hey i had an idea
fine i guess u guys WONT get to see my idea
anyway heres my idea for everyone who is NOT these two!!!
good idea op
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@theleaderofthefreeworld
hey i had an idea
fine i guess u guys WONT get to see my idea
anyway heres my idea for everyone who is NOT these two!!!
good idea op
The painful HC: Bruce's fixation w saving Gotham is partially a way to cope w suicidal tendencies. Is pretty normal to latch onto reasons to keep on living when feeling suicidal. A city is not going to randomly die, unlike Bruce's family and friends, so is easier to love and use as a reason for staying alive.
so, my opinions here are a bit complicated: i think, for the most part while he's batman, bruce is stable in this arena of his brain. in order to function as batman he couldn't not be. and i say for the most part because, directly after jason's death, bruce was deeply depressed. the broken bat volume of knightfall is literally just one extended romp in bruce's sad brain. that's............ that's the whole thing, there's a particularly weird narration box where he's talking about "going where lions lay down with lambs" which, y'know, That's Heaven Babey. That's Just Heaven Babey. but that's something that heals with time.
i specify "as batman" because, uh, batman: year one exists. and in BYO, there is a point where bruce is bleeding out in his study, staring at a bust of his father, going, "i'd rather die... than wait another hour..." because that's what it came down to. it was being batman, or letting himself die. and following BYO, a few other comics depict a younger bruce having suicidal impulses, most of which come in fantasies where he dies alongside his parents.
so basically; when bruce was younger, he was a wreck. he was a purposeless, hurt kid flailing around, and he probably went through a lot of suicidal thoughts in that time. i think it leveled out during his training, because he had a purpose, and in BYO, he is kind of down to the wire. if this doesn't work, it's over, it's just lions and lambs, bud.
and when his plan initially isn't working, he sinks back into that hole, it's - bruh, it's a fucking bat that saves his life. a bat crashes through the window. it's not the city he latches onto as a reason to live, it's the goddamn bat that busts through the window. it is pure accident. and his entire life rode on a tiny flying mammal. i emphasize this because i think it's important to remember how fractured bruce's brain was, how desperate he really was, that the first thing he is given, he latches onto and bases an entire identity around it.
this is why i can't ever accept batman as being an ugly part of bruce - it was the thing that saved him. and when the thing that saves you is a tiny bat that gives you an idea for a dumb costume you wear while helping people, i think that's a pretty damn good story. it's a bonkers story! it could only happen in comics! but it's a pretty damn good story.
Bruce or one of his kids has definitely infiltrated Scientology at some point. I mean, they gotta. He’s probably the only person rich enough to get a legal team capable of taking down their army of lawyers.
someone asked me once why i leave anon on when it's just opening me up to anon hate, and this. this is why. this is exactly why.
I don’t personally have much of an opinion on what religion Bruce is (although I guess I lean to the Jewish hc if I was pressed to answer– ties in nicely with Kate) BUT. The funniest option is definitely him being a staunch atheist because then he could drop that little bombshell in a JL meeting and everyone is just, “we literally fought Ares last week” and Bruce, being the shithead he is, is all, “yeah and I don’t believe in him. Next question.”
mr. terrific does this and it’s - i don’t even Know, it’s. a lot.
this has probably already been said but, bruce only has one dedicated belief system and it's "I believe in Harvey Dent" :D
it has been said but it bears repetition!
watching steven universe is the polar opposite of eating pussy
literally every kind of tumbler discourse is happening in the notes of this
Here’s a sampler if you don’t want to spend hours scrolling through:
When you open a full group chat after leaving it for hours
my [15M] sister [14F] broke this kid [12M] out of an iceberg and now this maniacal prince [16M] and and this crazy admiral [??M] are chasing us around the world
Hi, I [60M] have been through a similar situation with my [16M] nephew and his [??M] admiral. I have found that if you make them both a cup of calming, jasmine tea and sit down with them to talk about your problems, everything can be worked out. Add a game of Pai Sho for even better results!
