all this information in formation

Sorting Hat Chats rambling sideblog. Main at/following from @intheseautumnhands. They/them or it/its.Burnsploded Badger Primary/Crispy Bird Secondary with a Badger Model.

[repetitionsings]

patterns form and feel important

Hello! If you are here, you are hopefully here for Sorting Hat Chats, cause that’s all we’re gonna be doing here. I’ve been participating in SHC stuff for a while over on my main blog @intheseautumnhands but that blog is, to put it lightly, not well-organized, so here we are, where I can organize better.

shc related notes:

• I am a Burned & Exploded Badger Primary/semi-Burned Bird Secondary with a Badger Secondary Model

• Mostly I sort fiction stuff, play the “houses as [lyrics/quotes]” game, and chime in on discussions.

• I’m in too many fandoms for a list, but I mostly am into musical theater and live-action television, with a fair amount of books and live-action movies, and a scattering of other stuff. On the other end, I’m not very well-versed in any kind of animated mediums, and I’m only into a handful of podcasts, comics, or video games.

• Askbox is open! Please feel free to drop by and chat or ask whatever.

• I'm up for discussing absolutely anything about this system, but some areas that I have particular fascination for include:

• performances • exploded, burned, and burn-sploded house • the unburning/unexploding process • how mental illness, chronic illness, and executive dysfunction affect house presentation • intersection of Primary and Secondary and how they can color what each other looks like • when a story’s world or plot has or favors a sorting, and how that affects presentation of characters with different houses • how different interpretations of a character (in adaptions, retellings, remakes, different stagings, recasts, etc,) can change houses.

helpful tag stuff:

Posts focused on one of the primaries are tagged as “pri: [house]”, one of the secondaries as “sec: [house]”

Fiction sortings tagged as “sorting things out”, as well as “m: [media name]”

House as [quotes/lyrics/etc] are “categorization games”

My personal notes and experiences are under “the first brush stroke of a self-portrait”

All my original posts (no matter which blog they were posted under originally) are under “til binary systems run” just so I can find them more easily

[repetitionsings]

I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm curious to know what you think: By definition, systems like sorting hat chats put something relatively simple (their structure) on something incredibly complicated and ever-changing (life). How do you use it to your advantage without ignoring the many pitfalls?

This is a really fascinating question to discuss, although slightly removed for me because I find that most of my interest in this system is still in discussing its uses for fiction. (Like, I don't mind discussing actual application, but I'm much more comfortable discussing characters!) So a lot of those pitfalls are less relevant for me personally; while I've had some of the people close to me take the test and I remember their sorting, it's one of the last things to come to mind when I try to think about their behavior.

That said, I really, truly believe the key here is flexibility.

As much as we might love this system and feel like it explain things to us, remembering that life is extremely complicated and that it's never going to 1:1 to any description we try to use for it is important. Essentially, we are playing here. And that is not putting the system down at all; instead, that opens up an enormous amount of freedom. No potential boss is going to ask you for your Primary and Secondary and lock into whether or not they're going to hire you based on that. No one's going to look at your type and your best friend's type and try to tell you you're incompatible.

And if you've got that kind of freedom, you've also got the freedom to be wrong about things. Because really, I think that's how you avoid the biggest pitfall of using it to try and judge real life: You accept that you might be wrong, and don't try to cling to a view on somebody after you've got good reason to change to it, just because, well, I thought you were this, and I refuse to believe now that you're not.

(This is also why I will die on the hill of a core sorting changing being possible. If you view these labels not as immutable things, but as words we use to try to explain ourselves and others, you have to have the freedom to allow people to describe themselves and the way their personality shifts in whatever way they feel most comfortable with.)

[repetitionsings]

is Reginald from TUA a Snake primary? that s3 ending was... so Snake-y to me. his and Allison's.

(Sorry for the delay in answering, but I didn't finish the season until mid-July, and then life was busy.)

Friend, I will level with you: Reginald doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me if I have to look at all three seasons together. The short one is check back with me after we find out if we get a season four I guess? The longer contains spoilers, and is not that much longer.

In my perspective, season three Reginald's motivations no longer make sense at all for season one Reginald, and the branch off happens not just before the paradox-causing death of the birth mothers, but before meeting the Umbrellas in the 60s.

If we end up going with "Reginald did this all for his dead wife".... yeah, okay, Snake Primary. A very cold Snake who never took any of his children into his circle, but that's certainly possible. But, none of his season three actions seem related at all to what he did in season one, and I have no idea how they're going to pull that together. Unless, I guess, he somehow found out the apocalypse was no longer happening? But hell if I know how that would happen?

I also feel like an idealist who just happened to not have reason in his ideals not to save his wife is still a pretty strong possibility. Especially if it's played as a part of saving the world generally as well as saving his wife. He could be a Lion who also feels like if he's going to be saving the world in the process, he might as well get everything he wants along the way. A Bird might also manage to work that into his worldview as well. I seriously doubt Badger, even the most authoritarian of Badgers, but as I see it, right now, until we get a better glimpse of his motives in a potential season four, there's a lot up in the air.

Snake is definitely a strong possibility at this point! But, uh, my read on Reginald's motivations right now is basically saying s3 Reginald started being a different person way before the timeline allows for, so I don't know how that's going to shake out in the end.

[repetitionsings]

SHC: Sparrow Academy Predictions

With two days left til The Umbrella Academy season 3, let’s lay down some completely baseless predictions for the new Hargreeves crew.

Spoiler status: This is going off the official trailer + the one clip of them training from the Geeked Week panel + the promo pictures and videos being posted on the official social media. I have not read any reviews, spoilery or not, hence the “completely baseless” part mentioned above. This is just shooting at random based on first impressions. So I may be totally wrong here, but hey, it’s fun to speculate, and nothing to lose by throwing some ideas out there, right?

