I’ve seen women get in relationships and be a complete damn #mess. They become so difficult to deal with and make it almost impossible to be happy with their negativity, nasty attitudes and petty arguments. Can we stop this ridiculous mindset that men can’t be victims in marriages & relationships? That they can’t get fed up emotionally and physically? Cause some of y'all be treating dudes like trash and expect me to feel sorry for you…
Women cheat. Women are abusive. Women are manipulative. Women are controlling. Women are liars. Destroy the idea that we can’t or don’t do any of those things!
These types of posts are really counterproductive and don’t actually serve to break any gender norms or harmful preconceptions about how gender works, for lack of a better way of describing it, because all you’re doing is pulling that finger-pointing “you do it too!” back at women, which is usually an argument used to derail convos about how women face abuse at the hands of men. Yes, women can (imo using “are” implies an inherent characteristic which? isn’t helpful here) be as abusive as men. What does that change? Especially when you’re classifying it as a “ridiculous mindset”?
To me, this is skirting around the issue that these concepts are forced on us by the idea that women are inherently nurturing/caring/fragile and men are disciplinary/“objective”/strong, which fits into the larger narrative of heteronormativity (ie. the fact that you only thought to mention a man/woman relationship specifically, as opposed to just talking about women in general) and the binary (ie. man && woman are the only genders) && “traditional relationship” standards (ie. one person must be dominant, one person must be submissive).
Minimizing that as a “ridiculous mindset” ignores the way that these issues permeate virtually every facet of our lives and how we look at the people && relationships around us. We are predisposed to these ideas because that is what we’re constantly being fed && told whether it’s by our families, the media, the people that we’re in relationships, or some other socializing source.
It’s also a reductive argument because the people who are talked about in these man/woman contexts are primarily cis folk, which is not only extremely limiting but ignores the fact that trans folk face serious domestic violence && abuse rates above and beyond what cis people do because they are devalued because of their gender. That conversation doesn’t get had either because it doesn’t support the narrative of “there is man, there is woman, and this is how they are supposed to behave”.
People of any background can face abuse and people of any background can be abusive. There are certain types of abuse that are more common or are perpetuated at higher rates from one group to another, and it’s valid to critique those in specific contexts, but by and large the conversation has to move away from this man-to-woman v. woman-to-man narrative.
The only analogy I can really think of is with race. Being Black and suffering from racism && anti-Blackness, it doesn’t help me in trying to find a voice for myself && other Black people by simply trying to say “well if White people can do it, I can do it too!” I don’t want to emulate White people’s abuse and oppression, I want to be free of the narrative that any one race necessarily has to be superior to everyone else in order for the world to function. I don’t want to just switch who is in that oppressive role, I want to be free of the system that creates those roles. If all we do is start letting other races off because “White people don’t get in trouble for this”, we’re not really changing anything, and the problem becomes cyclical.
When we keep that narrative, we’re still perpetuating the concepts that are producing your original issue (ie. the idea that men don’t suffer abuse in relationships, and specifically that they don’t face abuse from women). Until we change our position on the root of the issue, all you’re dealing with is shallow surface issues, and we can’t change those in any permanent or meaningful way if we’re not changing our base principles.
Not to mention the fact that “women are liars” and “women are manipulative" and “women are controlling” ARE harmful stereotypes that exist? And are frequently used to discount women’s accounts of sexual, emotional, and physical abuse (or even, in some cases, used by men to justify their abuse or mistreatment of women). Because unlike men, women are a marginalized group and so making generalizations about women has a different effect than making generalizations about men.
>A woman tells people that women can be shitty too and that it’s unfair to make it seem like they’re better. >Some people say that since it isn’t about transgendered or about race that it doesn’t matter. >Saying that women are a marginalized group somehow makes it ok to abuse men or even transgendered men. >Despite the fact that women get far more in support and taken seriously, male victims are given the shit end of the stick, usually made fun of, taken as the abuser instead of the victim in 1/3 of the events. >The mere concept that only talking about women, minorities, transgendered people will somehow make everything equal.
Shit, c’mon people, don’t put everything in one post. This was made originally as a “Don’t hold women up on some pedestal and think we can never be a abuser.” Then all of a sudden, people start throwing in racism, race, gender identities, etc. Fucking christ Tumblr.
