#evil nobles

[reine-du-sourire]

You'd expect the Villainous Nobles to have more luxurious vehicular accommodations.

As it is, they get around in a 15-seater van that's older than most of them and clanks/clunks/sputters/rattles loudly enough to drown out much of the inevitable whining over seat disputes.

Diedrich is the only one allowed to drive.

[abybweisse]

Hello abby,

Hope u doing well🤗🤗. . I have two question for you there are in my mind.

1) What do you think UT did in France? Is there a parallel to your mother theory?

2) In addition to Vincent, other companions of his have been seen in a panel, including a woman who has not yet appeared, such as Dietrich. Do you think this woman also plays a role and if so, do you have a parallel or an assumption based on your mother theory?

What's in France?

I don't have enough information (yet) about his business in France or that mystery "evil noble" woman to compare them to anything in particular from Mother3.

He could have set up blood collection centers as far flung as France, at least not too far from the Channel. We have to consider the necessity to transport the blood by natural means, which takes time. He could also be in communication with a surgeon or medical professional in France, who is helping him develop the medical technology he's using. He even could have hidden Druitt away in France, to keep him out of the way but close enough to still help with the medical techniques or technology.

That woman with Vincent and the other "evil nobles" is a great mystery. I suspect she could be Vincent's French connection in his network, but I'm not sure. Since we haven't seen her or the mystery man with the facial scar since our earl's return, it's possible they were involved with the demon cult and have been killed.

[goraesanga2]

Yes,My Lord. Your my king of evil backward world.

[abybweisse]

What if society killed Claudia and Vincent, Rachael, and the phantom hive staff? I know that reapers shouldn’t get involved in humans lives because they are just supposed to reap the souls of the living but what if? It would be the PERFECT punishment for a certain ex reaper *wink *wink -From Rui

Hiya, Rui.

Society? Which part of society?

I theorize that even though some of the aristocrats of evil might have been involved, they would likely have been ordered by the queen and John Brown. In fact, I theorize one of the main killers that day (attack at the manor) would be John Brown. For the reason, I theorize it's for a few reasons... a big one being Vincent's lack of giving the queen the full funding and manpower she requested/demanded for her Tower Bridge project, which was meant to be dedicated to her dead husband, Prince Albert. Another reason could be whatever the "Windsor incident" was that Diedrich and Vincent briefly mention the day Baron Kelvin tries to reintroduce himself.

Harder to say with Claudia/Cloudia's death, since we have yet to see anyone's account of it, but I suspect it was specifically because she gave birth to the children of a reaper. Vincent was born on a Friday the 13th, and Frances/Francis might have also been born on a Friday the 13th. And we know Claudia/Cloudia was killed on one. Manner of death unknown, but it might be similar to Vincent and Rachel.

[abybweisse]

Do you think Tanaka knows that Sebastian is something other than human, aka a demon? And if so, does that mean he is aware of Ciel's contract with him? In his regular (not shrunk) form, he is shown to be very intelligent and observant. Also sorry if this has already been answered in the manga, I'm still trying to fully catch up to the current chapters.

This hasn’t been answered in the manga, but I and others have blogged about it. I don’t think I’ve ever gone too deep into this topic before, so here ya go!

⚠️ long post ⚠️

Personally, I don’t think Tanaka quite knows he’s a demon, no. But he must have some ideas… and a lot of questions.

Tanaka does realize that something is way off about real Ciel. In fact, in ch141, Tanaka is standing right next to real Ciel and Undertaker when this conversation occurs:

Sebastian: I am quite certain you lost your life that night. I would not be here otherwise.

Undertaker: Eureka! Right on the nose, you are… master butler!

Real Ciel: It’s true I died once that day.

Undertaker: What does it matter if he’s alive or dead?

Undertaker then explains that real Ciel’s “reanimated”.

And Tanaka might have overheard part of the previous conversation in ch130, before he had actually stepped out to the stairs and made his presence known to the readers. That goes:

Bard: H-hey. What the hell’s the deal with this guy, Sebastian!?

Real Ciel: Sebastian? I see. So you’re Sebastian. This is the first time we’ve actually met. How dare you do that to me that day.

Sebastian: I too… have never encountered someone like yourself.

So, Tanaka… being the smart guy he really is, regardless of how he’s being portrayed at any given time, has quite possibly gathered enough information to at least get the sense that Sebastian is someone (or something) not quite human.

If he heard the previous conversation, he knows that:

Real Ciel and Sebastian hadn’t actually met before, so real Ciel was already dead, or at least he was near death and no longer conscious. [We are to understand that Sebastian devoured his soul in order to cross over into the human realm, so real Ciel is officially dead by the time Sebastian takes any form before our earl and the cultists.]

However, Sebastian did something to real Ciel’s body. [Again, we know that he devoured real Ciel’s soul, but this could also be about removing the ring from real Ciel’s guts and then starting that fire.]