instructions unclear, my [15M] princess girlfriend [16F] turned into the moon
batman: universe is really good for the following reasons
i'm so fucking validated right now. i bet batman keeps up with all the paleontology drama. maybe he runs a paleontology news blog in his spare time, or maybe he doesn't, because he doesn't actually have spare time. maybe he's a ceratopsid enthusiast, i can imagine him being a ceratopsid enthusiast. or maybe ankylosauria. do you think he'd be visibly moved if he ever went to the royal tyrrell museum and saw the nodosaur fossil they have on display? and he's just whispering to alfred, "this fossil is so complete scientists were able to discern pigment........" and alfred's internally like "oh, bother," because he's too british to care about dinosaurs.
"you're growing like a sauropod," bruce says, jokingly, to a baby dick grayson. baby dick grayson cocks his head in confusion. bruce looks nervous, and continues with, "because, uh, sauropods are the fastest growing land animals ever documented, according to -" baby dick grayson interrupts by shrieking NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD.
years later bruce will tell the same joke to damian, except damian understands it immediately and is extremely proud of his tiny spiritually-a-sauropod self, and is smirking at tim all day because soon, soon he will overtake drake in height. he will be a mighty argentinosaurus. drake is like, a fucking avimimus or something.
Bruce fucking loves dinosaurs you guys
It makes sense because Bruce's emotional development was severely stunted and he just compensates with anger and physical violence.
if i may demonstrate to you all, my dear followers, now: the most buck fucking wild conclusion ever reached on a post i have made
I’m sorry, how many rational adults purchase a jet in the shape of a bat? That’s how a 10 year old rolls.
you know what? i respect you
Any Bruce n Alfred relationship headcanons u care to share??? I love your take on them
OH BOY DO I
so, thanks to audrey, i will always run with her headcanon that alfred didn’t know how to cook, really, when he became bruce’s guardian because he was only a butler - he bossed the cooks around, instead of cooking himself. so for years while alfred Learned there were a lot of relatively easy meals, sandwiches, soups, stews, that bruce considers comfort food now.
there’s a panel in gotham knights where alfred talks about having to chase bruce down as a toddler, and this is because, as a baby, bruce may have been quiet, but he was always on the go. could not get him to sit down. this lad has frogs to find, he has turtles to document, he has trees to climb, and finding bruce was a task left to alfred for the following reason -
baby bruce was extremely and deeply interested in alfred, because, from a kid’s perspective, alfred was the Coolest. alfred spoke in a funny way, and gave bruce a funny title, and also alfred - because alfred is a naturally awkward man - tried to pay bruce as little mind as possible initially, and playing hard-to-get automatically made him interesting. bruce, even as baby, likes a challenge. so alfred eventually got the role of babysitter. bruce bit all the other babysitters.
alfred used to playact with bruce because he was really good at it, and sometimes it devolved into bruce watching alfred act out scenes in Tiny Baby Fascination
whenever baby bruce is upset alfred would make a weird face at him, and it would always, always get a surprised gurgle-laugh
bruce was a touchy-feely kid before his parents got got, so he was always hugging alfred and tugging on alfred’s pants leg and holding alfred’s hand and alfred was very [britishly explodes internally] about it
they fought a lot when bruce was a teen. they fought a lot because bruce as a teen was a bastard. i mean, he was always a bastard, but when he hit thirteen he became a Bastarde. there were periods during this time where alfred and bruce only communicated in shouts for weeks, and those weeks were followed by weeks where if alfred said anything even slightly reprimanding, bruce would burst into tears, because Hormones mixed with Mental Illness do not a good combination make. can you imagine having a kid that is an absolute wreck just walk out of your life to go globetrotting and learn to crack open a can of whoop ass from ninjas? how wild would that be.
how heartbroke would you be, actually, because i think those years bruce was gone were some of the hardest in alfred’s life because there was nothing to focus on but a big old empty house and the very rare communication from your boy and the fact that you are worried, and very worried.
