#camab

[intersexcat-tboy]

Check your sources Plaidos and Korrasera (link) oh my god

I've gone over this before (link), but I'll copy/paste what I've already said as I go through the apparent sources

The Ciba Collections mention "assigned sex of rearing" (1948) in the chapter about about sexual differentiation, with that page being about (CW drawn nude diagrams) Gonadal Dysgenesis (link). It doesn't appear to be discussing trans people at all nor does it use coercive(ly).

The 1965 "source" uses transgender the "same year" it was coined (doubtful), mentions papers from 2007, doesn't use coercive(ly), and clearly states it is the 20th edition—which came out in 2008, unlike the 15th edition which came out in 1965. An archived version of the 15th edition, from the actual publication date of 1965, is available on Internet Archive (link)—it doesn't mention trans people.

The 2002 claim is so easily debunkable it's not even funny. You can read it here (PDF). At the top, one of the first things to be written is "2002 (updated in 2011) from Timtum: A Trans Jew Zine", which originally was published in 1999 by the same author. You can scroll to read the scanned page (29-)31 here (link) (edit, if not, it can be viewed here [link]), CAFAB is not used in the original (nor does it explain how it was coined)

Claudia Johnson (quoted in Cosmopolitan) is a relationship, intimacy, and sex therapist, and I'm unable to decipher how such professions would make her a reliable source on this historical information. There are a lot of claims made, but none of them have or are solid evidence.

The 2015 source admits they do not have a source. A trans woman has already come forward and claimed she coined it around 2009 (link) (original sources listed aren't trustworthy/time stamps aren't accurate, similar to Korasera's post).

AGAB, ASAB, DSAB are all phrases that existed prior to the 2000's. The acronyms didn't just suddenly exist. There was a history of figuring out the wording.

The earliest I could find "the sex they were coercively assigned at birth" was on July 3, 2010

Here is an excerpt from another Livejournal

“Coercively assigned” is another vital neologism [newly coined phrase]. It’s not just more syllables to the word ‘assigned’- which itself made headway against the reified naturalism of one’s birth and its meaning for gender- it is a term with political power that we had to bring into the conversation to illustrate something. Not only is the M or F on our birth certificates an assignment, but it is coerced. Parents cannot say no, (just as many parents could not say no to doctors who wanted to mutilate intersex infants and reconstruct their bodies), and you cannot say no, can you? The term “coercive” adds needed meaning that reveals the truth behind natal nomenclature and assignment: the truth of its constructed nature and its oppressive effects

This was from October 21, 2010

Which blatantly states how the C was newly added

This would be hilarious to me if it weren't something intersexist that people were taking as gospel

[charlie-lottie]

TERF: Transgender people get trans surgery, remove healthy organs, and take hormones. This is bad!

Also TERF, when an intersex child undergoes surgery, they give intersex children hormones, and all this is because they do not fit into the binary system. And these children are not even given a choice:

[irradiate-space]

Quatre, in contrast, has possibly the least tragic past out of all the pilots. Contrary to what he believes, he is not in fact the product of test-tube reproduction (however, his many sisters are). His mother, Katherine, died in childbirth due to complications from living in space affecting the body's ability to give birth safely. As he refers to himself as a test-tube child in the series, it can be assumed his father and sisters never told him about his mother. — Gundam Wiki summary of Mobile Suit Gundam Wing: Episode Zero

A headcanon for examination:

Quatre grows up believing that he's CAMAB, which grates for reasons perhaps related to his family relationships. Once he begins Operation Meteor, he finds brotherhood with the other Gundam pilots — specifically the gendered brotherhood, not a neuter siblinghood — and so comes to view himself as transmasc.

[baeddel-txt]

Genuine question but whats the point in baeddels using the terms "camab" and "cafab?" doesnt it mean the exact same thing as amab and afab? why do they use it?? where did it come from? just genuinely curious

I have no idea where “CAGAB” comes from. The first time I encountered it was on tumblr circa 2010. Prior to that, all I knew was “FAAB” and “MAAB” (fe/male assigned at birth).

There was discourse over the terms “CAMAB” and “CAFAB” back then, with mostly trans radfems arguing that a trans woman coined the terms, and transphobic intersex people arguing that the terms belonged to intersex people. Neither side was able to provide any evidence for their claims. That said, I did do my own research into it at the time and the earliest usage of “CAGAB” I was able to find was from TransTorah in 2002.

(link)

So take that as you will.

That said, as time went by, and this particular discourse became more widespread, most people ended up taking the intersex side. It is from this where “AGAB” and “DGAB” (designated gender at birth) come from.

Initially in the discourse the argument was that endosex trans people could not be “coercively” assigned anything, only intersex people could, as supposedly the “coercively” referred specifically to intersex genital mutilation. People accepted this, and dropped the “C” giving us “AGAB”.

Of course, goalposts move, and so the discourse changed to how endosex trans people cannot be “assigned” a gender, only intersex people can, because, again, of intersex genital mutilation. So that killed “GAAB” and, briefly, “AGAB”. In its place was coined “DGAB”.

People tried to move the goalposts again over “designated”, but people saw what was happening re shifting goalposts, and so this never got any traction. Not to mention how trans radfems were gaining more ground in social justice circles so people were more willing to listen to them now. People instead just continued to argue over “coercively” and “assigned” until the Baeddel Crew broke up. How much of that correlation is causation I know not.

As for why baeddels prefer “CAGAB” over others, well, it’s because the “coercively” connotes that the gendering was forced upon you against your will, it implies violence, which the “assigned” alone does not. There was also some shit about how “AGAB” and “DGAB” are harmful because they lump trans people in with cis people.

