the tshirt. the arms. the haircut. the way he holds a cigarette.

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@rancidhomo
the tshirt. the arms. the haircut. the way he holds a cigarette.
sorry i came in 52 seconds i am obsessed with you
that “there are x everywhere for people with eyes to see” line is so dramatically relevant to the experience of people who have sat witness to Oasis. the music, the history, everything. when you sit back and look at how all the small details come together to make a grander picture, it's really astonishing to then consider how much transparency they allowed their music to have, their life's work - so much so that you can distinctly recognize and empathize with all the emotions they inhabited throughout a convoluted and impossible 30+ year affair.
the music from beginning to end is unequivocally a conversation and shared meditation between the two of them - one songwriter/occasional singer and one singer/occasional songwriter - that paints a poignant picture of Liam being the youthful idealistic ‘anything is possible if we’re together’ romantic and Noel being the tortured pragmatist; Liam overwhelmed with longing for an intentional, fully-realized romantic partnership, spending most of his adult life imploring Noel to give himself over to loving him in the way that Noel was inclined to, and Noel responding mournfully that the the risk is too great, the world isn’t designed for something like that to be possible. Liam seemed ready to jump at the drop of hat, and i think a big part of the rebuffing from Noel was recognition of that impulsive instinct in Liam and fear of the outcome. Liam's music said, repeatedly, “let’s just do it, don't be scared” and Noel’s response was no, it’s not practical, that's not how the world works, this is both self-preservation and preservation of the person i love, this is in both of our best interests
still, Noel's music has always expressed just as devastating of a longing to share a life in that way, to "escape" or shun his moral responsibilities, but the impression we’re left with when also taking into account how things turned out is that from the beginning Noel felt a deep sense of shame and paternal duty and thus kept Liam at arm’s length (at least in the sense that he didn't allow a full commitment to come to fruition), Liam acted out in increasingly desperate ways, Noel was often left hurt, and so went the constant cycles of overwhelming love, frustration, longing, jealousy, giving in, backing off, despair, resentfulness, and coping. decades spent at a depth of pain that couldn't be aired out with a single other soul in pursuit of relief due to the taboo nature of it must have felt biblical and inescapable. they couldn’t practically extricate themselves from it, because their romantic affection existed hand-in-hand with their brotherhood. in this case, moving on from a lover would mean losing a brother and savior. it would also mean losing their livelihood. ultimately, the chaotically-reached resolution was absolute estrangement and they both appear to have suffered greatly for it.
of course i would expect accusations of absurdity in response to these thoughts, but when it gets down to it all i can say to people who characterize interpretations like this as being absurd - listen to the music and read all the lyrics from start to finish. take note of the songs that have most explicitly demonstrated that their longing for each other is romantic and/or sexual in nature - e.g. My Sister Lover, Guess God Thinks I’m Abel, It’s A Crime, If We Shadows, Songbird, Let There Be Love - and the themes and motifs they present, and look at how they have been woven endlessly throughout all the music they made (together and separately) for over 30 years. those recurrent themes - criminal shame, the intangible/unattainable nature of safety, fear of the outside world and judgement, a need to escape, dreams of finding refuges, communicating the contents of the heart through song, idolizing or regarding your lover religiously, stewing in the pain of their absence, hopelessness, appeals for pragmatism met with appeals to the supremacy of love and the courage to love boldly, mourning the death of a romantic and familial relationship, and more - are what make it incredibly easy to pick up the narrative of their story across their work and understand what unique circumstances, emotions, beliefs, and behaviors made it so that they were never able to find their footing with each other despite how deeply they loved each other.
and that’s without even considering the historical events that lined up with the timeline of their music - such as, for example, footage of Noel doing an interview looking truly miserable and sick with jealousy prior to an enormous show, during which he immediately drives the conversation into a discussion about how he had to find out about Liam’s engagement to his girlfriend through the papers, sardonically calling him the man of the hour; and then later in the day, experiencing what can only be described as a complete collapse of emotions and judgement that led to him walking up to his brother (who was sitting on stage in front of 40,000 people and their cameras) and pulling a wide-eyed Liam into a fully-reciprocated, open-mouth-and-tongue kiss (that, mind you, only exists now in photos, despite the epic size and scale of the event). soap opera levels of angst, and we can only estimate what uncontrollable emotions and thoughts were informing his actions in that moment - was he demonstrating ownership by engaging his brother in that way in front of a crowd of 40,000, flaunting how malleable Liam was for him? was he overcome with despair at the thought of an imminent goodbye? was he trying to appear bold cool and unaffected? or all of that?
