanizing force that turns individuals into the most corrupt versions of themselves; the main story sees us supplanting the old, rotten order of the gods as an exiled nobody.

And I think there's no better summation of these themes than Ansbach's dying words:

"Righteous Tarnished. Become our new lord. A lord not for gods, but for men."

[guidance-eternal]

i don't think about melina that often but ever since the dlc confirmed she's a demigod i started enjoying her part in elden ring's story much more. or specifically how her part is completely different from what you'd expect from a demigod!

elden ring's story is heavily built around the presence of marika's family who are portrayed as these legendary, larger than life figures, warriors of myth praised in song who compete for their ambition to change the lands between. their reputations precede them, before you meet each demigod you will likely hear at least one person talk about them and most of them even have an area specifically dedicated to their characterization or the presentation of their influence. even their physical size communicates importance, they're all physically huge because their legacies and ambitions and ideas are huge. it sets a precedent as to what it means to be a demigod.

meanwhile melina contradicts almost everything i just said. no great rune, no title, no followers, no military force, no part in the shattering, no interaction with other demigods, no fanfare at all (and she's tarnished-sized). barely anyone acknowledges her existence, much less her lineage. she's never listed among marika's children and never even explicitly stated to be a demigod. melina does mention her mother a lot but never outright confirms that she means queen marika, only that "[She] was born at the foot of the Erdtree, where [her] mother gave [her] [her] purpose." and while it's probably clear to the everyone that she means marika (...i didn't get it at first teehee), melina's wording makes it sound as though it's irrelevant who her mother was exactly.

and isn't that just so fascinating? she's not secretive of who her mother is per se - who else could deliver a child at the foot of the erdtree - but at the same time being a demigod is kind of a huge deal, so there must be a reason behind why she doesn't mention her mother's name and doesn't revel in being a demigod. we see a few demigods reject their connection to marika but nonetheless utilize the potential and influence of their birthright, all assuming some kind of position of power, meanwhile melina seems completely withdrawn from that line of thinking. to be a child of marika is to be born special. melina doesn't exactly reject that part of herself - she is dedicated to her special purpose of burning the erdtree and has an ambition to change the world - but doesn't concern herself with being a figurehead or being associated with marika. she assumes the role of a quiet observer and doesn't engage when her siblings are writing history. and because there's a certain way to be a demigod, perhaps she feels it's unwarranted to include herself among them by saying her mother is marika? or maybe there's a different reason for why she's withdrawn and doesn't call her mother by her name.

so the question is why??? i can't help but think of these words spoken by marika:

melina is neither a lord nor a god. if we assume her and the gloam-eyed queen are one and the same (or maybe a st. trina type situation?) we could say she tried to be both a lord and a god but ultimately failed. whatever the case may be, at the time the story takes placs melina is presumably no longer playing that role anyway, seemingly only coming back to it when faced with the threat of frenzy. so if we also consider how melina has not made a name for herself in the lands between (at least not melina the demigod daughter of marika because melina the gloam-eyed queen did), in marika's eyes, melina really has "failed to become aught at all". moreover the very purpose melina keeps mentioning aka being the kindling maiden is quite literally a form of sacrifice. so her circumstances play exactly into marika's speech! and in my personal reading, melina is keenly aware of that. i always found melina's tone to be quite somber, it would make sense for her to carry such sadness in her voice if she understands that marika considers her a failure.

and i wonder which came first - is melina's current unaffiliation with marika a result of failing to become a lord/god as the gloam-eyed queen and being forskaen by marika OR was melina always reluctant to identify with her demigod birthright and marika forsook her because of it? ORRR even better in my opinion: melina's vital purpose, appointed by marika at birth, inseparably ties her to her mother's designs and never gives her a chance to find a calling of her own, which leads her to solemnly wait for the moment her purpose can be fulfilled. the speech is not directed at her because she never had the choice to become anything other than what marika chose for her. in this interpretation her withdrawal from demigod drama reads more like an understanding that there is nothing more for her than what marika decided so it's better to fade into the background than fruitlessly try to rebel - maybe her gloam-eyed queen activity was one such act of fruitless rebellion that changed her attitude? i spent a lot of time pondering but unfortunately i don't have a solid conclusion to this reading yet. of course i don't claim this is 100% canon but it's fun to speculate!

i'll finish with two things that i still can't quite get to click, both of which trace back to this:

