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@toxinoire
Reblog to give the person you reblogged this from a Croissant (🥐).
I don't think people talk enough about Odysseus's reaction when he first heard the news that Calypso finally lets him go! 😭😭😭 (and no, not referring to his words to tell her "HELL no! Not unless you swear to me that you have nothing in store for me!)
so she spoke, and much tormented, divine Odysseus shivered
(Translation by me)
My boy...😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭like the first reaction was that he literally shivered/shuddered (ῥίγησεν). That reaction gets me every moment! Not gonna lie! It was an immediate, almost completely instinctual reaction of his body, upon hearing the news! And Homer managed to convey literally every single emotion the poor man could feel in a blink of an eye with just one verb!
Disbelief that after almost ten years of imprisonment to Calypso's isle and after years of abuse he cannot believe that she suddenly decided to let him go about his way
Relief that after so long he is finally able to go about his way.
Happiness that maybe, just maybe he has a chance, that the curse Polyphemus placed upon him was that he would finally return home to his loved ones instead of the dreadful scenario of him never seeing his home again
Fear that Calypso has a trap set for him or of the unknown that waits for him
Like...so many different emotions hiding within that simple non-verbal reaction! His shudder! I do not think that people talk about that enough! Not to mention that it is combined with the epithet πολύτλας "man of many torments" or "much tormented". All his torments...everything he has been through is simply summarized by that simple instinctual reaction! 😭😭😭which also seems to be in contrast when Calypso herself shudders upon hearing the news that the gods decided to let go of Odysseus, which is a reaction of a wide range of emotions too including frustration, sadness and fury but yeah!
I can FEEL his shiver! I can almost HEAR the way his breath probably quivered as he did! I can SEE the look on his face; that mixed feeling that I enlist above! Daresay the eyes that are STILL crying! And all that with just one single word of a verb describing a non-verbal and automatic reaction! 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
HOMER WHEN I CATCH YOU!!!!!!
This might be a hot take, but I do not really subscribe to characterizing Odysseus as constantly talking about Penelope to any and everyone who will listen to him. And admittedly part of this is because my perception of that kind of person/character has been soured overtime by men in real life proving that they were only talking about their wife so much not because they actually loved her, but because they were overcompensating for cheating, or were trying to hide the negative/harmful aspects of their relationship.
But the main reason comes down to the fact that I interpret Odysseus' love for Penelope as something private, something just for the two of them to share in. Other people are aware of their love, obviously, but not because of speech. No one but them and a single maid is aware of the olive tree bed he carved for the two of them, a physical manifestation of their love, a bed that cannot be moved. Their love - despite their own fears, despite the worry that Penelope had left with another man after so many years, despite the worry that Odysseus would never return - is solid and steadfast. The roots of their love remain strong, even if the boughs get tossed by the wind. Odysseus has no need to affirm his love for Penelope by constantly sounding aloud how much her loves her, those words are better served whispered into her ear as they lie in bed next to the other, sharing stories.
And this isn't to say I think Odysseus never speaks about Penelope, but more so that when he does, it is with a secret smile, a glint in his eye, that leaves the other men feeling like they are on the outside of an inside joke.
I think an interesting parallel can be drawn between the sexual violence/rape Odysseus faces at the hands of Calypso, and the threat that the suitors pose to Penelope.
Because there is this implicit threat of sexual violence against Penelope, even if the suitors are not trying to break down her door to sexually assault/rape her. "But the suitors broke out into uproar through the shadowed halls, all of them lifting prayers to lie beside her, share he bed.."(Fagles 1.420-21). This might seem a bit innocuous at first, but there is a sinister undertone to it when paired with the other behaviors these men display. They are greedily taking from the house against the will of Penelope and Telemachus, they are men defined by their blatant disrespect of others autonomy, refusing to follow proper xenia. Why would those men, if actually put into a position where they could sleep with Penelope, respect her "no"? I would argue that they would not. They show a callousness towards to maids, (the twelve that the narrative posits as being willing aside), they being dragged around the palace by the suitors, with there once again being an implication of assault. There is also the element of marital rape, where, in the event that Penelope was to marry one of these men, they could force her to sleep with them against her will, now being able to cite her being his wife as reason, regardless of her refusal or unwillingness. The way Penelope behaves also exemplifies this threat. She rarely shows herself to the suitors, and when she does it is accompanied by others and in a public place. Now part of this is social convention, but it can also be read as her ensuring that there is as little chance as possible for her to end up alone or mostly alone with one of them. This is exemplified by the scene where Penelope talks one on one with a disguised Odysseus, showing that smaller, more private meetings between men and women are not impossible or completely frowned upon. And yet Penelope never allows this kind of meeting to occur between her and the suitors (that we see, that is). Every time that she presents herself to them, it is in public, with maids accompanying her.
Where the parallel comes in is with the violence that Odysseus faces at the hands of Calypso being the very violence that Penelope is being threatened with. The unwillingness of Odysseus is not just Calypso blatantly forcing herself on him, though there is definitely room to read that from their interactions, but also her manufacturing Odysseus' consent by denying him the ability to say "no". She is a goddess, there is an inherent power-imbalance between them. He is unable to leave, and must heed her words, though he does not want to. This is shown in how Calypso twists his arm to praise her as more beautiful than Penelope, Odysseus having to concede to her to avoid her anger. "'Ah great goddess', worldly Odysseus answered, 'don't be angry with me. All that you say is true, how well I know. Look at my wise Penelope, she falls short of you, your beauty, stature. She is mortal after all and you, you never age or die..." (Fagles 5.236-39). Odysseus in this moment, despite doing his best to claim any amount of agency back - referring to Penelope as wise, giving the caveat of Calypso being immortal as to the difference between them - is still ultimately forced to agree with her to ensure that her anger does not cause him to lose his chance at returning home.
