Being Paul McCartney, 1967.
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@theliterarybeatle
Being Paul McCartney, 1967.
When you think about it, The Ballad of John and Yoko is essentially a Nerk Twins song and I don't know how either of them survived that level of insane situationship
Muach
Hi! First of all, thank you so much for your meticulous work of compiling the quotes and getting all the sources linked + for your measured and level-headed responses. We are as a fandom truely in luck to have a responsable and careful person in charge of tinhatting.
You possibly had it posted already, and I just might have missed it - but do you have a compilation of rumours or/and unverified gossip? Definitely not trying to make them seem true and make decisive conclusions based on them, but I'm curious if there's any overlap in reports.
I don't think I've ever made a post exclusively about rumors/unverified gossip, but I do know quite a few that I've read or heard myself:
Paul and John were reportedly seen holding hands backstage during the filming of The Music of Lennon & McCartney TV special. Another person said their granddad worked on the special and claimed that John and Paul were extremely intensely close: if one sat down, the other did too; if one got up, the other did as well. They also said John and Paul would stare at each other for long periods of time, and that people working in production made jokes about it.
Someone who was friends with a celebrity who was once at an event where Paul was said that, at one point, Paul started talking about John and how much he missed him. That he went on and on saying that it bothered him that he missed John more as time went on, that it just didn't heal, and that he missed everything about John, even the arguments.
There are rumors that John and Paul were sometimes seen walking Martha around London while holding hands.
That one of the reasons Paul and Jane broke up was because Jane was uncomfortable with Paul and John's relationship (and, btw, they seem to have ended their engagement before Paul was with Francie, so it wasn't because she supposedly found them in bed together.) Ray Connolly (who knew Jane and spoke to her after the breakup, also hinted at this.
Someone claimed that his grandfather was a taxi driver in Liverpool, and that a few days after John's murder, Paul went to Liverpool and took his taxi. He supposedly wanted to visit many random places around Liverpool that seemed particularly memorable or important to him and John.
A woman claimed to be acquainted with a music producer who knew Paul. They started talking about John and Paul, and he said that Paul does believe Just Like Starting Over is about him. She then said to him that she believed John and Paul had been "a couple," and he replied, "Well, no shit!"
In the 80s, Paul apparently used to go to Liverpool a lot, according to locals, to take nostalgic walks around Merseyside (which, of course, is very reminiscent of the lyrics of Get Enough).
A fellow Tumblr user said that an acquaintance's father used to be a part-time driver for the Beatles, and that he heard rumors among the staff about John and Paul's relationship.
A person who claimed to have worked in the industry between roughly 1967 and 1970 said that Yoko gave a very watered-down version of the names the studio staff had for Paul, and that they also had a very derogatory nickname for John.
They also apparently used to make jokes about how much time John spent at Paul's house around 1967 (this is something I was told).
Diana Ross supposedly saw John and Paul together at a gay bar in Los Angeles around 1974. Tom Doyle's 70s book, Man on the Run, claims that John and Paul were seen together backstage at the 1974 Grammy Awards, also in LA, talking and laughing together.
An Apple Scruff said that she and her friends did notice there was something unusual about John and Paul's dynamic, but they didn't quite understand it at the time because they were quite naive about homosexuality.
That Ringo and George were supposedly uncomfortable with the subject if someone asked them anything, however indirectly, about John and Paul's relationship, and generally preferred to remain silent.
That John and Paul "being more than friends" is kind of an open secret in the music industry, and that this is why you see people like Howard Stern often pressing Paul about it. (Btw, something interesting I found is that Tony Manero—the guy who claimed John made advances toward him at a bar in the 70s and that he supposedly told him, "You're prettier than Paulie. You have a nicer mouth than him. Paulie's got a small mouth."—actually went to Howard's show in the 90s).
Eric Griffiths (who was there at the fete) supposedly said that when Paul started playing for John, he was visibly nervous and his voice cracked at one point, and that John (who was drunk) reached over and stroked his hair. He also allegedly called him "Little Elvis."
A person who claimed to know a woman who was one of Paul's assistants in the early 2000s said that Paul is bisexual and makes no secret of it within his inner circle. They also claimed that Paul often talks about John in the present tense (saying things like, "John thinks the music should be like this"). This, of course, reminds me of what Peter Cox said after meeting Paul in the late 80s: that Paul would say things like, "John thinks this," or "John says that."
