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@reptilecringe
If I rb your post with an #education tag chances are most or all of it wasn't cringe
What do you think of NERD I've only seen a few of their videos and they kinda struck me as a bit off - especially the spider ball python one - but I wanted another opinion
NERD is definitely a mixed bag, but I lean towards a general blanket statement of caution with them.
In the past, NERD was one of the most reputable names out there. Their venomous snake handling and understanding of reptile body language and behavior is always textbook perfect.
However, there's a lot of issues with the channel, too. They're very dismissive of unethical breeding practices, like spider ball pythons, and they do far too much in-house medical care on their snakes. There's never any excuse to be performing surgery on any snake yourself - that's what vets are for!
Rest in peace, little Jor
(This post is from my old account, which I deleted. It happened a year ago, but the message is still the same, so I will reblog it again in his memory. If this can help anyone, It will be worth it)
For everyone that didn’t know me before hand, this little cuddle thing here is my boy, Jormundgandr.
Jor perished two days ago. There’s nothing that we could do to help him, I’m not asking for “likes” or “follows”, but I want to explain his story. I adopted him when he was barely 30cm long. He was a Python Regius, a specie around 165cm in his adulthood. He was a baby, but even then most people considered him dangerous. Because he was a snake. Because snakes have no feelings. Because pythons are stressed easily. Almost everybody told me to keep him in his terrarium almost constantly, but it seemed unfair to me. Instead of keeping the terrarium in the humidity and heat necessary to him, I heated the entire room, so Jor could roam all over the place. His favorite spots were in my lap when I was reading or around my headbed when we were sleeping.
The first time I put him in the bureau to sleep, he grabbed a plushie and threw it to the ground. Hearing the noise, I went to see what happened, and immediately he leaped right into my arms, so I had to put him in my headrest. It being summer in my city, the temperature was adequate to him, so I promptly began to go everywhere with him, as he wouldn’t let go of my hair or clothes.
I travelled with him in the subway, went to the bank, to the supermarket, to take a drink… He usually went around my neck like a necklace or entangled himself in my hair or around my ponytail.
While I sat, he would cuddle with me. Most people were curious about a snake in the subway or in a café, but instead of becoming stressed, as he had been in the streets since a baby, he let everyone pet and grab him, sometimes even prompting himself strangers to initiate the contact. His behaviour towards me was very expressive. He recognized me out of everyone. When he was sleepy, he came to me. When he was thirsty, he told me. Sometimes he didn’t want people to pet him and he literally jumped into my arms. Jor didn’t like people touching his head, but let me kiss him on the mouth every time I was very happy or a bit nostalgic. He promptly began to sense my mood-swings and came over to me when I was a bit sad. But the most surprising was the time he sneaked on my (pun intended) friend’s cat. He saw him and wanted to play. Of course, the feline scratched him, playfully. But he didn’t bite, he didn’t attack, only curled himself up very scared. We went running to the vet, and he was fine, only a bit scratched. Only then the man noticed a little bite in his neck, from the mice that he was supposed to eat. He was so fucking docile that his own food attacked him instead of the opposite! But his scales were very bright, sign of healthy and happiness, the wounds cured quickly. But that wasn’t the surprise. When I entered the room where jor was being examined, he was curled in a little ball of misery, and then I approached him, crying. When the snake sensed my touch, uncurled, stretched his neck and deposited his little mouth to my lips, as he ever did when he felt my sadness. Jor made this same movement every time he saw me cry… And not only this. He ate with me, bathed with me, and even slept with me. Three different vets said to me that jormundgander was convinced I was his mom. In the last comic convention in my city, where I had a little shop, he came and stayed with me all day.
He was on the table, playing with the merchandise, cuddling with people and letting us dress him in little cosplays.
When tired he would simply hide in my mobile case for an hour or so and then came out again (unless there was a cat, he was terrified of them after the incident).
That day he decided that it wasn’t worth the trouble to drink from a bottle cap and began to drink directly from my lips. But a few days ago, he couldn’t breathe. Only then we found out that the little bite in his neck had healed, but let a minor infection inside him that expanded to his lungs. He was so happy all the time that his scales never faded as it happens with sick serpents and none suspected anything. And even when he was dying, with me crying as I held him in my arms, even when he was barely moving and didn’t let anyone touch him (when capable of moving), he cuddled in my lap, searching with his head to touch my skin and made little movements as if to say that he was fine. So for all the dickhead people outta here that think those animals are dangerous by birth, that they had no feelings nor are they capable of getting attached. What about all the cuddling, the baths, the shiny scales? The kisses when I was sad? Am I supposed to believe that this all was a misinterpretation? That what all the fucking people around me saw was an illusion? So I will only say one thing to everyone that says and thinks that snakes have no sentiments: That’s BULLSHIT! Maybe his feelings are way more primitive than ours, or that of dogs, but those are feelings nonetheless, and they matter. So this is the story of Jormurgander, the evidence that if you show your love to them since youth, they will return your feelings, and will be as loyal and lovely as any other pet.
Rest in peace, little Jor. I’m sure noone that has met you in your life will forget you.