for Liam’s part, it will never stop fascinating me to observe how he seemed so confident in his feelings and what he wanted from the very beginning. it’s clear that his love for Noel was paramount and he would have done or said anything to have Noel choose him, outside perception not even being a consideration. i don’t think there was ever a point that Liam would have cared if the public found out. outside of his music he has always been just as transparent and without shame in expressing these intense emotions and desires, and has been literally begging Noel his whole life to let himself love him the way he naturally would if no one was watching.
it’s incredible to see that Liam has persisted in maintaining that same mindset, genuine vulnerability, bloody gushing heart on his sleeve existence. and that he’s just as blindly romantic for the same person at 52 years old as he was at the beginning of his life when he experienced all those emotions for the first time and immediately placed them above everything else in the world. his behavior and words throughout their estrangement has been distinctly and unabashedly lovesick in nature, obsessive and romantic, something that Noel had remarked on outright in interviews during their separation. Liam never shied away from revealing exactly how much he was suffering and why.
this post has gone on too long but ultimately, i suppose what i want to express the most is that it is a heartrending, staggering thing to consider them and the full body of music they made for each other and then allowed out into the world. you end up dwelling on critical time being lost and squandered, navigating the all out collapse of a relationship that is both familial and romantic - particularly one that is deeply enmeshed with experiences of shared trauma, refuge in each other, and the pursuit of safety and recovery - and ultimately, the unique grief that accompanies the loss of your person of sanctuary. that shit is crazy, and they just laid it out there for everyone in the name of art and love and each other.
god this is so sad. thinking back to the first episode bed scene with this perspective, it seems like Loch would have recognized Saxon focusing so acutely on his sexuality (as well as how important sex is to Saxon) and interpreted that sexual interest as the most effective avenue to elicit Saxon's love and interest. he is so desperate for affection and he really thinks this is the way to be lovable and compelling. and it seems more and more likely to me that Saxon has been traumatized by sexual maltreatment at the hands of people in positions of power over him. specifically Tim talking about how much he hated his parents and then reminiscing this episode about being an altar boy (and Saxon shaping his identity around things that he thinks would please his dad) makes me think that the family is stuck in cycles of sexual abuse and power plays and they can't figure out how to love each other without falling into patterns of dominance and submission and the constant crossing of boundaries. Saxon and Lochlan obviously genuinely love each other but they have no instinct for cultivating it in a non-damaging way.
new follower inteigued by oasis. What are some actually real crazy things that happened?
everything. jokes aside though like. They’re extremely fucking weird about each other to the point where trying to summarize everything on my own is a futile effort. The thing is too is that the oasis iceberg works in such a way that the stuff you can see with your eyeballs is ultimately not the really wild stuff, but that deeper iceberg stuff doesn’t really make a lot of sense in isolation. So, in terms of like outwardly crazy shit, here’s some highlights I find personally fun
- the first red flag—Noel French kissed Liam at one of their biggest shows in front of thousands of people and also their mom. The crazy part isn’t this though, because anyone can French kiss. The crazy part is that this happened immediately after Liam got engaged that week (without telling Noel, who had to find out in the gossip rags), then kiss happens, they proceeded to have a big fight (among other things), Noel kidnaps (yes literally) Liam and takes him to a house out in the country to work out their issues (no one knows where they are), they do that supposedly, but then Noel says he’s going to get married too, Liam flips his shit and throws an ashtray through the window, they get married like a month apart and don’t go to each other’s weddings. and then, years later, get divorced around the same time. Everyone is in agreement that they get along best when they’re not married
- speaking of, there’s 3 kisses out there. Public makeout action from 1996, a cute one from like 1994 in Tokyo, and then one that a paparazzi/photographer got after an award ceremony, which wasn’t intended to be seen by anyone/not done for a crowd
- speaking of the French kissed, in 2016 Liam cosplayed the outfit + hair he wore when he got French kissed to the premier of their documentary. Noel did not show up. Afterwards he got blasted at a pub and was miserable to the point where his driver told the interviewer he has no friends
- Liam wrote a song about Noel called Guess God Thinks I’m Abel that begins with “I could be your lover, you could be all mine” and Noel wrote a song with the lyrics “you’re my lover, I’m your brother”. While the music is more like…fun meta flavoring it’s still crazy
- Liam also believes the song Wonderwall is about him. Y’know. The romance song.