Someone said they had a friend who met Paul at a party in LA. They chatted for a long time, hugged at one point, and Paul supposedly whispered to her, "Nobody has hugged me like that since John."
Supposedly, around 1966–1967, Paul hosted a lot of parties at Cavendish, and some guests were shocked by John and Paul's behavior there, saying they acted almost like a couple.
Paul was allegedly often overly concerned about where John was and what he was doing. When he couldn't reach him, he would sometimes theorize about what John was up to and become angry. If someone questioned his behavior, he would snap at them
Many girls who dated Paul allegedly questioned his sexuality, which bothered him greatly. That he hated being called "queer" and tried to compensate by dating lots of women (which, tbh, kind of fits with his later "I'm secure in my sexuality" and "I'm obviously ungay due to my hunting of female hordes" mantra that he kept bringing up, unprompted, for decades. He would also tell John Dunbar that there were a lot of rumours about him being gay).
A woman who worked on the Help! music video claimed that John and Paul's behavior behind the scenes was "cute," and that after spending some time with them, it became clear to her that they were deeply in love. She also said that George and Ringo would sort of wander away whenever John and Paul began "chatting up each other" (journalist Phyllis Batelle described a somewhat similar dynamic, with John and Paul always together and "turning out" the other two whenever "they were on").
That John wrote in his diary that his dreams were usually about Liverpool and Paul.
'"that was the day," john lennon said, ten years later, "the day that i met paul, that it started moving."'
'a technical necessity resulted in the distinct and thrilling aesthetic effect of two men who share the same 'I' - the same consciousness.'
'paul and john have a way of tuning out the others.'
'john says it out loud: "it's like you and me are lovers."'
'paul described their locking eyes on that first LSD trip with john: "like, just staring and then saying, "i know, man", and then laughing..."'
quotes from 'john & paul, a love story in songs' by ian leslie
"Well, [The Beatles] get along remarkably well under the circumstances", observed the wife of an important member of their movie crew, "But Paul and John have a way of turning out the others when they're on. George and Ringo sometimes sort of wander away." (Phyllis Batelle, during the filming of the Help! movie)
"I found this out from my mother who was a 'go for' for a music director in the 60's. She worked behind the scenes for the 'Help!' music video. She has seen John and Paul backstage and always refers to their behaviour around each other as cute, and claims after spending a few minutes with them it was obvious they were deeply in love. She said that George and Ringo would always excuse themselves whenever John and Paul began chatting up each other.” (Datalounge comment)
I just read a comment under one of your previous posts that says, "Yearning in silence for years is something John Lennon would NOT do." I agree. But if he didn't yearn in silence and in some way he did let Paul know of his attraction/love to him, what do you think happened behind the scenes? And I know John was impulsive but what if John never made any moves fearing Paul didn't feel the same?
Great questions. I ponder on them a lot. This is why the classic "John finally made a move in India and Paul rejected him" line of thought has always baffled me. Because yes, the list of men John made moves on or openly kissed just seems to keep growing, lol. He was definitely not shy about it, and as I've said before, he was doing this since at least the early 60s, when he kissed Icke Braun on the mouth (while Paul was in the same room). Icke even said that John was considered a closet case by homosexuals at the time, and Stu's sister said something similar, though she claimed John had even been open about himself to others within the Beatles circle, but that most of them chose not to publicly acknowledge it. But anyway, as for the idea that John feared Paul didn't feel the same and therefore never tried anything, I can see why people might think that, but I don't think that was the case. John was very perceptive of Paul's emotions and perfectly knew when Paul was jealous of Yoko (he explicitly said that he understood this because Paul was the one who had all his "love and attention" before Yoko). And I'm pretty sure the bad blood between Stu and Paul was even more obvious. Multiple people from those early years talked about it. They could all sense it (even Cynthia), and I doubt John was the exception. So if John was attracted to Paul from the start (which seems to have been the case), but also noticed Paul's possessiveness of him, his intense jealousy over Stu, and may-or-may-not have suspected that some of that jealousy stemmed from Paul's suspicions about the nature of his relationship with Stu (as Pauline believes), then I don't think it's very likely at all that John would simply think, "Yeah, I like Paul, but I doubt he feels the same, so I will hide my feelings." Given that he kissed Icke, Fred Seaman, and tried to kiss a guy at a bar in the 70s (and god knows who else) despite there being absolutely no signs of reciprocation from any of them, I think he likely would have tested the waters with Paul anyway. And I do believe that John was aware, at least to some extent, in the early days that Paul felt something more than ordinary friendship for him, something that only became more visible once Stu came into the picture. I can easily imagine John enjoying the spectacle of two guys fighting over him, lol. So I don't really see him thinking, "Nah, this guy will never like me that way." John knew he held a unique, all-consuming space in Paul’s life, so I doubt he would have assumed that making a move was a completely hopeless cause.
