#c!tommy negative

[call-me-apple]

Watching old Tommy dsmp VODs to reconnect with canon after too much exposure to fanon c!Tommy and annoying inniters so that I don't overflow with hatred and remember that I actually find the character somewhat enjoyable.

[theminecraftbox]

/rp /dsmp

I’ve realized that my opinion of the Tommy and Dream dynamic as it currently stands, and as it’s stood for some time, is that it’s… just kinda boring.

The problem is not that their dynamic is uninteresting per se: I think there’s plenty to be said about how Tommy has the ability to push Dream’s buttons (both intentionally and not) in ways practically no one else can, and how Dream reserves a genuine spite and even sadism for Tommy that he simply doesn’t have for anyone else.

The trouble is that it’s stagnant. It hasn’t changed since exile, and it’s not going to change, and that’s because Tommy has an extremely shallow understanding of what Dream wants from him, and it’s in Dream’s best interest to keep things that way.

Tommy assumes that he’s Dream’s top priority/nemesis, which he’s assumed for a long, long time, and that Dream’s actions are always calculated with the goal of hurting him. But this is not true. Doomsday, disk finale, his murder in prison, even exile: every one of those things had huge ulterior motives that weren’t actually about hurting Tommy or toying with him. Tommy assumed that all those things were personal, which wasn’t altogether unreasonable since Dream intentionally encouraged this assumption by cackling at him like a movie villain, but Tommy is demonstrably incorrect.

So Dream puts on an act and Tommy buys it and that’s not going to change—because Tommy is traumatized, reasonably, and because the act is useful to Dream. Instead of learning more about Tommy or Dream, or getting anything sincere in terms of development, it’s the same recycled dynamic over and over again: Tommy’s afraid of Dream, Dream puts on his evil voice, and nothing of actual character substance is happening. There’s simply nothing there.

[apple-but-sour]

cc!Technoblade finds c!Tommy annoying and adores c!Tubbo, he is literally me

[mine-curse]

Idk i think c!philza is compleatly right...

c!tommy/fandom neg, im serious, i tried hard to word things nicely but this might come off as kinda insensitive. If you like. Relate really really hard to c!tommy maybe seriously dont read it? Or at least like.. try to read it charitably?

All characters, all rp, not discussing the ccs at all here.

It seems like a lot of people have very visceral reactions to tommy trauma because they relate to him, well i relate a lot to phil as hes been presented so far, so....

Things are not more important than people, they just arent. Symbols are not more important than the thing they are supposed to be symbolizing. I feel like this is such an obvious truth that I was extreamly confused as to why so many people were saying phil's advice was bad.

I understand that the Rapple burning reminded people a lot of Dream's treatment of Tommy during exile, and i think thats where a lot of the "this was bad advice" is coming from. I mean. The timing wasnt great. Doesnt really mean its not good advice. Its also like... the kind of advice you would expect phil to give tommy when you consider what phil has observed of tommy and where his problems seem to come from. Something i think he's expressed multiple times. And it wasnt like phil was trying to intentionally trigger tommy or somthing. I actually think tommy had an unexpectedly underwhelmed reaction given the circumstances. One that highlights the differences of these situations. Dream was doing what he did to keep tommy under his control. To try to remove any sense of power he had by undermining things that he had worked for. To show that it was all pointless to try to make him feel powerless. It was the intent behind the actions that was turbo fucked up. Phil was/is trying to show tommy that he has his own power. That he has the strength to rely on himself. That he doesnt need symbols. That his reliance on them, while understandable, it holding him back and plays a part in making his life worse. That without these symbols the things that made them important will exist. Unless they dont. And that the pain of loosing a thing cannot compair to the pain of loosing a person and how the pain or frustration of loosing a thing will disapate. Something that someone like the immortal "ive watched kingdoms crumble and lost countless friends and also my son" Philza would probably understand.

Also yes burning the rapple was painful on a meta level. I was there for a lot of the Rapple journeys. But it made it a stronger beat in the story to actually destroy something of practical and sentimental value.

I just dont think the take away, regardless of trauma, should be: hold onto things that make you feel (emphasis on feel) safe at the expense of things that can actually improve your situation, ie bonds with people, your own strength. I understand that can be a very hard thing to hear. Trust me i really really do. And Phil's timing might not have been the best but Tommy tends to go in circles, so its somewhat clear, to me at least, that he needs some kind of change.