1. if we assume the role of kindling maiden bestowed upon melina is the reason for her withdrawal from the rest of the demigods and that it's generally a burden, then why does she still want to carry out this duty even after admitting she doesn't care about what marika intended for her? did something happen specifically? maybe she just realized that she can use this power for her own vision and not just marika's? either way happy for you girl

2. i still can't come up with a satisfying explanation as to why she doesn't call marika by her name. what i mentioned before about melina not exactly fitting the demigod label does not seem like reason enough for her, i don't think she'd gaf about comparing herself to others. maybe im reading into it too much, maybe since you can deduct that it's marika from the context she just doesn't say it outright because there's no need to, this sort of mutual understanding between melina and the tarnished is also a charming reading!

[katyspersonal]

I've had some old gods and Fell God thoughts again

(Reference by Moonlight Ruin ( x ), note that giant skulls can vary in sizes and be like 55m too)

I addressed the arrowhead description at some point before, but again; seeing how there are colossal skulls found across the Lands Between, there were 'old gods' who weren't Outer Gods and the greatsword is a tip of an arrow from their arsenal, they were REALLY big in size! Yet, also humanoid in build

I am not sure what they needed weapons for though. Who were they battling? When there are many colossal skulls, I question if that wasn't a war between their own that didn't leave survivors? Or they've lost whatever that war was? Could they have battled against Ancient Dragons, who also must have used to be bigger and stronger back then, for ownership of Elden Ring? Or it were Drakes that they were fighting, back when they were as big as the one found at Altar of Dragon Communion?

And, yeah, Fell God is never referred to as an Outer God unlike the three others, so what if he just wasn't one? Needless to mention that he is depicted as a humanoid, just cyclopic when old gods otherwise had regular two eyes! Outer Gods are just not humanoid; they're a scorpion-like creature (Scorpion's Stinger is a part of God of Rot), formless being and.. one not shown, but associated with birds!

Hornsent on the other hand envisioned him with two eyes and covered in horns, but it feels more like just an interpretation I think? Since mark of Fell God on Giants that worshipped him is still a cyclopic face with a beard, I guess this look is truer one.. just not that Hornsent would know about that!

Also could Fell God's fire be the source of fire that animates Golems and was used for forges in the Lands Between? A lot of Golems are found in Mountaintops, and they originate from Rauh too; cave where you fight Makar and cave where you fight a Golem as a boss (and find Blue Dancer charm) have Rauh architecture!

Even the Giants' forge itself has Rauh architecture! And.... well, it is forge. Can be used to create weapons. And there is fire in there. And Ancient Meteoric Ore Greatsword is found in the forge connected to Rauh as well! It is also a meteoric ore, the arrowheads of old gods weapons were made of rock from space. And you remember how Fire Giants and Astrologers were allied? A sentiment specified in Sword of Night and Flame stored in Caria, and also Japanese description of Rellana's swords saying "after all Moon and Fire were always together"! And also some Golems using magic too I guess:

Since Makar is a Magma Wyrm, so a person consuming too much Dragon Hearts (a practice of hunting Drakes), and Fire Giants were at war with Ice Drakes, maybe it really were Drakes that old gods were battling with? They were way more big and impressive in ancient history, like the dead guy on the Altar! Heck, maybe Bayle and Placidusax just shrunk in size over having lived for way too long?

Though I wonder whether Fell God was always 'Fell', or he undergone some sort of corruption? Maybe he "came back wrong" after being injured or killed at some point before Marika did it again much later in history? After all Fire Giants but one were dead, Marika realized that the fire of ruin could never be put down! That's why she cursed the last survivor to tend to it!

Basically? Maybe same thing applied to old gods; all of them died except for Fell God? He simply could not, for some reason? He could lose body, but his nature is within the fire of the forge itself...? Feels like something one would do to themselves rather than a natural thing, and he cursed himself with becoming element to lend others flame and weapons for whatever reason needed? Cursed himself with immortality to make world something else, ironically just like Marika did! Though I still love the idea that he is 'evil' because for people the use of his flame was primarily for warfare.. The flame can make rock statues into life, let alone warmth and guidance, but all everyone wanted from it was weapons and destructive power, so it rubbed onto him....

