#bl archetype

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Younger Gay Identifying Elder Gay as MINE

I JUST LOVE IT OKAY!!!!! Favorite trope forever! 

Minato’s Laundromat 

Old Fashion Cupcake 

Guardian 

Private Lessons 

Some More 

Tasty Florida 

HIStory 2: Crossing the Line 

HIStory 3: Make Our Days Count 

HIStory 4: Close to You (yeah yeah bite me) 

En of Love: Tossera 

Gen Y 

2 Moons 2 

Lovely Writer 

Manner of Death 

Oxygen 

Puppy Honey 

SOTUS 

Top Secret Together 

Until We Meet Again 

Y-Destiny 

You’re My Sky 

Brothers 

From 2023

Future the series

Love Class 2

Love Mate 

Moonlight Chicken

Kiseki: Dear to Me (sort of)

Love Tractor

The Eighth Sense (sort of)

From 2024 (so far)

Began Beginning

Only Boo!

Pit Babe (sort of)

Sahara-sensei to Toki-kun (beware)

Although I Love You and You

Perfect Propose

Unknown

AKA my CATNIP 

More in depth reviews and discussions on some of these here:

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Baby is a Chaos Muffin in BL

A while ago tsukiyadori asked about characters like Aoki (My Love Mix-Up) & Zon (Why R U?). These are characters whose bisexual identity crisis becomes EVERYONE’S problem. Much more common in uke, but there are a few seme out there too. Ryu/Ryoma from Love Stage!! definitely qualifies. Especially Ryoma. 

In fact, there are a TON of these from Japan. This archetype is real common in manga because the emotional extremes and companion klutzy slapstick behavior is fun to draw. Also there’s a prevailing Japanese inclination to find this not so much awkward as cute. Or maybe it’s just that awkward = cute. 

The Chaos Muffins of BL

JAPAN

Mob in A Man Who Defies the World of BL 1 & 2. Takes on chaos as a religion. 

Adachi in Cherry Magic, everyone’s favorite chaotic mind reader. Actually knows what people are thinking, still freaks out about it. Also Tsuge, SO BONKERS his boyfriend calls him out on it.

Ozaki is Same Difference, chaos wears a suit.

Aoki in My Love Mix Up, drama queen of the memes, ruler of chaos nation.

Amagi in Takara & Amagi, world’s cutest tiny typhoon of chaos. 

Minato in Minato’s Laundromat, chaos should know better. 

Ryoma in Love Stage!! the seme side of chaos.

Haruta in Ossan’s Love. Probubly responsible for mapping chaos nation.

Hira in My Beautiful Man, chaos comes in stalker & awkward to match all your wardrobe needs.

THAILAND

JackKoh KohJack in Gen Y 2. 

Can in LBC 1 & 2. 

Ryo in Love Stage!! (not as much as the original). Also Thee + his buddies. 

Zon in Why R U?

The entire cast of Secret Crush On You, except Intouch.

And, similarly, everyone but Pun in YYY.

The emotional support queers in Tonhon Chonlatee.

Love in Great Men Academy might qualify. But I always hesitate to call this one BL. Also the neighbor phis in TharnType 1 & 2 whose names I can never remember. And whoever wrote The Tuxedo. 

KOREA

Korean chaos monkeys are so tame as to hardly compare but maybe:

YeonSeok of First Love Again

SangHa of Mr. Heart

SeolWon of Oh! Boarding House

TAIWAN

Taiwan similarly few, possibly Zhao in HIStory 3: Trapped, and LiCheng in HIStory 4. Also the premier himbo chaos bi from H3 the BL that shall not be named. 

CHINA 

LuLin in My Esports Genius Brother is a total chaos muffin, but not in exactly the same way as others because aggressive autonomous uke and also… China, but still worth a mention. It’s an extremely strange but oddly appealing show, mostly because of this character. So if you really like this archetype, you might give it a try.  

XiaoYu from River Knows Fish Heart reps for China’s seme version of this variant.