Marcus: My first thought was Marcus is gonna be the Double Lion that Reginald always wanted from Luther -- but as the promo materials have started rolling out, especially with his advising them to be careful in the training scene and even his reaction to Viktor’s boast/threat, I’m kind of getting a built Secondary vibe now? Still thinking inspirational primary, though. Maybe Lion/Bird or Lion/Badger? I’m holding out hope for Badger/Bird at this point, but that’s also my bias showing. XD

Ben: I still like the idea of Umbrella-Ben being Lion/Bird -- though I get the feeling this version is modelling Lion Secondary a lot harder. I’m gonna stick with that for now, but I think this is going to have the potential to vary depending on whether you take Umbrella-Ben into account or try to sort them as totally different characters.

Fei: Clearly a Double Bird, right? Okay, obvious joke over. Not much to go on, I think she’s had the least dialogue so far. I’m gonna take a stab and say she’ll mirror Allison as another Snake/Bird number three. That, or Lion/Badger, giving us possibly an entire Lion/builtsec 1/2/3 combo.

Alphonso: Another one that I’d really like to see mirror his Umbrella counterpart, as another Double Snake number four. It seems like it’d fit with the glimpses we have so far, so I’m gonna stick with that one.

Sloane: Pretty sure she’s had the second-least dialogue so far, so also not a lot to go on there. I’m gonna say Badger Primary, entirely based on her looking kind of ashamed or disappointed in herself for two seconds in the training scene. Maybe Lion Secondary? I get improvisational vibes.

Jayme: Almost solely based on not having guessed it for anyone else, I’m gonna say Bird Primary -- also, I can’t tell whether she’s meant to mirror original!Ben (as number six), Five, or both, but I feel like a Bird Primary would mirror their very-birdy-feeling-but-never-entirely-there vibes interestingly. Secondary... Snake? Based on... nothing, but you knew that clicking into this post.

Christopher: Clearly number seven is yet again the one true Double Lion of the family! Or its Double Badger heart and caretaker, but it’s definitely one or the other.

[sevilemar]

I tried to transcribe a snake's rules of self-care for badgers; not sure how successful, but it was fun trying:

1. You are 100% entitled to the same care and attention you give to a friend, a stranger, or a loved one. No excuses, no take-backs, no 'yes, but's.

2. Take a step back, look at yourself, and then imagine your best friend in your place. Whatever you would do for them, do it for yourself.

3. If you ask yourself 'Is it really OK for me to take this time for myself? Isn't it awfully selfish of me?', do it right now. Because by the time you get to this question, you are already so much in arrears with yourself that I would use any means necessary to get you at least back to neutral levels if you were one of mine.

4. Anyone who cannot deal with the fact that you need time to recharge, you have opinions of your own, or things you do by yourself is someone you should be wary of. Not respecting your boundaries, however tentative you draw them, is an automatic red flag in my book.

---

Inspired by @repetitionsings post about exploded badger primaries.

[repetitionsings]

I was thinking about some things that annoy me about other people and I'm curious if they also annoy other Badger Birds (inspired by your post a couple weeks ago about figuring out your secondary, although I'm pretty sure of mine).

E.g. misunderstandings bug the crap out of me. If I'm on, say, a Twitch chat and I can see that two people are talking past each other, even if it's about something completely inconsequential, it's really hard for me to ignore it. I feel a really strong urge to Explain Things. Sometimes I try to ignore this if it's very clearly inconsequential and/or none of my business, and I can ignore it, but it's hard.

Similarly I also have a lot of trouble ignoring a question when I know the answer, even if I'm busy and don't really have time to answer it - my sister and I joke that I'm physically incapable of not answering questions about Stardew Valley.

It also annoys me when I see someone doing something wrong and I feel like they should be able to notice that other people are doing it differently. E.g. when I was young and doing competitive swimming, sometimes I'd notice that someone in a nearby lane had misheard the instructions or whatever and was practicing the wrong stroke, and I'd be like "how do they not notice that everyone else is doing something different??" This one might specifically be an Actor Bird thing, I think?

Thoughts? Hopefully there was something interesting in here and not just a long ramble about random stuff lol.

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Fellow Badger/Bird here, and oh anon, you are speaking my language in this one. All three of these are ways to drive me straight up a wall.

If I'm on, say, a Twitch chat and I can see that two people are talking past each other, even if it's about something completely inconsequential, it's really hard for me to ignore it. I feel a really strong urge to Explain Things.

Every time! Even if I heavily side with one part of the discussion/argument over the other -- even if the misunderstanding isn’t really part of what’s being argued about -- it’s really hard not to want to step in and correct the misunderstanding.

It also deeply annoys me when people seem to be purposefully misinterpreting each other’s arguments. Or when people play the gotcha card of “well, I said X and even though you think X means Y, you argued with my post as if X means Z, which means deep down you agree with me that X means Z.” No! No it doesn’t! It means I’ve paid enough attention to your argument to know what you mean by X! Or when semantics and definitions is part of a disagreement, but neither side takes that into account. Misunderstanding alone are frustrating, but when you don’t even take steps to try and account for it in a situation where you should know the likelihood is there, that really bugs me.

I also have a lot of trouble ignoring a question when I know the answer, even if I'm busy and don't really have time to answer it 

Every time. I have the answer, I want to give you the answer! Even if the question was idle and you don’t care about the answer! (And if I don’t have the answer I... probably want to look up the answer. XD)

I also have a really hard time not sharing information about a topic in general. If someone mentions something I know random trivia about, I want to jump in and share all the facts. Because I like the facts, and the facts are interesting, and I want you to know them and like them too!

It also annoys me when I see someone doing something wrong and I feel like they should be able to notice that other people are doing it differently.