But, yeah, he is a really unusual entity, and really super ancient. As for why potential hostility of his kind towards dragons or drakes, that survived for generations? The idea of "cleaning" the landscape from dragons to build upon freed territory is something ever since Dark Souls trilogy! Elden Ring adops a bit too much from those, might as well :p

____________

P.S.: Nox were super ancient too, not far from ancient civilization and Rauh, and are progenitors of Astrologers and following sorcerers who originally were hostile to the Erdtree same as Flame of Ruin.. Nox also had the Black Moon, and also Night/Moon and Flame are "allies" in this lore, also Fire and Moonlight being allies is also a big DS thing.... if turns out Lord of Night and Fell God were allied and similar entities in nature I am going to have the biggest brain explosion yet. Literally no other ship would beat a yaoi like this

[val-of-the-north]

I was about to just reblog this on its own, but when you mentioned Drakes as potential enemies of these Old Gods I felt compelled to check something, and...

... the giant dead Drake in the Land of Shadow was seemingly stabbed in the neck by a long shaft of ore. It's not a normal rock formation as it looks nothing like any of the stones of the area, and it looks a lot like a decayed blade. Could it be one of the remains of this fabled arsenal of the Old Gods? It seems too big to have been wielded by one of the Fire Giants after all.

And if so, their enemies might have been the Drakes after all... or maybe this was back when they were still allied with the Ancient Dragons, so it was a battle between Giants and Dragons in general. Either way, this is really interesting.

[katyspersonal]

wait Nito? as in gravelord nito? he has a wife?

A little correction: he HAD a wife! :>

Just look at this empty coffin next to him! XD

In fact, something even more interesting: not only he had a wife, but they also had a child who was so significant for the family that it is always addressed in the symbolism connected to Nito's family!

Notice how not only Nito's acolytes all wear the three masks of Father, Mother and Child, but also how there is a secret third small coffin next to the larger two!

It is slightly easy to skip on because people assume the masks refer to Pinwheel since the description says they belong to him, but it is a description logic Fromsoft already uses often! For example, Gold-Hemmed Set is not unique to Quelaana but description says it is her clothes, Saint's Set is not unique to Licia but description says it is her clothes, etc. Here, a similar logic is used and we already meet acolytes before Nito's arena who are definitely not Pinwheel nor even his created fake copies as they are fought like normal enemies and drop either of these masks! Besides, imagery of the masks is placed across the catacombs like architecture:

I think Nito's wife was a goddess of water because Mask of Mother literally has watery motif, as well as the area before Nito's arena has a body of water where baby skeletons are endlessly born!

And I think their child was Caitha, Goddess of Tears! She is explicitly connected with death and grief, but also with water and the Deep. Heck, Deacons of the Deep took the cathedral that formerly belonged to her, and Aldrich uses the exact replica of Nito's blade but only purple instead of orange! Sealers of New Londo also used to be healers, used water to seal the city, and Yulva's sorcery (Remedy) is almost identical to the miracle of Morne, follower of Caitha (Caressing Tears) + these and Ingward's sorcery all use blue splash-like particles! Though @val-of-the-north explained it better ( x )

Whereas Caitha left to travel across the lands searching for people that might need her help, support and maybe healing, Nito's wife's whereabouts are up to speculation XD

UPDATE: Caitha is not only death and water, but also:

アクア - word 'aqua'

クァト - Quato, Caitha's name in Japanese original

ニト - Nito

Yeeeeeah, Caitha's name is a fusion of Nito's name and some name that had 'aqua' in it fdjhhfsd This shit writes itself

[menininini]

made a ranni ref sheet, mayhap this could come in handy for people <3

[go-go-devil]

The Everlasting Dragon In Ash Lake Was Once A Human Being

Yes, really.

Look, there are a LOT of theories about pretty much every character in the original Dark Souls, as was the intention of this game, but in my humble opinion one of the most mysterious and compelling characters of all is the Everlasting Dragon of Ash Lake. The last survivor of the war against the archdragons, hidden away in a small pocket of how the world once was and recruiting undead to evolve into dragons themselves. A very compelling creature to be sure!

However, the more I've looked into both the design and odd quirks of this dragon, the more I've come to the conclusion that this beast is not a "descendant" of the Ancients in the traditional sense...

First, let's take a look at the model and compare it to the few good shots we get of the archdragons in the intro cutscene. Screenshots of Everlasting Dragon close-ups & unused animations were taken from this video by youtuber Crest:

That is quite an odd look compared to those of the ones that came before it! Its eyes are pitch black and appear more forward facing (if the archdragons even have eyes to compare it to, I can't see them at all in these shots!). More notable, however, is that its body is coated in a thick layer of fur that the archdragons notably lack. The two pairs of wings are definitely an exact match, but there are already enough differences to at least raise an eyebrow.