I guess i just... over the years I think ive thought a lot about posession and ownership and the value people place on external systems. and if there is value or practicality inherent to those ideas. And i think in very very many cases there isnt, or there doesnt need to be, and that they've ended up being a self-perpetuating machine that keeps people thinking they need them. But i understand the emotional implulse to hold on. Because.. our things give us something we can control, something physical thats proof of something. But... none of that is inherently true of objects or external systems, its symbolisim that we assign to them as a way to cope with various things. Cope with traumas that are often caused by those objects and systems !!! And coping is important! I personally am in posession of lots and lots of cope!!! But you've gotta know when you're letting the cope take presedence over things that are truly irreplaceable.

Im gonna be honest, the fact the tommy did hesitate on saving tubbo's life for the disks made him a wildly unlikable dude to me. I get that its out of some kind of trauma, but the other characters are all traumatized, even if its not as apparent as it is in tommy's case. I dunno, i guess it's just a visceral reaction I have to seeing someone consider trading the life of their best friend away for a symbolic object wow 🤪🤪🤪

(I do think Tommy is an interesting character still, i kinda just resent the fandom treatment of him, and of other characters on his behalf without like... thinking about stuff...)

If you all read that here's my interpretation(s) of the furnace thing, as a.. treat..?

I think Phil was trying to give an example of like... shit happens, life moves on, we all keep persisting, its like the circle of life maannn, the cycle of stone break, cobble furnace, stone place, stone break again. Life's a cycle of ups and downs. Which is the kind of thing thats like... true, but hard to say in a way that actually registers because its often repeated. And its hard to see the truth of that when you're in the thick of a trauma response or a bad situation. So trying to give a very physical representation of that kinda makes sense.

For me its also like. Man. Giving advice is hard. You might horribly fuck up and say the wrong thing, not even because thats what you mean but just that your words come out wrong. And its a horrible feeling to let down someone that relies on you. And it can be hard to tell people things in a way they'll understand. Sometimes being a little obtuse feels like the only thing you can really do. Especially if youve already tried the direct approch.

I dunno, thats at least how i see it. I think theres lots of room for other interpretations and like, maybe we'll get some more clarification.

[piningpebbles]

share some manifold thoughts!

anon i will kiss you thank you for this opportunity

c!jack deserves so much better.

that's just a constant truth but right now i mean it in the sense that he is talked at and not listened to.

i hear time and time again that "if jack just told x person what happened everything would be fine" but he has constantly told others how he feels and they don't listen.

you know that "have you seen moana" moment? sure, it's funny but you know what it is again? tommy ignoring everything jack's trying to tell him. here's a little reminder for what he said before that:

> Jack: That’s the problem. All the time, you belittle me, you dismiss me, you drop me in a pool of lava- I’m the only person that tried to visit you in exile and you forget me! Like I’m nothing! And when I finally try to get my own back. I launched nukes at you, and you didn’t even care! … No one’s done that on this server! I’ve built a nuclear program!

jack tells tommy everything he's feeling, all the hurt, everything he's wanted to say for so long. but, tommy brushes it off.

tommy's not even the only one guilty of this!

quackity talks to jack after doomsday (after jack lost his last life), and:

> Quackity: Jack Manifold, you have been neutral this entire time... Jack: Hey, I fought with you guys, alright?

jack lost his last life!! he died fighting for a country he once found home in, and even that went unnoticed. he died for l'manburg and he still gets the wrong presumptions [that he was neutral] made about him.

jack doesn't exist to them, just the idea of who he is.

it doesn't matter if he makes big gestures, he could scream how he feels until his throat bled and it wouldn't mean anything because people don't listen.

> Tommy: You didn't even care!! Jack: Oh my god, I did care!! Tommy: You didn't even care!!

[ivyandtheholly]

c!tommy has flaws ≠ he deserves abuse.

[unlikelytai]

{/dsmp/rp/all c!}

/ exile and c!disc duo's unhealthiness in general

-

I never know how to comment that because addressing c!disc duo is something that I'm nervous about, but I find Dream's voice when talking to Tommy off putting for one simple (and really interesting) reason: that's very close to the tone me and people around me use to scold young children (which in an abuse context is woah, weird)

And most importantly. It works on Tommy. It works because he's rowdy, he's loud. You can't scream to make him hear you - you have to speak low, and he's forced to lower his voice to hear. Kind of like a child.

[klm-zoflorr]

C!Tommy keeps rambling about responsibility, I don't think he knows what that word means. Does he think everyone's responsibility is to baby him and make sure all of the actions they take don't ever hurt his precious feelings?