Sebastian has never encountered such an advanced reanimated corpse before. [Sebastian does go on to question Undertaker about the corpses on the Campania and at Weston, so Tanaka knows the walking and talking corpse he’s serving tea to is not quite like whatever Sebastian dealt with before, when he came back to the manor and was given a “day off”.]

From the conversation he definitely heard, he knows:

Real Ciel died and has been reanimated by Undertaker.

Sebastian would not be “here” if real Ciel had not died.

Tanaka’s main questions that might remain would be about what Sebastian did to real Ciel’s body (but more importantly his soul) the day real Ciel died… and what Sebastian actually means by saying he wouldn’t be here without real Ciel’s death. Would Tanaka realize this has more to do with real Ciel’s soul than his body? That’s the real question we have to ask to figure out whether Tanaka quite gets what’s going down.

Yana-san says in an old tweet that individuals are largely shaped by the people who raise them. Each person has their own dark or evil streak, but whether that becomes a strong part of their personality depends largely on influences by those closest to them in their formative years. She says our earl is greatly influenced by this demon, Sebastian. She also says Vincent loves his family (another tweet, I think) but has a very wide evil streak. Then she says that Vincent was mostly raised by Tanaka, hinting that Tanaka has a dark side we have hardly seen… yet.

Then we have all those demon cultists who are super excited (in ch135) to get their hands on Vincent’s children. The guy selling the kids doesn’t know who they are, otherwise he would have priced them much higher. The buyer recognizes them immediately and, without saying what he knows, says they are worth more than twice that. And then they are recognized by the guy who’s essentially just hosting them at his house before their… um… debut. I’ve written a few times before that the two main cultists (the two men at the sacrificial altar) are — I’m pretty damn sure — the same two guys standing in the background, in ch32, during Baron Kelvin’s memory of trying to talk to Vincent.

These two mysterious guys:

The weirdo who procures the kids for the sacrifice is the same guy who shows up at Kelvin’s manor just to tell him he managed to get those kids. Then grossly says he and the others will make up for Kelvin’s inability to attend. 🤢

Ok, so even if those aren’t the same two guys (but I think so!), Vincent was still being hovered around by people who participate in the occult, including ritualistic orgies and sacrifices to demons, trying to summon them. This is the first (and only) sacrifice to work for that cult, but that doesn’t seem to bother most of them, since (as Sebastian says) most demon cults are just about debauchery.

We don’t know how much of this Vincent ever knew about, let alone ever took part in (I hope not!!), but… I suspect he at least knew about some of it. It was his duty as Queen’s Watchdog to know about such things and keep the general public unawares of it. Not even necessarily to put the practices to an end. He probably allowed his fellow Evil Nobles to do as they pleased… as long as it didn’t become a problem for the crown. Or directly involve his own family. Like, he would never have offered up his own children to these creeps. But random waifs? I think he knew what the cultists were doing (generally) and just… turned a blind eye to it. 😔

You know how our earl stops Vanel and his thugs from selling drugs in England for the Italian mafia… but allows Lau to operate his opium den? Lau works as an informant for our earl, so they have a working relationship. It’s kind of like that, to me. When Vincent is watchdog, he allows some things to happen while stopping others. If it’s getting out of hand with polite society (like deaths amongst the peerage) or causing scandal for the queen, he breaks it up. But if it’s a fellow “evil noble” who acts as an informant or a colleague, and it’s only causing problems for the local riffraff on the streets, then “ok”.

I know that makes Vincent look bad, but… come on. He was the previous earl of Phantomhive and Queen’s Watchdog. He joked to his kids about being quite good with knives and saying hogtying is his specialty. He’s an Evil Noble.

All this tangential info about Vincent and the other Evil Nobles is to get to this: If Vincent knew what was going on with his fellow Evil Nobles, in general, so does Tanaka. Tanaka probably already knew that there were demon cultists amongst the visitors who came in and out of Phantomhive Manor.

But does Tanaka realize that’s how real Ciel died and Sebastian came “here”? If he doesn’t realize it yet, I think he might eventually figure it out. If not on his own, Sebastian might eventually reveal the truth.

If Tanaka does already know… that could be just about the only reason why he has stayed behind at Phantomhive Manor, serving the reanimated corpse of the rightful heir… unless he’s just biding his time to return to our earl’s side… with useful information about real Ciel and the other lords of the stars….

[abybweisse]

hello ,i had this question, since I've read the manga ,like many times ,this got me thinking ,if undertaker managed to get the real ciel's dead body before it turn into ashes in fire and if he cared about * not losing * any other phantomhives ,then why didn't he save the twins before anything happens to them? was it this hard to find the place they were being kept in? if it was ,then how he managed to exactly find there when everything has been done and at last the place is being burnt? then all he does is saving a corpse

Undertaker uninformed

Ever since ch140 came out, with this information:

People have been asking this question… for nearly two years. I’ve received almost this exact ask before… or it has at least come up in a thread on my blog, at some point.

So, I went to my pinned post and clicked the Tagging Masterpost link. Then the chapter link that includes ch140. Brought up a bunch of posts, including this one and this one.