First off, I’m so sorry that you’ve lost your snake. Normally I wouldn’t do this. Normally I wouldn’t invade somebody’s grief with an agenda, but what’s gone on here is very much a cautionary tale and I’d be frankly remiss if this gets traction with so much misinformation about snakes. I don’t want somebody to see this post and do what you did. This post poses a danger to other first-time snake owners. Everything you did, everything you did for your snake was dangerous. The sad fact is that this wouldn’t have happened if you had followed the care sheets and paid attention to the natural history and lifestyle of the species you chose to own. Instead, you treated him like an animal he is not- a human. I don’t doubt for one instant the love you had for your snake, but there’s a reason he died young and that reason was totally avoidable errors in husbandry. You literally loved your snake to death. Everything in your story is dangerous to snakes. Everything. I was hoping that much of it was exaggerated because had you really seen three vets who knew anything about reptiles, they would have told you that what you were doing was dangerous.
Let’s start with your basic husbandry. Ball pythons are from tropical Africa. They need high humidity and warm ambient temperatures. I really don’t think your room could support that. The warm end of his thermogradient needed to be a constant 95 degrees Fahrenheit. Can you honestly tell me you maintained 60% humidity and 95 degree temperatures in your bedroom? There’s a reason we keep ball pythons in terraria. It’s so we can provide safe and healthy microclimates for them. It’s so that we can control their world so that they are healthy. By forcing your snake to sleep with you and interact with you so constantly, you were taking away his ability to choose what part of a regulated microclimate he was existing in; you were forcing him to exist in this strange, uncomfortably dry world. I don’t know if you ever kept him in his terrarium- you didn’t say- but I do know that forcing him to sleep with you (instead of letting him roam around a nice big terrarium as a nocturnal animal would like to do) was extremely unhealthy. I’m going to guess that even though you say it was summer where you were he was chilly most of the time. And uncomfortable. Most of the time ball pythons like to climb, but you say he was constantly on you, cuddling. The cuddling? That’s not cuddling. When humans touch, it triggers a wave of oxytocin, the “bonding hormone.” It makes us feel good and happy.
Snakes don’t produce oxytocin.
What was happening was that you were warm. Your body temperature is 98.6 degrees, which is very cosy for a ball python. He wasn’t hugging you, he was leaching your body heat.
You taking him out in public was dangerous as well. What if some café owner had seen him and panicked and called Animal Control? Even if he’s an emotional support animal (which you did not mention him being), you don’t actually have the legally protected right to take him anywhere except on an airplane. He could have gotten sick from all the public contact. You say he wasn’t stressed, but how do you know? What do you think the stress behaviors of a ball python are?
It was also dangerous to ever allow him around a cat. Cats have gram-negative bacteria in their saliva. This gets under their claws and multiplies as they groom. Gram-negative bacteria have a protective layer that makes it harder for the immune system to fight off. As for his mice biting him… Why weren’t you feeding him frozen prey? Did you try? Let me guess, he refused to eat the frozen mice. He wasn’t not eating because he was docile, he wasn’t eating because he was constantly stressed. Snakes don’t eat when they’re scared or uncomfortable with their environment.
The shiny scales? Your snake had stuck shed. It’s not healthy for a snake to have a stuck shed. Stuck sheds are a sign of improper humidity or temperatures.
The baths were also a mistake. Snakes can’t thermoregulate like we do, so whatever temperature the water is at is what they’re stuck with. And we humans tend to run water much hotter than a snake is comfortable with. In general, you shouldn’t run the water for a snake’s bath (which should only happen rarely and when necessary- like if they have a stuck shed or crawled through their poop) any warmer than lukewarm- it should only feel mildly warm on the inside of your wrist. Tub cleaning chemicals and the chemicals in soap are also toxic to snakes, and if he consumed any of the water, even by accident, he could have fallen ill- which could have contributed to his demise.
And now I need to tell you about anthropomorphism, which is the primary reason I’m reblogging this post. Bad husbandry is correctible, but what’s really dangerous here is this mindset that your snake is as emotionally sophisticated as you think he is. Snakes don’t feel love. They can’t. They’re physically incapable of feeling love. They have emotions- aggression, curiosity, comfort- but they don’t love. You have attributed distinctly human emotions to an animal that literally does not have the brain structure or hormonal presence to feel these things. Even a mammal wouldn’t display many of the behaviors you attribute to this snake’s conscious decisions. Snakes can’t read your mind. They can maybe pick up on some body language- if you’re big and threatening, the snake will be scared, for instance, but he wasn’t picking up on your mood swings. He was just a snake doing snakey things. But by reading into his behavior with these human emotions, you created this image of a snake in your mind that’s more akin to the behavior of a snake in a fantasy novel. Snakes have emotions, but not the ones attributed in this post.
That snake didn’t think you were his mum. Ball pythons have no interactions with their parents post-hatching and there’s no evidence that they even recognize their parents. Snakes scatter pretty quickly because adult snakes of many species will eat baby snakes. I don’t actually believe that three vets told you in earnest that you were his mum- and if they did, I’d like their names so that the reptile community can know that these vets support dangerous anthropomorphism and make their veterinary choices accordingly. Responsible vets would never tell you that it’s ok to free-roam a ball python in a bedroom.
The kisses? Weren’t kisses. They were just your snake booping you with his face. My snake does that too and it’s not because he loves me, it’s because my mouth smells interesting and he’s curious. Snakes are gloriously curious and that’s part of the charm of owning one- to see how their natural behaviors allow them to thrive in our care. That’s if we provide what they need for their existence. There are millions of happy, healthy pet ball pythons in this world and none of them are sleeping with their owners. Instead, they’re living in terraria. They’re not jumping into their owners’ arms or kissing them on the lips; they’re engaging in natural behaviors in an unnatural environment and exploring things to satisfy their own curiosity, not your emotional needs.
