Everyone jokes about Rinzler’s “purr” and cat coding, even me. However the more I sit and think about him the more he reads to me as a abused dog.
The transformation from a Watch dog to a attack dog is a horrifying one. A watch dog may have a responsibility to watch the house(system) but still has time off duty and people who love him. A attack dog does not participate in society, there is not a moment they aren’t on alert , aren’t looking to attack or kill because that’s simply all they know.
Going from Tron to Rinzler would’ve seen his metaphorical floppy ears and tails cropped, his spirit/resolve broken, harmed for disobedience etc. Yes it was repurposing but it takes a lot more than just some coding to make a reactive killing machine. All he does is wait until Clu goes “bite” and then he gets his opponent.
It’s so fascinating and so unbelievably tragic, and I think that’s why I love him so much as a concept. For some reason as a child I always loved the concept of mind control- turning so evil against your will - doing some horrible things but eventually being able to pull through and be yourself in the end. I don’t know why but I’ve always loved this storytelling device so much… I guess I was edgy as hell as a child.
I’m so mad that they have done this as it’s such a great concept but they do virtually nothing with Rinzler- it feels to me anyway that it was more of just a method to “get Tron out of the way” without completely killing the character from the start.
And it’s a shame because there’s SO much you can do with him? There’s that idea there that he is constantly at odds with the new programing fighting it every single second and loosing because there’s always ultimately another command. Another fight. There’s not enough time granted to him for it but he tries. His throats ruined- he growls constantly - give me that tragedy I just know that he’s dripping with! Give me that abused attack dog metaphor!
Instead of “oh! No! Reveal time… whoops he’s dead” (not in the sea but he’s like RIGHT in the direct blast radius and I’m still mad)
I JUST realized how shitty of a friend Tron actually was, I mean. I knew he was. I have older posts saying so. But I mean it like during the Grid Era (I'mma call it that). Have y'all noticed that when Tron thought Ram and Flynn died during that blast from the first movie-- he was so utterly upset he shouted and his circuits increased in brightness? Yeah, obviously. But have y'all noticed how Tron didn't do that to Dyson in Uprising when that disc hit him across the face? You'd imagine that after losing, and almost losing his beloved friends he'd be more protective of his new ones.
Like, if your friend got sliced in the face you'd call for medical help right? Carry them to safety, seek help, comfort them, and show them that you're there for them. Well.... Tron didn't do any of that. He just saw Dyson's face get damaged, probably asked if he was okay, and just didn't do anything about it. Even when Flynn arrived later-- he didn't beg or worriedly tell Flynn to fix his dear friend Dyson. He just interjected, "He sustained that injury while in the field, sir." All matter of factly. He never even brought up or asked Flynn if he could help, he was just indifferent about the situation.
Also (my memory may be a little foggy of this one) Tron didn't seem all that upset Able died either. Sure he could've stayed strong for Beck, but I don't think he even comforted him. Just gave him the, "Shit happens." Shpeel. However, Tron obviously cared more about Beck than he did to Dyson and Clu. I would assume it's because Beck is his successor, his heir if you will. I'd imagine that Tron would have to care a little more since he wasn't physically okay to go and search for a new Renegade every passing cycle, and after a while he probably did begin to genuinely care for Beck and saw him as a program he needed to help grow.
Before anyone says, "TRON HAS FEELINGS." I know he does. I've seen him feel despair, love, happiness, anger, loneliness, hopelessness and hope. I've seen him do all of that. That's not why I made this. I made this to point out that AFTER entering the Grid, he became indifferent to the people around him other than Flynn. My point being, and this is my own HC that I believe firmly in, is that Flynn programmed Tron to be more loyal and animated towards him. However the result of this is that Flynn grew emotionally distant from other people and ultimately made him a bad friend. I'm unsure if Flynn was aware of the consequences of that or not, or if he knew what he was doing would change Tron. But Tron didn't start off as bad friend (especially in Kingdom of Hearts, but that's a bit different), he cared about the people around them and was protective of those he loved. But right when be entered the Grid he was different, and I think Flynn did something. I just think Flynn was being selfish, enjoyed being praised, changed Tron's coding so all he did was side with Flynn-- probably because he knew the programs would like Tron and wanted him to convince the others that Flynn was great and knew what he was doing (which has worked before), and because that would mean Tron would be protective of him meaning Flynn could do whatever he wanted and the security program would just keep him from dying. And as he know, Flynn put himself in a lot of dangerous situations because he was aware Tron would prevent him from being harmed.
