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If you’re familiar with Schaffrillas, what are your thoughts on his take about HTTYD 2 being the weakest one and that 3 was stronger?

It pissed me off tbh.

VERY long post ahead.

That logic only works when you're looking from the End to the beginning, but even then you need to really try hard to see how it makes sense. If you consider the actual finale first, then the middle would make no sense. And Schaff said it himself, that with THW ending in mind, then the rest doesn't make sense, but that's not how things work. Cause the ending of THW DOESN'T make sense to the rest of the franchise. Dean clearly didn't know how to connect the 3 movies and totally retconned so much stuff to try and justify previous events. Some examples:

-Stoick knowing about the HW and being obsessed with it, and never mentioning it, plus going after the NEST instead of the supposed HW that contains all dragons. You'd think if you wanna permanent solution for ur Dragon problem on Berk, you'd go to the actual sourse huh??

-Grimmel EXISTING. Just him existing makes no sense. Cause him being THE known Night Fury Killer was never mentioned and therefor, him knowing Stoick also doesnt make sense sine in HTTYD1 NO ONE knew anything about Night Furies, You'd think that Grimmel being this famous person with SO MUCH INFO on Night Furies, wouldn't share that knowledge? specially since he was famous? People would ASK him to deal with Night Furies in their own islands, again another retcon that pisses me off.

-Dragons being treated as pets instead of sentient beings that have their own culture, habits, traditions and rituals. And therefore it gaslights u into thinking that the first movie was bad actually since Hiccup "chained" Toothless to him and it was not his own choice because of their bond, and THEREFOR they NEED to get separated

More examples in this post (and these are just within THW)

If you see the franchise THAT way you MAY be able to justify things but that's not how I view things.

Like I love Schaff and all his reviews but this one in particular genuinely shocked me... cause how can u justify SO MANY inconsistencies?? When it's CLEAR to me that Dean didn't have an actual plan for the third movie after the 2nd. Yes, he KNEW it was gonna be a trilogy but mf lied his ass off when he said "Drago was gonna come back, everything will make sense and HTTYD2 is the bridge for 1-3" cause no? HTTYD3 and 2 seem to not be connected at ALL but in a few instances: Their designs and Valka just being there instead of Stoick. Cause thematically, tonally, narratively? they couldn't be more apart. Again with that logic then yeah I see why Schaff would say HTTYD2 is not necessary. It's a dumb way to look at things but ok...

Now I'll pick apart some key critiques he had:

Most if his critiques are to me passable cause they're not really critiques, it's some things about the pacing and Valka appearing which fine I guess but dude if you have a problem with THOSE HOW are u not pissed off at all the rectons and pacing of the third one?? cause in WHAT WORLD is THW better at that??' Also saying Valka doesn't have an important presence in the story is just straight up WRONG. like HUH????! She's literally Hiccup's HALF, how his inner conflict about who he is, dragon protector or chief, which DOES get resolved at the end. not to mention if you're pissed about how she "didn't have presence in HTTYD2"!?!? LIKE YOU KNOW WHERE SHE DOESN'T HAVE PRESENCE LIKE AT ALL??? EVEN LESS??' IN HTTYD3!!!!!!!!!!!! She's legit BARELY THERE, all that she was in the second one is absolutely GONE -_____- We don't see Stoick's impact on her or how she reintegrated herself in society, how much has changed since she left, etc

Then he talks about Stoick's death and his character which again, HTTYD3 fails to mention or give any sort of impact so like MANY ppl that were HOPING to see that in the third movie, taking it out on HTTYD2 when they gave us THE most impactful scene in the franchise (yes even more than the "separation") is blaming it on the wrong thing..... And again, saying BOTH their parents aren't important to the story in HTTYD2 is just blatantly wrong. When they BOTH were supposed to represents the WORLDS Hiccup was supposed to unite. Vikings and Dragons, like thematically? that was done perfectly. And THW just ruined it all.

HTTYD3 was supposed to give us closure.. to give TOOTHLESS closure, if ANYTHING was gonna test Toothless and Hiccup's friendship in the third one was the aftermath of Stoick's death. But it wasn't. It's never mentioned it again, it didn't put a SINGLE stain in their relationship, it was just forgotten. We also don't see Hiccup's struggle with this failure AND his determination to keep going, it happens IN the second one a little briefly (again pacing issues that could be overlooked) but that's NOT on HTTYD2, it's on TWH 's FAILURE to address it cause THAT was supposed to be Dean's plan, he said it was going to make sense at the end but it didn't. We could've explored ALL that in the TWH to make it seamless but they just didn't...

