Im rewatching turtles in time/tale of the yokai and
his eyes are so big
so round
(pls ignore the quality I took pictures of my tv 😭)
HIM IN THIS SCENE AHSGDJADGHJASGHDHJAH
HE'S JUST A TINY LITTLE GUY REACHING OUT TO HIS MOMMY
He barely takes his eyes off her for their entire interaction-
He's like a begging puppy asking for her understanding
Also the fact that he's holding his hands in fists near chest level is a sign of tension or anxiety, which means that he's just a nervous little guy!! He's standing right next to the lady who stole his daddy's heart!!
I felt you needed a video of the tiny little hand movements because they didn't need to animate that, but the fact that they did makes it look so natural, and I will NEVER get over their subtle animation choices
For your post about the comic: they would get so protective on behalf of their sensei. They call him that and master as a sign of respect and love and no one shits on the man that did everything he could to protect them and keep them safe as a traumatized single parent.
I know I've said this a million times so I'll put it in meme form for you guys. Let us shake things up a bit. Make it more interesting
Okay I'll stop before someone gets mad at me byeee
Idk if this would be considered an ask or not, but can we address how Leo, Raph and Donnie pretty much ignored Mikey’s concerns about Aprils mom? Like-I’m sorry, but how could you ignore your baby brother, who’s never really been wrong about a bad feeling before like that?
That episode genuinely hurt me, because could you imagine Mikey making these little chirps whenever he tried to talk to his brothers about Aprils mom- and they straight up ignored him. I know their instincts were going crazy hearing those sounds or something.
i seriously need a fic or a quick story of the guys actually listening to Mikey, or how they would’ve had a turtle pile while watching Tv after the whole thing. Idk, I just need Mikey to be cuddled and held so close by his brothers, chirps, churrs, purrs and everything else. His brothers instincts going absolutely crazy-cause they ignored their baby brother like that and he got hurt because of their neglect-
I was very ready to agree with you on this, but I don't?
Don't get me wrong! Just because I disagree with you does NOT make this an invalid opinion, take, or fanfic idea. I welcome anyone to come up in the comment section/reblogs and explain why I'm wrong.
"how can you ignore your baby brother who's never been wrong about a bad feeling like this?" I disagree. He has. He's been wrong multiple times. They list several of the times that he had a wacky-sounding notion in that episode. In other episodes, he very firmly insists on stories about "cottage cheese demons" and "talking cupcakes." (Actually, that might be the same episode.)
We are led to believe from the very first episode that his brothers don't trust his tales in the scene where he tells them about the Kraang. He's been making things up all his life. Only now, their lives have become crazy enough that some of these things are becoming possible.
But they're a bunch of teenage boys. That's something they aren't just going to instinctively know. It's something that they're going to have to learn. And that's exactly what ends up happening.
I think that there are too many fanfics depicting Mikey's statements as "but what if it did happen!" that it's confusing people. If these things are not proven to have happened, then the audience should not assume that they did. And they should not expect the brothers to either.
I haven't seen a lot of fanfics acknowledge the change that his brothers go through from 'entertaining it' or 'not believing him at all' in the early seasons, to giving him the benefit of the doubt in season five, even though they vocalize a list of reasons to be skeptical.
In Wanted: Bebop and Rocksteady, we see a scenario that was common in early seasons. Mikey is freaking out and his brothers are listening to him, not at all convinced due to the reasons behind their doubt. (They always seem to have many reasons, different each time)
BUT, this time, after listing them, they still seem to have their reservations, but they give it consideration. And they check it out.
They don't immediately trust him because (as I have said before) Mikey is an insanely unreliable source. I'd say that he's incorrect 8 out of 10 times when it comes to his fanciful tales. In their early days, it was reasonable to assume he might be wrong. In season five, after all the crazy that they've gone through, they now know it's better to assume there's a chance that he might be right rather than assuming he's dead wrong. It's worth checking out at the very least.
I just can't sit here and blame them for their reactions in the early seasons. There's a popular kids book about a 'kid crying wolf' out there because one human can train other humans to look at them in a certain way. If you have a reputation for 'crying wolf,' then people are going to be less likely to believe you when the wolf arrives.
I really do wish that they had listened to him for their own sakes, but when your brother is insisting that his 'bad vibes' are EXACTLY as real as the time that 'tiny elves stole his nunchucks and replaced them with mozzarella sticks'... Well? I wouldn't believe him either.