Honorable mention to Tay Tawan, IRL chaos muffin.

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Your recent ask got me thinking, I do love a good age gap. Any chance you track BLs with age gaps on your magical spreadsheet, or can just remember ones that you have seen?

BLs With Age Gaps - Hyung Romances

So if the het version is noona romances, are these considered hyung romances? Eh, let's do that. For a lot of these BLs, since the seme is usually the older character, the age gap is standardized so not a big deal and not a plot point. 

With very few exceptions, I'm not going to talk about shorter age gaps, by which I mean like FighterTutor or DeanPharm or JaeYoung & SangWoo, where the older boy is the seme and is older by a few years, because these are not really about the age. If that makes sense?

Instead I picked ones where, for me, the age is visually present and kind of a bigger deal in terms of life stage and narrative, e.g. one of them is still in school while the other is not... things like that.

CHINA 

Advance Bravely

We don't know the age difference Xia Yao and Yuan Zong, but Yuan Zong acts and looks quite a bit older. Censored before it concluded.

Guardian

Well the alien/fantasy people are thousands of years older than their romantic counterparts, so yeah big age gaps. Censored from the get go but we all get it anyway.

JAPAN 

Pornographer series

So this is a dirty gaslighting crazy piece of Japan being SO Japan about this trope. But it sure is age gap. Established novelist with an intention to corrupt, bullies college kid into writing his porn for him with the intent to seduce.

Minato’s Laundromat

My favorite version of this, younger seme older uke, 10 year age gap. I love this show so much. 

Old Fashion Cupcake

Another age flip, only both characters are older, it’s office set, and added obstacle of boss/employee dynamic. God it’s so good. 

JAPAN & THAILAND

Love Stage

Ryu is out in the world as a full on actor idol and Anda is still in university. The Japanese version has the same age gap.

KOREA

1st Love Again

YeonSeok remembers his past lives and is an established writer, he also looks older than HaYeon who is a new editor. So this BL feels very age gap. There isn't much hyung-ing tho. 

Kissable Lips

Your bog standard ancient vampire falls in love with a college kid trope, only gay and Korean. It's good but it ends sad, but it certainly is a massive age gap.

Tasty Florida

EunKyu is an established chef with a successful business and HaeWon has just entered the workforce so there is some kind of age gap going on. They also act this way right away, instantly going with hyung.

You Make Me Dance

HongSeok is a loan shark and clearly quite a bit older than college kid ShiOn.

THE PHILIPPINES 

My Day the series

Ace is the CEO of a company, although he looks younger he is probubly quite a bit older than Sky who is still in college. However, these two don't act at all like there actually is an age gap in play.

TAIWAN 

HIStory 2: Right or Wrong

Probubly the most typical execution on this list. YiJie is a lot older than ShengZhe and also his professor, since this is a teacher/student romance which is a classic age gap story. 

HIStory 3: the BL that shall not be named & HIStory 4: Close to You

The side characters in H3 and cameos in H4 BoXiang and ZhiGang have a huge age gap, 12 years, and it is a big deal for their relationship.

HIStory 4: Close to You

YongJie is quite a bit younger than XingSi, not sure on the specifics but he's in middle school when XingSi is in high school and still in college when XingSi has his own business. Also the stepbrother trope. 

See You After Quarantine?

Definitely an older younger dynamic with a college kid and an established businessman. Also SO flipping cute.

THAILAND 

Tale of Thousand Stars

Chief & Tian must have a pretty big age gap.

Brothers

This is not a good show, but side couple Khun & Kaow are great in it and this is my favorite version of an age gap: younger seme + older uke. Khun is in university and Kaow has a baking business.

Lovely Writer

Again Sib is quite a bit younger than Gene and the pursuer, man I love this dynamic. Since Gene is out of university and established in his career, I'm calling this one for age gap. 

Not Me

DanYok is an age gap, but it isn't really the point or the plot of their romantic arc.

