Sansa's wig

Sansa Stark defense squad, Jonsa shipper & wigs enthusiast. I like to laugh about stuff ;)

[kitten1618x]

Scale of Dragon, Tooth of Wolf: ASOIAF and the Wars of the Roses

The hardest thing about writing this meta was literally, where to begin? I will apologize in advance, as I will try to keep my thoughts as tidy and streamlined as possible, but I have a lot to cover and do tend to run away with my words at times. This is a collaborative meta of sorts, as I drew insight, inspiration and help in constructing this massive baby from the wonderful @thewesterwoman (who also contributed parts of it, as noted within).

So, I suppose we’ll start where I begun. A few weeks ago, I stumbled onto this meta about Jamie Lannister and how he may actually be TPTWP. Now, before you shrug that off, I suggest you read this:

https://thewesterwoman.tumblr.com/post/163650220053/azor-ahai-and-the-matter-of-jaime-irony-and

And while you’re at it, make sure you give @thewesterwoman a follow because her brilliant analytical mind is a blessing to this fandom. Yes, she even ships Jonsa (but less flailing and more logic). 😉

After reading her meta,  I was definitely intrigued, so I began some research of my own, and this theory is actually a lot more popular (especially with book readers) than you may think. It prompted me to send her this ask:

https://thewesterwoman.tumblr.com/post/163779372473/so-if-you-think-that-jamie-may-be-the-one-who

Her answer only served to intrigue me more, and we struck up a private convo discussing all the War of the Roses similarities, and how GoT might actually come to its bittersweet end -and so this meta was born. It will be part tinfoil/part actual history. Let’s begin.

What’s in a Name?

So with that said, let us first focus on the last three major houses left in GoT: the Lannisters, the Starks and the Targaryens -and the three* major players of the War of the Roses: the Lancasters, the Yorks and the Tudors. Marinate on that a minute. Okay? Good. Here’s what you should have came up with:

Lancasters/Lannisters

Yorks/Starks

Tudor (Plantagenet)/Targaryen *

*History shows us that the War of the Roses actual main players were the Lancasters and Yorks, but for all of you who are not historian buffs (me), they both descended from the same royal house: Plantagenet and ended with Tudor. Think of them as Alpha and Omega.* Oh, and wouldn’t you know -what an incestuous web they wove, but that’s a meta for another day. 😂

As per Wikipedia (and because I’m lazy):

The House of Plantagenet (/plænˈtædʒᵻnᵻt/) was a royal house which originated from the lands of Anjou in France. The name Plantagenet is used by modern historians to identify four distinct royal houses – the Angevins who were also Counts of Anjou, the main body of the Plantagenets following the loss of Anjou, and the houses of Lancaster and York, the Plantagenets’ two cadet branches. The family held the English throne from 1154, with the accession of Henry II, until 1485, when Richard III died.

One other thought ( @thewesterwoman adds )- as many have noted, Westeros is obviously a continent-sized, fantasy-version of Britain (with the North more or less standing in for Scotland). Westerosi history is similarly based on British history, which saw several waves of migration from foreign invaders that greatly resembles the Westerosi invasions by the First Men, the Andals, and finally the Targaryens.

The Targaryens in particular seem to represent the Norman invasion of England, which was led by William the Conqueror, who I take for a direct analogue to Westeros’s own Aegon the Conqueror (a foreign invader who united several warring kingdoms into one country under his reign). This is relevant to our theory because the royal English House of Plantagenet (and thus the House of Tudor as well) is more or less directly descended from the dynasty founded by William the Conqueror, just as the Targaryens are from Aegon the Conqueror.

Amidst the War a King is Born

As you all know, the War of Roses was put to an end by Henry Tudor, or King Henry VII -also known as the first King of the Tudor line. I’m not going to dive fully into his entire biography -just the parts/similarities that fit in the GoT narrative.

The War of the Roses broke out prior to his birth on May 22, 1455 and Henry was born on January 28, 1457 -the son of Lady Margaret Beaufort, and Edmund Tudor, first Earl of Richmond (half brother to King Henry VI). Edmund, a Lancastrian, was taken prisoner by Yorkist forces mere months after his marriage to Margaret, and died in captivity less than a year later, leaving behind a 13-year-old widow who was seven months pregnant with their child -whom she birthed at the tender age of 14.

This sounds vaguely familiar -like a lovable bastard prince we know, who’s mother birthed him at a tender age, his father dying in a “rebellion” of sorts -War of the Roses/Roberts Rebellion. But wait -the similarities don’t end there. While Margaret didn’t die like Lyanna -Henry would be her only child. The birth was described as “particularly difficult; at one point, both the Countess and her child were close to death, due to her young age and small size”. She never gave birth again. After his father’s death, Margaret and Henry were taken in by Edmunds brother Jasper (Henry’s uncle), the Duke of Pembroke.

Now here’s where it gets tricky … because I’m about to split Henry’s upbringing into two parts, or rather -two characters: Jon Snow and Danaerys Targaryen.

Jon Snow:

When Edward IV became the first Yorkist King in 1461, Jasper fled abroad and Castle Pembroke, along with the Earldom were given over to the Yorkist, William Herbert -who then took over guardianship of the 4 year old Henry and his mother. Henry lived in the Herbert household until 1469 (he was 12) when more York/Lancaster drama ensued and Henry VI reclaimed his throne.

Daenerys Targaryen:

At some point, fearing her son’s safety, Margaret sent Henry into exile with his uncle Jasper -where he remained, garnering French and Welsh support before returning to lay a claim to the throne. When Henry Tudor invaded England, his army consisted of French mercenaries and Welsh warriors – which would be considered a largely foreign group (foreign invaders -Dothraki and the Unsullied).