I try not to speak up in these situations in real life because I know there’s probably plenty of cues I miss out on that baffle people, but yeah, any time somebody’s clearly missed the way other people are doing things around them I get the jittery urge to step in and show them. It’s also really annoying for me when watching competition shows or let’s plays! I like stuff like the Amazing Race, but any time there’s a challenge and one person struggles through like five others doing it when if they’d just look around and copy what other people are doing they’d be able to figure it out, I get so frustrated at my TV.

People who outright ignore instructions that are easily available bug me, too. Not everyone wants to go seek out the help stuff, fine, but if, say, I’m watching a let’s play, and the people involved talk straight over the instructions and then go “I’m not sure what I’m doing”, I just end up facepalming. Or if they miss what seems like a very obvious pattern -- this one comes up a lot during Jackbox streams for me. No of course that’s not Y’s answer! You just saw Y’s answer and this is the final round, they only do one!

[repetitionsings]

I dont know if this is a bird sec thing or just a me thing lol, but sometimes I get this weird brain fog where I cant lay things out in my mind. Its like a mental “looking but not seeing” type thing if that makes any sense. And it’s very uncomfy. Bird secondary thing?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

This sounds less like a secondary thing and more like a general how your brain works thing?

I’m not 100% sure whether you mean having a hard time visualizing, having a hard time breaking things down in your head, or something else related to that. But I get trouble with a lot of that stuff myself, and I don’t think it’s secondary related. (For me, it’s at least partly ADHD/executive dysfunction issues, especially the breaking things down! It may be a different reason altogether for you, of course; I don’t have nearly enough information to pin that part down.)

The discomfort might be -- Bird going “these tools aren’t working right now and I don’t like it” -- but it also might be related to why the difficulty is there, instead. All in all, I think this one is a people thing more than a house thing!

[repetitionsings]

an exploded badger here who'd like to, you know.. find healthier ways to function. do you have any ideas?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

I’m gonna run by this real fast on this one, but standard reminder that like unburning, unexploding almost always starts with getting yourself into a position where you’re safe enough to do so and working on what caused it. And in exploded Badger Primary especially, the chances are high that what’s around you contributed to that mindset.

But this seems to be more about looking for coping strategies or ways to help, not a full reversal. I’ll be honest, fighting the exploded bits of my Primary is something I’ve struggled with a lot -- even more than the burned parts, I think. I can offer some experience, and some conjecture, but it’s something that I’m still working out as well, so if anyone else who’s dealt with or is dealing with it has thoughts, I’d love to hear them added on.

Also I can offer a lot of sympathy and an open askbox, but that’s another story.

Some things that have done me good personally or that I believe would be helpful:

Note: Future-me popping back after the rest of the post to say that as a lot of this is from personal experience, some of it drifted into mental illness-adjacent topics and emotions that, for me, go strongly hand-in-hand with my exploded Badger. Nothing’s gone too deep into that area, but I thought it’d be good to shove in a head’s up for anyone who’s not up for that.

➢ Make friends that will nudge you to prioritize yourself. And if your exploding is largely focused on a community, having them be outside that community is helpful. My (Snake Primary) best friend is the greatest help in trying to head off an exploded Badger tailspin; she’s the one who will tell me that it’s okay if I don’t actually run myself ragged for everyone else, over and over again, when I need to be reminded. This is probably the #1 most helpful thing for me personally -- it’s so hard to hear past my own feelings that I should be doing more that it really takes the voice of someone else that I trust to give me that permission.

➢ Practice asking for help and setting boundaries in places where you can. If there’s any communities that manage not to hit that exploded Badger need in you as strongly -- maybe you’re more detached and not as invested in them, which is totally fine even if your primary sometimes argues about that --  or where what’s going on is unimportant enough that you can convince yourself it’s okay, try to practice there. My exploded Badger does not want me to say no or ask for assistance, even when it’s not a big deal; it’s easier to try to get used to it where it isn’t a big deal, before the important moments come around.

➢ This is not super helpful as a general statement, but without specifics it’s all I can say: try actively practicing and making time for self care. Since how that works is different for everyone, I can’t tell you how to deal with it, and god is it hard, but since so much of exploded Badger can be putting others over yourself, it’s also important to try and remember that you’re allowed to have things that will help you even if they’re not necessarily your active necessities. Time for you beyond obligations is important.

➢ A subset of the above, but work on giving yourself something that’s yours, specifically. I don’t know how universal this is but when my exploded Badger is at its loudest, I keep putting off thing I want to try -- hobbies, media, places to go, all of it -- because I’m waiting to not be doing it alone. Finally trying to get out of that mindset has felt weird and awkward and lonely at times, but has also done a lot of good already. Find solo projects and hobbies. Get into a show or a podcast no one else you know is into. Find a place that visually appeals to you and go on walks by yourself. It’s great to share things with people, it’s even fine if you share most things with people -- but try to get better at being okay with not sharing, too.

➢ This is another one that may or may not be a problem for you, but I also find when I get in that “do all things for others” place, it’s very easy for my opinions on anything, from the trivial to the important, to get easily steamrolled the second someone else speaks theirs, which I see as tied into that exploded Badger primary mindset. If that’s a problem for you: document how you think and feel about things. Publicly or privately. Babble into the abyss on tumblr as you watch a thing so that you don’t forget your opinion when someone else tells you theirs. Start a journal and write down your feelings on important issues before you find yourself ping-ponging around between others. Heck, start a journal and write down what foods you liked before you convince yourself you actually like something better the way someone else makes it. I’m not saying you’re writing these things in stone -- you are allowed to change your mind, there’s nothing wrong with that. But I find it hard to pull out of that urge to put other people first to the point where I feel like their opinions override mine. If you get that way too, writing it down, with reasons and details if you can, can at least help you see when you’re doing it and try to figure out whether your opinion is genuinely changing or you’d just shoved it aside.