Dear Doctor I'm Coming For Your Soul 

Absolutely an age gap, I mean one of them is an immortal reaper. Also they confront and address the ultimate issue that one of them will age when the other one doesn’t. It’s poignantly handled, but I thought quite lovely.  

VIETNAM 

My Lascivious Boss

Vietnam's age gap offering. He's the owner of the cafe and his boy is just out of university (?). It's very very cute. 

Also Nation's Brother might qualify.

Others With Age Gaps but I'm Not Into it

Ossan's Love (Thai) triangle second lead

Waterboyy (Thai) side couple

Make it Right 2 (Thai) side het romance, very problematic

Bite Me (Thai)

Call It What You Want (Thai)

Friend Forever (Thai)

Because of You (Taiwan)

Innocent (Taiwan) short

Light (Taiwan) short

The Immeasurable (Taiwan) short

Top Secret Together and Love By Chance both have sub plots of high school boys pursuing college ones, but the one didn’t go anywhere and the other went very very bad, so yeah... no. Although I would personally LOVE to see this done well. 

You could make the case that Devil Judge also qualifies.

MOAR!!!

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BL character archetype that I love 

BRATS! 

Xia Yao in Advanced Bravely 

Gu Hai in Addicted Heroin 

Lu Lin in My Esport Genius Brother 

Kiyoi in My Beautiful Man 

Yoo Han in Color Rush 

Jung Woo in My Sweet Dear

Jae Young‬ in Semantic Error (psycho brat) 

Tae Joo in Where Your Eyes Linger 

The Merman in 49 Days With A Merman 

Yu Hao in HIStory 2: Crossing the Line 

Jack in HIStory 3: Trapped (deadly psycho variant) 

Li Cheng in HIStory 4: Closer to You 

I think a brat (in the narrative archetype sense) can be either uke or seme (if that dynamic is in place). Although I recognize that in kink it is almost entirely a subs domain. Korea seems to really like a seme brat. Also worth noting, seme brats are usually paired with tsundere ukes. 

This is a fun character to watch but can push into annoying if the actor isn’t careful. Brats tease and make fun for the sake of it, specifically to get a rise out of their partners. But they aren’t malicious about it and they don’t have to be tsundere either. In fact, sometimes they are quite sunny (see Nampu in Top Secret Together). But if the push too much without showing weakness or affection, then they can come off as harsh and unsympathetic. 

There’s spoiled rich kid variants. 

There are overly emotional lost boys looking for someone to ground them. 

And there obtuse idiots who are dipping pigtails because they don’t realize they are in love. 

Thailand’s Brats! 

Okay so some of these are also other archetypes, but here we go!

Tine in 2gether 

Pete in the Kiss series

Fiat in Don’t Say No (bratiest of all brats) 

Tagmo in Great Men Academy 

Mark in Gen Y (but not really in season 2)  

Duen in My Engineer (serious linguistic brat)

Kao in Oxygen 

Pick in Puppy Honey (asshole varient) 

Na in Tonhon Chonlatee (sunglasses variant) 

Nampu in Top Secret Together (kitten variant) 

Win & Team in Until We Meet Again (the rare pairing of the brats) 

Nuea in Y Destiny (spoiled prince variant) 

San in You’re My Sky (seme is a puppy variant) 

Apparently in Thailand brats have a tensity to be a bit flash with their clothing and accessories, or lack there of. 

This is a difficult character to act and still have be sympathetic. The brat has to be a little bit broken or a little bit fragile or a little bit insecure. There has to be a need driving the brattiness, which is why I think a brat like Duen (My Engineer) doesn’t work where a brat like Kiyoi (My Beautiful Man) or Team (Until We Meet Again) does. All of these are tsundere uke characters, but Kiyoi and Team both clearly needs something desperately from their semes, where as Duen just seems to be bratty for the sake of it. 