So, yes. This was a misinterpretation. This was you placing human emotions on a snake. Everybody makes mistakes, but I just feel that had you read a single care sheet and thought for a moment about why the widely-accepted care practices are so widely accepted, this tragedy would not have happened. I hope you take this into consideration before buying another animal because keeping a snake this way will only end in the same emotionally devastating results. I know this hurts to hear- I know you really, truly loved your snake and you did what you thought was best for him. But sometimes what we think is the best because of our emotions isn’t the best for their care. Their physical well being depends on us. They can’t make choices about their care- they are pets. They don’t have that agency. It’s up to us as pet owners to do what’s right, and sometimes that means putting our emotions and desires aside for the sake of their physical health. Trust me, nobody knows that better than me. I lived this.
This is Kaiju. The love of my life. The best thing that’s ever happened to me.
She’s an Argentine black and white tegu, and I thought that I could free-roam her safely and happily. I set things up so that she had humid hides, hot spots, everything. This decision was made with what I thought was her best interest in mind- I thought that because she’s a big, active lizard that free-roaming would be good for her.
And then I saw this.
And I almost threw up when I did. This is an x-ray of Rex, a tegu who had been free-roamed for much longer than Kaiju. His owners treated him like a king- they gave him what he wanted to eat and let him roam and live with them like part of the family. But this took a toll on Rex, a price paid by his arthritic joints and digestive system and kinked spine. A price he could have paid with his life. I knew then that even though I was trying so hard to take good care of my baby, she was going to suffer if I kept things up. So I went out and got an enclosure and got honest with myself about what she really needed and got over my own ego and ideas to provide what was best for her, not me.
I’m so sorry to be the bearer of this bad news, but it’s the truth. We choose to bring these animals into our home; we take them and we make them ours, and providing the proper environment for them to thrive is the least we can do. This is truly the danger of anthropomorphism; when you start attributing these impossible emotions to your pets, you run the risk of forgetting who and what they really are.
REBLOGGING strictly for the response
You know what I’m never gonna forget
is how this person sent me a bunch of messages before they deleted
screaming at me for ruining their cosplay hobby
that was their takeaway from this whole situation.
While I think the response was extremely factually accurate and you truly care about animals @kaijutegu , I also think that OP. Meant the best and is probably upset about the response being given in such a sensitive time in her life. I understand you probably have good intentions but the comment came across as an attack and it seems really rude and insensitive even if it was intended to be informative. I mean no harm to both of you. Good vibes to you both. ❤️
When this was posted, it was well over a year after the snake died. It wasn’t like I was invading their immediate grief. It wasn’t at a sensitive time in their life.
Also, I don’t give a single flying fuck about what OP meant. I no longer have good intentions towards them at this point, because they’re actually a really crappy person who never cared about the snake in the first place. They only cared about what this did to their reputation in the cosplay community and how the response “tainted” Loki for them as a cosplay. Frankly, it was an attack on an abusive pet owner. I don’t care about OP’s feelings because they should feel bad for what they did. You want rude and insensitive? Try fucking killing a snake for attention.
oh NO
this is NOT gonna end well
Spider morph ball pythons are a frequently bred design morph with striking alterations of the skin color pattern. We created high resolution µCT-image series through the otical region of the skulls, used 3D-reconstruction software for rendering anatomical models, and compare the anatomy of the semicircular ducts, sacculus and ampullae of wildtype Python regius (ball python) with spider morph snakes. All spider morph snakes showed the wobble condition. We describe the inner ear structures in wild-type and spider-morph snakes and report a deviant morphology of semicircular canals, ampullae and sacculus in spider morph snakes. We also report about associated differences in the desmal skull bones of spider morph snakes. The spider morph snakes were characterized by wider semicircular canals, anatomically poorly defined ampulla, a deformed crus communis and a small sacculus, with a highly deviant x-ray morphology as compared to wildtype individuals. We observed considerable intra- and interindividual variability of these features. This deviant morphology of spider morph snakes can easily be associated with an impairment of sense of equilibrium and the observed neurological wobble condition. Limitations in sample size prevent statistical analyses, but the anatomical evidence is strong enough to support an association between the wobble condition in design bread spider morph snakes and a malformation of the inner ear structures. A link between artificially selected alterations in pattern and specific color design with neural-crest associated developmental malformations of the statoacoustic organ as known from other vertebrates is discussed. ### Competing Interest Statement The authors have declared no competing interest.
