what archetype would an sosx 6w7 fit? under the typical 6 archetypes? would they fit the prussian archetype, or the phobic/soft archetype?
Oh wow, this one I’m not actually certain of. From experience alone, I’d say phobic/softer 6. In general, theory tends to suggest that so 6 tends towards the prussian archetype, but in reality I have never personally come across a character (be it irl, in shows, in literature, etc etc) that leans towards prussian 6 archetype wise.
So/sx in general is generally pretty melding with others as a whole and, even with more rigid type combinations such as 6 or 1, tend to be considerably more laid back and fluid. The Prussian archetype just... Doesn’t seem conducive for that combination as a whole? 6w7 so/sx could probably lean Prussian with the addition of a 1 and 3 fix (maybe 2 as well, triple superego almost always yields a type which leans towards the Prussian archetype).
Edit: Realistically, I don’t think so/sx 6 really tends towards any of the 6 categories very well. Cp vs p vs pr/r 6 is often a semi-unnecessary categorization if you understand 6 as being a broad type, however the other ivs are typically far easier to categorize statistically into these categories than so/sx in particular.
Below is a simplified overview of the Enneagram types and their wings, useful for introducing people to the theory objectively -- I tried my best to keep all descriptions unbiased and to-the-point. They should be okay to print, too, depending on the formatting. Translations into other languages are available in the notes.
With that out of the way, the rest is below the cut!
“Gut” Types
Deals w/ anger. Overarching fear is of being controlled, victimized, etc.
Type 1 - Basic desire is to be good, perfect; fears being immoral, defective, and/or controlled by their impulses. Represses “unjust” anger, allows “just” anger to fly. Seeks to help others in a correctional or moral way (1w2), or seeks to be unbothered and stable (1w9).
Type 8 - Basic desire is to be in control of themselves; fears being controlled by anyone, being innocent, or vulnerable. Expresses anger instantly and unapologetically. Seeks stimulation, instant gratification (8w7), or to be grounded and immovable (8w9).
Type 9 - Basic desire is to have inner stability, be at peace; fears conflict, loss, and separation. Represses most or all negative emotions, but especially anger, tending to be “disconnected” or dissociated. Seeks moral goodness, “model child” (9w1), or to maintain and protect their space and people (9w8).
“Heart” Types
Deals w/ shame. Overarching fear is of not being valuable, being unacceptable, etc.
Type 2 - Basic desire is to be loved; fears being unlovable, unwanted. Ashamed of having needs, responds by tending to others needs. Seeks to help and correct, make perfect (2w1), or is “showy” and seeks admiration (2w3).
Type 3 - Basic desire is to feel valuable and worthwhile; fears being worthless. Ashamed of failure and their own flaws, responds by seeking achievement, advancement; tends to be competitive. Seeks to prove to others they are valuable and takes on a ‘mentoring’, interpersonal quality (3w2), or seeks to prove to themselves they are valuable and set themselves apart, be “special” (3w4).
Type 4 - Basic desire is to find their identity and value; fears having no identity or personal significance. Ashamed of themselves, often responds by “taking ownership” of their flaws and focusing on them. Seeks attention and recognition for their uniqueness (4w3) or searches for the “truth” of themselves (4w5).
”Head” Types
Deals w/ fear, insecurity, anxiety. Overarching fear is of being insecure, unable to handle the situation.
Type 5 - Basic desire is to be competent, capable; fears being helpless or incompetent. Avoids facing reality, responds by isolating self, intellectualizing fear and hoarding information/researching as much as they can. Seeks to be left alone and understand themselves (5w4), or to reach out and understand others/the world (5w6).
Type 6 - Basic desire is to have security, support; fears being without support or guidance. Comes in two varieties, phobic (p) and counterphobic (cp); p avoids their fears and seeks security from them, while cp attacks their fears and “goes it alone”. Seeks to research/understand their fears (6w5), or tends seek distractions and run from fears (p6w7)/act spontaneously (cp6w7).
Type 7 - Basic desire is to be content, have their needs fulfilled; fears being deprived, in pain. Runs from and avoids fears, reframes and rationalizes them. Seeks to have security (7wp6)/attacks fears if they must confront them (7wcp6), or is intense, demanding, and forwards (7w8.)
Instinctual Variants
Orientations of looking at the world/finding security in it.
SP (Self-preservation) - Concerned primarily with its own boundaries, reserves, resources (physical and emotional/personal.)
SO/Soc (Social) - Understanding of social hierarchies/spheres, social standing + connections.
SX (“Sexual”) - Instinctive, “gut” pull towards certain people; seeks intensity, a “high”, intimacy.
Synflow vs Contraflow
“Synflows” have balance between the first and second instinct, and one flows naturally into the other. “Contraflows” have a first instinct that blocks or overwhelms the first, making it difficult to balance their needs.