A tsundere uke who is bratty out of obtuseness, willful ignorance, or idiocy (yes I am thinking about Tine in 2gether) is a harder one for me to take. And there are a few tsundere uke who might cross into brattiness now and then but if their core struggle is about identity and the seme is being his usual aggressive  self, I tend to give these ones a pass and not really think of them as brats (Jin in Nitiman, for example). 

The brat can also cross pollinate with the autonomous uke. Another favorite archetype of mine. 

This one came via request from @weekendatennuis​ who reminded me I hadn’t done brats yet!

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So I was thinking about how I like that in The Eclipse, the seme is shorter than the uke for once, and wrote in the tags that I do enjoy a good size difference in which the seme is bigger than the uke, though, like with Deanpharm and Seanwhite.

But then I remembered you explaining that Doms are necessarily the semes nor subs the uke. And with Deanpharm and Seanwhite, the interest is entirely mutual and equally pursued(though Pharm is a total Blushing Maiden), but there IS a strong D/s vibe in both couples.

So my question is, is there a seme/uke dynamic in those relationships?

So right now I'd argue that there is none with the leads in The Eclipse. I mean Aye is the active aggressor but is that just flirtatious character or does he have intent to pursue a real relationship or is there an ulterior motive? What happens if Akk decides to flip the dynamic? Which he certainly could at any moment. 

Eclipse is a lot more like Bad Buddy in this regard. Which I don't think really had seme/uke. I love it that Thailand is finally moving away from this model.

Vice Versa Jimmy is shorter but his character is clearly the aggressor but also is in doubt with a possible ulterior motive, and being an ACTOR character his interest can always be considered performative. Also I am pretty sure they are going to play with us, and roles, because of that title. Or they will if they’re clever, and it feels like them might try to be clever with this one. 

In Sky in my Heart Fah also shorter, but definitely the seme, mostly because I doubt Mek could play an uke to save his life. 

Incidentally actors who have successfully played both roles number essentially 2: Gong Jun (Advance Bravely and Word of Honor) and Tay Tawan (Kiss series and 3 Will Be Free). 

SeanWhite I don’t think really had much seme/uke. I would call it a weak dynamic and a lot of the seme/uke feel came from OffGun’s style and pre-existing dynamic. But also I’d argue Not Me isn’t really that much of a BL so it doesn’t bother to bow to the conceits of the genre. 

DeanPharm on the other hand, I would call classic seme/uke. Practically poster children. Their alter selves were not, and that’s part of the disconnect and discomfort with the reincarnation. Pharm lost much of Inn’s autonomy to fear and timidity because of how his past life ended. Just because Dean is soft and a great communicator never discount his semeness. He is entirely in charge of pursuing their relationship, it’s just he’s also willing to back off because his past self was the one that fucked up and he must atone for that. Part of that atonement is limiting his own needs and desires in a very un-seme way. But in the end he gets what he wants. 

More like this?

BL couples where there is no seme/uke 

Demi Seme 

Strong Seme/Uke But Still Gentle? 

Any BLs where the seme has more feminine traits? 

Aggressive & Autonomous Ukes in BL - when the Uke Forced to Undertake the Seme Role

Instances of seme/uke role reversal? 

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So I know you love a good tsundere, and who doesn't? So me and a friend started watching some BL shows lately, cause what else ar eyou supposed to do with you time? The thing is my friends prefers a good kuudere to a tsundere. So do you have any good kuudere character recommendations? Thanks

Oooooh, lovely challenge, let's go! 

kuudere クーデレ = a character who is calm and collected and never panics, shows little emotion, and can even be completely emotionless. They may be hiding true feelings deep down, but rarely (if ever) show them. This archetype is popular for: older siblings, teachers, morally grey, ancient supernatural (gods), and warrior characters. 

stern daddy is stern 

Kuudere Characters in BL

There are fewer of these in general because Thailand dominates BL and they do NOT like kuudere, too emo. But I think I can find you a few. They mostly gonna come from China tho, so that means censored bromances. It also means this is almost always the seme character. 

