#toa theory

[thealphavoidofficial]

Soooooo! Cookie run theory time!! This time we’re doing

*drum roll*

TOWER OF ADVENTURES!!

This time I doing a theory on GingerBraves possible connection to the Abyss Cookies/4 Calamities

So as we know from Melanchream’s story, the Abyss cookies were created from left over dough in the oven, and the dark power mixed with the dark memories trapped within with the Witch’s Curse.

We know the basics, Melanchrem created the other 3 Abyss Cookies, absorbed the Witch’s Curse and escaped, all the good stuff

But what I don’t understand is, why was it that GingerBrave and ONLY GINGERBRAVE was able to enter Melanchream’s memories? It’s stated by the others that they tried entering but couldn’t, like some sort of barrier was keeping them out. So WHY only GingerBrave

Well that’s where this theory comes in:

GingerBrave not only has a connection to the Abyss Cookies, but is Infact ONE of them, let me explain

So we know the Abyss Cookies were created by Melanchrem using some of her memories:

Pestilence

Famine

And War

But that leaves me to suspect that GingerBrave might have been made with a left over memory of sorts

We all remember that Melanchream obtains memories by consuming them, and we all remember when Malenchream consumed one of Shallot Cookies memories

Now this could mean one thing, maybe she could have gotten rid of it the moment she got the chance? That should explain things right?

But here’s the thing……there’s a high chance that light was inside her the entire time, shown in THIS DIALOGUE:

So that would theoretically mean that the light was indeed insider her since the start, laying dormant, what else fits the description?

The shining heart!

Not to mention, when Melanchream first awakens, she has a rather bland appearance, ginger dough, no sign of clothing from what we can see, much like a certain Brave cookie

And coincidently, GingerBrave just so happens to be called upon when the Oven seal breaks! It’s pretty much confirmed that the memories take place after various time skips, so who knows how long Melanchream was in the oven before becoming Melanchream? Maybe somewhere between time skips she dispelled what every light power that was inside her!

And it’s important to note that maybe, just maybe, GingerBrave wasn’t even baked that long ago, maybe when the Oven a seal broke that power escaped somewhere, it’s highly likely it was forced out after Malenchream absorbed the Witch’s Curse due to the dark power overpowering it.

It’s important to note that this dialogue just didn’t sit right with me:

I know enough about Devsis to know that dialogue is important in their stories, and seeing all the hints, all the possibilities in this story I just couldn’t ignore and and began to brainstorm

Why was GingerBrave the only one who could enter Melanchream’s memories? Why could the Pestilence Abyss Cookie see him in the memory? And why was he ‘immersed’ in the memory as Melanchream? As far as I know that’s not normally how it works

The only other cookies I know actually immerses into memories is Stained Nougat Cookie, who himself, is made of memories and doesn’t have a proper identity of his own, he essentially BECOMES the memories he absorbs.

So that brings to to another theory:

The Abyss Cookies all share memories

If all the memories that make them up came from Melanchream it’d make sense that they’d all share memories with her in a weird Lucid Dream kind of way, they share the same origin and essentially all originated from HER and the Dark Power of the Oven.

So that would essentially mean that the reason the Pestilence Abyss Cookie could see GingerBrave, was because in a way, THEY were in the memory to, maybe reminiscing, or even sleeping, reliving the day of their birth as a way of reminiscing. It’s likely that they experienced that same thing GingerBrave did in that sequence and immersed themself as Melanchream for the first bit until their birth because essentially THEY ARE her.

So why was GingerBrave able to experience that? Well probably the same reason, HE IS apart of Melanchream, and in a way the other Abyss Cookies, he is the light to their darkness, the reason he came into consciousness after the first quarter of it is probably because that’s the part where the light was either expelled, or suppressed, allowing him to snap back to ‘reality’.

The moment Melanchream became Melanchream, that’s the moment her light disappeared, the moment her innocence, her naivety, and her childishness disappeared and made way for something darker, and more sinister, and the moment the shiner heart was left suppressed within the darkness, at least until it was either expelled or escaped when the oven seal broke, or maybe it passed through earlier because it wasn’t part of the dark power sealed within, and thus the barrier let it out.

But anyways, what do you all think of this theory? Let me know :)

[lovegiroke]

I think with melan being seen as a child for second anniversary, she’ll more likely be a daughter figure for enigma seed, like maybe a unknown cookie will take her to the soon to be pancake tower, and it’ll be revealed that it was enigma seed that took her in the end of the story

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

ToA Theory 1 - Apollo's Waking Visions

First official theory post, here we go! :D

Alright. So. After rereading The Dark Prophecy, I started wondering about something. In TDP, Apollo experiences waking visions, where he conks out for a bit and has prophetic visions.