I can see Mikey hissing or angrily chittering under his breath in that scene, but I don't see the possibility of him chirping until he ends up with Icecream Kitty later on. (Also, I have a hard time believing that they'd simply ignore him if he was. They probably still wouldn't believe him, but if he was miserable enough to revert to animal instincts, they'd at least be softer towards him about the subject.)
I wouldn't read a fic where they listen to him (because it would feel OOC or like someone is ignoring the source material to make the brothers act in ways that benefit Mikey but aren't realistic to sibling dynamics) since the canon proves that they wouldn't so early on-
BUT I could see an ending where Mikey (being the first one to be ingested) is sicker than the rest of them and is mad at them ("I wouldn't be like this if you'd listened to me!"), which makes them feel guilty, because he's right. Things would have gone differently if they'd listened.
So they make it up to him with a turtle pile/shows/comfort fest where they take care of him to make up for it. And you get your fluff!!
And, of course, if Mikey feels yucky enough to make some sad tiny turtle noises, then his brothers wouldn't be able to resist responding in comforting kind. The instincts gonna instinct ;)
Something something… Raph being openly and enthusiastically supportive of Donnie’s revenge driven homicidal tendencies… something something
*cough cough* Leo knowing exactly what taking a life would do to his little brother’s psyche and being actively scared of the idea but only showing it in the brief moment when his brother is teetering dangerously close to cold-blooded murder *cough cough*
I'm SO so sorry if this is addition is annoying and pedantic and not welcome, if so please feel free to ignore this, obviously you don't have to like rise!splinter if you don't want to regardless of anything and the amount that people act as though rise!splinter being a good parent means 12!splinter must be a bad one makes NO sense at all. It belies a complete lack of engagement with 2012 as a show while also being EXTREMELY unnecessarily hostile towards fellow fans. I very much agree on that point! 12!splinter deserves WAY more respect than he gets from the rise fandom at large. That being said, though, as a rise!splinter enjoyer, I'd like to present an alternate interpretation of the hugs episode thing? The reason why I don't see it as a problem, that is, which you mentioned being confused about. (If that was just rhetorical and you don't actually care why, once again, thats not a problem and please ignore .3.)
In that episode, Splinter needs to return a DVD rental and asks his kids to do it, saying that if they do, they'll get a reward. He clearly has some issues coming up with a proper reward they'd like on the spot, though, since he pauses and stutters a bunch. He starts out by saying "You'll get... HUGS, and then also-", "hugs" obviously just being the first and easiest positive thing he could think of before coming up with an actual reward. We see in other episodes that the family in general is very physically affectionate, they hug a lot, including Splinter; hugs are not actually a special occasion. Despite that, though, he's surprised when the kids don't let him finish presenting an ACTUAL reward, instead jumping at the word "hugs" and immediately going "YEAH WOO HUGS!!!" and leaving instantly. Hugs aren't actually unusual in this family, so Splinter himself didn't actually see hugs as being a proper reward for the task; the kids still TREAT hugs as being a huge and important reward, though, because they're silly lil guys with a huge flair for dramatics and they like hugs. They don't actually need a reason to return the DVD other than not wanting splinter to get a late fee, evidenced by Donnie presenting that as the reason, and getting excited over the promise of physical affection that they would very likely have gotten anyway is in character for them.
I grew up in a very huggy family, myself, and treating "hugs" as a mind-blowing reward for a small task just for fun is something I did a lot as a kid, so I didn't find the concept of that troubling at all when I watched the episode. The way I interpreted it from my own experience, making a big deal out of hugs in this case is less about affection being a thing to be EARNED, so much as it is evidence of physical affection being a way they commonly express love, and them jumping on an excuse to make a big deal out of it. I actually found it really cute how surprised Splinter was that the idea of a hug was enough to motivate them so much, since it meant he didn't realize in that moment just how much his kids do actually love him! The little smile he melts into at the end over it is really sweet.
I can absolutely understand why you and other people wouldn't like rise!splinter; he's frequently an absent parent, he's frequently outright irresponsible, and his kids don't really respect him because of both those things. That being said, though, I believe it is a bit of a mischaracterization to present their family as being starved for his affection. His ATTENTION, absolutely! But they know he loves them, I think, and they love him just as much. Kids don't become as emotionally open as the rise boys are without SOMEONE to model that behavior off of, and even though the rise turtles are LESS sheltered than other iterations have been, they /did/ still grow up as kids of a single parent living in an isolated environment with a maximum of one single friend. Even bad parents, if you believe splinter is one, can manage SOME positive things.