This would explain why Clu was so aggressive about Tron talking or defending Flynn and even telling him later on, "He betrayed all of us." Clu's way of possibly telling Tron he knew what Flynn did, and Tron should feel betrayed despite being programmed to continuously support Flynn, which could also explain why Tron never brought up Flynn or said his name-- because he understand Clu's words and meaning, finally understanding why things ended the way the did.
I love Flynn and Tron, I really do. I even ship them, but that doesn't mean I can't shit on them. Tron was left to deal with the aftermath of Flynn's actions. The possible change in his coding lead to him being a bad friend, which caused Dyson to easily not regret teaming up with Clu to hurt Tron, not regret torturing him, and surely not regret taking everything away from him. Again, I'd like to say that Tron was a good friend in the Old System Era, but obviously he became indifferent to the people around him and hadn't bothered to become a better person. Not that I blame him or what he's done or ended up becoming.
I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts or ideas!
(Also note, I'd like to say that everyone who was Tron's underlings, that includes his three special soldiers, Cyrus, and Beck-- all brought out a different reaction in him. Probably because he felt obligated to lead and protect them, failing at almost all of them possibly made him feel incompetent and hopeless)
Like, what ever happened to Yori after the events of the first film? She’s not even mentioned in the second one, and even though her suit appears in Uprising, an easter egg I hope future seasons would have explored further, it’s almost like she was erased from canon.
I know someone related to Legacy said she’s still around (I think it was Joseph Kosinski?) but doing what? We’re left to speculate.
Personally, I think after the first film, she helped with Flynn’s new Grid, an organizer of sorts. After the coup, I imagine she figured Tron was derezzed and so she went underground to save herself. I know she would not tolerate CLU’s dictatorship at all, so she may have put together her own rebellion. This may at some point put her into contact with Beck and Tron, we get an angsty reunion, but all’s good in the end.
Eventually, Tron becomes Rinzler, and that’s where things get really messy. I can see Yori becoming a mother figure to Beck the way Tron is a father figure and no matter what you tell me they are somehow related I kNOW that’s not how the grid works but beck is tron and yori’s kid and you cannot convince me otherwise
Anyway, so Beck and Yori stay together, perhaps? It doesn’t really matter because the real meat of this is how Yori reacts to Rinzler. Although if Beck was somehow a combination of Tron and Yori’s code, this could be a huge source of contention between the two.
Either way, when Yori finds out, I imagine she would be absolutely devastated. We know Tron and Yori have some sort of past, as they know each other in the first film, and for all we know, they have been together for a long time. She would likely him rather be derezzed than be brainwashed to believe everything he stands against (and I imagine Tron would, too.) It would be heartbreaking.
Now, I don’t know if Rinzler would have any sort of feeling toward Yori. I can’t remember if Rinzler has Tron’s memories, or if we even know for sure, but from the way he recognizes Sam I feel he would at least have a glimmer of recognition towards her. Would he derezz her, if given the chance? Again, unsure. I’m inclined to say yes, because his brain has been through a blender and doesn’t know which way is up. But another part of me is saying that if he didn’t, what would that be like?
This is just a theory (as is the rest of this post), but in my fic 404 Not Found (chapter 3, if you’re wondering. This fic honestly isn’t that good, be warned) Rinzler finds Yori, fights with her a minute, but then eventually realizes that hey, I know this person, and hides her in the Outlands. Rinzler ditches his discs somewhere and visits her occasionally, but it’s terribly awkward, to say the least, and after Rinzler has a breakdown after he murders innocent programs, Yori says “lol i’m out” and Rinzler tells her that he’ll leave instead, and she can have the house to live out the rest of her cycles. She agrees, and they part ways.