So, you see how in comparison to Henry’s early life, we could easily divide aspects of it between both Jon and Dany. Being raised by an uncle, being exiled for safety, garnering foreign support and returning to claim their “birthright”.  It’s also important to note that with his father dying prior to his birth, Henry fought claims of illegitimacy (bastard) for most of his life.

A Dragon and a Prophecy

Henry also made some political capital out of his Welsh ancestry, attracting military support and safeguarding his army’s passage through Wales on his way to the Battle of Bosworth. He came from an old, established Anglesey family that claimed descent from Cadwaladr (a Welsh King depicted in legend, the last ancient British king), and on occasion Henry displayed that Welsh standard.

That Welsh standard Henry fought and conquered under? Well I’m glad you asked … The flag of Wales (Welsh: Baner Cymru or Y Ddraig Goch, meaning the red dragon) .

A red dragon! You don’t say? Where have we seen that before? Oh, right …the Targaryen house sigil.

But Henry’s welsh dragon isn’t just ANY dragon, but -a dragon that’s attached to a prophecy: Y Mab Darogan.

From Wikipedia (again because I’m lazy):

Y Mab Darogan (pronounced [ə mɑːb darɔˈɡan] meaning “The Destined/Prophesised Son” or “Son of Destiny”) is a messianic figure of Welsh legend, destined to force the English out of Britain and reclaim it for its Celtic inhabitants. A number of figures have been called Y Mab Darogan in history (other titles include Y Gŵr Darogan and Y Daroganwr). An extensive corpus of medieval Welsh prophetic verse, beginning with Armes Prydain (10th century?), is centred on the figure of Y Mab Darogan.

A prince who was promised? Ya don’t say?!?!

Several historical figures have thought to have been this “Son of Destiny” -even King Arthur of Camelot. With poets and supporters labeling Henry the prophesied prince, it certainly didn’t hurt in strengthening his claim to the throne. Later, his reign over England was believed to be the prophecy fulfilled -a belief that he encouraged by naming his firstborn son Arthur.

Two Roses become One

As most of you know, Henry later wed Elizabeth of York. They were third cousins -both great-great grandchildren of John of Gaunt. The marriage unified the two warring houses and gave any of their future children strong claims to the throne. The unification of the houses of York and Lancaster by this marriage is symbolised by the Tudor Rose -a combination of the white rose of York and the red rose of Lancaster.

*Remember this, because we’ll come back to this later when I make my endgame predictions.

I would also like to present to you, the Tudor house Coat of Arms (under Henry VII and the first half of his son, Henry VIII’s reign):

A red dragon, a white dog (wolf) and a golden lion sitting atop the crest, amid the Tudor roses.

As Alice (in Wonderland) would say: Curiouser and curiouser ….  

The White Rose (of Winterfell?)

A red-headed beauty -Elizabeth of York was described as fair of hair and face. The eldest child, she had two younger brothers (known as the Princes in the Tower) who disappeared shortly after her father’s death -thought to be murdered by her uncle.

From Wikipedia (and you guessed it, because I’m lazy):

“The Princes in the Tower” is an expression frequently used to refer to Edward V, King of England and Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York. The two brothers were the only sons of Edward IV of England and Elizabeth Woodville surviving at the time of their father’s death in 1483. When they were 12 and 9 years old, respectively, they were lodged in the Tower of London by the man appointed to look after them, their uncle, the Lord Protector: Richard, Duke of Gloucester. This was supposedly in preparation for Edward’s forthcoming coronation as king. However, Richard took the throne for himself and the boys disappeared.

Compare this if you’d like, to Sansa’s brothers  Bran and Rickon “disappearing” -first thought to be murdered by Theon, then Rickon actually being murdered, and Bran essentially dying as well, now that he’s the 3 eyed Raven. This may be a bit tin foilish, but Bran was also pushed from a Tower -which sent the whole chain of events in motion.

Despite being a political arrangement at first, the marriage between Henry and Elizabeth proved successful and both partners appear to have grown to love each other. Jon and Sansa have already proven to share a powerful loving bond rooted in trust.

But wait!

Aren’t the Starks (Yorks) supposed to be the good guys, and the Lannisters (Lancasters) the bad? I’m glad you asked, and I’ll hand you over to @thewesterwoman for that …

When it comes to the Wars of the Roses, one side - the Lancasters - has traditionally been presented in a far more positive light than the other - the Yorks. This is because the Tudor dynasty which ultimately emerged the victor of the war was descended in the male line from the Lancasters, making them the ‘winning’ side. As such, the vast majority of primary sources from after the war paint the Lancasters in a flattering light and the Yorks in a negative one, in an effort on the part of their writers to gain favor with the current reigning monarchs of England.

Today, this is especially noticeable in Shakespeare’s ‘history plays,’ several of which - Henry IV Part One, Henry IV Part Two, Henry IV Part Three, and Richard III - deal directly with the historical events of the Wars of the Roses. Shakespeare was writing during the reign of Elizabeth Tudor, and had an obvious motive for depicting her forebears as the heroes of the story that ultimately led to her rule. This is especially notable in Richard III, where the evil schemes of Richard of York lead England into chaos until the heroic Henry Tudor (a Lancastrian, and Elizabeth’s direct ancestor) finally emerges to defeat him and save the realm.