FROM CHINA 

Advance Bravely's Yuan Zong. 

We will never know if he's secretly a cinnamon roll, but I suspect as much. Still I think he fits the bill. Warning this BL is wackdoodle, Chinese censorship got ahold of it and instead of sad or depressing like normal, it just got weird af (with no actual f, of course).

Guardian's Puppet Master. 

This is a censored bromance but this side couple is so cute - very grumpy sunshine. He is stoney faced and entirely unflappable, as one might expect from an ancient alien with a super creepy power. Are they a couple? Maaayyyybeeee. Certainly in my universe. 

K.O. from Love O2O. 

Unequivocally my favorite on this list. This is a very very subtle side couple, but they gay, no doubts here. K.O. is pitch PERFECT kuudere. He doesn’t enter the series until half way through and they are very very side dishy, so you might not want to bother with the series just for them. Still, perky sunshine coder and badass hacker is probubly the best pairing ever to happen in modern cinema and I am wrecked we haven’t gotten an actual BL for this trope yet. 

Mr frostypants from the Untamed. 

Yeah yeah, bite me. But I think you could make a case for boy’s got a kuudere flute stuck up his proverbial arse. In the best possible way, of course. 

FROM THAILAND  

There may be a few more from Thailand than I listed, but I think that it is mainly wooden acting. (I thought long and hard about Itt from My Gear and Your Gown and then was like, “Why I’m I thinking so much about this crap show?” and stopped.) 

Phu from Oxygen. 

He’s about as close as Thailand gets to kuudere. This is the side dish seme in this series, and I found him profoundly unlikeable, but he fits the bill. 

Dean in Until We Meet Again. 

Okay he cracks a smile a few times but generally he’s totally unflappable. Honestly, I stuck him on this list because he is basically linguistically kuudere (SO COOL). Which is to stay, the way he speaks Thai is SO curt, and he is almost always entirely stoney faced. That changes in the later half of the series, but his language always remains sharp, and cool, and abrupt, bordering on rude but somehow not. And he’s allowed to get away with it because of his personality!  

There were a couple boys who almost make this list from Korea and Taiwan but actually turn out to be too much stundere semes for me. 

Honestly, I am probubly missing a ton from Japanese dark BL. 

It’s an archetype they loved to use (like Boys Love) often in the uke character. This is because, narratively, when a kuudere uke won’t budge or relent he gives the seme “license” to spiral into murder, mutilation, rape, and so forth. But there is a reason I only watch those shows once. 

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I was wondering if there are instances where the seme/uke roles change once the couple becomes a couple. Like can one person be the pursuer before the relationship starts but then the other will have the power/control over the relationship once they are together? Or does that not happen and once a seme, always a seme?

Instances of seme/uke role reversal

Are there instances where the seme uke roles change once the couple becomes a couple? 

There are some instances of male characters in Kdramas and romances form Mainland China saying outright, "After I marry, my wife has complete control." Like literally “she'll be in charge of everything and tell me what to do.” This is a kind of outsourcing the moral compass. It can include him literally passing over the wallet (or house keys), giving her the financial reigns. There’s a little bit of this in Love O2O. 

I mention this because of the heterosexual dysmorphia of seme/uke originally, so this kind of flip is not unheard of. 

You need a specific kind of personality in the seme. He needs to be very invested in the long term nature of the relationship, and very much willing to trade power for love/sex/affection. These aren’t really core seme personality traits. 

Seryo in Seven Days (see? there it is, I found a way to mention it) says he likes to be ordered about by his lover. But their's isn't really a seme/uke dynamic.

Back to your question.

2022 UPDATE 

Love triangle interest and ex-bf (seme) of the main uke in Check Out the series, becomes the center of his own love triangle in the final 3 episodes, where he is being courted by a boy who clearly wants to be his seme and pined after by a younger boy who wants to be his uke. This is the only obvious instance I have ever seen. Tee literally implies that’s one of the things he is struggling to decide between:

Be Love In House: I Do springs to mind. Also the Cornered Mouse Dreams of Cheese. But both of these I question whether seme/uke exists. And if it does, the uke has a TON of agency. 