- Liam blew half his net worth buying a house in France with Noel’s name carved on the walls
then there’s this, and even though it’s almost certifiably not true the fact that he said it at all in front of a crowd is crazy
and of course them humping on stage
and some other incredibly insane things they say about each other
It's all true and it's still happening.
drunkenly stumbling home and entering oasis deprivation tank mode
So now we’ve got:
9/24/94– Noel serenades Liam at Portland radio show with “Take Me Away”
9/29/94- Meth-fueled Whisky-A-Go-Go gig, followed by Noel’s note to Liam (how can we go on as brothers when we do this?) and Noel’s subsequent lost week in San Francisco
10/15/94- Liam defiantly refuses to sing the ‘inside me’ lyric to “Up in the Sky,” and stares Noel down while he’s singing the ‘I can feel you, can you feel me?’ line
But do the media and journalists actually think Liam and Noel have a weird relationship? I mean, if that were the case then why wouldn't they mention or allude to it?
Omg they literally do. The Gallagher brothers' weird relationship has been the subject of thousands, probably tens of thousands, of media articles and interviews over the last 30 years. They don't say it's incestuous because that would invite a slander suit. But consider:
Reprinting photos of them kissing
Printing photos of them with bondage imagery
Printing photos of them rolling on the floor
Headlines that evoke weddings, true love, and breakups
Articles that directly pose wives and girlfriends as rivals to the brother relationship
Thirty years of will they/won't they teasing articles about literally every tiny interaction, real or imagined.
Consider that every weird thing that we know about, we only know about it because SOMEONE DECIDED TO PRINT IT. There's no one making editors include that stuff. They choose to.
The fact is that not even famous couples who were married and divorced have this much media attention on their relationship. None. No one asks Stevie Nicks what she thinks of Lindsay's new music. No one asks Brad Pitt if he's talked to Angelina Jolie recently.
Quick everyone, reblog with your closest example of journalists using images or allusions to point out how weird the Gallaghers are.
everybody knows...but no ones saying nothing...
I actually feel like the media is like, #1 perpetuator of gcest, how can you get a better story than two ultra mega famous brothers who are actually somewhat publicly in love with each other? it's very fascinating, Liam and noel were picked apart for every little thing they did by journos but you can't just outright put in your magazine that you think they are incestous and have sex with each other or whatever. as op said could be taken as slander but also just socially, it's not something you want to be wrong about or be the first one to stand up and say something outright about. as much as the topic of incest is not something people want to acknowledge or talk about, we're endlessly fascinated by it and love talking about and making a spectacle of it. better yet if you have plausible deniability in your choice of words or if its handed to you on a silver platter.
This posing was a Choice
The carefully neutral faces of the interviewers here as Noel says that he enjoys threatening to leave Liam to hurt him says it all. They ran the bit, but they definitely are not making faces that say sure, sure this is normal go on.
💬 2 🔁 46 ❤️ 123 · “Did I mention that I enjoy testing how much I could hurt my brother by threatening to leave him” 👏 it actually says as
Same thing here. Look at the interviewers silent discomfort as Noel says Liam is his bitch. They are in front of a live studio audience so they are playing it cool but they are obviously uncomfortable.
Tumblr is a place to express yourself, discover yourself, and bond over the stuff you love. It's where your interests connect you with your
Now check out this one. The interviewer keeps his face neutral when Noel says he and Liam are head over heels in love, and carefully repeats the the phrase to give Noel a chance to qualify his statement.
Noel simply says yes, and interviewer gets a Wow Okay look. Noel goes on to say that while its illegal in some countries, its fine when you're on the road. Interviewer hastily takes the mic, explains that incest is actually not okay in Switzerland (their current location), and cuts the segment.
Now, this is not taking place on a paywalled podcast. It is live daytime national television. Can you imagine the conversation in the production room when that ended? Can you imagine that there was NOT a discussion between producer, station, and advertisers about why we are suddenly having to explain that sibling incest is not okay to the kids watching MTV???
Tumblr is a place to express yourself, discover yourself, and bond over the stuff you love. It's where your interests connect you with your
Spin, June 2005.
@gallaghergallagher YES. The editors not only ran the quote, which they absolutely did not have to do. They made it the freaking headline.
Posing them like a couple is a choice editors make. Other duos are not posed like this.
Let's not forget about allusive magazine headlines.
YASS. Identified by @supernovamateeee .
Just a few weeks ago, in the year of our lord 2025, romantic love and wedding imagery was evoked by one of the UKs top news sites. What's it REALLY like backstage? Like a wedding reception, of course.