But I expected many of you have already guessed this isn't an actual archdragon. The description of the dragon greatsword you get from cutting off its tail plainly states that it is a "descendant of the ancient dragons," NOT the last of its kind. Seath, Kalameet, and the Gaping Dragon are close descendants too and they also look radically different from the Ancients. What point am I making with this observation?

Here's my point. Study the model again, especially its legs:

And now check out at one of its unused poses:

This dragon isn't sitting down like any tetrapod animal would; its hind legs are crossed in a meditating position. The unused pose goes even further in showing off how unnaturally human-like the dragon appears, but that's not all! My next piece of evidence lies in its claws, or should I say, "hands."

Those are four fingers and a thumb, all in the EXACT shape of a human hand!

To better show just how bizarre this is for a dragon to have, let's compare this to Seath and Kalameet's own hands/paws:

Just like all the wyverns, these closest descendants of the Ancients are tetradactyl. They lack the fifth digit that the everlasting dragon has, showing even more just how unnatural this is for a dragon to possess. This design detail remains consistent within the entire series, as the two other major descendants we see in the sequels, Sinh and Midir, also possess only four-digit toes.

I should note that the Gaping Dragon is also unique in that it possesses five digits on its two hind legs and six digits on its front paws, but those lack the human fingers & toes resemblance and instead appear much more like lizard feet.

And all of this isn't even the CRUX of my theory!

I want you all to remember when you first encountered the dragon at the very end of Ash Lake. Wasn't it a bit strange that the bonfire in front of it was already lit and filled your estus flask up to ten?

The only other bonfires in the world which are already kindled by the time you reach them are ones tended to by firekeepers, and all firekeepers are tied closely to humanity (yes, even the Fair Lady, since demons have also been shown to possess humanity + she too has a firekeeper's soul).

Now the picture is complete! At some point in the past a human, specifically a firekeeper, had found her way into the depths of Ash Lake and by means still unknown to us managed to transcend her human form and become the (near) perfect image of an Everlasting Dragon!

It makes sense why this dragon isn't hostile to us, but it more so explains why the Dragon Covenant even exists in the first place. The Undead, like the archdragons and their closest descendants, are functionally immortal beings in their cursed state. It's the very reason why Seath the Scaleless became so obsessed with studying them. The way I see it, the Everlasting One and the dragon apostles who discovered her/it see their undead state not as a "curse," but instead as a means of evolving into a superior form free of all pain and suffering.

The dragon being a firekeeper also makes sense thematically with how its covenant works. Much like how we give the souls of deceased firekeepers to a living one in order to strengthen our estus flask, the Everlasting Dragon needs us to bring dragon scales taken from deceased dragons and/or dragon relatives in order to strengthen our form as a dragonoid. In a sense, the dragon head and torso stones given to us are as much the soul of the once-human firekeeper as estus.

In conclusion, never underestimate a scalie's determination! 🐲

[sillovain]

Denizens of Heaven

Part 2, trying to take stock of the various gods of Elden Ring. All lore essays -> #Treesandbeasts

Elden Ring uses the word "god" (much like giant, dragon or even human) in a non-specific way. Still, I don't think it is controversial to say that The Scarlet Rot and Marika are not equivalent entities.

On one hand, you could argue for a political definition of godhood - "anything worshipped as a god is one to it's followers". This can be true, but within ER, gods seem to come in at least 2 distinct types - the Outer Gods (distant, abstract, unknowable) and the "Worldly Gods" (deified mortals that walk the earth).

1.1 Celestial Powers

For the Outer Gods (incl. The Greater Will for simplicity sake, though its debatable), you can say the following about how these entities are characterized.

They are not limited by physical space - think about how the influence of Scarlet Rot and Formless Mother can manifest in both the Land of Shadow and The Lands Between, the veil does nothing to stop them. There is also nothing to suggest that Outer God influence needs to be spread in a physical manner. Rather it seems that Outer Gods are omnipresent but are only encounterable by people in great suffering - Romina simply discovers the Scarlet Rot after being immolated, likewise for the Bloodfiends and their tutelary.