There’s still some confusion over the wording that Undertaker uses — exactly what he means by what he’s saying — but the consensus is that he was delayed in finding out where the twins had been taken… once he realized their remains were not at the manor, along with their parents… and he also might have had issues getting inside once he found them. I’ve previously (just recently, too) suggested he had to wait for the reapers to collect the cultists’ and other sacrificial children’s souls before he could enter to get real Ciel’s body.

Because they would have noticed him and tried to apprehend him. In the Weston arc, he even says he needs to leave before “bothersome” people show up, meaning the reapers who are now actively trying to capture him.

Even if that panel above is just talking about the obstacles of the revival process itself, I’m pretty sure he dealt with numerous obstacles finding out where the twins went and getting to them… whatever was left of them.

We have to remember that, as informed as he is, he’s only got so much access to the sort of information an active reaper would have. He doesn’t have the death lists anymore. Once the Phantomhives were attacked, even that Evil Noble network of informants would have fallen apart. What remained of it wouldn’t have trusted each other, particularly if it was largely turned against the Phantomhive family. They wouldn’t have been willing to tell Undertaker much, assuming they knew he was a strongly loyal backer of the Phantomhives. So, even the attack might have come as a shock to him; the fact it could happen without him knowing about it. The plans were well kept from him, suggesting it probably originated outside/above the level of the Evil Nobles. And any Evil Nobles involved before, during, and after the attack knew not to tell him anything.

For a good month there, Undertaker likely felt more in the dark than he ever had… since he’d been a mere human.

He was emotionally crushed and felt at an utter loss… from when he first found out about the attack and fire… until he finally figured out the twins were in that underground lair. But he still had to wait for an opportunity to get in and out again. To avoid both the other reapers and the demon. Because how do you carry off a body without exposing your presence? You wait until no one is watching anymore. By then, all he could do is collect real Ciel’s body before it burned.

How he finally figured out where to go? What he had to go through to get there and get in? I hope he explains it someday….

[abybweisse]

Hello! You said that Vincent may like manipulative ppl (like Rachel), but like... how did he even see it in Rachel? Don’t these traits usually come up later in relationship? And I don’t think he spent much time courting her before marriage

My headcanon is that her parents were Evil Nobles (though it might have just been a barony or a viscountcy, so marrying into an earldom would be a step or two up), and they (at least her father) hoped Vincent would be willing to marry one of their daughters, particularly Rachel, since she’s older.

We have to remember that it’s her father who introduces them, so he’s likely already connected to the Phantomhives, in some way. Enough to have Vincent’s ear and make a suggestion for Vincent to meet his daughters. And for Vincent to accept.

He was a young earl and a highly eligible bachelor, and he might have even asked around (in his growing network) about young women who might suit as the wife of the Queen’s Watchdog. Might have even seen her at a formal event (like a debutant ball, or something), found out her father’s name, and arranged to meet with him to ask to meet her.

If her family was not in the peerage or not directly associated with the Evil Nobles, then it could be one of those friend of a friend situations.

Either:

He already knew something about her and zoned in on her to see if they had “chemistry”, or

He cut to the chase when they were allowed to discuss anything (in private or not, depending on who was chaperoning) and managed to talk about what he seeks in a wife. Not just his personal checklist but his watchdog checklist, too.

I keep getting reminded that we’ve never seen her mother and have only seen her father once. And then they are gone from the picture. Doesn’t look like they’ve ever spent time with their grandchildren. Already being into the underground scene or in any way associated with the Evil Nobles could explain why they are apparently dead.

I’d be really surprised if her parents made an appearance or even got mentioned again, unless it’s a flashback from Tanaka or Undertaker….

[abybweisse]

in the nursing chapter after rciel leaves the room rachel says: I'm better now after seeing him doing well. and vincent seems concerned when rciel says: I don't need fake brothers. do you think rciel was a normal kid or something was wrong with him?

Good question, and I have blogged about it a little bit before, but it might be hard to find now. The basic tags for it would bring up too many posts that are not specific to this topic.

Slight correction, though: Shouldn’t Rachel be talking about our earl feeling better, not real Ciel?

You know, I am not sure what’s up with real Ciel. However, I suspect that Vincent was a bit concerned about the older twin son who was slated to inherit everything, including his title and role as watchdog. Then again, that role requires a certain amount of “evil”, so perhaps real Ciel would have taken up the mantle quite well... as long as he didn’t give up his birthright just to stick close to his twin.

The comment about not needing fake brothers strikes me as real Ciel’s way of stating that his younger twin brother is all he needs. Why look for fake brothers when you have the real thing (and hope to stay close forever)? It might also be about loyalty. Real Ciel might assume that these fags, these “fake brothers”, would not truly be as loyal/devoted to him as his own real flesh and blood.

All of that said, I should think real Ciel has always had something odd about him. All of the Phantomhives probably do... even the ones not descended from a reaper 😉. Anyone and everyone has an evil streak. With some people, like Kelvin, it can randomly come to the forefront of one’s personality. With the Phantomhive family, it’s... cultivated.