So, to answer your question about what would likely have happened behind the scenes if John made a move, (which I think did happen, and much earlier than 1967, given his impulsiveness, lack of boundaries, and likely perception that Paul felt something too), let's look at least at four possible scenarios:
Something like a drunken pass, a flirtatious comment, an attempt at a kiss, or a suggestive joke that wasn't entirely a joke. Paul rejects it or ignores it. John (and/or Paul) laughs it off and they never discuss it again.
John tested the waters more carefully and indirectly. Rather than making an overt move, he flirted ambiguously or made comments that could be interpreted in more than one way. Paul understood but chose not to engage. John either kept doing this for a while and got the same response, or never attempted it again.
Something did happen one or a few times. For example, a drunken, mutual kiss or some form of physical affection that crossed a line. Both later treated it as a joke or something not worth discussing (Or maybe Paul did feel the same but didn't want to act on it).
John made a move (or several). Paul reciprocated, at least to some extent. Both engaged in things regularly or on and off, enough that John felt somewhat satisfied for quite a few years. It didn't make things awkward between them, and their relationship continued growing increasingly close until 1967.
The main problem I have with the first two scenarios is that if John made a move, either direct or more ambiguous, and Paul either rejected it, ignored it, or laughed it off, I think John would have been extremely hurt, given how much we know he loved Paul—a love that, in my opinion, existed right up until his death. If John felt his feelings were completely neglected, rejected, or maybe appreciated but not reciprocated by the person he cared about most, I can't shake the feeling that their relationship would have changed drastically or even collapsed much earlier than 1968. And if Paul didn't feel the same, I think it would have made things awkward for him too, knowing that John liked him that way. And John, let's be honest, was not exactly hiding the way he felt about Paul, lol. Just look at the way he looked at him. That look never really changed throughout the 60s. Paul would have to be blind not to notice it. And Paul did the same. They both did, often and openly. If Paul knew John was attracted to him and was genuinely uncomfortable with it, then their behavior throughout most of the 60s becomes much harder to explain.
Because what we actually see is:
spending huge amounts of time alone together,
John spending more time at Paul's house than any of the other Beatles did, often staying overnight,
sharing hotel rooms during tours even when they didn't have to,
sharing rooms or bungalows on vacations together,
comfortably skinny-dipping,
maintaining their closeness even after girlfriends entered the picture,
and often prioritizing each other over those girlfriends (that's what Jane seems to have felt, and it's something a lot of insiders noticed too)
Their dynamic was so intense that people around them started coming up with nicknames mocking the relationship. Yoko, Francie, and even Maggie all noticed the intensity between them and, to varying degrees, expressed the belief that something was going on. Many of their male friends said some version of the same thing: they were closer than any two men they had ever seen. A journalist in 1965 said that she wanted to talk to Paul alone, but found it impossible to seperate him from John (and she spent DAYS with the Beatles, btw). If you know your best friend is in love with you or finds you attractive, do you usually become increasingly close to them? Or do you feel awkward, create distance, and set boundaries? Whatever happened between John and Paul, the evidence doesn't seem to point toward the latter. So if Paul noticed John's attraction, the possibilities that seem most consistent with their behavior are:
He didn't interpret it as threatening because it was expressed in such a joking or ambiguous way that he saw it as harmless.
He found it flattering.
He simply accepted it as part of who John was and didn't have a problem with it.
Or he felt the same, and showed varying degrees of reciprocation to the point John didn't really feel ignored (which, as you all know, is what I personally believe).