They are unknowable - there is nothing that we can point to in-game as being the spoken words of an Outer God, nor is there any known/definable goal for these entities. When there is a claimed connection (eg. Greater Will), contact has filters (fingers + priestesses), is not in real time; and the reality of said connection is spurious anyway (as per. Metyr).

They have envoys - every cosmic god seems to have mortal representatives that manifest it's power on the worldly scale. Mohg with The Formless Mother, The Twinbird with it's unknown god etc.

Whatever they are, these are not personified gods. Which then leads to the question: are Outer Gods even sentient? Sure, the Scarlet Rot consumes and spreads, but so does any fungal colony. The Formless Mother is the only one that seems to have wants or a relationship with its followers. But even then, this is a simple give-and-take affair, is it any more complex than the relationship between cultivator and crop?

You offer blood to the Formless Mother so you can cut it's body for blood. You offer water to a tree so you can cut it's body for wood.

I stress this because the "Outer Gods are simply forces of nature" line of thinking has become very compelling to me. There's really nothing to suggest they behave on a level more complex than a bacterial one. Perhaps they are forces seen as being particularly dangerous, but still simply forces nonetheless. Note that the known Outer Gods are rot, blood and death (The Twinbird's God) respectively.

All these aspects require the existence of life. Since The Greater Will is the originator of life, the known Outer Gods could be thought of as being dependent (even parasitic) on said creation.

Rot in a controlled form is fermentation (as per. Verdigris and Forager Brood items). Something can be both useful but also highly destructive. Think about the relationship between early agricultural societies and rivers, floods or storms.

This is to say; theories that talk about how the Outer Gods have plans, or describe them as personified gods (in either an Abrahamic or Pagan sense) are very unfounded and don't follow how these entities are characterized.

1.2 Celestial Bodies

While the known Outer Gods are never described with a physical form, The Greater Will absolutely has one. Specifically, it appears to be a region of space (The "distant starry expanse" as per. Comet Azur), if not the entirety of the observable cosmos itself (if you read anything into the Microcosm). Thus, there is a very interesting idea that the "cosmic gods" as a whole are celestial objects in the most literal sense.

The Outer Gods are thus "Outer" in the sense that they are outside the golden ring of the microcosm (ie. outside Order). If so, then maybe The Greater Will is categorically something else - or perhaps the "Outerness" is only something of concern to us mortals.

The cultural obsession with astrology becomes self evident, its about tracking the movement of divine celestial objects. Which I guess is also a very literal interpretation of IRL astrological belief that celestial bodies influence life on earth.

If so, then moons are probably also Outer Gods. And the sun? go figure who that is.

2.1 The Worldly Gods

Beginning this section with the following statement - By virtue of their birth, every demigod is already an immortal being with supernatural abilities. Yet, Ranni and Miquella must strive to achieve godhood; it is something that they do not innately have, but can ultimately gain.

The game is quite is explicit about how godhood is a status an empyrean gains through personal ritual journey. The "empyrean path" is very formal, there's an institution (fingers) that selects candidates (empyreans) and even grants a personal magical guard (shadow). From there, the journey as empyrean (as with both Miq/Ranni) only needs a handful of loyal followers and can be done hidden from the public eye.

In all (non FF) endings, the ring either stays in Marika's body or is taken by another ascended empyrean (Ranni). If godhood is simply due to no-one being able to wrest the Elden Ring from Marika, why is there no ending where the player simply takes it and runs? This is to say, Empyrean Flesh has real magic, its not just a title for royal heirs.

As per. Enia, Marika remains a god, vessel of the vision despite her imprisonment. She continues to be god regardless if she actively rules in any capacity.

Message "God Slain" is used for the only 2 people known to have undergone a Divine Gate ritual. Neither Goddess of Rot nor the Gelmir Serpent return this message despite being worshipped as a god by some.

What about Tutelary Deities? the sparse lore on them also implies that it is a state attained by ritual means. (Will write more about them next entry).

The point here is that the essence of godhood does not come from monopolizing power - eliminating all your rivals and getting the world to worship you. Rather it seems to be the opposite. Marika became a god and enough people believed in her vision of the Erdtree age to make it reality, exterminating the Fire Giants and waging wars of expansionism to make her the de-facto power.

Gods are not made by powerful people declaring themselves as such. Instead, people becoming gods makes them powerful.