GRRM seems to have taken his fictional noble houses Stark and Lannister from the real-world Yorks and Lancasters, and they retain vestiges of the stereotypes of their historical counterparts. House Stark is strongly associated with tradtionally ‘evil’ motifs: ice, winter, death, and wolves (connoting the Big Bad Wolf of many fairytales). House Lannister, in contrast, has many ‘heroic’ connotations: warmth, sunlight, gold, and lions (which incidentally are on the royal coat of arms of England). From a distance, the Lannisters - with their wealth, beauty, and natural charisma - would seem like a natural fit for the protagonists of any story, while the Starks - known for their grim and gloomy dispositions and ominous House words - would seem like more natural antagonists.

But this is of course not the case. GRRM has both reversed the traditional historical narrative of the good Lancasters versus the evil Yorks, and the traditional motifs that we associate with good versus bad characters. In ASOIAF, the Starks are the heroes and the Lannisters are the villains, despite their respective surface appearances. This is both very interesting and very typical of GRRM, who loves to invert our expectations of fantasy narratives.

And now it’s time to put your tin foil hats on, because it’s endgame prediction time ….

So what does this all mean?

So if Jon and Dany are actually the two facets of Henry’s life prior to the crown -the exiled conqueror (Dany) and the “bastard” prince (Jon) raised by a Yorkist (Stark) -also his uncle, where does that leave Dany? Well, I’m pretty sure Dany will meet her death on the other side of the wall.  

Let us return to Dany’s time spent in the House of the Undying -to simplify, we’ll use the show version. We’ll come back to her time in the throne room later, but first -remember when she stepped through what looked curiously like the gates to the other side of the wall -into the wintery beyond?

Here, she was reunited with her true love and husband, Khal Drogo and their son, Rhaego.

Here, she was reunited with her true love and husband, Khal Drogo and their son, Rhaego.

Perhaps this was a foreshadowing of sorts, that she will die in battle beyond the wall during the Long Night, and in death, be reunited with her son and husband -who wait for her in some form of purgatory, so they can all ride together into the Night Lands?

Drawing from the Henry Dany/Jon parallels, and if you’d like to get real tinfoil-y, we could look at Targcest as a way of melding these two halves of Henry into one. Maybe Dany perishes before the showdown with Cersei -leaving that war for Jon to be the parallel to Henry’s Battle of Bosworth -the battle that won him the crown by conquest -as to which he strengthened by then marrying Elizabeth of York.

*I’d like to make that very clear. He didn’t use his new wife to seal the deal, he used conquest (in defeating his rival) -he strengthened his throne (and future line of succession) in marrying EoY.

Returning back to Dany’s visions in The House of the Undying, she enters the throne room and it looks destroyed -although the throne still remains intact. Some people think it was ash falling through the broken ceiling -others snow. I’m going with the latter. Here’s why:

Dany approaches the throne, but does not touch it -instead she walks out the door which led her to the other side of the wall (to her family). She’s come to Westeros, but she will never be the queen. Instead, Jon will be the reluctant King -again thrust into a position of leadership that he doesn’t necessarily want, but will accept for the good of all. He will not be a King who conquered, but instead a King that was chosen.

Since Jon is both a Stark and a Targaryen, but his Targaryen lineage is what gives him a right to the Iron Throne -ironically, a Targaryen will once again rule Westeros. With Dany’s death, so dies the old House Targaryen that she represents, with Jon being the start of a new (and as @thewesterwoman points out -less incestuous) dynasty. This would again mirror the fate of House Plantagenet.

But will he rule as a Targaryen? Or a Stark? Maybe neither?

Perhaps he will rule as a Snow -which considering the connotations, and how being a bastard plagued him his entire life, it would certainly be rather poetic. The Snow falling in the throne room could be a foreshadowing of this. The Targaryen structure is destroyed, but the throne that Targaryen and Lannisters have sat on, is intact.

And remember this? The blending of the Lancaster and York roses into the Tudor rose?

This also leads me to believe that Jon might start a new house entirely, and create his own house sigil -combining the Targaryen and Starks somehow, but allowing BOTH original houses to die off -much like both the Lancasters and Yorks, with no male heirs left to carry on the names. In the books, snow is a big theme in a lot of Sansa’s arc -especially the time she spends as Alayne in the Vale. Many have already drawn these parallels to Jon.

There Must Always be a Stark in Winterfell

(Inspired by the ask I sent thewesterwoman)

Bran has made it pretty clear that he is NOT the Lord of Winterfell. Bran technically isn’t even Bran anymore. *Think of Elizabeth of Yorks two brothers (the princes in the tower). If Arya marries, she will take her husband’s name -same with Sansa. So, if Jon doesn’t take the Stark name, the Stark name perishes, too.

Consider if you will, that Winterfell falls in the Long Night. It was built by Brandon Stark (aka: Bran the builder), one of the “First Men”, as well as the founder of House Stark. He also is said to have built the Wall -“raised it with the aid of Giants”, according to legend. Ironically, the Night King is known to be one of the First Men, too. Supposedly, Bran Stark is in the Winterfell crypts, although some have speculated that he’s actually the NK.

What if there’s something “magical” behind Winterfell and it’s crypts? When Bran asked undead Benjen to come with them to the other side of the wall, he said he couldn’t, as there was magic carved into the foundation of the Wall, and as long as it stood, he could not pass. Maybe there’s something magical connected to Winterfell and the phrase “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell” and, that it’s all somehow connected to the Night King.

If the Night King is defeated once and for all, and Winterfell falls, there’s no longer a “need” for a Stark to be there -giving credence to the theory of Jon starting a new house entirely.