(I only bring this up because I really like talking about the psychology of turtles and splinters and comparing and contrasting different iterations, and I got the impression that that might also be something you might enjoy! If not and you just want to dislike rise!splinter and his stans in peace, please continue doing so. I'm also sorry this is really long and WAY too wordy, I just wanted to be very clear and as nonconfrontational as possible, being in the maybe not-very-smart position of being a person offering a contrary opinion on the internet OTL I really like your fics and all your 2012 takes I've seen are super well thought out and interesting !!)
Everybody look upon Anon's Ask and know that this is exactly how an Ask should be when presenting an argument. It's polite, considerate of my opinions on the matter, but also firm in the stance that stands opposite to mine. No belittling or rude attitude, all concise, contextual arguments, and show-consistent points to explain a different perspective compared to mine. THIS is what I like to see in my inbox.
Like, don't get me wrong, I'm glad fans can find a home to share similar opinions with me. But I'm in this to learn as much as you guys are, and sometimes this requires me to take a step back and look at my beliefs carefully. If I'm never corrected, how will I ever learn I'm wrong?
I stand by my dislike of Rise!Splinter, but I adore that his fans are able to come up into my inbox to explain their perspective like this. Thank you so much, Anon. I know this was probably anxiety-inducing for you to do, and I appreciate your level of respect and tact!
NOW THEN
Anon, in respect for you and your argument, I went back and rewatched the Late Fee episode. I realized as I was reading your argument that I didn't remember that scene very well, so I wanted to make sure that my stance was still one I was able to stand by. (This episode is problematic when it comes to how Rise!Splinter barters hugs.)
I do stand by it. My stance has not changed. Onward!
obviously you don't have to like rise!splinter if you don't want to regardless of anything and the amount that people act as though rise!splinter being a good parent means 12!splinter must be a bad one makes NO sense at all. It belies a complete lack of engagement with 2012 as a show while also being EXTREMELY unnecessarily hostile towards fellow fans.
I appreciate the way you expressed this! When I'm upset about something that a character does, I analyze that character on their own right. I do not pick up another character and compare the two of them to uplift my favorite character. If your character is actually a good person, you don't need someone 'worse' in order to prove it! It's very hostile in a fandom space like this one.
That being said, though, as a rise!splinter enjoyer, I'd like to present an alternate interpretation of the hugs episode thing? The reason why I don't see it as a problem
Again, I'd like to remind the audience that any argument presented is not against Anon. Anon has every right to enjoy Rise!Splinter as a character, and I will never fault that. Continuing!
In that episode, Splinter needs to return a DVD rental and asks his kids to do it, saying that if they do, they'll get a reward. He clearly has some issues coming up with a proper reward they'd like on the spot, though, since he pauses and stutters a bunch. He starts out by saying "You'll get... HUGS, and then also-", "hugs" obviously just being the first and easiest positive thing he could think of before coming up with an actual reward.
The problem with this analysis is that he doesn't stutter when he stays the "hugs" part. He stutters after it. He's not sure what to offer in addition to the hugs. The "hugs" comes with a satisfied smile that tells me it wasn't a grapple for something. It was a dramatic pause for a reveal, something Leo also does. He intended to say it all along.
He said he would "also throw in." Whatever else he gave them was an addition to the thing that he knew they'd want. And he couldn't come up with what else they'd want. Other than the hug.
That's how I have always seen this scene, and I admit that I have a hard time seeing it from your perspective.
We see in other episodes that the family in general is very physically affectionate, they hug a lot, including Splinter; hugs are not actually a special occasion.
I agree that they are very huggy family.
My concern is that it 'not being a special occasion' isn't true, since Mikey spends the entire episode complaining that he'll "never" get a hug from Splinter and "never" get to learn what his whiskers feel like. It could be that he's overexaggerating, but I have a hard time thinking there isn't a real underlying "I won't get a hug from him for a long time if I don't do this" considering how many times he repeats the notion. (And for me, more than once is already too many times.)
An important note: Donnie wanted the hug. Donnie, who avoided the hug with Leo and Mikey in the rottmnt movie, and makes this face when he gets random hugs from his brothers:
Which... Doesn't speak to this being a casual offer. This speaks to it being a special occasion that they are anxious not to miss out on.
Despite that, though, he's surprised when the kids don't let him finish presenting an ACTUAL reward, instead jumping at the word "hugs" and immediately going "YEAH WOO HUGS!!!" and leaving instantly. Hugs aren't actually unusual in this family, so Splinter himself didn't actually see hugs as being a proper reward for the task;
For those trying to keep up, as I said, "hugs" was the intended offer and the 'proper reward' to Splinter, and he was struggling to come up with something else that he could do.
the kids still TREAT hugs as being a huge and important reward, though, because they're silly lil guys with a huge flair for dramatics and they like hugs.