Exclusive: Sources compare jubilant atmosphere backstage to a ‘wedding’, with free-flowing booze and plenty of celebrity guests, ahead of th
🤦
Mike White cut so much of the Ratliff storyline that I swear every day we find out about a new (and crucial) scene that didn’t make it into the show. And they are SO important to better understand the family dynamic.
A few weeks ago Patrick said there was a scene that got cut of Victoria talking to the boys about how they have to block strangers out and prioritize family. There’s a similar scene like that in episode 2 but her saying it directly to Saxon and Lochlan…I mean c’mon
Jason Isaacs just said in an interview that they cut a scene that actually contextualizes how rich and isolated the Ratliffs are. In episode 1, Timothy explains to the hotel staff that this was their first time flying in a commercial plane, and that they always fly private. Jason also said the Ratliffs would vacation in the Caribbean in PRIVATE mansions and they would avoid hotels, in order to be away from people.
Sara Catherine mentioned a scene from episode 8 where Piper tells Lochlan that the true cult is their family, and that they have to get away from each other because it’s all “borderline incestuous”. Apparently Lochlan was supposed to freak out when she says that and ask her if Saxon had told her anything.
Patrick just gave us the most insane lore drop and mentioned that there’s a cut scene where Lochlan has a nightmare in which he finds Saxon dead by the pool with vomit all over him (full on death vision)…and Lochlan wakes up and goes to try and find him in the kitchen. Minutes later, it’s Lochlan that ends up almost dead by the pool with vomit on his face.
Mike White….what is your damn problem???
35k likes thread comparing Lochlan to Echo and Saxon/the rest of the family to Narcissus. This lady also compares him to Loki and Jesus Christ further down the thread….I fear we have never been more back.
The Ratliffs characters of all time tbh 🤷♀️
Patrick commemorates National Siblings Day on Fallon 😂
Patrick Schwarzenegger and Sam Nivola in The White Lotus
3.08 "Amor Fati"
SAXON RATLIFF & LOCHLAN RATLIFF SEASON 3, EPISODE 8: AMOR FATI THE WHITE LOTUS (2021-)
I need to study Patrick Schwarzenegger’s brain under a microscope… “it’s a sweet but odd moment”.
The way he just gets their dynamic, the way he gets Saxon and how deeply in denial he is about the whole thing and his involvement in it.
He doesn’t judge these characters at all.
hello :)
I wouldn't usually be all in on anything related to vacant rich white guys but I think its the way that the vapidity almost imperceptibly ebbs every now and then that has unfortunately captivated me very much.
Based on 95% of Saxon's words and behavior, like Chelsea I also would have quickly come to the conclusion that Saxon is soulless, interacting with his environment and other people in superficial ways that barely penetrate even a centimeter past his skin, never compelled to truly engage with the world, or allow any force to do even a little bit of substantive work inside him.
Most people unfortunate enough to have a conversation with him would probably assume that he's never known love in his life - and that he doesn't even know he hasn't, either. That's why it's so satisfying to me to witness the moments where Lochlan does something that briefly catalyzes evidence of something substantial existing within Saxon.
e.g., when Lochlan places his hand on Saxon's back and runs his fingers through his hair, Saxon's immediate unguarded look of euphoric overwhelm at the intimacy of the moment is absolutely wild. How few gestures of genuine, intentional affection has Saxon been the recipient of? For a moment, Lochlan's action allowed us to glimpse an interiority/depth of emotion in Saxon that he usually seems devoid of.
Also, in Saxon's flashback to the kiss, he is effusing such a palpable glow of vulnerability. You can feel it with the positioning of their bodies (Lochlan higher and bending down to Saxon), the warmth of the light, the softness of the kisses that Lochlan is bestowing on Saxon, Saxon letting the back of his fingers lightly graze across Lochlan's neck.
He is exposing his longing for tenderness. Lochlan's love and affection briefly shows us that Saxon is a human capable of feeling. He is a person relishing connection and intimacy with another person on mutually-informing emotional and physical levels, something that I'd assume neither of them have experienced before.
I will say that the story as Mike White has written it makes sense to me. These are two lonely brothers, raised at different times by bizarrely disconnected wealth-obsessed parents who either didn't teach the boys how to love others/cultivate relationships in healthy ways, or perhaps did and said things that actively hindered their children's emotional development and capacity for connection. Lochlan as the youngest child alone in a house with uninterested and distant parents, no instinct for developing love and intimacy with others and terrified that his loneliness will be forever. Saxon as the oldest child, out in the world grinding for useless and empty experiences with people just as vacant as him, incapable of getting anyone to love him and terrified that his whole life will be devoid of sincere intimacy.