Heeeeeeey….. Lookit that! Spider Wobble appears to be a vestibular disorder! So it’s basically the ball python version of corn snake ‘gazers’ (that really should be referred to as a corn snake heritable vestibular disorder.)
two and a half sentence horror story
i am screaming
things responsible breeders don’t do: sell somebody who clearly has no idea what they are doing a snake that can hit 15+ feet
If you produce giant snakes, you absolutely have a responsibility to make sure they end up in capable homes. OP was dumb as hell for buying a burm as a first snake, but the breeder is the one truly at fault here.
holy mother of chunk how did this animal get to be in this condition
From the CL listing: “Up for adoption is a female Ackie monitor lizard about 3-4 years old. She is very docile and holdable, she is missing a lot of toes and nails but gets around fine. I bought her like that last October and told she was a male red ackie, but I believe she is a female. Eating great on crickets, dubia roaches, egg, ground turkey, superworms, and raw seafood. $300 firm, no trades, pick up only.”
this poor animal has no complete toes on her front feet and is… I didn’t know ackies could get this fat. Here’s what that neck is supposed to look like:
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a monitor this obese.
i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers
to everyone saying “AXOLOTLS ARE WILD ANIMALS NOT PETS” in the tags, no. stop it. you don’t know what you’re talking about. half of the entire species lives in captivity and keeping them as pets helps preserve the species. what you’re NOT supposed to do is buy one on a whim because it’s cute or you saw it in a game or because you want clicks. they require a lot of care, highly specific temperature and water quality, you have to look out for parasites and sicknesses, you have to feed them live worms, you can’t have them in a tank with other fish who may bite their gills,
basically what i’m saying is, i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers i hate youtubers
An appallingly underweight fire skink
A visual example of how NOT to set up a bearded dragon enclosure. Only 3 feet long. No water bowl. Repticarpet. Morbidly obese lizard.
That may be the fattest beardie I've ever seen.
Edit: their response to the lack of water bowl? "I bathe her every 3 days"... Because as we know, they regularly take baths in the wild...
Feed more greens, offer water.
He deleted the post in a huff because everyone was commenting that he should fix the care for his existing reptile rather than get a new one. He also doesn't think she's fat.
This is the standard of keeping ball pythons. Its the most common technique, and it IS widly spread.
We can do better than this. This kind of stuff doesnt allow for a range of natural behaviors. It makes us look like animal abusers. Yes, the animals survive, but they cannot thrive in this setting. There’s literally not enough room for even one of them to stretch all the way out.
We can do better. We have to do better because this isn’t good for the animals health wise, or even mentally. It also gives HSUS and PETA more grounds to ban reptiles as pets.
Enrichment provides animals with an outlet for natural behaviors and promotes healthy animals. There are tons of studies on the benefits of enrichment- it’s not an extra step- it’s necessary for the good of the animal and is part of proper husbandry.
Dont be like this picture; dare to do more.
(image source purposely withheld)
It’s not an extra step, it’s necessary
Okay I’m in a lot of snake groups and I’ve NEVER seen a ball python set up like this 🤨 This looks like someone who’s transporting the snake short term or cleaning its tank and needs temporary housing. If that’s a permanent home, that snake is going to last one year tops.
Those are expensive morphs, too. No one’s dropping a thousand bucks on a bp only to stash it in a bucket.
I’m calling bull shit on this being “standard keeping of ball pythons.” Looking again, those are probably being put together to breed or to bring to a show.
You calling “bullshit” only shows your inexperience and ignorance of the problem.
These are also not expensive morphs. The first ones pictured are a super mystic and pastel spider. Basic combos. But go wild and doubt the issues i guess- just know you arent helping to aid these animals in the least.
Hi my name is Heather, and ive been breeding ball pythons as an active community member for 10 years.
(please please read my whole comment) okay. Ball python owner here. this does strike a cord in me because a lot of BPs are kept in horrible rack systems. do I think racks systems as a whole are bad? ….depends. I have seen rack systems that are quite big with the individual tubs having several hides, clutter and enrichment, so it can work for some snakes as long as you get them out regularly /offer some other form of enrichment. HOWEVER: quite a lot of breeders or reptile keepers (it seems), who keep in a rack wont even provide one hide, claiming the tub to be a hide in itself, which is false. also some wont even bother with substrate/just dump in paper towels. they argue that the snakes survive and even breed, which they do, but they dont have happy lives. now, I only have one sub adult Ball python, who has a big vivarium all to his own, with a bioactive setup and opportunities to climb, which he LOVES to do at night. and no he is not stressed, he is very tame, would eat every day if he could (actually a tad chubby at the moment), sleeps during the day like a good BP should and seems to enjoy his life. do I think thats the only way you can keep a BP? no. quite expensive and not feasable for everyone. but if you decide to keep in a rack or a single tub, at the very least put in some fucking effort and do research. what has been standard and believed to be okay like…40 years or so ago has been overhauled time and time again, people just kling to these outdated husbandry standards because they are cheap.
that being said: I thiiink the snakes being shown here are most likely put together for breeding, and the small ones in the super barren clear ones seem to be set up for an expo?, so just really short term (hopefully). still. just dont cram these gentle noodles into way to small plastic drawers….
I dont know how many different ways i can say this so people grasp the issue:
THESE ANIMALS ARE KEPT LIKE THIS PERMANENTLY. THESE ARE THEIR HOMES. THEY ARE NOT TEMPORARY.
Arguing that this isnt an issue and is fake is NOT HELPING THE ANIMALS AND SHOWING YOUR IGNORANCE. STOP ARGUING AND TAKING AWAY FROM THE POINT. YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
WMSS has already stated what needs to be said and is super knowledgeable, but I thought I’d add some back up! Hello I am an exotics vet planning on getting boarded in herp medicine and I can confirm that ball pythons are frequently kept in set ups like this! Tubs can be used as a good quarantine or hospital set up but that is not what is being shown here. I very frequently have owners bring me ball pythons that they keep in barren tubs with a single hide, heat mat, substrate, and a water dish. That is common. It may seem unbelievable to people that have one or two snakes, but this is how (most) breeders keep their bps. I was going to link some videos/care guides for proof, but I don’t want to give traffic to people who keep their animals this way. So instead, I recommend checking out the video/podcast from Animals At Home where a rack keeper and a viv keeper debate (peacefully) why they keep their animals the way they do. It basically comes down to as a breeder, it is more profitable and more manageable to keep these animals in a rack system. Large, enriched set ups with full spectrum lighting are expensive, and breeders who breed to make a profit would lose too much money if they kept all their animals that way.