(link)

[it-sans]

Tw: surgery & genitalia

Is CAFAB and CAMAB only for intersex people who were forced to have surgeries to binarize their genitalia, or is it for all intersex people?

[imoga-pride]

TheyGAB Flags

TheyMAB Flag

TheyMAB(s): a term reclaimed by some they/them and/or non-binary (C/F/I)AMAB/DMAB individuals.

TheyFAB Flag

TheyFAB(s): a term reclaimed by some they/their and/or nonbinary (C/I/F)AFAB/DFAB people.

I’m not sure if these are considered slurs/derogatory but they are often used as offensive/pejorative.

[varsex-pride]

What is the difference between AFAB/AMAB and CAFAB/CAMAB and DFAB/DMAB ?

I only knew AFAB and AMAB and I guess I'm not up to date with new lgbt terminology

C is coercively, similar to F (FAMAB/FAFAB) which is forcibly. They mean the assignment wasn't consensual. There's also IAFAB/IAMAB, I meaning intersex. Notice how the assignment doesn't dictate one's genital, therefore using AFAB genital to mean vulva excludes some AFAB intersex people, for example. Many point out AFAB/AMAB were originally intersex terms. In my first language (re)assigned is not used, it's called (re)designated. Assignating/assigning can be translated as attributing too. They can all mean the same, but designation (DFAB/DMAB) can be alternatives in English.

[myqueertransformation]

I am coming out. In 2021.

It is December 31, 2020. The last day of a cruel year. A year which equals the COVID-19 pandemic, causing million of deaths. A year with regional and national lockdowns, causing mental problems among the world wide population. 

This year, however, is also a good year for me. I quit drinking and using drugs in 2020. Except for one pack of cigarettes because a semi mental breakdown during the second COVID wave in the Netherlands, I also haven’t smoked. I am planning to continue this in the year 2021. And beyond. 

Being sober also caused some changes. Or perhaps these are not changes at all, but stuff I started to notice about myself. Or better: to acknowledge. 

According to my passport, and other documents, I am a 28 year old male human being. I grew up in a ‘simple’ family. My parents did not go to college. Nobody in my family did. There is nothing wrong with that, but looking back I realize my parents and family lacked a broad worldview. For a long time, this also applied to myself. 

My father was physical and emotional abusive. This is one of the reasons, I think, I started using (or better: abusing) alcohol, nicotine, and later also cocaine, to escape reality. Even when I started to live on myself after attending college, I kept using and abusing to escape reality. The reality of stress, lower than expected grades, bills, financial problems, and the life long feeling of not fitting in.

The vicious circle continued to exist and problems became worse. I was scared to be at home, because I was scared debt collectors would show up. Therefore, I started to drink as early as possible at places other than my home. Until a few years ago, when I, terribly ashamed, looked for help. Within a year and a half I was debt free. 

I also tried to cut down drinking, and especially cocaine usage. While two Dry Januaries were successful, I failed in keeping ‘Dry’. So at the end of 2019 I searched for help. Which I found. After Dry January 2020 I remained dry. 

My overall health improved drastically. And something else also improved: my mind. Everything was so much clearer, for the first time I could sort out my feeling. And then I started to be confused, and at the same time relieved. While, as a white male, having had two different girlfriends, I started to question my sexuality. I noticed I was also interested in men. In fact, I started to remember that since my puberty I had a few romantic and sexual encounters with men. But ashamed as I was in those days, I tried to forget it and I hoped by not remembering it, it also didn’t happen. But this year I remembered those moments, and I acknowledged them. 

I am not straight. But, I am also not gay. I thought for a period that I must be bisexual. But I realized, I don’t care about somebody’s sex. I can fall for someone’s personality, regardless of their gender or sex. 

In 2020 I found out I am Pansexual. 

But my queer adventure just started. I am still learning, evolving, transforming. Today, on December 31, I am almost a full year sober. And since a few days, or weeks, I started to remember, and acknowledge, new stuff. 

Some moments I am extremely sad, because I am finding this out on a later age. I even sometimes think that my life because of this is ruined. What is my life worth, when it can take years from now on before I can truly be myself. On other moments I am relieved, and happy. There are also moments, and I think these thoughts are most present, where I am very afraid to think this is all fake. That somebody would tell me to man up, grow the f- up and stop being weird about it. 

But, while sobering up, my thoughts and my reflection in the mirror became less cloudy and started to become clear. Because of a healthier life, my body hair started to grow faster, and became thicker (or perhaps I just became able to notice this). And to be honest, I don’t like it. I was sad with these masculine traits. 

And then, I also started to remember experiences and thoughts. As a toddler, I was dressing up as a girl, and performing ‘womanly activities’, until I was caught by my dad. Well, he took care of me ‘becoming normal’. A few years later, I still struggled with these feelings, and started to dress up as a girl, while playing with the boy next door. I asked him to not tell his parents, because they would tell my parents. Unfortunately, he could not keep it a secret and, well, it al ended. 

Until recently, I was still feeling ashamed by these moments. I thought I was broken. From my puberty onwards, the feelings of wanting to be in another body kept returning. I kept pushing those feelings away, and promised myself that these were just weird, curious, ‘sexual’ feelings that nobody needed to know about. If I just kept proudly announcing I was a white, male heterosexual, nothing was and could go wrong. ‘I have had a girlfriend!’ I would say. 

But not anymore. I have lived in the shadows for long enough. I kept smiling to other people, like nothing was wrong, while everything was wrong. 

It is December 31, 2020. The internet now knows that I am queer. In 2021 I will know who I am and I will make sure other people will get to know the new me. Or actually, the real me. This queer adventure will be my queer transformation.