First of all, “transgendered” is not a word, it’s transgender. Second of all, you clearly didn’t read or have severely misinterpreted what I personally said.
I used race specifically as an analogy (“The only analogy I can really think of is with race. Being Black and suffering from racism && anti-Blackness, it doesn’t help me in trying to find a voice for myself && other Black people by simply trying to say “well if White people can do it, I can do it too!””), I wasn’t saying anything about the original post needing to critique race.
Nowhere ANYWHERE did I say that the topic didn’t matter. I literally added to the post BECAUSE IT MATTERS and reducing it to simple “man v. woman” or “woman v. man” does not help abuse survivors nor does it help the preconceived notions we have about abuse.
Nowhere did I ever say that men do not face abuse, nor did I say that women cannot be abusers. I specifically said “Yes, women can […] be as abusive as men. What does [making that statement] that change? Especially when you’re classifying it as a “ridiculous mindset”?”“
My entire point, which I very clearly stated in the last paragraph, is that the original post’s logic && assumptions perpetuate the same concepts that underly the issue they were asking to be changed.
My entire point was that we have to consider the root factors so that the consequences of those factors can be changed.
I did not say they were wrong nor did I invalidate their statement, I simply said that there was more to consider than the narrow “women can be as toxic as men” rhetoric. It wasn’t about “putting everything on one post”, it’s about addressing the reality of abuse and the way that we only talk about it in 1 or 2 scenarios, because nobody wants to do the work of looking at the whole picture.
Narrow and short-sighted “critiques” do not help survivors or victims of abuse, you’re just using us as a bullet point on your Things I Got Validation For thru Tumblr Dot Com™ agenda; it’s offensive, disrespectful, and exploitative.
Don’t talk about an issue if you aren’t willing to have a conversation on the nuances related to that issue, ESPECIALLY if you’re going to ignore people who are actually affected by the issue pointing out how your ~Discourse~ fails to address the problems we actually face.
transgendered is an adjective, therefore a word.
And yes, there are many valid genders, however, for the most part. Science looks at the two main sexualities for research, since having outliers causes difficult to explain in math, unless delving more into those outliers. I suppose the OP had created this post, simply because of the overwhelming amount of posts and news articles, videos, or jokes making fun of male abuse victims. However, I’m not the OP, so I won’t talk about their perspective.
If you’re seriously thinking that people would really derail conversations about women’s abuse while still having more than 2 brain cells to rub together, then that would be a problem in of itself. Sadly, there are people, but these people are usually the types who are “lost causes” otherwise known as Alt-Right or just plain old assholes. That word will be important later.
It can be said that you’re pulling the exact same card that you’re arguing against, the “ because all you’re doing is pulling that finger-pointing “you do it too!” back at women, which is usually an argument used to derail convos about how women face abuse at the hands of men.” Which can be seen as derailing that post into “talking about this is relevant because A happens more to us.” When it feels a lot like an excuse to allow this sort of behavior to keep being repeated.
This IS for cases of transgendered male or female living with their spouses, who face even higher cases of domestic abuse, and yet. Statistically speaking, lesbian couples are the highest percentage of domestic abuse and male gay couples are the least.
The root factors are simple. This is reality, not what ifs and what we COULD do to change things. When in reality, it would be better to point it out, say it like it is, and try to fix it. It’ll be quicker and easier than going into potentially a hundred year study then try and figure out the best way to have a compromise. Abstract Article
In terms of reciprocal domestic abuse or physical fights, men tend to be the one at fault, at about all relationships between “hetero-normative” couples, is about 24% had relationship abuse in them. Of the 24%, a little less than 50%, about 49.7% reciprocally violent, meaning that both parties perpetrated the fighting. That being said, violence between couples isn’t a valid option nor be encouraged as one. However, the other 50.3%, was non-reciprocal, meaning it wasn’t perpetrated by only one party, or none at all. But I’m jumping the gun.