But here’s the thing. Ethical breeding is not profitable in ANY species. Raising animals ethically is extremely expensive. Whether we’re talking about dogs or reptiles, you’ve got veterinary care for the parents, potentially health testing (the discussion if breeders should be screening for things like nido is a conversation for another time), set ups, food, utilities, etc. Not to mention unintended expenses. What if the animal becomes egg bound? What if there’s a disease outbreak? What about vet care for the offspring? Plus, good breeders are prepared to house all the animals they produce indefinitely in the event that they can’t find them a home. And not just housing them so they’re alive, but housing them appropriately. If you want to keep 100+ snakes and mass produce them to make a profit, a rack system is the most efficient and affordable way to do that. You save time with cleaning and enclosure maintenance. You save money with lighting (yes, SOME rack keepers provide UV/overhead lighting…but most of these big breeders don’t). You save space by being able to just put a large number of animals onto one wall of your room. I have a massive shelving unit in my living room that houses 5 reptiles. Each shelf is 6′ long. The shelving unit takes up an entire wall, and is full. With 5 enclosures and supplies.
This is a rack advertised for ball pythons. I could fit about 3 of these in the space where I have my current set up. So I could house 66 ball pythons in the space where I currently have 5 enriched enclosures (of various species, only 1 is a bp). These are about $450 per unit. So for under $1500 (which I definitely at least put into all of these enclosures), I could have more than 10x the number of animals I currently have, and spend significantly less money and time per animal. If you’re a mill-type breeder looking to make a profit, that’s extremely appealing.
And if you are one of those kinds of breeders, you don’t want people to think what you’re doing is unethical. So you say that ball pythons don’t climb. They spend all their time underground. They’re very skittish. They might even break themselves if they climb. And your animals are eating, shedding, and breeding, so obviously they’re fine anyway, right? So you keep pushing this narrative so people don’t question why breeders have to do it this way. It’s not efficient or profitable to do it any other way. And then they say they’ve been breeding ball pythons for X number of years so they know better.
And we all just…accept that minimalistic keepers/breeders are basically admitting that they know that there’s a difference between keeping a ball python or two as a pet and keeping a large number as breeders. And it’s ok for breeders to do this because…they need to make a profit? It’s too much work to care for a large number of reptiles ethically? This is literally no different than a puppy mill. We know those are bad, but reptiles don’t get the same kind of understanding or sympathy from the public so we just brush it off and say it’s fine because they’re not pets, they’re breeding animals.
And then the people breeding tell us it’s ok for us to keep our ball pythons that way too! And even if they say all ball python needs X amount of space and X amount of hides, then why aren’t they keeping their animals that way? If they say a ball python needs a particular set up in our care to thrive, why are they exempt from their own advice?
So yes, in a lot of keeper groups that focus on a small number of pets, people may not be pushing rack keeping anymore. But the fact is, the majority of the ball pythons in the pet trade come from situations where they were bred and raised in these conditions. Their parents live in these conditions for their whole life. THIS IS COMMON. This is where these animals are coming from. So even if there is a push from casual keepers not to use racks (and I desperately hope there is), when comes down to numbers, most ball pythons are still kept like this.
Sorry WMSS for hijacking your post, this is just something that gets me a little fired up.
i have a genuine question. i see all these vids and pics over the internet of people breeding snakes for their patterns and colors and while they make look pretty, is it healthy for the snake? like i've heard of spider morph ball pythons having a wobble, but is breeding snakes for this purpose ethical?
This is a great question for @wheremyscalesslither and snakeblr in general! Snake keeping as a hobby and the breeding that goes on in it is not something I have a lot of experience with.
I will say that with almost any species, there is a whole spectrum from ethical to unethical breeding for specific appearances. Ethical breeders prioritize the health and temperament of their animals, while unethical breeders often prioritize only the resulting appearance of their animals.
Bryan Barczyk on YouTube is a snake breeder and educator. I’ve been binging his videos for the past few days and, while I don’t know hardly anything about snakes, I believe this man to be an excellent provider for his animals. (You should check out the habitat he built for his 20 foot snake, Lucy.)
I was watching one of his videos today on Leopard Gecko morphs and he made a point of talking about a particular morph that tends to have a higher chance of developing neurological problems. He also said that he has very little intention of breeding for that particular morph.
All that being said, check out his channel (linked above). I’m sure he’s got a video talking about morphs in one species of snake or another.
The only morph in snakes that I know of that I find to be kinda sketchy is the scaleless in, I think, either corn or rat snakes. (I’ve watched A LOT of snake videos in the past 48 hours and it’s hard to keep track 😅) In captivity, they seem to be fine. They have belly scales, so their tummies don’t get rubbed raw or anything, but they might have a trickier time with shedding and stuff.
I’m sure if you Google “bad morphs in snakes,” you can come up with something.
