I feel like youâre the right person to tell this to, but Mileven makes me REALLY uncomfortable. Iâm an adult fan (I watch the show mostly for Winona Ryder) and I felt really gross watching the scenes of them making out, knowing that adults wrote those scenes and shot them, and how many people wouldâve been there during shooting. Please tell me Iâm not alone.
I agree that it makes me feel uncomfortable and gross, too. But, I actually think the Duffers wanted you to feel uncomfortable (and I think mileven was portrayed as âoffâ and âtoo muchâ for that reason).  Think about it, when it comes to almost all their other cannon couples- they use kisses sparingly. Jancy has only kissed, romantically 3x (2 of those times were simple kisses- not full blown make-outs), and their first kiss (and only make-out) was quickly obscured as they closed the door.
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Jopper has never kissed, and lumax had an innocent kid-kiss once (and even when back together in s3, they never kissed).
The duffers are sparing with kiss- scenes, unless they are portraying a relationship that wonât work.Most of the relationships that are cannon (with the exception of mileven) focus almost completely on how they communicate with one another- and relationships that lack this (spend most of their time just making-out).  Whatâs the ship that has had the most kiss scenes in the whole series? In the bathroom, library, bedroom(s), garage, in a car, multiple places at school (and has probably had at least 6-7 kiss scenes or more - and  who even made out on a bed to corny romance music just like mileven (pre-s3?)- Stancy.  Heck, we even see Nancy lose her v**ginity to Steve- but didnât see Jancy do-it. Because we arenât supposed to focus on their physical relationship but their emotional one.
Stancy and mileven have had alot of parallels. The wheelers (Nancy and Karen) already made a habit of pretending theyâre in love with people- because that relationship is what is deemed the most socially acceptable. Nancy rebelling with the cool-jock (Steve), trying to not be like her parents. And Karen with Ted. Nancy even says in s1 âI donât think my parents ever loved each other. My mom was young. My dad was older⌠but he had a cushy job, money, came from a good family. So they bought a house at the end of the cul de sac and started their nuclear familyâ. Ted  & Steve were paralleled to each other, having them both eat chicken as their partners  (Karen/Nancy) stormed off upset (and they did nothing). And El was paralleled to Ted by sitting in Tedâs laz-boy chair. And Dustin even refers to mileven as âbullshitâ just like Nancy described Stancy as âbullshitâ. Â
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So to reiterate , Mike is doing the same thing as Nancy & Karen- being with someone they donât love. And only staying with them becuause they are the more socially acceptable/âcorrectâ optionâŚbecause Elâs a girl (unlike Will).Â
Also, the fact that Murrayâs line to Nancy sounds more queer coded than applicable to Nancy - â Afraid that if youâd accept yourself for who you really are (cough queer-subtext), and retreated back to⌠name, name? Steve. Steve! we like Steve (El) but we donât love Steve (El).â
So, the over-top kisses were done as yet another parallel. And again s2 made fun of (kids who are) mileven shippers ( Iâll talk about that later).Â
But , S3 was the Duffers criticizing the adult mileven shippers- who are obsessed with mileven kissing.Â
Like donât get me wrong thereâs some weird byler shippers (but the majority of byler shippers focus on the emotional not physical part of their relationship).
Think about it. Look how they framed this scene of mileven kissing- making us the viewer feel like a peeping-tom, watching them through the crack in the door. Then El sees the viewer and subsequently gasps and slams the door in front of our faces. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE!Â
The Duffers and their crew (like good directors) were manipulating your emotions- without you realizing how or why. They were also calling-out the adult-mileven shippers (not all of them but the ones) who are obsessed with their kiss scenes - creepy AF. The duffers never even wrote for mileven to kiss in s2- but Millie said they âhad to for the fansâ. And so the Duffers conceded and put in a song about a bad-breakup during the mileven kiss - and their backup-song-choice was even about a divorce. XD
So the 2 mileven make-out scenes were supposed to make you uncomfortable- because not only are they kids (who are making out on a bed , but the way they were framed).
So that 3rd and last kiss. Was 100% supposed to make you uncomfortable (but just for a different reason).
Like it or not Mike either forgot that he said he âloved herâ. Or just LIED to El (despite this being the reason they broke up in the first place)- and pretends he didnât confess to her . He  has never said â I love youâ, once to her face! He even tries to take the words back (before the kiss) and says about the prior love confession â Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. UmâŚâ  and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was âin the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing⌠I donât really remember. What did I say exactly?â
 And , after that discussion, they frame El (before she says âI love youâ), strangely. They make El look large and imposing, as she approaches the motionless Mike (who feels both physically & emotionally cornered) .You the viewer, subconsciously are feeling claustrophobic/trapped/and stuck along with Mike. Which is why you are so uncomfortable watching this scene, unfold.
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When she says âI love youâ, he looks genuinely confused- or just uncomfortable ( his eyebrows are still scrunched-up).
And then⌠cue the most awkward kiss in the history as Mike doesnât kiss her back and keeps his eyes open the whole time⌠itâs just weird/awkward (sorry).
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We even see Elâs reaction , after the kiss (happy, smiling and giddy). But then we blur the screen to see Mikeâs opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.
