#robert berens

[azirastars]

cas thinking “still beautiful, still dean winchester”right before confessing his love to dean is batshit insane and i love it. robert berens come here im kissing you on the mouth

[mypeopleskillzarerusty]

[sweetonsugden]

Misha answering the Destiel question

[hettolandija]

Why do the actors and writers give so many weird and contradictory statements about destiel? How can the actors validate fan POV by saying that "you can ship what you like", but at the same time insist that Dean is straight? Despite everything that happened on the show? A lot of people who are wondering about that, are forgetting that the actors are not necessarily telling what they think, but rather what they are allowed to say.

When SPN was filmed, the actors may have suggested small changes in the dialogue, but they were not writing the show. They had no control over the plot, but still were put out there to do interviews and promote the show, and collect eventual backlash from unsatisfied fans. The writers were not writing whatever they wanted, but had to abide to what the showrunners, the producers and, above all, what the studio allowed. And Warner Bros. said no to mutual canon destiel. Back in 2013 Chad Kennedy (WB executive) said that all leading characters on SPN are straight. And that stayed as the official company line to this day. That’s why everyone is still denying that Dean had any romantic feelings towards Cas. With Castiel one can argue that he is not the main lead, because he has less screen time than Sam and Dean, so he can be not straight, but still his confession scene was written ambiguously enough to allow many people to interpret it as a platonic one. And many of them did.

Why was the confession written ambiguously? Because if Cas has romantic feelings for Dean, then the most natural question will be asking about Dean's feelings, and the WB can't have people questioning Dean's sexuality (why WB is so rigid about their characters is unknown to me yet).

After Nov 5, 2020 many respectable news outlets were writing about destiel (examples here). We know that Cas' confession in 15x18 was the first thing Berens wrote when coming into the writers' room for season 15, so it seems to be an important part of the show and the last season in general, but did anyone from the press interview Jensen on Dean's feelings? I don't recall. The best they could do was to allow Jensen shortly talk about The Handprint in a scene euphemistically described as "Castiel's Goodbye Scene". Variety will do an interview with Jared and ask him about the blurry wife, but asking about a big arc of season 15, that is the Dean and Castiel's relationship a no-go zone. Some journalist will even admit that, in the past, they were forbidden from asking questions about destiel when interviewing actors, and it seems to be true even today.

The WB generally does not pay much attention to what actors are saying during conventions - unless that info reaches the media (that's why Jensen often seems to be pro-destiel during autos and photo OP, but avoids talking about it at panels - he knows that these will be recorded and put on the internet). In 2021 Misha was a little too loud about Castiel’s confession being a “homosexual declaration of love”, WB got mad, and then at Denver con Misha had to backtrack his previous statements and Castiel’s confession was “open for interpretation”.

Generally, during panels, everyone can make jokes about “the gay angel”, but the moment when someone seriously asks about Dean’s feelings, everyone changes topic or talks nonsense, like: “it’s not a show about heterosexuality or non-binary ” or “Cas is an angel so he is able to love a level and on a plane that- that human emotion doesn’t necessarily comprehend” (notice how that one still is not addressing Dean’s feeling in that moment) or “Dean was accepting Castiel’s confession like a parent accepting coming out of a family member”.

Misha at one panel said that during confession “Cas saw love in Dean’s eyes.” but notice how he didn’t specify if this was romantic or platonic love and how he didn’t say "in love” - because officially he isn't allowed to say that Dean was in love with Cas. And neither is Jensen.

During conventions Jensen can't say things like "I interpret Dean as bi, but in the show he is intended as straight". Imagine the pandemonium if that got out to the press. The WB would kill him. So he sticks to saying, that he interprets Dean as straight, but the fans can interpret Dean as they want. (Is this his genuine opinion or is he only presenting the company line because he has to? We will probably never know)

Robert Berens, Misha and everyone will say that only in season 15 they were writing Castiel as being in love with Dean (again, no one mentions Dean’s feelings), and stuff from previous seasons that can be interpreted as a sign of romantic feelings? According to Berens (and others), just a coincidence. All of that despite Brens writing himself in 10x17 that Cas is Dean’s Colette. Berens wrote Cain saying that Dean is living his life in reverse:

So for Cain the killing order is: Abel, Colette, the rest of his family. And for Dean the killing order would be: Crowley, Castiel, Sam. (also Cain’s story ends with him being killed, and Dean starts this season with being back from the dead). From a conversation in 10x17 between Dean and Crowley, we know that for Dean, the blood isn’t the deciding factor for counting someone as family. In episode 10x02 Dean pushed Crowley on the floor and later in the episode wanted to kill him for ratting him to Sam (in 10x14 they are still not on completely friendly terms). In episode 10x22 Dean will beat Castiel and will be tempted to kill him. In episode 10x23 Dean will beat Sam and will be tempted to kill him.

All of this happened across multiple episodes, written by different writers, so it must have been coordinated by the showrunner.

And at the end, the most damning evidence, that Dean was in love with Cas, but no one is able to officially admit it: in 15x19 Lucifer is impersonating Cas, so Dean would let him in to the bunker. This is episode written by the Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner duo, so I doubt that this was their idea. Also Lucifer impersonating a dead love interest is a thing that is consistent across multiple SEASONS, so I would assume that it was something that was heavily talked about in the writers room.

[deancasforcutie]

give Dean a minute he just needed to hear some good people's love and support to absorb the enormity

[dotthings]

Jensen “I didn’t play it that way but hey fan interpretations are cool” Ackles

and

Robert “oops I tripped and queer subtext accidentally fell out of my pockets it wasn’t intended to be romantic but hey fan interpretations are cool” Berens

I am not shading either one, ftr. What I believe is that whatever anyone at spn did unconsciously, or by accident, or in terms of purposeful queer coding, nobody would be able to say “oh yes we meant for that to seem romantic and we were purposefully putting in queer coding to get around corporate censorship.” SPN creatives can’t admit to it even if they wanted to, because of the caps corporate put on Dean.

It is actually a HUGE deal that Cas’s confession got greenlit. That was the big change in the last season. Not because queer coding or implications didn’t exist before, but that was the very first time in the entire run there was a snowball’s chance of hell of getting it openly acknowledged from either side, and the wall opened only for Cas. Not Dean.

Some people should be going at lot harder about corporate.

It’s funny how the destiel lane was so loud about that after 15.20 and there was tons of discourse about corporate slamming down limits, while letting Cas’s confession through was a breakthrough. But now a bunch of people have conveniently forgotten the corporate overlords exist and forgotten the realities of the situation. Where creatives can’t talk openly about it. None of them. They can talk about how great queer readings on the text are and that’s it.

We’ll see if that changes at some point but I’m feeing pretty sure that is where it’s going to live.

The acknowledgement and welcome to fan lenses is the ceiling in terms of validation, and it’s not intended to be an insult or patronizing, nor is it homophobic on their part when they cannot, in fact, offer more than that. They cannot confirm bi Dean. They can only talk in terms of interpretation and fandom lenses.

And it seems odd to me how some people tried to weaponize Bobo’s words against Jensen, like “suck it Jensen!!!” omg seriously?? Because in its essence it is very similar and even Bobo could only go as far as “yay isn’t fan interpretation neat!!” (I’m not saying that they are the same, but when the bare bones of what’s being said are essentially similar, weaponizing Bobo’s words against Jensen’s when they’re sitting in the same general zip code, in essence, is just grudgewanking)

Instead of misdirecting that rage, print this logo out. Hang it on the wall. Throw darts at it.

[imaginaryprotagonist]

If you haven't listened to the 9x06 episode of SPN Then and Now then please, I beg of you, DO IT IMMEDIATELY!

Absolute king Bobo Berens gives an A+ interview, talking about the Destiel of it all, queer subtext, his development as the fandom's sleeper agent, and oh so much more!

IT'S THE PODCAST EPISODE WE DESERVE MY FINE DESTIEL FRIENDS

[sailorsally]

ben edlund, bobo berens and robbie thompson walk into a bar ...

the bartender is dean winchester and he's getting rawed by castiel right there on the counter