MXTX characters are so aspec coded to me it is CRAZY.
Liu Qingge? ABSOLUTLEY! While you were having sexual temptations, he studied the blade. (May be demiromantic for SQQ. He definitely feels some type of way about him.)
Shen Yuan/Qinqqiu? You know it!! Like I get that he ended up in a very sexual relationship at the end of the book. But did it seem like he wanted that at any point? Not really!!! He just persuaded himself into thinking it wouldn’t be too bad.
Xie Lian? Yeppers. His teacher remarked that he never had struggle with sexual temptation in the 1000 years before he met HC, and I think he had time to experiment with whether he was gay or not. 100% demi sexual/demiromantic. Beyond that, he just read that way to me. As with a lot of MXTX’s protags, he is more focused on the issue/plot at hand, with a small side of slow burn romance. It’s essentially a queer platonic relationship for the entire book.
Lan Wangji? It’s kinda hard for me to keep believing this one with the way the fandom portrays him now, but when I first read the book he came off as demisexual to me.
I’ll make concessions in my head any time these are portrayed differently in fanfiction or something because it’s usually done well, but this is how I view the canon characters.
I’ve heard the characters are this way just because MXTX doesn’t like to write sex scenes? But I really like how that works out to flesh out the plot and relationships in the novel! It’s better than:
“They solved the puzzle great cool! Now for the rest of the book they can get
Freaky
And not have to waste any more time on that boring stuff like getting to know each other!”
does Jin Guangyao play a villainous role in Wei WuXian’s story? yes. but is he also the Narrative’s special boy? also, yes.
I don’t remember the post, but the fact that Wei Wuxian, and by extinction, the narrative sympathizes with Jin Guangyao has already been brought up. He draws a comparison between himself and JGY when the crowd suddenly turns against JGY in Lotus Pier and wants WWX to deal with him, and again when the other Sect Leaders led by Sect leader Yao assume that the Guanyin statue is made to resemble JGY himself ‘cause he’s a narcissist, and when people are saying nasty things about JGY in a tavern after his death.
but another way in which the narrative sympathizes with JGY is that every time JGY is shown doing a shitty thing, it’s immediately followed by him being shown in a situation in which he is a victim, or has done something good.
he paralyzes Qin Su after she finds out some horrible truths about him and hides her in the creepy room where WWX finds JGY’s sworn brother’s head? A chapter or an episode after that we see him being trash-talked and cast out by other Nie soldiers when they’re drinking the water he brought, while he’s doing thrice the work they’re doing. we see him cleaning the battlefields and helping the commoners after battles, we see him voluntarily do the work of the servants as a deputy general when they lack staff, and pour people tea, while they rudely clean their cups when they take it from his hands (which NMJ does nothing about), we see him loyally arguing with LXC that he can't leave NMJ for his father’s sect after all NMJ has done for him, and learn that he has saved LXC. CQL shows him in his Meng Yao Era more. We see him repeatedly receive scorn when all he gives others is curtsey and smiles, we see beforehand the Nie Captain be an absolute bitch to him so I'm sure nobody in the audience regretted his loss, but even then we immediately get that jumping in front of NMJ and taking a stab to the chest to save him, and the teary banishment scene that cancels the "guy is now officially a scheming murderer" out.
He's being a bitch to NMJ in the Nightless City? He kills Wen Ruohan & turns out that he has been bravely spying for the Sunshot campaign all this time and they owe him their victory. But even then, he apologizes to NMJ, kneels down, and surrenders himself.
He's protecting Xue Yang? You have him explaining to NMJ why he can't go against his father's wishes, and how he's scared of everything and everyone because he was never given the luxury of safety, status & power, so he can practice that power freely. In the end, NMJ offends his mother and kicks him down the stairs (which he's well aware is a trauma for JGY). Which honor-bound ancient man wouldn't have killed the man who disrespected his mother and kicked him down the stairs? What would have NMJ done had this been done to him? But even then, in the book, the narrative does even more to make JGY sympathetic, LXC comes to NMJ to calm him down, and he says that JGY's in a difficult situation right now. His stepmother beats him & his father doesn't listen to anything he says anymore. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked back to NMJ. & after that, NMJ's qi deviation happens when he drops eaves on this conversation between LXC & JGY:
I mean if you've tried to murder him thrice, shoved him down the stairs, & called him a whoreson, taken any opportunity to scold him, & you don't like it when he talks back to you, at least let him talk behind your back. He's not even lying or being disrespectful or anything.
He retaliates against WWX & LWJ’s attack by showing WWX as a villain and the way he has killed NMJ comes to light? a few chapters later WWX is surprised that JGY hasn’t visited LXC to demand a search but to tell him that he has prevented everyone from searching the CR and thinks it’s best if LXC, whenever it’s convenient for him opens the doors of the CR so JGY can get this search over with and shut the other sects up. And reassures him that he won’t let LWJ’s reputation be tarnished in any way. (At the stairs of Jinlintai, JGY knew fully well that LWJ was doing what he was doing because he was in love with WWX, as we learn at the Guanyin temple, but he loudly suggested that LWJ is being deceived in front of the crowd to save LXC's brother reputation.) The Donghua even has a wartime flashback from a young Meng Yao saving LXC, feeding him, hiding him, washing his clothes, getting beaten up by the Wen soldiers to keep LXC safe, and even then bringing back food for him with a smile.
