It’s not about Right or Wrong
The biggest raging debate in the RWBY community is: who is right? The lines are clearly split between team RWBY and co, and Ironwood, with many feeling that RWBY is being wrong and hypocritical. It is amazing to see that people are missing the point.
Neither are wrong or right. They are both being human—and actually, team RWBY is being more human that Ironwood right now. This is on par with Magneto and Professor X from X-men. Their goals are the same, but they are following vastly different paths towards that goal and their ideals are completely different based on their own experiences.
I have done a whole expo on Ironwood and I don’t think I need to add to that. But I do want to look at RWBY’s perspective in this.
One thing that has been established is that team RWBY and the others are in the same boat as Ozpin: they want to protect the PEOPLE, and not just a few. They have come to view life as precious and are not willing to throw it aside as the only way. A lot of people cite the Apathy messing with their reaction to Jinn’s reveal of the truth, but they were too far from the farm town for that to happen just yet. Their reactions were genuine—and human, but they did not let their emotions completely destroy their belief in saving people. That was why they all signed up to be hunters and huntress: to make the world better.
All of them have had their trust shattered and faced betrayal by people very dear to them, or by people whom they never would have expected. Ruby saw a supposed huntress-in-training destroy her home, unleash Grimm all over Beacon, and kill one of her friends in cold blood. Yang’s mother abandoned her, and later sided with the bad guys to get the relic, and Blake did abandon her at one point (seems like they are still working through that). Poor Blake has been betrayed by her lover and her best friend. Qrow’s experiences are probably uncountable, but his sister was probably a big one. The biggest one we have for team JNPR is Pyrrha’s death, caused by same reasons and Ozpin. So to call them children, or naïve, is a disservice to what they have already endured up to this point. They are still learning, bu they are no longer children, nor are they naïve.
The headmaster at Haven was the final straw to break any illusions in that. They trusted him, as did Qrow, up until things started falling into place. By the time they get to Atlas, face off with a pompous official, and nearly die a few times, they get it. The world is not perfect, it isn’t a fairy tail, and they can not trust everyone. But they want to. They really want to trust Ironwood, to have someone with experience in being an authority take the reigns and let them have a break.
When the team arrive in Atlas, they discover that there is a military-enforced curfew. People are afraid, hungry, miserable, and restless. That would be my FIRST red flag that something is not right with the person in charge. If you want to know what kind of person you are dealing with, look at the people around them and the consequence of their actions. Ironwood said he wanted to help protect the people, but how was he SHOWING that?
What makes things even more conflicting is that Ruby and Yang remember the General as someone who supported them and encouraged them: he praised Ruby during Dance Dance, somewhat tried to listen to Yang after her encounter in V3 and even sent her a new arm. But the town was not how it should be, even Weiss commented on how this “wasn’t right.” In other words, it had never been like this before. The people had freedom to move around and no curfew, no binge drinking in the streets, etc. How is this protecting the people?
Ironwood greets them as a host—but it seems off. Him hugging Qrow, for one. Qrow and he were always at each other’s throats for differences of opinions. I admit, he probably was glad to see a familiar face, but…
In any case, Ironwood gave them a LOT of things. Made them official hunters and huntresses, top of the line training grounds, returning the lamp to them. He assigns them to his Right-hand Yes-men, not to earn trust, but to sway them. The Ace-Corps is always talking about how they need to follow orders, that emotional connections and such are unnecessary, etc. Did you see the reaction from RWBY and team? Winter is also in on this as well, but we see this mostly with Penny. Weiss has already heard all this before during her training to control her semblance, after all. Ironwood was a wonderful host who was trying to lure them into his side with “gifts of gold and jewels”. But he would never listen to them. He would not consider their ideas, opinions or fears, and the people were still suffering. And THEN they meet Robin, who gives them a little bit more of the picture. Why isn’t the wall being repaired to protect the people? Why all the secrecy? They kind of understand, but things are not adding up.
You see, a long time ago, in Volume 3, Ironwood gave them a choice. Fight to protect your school, or protect yourselves. The teams are starting to see that Ironwood is leaning more to the latter, and it bothers them. We are seeing a dynamic clash of perspectives here, and Ren acts as the gateway to show how both sides could be right.