Back to reciprocal violence between couples. We know, according to this article (I’ve listed it before the last paragraph) that only 24% of couples have Domestic Violence, which is what I’ll be using from now on. Only 49.7% were reciprocal, which means that two parties, in this case, and what the OP was saying, between male and female. Doesn’t fully matter if transgendered since they’re male and female respectively, such as transgender males should be considered male and vice versa. The two parties were making the other angry, usually insulting, fighting, yelling. A very nasty situation. Men tend to be the first ones to hit or do Domestic Violence. However, according to this article, which was fact checked and rummaged through possibly more than I dare count, states that out of 11,370 people, usually been through on average 3.1 relationships in 5 years. 24.8% of men in relationships were victimized, while women had 28.8%. That’s not much of a difference, not even 5% difference. Then when we look at the people who perpetuate the fighting. We see something strange. 17.3% of men start intimate partner violence, and women have 35.5%. Which raises a question. Based on this, where did the notion that men beat up women more? I found that a bit odd. Onto non-reciprocal violence. 50.3% of the 24% of relationships that got involved with IPV, Intimate Partner Violence, the vast majority were women, over 70% of them, 74.9%, while for the opposite, it’s 32.3%. This is still odd.
Article
Here, is what that type of statement could change. It could bring to light the fact that male partner abuse is legitimately possible, if not will happen. And possibly one of the biggest reasons why it isn’t taken seriously, is because of the “Battered Husband Syndrome” where it is considered awful to be beaten, so much so that the Husband would be ridiculed, possibly beaten more, or just ignored. Then, there’s a smaller, although just as important thing to note, that men just simply don’t feel comfortable telling something that this happened. According to this article, even in the 1970s, the rates were almost even in IPV, just some variations in HOW it happens, mainly physical fighting. It also states that a similar study on this could be based on false evidence because it picked their subjects from Domestic Violence reports, instead of through the general public.
This isn’t a new concept that we’re just discovering. Which is just even more depressing when people say “Hey, listen!” and then are told to shut up and try and figure out the core problems, which, due to Occam’s Razor, could be very simple answers and questions, and they would work well than delving into the incomprehensible.
And I am talking as someone whose lived through abuse, not physical abuse, thankfully. But emotional abuse as well as manipulation. Because I’m one of them, I’m sickened by the lack of support, visibility and all around acceptance of it.
Article
This article talks about discrimination that male abuse victims receive from the very support and shelters that were made to protect them.
Article This Article states what happens when male abuse victims would call or contact the agencies. Utterly disgusting, no?
I’m just reblogging this so I have a copy so to speak of what kind of ignorance and bigotry people will spew under the guise of trying to speak up for marginalized groups, like abuse survivors. It’s absolutely pathetic the mental gymnastics folks will perform to ensure you can’t challenge what they’re saying.
By saying facts and by acknowledging and accepting that transgendered people ARE the gender that they want to be? Wow, and here I thought this would be a challenge. Also, nice little tags, bit passive aggressive, no? Fucking asshole.
It was aggressive aggressive, actually, I was very clear with my purpose. Nothing subtle about it.
There were no facts stated in your post except for perhaps the articles you mentioned which I didn’t have time to read given I was on my phone and headed to class. You did however, in the first two sections of your post, claim that “transgendered” is the proper term because it’s an adjective when (1) transgender is an adjective and (2) the only accepted term by the transgender community is transgender or simply “trans”.
You are also further asserting that trans people being the gender they want to be… somehow means that they still fall into man/woman categories, which is not true in the case of genders which are nonbinary—as is not only the case for people from cultures where multigender && third gender qualifications stem eons past our modern time, but for many Western folks today who do not identify with the man/woman binary. This only exemplifies your complete and total unqualified position in this discussion.
You also referred to the fact that there are “multiple genders” but most studies focus on “the two sexualities” which… are not the same thing nor are they related; and the fact that studies DON’T include marginalized groups, which you so grossly reduced to “outliers” (by which logic male abuse victims/survivors shouldn’t be cared for or included in a discussion because they are the minority of abuse victims), is exactly why I was saying we have to put more effort into looking at the whole issue, not simply the side that is comfortable for us to digest.
You are not only ignorant and presumptive, you are ignorant and presumptive with an absurd level of arrogance and self-righteousness. You misrepresented my argument, misrepresented the content you provided, and entirely missed the point of the discussion in general.
You are exactly the type of person who would be used as an example of what not to do in any communication or persuasive / argumentation class. And, again, that’s pathetic and disheartening, as well as incredibly frustrating.