Hey @bac0nluver69 and the person I’m reblogging this from! I wanted to let you both know that while Brian Barczyk might seem like a cool dude, there are actually a lot of problems with his systems and he is not even close to a reliable source of information. @wheremyscalesslither , like why-animals-do-the-thing said, is a seasoned, informed snake keeper who is more than likely happy to explain why and more to you in morphs, or at the very least lead you in the right direction.
Brian Barczyk is fully and completely a terrible person with horrible morals and HORRIFIC animal care. He is undoubtedly a person that should have been cast out of animal care decades ago, but instead hes set this ugly precedence of keeping all reptiles in shoe box sized enclosures. He also perpetuates dangerous myths, like ball pythons living in termite mounds. This kind of verbiage allows people to feel good about keeping animals in small spaces with just paper towels for substrate, and water. No enrichment to allow for natural behaviors, hell, not even enough toom to stretch out because “they live in termite mounds and dont need space.” This type of keeping has also spread to his larger snakes as well.
Reticulated pythons, some showed here, are semi arboreal, intelligent creatures. They should not be kept in drawers.
This style of keeping is also dangerous because it prevents healthy brain growth and promotes obesity which can have lasting health impacts.
Aside from the myths, he cohabitates animals that are solitary. He keeps them in unclean conditions:
He home treats his animals with caustic veterinary disinfectant when they become ill, and has taught others to do this. You really should be receiving a culture and antibiotics from your vet, not blasting every breath of air they take with an antiseptic.
He recently discovered scaleless ball pythons along with another breeder. Here is how BHB took care of their scaleless ball python:
Not how dehydrated the skin is, and how thin the animal is as well. Other keepers scaleless animals are flawless. To add to the shadiness, BHB started selling scaleless head animals, which make fully scaleless animals, without making sure the animals would survive. This animal hasnt been spoken of since 2015. The single female he had died, and BHB has become strangely silent about the first scaleless suriving ball python. He is assumed dead.
There are a number of other really awfuk thibgs he does- provoking animals to bite as pranks to scare people, stressing geckos out to run accross a fake field for foot ball season- complete with people telling at them and poking at them to move faster: https://youtu.be/1mQXviNWFK4
But most of all, lets not forget his entirely fake apology that tried to gain pity votes from telling people he was going to kill himself. As someone who suffers with depression and specifically suicide, i was entriely in disbelief when he used that to manipulate people into coming back to his stable. Its disgusting behavior. https://youtu.be/o1p7NdtFOrk
I could continue to go on, but quite frankly have more important work to do UNDOING ALL THE BULLSHIT HE STARTED.
Boosting this because it’s really important people know not to share his media or emulate his animal keeping.
What about Snake Discovery? I’ve been watching their videos mostly as a way to scratch a herp keeping itch that will never be fulfilled.
They have an alligator, but they go indepth about their care and are against keeping them too. They also have a rack system, but the racks are far larger than the ones in the pictures above. Idk. Thoughts? @wheremyscalesslither
Theyre just a flashier and cleaner version ofBHB from what little ive watched. They still keep their animals in small empty tubs without enrichment. (one plant and a hide does not enrichment make)
I found nothing outstanding about their information or care. Just another typical rack breeder not providing for their animals correctly.
The worst part is they are more colubrid heavy in their animal collection. Colubrids are notably more active and require more room to perform natural behaviors than what they are being provided with.
You can see here theyve actually split tub space in half for the hognoses, so while the length is the same as the snake, the floorspace of the tub has been woefully decreased.
To emphasize- here are screens of them keeping large, active snakes without appropriate enrichment in tubs that are obviously too small for such active species
The sizes and designs of these tubs also do nothing to promote natural behaviors. Remember- the aim of enrichment is to provide for a variety of behaviors for the animal to perform. So take a look at these tubs- what behaviors can they access? Burrowing and hiding. There is no space for climbing which is essential with colubrid species, especially to stace off excess fat and build musculature. No room for exploring or hunting.
Furthermore, a theme of their vlog is “smaller spaces get snakes to eat” this is a MYTH. It is never about the size of the enclosure. It is all about husbandry. Specifically the video about getting a ball python to eat- do ball pythons crawl out of their burrow into the whole continent of Africa and die from stress because its “too big”? Heavens no. But its comedic to think about. Using smaller enclosures to get a snake to eat is a cop out. Instead what you are doing by placing them in a small container is decreasing the heat gradient so they are forced into warmer conditions which forces their metabolism to speed upn thusly making them hungry. It does not actually address the issue at hand of caring for the snake properly, youre just making it so they require more energy.
I do have to give huge props to the woman though. She is very easy to understand and her voice doesnt grate my nerves like brian barczyk.
If BHB is a 0/10 Snake discovery is a 5/10.
Not impressed, very disappointed.
I took these pics in 2017, and to this day kills me that I didn’t get better photos of this. Posed better, lighted better, the bones on a white background presented meaningfully, with better detail of the evidence of months of repeated rib and spine breaks. I never sent in any samples for futher analysis. I didn’t give this animal the care, effort and respect he deserved. Looking at this case now, it’s possible that he had other bone disorders such as Osteomyelitis. Have you guys seen this before? Spinal problems are common in snakes, but the large swaths of bone over the ribs is not something Ive seen very often.