Synflow stackings are sp/so, so/sx, and sx/sp.
SP/SO prioritizes their own boundaries first, and “reaches out” for other people to bolster their own resources.
SO/SX observes the social atmosphere and connects with many people before narrowing down to a few who they “vibe” with or particularly connect to.
SX/SP seeks and thrives off of intensity, but knows how to manage their boundaries, coming and going.
Contraflow stackings are so/sp, sx/so, and sp/sx.
SO/SP observes the social sphere and prioritizes their connections, but often at the expense of their own boundaries and needs.
SX/SO seeks intensity and a “high”, focusing in on one person, but often neglects others as well as their other social connections.
SP/SX maintains their own boundaries/resources to the exclusion of their need to form intimate bonds.
Tritype
You have a “core” type, which primarily manages your coping mechanisms and stress responses and makes up the largest part of your personality. After that, you have one type (a “fix”) from each remaining center — that is, if you have a gut core, you have a head fix and a heart fix. These are ordered based on how much they show up in your personality and/or how much you focus on them. For example, you could be 5w6 core, with a 9 and a 2 fix, both of which have wings and act as somewhat more “muted” versions of that type of it were a core — like shades of color over your personality.
Hi! I was wondering, which are the fundamental differences and fundamental similarities between phobic and cp 6s? Both core fear and behaviour
Both have the same core fears but approach them in different ways. You are lucky in that I have been re-watching Turn: Washington’s Spies, and can contrast a phobic 6w5 for you with another recently typed cp 6w5 - Malcolm X.
Robert Townsend in Turn is a phobic 6w5. HIGHLY logical. Detached. Cautious. An 8 co-operative within Washington’s spy ring calls him ‘nervous.’ Initially, they attempt to recruit him because he often works among the British officers in his inn / tavern, and he refuses because to do so would threaten his personal safety and that of his father. Both of them are Quakers, but Townsend is also 6ish enough to realize self-protection is essential, so he carries a gun. When asked why he joined the Rebels later, he says a man who sits too long on a picket fence “can be impaled on it.” He is not an aggressive risk-taker – on various different occasions when there is a chance of being caught, such as when Benedict Arnold and Captain Simcoe start sniffing about New York for informants, he stops informing / collecting evidence for Washington altogether. He burns his invisible ink and code book and plays it safe. He asks Abe on a couple of occasions if Abe thinks he ‘should run’ for his life. But toward the end of the story, he sees a way to sabotage the British in such a profound way that it could instantly bring down their defenses – and he takes the risk to do it.
Phobic 6s are by no means ‘cowards’ – they are simply those who cautiously take risks and/or want to do so knowing what lies ahead of them – aware of and prepared to take on the risks involved with direct action. Townsend is careful, and wants others to be careful. He’s angry when Abe introduces him to another operative, who sees his face, and anxious when a British officer who knows that Abe is a spy comes to New York and sees them together, because in his mind, that links them and could lead to his arrest / hanging for being a spy. Yet, without his information, Washington would be blind as to British schemes in New York.
Counter-phobic 6s act more like 8s than 6s, although you can tell them apart because the cp6 will crack beneath a real 8′s pressure, and they will be more erratic, risk-taking, and frankly, when backed into a corner, dangerous. 8s are acting out of a place of self-confidence, and cp6s are acting out of a place of central fear, which makes them more volatile and tend to take risks. The cp6 is the 6 who fears snakes, but handles pythons to prove to others they aren’t afraid of snakes. The cp6 is the 6 at work who thinks so and so is out to get them, and defensively leaps into action to make a preemptive strike, having no evidence.
You can see this recklessness in early scenes of Malcolm X, when he battles for ‘dominance’ with another man who wants to take over his ‘group.’ Malcolm X loads bullets in a gun and suggests they play roulette for it, but at the end, you aren’t sure if there are actually bullets in the gun or not. That’s a visual metaphor for the ‘gambling’ Malcolm X does with his life, and with the ‘bravado’ of cp6s in general. If they are angry and determined to prove themselves to you (an actual 8 sees no point in doing that; you aren’t a factor) – they are a cp6. (Another good example is Arya Stark – always angry, always reactive, always volatile, and always with ‘something to prove’ to others).
Malcolm X’s 6ishness, however, shows in his desire to root himself into a group, to which he pays allegiance. He finds his sense of higher purpose in the Black Islam movement, and becomes a devotee to their ways of life, giving up all his former self-indulgences. Yet, being a cp6, he’s not above questioning even the things he holds dear – ultimately, he challenges their leadership on their immoral actions and behaviors, and on their racism, because he sees how color does not matter when it comes to being devout. He made a lot of enemies in his life, but also had the guts to call people out on things – which eventually led to his assassination. Unlike Townsend, he never worked cautiously from the shadows – he shouted his truths from stages, behind pulpits, and on street corners.