I will give you that. Part of it could be dramatics. But I'm not entirely convinced that the boys being silly goobers means that there aren't underlying issues that cause these reactions.
They don't actually need a reason to return the DVD other than not wanting splinter to get a late fee, evidenced by Donnie presenting that as the reason, and getting excited over the promise of physical affection that they would very likely have gotten anyway is in character for them.
After they have the conversation about hugs in the van, they get out and Mikey says "I forget, what happens if we don't return the DVD before midnight?" Donnie explains the late fee. Raph responds that he thinks they will begin the zombie apocalypse. Then Raph goes. "I don't remember, but we can't afford either. Now let's return this DVD so we can all go home and get HUGS!" and then the boys begin cheering and celebrating the hug again. This does not translate to them caring about the late fee or potential zombie apocalypse.
Their focus is on the hugs. That's the goal the episode is drilling in.
I grew up in a very huggy family, myself, and treating "hugs" as a mind-blowing reward for a small task just for fun is something I did a lot as a kid, so I didn't find the concept of that troubling at all when I watched the episode. The way I interpreted it from my own experience, making a big deal out of hugs in this case is less about affection being a thing to be EARNED, so much as it is evidence of physical affection being a way they commonly express love, and them jumping on an excuse to make a big deal out of it.
I acknowledge your experience and the wholesome memories that it brings to you. Perhaps this is a part of the puzzle that I need in order to see it from your perspective, but I don't have it. I come from a moderately physically affectionate family. If my mother used "hugs" as a way to get me to do something at any point after I was ten, I'd probably ask her for a candy bar instead. Hugs are something that I take when I want (usually before I leave) and then move on.
From that experience, the idea of him offering it and them desperately aiming to earn it concerns me. And I can't just write it off as 'it's a cartoon and exaggerated' because then we wouldn't be allowed to take anything in it seriously. That's not the proper way to analyze media.
I actually found it really cute how surprised Splinter was that the idea of a hug was enough to motivate them so much, since it meant he didn't realize in that moment just how much his kids do actually love him! The little smile he melts into at the end over it is really sweet.
He didn't come off as surprised to me? More content with things
And the fact that he said "I love all my sons" in a transactional hug while forgetting that he only has four sons... Um. I'm not comfortable with a lot about that for a number of different reasons.
I can absolutely understand why you and other people wouldn't like rise!splinter; he's frequently an absent parent, he's frequently outright irresponsible, and his kids don't really respect him because of both those things. That being said, though, I believe it is a bit of a mischaracterization to present their family as being starved for his affection.
I would never say that they were starved for his affection, but I do think that he hasn't raised them to believe that they can just have it. As an example: as teens, we'd go to my dad while he's chilling and be like "can you play this board game with us?" and he'd put down what he's doing and go play with us. I don't think his sons would have the same experiences. I think it's the same thing with hugs.
He uses the physical affection as a means to get them to do something for him. He tells his sons that he loves them after they have completed the task for him. That's not positively reinforcing behavior?
That reinforces "do things for me and I love you."
It's... Concerning. It makes me uncomfortable to watch.
Kids don't become as emotionally open as the rise boys are without SOMEONE to model that behavior off of, and even though the rise turtles are LESS sheltered than other iterations have been, they /did/ still grow up as kids of a single parent living in an isolated environment with a maximum of one single friend. Even bad parents, if you believe splinter is one, can manage SOME positive things.
My concern is that they are allowed to leave the lair whenever they want to and go do whatever they want, and Splinter spends most of the first series knowing absolutely nothing about where they are or who they're around. (Like how they fought Meat Sweats.) I'm guessing they weren't isolated and had more than just April and Splinter to model off of, and that they spent a lot of time mimicking one another. After all, Donnie can go to April's school and talk to people, no problem. She's probably just the only person that they trust for an extended relationship.
Additionally, Raph was confirmed as the parental role model, and he loves physical touch- he's constantly picking up his siblings or hugging them or carrying them. If I had to guess, the rest of them are role modeling off of him and April, and April is role modeling off her parents. Because I can't find canon proof that Splinter spends enough time around them and is that free with physical affection.
Even when they're around him, they're sitting or standing near his chair, sometimes with an armrest between them.
I think Raph's brothers are modeling Raph, and Raph gets the reinforcement he needs to be huggy from them. At least, that's what I've been able to interpret from what I've seen.