i can’t handle the canon that says bruce and alfred had no contact while bruce was training, i can’t, it makes me sad, so i like to think bruce wrote sometimes and came to visit sometimes, and each time he came to visit alfred would have to take a moment to Collect Himself because his boy is so grown now
alfred still has those moments. alfred will see bruce interacting with a batkid and have a sudden rush of extreme fondness for this kid who grew into a man that risks life and limb every night to try and make gotham a better place, this kid who grew into a man with kids of his own.
whenever alfred has a bad day he gets a Bat Hug and maybe he britishly squirms some but it’s nice, to have his kid there, in his arms, when bruce has been nearly and actually ripped away from him so many times
Honestly I can’t imagine Bruce visiting home during his training tour, because that would screw with the sharp mental categorization he was using to reinvent himself and gain a sense of control over his identity and his trauma. Batman thinks intensely in symbols, and I think having a sharply delineated ‘before’ and ‘after’ was important to his process.
So imo if he was going to see Alfred in person during that period, Alfred has to have come to him.
(Or they met up in London or something; it’s not like Alfred was physically tied to the house with no one in it. I dislike picturing this purely because it reminds me of Nolan’s stupid trilogy’s stupid ending; on its own merits it’s charming.)
But I like to think there were postcards. An occasional phone call. Maybe on his birthdays. ‘Hey Alfred, not dead, another year down.’
Supplement, I have to assume part of the appeal of Alfred to Baby Bruce was that he was the most recognizable/routinely present adult whose business in no way concerned Bruce.
His parents doted. Whoever the Waynes hired to supplement childcare was probably a highly trained professional and their only reason for being in the same room as Bruce was to pay attention to him.
Not only is Alfred the kind of awkward person who would try not to engage like you say jd, he was structurally not focused on Bruce in a way that would make Getting His Attention a challenge for what I tend to assume was a child spoiled in the best possible fashion.
oh god kieron the inherent comedy of “hey alfred, not dead, another year down” is kind of swaying me - as much as it hurts me in very sensitive jersey-soul-parts to imagine them not seeing each other, that appeals to me on a comedic level, because that’s just………… can you imagine alfred saving postcards and re-reading them at times he’s really missing bruce, and it’s just. Not dead yet. - BW like i’m simultaneously sad and HOWLING with laughter
what i appreciate about your headcanons is that you take it a step further than i do and just really get into it, it’s always fun to read
A brief overview of Batman and capital-R Religion, or, the post you guys made me write because you kept saying things were canon that weren’t
I’m writing with capital letters in this post, because this is an Issue, and this is a write-up of an Issue. The first rule of this post is, there’s not to be any fucking around on this post; discussion will be conducted respectfully, or it will not be conducted. The second rule of this post is, ordinarily, I am a proponent of ignoring the canon, and doing whatever you want - I think everyone has full license to play with these characters however they want. But because there’s so many people citing specific ideas as canon, that are not canon, or are only canon in specific continuities, that we’re going to play around in the big well of canon. We’re also going to take Word of God input from creators as something of note. Third rule of this post is, I’m talking about Batman. I am talking about Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Wayne only, because this is already a long enough discussion. Fourth rule, you might notice that there are creators in this write-up that you might realize I personally do not like and do not support - unfortunately, they’re here because they’re creators whose viewpoints have had a massive effect on Batman as a character. Whenever performing any kind of serious analysis of Batman, I cannot ignore Frank Miller because of the significant effect his work has had, as much as I would like to never speak of Frank Miller again. Let’s get to it.