What seems much less likely, given what we know, is a scenario in which John—whether once or repeatedly—made unwanted advances and Paul repeatedly rejected or ignored them. If John felt completely rejected by the person he cared about most, then I would expect some lasting effect on the relationship. Not necessarily a complete breakup, but something. Because I don't see John as the type of person who would quietly accept emotional rejection and carry on exactly as before, yearning and suffering in silence. But we don't really have evidence that their relationship greatly suffered or became awkward because John made an unwanted move that left Paul feeling uncomfortable. Remember: their relationship was so strong that Paul himself said that John becoming so close to Yoko left him feeling left out, which partly pushed him toward Linda. It was so strong that whenever John talked about how much he loved Yoko, Paul appeared disturbed and jealous. It was so strong that Jane said she was jealous of Paul's relationship with John. It was so strong that George Martin described them as "intensely" close, said Paul would do almost anything for John, and claimed that before Yoko and Linda, John and Paul were each other's most important person, even above Jane and Cynthia. It was so strong that Yoko felt John's anger toward Paul was disproportionate and this left her wondering what was it really about (and pretty much said she suspected John was in love with Paul). Their bond was so strong that they essentially spurred each other into marriage once new partners entered the picture. It was so strong that Paul said his relationship with John couldn't continue as it was without Yoko feeling insecure and that John had to put him away if he wanted to start a new relationship (!!!). And it was so strong that he wrote an often-overlooked verse in Too Many People about now having someone new (Linda) waiting for him. And that's before we even get into the other songs they wrote about each other.
I just don't think it's very likely there was a scenario where one of them was hopelessly yearning for the other in secret because he felt that the other didn't feel the same, and yet both remained so happy (mostly) and intensely connected for most of the 60s. We see them being mostly content together throughout that decade (though, like every intense relationship, they certainly had problems and it was rather volatile). Their relationship reached its peak around 1967 before beginning to collapse the following year. If John made a move, I think it happened quite early, given his impulsiveness. And if that happened, I don't think what he received in return was total rejection. I can imagine Paul being more hesitant and guarded in the beginning, even if he felt something similar. But between roughly 1961 and 1967, with some exceptions, their relationship only seemed to grow in intensity rather than becoming awkward or uncomfortable. The observable level of closeness between them was extraordinary, even by the standards of best friends. The relationship seems too comfortable, too voluntary, and too mutually invested for such a straightforward one-sided rejection story. So if one starts from the premise that John had romantic feelings and communicated them to Paul in some way, directly or indirectly, I think a scenario involving some level of reciprocity or encouragement from Paul fits the observed closeness better than a scenario of long-term, clearly understood rejection. The leap from there to exactly what that reciprocity looked like is where the evidence runs out and speculation begins. But the idea that Paul gave John something meaningful in return—whether emotional, affectionate, romantic, or some combination of those things—strikes me as far more consistent with their continued closeness than a picture of John repeatedly hitting a wall for over two decades. And whatever happened between them behind the scenes in the 60s was whatever John had in mind when he later said, "How come nobody never asked, 'What's going on backstage? What is this Paul and John business? How can they be together for so long?'" 😶
oh get a roooom
hello ive caught the mclennon bug again
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still expecting the biopics to warrant a “here’s my review: not gay enough” reaction but i am interested in whatever is going on here…
hi guys outsourcing opinions here this is the same badge. right. the one that says um. the love of my life. which could mean nothing.
Paul McCartney, Stuart Sutcliffe (1961) Photographer: Mike McCartney
"You dissolve into each other"
Just listening to this: Johns improvised tune dubbed 'Nightmares', from a 1974 jam session during the 'lost weekend', which included Paul, Stevie Wonder and Harry Nilsson. although it's played to the song 'sleepwalk' by Santo and Johnny. He makes some Beatles references midway as the tune slips into 'Oh Darling' for a brief moment, then he says "as I saw me standing there, I said jee, is that me?" At the end you can hear Paul vocalising. The full bootleg called 'A Toot And A Snore In 74' mostly consists of drug fuelled jamming and 3 takes of Ben E Kings 'Stand by me' but most notably John and Paul's Duet of Little Richard's ‘Lucille’. This would be the last time they ever played together, on record anyway. https://youtu.be/P7iZQPkQeTw?si=JpzZQkZL4WQPfLda
All of the full songs they got around to playing were oldies that had been quite formative for John and Paul as teens.