I like the idea of Rinzler hiding Yori away (similar to the dragon hiding the princess in the tower trope) because I feel reprogramming isn’t complete. Even when you wipe a hard drive or delete files, there are still traces of them. That’s how I feel it would be with Rinzler: he has these brief glimpses of her still tucked away in his memory.
Switching gears a bit, I feel Yori would change a lot after the coup. She would be bitter and deeply depressed. I mean, her entire world that she worked so hard for crashed down and her best friend is dead. (Side note: I also feel like she would love ISOs and would thus be distraught after the Purge.) It’s a bit of the “I’ve been burned by this world before so I don’t care” mentality, but I feel in this case it’s accurate.
Once Tron’s back after Legacy, what happens then?
If something similar to what happened in my fic (aka Rinzler and Yori reunion and inevitable breakup) happened, I don’t think Yori would want to be back together with him, even though he’s Tron, because all she can see is Rinzler. It really just depends if she saw the depth of how awful Rinzler was.
Assuming Yori has not seen how brutal Rinzler was, I can imagine a scenario with Sam & Quorra back on the Grid, finding Tron, and his suggestion to figure this all out is “find Yori.” Easy first act of TR3N, trying to find her (plus, more exploration of the Grid, which is always a good thing.) We get our onscreen reunion, backstory, and we incorporate Sam & Quorra into all this. Maybe Beck too, if they so deign.
I know this was really rambly and not really a meta, just me speculating, and I know it is confusing as I am mixing my own personal canon with actual canon. Forgive me.
I really know nothing about Leto, aside from I wasn’t impressed with Suicide Squad - not sure how much was him and how much was the script.
My concern is more the script. Kosinski’s initial pitch was definitely raising alarm bells; something that inspires so many digital artists and IT folks being reduced to just another “technology is evil!” screed is a horrible development.
Favorite parts of 2.0? Deconstructing the User idea by having humans find out about it. Flynn, for all his many faults, was still an essentially good guy. The F-Con trio? Thorne? Not so much. They do what humans have always done with a new frontier; invade with mercenaries, strip anything not nailed down, exploit/enslave/kill the natives, and then try to use the looted resources to try and rule the world. Other highlights are depicting how modern (by 2003 standards) computers would look in the Tron universe - the spires and busy atmosphere of the Internet hub, the sparse and frustrating area of a crappy PDA, the claustrophobia of a virtual server, the creep show of a virus-overrun machine, the “Oh shit!” red wall of reformat death bearing down. Great stuff. Oh, and trying to broaden the cast a bit as far as making a bit less white and male was a good idea, even if it led to some unfortunate implications on the F-con crew.
Uprising was a great development. Finally, some characterization and a solid part for the title fucking character. (Even if I seriously suspect they were cribbing notes from 2.0!Alan in places) Finally a look at the Program world and how they thought and worked, some hints on how they may be different from humans. Not necessarily bad, but different. I also liked the hints on just how gray the situation was; if you have a miracle, but it’s endangering everyone's lives - not intentionally, but just by being there, and “god” is apparently uncaring or oblivious to the danger, what options are on the table?
But one of the biggest appeals to me in the whole franchise was its unusual take on AI. They weren’t necessarily subservient, they weren’t desiring to be human. they weren’t monolithic on anything - their opinions, thoughts, outlook, personalities...they weren’t the same as their human creators, but they sure reflected the best and worst parts of them, including how two good people could come to wildly different conclusions! That’s where Legacy fell down for me; the AI characters were always treacherous, always evil. Only the human leads and the partly-biological Iso were sympathetic - everyone else were put in the pile of “okay to kill” - title character included (even if it was painted as a heroic sacrifice/mercy kill)
I think I’ve figured out one of my main gripes with legacy, and it’s one I’ve talked about but it’s never fully registered as an idea. I think this is because I just saw the new ghostbusters a few weeks ago so it’s fresh on the mind.
Legacy is one of those “screw the legacy cast” type continuations.