~ Thanks for reading

[drenched-in-sunlight]

Leda’s dialogue about Miquella being “the true golden child” lives rent free in my head because as much as Miquella wants to divest himself of everything regarding his roots, his most devote follower still seeks pride in his prestige as the best of Marika’s bloodline.

Also that dialogue kinda pitches the golden son of Godfrey >< the golden son of Radagon.

Even though I do believe those boys love and respect each other as brothers, their respective endgame goals do get into each other’s way, isn’t it?

Godwyn’s Duskborn Age will still have Marika as the one true God. Meanwhile Miquella’s prayers + rituals at Sol, if you think about it, will prevent Godwyn from becoming Lord of Death, thus getting in the way of said Age.

Interestingly enough, the weapon skill of Golden Epitaph - which will grant the same effect as Sacred Order and deal extra damage to TWLiD, instead of showing Radagon’s crest, it shows Miquella’s.

If we consider all those details with this one interpretation of Light of Miquella description, I feel like it explains why there are no Omens, no Frenzy Flame merchants, and no TWLiD at the Haligtree.

Those who already serve a different Lord, even if they might accept Miquella as a new God (debatable), will for sure never accept his chosen Lord (Radahn).

I used to think it made more sense for Godwyn to be the DLC final boss as there were more indication of his bond with Miquella, but now that I step back and really analyze everything under the lenses that Godwyn has been devote to his Mother all this time, it makes way more sense that he is never going to be the final boss to begin with.

[blasphemousclaw]

ok so I watched Vaati’s new video on Rykard, really liked it overall but I wanted to go into more detail about what I liked and what I disagreed with. 

Gonna start with a list of the things I loved/found super interesting:

The way he laid out the evidence for Rykard’s inquisition having been on behalf of Leyndell was really really well laid out!!! 

I laughed at the “FAMILEEE” soundbyte 

His discussion about the origins of “hexes” was super cool 

I had never heard of the cut item description linking the Serpent Arrows to Shaded Castle! 

The idea that poison was involved in Rykard’s desecration of the Minor Erdtree… he didn’t mention this, but this idea could explain why there’s sickly greenish growths at its base?  

(Gelmir Minor Erdtree vs. Consecrated Snowfield Minor Erdtree)

Talked about the idea that the Great Serpent grew because of the sacrifices it was fed, then was killed, then came back as a normal-sized snake, that Rykard fed himself to and then grew large due to once again devouring sacrifices

Pointed out that the snakes inside the Abductor Virgins look like metal!!! I thought I was crazy for thinking this

1.0 Daedicar mentioned ‼️

His overall characterization of Rykard and his motivations is really good. he gets it

Now here’s some arguments he made that I disagree with:

Early in the video, Vaati makes the argument that the blue-robed Officials originate from House Marais because the blue robes are a part of Maleigh Marais’s garb as head of the House, because Inquisitor Ghiza wears bandages, suggesting that he’s “sickly born” like the rest of the Marais family, and because the unnamed guy in the Volcano Manor portrait also wears a metal mask like Maleigh Marais. He argues that House Marais were assimilated into Erdtree society, and presumably that the Official’s blue robes were a precursor to the other robes associated with the nobility (the Ruler’s robe, the Upper Class attire, and the Consort’s robe). 

There are several reasons why I disagree with this theory:

Masks aren’t unique to the Marais family: the Ruler’s set comes with a Ruler’s mask, said to be “customary dress among lords,” and Tanith also wears a mask with her Consort’s robe. I speculated that masks are simply part of the noble fashion alongside the particular style of robe. 

I don’t think it makes a ton of sense for pompous noblemen to have adapted their style of dress from a robe associated with a family of executioners carrying out “the darkest duties of mankind”

The Volcano Manor portrait guy does not have bandages under his mask like Maleigh does.

Maleigh and Ghiza don't really look alike at all:

Also, a different explanation for Ghiza’s bandages could be that he’s a remnant of the 1.0 version of Daedicar, a torturer in Rykard’s inquisition: “he would test new methods of torture first upon himself."

Overall I think a better explanation for the Marais attire is that, since their ancestral duty was serving as executioners on behalf of the Erdtree's justice system, they simply incorporated the Official's attire (worn by magisterial officials carrying out "surveillance, executions, gruesome rituals") into the garb of the head of their house.

I absolutely think House Marais is connected to Volcano Manor though; I've suggested that as executioners they serve as a branch of the Erdtree justice system working in tandem with Rykard's inquisition.