I found this interesting because, well...isn't Apollo supposed to be cut off from prophecy? With Python back in control of Delphi?

Because think about it. Python controls Delphi, the root of all earthly prophecy. This would include Dodona, Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl - sure, they aren't strictly connected to Delphi, but it's pretty heavily stated that Delphi just straight-up Makes The Future. It's prophecies are The Big Deal and you Should Listen.

Meanwhile the other Oracles seem more guiding and "beware!" instead of "this is how it's gonna be".

(sidenote: found out there are MORE oracles and I wanna know WHERE THEY ARE IN RRVERSE CANON because I want my boy Branchus okay??? Okay. Branchus's oracle was second only to Delphi let's give Apollo's first boyfriend the attention he deserves!)

So of course, like all great members of this fandom, I started thinking.

Let's do a little family history first. ;)

Buckle up. We go down a deep rabbit hole 😎

Apollo and Artemis are twins, born to Leto and Zeus. Zeus's parents are Kronos and Rhea. Leto's are Koios and Phoebe.

Rhea has connections to Dodona, as we learn in-series, but she doesn't really seem to be all that involved with prophecy.

Her siblings, meanwhile...ho ho ho, they are a WHOLE NOTHER STORY!

Let's start with Phoebe. Phoebe, like all first generation Titans, is the daughter of Gaea and Ouranos. She married her brother Koios. Her children consist of Asteria, Lelantos, and Leto. As well as Artemis and Apollo, her other two grandchildren are Hecate (Asteria) and Aura (Lelantos).

Her name means "bright" and is the root of Apollo's most famous epithet - Phoebus. She is often described as "golden-crowned" and is the Titan of bright intellect, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, and is the second guardian of Delphi, after her sister Themis. She gifted Delphi to Apollo for his birthday after he defeated Python.

Classic grandmother move.

Anyway. There's a bit of Phoebe lore. Time for her elusive husband :3

Koios. His names means "question" or "questioning", probably because he's the Titan of inquiring intellect. He's also the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and has an oracle up in the North Pole guarded by an earth-dragon - you'd know this serpent by the name of Draco, the constellation btw. Additionally, Hyperborea (where Apollo goes in the winter times) is part of his domain.

eyes

Unfortunately, we have very little mythological lore on these two, and even less in the RRverse (I cling to that one (1) Koios scene) which sucks because I love them already BUT it does give me lots of legroom to mess around with canon >:)

Back to the theory now. As you may have guessed, I'll be taking us in a direction concerning Apollo's mysterious grandparents. But what does this have to do with Apollo's visions?

Well. Remember when I mentioned that Delphi is the root of all earthly prophecies?

...look at Phoebe's paragraphs. She's the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, right? So it makes sense she's been affected by Python's takeover too.

(if you've read my fics you'd know this already lmao)

Asteria, Apollo's aunt, is a little trickier. She, too, has a hand in divination, but mainly through the night/stars and dreams. <-will come back to that later.

Koios, again, is overseer of Heavenly Prophecies, and is heavily implied to be able to commune with Ouranos's spirit. This is, apparently, a Big Deal because nobody else is mentioned to be able to do this.

...Except...remember this throwaway line in The Hidden Oracle?

^Apollo can see Ouranos too.

Within this theory is a sub-theory, so to speak - that immortals with the gift of prophecy can see Ouranos, since they can see what cannot be seen. This would include Phoebe, Asteria, Koios, and Apollo.

And it'll make sense why they'd keep it to themselves. Kronos wouldn't have been happy to hear his dad was still around. Neither would Zeus, for that matter.

So here I was. Contemplating. Wrote a few fics based around this idea. And one in particular got me thinking (fic in question being When The Stars Align), and a little ways down the road I realized something.

If Phoebe, the overseer of Earthly Prophecies, would have been affected by Python's takeover...was Koios? Could he even be affected?

Because here's the deal: Koios is the overseer of Heavenly Prophecies. Prophecies from the Sky.

Phoebe's are of the Earth - the Earth that Python has taken control of. And Delphi is the root of Earthly Prophecies - not Heavenly.

That would be Koios's oracle, up in the North Pole with Draco.

...So that means Heavenly Prophecy must have still been in business during ToA.

But then comes the question: If it was still within the gods' control, why didn't they use it?

Well...Draco's there, for one. He's probably the Python-equivalent of the North, and clearly he's still there since no myth has spoken of his death (that I know of).

If you ask me, I just think the gods are too nervous/afraid to try Koios's oracle. They were too scared to face Python, after all, until Apollo arrived. I think they'd be scared of a serpent who comes and goes from the stars as he pleases.