With the Starks being the “good guys” and the story mostly framed around them, Jon and Sansa as Ned/Cat 2.0 yet, the end of House Stark sounds pretty bittersweet to me.

Of course, this is all just speculation …

War of the Roses was only one of many things that GRRM drew inspiration from.

*credit to @sardoniyx for this AMAZING manip work!*

[kitten1618x]

Gratuitous reblog for the new crowd. ❤️

[jonsalways]

You can’t be serious about it.

[ninabelcher]

What kind of writing is this? Jon Snow would NEVER turn his back on his family, his house, or his people. By giving Dany the North, he is dishonoring Robb’s death, as well as dishonoring House Mormont and the wildlings that helped him reclaim Winterfell. And above all…he is breaking his promises to Sansa, who has done everything in her power to hold the north, keep everyone well fed, warm, and content while he’s off staring longingly at Daenerys. They will all turn on Jon and NEVER respect him again if word reaches them that Jon has surrendered the North. Sansa, along with Arya and Bran, will probably never forgive him. 

I don’t understand why it’s so important for Dany to have the north. The north would do just fine independently, she wouldn’t have to worry about war or enemy attacks because she seems to trust Jon and his judgement now. Why can’t she just entrust the north to a man she finds honorable?? She will never be able to control the north or gain the amount of respect from northerners that the Stark family has.

[sansaswig-blog]

Totally Agree with this, it was a HUGE disappointment when Jon did it, and it really felt out of character for him. I don’t like what they are doing in this season with Jon, he is starting to look like Dany’s lap dog and this is not the hero that wanted to save the North by facing the Night King and his army. I’m glad you posted this. This season has got the worst writing and it makes it nonsensical and awful.

[lookingatyousideways]

I warned Jon this would happen. He couldn’t leave the North and just expect it to sit and wait for him like Ghost.

Sansa Stark

For those of you asking what Sansa said about Ghost. Now we need lots of Sansa and Ghost missing Jon fics. 

(via lookingatyousideways)

[kadarakey]

On Season 7 (SPOILERS)

*** SPOILER warning for Game of Thrones Season 7 ***

Anyone else dislike the leaked plot? The leaks seem to be correct so far (based on episode 1), which means they are going to really be leading up to Jon and Daenerys getting it on (probably means that will happen in the books as well?). I surely still hope that’s false information, because:

1) The whole aunt-nephew romance line. Creepy, no matter how you attempt to justify it.

2) I don’t see how they can sell this epic ‘romance’ in 1.5 seasons. If the characters had at least a bit of history and not have been so closely related, it would be a bit less of an issue.

3) D’s arc needs to evolve. I feel like her character is a mess, but in the books it feels intentional and is -hopefully!- leading up to something that makes sense. In the show so far, she’s just been lucky and surrounded by magic and good council. What has she achieved herself though? Dragons? Their hatching was a miracle. She failed to rule, she burned (and watched) and crucified innocent people, she wants power. I think her arc needs to address those things and find real purpose rather than forget and make her this ‘badass’ love interest of the main character. I’m sceptical they can combine both on the show, and not showing her deeds for what they are using them as part of a coherent story arc is just bad writing.

4) J is the ‘SONg OF ICE AND FIRE’. J and D as being ‘ice’ and ‘fire’ doesn’t make sense as J is already both.

5) There are literally zero qualities Jon would like in D. We know he’s put off by entitlement and likes capable ‘I can take care of myself’ women (Ygritte, Val), who don’t last for power.

6) What are the chances of the only two Targaryens in the story being the same age, meeting and falling in love over the course of 2-3 episodes? Cheesy and forced doesn’t cover it.

7) Jorah and Dany, Jon and Val, Jon and Sansa (still dodgy because cousins, but definitely less dodgy the aunt/nephew) - all have much more history and potential as love/partnership arcs.

[sansaswig-blog]

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Agree despite the part about cousins, since cousins are not incest in Westeros or the whole world besides the USA (but yeahI’m obviously biased lol). Anyway, 1000% agree with this person, great points here. Worth to read.

[kadarakey]

That’s not you.

me to whoever is pretending to be Arya Stark right now (via kadarakey)

[maevemilllay]

Me @ all of the cast and crew of Game of Thrones:

Me @ David Benioff and D.B. Weiss:

[jcrdcnfisher]

Jon is our king

THERE YOU GO HATERS!! SANSA LITERALLY COULD HAVE TAKEN THE NORTH RIGHT THEN AND THERE WITH THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE LORDS AND SHE DIDN’T!!! FUCK YOUSE GUYS SAYING SHE WANTS THE NORTH FOR HERSELF (via sansaastaerk)

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Agree and this makes this whole plot of Arya vs Sansa both contrived and stupid. But what can we expect from such shitty writers like D&D (aka Dumb and Dumber?).

[secretsolstice]

Until Jon notices Dany wearing a new dress, Jonsa is endgame.

(this may bite me in the butt)

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No don’t worry your butt will be safe. Lol ;)

[maggy-the-frog-deactivated20180]

How can we irrevocably fuck up this show for ever?

D&D plotting every episode since season 5 (via ladycommanderofsalt)

THIS.IS.SO.TRUE.

AND.SO.SAD.

Bless you, wise man! (or woman)

[sansaswig-blog]

JONSA CONFIRMED

Seriously the Jonsa fandom should be freaking out after the last episode cause it was confirmed Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne over Dany. Jon is the heir to the South, while Sansa has been confirmed as the heir in the North by the Northern Lords. All in the same episode.