I would find pity on you if it weren’t for the fact that you are so belligerently asserting your baseless and misinformed opinions over the voices of those who are actually affected by and hurt by the rhetoric which you continue to spew.
And since apparently me directly stating you are pathetic isn’t aggressive enough for you to understand: I have no respect for you or your baseless opinions, and I hope sincerely that someone publicly humiliates you for them at some point in the future. I am disappointed that I don’t have the energy to be that person, but God bless the person who does.
Reblogged so that people can actually read and see your blatant disregard for facts, statistics, and all around asshole personality.
@ erykahisnotalright
“It was aggressive aggressive, actually, I was very clear with my purpose. Nothing subtle about it.”
--Well don’t you just sound like a wonderful person to spend time with.
“ There were no facts stated in your post except for (.....) transgender or simply “trans”. “
-- Okay, so no facts except for the facts as well as his detailed analysis of the statistics and what they mean to represent? Listen, I don’t know who crowned you Queen of vocabulary, or the Queen of the Trans community, but reality check here: Nobody gives a shit about whether or not he says “Transgender” or “Transgendered”. It does not change the meaning of his post, nor does it have any relevance to the argument. You’re just setting up some weird, ignorant rule that nobody cares about to make yourself seem like you care more about the transgender community, as though, again, they give a rat’s ass about an “-ed” modifier. Completely irrelevant and distracting.
“ You are also further asserting that trans people being the gender they want (...) exemplifies your complete and total unqualified position in this discussion. “
-- Listen, I understand that this is Tumblr, and that you guys have some weird version of the world where dicks and vaginas don’t actually exist or mean anything, but physically and biologically speaking, there are only 2 genders, and any deviation is either a mental disorder or a genetic mutation. X and Y chromosomes exist. Dicks and Vaginas exist. A transgender person is merely someone born with their brain telling them the gender they were born as is the wrong one and they are in the wrong body. Hermaphrodites also exist, but they are born with genetic mutations that make them have both genitalia. You cannot simply CHANGE your gender based on what you had for breakfast that morning. That is lunacy. There is no third gender. There are no demigirls. Stop pretending like there are. The only person exemplifying complete lack of qualification to discuss the issue here are you.
“ You also referred to the fact that there are “multiple genders” but most studies focus on (...) is exactly why I was saying we have to put more effort into looking at the whole issue, not simply the side that is comfortable for us to digest. “
-- Referring to a miniscule percentage like for example transgender people who represent less than 2% of the general population as “outliers” is not offensive. It’s how statistics work. Not that I’d expect a Tumblrite to have any firm understanding of statistics, but an outlier is simply a group that is so small that including them in certain forms of analysis would just muddle the results and create an inaccurate representation of what you’re trying to get at. There is a VAST difference between statistical outliers and statistical minorities. For example: Black people in the US are a statistical minority, however they represent a large enough portion of the society not to be considered outliers. Outliers in the American populous would be, for example, Jews, which only represent 2.2% of the population.
Also, talking about leaving out arguments which are harder to digest, I would highly suggest looking back at what you are doing with these posts. You are willing to ignore male abuse because they are LESS abused than women, and because you have been told, and convinced yourself that women are the oppressed class, and thus find it much easier to make women the victim than men. Fact is, both genders are abused by their respective spouses, and we should be doing more about GENERAL domestic abuse than simply laughing at men when they claim to be abused. Something which Dylan linked to in one of his articles, an article showing the general response which men get nowadays whenever they claim to be abused, which gnerally boils down to ridicule. Not to mention that in history, men used to be shunned by their own neighbors and peers should it ever come to light that they had been abused.
The rest of your statements are purely inflammatory and serve no greater purpose than to insult Dylan, which ironically is you actively abusing a male. It also appears from your insults that you are very much projecting. You have given no sources for your argument, and really have said nothing of value that in any way adds to the topic OP wanted to discuss. You have derailed the conversation and instead of at least staying on the topic of gender, decided to make it all about you by making it racial. Arrogance, presumption, ignorance, and self-righteousness are in fact all traits YOU have shown yourself to be suffering from, and I find it very appalling that you would have the gall to be so rude, while lacking complete credibility on your own behalf. Dylan took his time to source his arguments, and explain the statistics in his sources, and all you did in reciprocation is insult him and attempt (and fail) to virtue signal your moral superiority.