➢ If the community you’re currently in isn’t entirely toxic, which is a different story altogether, remind yourself of things you love about your communities. That may sound counter-intuitive, but it’s a form of individualism -- trying to reshape the thought from “I’m here because I’m useful” to “I’m here because I like it”, and hopefully even “I’m here because I get this out of it”. It’s a way to remind yourself that it’s not supposed to be all one-sided. Also, I find that the exploded Badger mindset can sour me on places I do genuinely love when that isn’t ruling my brain, so it’s a way to try and pull out of that downslide.

➢ On the flip side, another possibility: take a break from your communities now and then to try and reset yourself. This obviously only works in some communities, and also only in ones that aren’t trying to push your exploded Badger, just ones where you find yourself exploding at them nonetheless. And mileage may vary depending on other things -- I actually try not to do this because my combo of executive dysfunction and anxiety means if I get out of the habit of keeping up with a community, it’s extremely difficult for me to jump back in. But if you don’t struggle with that, stepping back may help, both to disentangle yourself from that mindset and so that you can come back and see that they’ll be okay even if you’re not doing everything. Don’t isolate yourself completely, but if you find yourself getting deeply into exploded primary patterns in an area, it’s worth a try.

➢ Celebrate small victories. I’m sort of stealing this from this addition to my earlier unburning post, but it’s good advice in this situation, too. This stuff is hard. Even if you’re just trying to compensate or lessen the shouting and not fully reverse it right now, it’s hard. When you manage it, celebrate it. And if you can celebrate it with others who will encourage it, even better, for Badger in particular.

[repetitionsings]

Could you tell us more about wearing different houses and how we could use this to our 'sorting advantage'?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

And in relation to that, anon, if this is in reference to something mentioned previously on Wisteria's blog, I cannot find the original context! However, performing houses is something I'm particularly interested in, so let's talk about it. Without potential context, I’m not sure what exactly you mean by sorting advantage, so here’s my thoughts on two possible interpretations: How can we use performances to our advantage in figuring out our sorting?

Try to break down how it feels when you try to perform other houses.

Does it feel like you’re fundamentally going against something you should be doing? Okay, then it’s time to sit with that feeling. Figure out what part of you is objecting, and try to follow that line -- it may not lead to a glowing neon sign saying “congrats you’re a [x]!”, but it can get you in the ballpark.

Does it feel good? Okay, sit with that. What part of that feels good? Is there something right or natural about it? Can you try to filter to what that is? Maybe you’ve tried to put on something you are deep down. Maybe you’ve put on something that aligns on a particular axis, and can work your way from there to what your core is.

How can we use performances to help bolster our actual houses?

Oh boy, how can’t we?!

I see the benefits of performances as very similar to the benefits of models. Primary performances give you possible ways to check your primary, because all of the primaries have their areas where they need it now and again, and can help you figure out what to do when your primary doesn’t really have an opinion on the subject. Similarly, secondary performances can give you something familiar to fall back on when your secondary is unsuited to the task or the situation. They can give you something to lean on if your core house is currently struggling, to try not to tax it to the point of burning/exploding. They can just be fun to play with, especially secondaries. They can help you to write or act characters that match that performance, by giving you something to lean on in figuring them out.

Models are more rooted, so they’re going to be easier to use for most of these purposes -- it’s going to feel much more natural to do so. But performances are going to be easy to leave behind. You’re not going to get trapped between a performance and a core house, while it is definitely possible to find yourself trapped between a model and a core house, even if the core is likely to win out in the end.

It’s also helpful in understanding other people. No, a performance isn’t going to give you the same experience as living that core house -- but it can give you some inkling of it, and sometimes that can make a lot of difference.

[repetitionsings]

So badger primaries do things for people based on need and not how much they like them- but what about people they don’t like? If they haven’t dehumanized them, would they still feel justified for doing things for a semi-asshole? Like for me (bird/badger primary, not sure which, hopefully this ask might help lol) I would say “yeah I don’t like this person so *technically* I don’t need to do shit for them unless I want to unless I want to, (even though i do feel obligated and it would be hard for me to say no if I was asked)”. I’d still do favours and help people that I don’t like very much- just because. Is this what badgers do? Am I a bird with a badger model or a badger system? I don’t dehumanize either though. Even “bad people” are just people that have done bad things. They’re still human, just kind of shitty lol. Thoughts?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

I’m not going to be able to tell you straight-up whether you’re a Badger or have a Badger model/system, both because I don’t think this is enough information to do so -- I don’t know the factors that make you feel like Bird is likely, for one thing -- and because I prefer not to sort people. But I can tell you, as a Badger Primary, yeah, that’s more or less how it goes for me. Some people are jerks, but if they’re in enough need or they ask for help, I’m still much more likely to say yes than no.

The way they behave might affect things a little bit -- like, need-basing may also take into account if part of what’s happening is something they brought on themselves by being a jerk. Or if there’s two things that feel equally important going on, I’ll put the non-jerk first. (Or maybe if they’re not quite equal, but neither of them are overwhelmingly more important. I want to help everyone, but I’m still human, and I still have preferences for some people over others!) Or I might go above and beyond what’s asked of me for someone I do like, and just do the minimum that still gets the job done with someone I don’t.

But you hit the nail on the head there -- bad people are still people. They still deserve help. I may really, really wish they were asking somebody else for that help, but I still wouldn’t turn them away if they actually needed it.

As for dehumanizing, I’ve talked about this before but -- dehumanizing is not a requirement for being a Badger. In fact, the official description says: Hufflepuffs may or may not be more likely to other or dehumanize than the other Houses, but they and their species-wide fairness have a particular need for it.

Dehumanizing is not a Badger trait; however, it can be a Badger coping mechanism, as a way to feel less guilty for not giving somebody or some group of people the same treatment. And sometimes that’s leveraged against people in a shitty way, but sometimes it can be necessary to be able to walk out of situations that are bad for them.