Casuality much? I don’t think so. Shouldn’t the heir to the South marry the heir in the North to bring peace to the realm? To unite it before the final war? Why will Dany marry Jon when she can not give heirs to him?

Either Dany fights with Jon (Targbowl), or accepts him as her heir, but still, he will have to marry another woman and the obvious candidate is the (just confirmed) heir in the North. Not to mention is the only solution if they want to keep Jon’s rule as KITN.

So to me, JONSA IS CONFIRMED. Just fast-forward ‘boat-crap’ wait for season 8, and keep calm shipping Jonsa until it happens. CAUSE.IT.WILL.HAPPEN.

THE END.

[sansaswig-blog]

Reblogging this again, to try and bring some hope to our fandom which seems to be facing a difficult time (you know why so I won't go further on this). But let’s try and keep positive. I’m sure that our time will come and all of this will be a bad memory when we get the happiness of our dream endgame. Stay Strong Jonsa Fandom! We will win!

[fyeahjonandsansa]

Goodness gracious... all of the ship-jumping right now has me so upset...

Guys…. I just watched the scene that many are referring to. More than once, actually, in order to see it in context and it is not AT ALL how a lot of people are conveying it. Have a little bit of faith in our ship, y’all. I’m putting some thoughts about the specific scene under the jump.

Ok. So.. I’m going to go through it from beginning to end and tell you what happens and include my thoughts on why I think it’s all bullshit as side-notes as I go. Okay? Okay. (shout out to my fellow TFIOS fans out there because yes, I meant to do that)

*Note: I am not going to use shipper names or even certain character names in this post as I do not want to bring hate up in here. I’m just providing my friends with the information that they are asking for along with commentary on how it came across TO ME within context.

*Also forgive me for typos. It’s almost 2am here.

- Jon wakes up on the boat, looking all weak and groggy… D is sitting beside him crying because one of her “children” croaked. - Jon’s all “I’m sorry. I’m so sorry.” He looks like he feels incredibly guilty/awful. He grabs her hand to get her attention because she won’t look at him. He says he wished that he could take it back and that they’d never gone on the dumb mission we all thought was stupid from the beginning. (Again, another call to the fact that he’s feeling super guilty) - She says she’s glad they went because NOW she believes him. *rolls eyes* - She says “the dragons are my children. They are the only children I will ever have. Do you understand?” He makes a reserved face, kind of looks at her strangely. Sighs. Doesn’t say anything. *(This to me is very important. She just told him that she can’t have children. We’ve been told in the leaks that this would come out at some point on the boat and that he would be “fine” with it. He didn’t say anything about it at all in the scene. BUT… he knows now. And he’s always had a fear of having a bastard child because he didn’t want to do that to a kid. Now he knows that banging does not equal children in this scenario. This is very important, J/S shippers. Especially in regards to a widely felt theory that he is playing her in order to get through the war.)* - She tells him that they will destroy the enemy and their army together. She uses the phrase “you have my word.” (Remember this. He gets his promise for help and an army and dragons before saying ANYTHING else. Before promising anything on his end. He is silent up until this point outside of expressing sheer regret. Which is a Jon thing to do. Honor and such.) - He says thank you and calls her the damn nickname. She tells him that her brother who is not company you would want to keep called her that. He comes back with “Alright. Not ____. *heavy sigh* How about my queen?” He then says “I’d um.. bend the knee but…” and looks down at himself in the bed. She asks him about those who swore their allegiance to him. He says “They’re all going to see you for what you are.” *That last part, for one, is extremely fore-shadowy. HE still has not completely seen her for what she really is. He doesn’t know of his parentage yet, he doesn’t know that she burned Sam’s family… he doesn’t know a lot. He is very quiet, however, and broody and he THINKS a lot. He knows more than he lets on.  ALSO… please remember that he was SILENT as the seven hells until she made her promises FIRST. He then offered up a nickname that was refused, offered to bend the knee but didn’t actually do it, she didn’t tell him that she was going to require it of him later and they were ALONE when it happened. No witnesses. He could later betray her (which, isn’t this something that is supposed to happen to her at some point still? A betrayal in love?), and could also still give his title to S which would require HER to give the North over to this Danonos lady. He’s also.. again… ALONE with her when this conversation takes place and nothing is forced of him. She seems surprised and doesn’t seem like she is going to require him to actually do this bend the knee thing any time seen. He is now getting his army from her, he feels GUILTY and is acting kindly toward her because he is essentially the cause of the death of one of her “children,” and again, he’s getting what he wants from her. This is what his mission to see her to begin with was about entirely. He’s getting what he and the North need from her and he is NOT ultimately being required (so far) to give anything in return. He verbally and half-heartedly offered it to her alone in the middle of a guilt-filled moment. That does not mean that he is not going to later renege on these words. That does not mean that he is not going to later betray her.

- He holds her hand again (gag me) during this conversation. She then pulls it away, tells him to get some sleep and gets ready to stand. He closes his eyes, pretends to be asleep and then opens his eyes again when she is gone. He looks very bothered/guilty then.