And as for why Apollo hasn't done anything about it...well, I think his fight with Python left him rather scarred, don't you think? He probably went "yeah grandma's oracle is enough" and the only time he ever got close to Koios's was during his time in Hyperborea.

So getting back to the main theory now. (So many rabbit holes to dive into with this post. The ADHD Urge is real)

Since Heavenly Prophecies is still active, but Earthly is in Python's control, I conclude Apollo's visions come from the Heavenly source.

Could they have come from the now-working Dodona? Maybe. But Dodona's all about those windchimes and trees. It doesn't have the Vibe, so to speak, for granting visions.

And remember. Trophonius, Herophile, and Sibyl aren't destroyed/freed yet. They have Zero connection to Apollo at this point because Python cut him off from them.

...but he didn't from the North. From Koios's divine power.

Because remember. Apollo is the god of prophecy.

Not of Earthly Prophecies, like Phoebe.

Not of Heavenly Prophecies, like Koios.

Not of nighttime divination and dreams like Asteria.

Of. Prophecy.

Prophecy as a whole. The entirety. The whole enchilada.

Every part of prophecy he's the god of, be it tarot cards to the Oracle of Delphi itself.

In my opinion, I think whatever Koios's Oracle is, it has just as must power as Delphi. The only problem was that...everybody just left it be. Nobody considered it because:

1) scary dragon

2) scary titan ruled the place

3) honestly at this point I think it's just straight-up forgotten about. Like Branchus's Oracle. I think at one point Apollo himself mentions there are other Oracles besides the ones in-series, but there's so many that his mortal brain cannot comprehend how many.

If the Grove of Dodona nearly faded into obscurity, then I think it's entirely possible Koios's Oracle was forgotten about (or so we think...I'm gonna be chewing on this for a while.)

Coming back round to TDP...I think this is a reasonable explanation about Apollo's visions. To summarize:

Apollo is cut off from Earthly Prophecy, his usual source of foresight that he gets from Phoebe

The unused, near-forgotten-about Heavenly Prophecy side of Apollo ignites to steer him on the right path

This is possible because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself, and not a single subset of prophecy, so he's not limited in the same way Phoebe is

Koios's Oracle is still out there and kicking and I will die on this hill

One problem. What about Asteria? She can interpret the future from the stars...aka the Sky. Like Koios. So couldn't she provide some insight to the future, since she, too, is connected to Heavenly Prophecy?

This is where things get a lil' tricky. And where I really slap on my tinfoil hat and start headcanoning my way through lmao

Basically, I think that since Asteria became the island of Delos (long story) a good chunk of her power is ingrained there. She's not as strong as she used to be, so her foresight isn't as strong.

This, in turn, I think could also serve as a reason why Koios's Oracle is "asleep" so to speak and nearly lost to memory in the RRverse - in fact, I think Asteria and Phoebe are the only ones who bother to remember its existence.

And Leto, of course. But I don't think she wants her son to know of another Oracle with a giant snake guarding it. She's had enough heart-attacks, thank you.

(Same with Lelantos, tbh.)

Canon is my sandbox and I am making some sweet sandcastles out of it XD

TL;DR

Apollo's visions in TDP stem from Koios's source of Heaven Prophecy because Phoebe's source of Earthly Prophecy (Delphi) has been taken over by Python. Koios's source firmly knocks on Apollo's mental doors and decides to kick back into gear to help its titular patron's grandson out. Because Apollo is the god of prophecy itself - every bit of it.

Extras:

I find it fascinating how magic and prophecy are both part of the same family tree (Hecate & Apollo).

and yes. You should expect a fic concerning Koios's Oracle at some point. but no promises on when :3

Thank you for coming to Insane Theory Time With Alder. I hope there will be more lmao

Websites you can look into:

Koios (Theoi)

Phoebe (Theoi)

Hyperborea (Theoi)

[overanalyzer]

Something I've been thinking about is the fact that ToA establishes/heavily implies that gods are effected by the beliefs of mortals. It also sets Zeus up as like this really terrible god and king.

But like Zeus started out as the personification of a mighty king (from the perception of Ancient Greeks). As society shifted views towards him shifted too. By the logic within ToA that means Zeus himself was affected and changed in personality to match those beliefs. He gets to watch himself slowly change into a version of himself that closely resembles the king he worked so hard to overthrow and he tries to react to it. To prevent it.