And In s2 they insulted the young-girls who are obsessed with mileven (since they can frankly, Â be the most toxic of the milevens).Â
In the Montauk pitch (later named Stranger things) they describe the Mike and El dynamic by saying â If Mike is the Eliot of our show,Eleven is our Et.â (AKA theyâre from different planets)
And In s2 , Erica  is forcing He-man and barbie to make out. Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.
Erica: âHey , Theyâre in love!â
Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): âNo, actually, theyâre not. They donât even exist on the same planet.â
And again the Duffers have described El in multiple interviews as âsimilar to ETâ, and âlike an alienâ (even after s3). And in s1, they alluded to El being like âan alien from another planetâ  by comparing her to ET (with the Reeseâs pieces vs eggos moments,  the bike-scene, and the makeover).Â
S3 portrayed mileven as toxic in a myriad of ways. And these other examples, might be stretches, but Mike saying to Max in s2  âHow can I hate you, I donât know you.â could also be a âdigâ at mileven.(Because: he knew Max for a week, just as long as El- so how could he hate or love either of them?)
And Mike saying to Dustin incredulously â You have a bond? Just cause he likes nougat (eggos)?â Could be another subtle jab.
Especially since itâs cannon Mike isnât the biggest fan of eggos to begin with.
Donât even get me started at how much the st writing staff- makes fun of mileven - more details about it here. But just one example is when the âStranger writersâ ( the official account of the ST writing staff ) got into a huge text-chain with âStranger Thingsâ (the official account of the show) where they just low-key dragged mileven together.
Mileven was never meant to be end game-they planned for her to die in season 1 (which Iâm glad didnât happen). But, regardless, it was always supposed to be a simple fleeting crush ⌠but the viewers decided to take it way too seriously. After s3, the Duffers reiterate that mileven is just that.
 And the Duffers are smart guys, I bet theyâre are 100% aware of how toxic the milevens are to bylers (and how they can also be creepy and harass Finn). Not to mention, as writers, who put so much effort into the show- having people hyper-fixate on mileven (which they donât even like), instead of the plot must drive them insane.Especially when those shippers can be toxic, homophobic, and entitled. The fact people donât realize the Duffers hate mileven- is honestly hilarious XD.
just wanted to add to the whole thing about, if a couple in the show has more kisses/more of a focus on their physical relationship rather than their emotional one, it screams theyâre not endgame. the duffers arenât subtle about this.
each season - each FIRST EP of a season - weâre introduced to a couple with a make-out scene. and if more kisses = no endgame, being introduced to a relationship like this guarantees no endgame. s1 was stancy
s2 was joyce and bob
so OFC, in s3, us being introduced to m!leven through a make-out scene is 100% intentional
the duffers ARE. NOT. SUBTLE about this at all. jancy has had like 2.5 kisses throughout 3 seasons. lumax has had 1. jopper still hasnât kissed, but they might in s4. and imma wait patiently for at least a byler cheek kiss.
the duffers really want their audience to differentiate between a physical connection and an emotional one. physical connections donât last, bc itâs not real romantic love. a relationship based on a physical connection isnât healthy. itâs a way to stifle any sort of conversation and verbal communication between two people.
im p sure the first time we see sandra and hopper together, theyâre literally in bed naked. (and just from the way this is shot, you can tell itâs not a happy relationship.)
hopper is troubled by willâs disappearance, he gets out of bed, she finds him outside later on, and he seems to try and talk about the whole situation w her.
turns out, she doesnât care to talk about it, and instead tries to bring him back to bed
people in this show who have physical relationships like this donât talk to each other. at least, they donât communicate clearly enough to understand each other. theyâre emotional closed off from one another think about how mike struggles w just being honest w el, compared to how easy it is for him to talk to will.
the morning after nancy and steve sleep together, they barely say a word to each other before nancy just leaves. steve doesnât even say words, he just mumbles into his pillow.
oh look at this more parallels:
ive seen a couple m!leven shippers complaining about the make out scenes too, and how they wouldâve liked to see them just talk to each other. sorry to break it to you guys, but thereâs a reason for that. itâs not fanservice. mike and el just donât talk to each other. at least, not a lot - not enough.
couples on this show such as jancy, lumax, jopper, and byler all have more down-to-earth, open, vulnerable conversations w each other, instead of just kissing scenes. the duffers are trying to tell their audience that they believe a healthy romance requires things such as communication, honesty, and vulnerability, and a relationship is unhealthy when physical affection stifles open communication.
@janebycrs I love this addition so much! People just assume the make-outs are for fan-service but all of s3 establishes (just like the rest of the doomed pairings). Mike and El donât communicate properly (and because of that along with just being naturally not a good-fit for each other) they donât understand each others feelings/ values.
Mike breaks her rule of not lying. And El breaks his rule of not spying.Mike even said âthatâs against the rules!â And this clearly upset him, because he brings it up multiple times (after this) ! Max even calls Mike out for ânot trusting her.â But why should either trust each other? Neither one even apologized for the lying or spying? Or promised to not do it again? Why would you trust your partner when they never apologize for the thing that upset you/felt like a betrayal of trust? Itâs obvious mileven will not last as a couple , at this rate.
Noted. I just love how the fandom is able to progress from simply just shipping to a more thought-out analyses of the character dynamics taking place across three seasons.