*End Scene*

Sorry. I know it’s painful, but I wanted to convey exactly what takes place to you all along with my thoughts. I really do believe that he’s pulling one over on her. She is supposed to be betrayed for love at some point. She is convinced that he longs for/loves her, and she is falling for him. The bang will happen and she will help him in the war. This is what we knew would happen via the leaks before. Seeing it in context however is a good thing. Kit is a great actor and a lot of the time, he conveys a lot of Jon’s feelings in a scene without ever saying a word. There were a LOT of guilty looks here. The one after he fakes sleep is the most telling one. There is no one there to watch his face and he looks like he feels bad about what he is doing. I do feel like he’s doing exactly what he did with the wildlings at this point. He is saying/doing what he needs to in order to get what HE needs for the people and the place in HIS heart, and yes, he feels guilty about it because he’s honorable like Ned, but he will do what he needs to. He has done this before. He can be JUST as cunning and sneaky as anyone else on the show. He’s good at it. He just doesn’t like to do it, which is a call back to the scene he had with D where he said that he doesn’t always like doing what he’s good at doing.

Let me also do a huge callback to his scenes with S in 7x01 & 7x02. She told him not to be stupid like Robb or Ned because she didn’t want him to get himself killed. Then they had the moment where he asked her if he should listen to her and she said “would that really be so terrible?” In the VERY NEXT EPISODE, he gave her the North in his absence, proving that he does listen to her and NO, it would not be terrible. She knows what she is doing and he knows that. Is it really that far fetched to believe that maybe he is finally listening to her in this scenario as well? While a lot of it is unnecessary because D&D like to put us through stupidity to get to the good stuff, him playing this woman the whole time in order to get what he needs would be FAR from “stupid” or “dumb.” It would do the opposite of getting him killed by her and it would get him help in the war which would in turn help the people and the place that he has said is in his heart.

I’ll leave you with a quote to remember because I feel like I’ve said ways too much. Hello novel? Also… sorry for the typos and run-on sentences. Again, it’s 2:00am here.

- “The North is my home. It is part of me, and I will NEVER stop fighting for it, no matter the odds.” - Jon SAID this only a few episodes ago. REMEMBER this. He’s playing her, y’all. I really feel it.

[sansaswig-blog]

Agree the Jonsa Fandom should not panic. We are pointing out to something greater here which is endgame. J*nerys is only fan service and apparently will be more related to the need of armies and dragons, and guilt. Pretty much a ‘pity sex’. No love comes from such relationship. And since Dany is barren their whole relationship is pointless. And no, I don't believe j*nerys claims of magical babies. There is not enough time for that in only 6 episodes. So let's keep calm and shipping jonsa. Our time will come, I’m sure.

[sansaswig-blog]

Is more like the person that posted that comment is the one that was raised as an animal? Wtf is wrong with this dumb sad pathetic creature that has to lurk a tag for a couple he claims to despise?

And by the way dear pathetic troll: No, they were NOT raised as siblings, not in a traditional way, and you would know it if you were able to read a book, and you had read the first book of the ASOIAF series. But I’m guessing reading is not something a person like you likes to do. So go back to trolling and insulting people randomly because you can’t stand that somebody else thinks differently than you.

You been reported and blocked, and I invite my fellows jonsa shippers to do the same, let’s stop fearing these assholes, this is our place to say whatever we want to say, this is our tag. Let’s claim it!

[sansaswig-blog]

JONSA CONFIRMED

Seriously the Jonsa fandom should be freaking out after the last episode cause it was confirmed Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne over Dany. Jon is the heir to the South, while Sansa has been confirmed as the heir in the North by the Northern Lords. All in the same episode.

Casuality much? I don't think so. Shouldn't the heir to the South marry the heir in the North to bring peace to the realm? To unite it before the final war? Why will Dany marry Jon when she can not give heirs to him?

Either Dany fights with Jon (Targbowl), or accepts him as her heir, but still, he will have to marry another woman and the obvious candidate is the (just confirmed) heir in the North. Not to mention is the only solution if they want to keep Jon's rule as KITN.

So to me, JONSA IS CONFIRMED. Just fast-forward 'boat-crap' wait for season 8, and keep calm shipping Jonsa until it happens. CAUSE.IT.WILL.HAPPEN.

THE END.

[oneofthosecrazycatladies]

You've been kidnapped but the main character of the last TV show you watched is coming to rescue you.

Who’s rescuing you?

[mothertimestwo]

Ye-Rim from Akmong Seonsaeng!!! Neatooo she’s a frikin genius

[wendynerdwrites]

Rick Sanchez. But if TV movie count, then it’ll be Susan Sto Helit, which I am VERY happy with.

[a-baleful-howl]

[sansaswig-blog]

This could be complicated... Lol :D Help...me...A...ge...nt...Coo...per

[howlinwolfwb]

WILL WE SEE AN A MARRIAGE BETWEEN JON AND SANSA IN GAME OF THRONES?

And will the pairing that a lot of fans already want be the one that we all need?

A few book readers speculated that a political marriage between Jon Snow and Sansa Stark would be not only possible, but the best thing for House Stark, and maybe even for each other. However, the idea of any kind of match between them was a quiet cult theory, until season 6 of Game Of Thrones, which set Twitter and Tumblr on fire with the idea of the “Jonsa” romance ship. In this article, I’m going to go through as many reasons as I have discovered for this potential pairing, the foreshadowing that a lot of people might have overlooked, and why readers and viewers should think twice before completely dismissing the idea.

As I am starting with the books, I’ll go ahead and start at the very beginning, before the books were written. In George R. R. Martin’s outline for the series, he had a love triangle in the works, between Jon, Tyrion, and Arya. Even before the first book was finished, he had plans for Jon to wed a Stark cousin. The outline states on the subject:

“Arya will be more forgiving… until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night’s Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon’s true parentage is finally revealed in the last book.”

Given what I am about to lay out in this article, there seems to be a strong chance of GRRM having kept the cousin love triangle, but switched at least the sister, if not the other man (Jon/Tyrion[Littlefinger]/Sansa).