There are definitely side dish instances like PitchBank in Golden Blood or CopyNampu in Top Secret Together or even KhunKao in Brothers, where the uke character is clearly the boss of the relationship once they get together and this may (or may not) have been the reason for the difficulty in getting together in the first place: 

the seme realized his boy was bossy from the start and knew any resulting relationship meant handing over the reigns in the end.

Then again there are semes that really seem to relish the idea. 

We don’t often get to follow the couple into their coupledom, so it’s hard to say for certain what happened. 

I think the best example might be WBL. 

I mean ShiDe in We Best Love 2 says he’s willing just to be ShuYi’s assistant in order to never leave his side, and we can all tell he’d be happy to be a house husband. He also offers ShuYi’s dad a dowery (for himself). 

All this is an identity pay out. Since social position (especially job & title) is vital to masculine status, ShiDe willing to sacrifice that could be seen as a handing over of the seme role going forward. Also we all know who rules the roost and the relationship with these two - ShiDe might have pursued but ShuYi is in charge.

At the end of Addicted doesn’t GuHai basically say “I will let you get away with anything so long as you don’t betray (cheat on) me?” So that might count. But we never got to see this proved in any way. 

I’m sure there are a few other examples of this kind of power dynamic shifting.

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Who are your top BL antagonists? I'm getting tired of completely interchangeable crazy/evil exes. Of course a villain isn't necessary to put obstacles in the way of a romance, but it has to be possible to do a BL villain right, right?

Honestly my favorite BLs tend to be ones were there is no real villain (Light On Me, We Best Love, To My Star, Seven Days, 1000 Stars, Cherry Magic, Wish You, et al...) it just circumstances or they just idiots or both.

John (anyone else miss Nicky?) in SOTUS S is a great villain. Probubly my favorite. I found him realistic to the situation. There are always assholes like him in any cubical workplace. Maybe he’s a bit more one dimensional than IRL, but yeah, he was easy to hate. (I actually really like SOTUS S, sometimes better than the original.)

Good Baddies: Evil Crazy Exes & Crushes Who Won’t Back Down

AKA The Faen Fatal in Thai BL 

Of the two my preference (I guess you could say) is for the crush variant not the ex variant. (Maybe it’s because I am usually the one to leave a relationship but I do NOT get wanting to get back together with an ex. Here’s a motto for you: Always remember why you loved them and never forget why you left them.) 

I might be alone in this but I really like Non in Dark Blue Kiss. I think you can see why he is the way he is and acts the way he does. He wants Kao and goes after him even though he's just a spoiled high school kid. He handles his crush badly because he's a neglected child. His motivation is never in question. Maybe it’s just that I know people like him and so he felt very realistic to me. 

Aey in Lovely Writer is similar, but I think they should have portrayed his crush on Gene earlier and with more delicacy because that twist (narratively) came out of nowhere. 

I have a weird soft spot for Alex in UWMA, but he’s really just a plot devise. I don’t think he ranks faen fatal level. That said, he was the first out bisexual character I ever noticed in a Thai BL, so I forgive him a lot (including playing into the slutty predatory bi archetype). 

My least favorites are Long in TharnType (or most all of Mame’s baddies) and whats-her-face in Tonhon Chonlatee. 

Other antagonists I like that aren't faen fatals?

Well that tends to be parents. 

Bad Buddy would be the most extreme version but the parents are kind of the bad guys in UWMA, WBL, Oxygen, Lovely Writer and a number of other BLs. That’s the nature of the YA, coming of age, coming out, self actualization beast tho. Parents are required to be either: bad, evil, absent, or waft in as ultra supportive plot devices. (This last I like so much I chronicle it.) 

For me the grandfather character in He’s Coming to Me is the best version of this archetype. I like a truly evil greedy patriarch character. 

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