In that the original characters are sidelined or mis characterized for the next generation characters to step in and take over. It’s in an almost disrespectful way too— like it’s a ripping the torch out of someone’s hands rather than passing it sort of way. There’s no blending or cohesion really it’s just “screw you it’s been 20 years. Those classic characters are either dead or irrelevant— look at these new guys”.
I’ve already screamed forever and ever about the absolute assassination of Kevin Flynn into him becoming a plot device but it’s also the complete lack of explanation. There’s some backstory but we’re just tossed into a completely new digital world and culture with little mention of the old one or old real world. Even the backstory shared in the film is backstory of the new world— Tron himself is barely there and as much as I like Rinzler could’ve been done so much better if there was some sort of connector piece. I don’t know how to explain this.
The only legacy character to get some sort of respect is Alan but even then he’s sort of “he’s oh so very old and just here to set up hip young guy”.
And this isn’t to say I don’t like Sam or the new world and way of things — it’s just sort of frustrating as a sequel as it’s sort of not? There’s characters to tie it to the original. But it’s so so much its own separate story and rules— like Tron(82) was a fantasy whereas legacy is a generic sci fi.
Contrast this to the new ghostbusters films. Both are much more centered on the next generation cast but in a way that respects their elders™️. They found the torch on the ground and ran with it. The legacy characters get attention, time, characterization and love. There’s a relationship there. The world building is consistent and not rewritten — they don’t do “ew the 80s movies were so cheesy and old here’s our edgy and hip modern universe only related by film name”
Legacy is better (for me personally!!!) when I disconnect it from the original in my mind. And with the way the film and the world is that’s not very hard to do unfortunately. They really banked on “it’s 20 years later you mostly forgot the original here’s daft punk”
I’m not beating the “is obsessed with the 82’ novelization accusations, this is my 5th time reading it. In my defense it’s great and adds a lot of detail, anyways.
The way it talks about Alan and his morals really struck me. They put him into a great contrast with Dillinger and even Flynn, who ultimately does good but is a bit looser when it comes to following rules. The paragraph says it better than I’m going to but his decision to go along with the break in plan comes simply because he feels what’s happening at ENCOM is wrong. Someone has to do something, Alan waits before acting himself sees if anyone attacks from a legal Avenue. A “someone will” attitude, because he has so much faith in others that he knows it’s not just him who will see a issue and want to do something about it. Not him but someone will… unfortunately we don’t live in a world with many “doers”. His decision to go along with the break in is a spur of the moment, he’s struck with sympathy for Flynn and his already existent frustration and sense of wrong. It’s probably one of the first times he doesn’t talk himself into backing down.
Alan is a good man. A honest man and a hard worker who’s faith in others is a bit higher than they deserve. He’s a rarity! A honest, rule following businessman. That’s why he could never last at the top of ENCOM, in “the last day” short film and likely the Flynn lives campaign there’s a brief mention of Alan being a Temp CEO while Flynn was missing. This was a very brief period in the 90s that quickly saw him pushed back down onto the board and basically being expected to shut up. Almost a quite firing. He’s not cut out for the cutthroat corporate game - he’s good at deals and explaining what they do but that only gets you so far… I can also see why from a talk perspective. In the Paranoids online mini video he absolutely flounders until Lora swoops in to save him. He’s not exactly Flashy Kevin flynn who could go “woof” into the mic and make the crowd go wild.
Additionally I love how much this puts him into contrast with Tron. For all the things that make Alan weak in the business world are what make Tron the admirable chosen warrior, the noble hero, within the grid. Here all of the best aspects of Alan are commemorated. That honesty, faith and stalwart behavior are better suited for the mythical other world of fairytale endings. Good conquers evil, the MCP explodes and the end. In the real world? Good luck, good guys can’t seem to win anymore.
Can you imagine what it felt like? After wanting nothing but to face Flynn again, to scream at him, to yell and kick and scream and cry— this is a man you thought of for cycles wanting to destroy him— wanting to ask him, why? You finally face him after thousands of cycles it’s happening and… he’s old.