[repetitionsings]

I know you have stuff for burned Lion to help unburn about what do I think could help the other primaries unburn? Like would a snake unburn just by going out a making friends? But like talking to people can be scary and it takes time to make friends... And I suppose Badgers could maybe join new communities I suppose. I have no idea what Bird would do other then make/fix their system but I have no clue how one would go about doing that.

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Not to get too serious here, but I think it's important to note this anyway: The first steps to unburning are the same for everyone, and it's getting yourself in a position where you can unburn, and working on what caused that damage. Something hurt you in a very important place. You need to get away from the thing that hurt you, and it's entirely possible there's going to be something you need to deal with about it before you can fully fix it. You might be able to get a little better, even if that's not immediately possible, but at its core, unburning is more about being able to deal with what caused you to burn than it is anything else.

But, if that's a road you can get on, there's likely to be things you can do along the way. I can’t tell you how to let people in, join new communities, or build a system, not the least because that’s gonna depend on your person who, what, and how too much for me to say generally. Also, I don’t see that as the process so much as both the consequence -- as you unburn, you’ll probably be able to figure out how to connect to these things in a way you had trouble doing when burnt -- and the eventual endgame. There are baby steps to go through first.

What I can offer is some generalities, and make some educated guesses at how they’ll apply to Snake and Bird Primaries, and some slightly more informed guesses from my position as a Burned Badger, but if anyone else -- any actual Snakes and Birds in particular -- have some insight on things that helped them or thoughts on what they think might do so, I'd love to hear it. Under the bump, because this post grew kinda long:

➢ Engage with fiction and media that feeds your primary.

Snakes can try attaching to characters; Birds can think about the rules underpinning a different life or universe; Badgers can borrow that found family feel from media to feed that need. Look up characters that share your primary, and think about how their stories make you feel. Make a playlist and stick songs that make your primary hum on it. Start keeping a document full of quotes or a bookmark folder full of images that hit your brain in that way.

You don’t need to be able to explain why you feel that way, especially not immediately. Get as tenuous and weird with those connections as you want! But spend some time listening for what your primary clicks with. From there you might want to dissect the why, or you might just want to wallow in it -- that’s probably a secondary thing, really -- but either way, the stockpile can be useful.

➢ Find low-impact things that feed your primary.

Which may not be the best phrasing, so let me give you an example: as a Badger who’s burned and a little hesitant about actively engaging in community, one of the things that really soothes that need for connection for me is livestreams. I don’t even read along the chats on most of them, but having that sense that other people are participating in the same thing I am gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me feel like a part of something. Timed challenges can do it too -- I like to participate in things like NaNoWriMo and NaPoWriMo, because there’s a sense that everyone’s in it together. These don’t require me to directly tackle the burn -- I’m not fully engaging, and nobody ever has to know I’m there, but it still feeds that part of me and keeps me attached to it.

I gotta admit for this one I don’t know necessarily what this might look like for Birds and Snakes -- I don’t even know if the things that work for me here would work for other Badgers! But if you can find something that stirs those feelings, while being non-important enough that you still can engage, hold on to it, make a note of it, and try to set aside time for it as best you can.

➢ Talk about important things with people who share your primary.

This might work better for some than others, but for me, being part of the SHC community has been a big help in helping me feel like my Badger could someday get healthier. Seeing other Badgers say things and going “oh! yeah! I get that!” feels really good. Now, maybe this is a Badger-community-seeking thing, so if any Birds/Snakes feel differently and want to chime in, go for it -- or it might look differently there! for Birds it might involve healthy debate, for Snakes listening to other Snakes gush about their loved ones -- but it may be worth giving a try.

And narrowing down the broad topic of healing specifically aimed at your primary, these are easier said than done, but the applicable ones probably need doing nonetheless: ➣ Accept that unburnt you may interact with your primary differently than memories you might have of pre-burnt you. ➣ Forgive yourself and don’t beat yourself up for being burned. ➣ When you do feel your primary stirring, learn not to doubt and shout it back down.

But as I said, these are just my thoughts as a Badger who’s still working on trying to unburn, so -- anyone else out there have suggestions or things that worked for them?

[sevilemar]

This is some next-level answer, very clear and insightful. So of course I'm stealing it to tell you about my own experiences as an unburning snake primary 😉.

Engage with fiction and media that feeds your primary

Finding The Vampire Diaries helped me so much with unburning. There's no two ways about it, TVD is a snake primary show. Two of the three main characters are snake primary, a lot of others have snakey values, and "It's (for) xy!" is reason enough for everyone to do the most risky shit you can think of. It helped me a lot in understanding that yes, it's OK to have this narrow focus, to see the world in terms of who is mine and who is not. The acceptance of the shc community did the rest.

For me, accepting this part of myself was a big step to unburning. And it definitely helped that I could latch onto Damon in the way I have done with other characters before.

Find low-impact things that affect your primary

For me, it was taking care of myself. I was not able to talk to or meet my friends much, let alone make new ones. But I never took myself out of my circle, so I focused on what I still got. I worked on my diet and sleeping habits, I reached a big financial goal, I got deep into shc and improved my self-awareness, I engaged in the shc community, and once I was a bit further along I took on a new project at work. It's not exactly low-impact, but all of it helped me gain confidence, and if it didn't work, nobody had to know.

And because I gained confidence in myself, I was able to renew and sustain my friendship with @wyrdnis. I felt like myself again for the first time in years when they asked to call me because they felt I specifically could help them with something. It's good to be needed 😉.