Phobic and Counter Phobic 6s don’t look or act alike.
Most CP6s mistype as 8s, but being 6s, they will back down and/or act more unhinged when pushed too far, unlike the steady, “I’m going to apply pressure to you until you give me what I want” gut-energy of the 8.
Kinsey Locke from Netflix’s new Locke & Key is also a cp6. She is angry at herself for hiding under a table with her little brother when a madman broke into the house. She is angry that she is afraid of everything and too fearful to act on it. So she literally goes into her head, beats up her own Fear, wraps it in a bag, and buries it on the grounds of their manor house. She thinks not being afraid will solve all her problems. Instead, it only causes more – without her ‘fear’ (it’s a good analogy) she progressively does more and more risky things to feel alive. She almost gets all her friends drowned in the caves because she thought it would be ‘fun.’ But even Fear-less, she still 6ishly realizes in retrospect that was incredibly stupid of her. She will back down and use her wits when challenged.
do you agree the difference between p6s and cp6s is not their level of agressiveness or how much they stand up for themselves but who they blame when something bad happens? "p6 blames themselves, cp6 blames others/fate". i do more the cp6 one but i'm so unagressive and i'm confused bc i always read cp6s always hide their fear with anger so much they seem 8s. i deny my fear like a cp6 but i don't hide it with anger. what do you think?
I don't know what to tell you, bro, you are just a 6. Why does it matter if cp6 or p6? Just chose what you vibe with, if you insist on the distinction. It's only a label for personalization in the end and the actual divide between cp6/p6 doesn't exist. If you're not obviously cp or p then don't overthink it and pick one, or none. It's not like it matters. Some posts delude you into thinking there are two separate and defined subtypes of 6 but it's not true, those are strategies, not subtypes, and overthinking it is useless. There is no set of criteria you must meet to be either p or cp. 6s can relate to both or either of those things.
In your case, why would you consider labeling yourself as cp6 if you think you are "so unaggressive." Like, literally, what does it add to your typing. When someone sees "cp6" they immediately think "this 6 has enough aggressivity and assertiveness to let it be known." At least accoridng to their personal opinion. Cp6s blame others/p6s blame themselves isn't anything meaningful.
What is your attitude towards most authority figures? Do you easily find solace in belonging to a group or system that guides you, or do you cynically shun them left and right? Do you counterattack people too quickly while assuming theyre out to get you? Do people tell you you come off as antagonistic, draining, argumentative and prickly? do you keep people at an arm's length or do you avoid rejecting them because you want to make more allies than enemies? Obviously a cp6 is expected to be more prone to errupting in anger and acting like an 8 than a p6 who would be too anxious to do that. That's an undeniable difference, although it's not the only thing that can make them different. A cp6 with an 8 fix would do that but what about a cp6 with a 1 or 9 fix? sx dom 6s are supposedly more likely to be cp6s but some of them chose to embody the "feminine" phobic side of 6 instead and are thus the opposite of cp.
I tend to have the 8-like anger displays when pushed enough, and often my cp side wins out during conflict, and i tend to create said conflict, but often I place the blame on myself when things go wrong.
Don't overthink it. If you're a complacent person who doesn't go feral on people or things then why would you even try to label yourself as cp?
I remember reading a post somewhere saying that the main difference between these two is that the 459 is very independent whereas the 469 is very very not. I can't find the original post, but I want to address this.
The 459 certainly is very independent, being the most withdrawn type. But this can vary to some degree. A 4w3 5w6 9w1 so/sx will probably be the least independent of the tritype, although still would be very independent. The 4w5 5w4 9w8 the most independent and erasures of this tritype.
As for the 469, I think this vary a lot more than the 459. 4w3 6w7 9w1 so/sx will be very dependant, especially with the 6 in charge. Whereas a 4w5 cp6w5 9w8 sp/sx will still need people and reassurance, but a lot less of it, especially if the 6w5 is at the bottom. The 6w5 has a very do-it-yourself attitude, along with the take it or leave it mentality of the 4w5 and more balance nature of the 9w8. Even more so if they are introverted, which is likely.
I felt like I should say something as it did not align with my experience. I'm 9w1 4w5 p6w5, so with the low 6w5 and the closeness to the 149 and 459 I'm a much more self critical, withdrawn and independent seeker.
Then how do we tell 459 and 469 apart? At the end of the day the 469, no matter how many 5 wings, needs the reassurance of others. They can't be to sure of their own judgement, they fear get anything wrong especially when they have company. 469 may say a lot of things like "I thought maybe", "it could be", "that's what I thinking so far, but I'm not too sure," "I imagine," "I'm not too certain, but," "just an idea I had, I'm not too sure of it," and if they can they will phrase the things they want to say as questions instead of statements. If you don't do this you probably don't have a p6. I'm not too sure if cp6 would act that way, they are unlikely for this tritype and it's kinda hard to imagine the 9 with 6cp.