Jon and Sansa began their stories, and left Winterfell, with very similar ideas and worldviews, despite their differing personalities. Both were not just young, heady, and optimistic; both believed in the songs they were sung to as children, but in the heroes the songs described. Both had fantasies of a quieter life and family that, conspicuously, left each other out, and synchronized perfectly with each other.

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister’s son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly’s boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We’d find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance’s son and Craster’s would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb. He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. - A Storm Of Swords - Jon XII

This is a fantasy Jon had, ostensibly about Val, the Wildling sister of Mance Rayder’s wife, whom Jon was infatuated with, at the time. However, she does not feature at all after a cursory mention of stealing her away. He fantasized much more about the hypothetical family than her, and both that fact, and his fantasy-family makeup, is very telling, in three ways. 1.  This fantasy is a direct and near-perfect recreation of the Stark household that he remembers, with him as the new Neddish patriarch. 2. He is not fantasizing about a Wildling girl who walks through Walker territory like it ain’t no thang, or a warrior girl, or a highborn princess, or even a platinum-haired nude dragon queen. He is fantasizing about Val as a mother, and more importantly, as not only the mother he knew (Catelyn), but how he wished Catelyn to be. 3. Most women that we read about in aSoIaF or watch in GoT do not share this fantasy; Westerosi girls tend to be action girls. The only female character who had any kind of similar fantasy, let alone one that synchronizes nearly perfectly to Jon’s, is Sansa:

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa’s dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya. - A Storm Of Swords - Sansa

Although they fantasized about different people ostensibly (Jon-Val; Sansa-Willas/Loras Tyrell), both fantasies complete the other, and tell very similar stories about each of them. Both think that love is an addendum to marriage, and something that needs to be worked on. They both disregard the personalities of their interest for what they remember of their mother and father. They both recreate their dead and missing siblings, with exceptions. Robb, Arya, Bran and Rickon are noted, as well as even a Ned. The only figures missing are themselves and each other.

What makes this so extremely notable is not just that the fantasies click perfectly together. It’s not even that Jon’s always wanted exactly this, even from the start, when he dared not wish for his own family. What makes this truly meaningful, is that there is only one girl in all of Westeros who knows what growing up in Winterfell was like, and who wants the same thing as him, and is not yearning for adventure, vengeance, a throne, or power, let alone above this desire.

Just as Sansa is the only person who fits the bill for Jon, Jon is the only man who has lived up perfectly to Sansa’s fantasies and dreams of heroic knights in shining armor.

“Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.” - A Game Of Thrones - Sansa

Curiously, although Prince Aemon Targaryen is a historical character in the Ice & Fire/Thrones universe, Prince Aemon is also the role Jon would take in childhood mock jousts with Robb; judge for yourself if that’s a coincidence.

“I’m Prince Aemon the Dragonknight,” Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, “Well, I’m Florian the Fool.” -A Storm of Swords – Jon XII

(Sidenote - foreshadowing with other foreshadowing: if you think about it, Robb literally died a fool. He got himself, and Cat, killed for love, when he could’ve married the Frey girl, gotten safe passage from the Freys, and marched towards Kings Landing to avenge his father and rescue Sansa. But we all know what he was thinking with instead of his brain…)

Jon is by every and all accounts the valiant and heroic knight Sansa wished and pined for, as a dreamy 11-year-old girl. Before I continue, I have to add that the men of the Night’s Watch are often referred to as The Black Knights.

Jon has all of the qualities of the kind of man Ned described to her, as well as all of the qualities of the kind of man she’d always wanted; both as a young, wistful girl dreaming of Aemon the Dragonknight making Queen Naerys his lady love, and the shattered, hardened, and disaffected woman she’s grown to become. She has discarded her fairy tales, because she has realized, through firsthand experience, that those fairytales are not nearly as pretty as they sound. The fairytales are horrifying; they are soaked in the blood and tears of the events and people they describe. Jon is the only character who can fulfill both the dreams and fantasies of 11-year-old Sansa, and the disillusioned young woman who’s never until now known a true hero. No other character in either aSoIaF or GoT can do the same:

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes, and she remembered what Lord Petyr had said to her, here in this very hall. “Life is not a song, sweetling,” he’d told her. “You may learn that one day to your sorrow.” In life, the monsters win, she told herself, and now it was the Hound’s voice she heard, a cold rasp, metal on stone. “Save yourself some pain, girl, and give him what he wants.” - A Game Of Thrones - Sansa VI

That he did, albeit with poor grace, crossing his arms, scowling, and ignoring the naked steel in his lord commander’s hands. Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples, thinking how easily the blade would slide through skin and fat and sinew to part Slynt’s ugly head from his body. All of a man’s crimes were wiped away when he took the black, and all of his allegiances as well, yet he found it hard to think of Janos Slynt as a brother. There is blood between us. This man helped slay my father and did his best to have me killed as well. - A Dance With Dragons - Jon II

Not long after, in the same chapter, Jon does the deed:

Emmett kicked his legs out from under him. Dolorous Edd planted a foot on his back to keep him on his knees as Emmett shoved the block beneath his head. “This will go easier if you stay still,” Jon Snow promised him. “Move to avoid the cut, and you will still die, but your dying will be uglier. Stretch out your neck, my lord.” The pale morning sunlight ran up and down his blade as Jon clasped the hilt of the bastard sword with both hands and raised it high. “If you have any last words, now is the time to speak them,” he said, expecting one last curse.