Talk about important things with people who share your primary

I have said before that engaging in the shc community is my way of figuring shc out for myself, and it's still true. What I didn't know I needed was the acceptance that came with it. It still feels magical when people say nice things about snakes (primary or secondary), because I have this deeply rooted belief that I'm not enough. People always leave me, after all, what else am I supposed to think? [And yes, I know this is burned snake talk]. Finding out that others actually like and appreciate the way I'm wired, it's weird and warm and sparkly and, well, magical. [And yes, I'm crying while typing this, which is very bad because I have to go back to being professional on camera in 10 minutes, but fuck it].

And it's not just other snake primaries, it's everyone in the community. It feels so good to be seen and accepted in a way that's at the same time deeply personal and not personal at all because most of you are strangers on the internet. And since "everyone gets snakes" as I've read so many times, for once it feels good to be easily understood.

Celebrate small victories

You answered a text from your friend immediately instead of after a few days? Great! You actually went out and met a friend? Awesome! You suggested something you could do together? Whoop whoop!

Trusting people, even people you know well and who are your friends, is difficult for burned snakes. For one reason or another, you do not click anymore like you used to. Something has changed, and you're not sure if it's you or them or just life. I have found that getting away for a bit, and then treating old friends like new acquaintances helps me find a new way of connecting with them. At least that's my hope. It's on-going, and results are sketchy due to other anxieties I have.

[reds-burrow]

Is it okay that I sometimes sort characters differently than what I see others sort them as? Not yours but I saw you're a fanfiction writer like me and it makes me worry that I'm not writing these characters right. Is there a way to get better at sorting?

Of course, it's okay! It means you have a different interpretation of the character, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as you can argue your case with evidence, your interpretation of a sorting is just as valid. Actually, I'm right there with you; I can think of four different sortings I've disagreed with just off the top of my head. And one of them is the main character of the current fic I'm writing, so I've questioned myself just like you. But we should both remember: SHC is an art. Not to mention some characters out there suffer from inconsistent writing or are never placed into nuanced moral dilemmas that we're dependent on to accurately sort them. So, if you're feeling confident enough, go ahead and share your interpretations. You may have caught something that the other person missed, but you'll never know unless you poke them with what you've noticed.

As far as getting better... Consume media with an analytical mind. Pause and examine when characters get into arguments or face tough decisions. Study what makes characters uncomfortable or anxious versus what they find easy or relaxing. Pay attention to character arcs, what lessons characters learn, and what pushes them to learn those lessons.

I'm not big on sorting real people unless I've known them for years or lived in the same household as them and truly gotten to know them, but I'd say it helps to get to know different people. Listen to what they value and what drives them. Watch how they work and get along with others. I am fortunate enough to have lived with all of the Primaries and all of the Secondaries. Not every sorting but the building blocks are there, and I feel like that's helped open my eyes to different styles of thinking. If you can't meet new people in real life, then read testimonials here on tumblr and on the SHC discord.

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, (re)read the basics. A couple of times now, I've thought I had some new insight on the system, only to check and realize Inky and Kat had it covered since the very start!

[repetitionsings]

I know you have stuff for burned Lion to help unburn about what do I think could help the other primaries unburn? Like would a snake unburn just by going out a making friends? But like talking to people can be scary and it takes time to make friends... And I suppose Badgers could maybe join new communities I suppose. I have no idea what Bird would do other then make/fix their system but I have no clue how one would go about doing that.

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Not to get too serious here, but I think it's important to note this anyway: The first steps to unburning are the same for everyone, and it's getting yourself in a position where you can unburn, and working on what caused that damage. Something hurt you in a very important place. You need to get away from the thing that hurt you, and it's entirely possible there's going to be something you need to deal with about it before you can fully fix it. You might be able to get a little better, even if that's not immediately possible, but at its core, unburning is more about being able to deal with what caused you to burn than it is anything else.

But, if that's a road you can get on, there's likely to be things you can do along the way. I can’t tell you how to let people in, join new communities, or build a system, not the least because that’s gonna depend on your person who, what, and how too much for me to say generally. Also, I don’t see that as the process so much as both the consequence -- as you unburn, you’ll probably be able to figure out how to connect to these things in a way you had trouble doing when burnt -- and the eventual endgame. There are baby steps to go through first.

What I can offer is some generalities, and make some educated guesses at how they’ll apply to Snake and Bird Primaries, and some slightly more informed guesses from my position as a Burned Badger, but if anyone else -- any actual Snakes and Birds in particular -- have some insight on things that helped them or thoughts on what they think might do so, I'd love to hear it. Under the bump, because this post grew kinda long:

➢ Engage with fiction and media that feeds your primary.

Snakes can try attaching to characters; Birds can think about the rules underpinning a different life or universe; Badgers can borrow that found family feel from media to feed that need. Look up characters that share your primary, and think about how their stories make you feel. Make a playlist and stick songs that make your primary hum on it. Start keeping a document full of quotes or a bookmark folder full of images that hit your brain in that way.

You don’t need to be able to explain why you feel that way, especially not immediately. Get as tenuous and weird with those connections as you want! But spend some time listening for what your primary clicks with. From there you might want to dissect the why, or you might just want to wallow in it -- that’s probably a secondary thing, really -- but either way, the stockpile can be useful.

➢ Find low-impact things that feed your primary.

Which may not be the best phrasing, so let me give you an example: as a Badger who’s burned and a little hesitant about actively engaging in community, one of the things that really soothes that need for connection for me is livestreams. I don’t even read along the chats on most of them, but having that sense that other people are participating in the same thing I am gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me feel like a part of something. Timed challenges can do it too -- I like to participate in things like NaNoWriMo and NaPoWriMo, because there’s a sense that everyone’s in it together. These don’t require me to directly tackle the burn -- I’m not fully engaging, and nobody ever has to know I’m there, but it still feeds that part of me and keeps me attached to it.