From what you wrote about Dany it seems like Six’s can lose the security they crave by their own actions and reactions . How would a phobic six act differently than Dany and potentially lose what makes them feel secure?
Counter phobic 6s attack what they are afraid of, in an effort to convince themselves and others they aren’t afraid. Picture someone terrified of snakes insisting they aren’t and knocking on the glass at the zoo to “prove it.” You can always tell a real or fictional 6 by their need to convince others. Like Theon.
CP6s often mistype as 8s, but the difference is 8s are calm and self-assured. They don’t need you to accept them, just do what they say. The cp6 craves approval, so they will go out of their way to convince you to see them a certain way. Dany is far less calm and composed than she pretends to be.
A phobic 6 would not be so quick to burn her bridges. They would withdraw to think and re-assess situations, avoid direct confrontations, and only assert themselves strongly when directly attacked and forced into a corner. They do not “bring the fight to you,” they find a defensive position and react with anxiety when challenged. Phobic 6s will walk away rather than fight.
If Dany were more phobic, she would not treat Tyrion with such disdain and open condemnation for his mistakes, because a phobic 6 understands making mistakes and taking responsibility for them. A phobic 6 would recognize his value and want to keep him close and convinced of their goodness. The phobic 6 would take a more benevolent approach with her enemies – choosing to create allies rather than use force to crush people into submission. They would be less intensely driven to seek power, because power means bringing yourself into the limelight where many people might want to see you dead.
If the cp6′s main flaw is aggression and violence, the phobic 6′s main flaw is not standing up for themselves enough. The phobic 6 also does not like to confront their fears, which means they have a greater hold over them. They are less likely to take their own initiative and rely on others to push them into situations where they have no choice but to learn to trust themselves. Since this is intimidating for the phobic 6, they try and avoid those situations at all costs – until they learn about BEING a phobic 6, realize that their fears are largely irrational (they are no less capable than anyone else to make decisions or to succeed on their own power) and actively work toward independence.
Phobic 6s lose their security by becoming inert – if you rely on everyone else, they will all leave you – they move away, or die off, or sense the 6′s neediness. 6′s tend to mellow with age, though. The older they get, the more life they have gone through and the more they have proven to themselves they can stay calm and rational in a crisis, and can think logically under pressure.
The temptation for the 6 is emotional detachment. Since they are head types, and “withdraw” from situations in order to analyze it, this can come across to their friends and loved ones as “non-investment” or refusal to emotionally engage. Like Dany, when Jon tells her this incredibly troubling thing that is clearly tormenting him because of what it means for their romantic relationship, and she doesn’t even seem to care on an emotional level. You can see her disengage. It becomes about his claim to power, not about their feelings for each other. Even if she loves him, she told Sansa – not Jon. And you can tell that bothers him a lot. Maybe even scares him.
Phobic 6s think emotional vulnerability is scary. You let people close, they hurt you. They abandon you. They are not there when you need them most. 6′s are always testing people. Finding out if they can trust them. Collecting internal files full of information that help the 6 know whether to stay close to this person or not. The more they get to know you and find you “safe” (someone they can be honest with), the more those walls come down – but they will stay up if you show them they cannot trust you. Being on the other end of this must be hard. It must feel like a constant low-level prodding, a testing… like they are soaking up info about you but never sharing in return. Just enough to keep you there. But their inner self is unreachable, hidden behind a “problem-solving” level of detachment. If all you saw was that, you’d assume they don’t love you.
So, since for 6s there's a rule of thumb that people tend use that says there's increased odds of them being mainly phobic if they're a 6 sp or have a 9-fix and increased odds of being counterphobic if they're a 6 sx or have an 8-fix, would you expect that a 6 sx with a 9-fix to be more 50-50 overall presentation of phobic vs counterphobic regardless of image fix? If not, what would you expect?
Most official sources say 6′s waffle between being phobic and counter phobic based on their emotional threshold and are not one or the other all the time; but you lean more toward one. To determine which, look at whether you withdraw more from conflict and threats to regroup (and remain rational, though fearful) or whether you rush into a problem head-long determined to “end” it there and now (becoming more emotionally driven, but still motivated by fear).
A lot of the sx6 descriptions sound more like cp6, which isn’t the case with sx6 – sx6 is about being appealing enough to attract a protector / mate and quelling your fear of being alone by finding a partner. So, I’d say find your motives (if that’s one, and you are the type of person to base all your quelling of anxieties in having/finding a significant other) and then look at your tendencies to determine cp or p 6.