Janos Slynt twisted his neck around to stare up at him. “Please, my lord. Mercy. I’ll … I’ll go, I will, I …”

No, thought Jon. You closed that door. Longclaw descended.

Their geographic and psychological journeys are near-perfect mirrors of each other. Sansa heads south while Jon goes north. Sansa becomes Lady Lannister, then a bastard (an identity at least partially crafted on her ideas of Jon); then, in the show, Lady Bolton, and finally the Lady of Winterfell. Jon, meanwhile, goes from Bastard, to Jon Stark (in Robb’s will, which Jon hasn’t seen or heard about), to Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, and in the show, finally, King in the North. Both have to pretend they want nothing to do with their previous lives (Sansa as a prisoner in KL, and Jon with the Wildlings). Both have to essentially fake it to make it, as Sansa tries to actively forget she is not Alayne Stone, and Jon is tempted to stay with the Wildlings. Through all of this, they both try to cling to certain things. Even after abandoning their childhood idealisms to make hard choices, and even through the processes of grieving for their family, as well as trying to become different people, they both have always held notions of justice, fairness, and even compassion close to their hearts and minds.

Also, out of all the surviving Starks, only Sansa sensed Jon’s death:

“There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, as big as mountains.” - A Feast For Crows - Sansa’s final chapter

As soon as news of Jon’s parentage comes out in the North, his claim to Winterfell will be, at the very least, heavily debated among and contested by the Northern lords. Although half Stark, he is not the son of Eddard, but of Lyanna. On top of that, he has a Targaryen father. Seeing as the Mad King killed Ned’s father Rickard Stark, and Ned’s brother Brandon. The Northern lords will have no loyalty to a Targaryen. Jon/Sansa would be both an excellent twist of the kind that aSoIaF/Got are known for, and mutually beneficial for the both. Their marriage would secure Jon’s claim to the North, unite the North as it needs to be for the War for the Dawn, and secures the safety and place at Winterfell for both. Also, as she says in the books, “No one will ever marry me for love.” It’s a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless; every and all other Lords would want to marry her for her claim to Winterfell. Jon, though, would never force Sansa to marry anyone. He knows what she’s been through. He cares for her, and would never hurt her in any way. Sansa knows this, and it might just be what will drive her to suggest they marry. Jon needs a Queen either way, to keep the Stark bloodline going. I will even go so far as to say this: I think that the northern lords will want to make Sansa their Queen after they find out about Jon’s parentage, in which case, same thing; she’ll need to keep the Stark bloodline going. Add to that him being a Targaryen, and she a Stark, they would literally be uniting not only the North, but the South too. Soon, every person in the whole of at least Westeros will find out about the Night’s King and the White Walkers. It is this exact moment that the North will need stability, and hope. A union between Sansa and Jon would give the northerners nothing less or other than that. Jon is a great commander. He is brave, and honorable, and he will do all he can to keep Sansa and all the northerners safe. He’ll fight for them. The prospect, the reassurance, and after the battle is over and the war is won, Winterfell and the North will be rebuilt, by its people with the support and help of their King and Queen. Everything points to their union. The prospect, the reassurance, that after the battle is over, after the war is won, Winterfell, the North will be rebuilt, by its people with the support and help of their King and Queen. Everything that points to a good resolution for the stories of Ice & Fire, and Thrones, points to their union.

Even on Thrones, David Benioff and Dan Weiss have planted an insane amount of seeds for Jonsa. Not only for a political union, but in season 6 set the internet on fire with gooey Jonsa romantic tension, with gems such as this moment, from s6e5 (The Door):

Jon: New dress? Sansa: I made it myself, do you like it? Jon: Yeah, well, it’s—I like the wolf bit.

Brothers awkwardly fumbling for words to compliment their half-sister’s dress? Not something you see everyday. This scene was unnecessary, but D&D included it, I’ll allege for a reason. I’m not necessarily saying that Jon is in love with Sansa here, but the tension between them and their interactions are very awkward, and not how they should be between two people who think they are brother and sister. Also, this is not something a brother says to a sister in danger:

Jon: I won’t ever let him touch you again. I’ll protect you. I promise. (From s6e9 - Battle Of The Bastards)

Again, a bizarre choice of words, if Jonsa is not a component of the story. Brothers say things like “ I will never let him hurt you again”, or “tell me where he is”.  Let’s not forget most of their scenes have them speaking while being surrounded by warm candle light and with soft focus; quite a romantic atmosphere for two SIBLINGS. The way their scenes were shot, do not only mirror Ned’s and Cat’s, but also Robb’s and Talisa’s. I find it hard to believe D&D wrote and shot their scenes the way they did accidentally. They wanted to do one of either two things: either set Twitter and Tumblr on fire with Sophie and Kit’s chemistry; or, subtly, put this notion into our heads, have us talk about it, and speculate. Whichever they did, it obviously worked, thus introducing us to the idea, and actually preparing us for it.

PS I thought that @castaliareed and @fedonciadale  would be interested in this meta; I hope it’s good for a 1st.

[sansaswig-blog]

Ser Davos: Forgive me Your Grace, but I feel the need to point out that you and your good lady cousin have been makin' eyes at each other for a good long while now. Is it not time to 'make a move' as it were?

Jon: Aye, I'd love to Dadvos, truly I would...but I just...can't.

Ser Davos: You and Lady Sansa are no longer siblings Your Grace. You never really were. You could-

Jon: THERE ARE NO CAVES IN WINTERFELL DADVOS! What am I meant to do?! *mutters to himself* it's my 'go-to' move