I gotta admit for this one I don’t know necessarily what this might look like for Birds and Snakes -- I don’t even know if the things that work for me here would work for other Badgers! But if you can find something that stirs those feelings, while being non-important enough that you still can engage, hold on to it, make a note of it, and try to set aside time for it as best you can.

➢ Talk about important things with people who share your primary.

This might work better for some than others, but for me, being part of the SHC community has been a big help in helping me feel like my Badger could someday get healthier. Seeing other Badgers say things and going “oh! yeah! I get that!” feels really good. Now, maybe this is a Badger-community-seeking thing, so if any Birds/Snakes feel differently and want to chime in, go for it -- or it might look differently there! for Birds it might involve healthy debate, for Snakes listening to other Snakes gush about their loved ones -- but it may be worth giving a try.

And narrowing down the broad topic of healing specifically aimed at your primary, these are easier said than done, but the applicable ones probably need doing nonetheless: ➣ Accept that unburnt you may interact with your primary differently than memories you might have of pre-burnt you. ➣ Forgive yourself and don’t beat yourself up for being burned. ➣ When you do feel your primary stirring, learn not to doubt and shout it back down.

But as I said, these are just my thoughts as a Badger who’s still working on trying to unburn, so -- anyone else out there have suggestions or things that worked for them?

[repetitionsings]

I'd be fascinated to know how anxiety plays into primaries and secondaries, if people with anxiety burn more easily and if they model certain things.

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

How much more easily I can't personally say, but hoo boy, anxiety is definitely one way to burn a House to a crisp. How it affects houses in general... I feel like that’s going to be so different by person I can’t say very specifically. But anxiety’s going to make it hard to trust yourself, and I personally theorize that lack of trust in yourself is one of the fastest routes to burning. (Especially a secondary -- but lacking trust in your ability to know what’s good/right/important can also mess up a primary pretty fast.)

I would not be surprised if people with anxiety tend to model a lot, because they’re trying to make up for that nervousness. However, personal experience is going to play into that so heavily, between what they’re anxious about specifically, what their influences are, and how their houses play into each other, I don’t think there’s going to be anything specifically that gets modelled across the board -- though I would be surprised if a lot of people model Snake Secondary specifically for anxiety reasons?

I would not be surprised if at least certain kinds of anxiety lead to modelling Bird Secondary specifically, because of planning and double-checking, but I don’t think that’s universal! (I know my Bird Sec is the target of my anxiety way more than it’s a relief to it, personally.) I also wouldn’t be surprised if people with anxiety who haven’t burned their Primary have had a lot of checks built into it, and otherwise put it through a lot of testing just to make sure they’re not going astray -- though this is probably more noticeable with some primaries than others, depending on what they use as a check.

Also, this one is entirely anecdotal, but... anxiety definitely leads to me doubting my sorting a lot. Does a single other sorting feel at all applicable when I go looking through it again? Not really -- but what if I am wrong about that, I ask myself, taking the quiz again for the fourth time this month. So, I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes people with some kind of anxiety longer to settle on a sorting, because that’s definitely my experience!

[repetitionsings]

I’m curious about your thoughts on burned secondaries. Is it possible to completely burn away and replace secondary? What about a model and can a model come back? And what to all the different burned secondaries look like?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Is it possible to completely burn away and replace secondary?

My personal view on this is that yes, it’s possible; or at least, this is a reasonable way of describing things. This possibility was always mentioned for the system with fictional characters specifically -- the basics still discuss characters who have thoroughly and completely burned their secondaries; as I remember the breakdown, or possibly lost posts, previously discussed these characters also building a new one. Burning a secondary completely probably isn’t something that happens easily or to most people. I think most people retain at least enough of their secondary to point them in a direction, even if that pointing’s being done by feeling like you really particularly lack that particular skill set because your trust in your abilities is so far gone. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen sometimes.

More to the point, I can see why someone might find it a useful way to describe themselves over time, and since the point of the whole system is to give you a way to describe yourself, I don’t think there’s any reason to rule out that option for someone who wants it. What is essentially the same feeling and thought process could be described as either:“I was a Lion Secondary but I burned so completely I lost it. Now I’m a Bird Secondary.”or“I burned my Lion Secondary so thoroughly I don’t really feel those instincts anymore. I live in my Bird Secondary Model now, and I feel more comfortable that way; in fact I think I’d feel more strained and unhappy trying to behave like a Lion Secondary.”

It just depends on what feels right to the person. And the only way to really know for sure which is more accurate is for someone to get pushed to the point of being forced to drop that Bird Model if it is one, and that’s not exactly something you want to make happen.

That said, I’m under the impression my feelings on this one are less popular, and a lot of the SHC community doesn’t think changing your houses is possible. If anyone else wants to jump in with an alternate view, please do!

What about a model and can a model come back? 

Models can burn, models can return! Models can change much more freely and easily than core houses even if, like me, you do believe core sortings can change. While it’s possible that a model could just be dropped when unnecessary without burning, it’s also absolutely possible for something to happen to damage whatever benefit you were getting from your model or make you lose trust in your ability to use it. You’re using that model because you get something from it, after all, and there’s no reason you can’t be disillusioned towards that even if it isn’t your first instinct.

That might be temporary to begin with -- something like a depressive episode might thoroughly burn all your secondary states, core and model, in a way that recedes when that particular episode ends. Or you might have liked your model enough that you work on unburning it so you can use it, either consciously or not, the same way you might with your core secondary if it’s burned. But you can definitely get a model back, even if it burns on you; you might just need to clean out the muck of where things went bad.

And what to all the different burned secondaries look like?

