Trans people aren't a threat to cis women
We need to stand together with them bc as women we understand what it's like to feel unsafe, to feel targeted and to feel governments at large don't care about our protection.
To have people not care if we're attacked, assaulted and killed. A reality trans people face as much as cis women do.
I know you are intelligent, we've spoken and you are methodical and logical. But you are hitting the exact same speaking points TERFs always do.
Bc TERF mentality needs you to believe that cis women are the victims of the trans movement. Otherwise it's just needlessly hateful bigotry.
The examples are also on an individual level, as opposed to the system wide threat trans peoples existence is under.
I... Seeing you write that was genuinely shocking. And disheartening. I know you said you wanted to write a calmly thought out post about this, but the end result would have been the same regardless.
I know these words of mine won't undo 3 years of this.
I'm not going to say something scathing bc we have spoken before and I believe that you do want the best for others, and that you value nuance and taking other View points into account.
But I do think that you've listened to enough TERF rhetoric claiming they're the victims that you believe that to be the case.
I know most likely you will rebut some points in this, and I'm willing to try and discuss it with you though not tonight
Scrolling past that post, I was actually floored to see you had written it. It's rocked me a bit. But that offer is open
I agree with you. Trans people are no danger to women. Normal trans people who just want to live their lives, who want to live free from discrimination and find ways to alleviate their dysphoria. I have absolutely no issue with them; I support them and their rights.
But - and yes, I am rebutting here - the TRA movement doesn't and shouldn't reflect all trans people.
Please explain to me how it can be seen as okay or justified for any of them sending rape and death threats to "TERFS". I posted the receipts of those instances, and said those were only a tiny, tiny portion of all the verbal and physical violence that has been well-documented over the past.
At some point you have to realize that these people have hijacked a movement. They are not "on the right side of history".
The bare minimum basis for any kind of meaningful discussion, imho, is to acknowledge that such activism is going more than just one step too far.
We can talk about bathrooms (which is something I have a very nuanced opinion on and have listened to both sides, understanding both). We can talk about what alternative there should be for incarcerated trans women so that they can be safe from male violence, too. We can talk about all of that.
But we cannot talk about literal threats of violence and some of the worst kind of misogyny being in any way justified.
I can return the kindness and compliment that you are a logical and compassionate person. If that is the case and my impression isn't wrong, then this is something you must condemn!
Also, as for what "rhetoric" I've listened to. It's been a very diverse selection of people and sources. Many of them leftist, many of them academics, women who have devoted their lives to truth and science such as Dr. Debra Soh, Kathleen Stock; and trans people like Debbie Hayton.
Even if I hadn't listened to anyone else but these three, my opinion on these matter would be the same.
The term "TERF" is utterly meaningless these days, because everyone who doesn't agree with the established narrative is labelled a TERF. Buck Angel, trans man, has been called a TERF ffs.
The thing is, we aren't arguing over actual talking points here. That's hardly ever the approach and conversation. It's always just about who is a TERF and which side is bad. It's never about the details. And that's not how discourse works. But we cannot have actual discourse because if always gets shut down with matras such as "oh but that's TERF rhetoric."
Okay, so maybe it is. And then I'm embracing that. Because it's utterly meaningless.
So yes, let us talk about actual points here instead of who is called what by whom.
Actual point I'm proposing to start with:
What can and should we do with people who claim to be trans women once they get arrested/sentenced, and who have committed acts of sexual or other violence against women? Is their chosen identity valid? And if so, is that validity more relevant than the safety of women in the prisons they are being sent to? In short: does a chosen (and not even psychologically backed and assessed) identity trump women's lives?
(Funnily, when I or others asked this question 3 or 2 years ago, people always refuted it by saying "oh that won't happen. That's just TERF rhetoric. That's not a thing". Well, it provenly is a thing now. Isla Bryson, Barbie Kardashian, and many many more)
The ball is in your court.
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