His reactions post TLO seem overkill with closing off Olympus. He's hoping the distance will make them seem more divine and to be looked up to (the only one who really struggles with this is him and maybe Hera as well at that moment). Perhaps it was to prevent his current self from making it worse for him and the hope that the distance would fix things. (Something something tragedy of self fulfilling Prophecies)

Any which way, we also know that mortals have the special ability of being able to define themselves and who they are. They can change and grow and adapt (Apollo mentions admiring it about them). Toss in my headcanon that the reason Dionysus and Hercules were able to be more in control during the HoO Greco-Roman Schism is because they used to be mortal (and thus are better able to define themselves)

Apollo is set up to be as Zeus' favorite son. Within ToA he is forced to be completely mortal. So theoretically, in a really twisted way Zeus made Apollo mortal to give him the chance to define himself outside the beliefs of mortals.

From a general within Canon perspective it seems strange because the lessons Apollo learns are completely different from the lessons the series seems to imply his punishment was meant to teach him.

His powers were locked behind selflessness. He's forced to write a series where his family's flaws are brought to light that just highlights and rings home his character growth. One common argument I see is to deepen the humiliation. I definitely see that as a possibility as well as jealousy and a desire to cause pain. There were far simpler and easier ways that required less sacrifice and danger for that lesson to be learned.

All that said, I just thought it was an interesting concept that maybe there was a part of Zeus that loved his son and tried to give him the opportunity he never had or could have. The chance to define himself outside of the beliefs of others through the guise of a punishment.

[creephunter]

You’re gonna look at me and tell me Gaylen!Krel wasn’t in the plan to happen at some point when every single time they tell the story of Gaylen’s core Krel and Aja always ALWAYS mirror Seklos and Gaylen

[fluffjellyy]

Ok so uhm...I did a thing. What if Rise of The Titans was actually referred to our protagonists? 👀

[commandingdaylight]

Could whoever’s in there be the missing water member of the Arcane Order?

We have Air/ Wind, Fire, and Earth— it’s only natural there’s Water as well!

[sergeantsporks]

Okay, I said it as a joke, but y’know what? Let’s talk about the inter-species implications of the Staja babies. I know it squicks everyone out, but the general “Yikes”ness of it all aside... seriously, there’s a lot to unpack.

Specifically, how it’s not “inter-species” at all.

Right. Assuming the Staja babies are viable (able to reproduce-- which we’ll never know because of Jim’s reset), correct my biology, but that makes Steve and Aja the same species. Because if they can reproduce living offspring that can, in turn, produce more living offspring, that makes them the same species, baby! There are two explanations for this:

1) The frankly rather boring explanation of “Akaridions are incredibly versatile, blah blah blah, they’re energy based which means their energies can match other species enough to reproduce, blah blah blah.” which matches with how they can turn into humans (and presumably other things should the transduction chambers be set right) or...

2) Humans and Akaridions are the same species, but Akaridions aren’t the same species as everything else in the universe.

Huh.

How would two creatures from planets LIGHT YEARS away and seem to have little to no contact with each other be so similar? Creatures on our OWN planet don’t have a close enough DNA match to us that we can reproduce with viable offspring.

Well. Technically, we’re delving into theory zone here. My personal “what if.” But.

What if Akaridions are a troll/human fusion from the future that time-traveled and created a new planet due to some kind of apocalypse, making an alternate timeline?

Think about it. Magic and Akaridion tech are EXTREMELY compatible. Wormholes are similar to shadow portals. Serators share similarities to the trollhunter amulet, and with the same collapsible ability as Douxie’s staff. Not to mention using Akaridion heartstone for the new amulet. Akaridion tech combined with magic, as proved once in 3Below and another time in Wizards, can do some preeeeeetty powerful stuff with time. And that’s just a bunch of kids/trickster trolls messing around with stuff they’re not entirely sure how to control.

Varvaatos comments on Blinky having 4 arms like the royals. Blinky also has multiple sets of eyes-- like Morando and Varvaatos. Aaarrrgh!!! and most other trolls share a large physique that is reflected in Akaridions-- and Nomura shares an eerily similar design to Zadra. And yet, the Akaridions seem to share many features with humans as well. Not to mention the whole. Y’know. Ability to reproduce with humans. “Akaridion” sounds a lot like “Arcadia.”

And, of course, the trolls and Akaridions already sharing some prophecy stuff/collaborating on Galen’s core is preeeetty suspicious.

So what if, in the distant future of another timeline, humans and trolls managed to combine magically-- putting their essence together in “cores.” Wizards and scientists working together created a way back in time (Maybe Galen? Maybe the whole “using his core to make Akaridion 5″ was actually him using magic to power a trip in time? Idk) to a new planet. There, they evolved separately from the humans on earth-- it would be dangerous for the timeline, after all, to interact with human history. And after a while, the time-traveling faded to distant history and legends. But they kept enough similarity that they could still reproduce-- and enough similarity in their tech that it was still compatible with magic.

Basically, screw your gag subplot, I’m going to make it RELEVANT and EXPLANATORY OF THIS THING THAT WAS NEVER EXPLAINED