(I only bring this up because I really like talking about the psychology of turtles and splinters and comparing and contrasting different iterations, and I got the impression that that might also be something you might enjoy!
It really is! Thank you so much for giving me this chance to explain what I'm seeing and why I feel the way I do! It's perfectly okay if I have not convinced you or changed your mind. I'm just glad to have this chance to check myself and reaffirm why I believe what I do!
If not and you just want to dislike rise!splinter and his stans in peace, please continue doing so.
Alas, this will be my perception going forward. (Not the stans part. Just the Splinter part.) Sorry :(
I'm also sorry this is really long and WAY too wordy, I just wanted to be very clear and as nonconfrontational as possible, being in the maybe not-very-smart position of being a person offering a contrary opinion on the internet OTL
Nahhh, these were some solid takes built on solid contextual consideration! I think you had good reason to think them, and I'm grateful you shared. You definitely gave me some alternate perspectives to consider while I'm going forward.
I really like your fics and all your 2012 takes I've seen are super well thought out and interesting !!)
Aww, thank you, Anon! I'm so glad! And hopefully you follow Mismatched Twins, because that will have some fluffy dad Rise!Splinter moments within it that I'm very proud of. (What? I don't like him. That doesn't mean he isn't canonically caring and wholesome at times.)
I saw that someone commented one of those scammy "u should pay me to draw this" things on your mismatched twins au and it reminded me i actually did draw (silly) fanart for this once on magma
OMFG, am so sorry the episode thing didn’t make sense😭. I’m the one that was talking about season 3 episode 22, cause where I watch TMNT has it like that. I’m talking about “The Fourfold Trap” episode! Again, am sorry the episode thingy or whatever was weird! I promise you, this makes sense I SWEAR! We love bluey blue Leo :)
"I’m rewatching TMNT12 rn, and like, can we just address Leo in season 3, Ep22?? Like his big brother, mother hen, sensei role is in full SWING. Especially when him, Raph & April find Donnie & Mikey, the way Leo deals with Rahzar that boy was ready to kill that dog on SIGHT(Raph too but-). Idk, that whole episode is one of my favs, cause I love seeing Leo be the big brother he is! Not to mention, he’s more concerned for his brothers safety than his own! I love and hate(affectionately) this blue boy so much <3"
<- Putting the Ask here so I can respond to it :3
I-??? NEVER NOTICED HE WAS ABOUT TO STAB THAT MAN IN THE BACK??? LIKE I KNEW LEO KNOCKED RAHZAR DOWN, BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE HE WAS ABOUT TO STICK METAL THROUGH HIS SPINE??- FOOT YOU TOOK HIS BABY BROS, AND NOW HE'S MAD-MAD.
One of the things that we should all love about Leo is that he'll get really annoyed with his brothers for rushing in thoughtlessly to save him (Follow the Leader), but he ALWAYS forgets to take the safe road when a little brother is in reach (Fourfold Trap, Mutant Gangland). He is a moth to a flame. Dangerous? Stupid? Unbelievably risky?
Who cares! His brothers are in there!
Which also disproves this weird idea that the fandom has that he somehow cares more for Karai than his brothers, considering he spent weeks/months crafting the perfected plan to get her out of the Foot base, but when Raph gets taken, he storms the halls IMMEDIATELY.
Even Donnie is like "Shouldn't we make a plan???" and Leo straight goes "forget the plan. Leatherhead, get ready to make a door." YOU GUYS CANNOT UNDERESTIMATE THE AMOUNT OF DESTRUCTION HE WOULD CAUSE IF IT WAS FOR HIS BROTHERS. He has absolutely no impulse control if they are threatened, and that should scare the villains way more than it unreasonably doesn't.
It's hilarious that his solution throughout the episode is just "stab things" though. His brothers are kidnapped? Stab Razhar. Raph is in a hot room? Stab the wall. Mikey is under mutagen? Stab his restraints. Donnie's surrounded by wires? Time for stabby stab!
Obviously that last one was prevented, but the point was that his solution to "my family is in danger" is just: stab things. A lot.
(Wait now I need an analysis of what this means for Owari-)
Also, to your point, now I'm thinking about Leo throwing his entire self under the blades in order for it to push him down to Raph. Like he could have been insanely crushed. Was that really strategic, or was that impulse to get to his brothers? Worth a debate, I think.
Big brother Leo is SUCH a treat to watch, and I wish there was an episode where his brothers are taken, and he tracks them down and beats the remorse into the captor(s) because I think he deserves to show off his mama bear. Indulge in his protective fury.