But here is the thing. Here is where we talk about why it isn’t about right or wrong, but about being human. In Volume 3, Ozpin shows both remorse and apprehension about utilizing Pyrrha as a guinea pig to possibly save the powers of the Maiden from the corrupt hands of Cinder. He weighs everything meticulously, admits to his faults, and you can see the burden of time on him.
Ruby and her teammates also show this same heavy burden. They are conflicted about the hard choices they have to make, talking to each other and trying to figure it out. They don’t try to justify it, either. They WANT to trust and tell him, but experience has been a cruel teacher to them. Weiss and Penny show true human feelings about what the plan is for the Winter Maiden, especially Penny. They have always recognized and felt that just because it was logical did not make it the best path, or even the right path. They questioned it, but they were always shut down.
Ironwood has no qualms about this. He does not show remorse, he does not show apprehension. He had walled up his heart a long time ago. He says do it and he expects his soldiers to comply. And none of them can speak up against him, despite their feelings. They try to crush their own emotions as well. 1 death? 1000 deaths? The general ordered it, so be it. They have fallen to the mantra of “the greater good”. What is really interesting is, in a real world sense, there have been some studies that suggest that emotions are CRITICAL in making logical decisions. Too much logic and reason without the support of emotion tends to make things worse, actually. Spock was proven wrong many times in Star Trek, despite his “logic”, and this was also explored in that movie “I Robot” where the Robot logically chose Smith over the little girl, even though emotionally and species-wise, the little girl would have been the more appropriate choice to save. I love how in this volume, they really outline how useless logic is without emotion, and they use Penny as a pillar for that exploration. Anyway...
People will say that Ruby should have told him earlier, before things got out of hand. Based on previous evidence in an earlier post, I can guarantee the result would not have been any different. He had already written off half the world. And the funny thing is, the only result would have been a brief window of safety for himself and maybe those closest to him. None of his actions would have saved the world or many people, only a select few.
As team RWBY began to understand this, see it play out, it was too late. He had already cut off most of Mantle and was preparing to sacrifice them. For the “greater good” of course. The fact that Ironwood had NO intention of talking to Robin in any way showed more of how untrustworthy he was. Robin was fighting for the people with the knowledge she had. She would have been an invaluable ally to them and would have been able to help in managing the people and the resources. But Ironwood knew that he would never be able to control her. She would question his authority. He can not have that. That is why Yang and Blake disobeyed him. They had presented this possibility, and he had shot them down like a bullet train. He was keeping his secrets until HE was ready to release them. Any loss of control was unacceptable to him.
If it hadn’t been for Penny, Winter or Cinder would have gotten the powers. Winter would have been nothing but a puppet for Ironwood and would eventually be responsible for more deaths under his watch. We already know what Cinder would do.
I will be honest. Had I been in Team RWBY’s shoes, I would have done the same thing. I wouldn’t have told him until he proved that he was trustworthy. Kicking the people down like he had been doing since before we came would make me less likely to trust him. The fact that he could have had a very good ally, but he wouldn’t accept it at all would also make me hesitate. Anyone giving me all this good stuff--upgrades, licenses, etc—for almost no reason would make me question their motives.
But RWBY not telling Ironwood is no worse than him not telling him many things. He did not share all of his plans, only the highlights. Enough to keep them content. We all have to be mindful of the words we say and to whom we tell them to. And RWBY technically did not lie to Ironwood. It was a small scene, but the point where Nora and Ruby were discussing the possibility that she might be killable in another sense from Ozpin’s question means that they haven’t lost hope yet. They believe that they will find a way, somehow, but they do not know where to start. There is also the fact that they know Ozpin has been fighting this for a long time, and somewhere in his past he might have tried some of these things. If he isn’t doing that now, it was probably for a reason. Team RWBY are not as dumb as people would like them to be, and they are being cautious, which is a necessity in these situations.
If they had come out and said that they would do everything they could to kill Salem, etc—THAT might be lying, but they didn’t. They just asked how they could help him.
Fear is a cruel master. Team RWBY have worked through some of their fears, and part of that was probably thanks to the Apathy that magnified their emotions and doubts. Ironwood has allowed his fears to consume him.
And by the way, Ironwood did mention how sometimes certain things still held you from long ago during his pep-talk with Yang after she was framed for busting Mercury’s legs. Something tells me that was a precursor for this as well.
Anyway, those are my thoughts on that.