To be honest, I’m not sure I can answer this any better than the basics post and the quiz already do. A fully and completely burned secondary looks like doing things without any real comfort, joy, or even preference for how it’s getting done. If there’s enough left of the secondary in there to sort out which it is, it’s probably in the form of wanting to use those skills, but feeling like they’re not capable of it, or like it’d be nice to be able to do things that way in a perfect world, but that won’t work.From the outside, it can look very similar no matter what’s below. Thorough burning with no models is someone who just does, no preferred method. Someone with models and a burned enough secondary probably looks like their model, but in their own head might be beating themselves up a bit for not being able to do it the better way. A less-thorough burning without models is harder to pin down, because people deal with burning in different ways: it might also look like no preferred method, it might be that they second-guess that instinct so much it makes the act look clumsy or they end up self-defeating their attempt, or it might just involve shrugging it off as not good enough no matter how much it looks like they’re using their house fine from the outside.

[awinterrain]

so for me it's less that i don't think it's possible for your houses to change and more that i think they're unlikely to because i see your primary and secondary as more structural and closer to something like your most intrinsic tendencies for why and how to do things.

and in my experience they rarely change much. their manifestation and appearance definitely can and do but even when you lose all confidence in them, the tendencies still seem to remain.

my tendency when trying to do anything has always been to observe and be cautious and careful. that was the case when i was a baby and it still is 40 years on. things work better when i honour that tendency than when i try to override it (which i have done a fair amount because i was always told i needed to be more assertive or outgoing or push-forward or whatever it was.)

i've watched other people spend their whole lives trying to override their natural tendencies and i've never seen it end well or happily. (learning to use other secondaries in tandem with your own is a different matter entirely.)

[repetitionsings]

I agree with this entirely! I don’t think you should feel like you need to change, I don’t think changing because you feel like you need to reject your natural instincts is a good idea, and I think it’s extremely unlikely for most people’s core sorting to change.

It’s just hard for me to believe that there is anything that cannot change. Maybe it’s extraordinarily rare. Maybe it’s only something that happens as the result of a lot of terrible things. But I find it very hard to believe it can never happen.

(Also, I really do think for me it’s partly a matter of putting personal definition over anything else. If someone thinks their sorting has changed, if defining it that way makes them more comfortable, I wouldn’t argue with them, so why not acknowledge that as an option from the start.)

[repetitionsings]

I am fighting the urge to run my ask responses by other people for... just generally to have done so before letting them loose in the world by pondering, instead, whether the urge to have somebody check things first -- not some things, but to always have things checked first -- is tied to sorting in any particular way or not.

I do not have a conclusion because it’s 5 am, but I am pondering.

[repetitionsings]

I’m curious about your thoughts on burned secondaries. Is it possible to completely burn away and replace secondary? What about a model and can a model come back? And what to all the different burned secondaries look like?

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Is it possible to completely burn away and replace secondary?

My personal view on this is that yes, it’s possible; or at least, this is a reasonable way of describing things. This possibility was always mentioned for the system with fictional characters specifically -- the basics still discuss characters who have thoroughly and completely burned their secondaries; as I remember the breakdown, or possibly lost posts, previously discussed these characters also building a new one. Burning a secondary completely probably isn’t something that happens easily or to most people. I think most people retain at least enough of their secondary to point them in a direction, even if that pointing’s being done by feeling like you really particularly lack that particular skill set because your trust in your abilities is so far gone. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen sometimes.

More to the point, I can see why someone might find it a useful way to describe themselves over time, and since the point of the whole system is to give you a way to describe yourself, I don’t think there’s any reason to rule out that option for someone who wants it. What is essentially the same feeling and thought process could be described as either: “I was a Lion Secondary but I burned so completely I lost it. Now I’m a Bird Secondary.” or “I burned my Lion Secondary so thoroughly I don’t really feel those instincts anymore. I live in my Bird Secondary Model now, and I feel more comfortable that way; in fact I think I’d feel more strained and unhappy trying to behave like a Lion Secondary.”

It just depends on what feels right to the person. And the only way to really know for sure which is more accurate is for someone to get pushed to the point of being forced to drop that Bird Model if it is one, and that’s not exactly something you want to make happen.

That said, I’m under the impression my feelings on this one are less popular, and a lot of the SHC community doesn’t think changing your houses is possible. If anyone else wants to jump in with an alternate view, please do!

What about a model and can a model come back? 

Models can burn, models can return! Models can change much more freely and easily than core houses even if, like me, you do believe core sortings can change. While it’s possible that a model could just be dropped when unnecessary without burning, it’s also absolutely possible for something to happen to damage whatever benefit you were getting from your model or make you lose trust in your ability to use it. You’re using that model because you get something from it, after all, and there’s no reason you can’t be disillusioned towards that even if it isn’t your first instinct.

That might be temporary to begin with -- something like a depressive episode might thoroughly burn all your secondary states, core and model, in a way that recedes when that particular episode ends. Or you might have liked your model enough that you work on unburning it so you can use it, either consciously or not, the same way you might with your core secondary if it’s burned. But you can definitely get a model back, even if it burns on you; you might just need to clean out the muck of where things went bad.

And what to all the different burned secondaries look like?

To be honest, I’m not sure I can answer this any better than the basics post and the quiz already do. A fully and completely burned secondary looks like doing things without any real comfort, joy, or even preference for how it’s getting done. If there’s enough left of the secondary in there to sort out which it is, it’s probably in the form of wanting to use those skills, but feeling like they’re not capable of it, or like it’d be nice to be able to do things that way in a perfect world, but that won’t work. From the outside, it can look very similar no matter what’s below. Thorough burning with no models is someone who just does, no preferred method. Someone with models and a burned enough secondary probably looks like their model, but in their own head might be beating themselves up a bit for not being able to do it the better way. A less-thorough burning without models is harder to pin down, because people deal with burning in different ways: it might also look like no preferred method, it might be that they second-guess that instinct so much it makes the act look clumsy or they end up self-defeating their attempt, or it might just involve shrugging it off as not good enough no matter how much it looks like they’re using their house fine from the outside.