You’re my best buddy
texture
A match made in heaven
This is extremely dangerous! Reptiles and cats should never be allowed to touch. Reptiles are highly susceptible to the bacteria in cats’ saliva, and the iguana’s body language shows that it is super uncomfortable with the situation. The way it’s squinting its eyes shut and freezing up like this demonstrates that it’s in a good deal of distress and doesn’t feel like it can escape. When reptiles are upset and not in a situation they feel able to flee from or fight their way out of, they freeze and do what they can to block out the stimulus- in this case, the cat being all up its space. This isn’t cute or funny or a match made in heaven- this is putting animals in an unsafe situation for attention on the internet. Shame on the owner for letting this happen.
Sorry for the complete lack of cringe. By some divine mercy nobody is selling reptiles on CL rn and I don't feel like farming cringe from elsewhere
If you would like to submit your own farm fresh Reptile Cringe™️ feel free to DM/submit/tag me in something.
Until then I'll reblog educational posts as I see them.
Ilu be good 🦎
How do I know if that reptile TikTok is bad?
Or youtube video, or instagram post, etc.
Look: I get it. You see the cute lizard video, you watch the cute lizard video. But is the lizard video really cute?
Well, that can be hard to tell.
Like, really, really hard to tell. Not every animal situation on the internet is cut-and-dry, good or bad. Most of them, you don’t have the full context! You can’t tell how the person’s husbandry is, what the enclosure is like, or how they keep up with daily care.
Well, maybe this guide can help a little bit. This is meant to be used as a quick reference when evaluating short internet content. It’s not super useful for dedicated pettubers, because for those, you usually have a person explaining their entire ethos and showing you things like husbandry and care. Full breakdowns and evaluations for those are a lot more complicated.
What this guide is for is for when your mom sends you a viral video of a lizard and you have to explain to her that you’d really, really like her to stop sending you videos of animal abuse, or when you see someone doing something really dangerous with an alligator. I know this is a long post, but there’s a lot of things to watch out for!
Source: Is it from Jay Brewer (prehistoricpets/reptilezoo) or Brian Barcyzk (snakebytetv)? It’s bad. Stop giving them your attention/ad clicks. It just tells them that nobody cares about how miserable their animals are.
I know that’s flippant, but seriously, look at the source of your content. If it’s a facility that’s known for animal mistreatment, then don’t watch their stuff. Easy as that! Don’t feed into the content machine- don’t tell the algorithm that their content is what you want to see. Even if the individual post is ok and doesn’t show any animal mistreatment, people like Jay and Brian are known for their poor husbandry practices overall. This is the kind of enclosure Brian thinks it’s ok for a giant snake to spend its entire life in.
Seriously, don’t give that man any more attention. Lots of breeders use racks, but this is at the low end of bad for racks. If you see content from someone who’s got a history of bad care, don’t watch it!
Oh, and how do you find out if they have a history of bad care? Google “Name here+bad care” and see what comes up. If it’s a one off thing where like, one animal is in crappy condition? Might be fine, they might have course-corrected. If it’s pages and pages of stuff? Red flags all around.
Venom: Is somebody taking a selfie with a venomous snake? It’s bad.
They’re putting themselves in danger for social media attention. Even if it’s a choice they made and they say they’re not hurting anybody else, they are. By putting themselves at risk unnecessarily, they put other people at risk. If they get bitten, the dose of antivenin that they receive is probably from a zoo, where actual educators put themselves at risk for conservation. Antivenin is expensive, and in many cases, you can’t even get it. For instance, in the US, there’s only one antivenin commercially available to hospitals for treating venomous snakebites. It’s called CroFeb, and according to The Washington Post, the price for one hospital vial is about $2,300. A typical treatment dose? That requires four to six vials. So for a single, smaller rattlesnake bite that would need four vials of antivenin, the cost is $9,200.
And that’s if you’re lucky enough to get bitten by a rattler and to be in range of a hospital that has the antivenin. If you get bit by say, a cobra? That antivenin is coming from a zoo or research facility, and if there’s not one nearby that can help you, you are SOL. And quite possibly DOA.
Don’t take selfies with venomous snakes. Just don’t do it. Don’t support social media personalities who do it.
However… if the person is using snake hooks, using the proper grip on the snake if they are holding it, and taking proper precautions by having somebody else to spot and film… then it might be fine! There’s lots of good reasons to handle venomous snakes, believe it or not. One of my favorite reptile facilities that posts venomous animals is the Kentucky Reptile Zoo. KRZ is one of the most important venom facilities in the US- they keep all kinds of species and milk them for their venom, which not only goes to make antivenom but also is used for things like cancer research. You can bet when they post pictures of someone handling a venomous snake, that person is well-trained and is handling that animal for a purpose.
Egg cutting: It’s probably bad.
This is the practice of cutting open snake eggs before it’s time to hatch. Sometimes keepers need to do this because a baby is struggling, and that’s ok! Sometimes keepers do this to show off the patterns, and that’s really not ok! It can cause severe damage to the hatchlings. Furthermore, it’s not like it’s a surprise. Breeders who cut eggs already know have a really good idea of what’s going to be inside because they’re breeding for color morphs- they know the genetics they put together. They’re just doing it for attention, and not thinking of what’s best for the animal. It’s like an unboxing video that can lead to dead baby snakes. Not cool.
Inappropriate feeding: If somebody is giving their lizard a hot dog, it’s bad.