Historically, the debate has been whether Batman was a lapsed Catholic or lapsed Episcopalian, and has recently extended to include Judaism as a possibility. The reason the debate has extended to Batman possibly being Jewish is because DC Rebirth retconned Kate Kane, Batwoman, a Jewish lesbian, as being Bruce’s cousin and Martha Wayne’s niece. This is a retcon, and was not canon until DC Rebirth. When Batwoman was reinvented in 2006, the Kane family was separate from the Waynes, and the two were not related. This opens up the potential for Batman to be Jewish because of the matrilineal tradition of Judaism, which states that a person born to a Jewish mother has irrevocable status as a Jew. As the Kanes are a Jewish family, this opens the possibility that Batman is also, through his mother, is Jewish. There is a depiction of Batman as a Jewish freedom fighter in Nazi Germany in Berlin Batman, which is really fucking good by-the-by, but it’s an Elseworlds, and out of continuity. This is all pretty fucking cool, but a really recent development, and one that DC has not capitalized on, depicted, or encouraged in any way through their comics. In fact, in Tom King’s Batman #53, solidly in the Rebirth continuity, a significant portion of fans read Bruce as being an atheist, and Bruce’s father is depicted as a Christian.
(Batman #53, and it’s important to note that later King said he didn’t intend to write Bruce as an atheist, despite the fans’ popular reading of it.)
Bruce being an atheist specifically is not new:
(JLA #66. Joe Kelly is pretty fond of Bruce being an atheist.)
(Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader by Neil Gaiman)
I find this a little bit bonkers, considering it’s canon in the DC Universe that there’s a God, a bunch of other Gods, a heaven, a bunch of other heavens, and Bruce was on the Justice League with a literal angel of Heaven at one point in time. I find it weird when they do this with Mr. Terrific, too.
Another connection Batman has to Judaism is through his creators, Bob Kane and Bill Finger, who were both Jewish men. However, there are no early depictions of Batman as Jewish; the depictions of him engaging with religion are scant, except for his engagements with Christmas - which there are plenty. There have been a number of Christmas stories written with Batman over the years, and, in fact, the very first one was in Batman #9, penned by Bob Kane and Bill Finger themselves. (Well, I don’t know if Bob Kane penned it, because Bob Kane had a veritable army of ghostartists. But his name sure is on it.) This wasn’t the only Bat-Christmas story published under their watch - Bill Finger went on to work on Batman #45, another classic Bat-Christmas story.
(Batman #9)
(Batman #45)
In the vast, vast majority of Batman comics, Bruce is separated from religion entirely - which benefits DC, because it makes him more marketable. But this isn’t the case with every comic, as he’s depicted praying:
(Secret Origins #6)
And there’s another notable instance where Bruce engages with religion, and it’s in Batman: The Chalice, written by Chuck Dixon; Bruce is the descendant of a line of knights tasked with protecting the Holy Grail. Chuck Dixon has a few opinions on Bruce’s religion: “Graham Nolan and I had an ongoing argument about whether Bruce was raised Catholic or Protestant. I recently conceded to Graham that he must be Catholic. No Protestant ever suffered guilt the way Bruce does.”
Which, holy shit, I could talk about that all day, because that’s fucking WILD, Chuck. Through this we can presume that Bruce is depicted as Catholic in Batman: The Chalice, even though the book never specifies a denomination, and that book was canonical for its continuity. Unfortunately that was a couple continuities ago, and we can no longer be sure! How fun comics are. Another notable creator that argues Bruce is Catholic is the one, the only, fucking goddamn Frank Miller, who argues strongly for the case and wrote some pretty religious lines into The Dark Knight Returns.
The Dark Knight Returns is non-canonical, which also happens to be the one example that exists of God’s love for me, because if it was actually canon I would’ve given up on this whole charade a long time ago. But The Dark Knight Returns has had a massive, incredible impact on how Batman is conceived of as a character, which means people take Frank Miller’s opinion seriously, and a lot of people therefore are very solid in the belief that Bruce Wayne is a Catholic. The argument rests in the idea that Bruce behaves psychologically like someone raised Catholic, which, like, fucking - holy shit. You guys. It might be the childhood trauma that led to Bruce’s guilt complex, not the Catholicism, and Batman comics’ over-usage of Catholic imagery might just be because Catholic imagery kind of fucking rocks, but you know, who am I to judge.