2. Later in the video, Vaati makes the argument that the Abductor Virgins were made after Rykard snakeified himself. I personally think that they were made before the snakening, but I can see the evidence for the contrary and I definitely think it’s possible. However, Vaati later says that the Abductors were used to transport people to the Underground Inquisition Chamber to be interrogated, which contradicts his argument that they were made after Rykard’s snakening… if Rykard is now a serpent, no longer a Praetor, what use is there for interrogation? And who is doing the interrogating, if Tanith was the only human left loyal to Rykard, and his inquisitors have long abandoned him? If the Abductors were made after Rykard became the serpent, the victims are probably just being fed to him. 

3. Towards the end of the video, Vaati says that the serpent displayed in the Temple of Eiglay is the flayed skin of the Great Serpent, and that might explain the Godskin’s presence there. But it’s not the flayed skin of a snake, it’s a snake shed:

It’s a pale, milky, almost translucent color, with some ragged edges and holes. Snakes shed their skin as they grow, and we know the Great Serpent “devours, grows, and lives eternally.” Rykard even has some shed skin stuck to his body and tail:

4. Lastly, I’ve beat this horse to death but you can’t say with 100% certainty that Rykard was born with red hair because he has pale hair in the present day. I will die on this hill

[miquellah]

…..hornsent and the greater potentate both had gold eyes. they were graced….. shut up about potentate!hornsentnpc for a second. shush. shush. listen to me

grace is bestowed to Her People… post-her godhood transformation anyway. people under her rule, minus the blue of the carians i think. anyway

marika made her citizens immortal, so unless theyre outright killed, they dont die. and when they die, they just get reincarnated. this is the justification for a lot of the enemy respawning, yeah? and this is also present within the lands of shadow, yeah? i guess that place could essentially be a time capsule, sure, but otherwise. isnt it weird that all of those people there haven’t DIED died yet

also we, as tarnished, and all of her citizens are known as “marika’s progeny”, presumably noting that we come from her lineage in some form or way or distance. and even if not literal in that description— where the fuck did all of the citizens in the land between COME from? her entire village was decimated!! so many other villages lost to the saint jars!

anyway here’s my totally crackpot theory: the hornsent were REINCARNATED into becoming her citizens, lost of their original markers. its fucking. eugenics. that’s how she got her people, with only a very specific and direct subset of progeny becoming true demigods. and this is also WHY omens are born among her new people— it’s the law of regression at work !!!

this is also why it took marika so long to actually start exacting her revenge, she needed to build her own ranks. its why the hornsent said she betrayed them, having graced them in the first place. it is a TRANSFORMATION of the hornsent into something else. and also, my god, its a direct parallel of real-world eugenics and genocide

[sillovn]

I think this is essentially correct.

Crucible features are seen as "impurity" (why call it such, unless it can be removed?). Similarly, the Dung Eater implies that curses (ie. disparity) can proliferate via. rebirth.

There's an argument to be made that the core of the Golden Order is about maintaining a cycle of Erdtree rebirth. The innovation of Fundamentalism is approaching this process in a more 'scientific' manner, keeping inputs (deaths) and outputs (rebirths) predictable. Also oppression under the Golden Order at present is focused toward people that are disruptive/incompatible with Erdtree rebirth (Omens, Albinaurics, Undead etc.).

Its also likely correct that the Towerfolk are the first converts of the Erdtree, the tenets of Marika's religion naturally follows the Hornsent one. Also, who else would be? You could say Badlanders or Numen, but why mention those as distinct peoples if *everyone* is Badlander/Numen?

[miquellah]

ohhh, yeah… i was actually always really curious as to why, if dung eater’s ending and motivation wasn’t ENTIRELY “bad” (removing disparity by all becoming “cursed”), they chose to get this ending across with like. a fucking crazed serial killer. not exactly someone you CAN sympathize with, and im not entirely sure that sympathizing him would be the point, especially with what we see him do to boggart. but, hm

“dung eater is performing eugenics” and/or “something marika may have done, but in the opposite direction”, has it make a lot more sense. dung eater is framed like this because hes still very much in the wrong, of course. its like. racial cleansing in attempt to reverse what marika potentially did. which is also just fucking Bad

and in addition, yeah, its a choice he makes without considering the agency of others as well, which is a huge running theme entirely. but anyway if the marika half of things is true, then yeah, i think it has dung eater’s motivations and ending pulled a bit more to light as well at that