Clu is faced with this remorseful old man. He looks so impossibly tired, so weak and sad that it practically breaks him. Then Flynn opens his mouth and starts to apologize, the anger becomes confused and it lessens— he’s sorry. But he can’t even apologize right. He makes the effort and he still fails— in fact he essentially calls clu a mistake to his face and makes it about himself then a full apology- he sees clu as his mistake but not his own program. can you fucking imagine that mix of emotions ? Seeing this sad old man in-front of you who can’t possibly be the same man you’ve been harboring all this hate for. But you’ve known nothing but anger and confusion for most of your runtime, what else is there to feel? Then he apologizes… but he’s not… then he’s doing everything in his power to stop you for some stranger— a son. Is that not what you are? The two of you were supposed to build the perfect system (same team? We’re always on the same team.) doesn’t he see this is all you have left- escape is the only way out? No he’s never seen- the anger returns.
Anyways… thinking about how the concept of Aging and children being non existant to programs (there is old programs but it is not a fast process. You’d need to be ancient) and how that plays into the final fight with Clu. How Flynn is so close but so far to understanding where he had messed up, how Clu is in a way the forgotten son.
The absolute desperation of Clu’s face to reach the portal for some mythical better place. It becomes so clear in that moment it was never about domination or control, and it hits me almost as hard as when Sam and Flynn reunite.
There’s a lot of interesting takes on Rinzler out there, here’s mine.
I can’t fully accept the idea of Tron being Rinzler forever. Both because my heart couldn’t take it and that’s just not who Tron is. People forget how he’s such a force of pure good and virtually unable to give up.
As wonderfully tragic as Rinzler is as a concept you can’t tell me he wasn’t fighting every solitary second of the reprogramming, of the virus, the brainwashing, all of it. You can do all of this to him and you can make him forget who he is on the surface but you cannot stop his desire to do good- you can’t keep him from fighting - especially after making him a weapon. (Something done by both Sark and Clu)
The idea hadn’t originated by me but his should is not only by the damage but from this subconscious battle. Clawing his way back to the surface. That’s why he’s in the games or on a task or guarding because any god damn second you leave him on his own Tron is going to try to break free. Distract, fight, kill, no rest.
I sort of love the scene in the sea because of this, Flynn fundamentally breaking something in his new coding enough for him to fight clu and his color returning to neutral in the sea. JUMPED at the opportunity to break out the minute he gets it. I don’t think he had fully, I see it more as punching his hand through the shell. There’s a crack in the armor but he’s not wholly free.
While I don’t believe Rinzler is a separate person from Tron- as it’s still him at the end of the day just… hurt. (there was a post awhile back comparing him to a werewolf I agree with) I also don’t think he’d just magically be himself again with no problems.
He’s going to be fighting Rinzler (himself) for the rest of his existence. It is going to haunt him for a long long time. These things he did. Horrible things he can’t fully remember, programs missing he’s sure he had a part in. It’s complicated. I really think it was a flash bang of regaining consciousness .
Legacy doesn’t really do the mirroring that 82’ does however I’d argue that Rinzler can also mirror Alan in this case!! Alan had been on the board for a long time, he’s never officially out of the company he’s just been silenced. He quips here and there but he has to control himself or otherwise he is out like that. It seems like he’s caught in just as much a leash as Rinzler, and he’s fighting it too. His funding of Flynn lives, his activity in forums, his constant attempts to reel sam in — this man is out of his mind trying to restore some kind of morality to the company. Justice -> really is a driving force and connected thing between him and Tron.
By the end of the film he’s freed in a similar way, he’s the head now and can speak a bit more freely. He’s learning to grief and repairing his relationship with Sam and Roy just as Rinz is supposedly free.
I just- again “pure hero” isn’t just a title projected onto Tron it’s textually true especially in the world of the first film.
This became more about Tron than Rinzler as his own entity but the point still stands. I talk about the dynamic more in a older post where Rinzler really gives me attack dog vibes and I didn’t want to rehash that, instead giving a new perspective. And talking about a connection I don’t think anyone’s talked about (or I’m stretching)