Other arguments rest with Bruce being Episcopalian, and these arguments are more related to Bruce’s socioeconomic status, because he’s honestly as WASPy as they come, and in One Time Lost To Comics History, one of Bruce’s ancestors was buried at an Episcopal church. Elliot S. Maggin, a Jewish man most well-known for his work with Superman, has a few things to say on this subject: “I give all my characters religions. I think I always have. It’s part of the backstory. It’s part of the process of getting to know a character well enough to write about him or her. Jimmy Olson is Lutheran. Lois is Catholic. Perry is Baptist. Luthor is Jewish (though non-observant, thank heaven). Bruce and Batman are both Episcopalian and I said so in the text though it was edited out erroneously.”
A lot of people try to reverse-engineer Bruce’s religion with are the gravestones, which is like, a buckwild way to do it. The Waynes (and our dear Jason Todd) have been depicted with everything from heaving monuments to plain headstones to simple Christian crosses to the angel-bearing gravestones Bruce sobs over in Tim Sale and Jeph Loeb’s The Long Halloween. The most extravagant is probably from Mike W. Barr, Alan Davis, and Todd McFarlane’s Batman: Year Two -
There is a lot of imagery of Bruce hugging his parents’ gravestones, because he is kind of a fucked up man. Don’t judge him. Leave him alone. He wants to be gothic and weird and cry alone in the dark in a cemetery and dammit, goths have rights. Point being, the gravestones in Bruce’s family change with every artist that depicts them, and it’s impossible to pin anything definitive down because everything is done for aesthetic. Kind of goes back to the extensive usage of Catholic imagery, like how Bruce and Selina [checks watch] seven continuities ago were married in a Catholic church - I honestly think that a lot of these artistic decisions are made purely for the aesthetic instead of trying to subtly communicate any particular religious belief on Bruce’s part.
What was the point of writing this post? Mostly to tell you guys that Chuck Dixon said something ridiculously hilarious about Catholicism. I could unpack Dixon’s implication of Bruce’s Catholic guilt for days, because it’s fucking funny. But the secondary point is - no one has agreed on anything. Industry professionals can’t agree on this! There is no one thing that is specifically canon across all continuities in every instance, even the idea that Bruce is a lapsed whatever-it-is-that-he-is, which is something that the majority of people agree on anyway. You may headcanon away! In fact I would be pretty interested in hearing your headcanons, so hit me up, and please follow Chuck Dixon’s example and give me really hilarious reasons for Bruce to be Catholic. Remember, guys. Childhood trauma doesn’t give you guilt complexes, but Catholicism does. God. Fucking Chuck Dixon.
Bruce is obviously a Catholic bc that means instead of going to therapy he goes to a confessional and boom, you’re good to go.
OKAY BUT OKAY THE THING IS THAT BRUCE HAS THOSE TIMES WHERE HE FEELS GUILTY FOR EXISTING SO THE THING IS
bruce, who has been in confession for three hours: ........ and at 5:30, i dropped a piece of paper and alfred picked it up for me -
the priest: please. please. please. plea
I like to think Bruce is apatheistic. He knows there are gods, he just doesn’t care.
KLDSFLAHGKAGHAKLHGLSDHGHSGLKSGHKFSGH i like this word that you’ve invented, anon
Yoooo 😂😂😂😂 Yes she was 😭😭
Autotuned person: So, when I still worked at Olive Garden, this lady asked me for a salad without vegetables. And then I was really confused. So I told her, “Ma’am, our salads are mostly lettuce, which is a vegetable”. And she got really really frustrated with me, and started raising her voice, and said, “I. WANT. A. SALAD. WITHOUT VEGETABLES!” and I just didn’t know what to do. So I came back with a plate of croutons and the cheese grater. And then she got even more mad at me because I didn’t bring tomatoes. And she told me that tomatoes were a fruiiii~t. And before you ask, yes she was.
A simple yet wondrous robot design!
(Source)