Like it seems like most of his criticisms of the Second movie rely mostly on the fact that the consequences of events never got addressed but at this point, it was already on stone that it was gonna be a trilogy and those things (like Drago) WERE going to be addressed. By that point we all knew it was gonna be a trilogy, I for one, thought that it's ok if somethings don't get resolved cause we will have a third movie to make it all make sense, so imagine my disappointment when it didn't happen.

Also Schaff saying he doesn't like the secondary cast in the second one... like boy have u seen them in the third one??? you have to be kidding me...

Also saying Toothless is not a character in HTTYD2 is downright hilarious when you think just because Toothless's romance is the focus of the third movie, that he has any characterization at all... Toothless having more "focus" on the Third one is not good when his whole character is butchered to ultimately be the one that represents how the thematic narrative of the whole franchise went into flames...

Schaff says "the third movie establishes him (Toothless) as his own being and examines what he wants out of live independent of Hiccup" and THAT to me is fundamentally misunderstanding this whole franchise and Toothless as a whole. That there. Because Toothless was ALWAYS his own being and I think the first one AND the second movie established that more than any other. THW STRIPS Toothless of his individuality, not GIVES it to him. It legit makes him a SLAVE of his own instincts to legit forget about Hiccup and resent him out of NO WHERE to be with his supposed mate. "What he wants out of life"??? he HAS chosen Hiccup over and over and OVER again, WDYM what he wants out of life? He WANTS this life. He went AGAINST his instincts for Hiccup, he became the ALPHA to protect Hiccup. That's as HIGH in life as you could get as a dragon imo. like??? He wants a mate? cool give him one, that doesn't mean he has to separate himself from Hiccup forever because AGAIN - and I cannot emphasize this enough- HICCUP WAS NOT KEEPING TOOTHLESS IN CHAINS, HE WAS FREE AND HE STILL CHOSE HIM. JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE OTHER DRAGON AND THE BOND THEY MADE WITH THEIR HUMANS. Ugh Missed with that one big time.

And Drago? He had more parallels with Hiccup and Grimmel ever will. Sorry not sorry I have tons of posts on why that's the case. His actions had MORE impact in the story than Grimmel and YES I count Stoick's death to be more impactful and better done than "the separation", it had SO MUCH MORE weight and if you're gonna have a villain that threatens Hiccup, Both Drago and Grimmel don't hold a CANDLE to Viggo anyways. Scraff says " Drago is the reason Hiccup doesn't TRY to change Grimmel's mind in the third one and ultimate let's dragons go cause he learned his lesson" makes me so mad cause no? that's not the reason, It's because the NARRATIVE PUSHED HICCUP TO DO IT, cause they spend the whole ass movie gaslighting him into thinking he was keeping Toothless and all dragons in chains! THAT'S WHY! not Drago! Not HTTYD2!.....

The sad part is... HTTYD2 NOW is the weakest of the franchise because it has to live under HTTYD3's shadow... the FINALE, the LAST INSTALLMENT. It has to live with the fact that given how HTTYD as a whole ended, it DOES become somewhat obsolete (and the first movie too tbh and that is an actual hate crime). Stoick was not mentioned but in passing, his death had no tangible impact on Hiccup OR TOOTHLESS, his death had no impact on Valka beyond sad faces, his legacy was based on a RETCON. His presence is forgotten and how everyone acts in the THW is SO contradictory to EVERYTHING, that ppl started to just accept it, when, if you have a brain, it makes no sense. HTTYD2 becomes obsolete because its MESSAGES become obsolete thanks to the gaslighting of HTTYD3. But that's NOT HTTYD2's fault. It's the writing of HTTYD3. Cause it undoes EVERYTHING. So if you DO take into consideration HTTYD3 as CANON, and the whole trilogy as one big story, then yeah HTTYD2 becomes the weakest. IF that's the way you choose to look at things... like Schaff... which again I DO NOT agree with. Cause FUCK httyd3 and how it ruined everything.

Sighs... Sorry if I went on a rant it's not against you anon or Schaff, just letting out my frustrations with the third one :'V

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