He takes everyone hostage, twice (his hostages are children the first time) and is at the peak of his villain moment? You have the whole Guanyin temple thing happening. (which, personally for me, was what really elevated him from an interesting character to my poor little mew mew in my eyes.)
When JGY kneels down, WWX feels uncomfortable. He feels embarrassed on his behalf:
the same effect of inducing pity & sympathy for him is achieved in the show by somber music swelling in this scene, reaction shots, slow-mo, and a wide-shot of everyone in the temple as JGY kneels down to make him look especially small, while almost 2/3 of the shot is of the candles of the Guyanin temple. in the exposition scene when LXC kneels down to hear JGY out, the statue of Guanyin is between them. THE LOCATION OF ALL OF JGY TRAGIC EXPOSITIONS IS A GYANYIN TEMPLE! The temple of the bodhisattva of mercy who is considered to be the physical embodiment of compassion!
And the sympathetic reaction shots when he talks about JGS continue throughout the scene.
then we learn that he had to marry Qin Su because she was already pregnant and he didn’t want QS & JRS to have his and his mother’s fate and that the reason they had to rush things through like this and conceive a child was that JGS might have further caused problems for their marriage because he really disliked his son. and that if a political fall-out happened between Jin & the Qin clan, JGY would get the burn of it. (still a shitty act, but you can’t help but understand where he’s coming from & pity him), he goes on about his father kicking him down the stairs of Jinlintai on his birthday while celebrating JZX’s birthday, we learn about his childhood in the brothel, about JGS saying that he could save Meng Shi but he didn’t ‘cause she would be too much trouble, and that their son wasn’t worth mentioning, we see JGY & SMS deep connection, the show gives us some very good Xiao Shushu & A-Ling moments, & even though it’s been always clear & is especially clear during the whole Guanyin temple scene, we see truly see the depth of love, respect, and loyalty JGY has toward LXC.
We see him in the Villainous Friends chapter telling Xue Yang that he can vandalize people's shops and restaurants for no reason, only under the condition that he doesn't wear the Jin uniform. But it's immediately followed by the mention of the bruise on his head given to him by his stepmother because she can't vent her anger on her cheating husband, who JGY has to retrieve from brothels every night to ensure his safe stay in Jinlintai for another day. We see him massacre the He sect, and right after that, he goes to retrieve his father from the brothel and hears those awful things and you can't help but sympathize with him.
Because what is really important is that you understand Jin Guangyao. There are about 14 chapters in the book and 4 episodes in the show of JGY explaining himself while crying on the floor because it's less about "Jiggy eVIL" & more about look what the society who turned his back on him & his mother when they needed their help, and sneered at them when they tried to improve their situation, and never forgave JGY for being born has done to this man to make him do such horrendous deeds. (And his sword's name is Hensheng. Meaning "hate to be born". They made him never forgive himself for being born either.)
So by saying that X & Y has happened to JGY, and so what he does is for self-preservation, nobody's JUSTIFYING his genocides, & nobody's denying that JGY had a choice in everything he did. Even if his other option was to accept his place, sit down, shut up, and suffer in silence, NOT murdering a whole sect that includes children by doing experiments on them is the better option. The point is that it's not the point. JGY's atrocities are only means in the story to tell the cautionary tale of a classist, cruel society. The things that JGY has gone through cannot be erased from the conversations because "JGY EvIl. Periodt." The Narrative doesn't want the reader to do that! It's specifically structured to put the reason JGY's got to this point on the forefront every time he does a crime. The fight with NMJ's fierce corpse ends as quickly as it begins. The Climax of the story is mostly JGY's monologues. 14 chapters of monologues cannot be dismissed as JGY gaslighting LXC & shedding crocodile tears.
in a story that has Wei WuXian as a protagonist, and literally starts with the monster the society has made of him through rumors and has this theme going on through the rest of the story, especially with JC, and baseless accusations are the first thing that happens when JGY's secrets are out in the Lotus Pier, and then ends with society making a monster out of JGY after his death through rumors when Sect Leader Yao speculates that the statue's face is modeled after JGY himself (which WWX especially comments on), and in the tavern when people made such crude remarks that even those who were participating in the conversation felt uncomfortable, I think it's clear what and who the real villain is.
MXTX could have written people talking about literally any real atrocity that JGY has done, but instead, they talk about what he hasn’t done and read the worst out of his every action in life.