Animals need to eat, but what are they being fed? Is it a diet item appropriate for the species? Even if it’s appropriate, how much is being fed? Is the animal being fed according to an appropriate schedule? This varies so much from individual to individual, but in general, appropriate food includes whole prey (and if it’s being videoed, it should always be pre-killed!), most fruits and veggies, and things like small pieces of fish and chicken for monitors/tegus. Here are some things that are never acceptable: processed meat, like chicken nuggets, hamburgers, and hot dogs. Pizza. Candy. Bread. Ice cream. (I have seen social media of all of these. Some from “professional” reptile keepers.)
Live feeding: Reputable facilities and responsible owners aren’t going to film their reptile killing a live rodent and put it on TikTok for your entertainment.
While some keepers do need to feed live, responsible owners know that live feedings must be supervised and given their full attention because rodents can fight back. If they’re filming, they aren’t taking good safety measures. Insects are generally fine, though, so long as it’s a standard feeder. Crickets, roaches, mealworms, superworms, hornworms… stuff like that isn’t going to hurt the animal eating it. If you see somebody trying to feed their gecko a bee or something? That’s bad content.
Obese animals: A chonky reptile is a reptile that’s probably dying a slow, painful death from fatty liver disease.
This can be really difficult to assess, because most people don’t know what a healthy reptile actually looks like… and because the norm for pet reptiles on social media is obesity. Generally, the best thing to do is look for pictures of those animals in the wild and compare. Wild animals are often a lot skinnier than their captive counterparts, but you’ll get the gist pretty quickly of what the animal is supposed to look like. No species of reptile naturally has fat rolls (although big skin wrinkles aren’t uncommon, and some animals have heavier bodies than you might expect).
Examples of obese reptiles on social media include:
Margo the bearded dragon
Macguyver the tegu
Pretty much everything Jay Brewer/Prehistoric Pets/The Reptile Zoo owns
Cats, dogs, and other pets: There is no safe way for a cat and a reptile to interact. Period.
If there’s a cat in the video and the cat is touching a reptile, it ain’t safe. I have written extensively about this but the gist of it is that cats harbor bacteria that is super toxic to reptiles, and even the most gentle pat can turn into a scratch that gets infected and is extremely hard to treat. It stresses the reptile out and in some cases can be super dangerous for the cat, too, if the reptile fights back.
However… if the reptile interaction is with another animal of the same species and they’re just kinda chilling in the same space, that’s fine. Some animals actually do better living in social situations, like alligators, rattlesnakes, garter snakes, mourning geckos, and dart frogs! Some animals do just fine hanging out with other animals like them- if you see a video with a bunch of bearded dragons in it and they’re not all sharing the same cage and they’re just chilling, that’s probably fine!
Intentionally aggravating the animal: Being a jerk is bad.
Yeah, I know, the video of that Budgett’s frog going REEEEEEEEE sounds hilarious, but that animal’s in a lot of distress! Don’t poke animals with sticks to get them to make noise! That’s mean! If the animal is flinching away from a stimulus, or squinching its eyes shut really tight, those are both signs that something’s wrong here. Reptile body language can be really hard to read, so you might need to google around or ask someone.
Holding an amphibian: Usually bad.
Not a reptile issue, really, but worth addressing because reptiles and amphibians get lumped in together. Amphibians have porous skin and are vulnerable to the oils we have on our hands. Chemical exposures can kill them. If somebody’s holding a frog for more than a brief moment, that’s not good for it. There are valid reasons to hold an amphibian- sometimes you have to move them! But generally videos of people holding amphibians aren’t great and you should always be critical and ask what the point of the contact is.
Handling crocodilians without banding their mouths: If the public can access the animal, always bad. If it’s in a private setting, not always bad but can be bad.
If someone is holding an alligator or crocodilian of any kind and its mouth isn’t banded, there is a big problem. It doesn’t hurt them to have their mouths banded. Usually it’s done with hair ties or electrical tape, which peels off very easily and doesn’t bother them at all. Any crocodilian with public access needs to be banded. If it’s out of the enclosure, a band goes on the mouth. There’s no excuse. Even the little ones have razor sharp teeth and remarkably strong jaw-closing muscles. Now, if you’re working privately and you’re feeding, then obviously you won’t band- but if the person in the video isn’t being careful and is working within six feet of an unbanded adult crocodilian’s mouth, that’s irresponsible.
Alligators in particular make wonderful ambassadors. They’re charismatic, they’re adorable as babies, and they really can get quite used to being held and worked with. But an unbanded alligator that the public can access is a public safety hazard. Also, if you’re in the US, it’s illegal in most states. It doesn’t matter if you’re an educator or whatever, band your crocodilian’s mouths before taking them outside.
Blowing smoke or vaping in a reptile’s face: This is animal abuse.
We get it. You vape. But reptiles have really primitive lungs- in fact, snakes only have one functional lung. Reptiles have really bad reactions to nicotine, THC, essential oil diffusion, smoke, and pretty much anything else that lets off a lot of VOCs. It’s not funny, it’s not cute, and it’s always bad when somebody is smoking or vaping around a reptile.
Now like I said: you can’t learn everything from a single TikTok, youtube video, or instagram post! These are just some of the big red flags to watch out for. There’s lots of good reptile content out there that’s totally fine and safe and good- you just have to know how to spot the bad stuff! Thanks for reading!