I buy Sam Nivola's theory that Lochlan isn't sexually attracted to Saxon and that his actions were influenced more by his people-pleasing impulses. I think he recognized that Saxon has a physical/sexual attraction to him and, knowing how much Saxon prioritizes physical sexual experiences, wanted to offer gratification/consummation as a form of connection.
Although it may not be distinctly sexual, I do think that Lochlan gets a tremendous amount of pleasure from making Saxon feel good. He is happy to tenderly kiss the affection-starved brother that he loves deeply and that he knows loves him just as much in return. Saxon seems to actively crave both Lochlan's emotional and sexual attention, and Lochlan seems to enjoy giving it.
Even though they are more-or-less strangers in each other's lives due to their age gap, their love for each other is likely the only easy, natural source of good feelings they have. The distance between them in age/life stages/actual physical space, however, makes access to those feelings difficult. It makes sense that two siblings from a fucked up family, one or maybe both of them queer in a repressive conservative religious environment, with severely stunted emotional development, would interpret each other's love as the only thing that could bring them happiness- but more importantly, the only thing that will keep them from dying alone and unloved. It makes sense that in circumstances like that, the boys wouldn't know how to stop themselves from conflating and seeking to gratify all of their impulses for connection, with each other, all at once.
Um hi they were rolling off a molly during ALL of that so I don’t really think the thesis of “they’re repressed and they want this” really holds up especially given how viscerally repulsed and traumatized they both acted when remembering the events of that night. This isn’t a “Love Wins” scenario they were goaded into violating each other by a woman so she could have Diddy yacht party blackmail fodder to extort their family. No one died at stonewall for this
I didn't say I think they're both sexually repressed - I think Saxon is. People handle growing up in oppressive cultures and environments differently, but it's undeniable that it is a widely-experienced reality that suppressing one's identity as a result of external pressure can lead to extremely harmful or damaging behavior. This whole plot is centered around the allure of the taboo, how it has the potential to both repulse and excite us. For someone as stifled and unfulfilled as Saxon, the manifestations of that taboo appear to be especially stuck in his psyche. Of course they were both repulsed when they were looking at what they had done in the light of day - they had allowed more of their hidden selves to show as a result of the drugs, and by the next day when they became cognizant of what had happened as a result of it, they were disgusted by themselves for how their feelings and actions had informed it and of course by the act itself. Being aroused by the forbidden and simultaneously repulsed by it is a human experience explored thousands of times over in art literature and media and it's what Saxon is and will continue to struggle with over the final episodes. Did you completely miss that in your viewing of the episodes this far? Seriously?
Also, your reading comprehension is fucking terrible. Your Stonewall comment is so funny, taking a huge liberty to suggest the purpose of my comments was to hold them up as shining examples of gay romantic love and not a reflection on how two damaged and insecure people could get to a place where they react to each other like that despite the amoral unnatural underpinnings of it.
Everything in my post was exploring what it might be like from their point of view, although it might make some uncomfortable to assume the point of view of two people who have done something so shockingly offensive to morality. That's why it's so interesting to explore - what conditions/emotions/circumstances have led to this insane situation they've found themselves in together where they are hinging so much of themselves on each other? Identity is the theme of this season and happiness is a huge part of self-actualization for most people. It is not a love story from the viewer's perspective by any means, but my point was that the terrible ways the conditions of their life had hindered their emotional development has created the potential for a "love story," as you say, for them - two lost and lonely people who might think they'll only find what they need in each other despite all the many ways it is super fucked up. Saxon, especially, seems to romanticize Lochlan a lot, but we'll see where that goes. It's highly possible that the writer could go the route of having them surrender to that feeling, them thinking it's what would make them feel happy and fulfilled. It could also end with them severely broken and unable to be near each other for the rest of their lives.
I understand if contemplating these themes or assuming these points of view for the sake of world defining/world building isn't for everyone - that's perfectly understandable given the dark and disturbing depths it will bring you to given the subject matter. But going on other people's posts just to show what an obtuse dumbass you are is just putting yourself out.
at the end of the day who wouldn't enjoy trying to figure out what conditions caused a relationship between two fictional brothers to end up at such an unspeakable extreme disastrous life-ruining place in the span of a night, when all you'll have by the end of the season is about 50 minutes of screentime between them to refer to and the inevitable statement from the creator stating simply that he'll never state what really happened (because he doesn't know)