And actually, with everything that JGY has been through, he’s not even the worst case that could come out of his situation. He did have good intentions. For all his genocides, unlike Xue Yang, he didn't actually want to see the world burn. He did help the innocent common folk. He helped them during the sunshot campaign, and with the watchtowers, he fought against systematic corruption, and he treated everyone with respect. He rescued LXC and QS. We don’t know how many others he has personally saved. It's that the means he had to use to have the power to help the poor was incredibly dirty because he was playing an unfair game that was especially designed against him. (I'm not saying helping the poor was his only objective when he tried to gain his father's approval and a secure place in Jinlintai for himself. Though it's sad that he had to fight for these things at all.) The best he could honorably do was be NMJ's deputy general, which didn't save him from being bullied and people cleaning the cups they took from his hands. He knew that if he tried to help the innocent without having the political power to do that, he would end up like WWX. But what he didn’t know was that he would end up like that if he, unlike WWX, played by the rules of the game and compromised his morals anyway. There was no winning for people like them.
Dismissing the good that JGY has done, the real desire he had for helping the poor, and what he’s been through cheapens the character, cheapening JGY’s character to a one-dimensional Marvel villain, and dismissing the commentary that he represents on society as a whole is a disservice to the story. And that’s a crime cause the story is great.
his fall from grace, the heinous acts he had to commit to find himself the slightest bits of safety, security, and respect wouldn’t be that much of a tragedy if he didn’t want to be good and do good for people.
Then there is JGY's death and the framing of it. Here is a wonderful analysis by @sapphicdalliances of why his death wasn't justice and that was the point, how he died because of an act he didn't commit, and here are great analysis by @thatswhatsushesaid & @crithir about how his death is described as a gut-wrenching horrible scene framed through his horrified nephew & ward's eyes, both in the book and in the show, how it didn't bring the Nie brothers any closure either, and how through the lenses of LXC and JL, and by JC’s & WWX’s reaction we see his death as a tragedy.
His death is because of a dishonorable trick. His last act in life, pushing LXC away is an act of love and of forgiveness. In the CQL before that, he pushes Jin Ling out of danger, too.
As said in the aforementioned posts, after it, we don't see a victorious Nie Huaisang or Wei WuXian. In fact, neither of them is victorious.
WWX, and by extension, the narrative blames NHS for his scheming & risking innocent lives. WWX is especially appalled by NHS' treatment of Meng Shi's body. He points out that JGY, being a big liar with a considerable criminal record, will be forever accused of lying, no matter what. While he immediately after brings JGY's last genuine act toward LXC as proof that JGY couldn't have been lying.
In the CQL, he straight-up calls NHS the devil with the coldest tone he's ever had towards NHS.
NHS for his part doesn't seem victorious either.
Dare I say he even looks like despite years of scheming he was not ready for it when JGY pushes Shuoyue deeper inside his own chest. (Who would he be acting for at that moment? Nobody's looking at him. And he’s sweating!)
And I think there's a "no, he didn't" in his last "I don't know." To LXC (at least in the show) when he's insistently asked whether JGY was going to attack LXC or not and he insistently answers "I don't know". It's a confirmation without confirmation.
And then in, IMHO, one of the most beautiful and nuanced scenes, NHS finds A-Yao's hat, in the book, he bends down, picks it up, and quietly goes away (and that's the last we see of Nie Huaisang), in the show he wipes off the dust on it, and his hand finally gets bloodied, literally & metaphorically despite trying his best to not do his dirty work himself. And we get a flashback of A-Yao's childhood that I always assumed we're seeing through NHS because maybe JGY had told him that story. Not only does the order of the scene, combined with NHS' deep in thought look seem like it but also NHS cleans JGY's hat when in that memory A-Yao's mom tells him that he needs to take good care of his hat.
And that scene is especially beautiful because the show went out of its way to show their close relationship pre-time skip. And we see NHS keep A-Yao's principal by cleaning his hat when JGY himself is too dead to do that. Even when the reason for his death is NHS himself. And by NHS getting his hands bloodied while cleaning the hat, and staring at it with a deep, nuanced look, that combination of care & hatred is shown in that scene.
I think he feels empty. He's spent years after years planning this thing. It was his only drive. Now it's over. And it wasn't a grand, victorious moment. It just...happened. and it was something that needed to happen, in his eyes.
And he did love his san-ge for a long, long time before the betrayal came to light for him. And then he hated him for a long, long time. But at that moment with JGY's bloodied hat in his hand? I think that's the moment when love and hatred have both run their passionate course and they've finally reached each other in the middle and collided and ran out of strength and intensity and separate, clear meaning and they just take their exhausted leave together, leaving only a trace behind.
And most prominently we see a devastated LXC and JL. We see Jin Ling's flashback of when his Xiao Shushu gave him his spiritual puppy. We see him being the only one who could cheer JL up when he was down for days.
We see JL choosing to keep loving him despite everything.
His loss is felt and the memory of his good deeds keeps coming back in JL's narrative:
The Narrative doesn't just sympathize with him. The Narrative mourns him.