Penelope is put in a similar position with the suitors, it being said that she "played fast and loose with all [their] hearts" promising each of them that she would pick them. Part of this could have been to ensure that they did not form a united front against her, as they were too busy vying against the other, but it also can be read as her being forced to play along with them, to embody the role of a widow who must be remarried. much like how Odysseus must play along with Calypso, still able to twist his words to forgo her anger, but not able to get out of the speech altogether, Penelope must use her words and her weaving to make sure that she is able to hold on to as much of her agency as possible in a situation determined to strip her of it.
The positions that Penelope and Odysseus are forced to endure at the hands of the suitors and the hands of Calypso respectively, parallel each other. With what is shown being done to Odysseus directly threatened to Penelope, creating further tension for her situation, showing what very well could occur if it were to worsen, if she was forced to actually marry before Odysseus was able to return. It further intertwines them narratively, them both being faced with their agency being stripped away as they continue to fight for it as best they can.
I think that, when it comes to the conversation around Circe and Odysseus, that some readers reactions to them having sex is heavily based on the assumption that for sex to occur, there must be sexual and/or romantic attraction. If a reader is to interpret the sex they have as completely consensual (which I already personally view as a more tenuous interpretation), then its seems that the logical next step for them must be that the sex occurred because they both, to some degree, found the other romantically or sexually attractive. And maybe it's just me, maybe I am simply too aroace for this conversation, but I do not in any way read romance or lust between Circe and Odysseus, as least as presented in the Odyssey. The sex they have comes across more so as a business transaction at best, where it is done to both reestablish trust between Circe and Odysseus after she violated xenia, and acts as a contract for Odysseus to have his men turned back from pigs. "...but don't refuse the goddess' bed, not then, not if she's to release your friends and treat you well yourself" (Fagles 10.329-30). This line presents a transaction between the pair, one facilitated by Hermes. Even later, when Circe invites him to bed, it is not out of any supposed love or lust, but out of a desire to, as said before, gain trust between them, as sex, even without any emotional stakes or feelings involved, is still a physically vulnerable task to engage in.
Thus it reads as a necessity that Odysseus must complete to move forward. If I might be so bold, I would in part compare what Odysseus does to a form of sex work, due to the transactional nature of it. And like how sex workers are not required to be attracted to their clients, Odysseus is not required to be attracted to Circe, nor - would I argue - that the text presents him as such. Now where this differs from sex work - as sex work should allow for the workers to say no and have that be respected - is the issue of consent that comes in with the fact that he was told that having sex with Circe was the only way he could get his men back by Hermes, so it exists in this state of him technically agreeing to go through with having sex with Circe for some material gain while also not having any other choice in that particular moment. It is a far more complicated situation than with Calypso, but there is still an underlining issue of consent and coercion.
Now yes, we do have to take into account that this is a more limited POV we are reading as it is in first person from Odysseus' perspective, but I do think that the surrounding circumstances of him losing nearly all of his crew and being unable to see a way forward paints a fairly accurate and, I would argue, trusted image of a man who had been placed in a difficult position, and is willing to do whatever it takes to save the men he still has under his care. He has lost almost everything, and it narratively makes sense that he would spring into action in the way he does to save the people he has left. This also provides explanation for his staying for a year, though there is very little to go on for what took place during that year, as only roughly five lines are dedicated to it. But there is no further mention of Circe in those lines, no mention of growing closer with her, no mention of further sexual encounters between them, the focus entirely being on rest. The words that Odysseus' crew relays to him also more so imply a listless nature to Odysseus, a borderline depression that he has fallen into, a refusal to think of home as he fears never seeing it again. "High time you thought of your own home at last, if it really is your fate to make it back alive and reach your well-built house and native land" (Fagles 10.521-22). The mention is for Odysseus to turn is attention once again homeward. There is no mention of what was otherwise holding his attention, so it does make this section more speculative in nature, but given the previous context, I would say it falls more in line with a disillusionment of ever reaching home more so than budding love with Circe keeping him in place until his men urge him on and, for their sake so they might also reach their homes once again, agrees to at least attempt again.
As such, I just can't help but wonder if the assumption that they somehow had romantic or sexual desire for each other when the text does not seem to provide much substantial evidence for it comes more from how sex in general in treated an talked about in modern day western culture (more specifically American culture, as that is where I am from and can most confidently talk about) and less about the actual content of Circe and Odysseus' encounter. Now this is more anecdotal, but it is not uncommon for sex to be talked about as a fundamentally sacred thing that requires deep emotional connection to occur. Hell even more progressive views on sex, while deny the necessity of a romantic connection, still insist on a sexual one. Romance and sex, because of these underlining ideas, are projected onto a character interaction that I would suggest has very little textual evidence to actually suggest either romantic or sexual feelings for its occurrence.
I don't know, I just find it a bit odd that what comes across as a transactional at best and coercive at worst sexual encounter is treated as this steamy one night stand by a not insignificant amount as people.
Deidamia who thinks she’s in a loving lesbian relationship with a trans woman x Achilles who thinks she’s very committed to keeping his identity a secret. Am I cooking with this
Achilles/Pyrrha: there’s something you should know. I’m actually a man.
Deidamia, thinking her girlfriend is feeling dysphoria, needs gender affirmation: what are you saying? Of course you’re a woman. I would never call or think of you otherwise.
Achilles, under the impression Deidamia is being careful to conceal him when there are ears everywhere: that means a great deal to me.
Achilles confesses his name is not Pyrrha/Issa/Kerkysera, that he’s really Achilles, son of Peleus. Deidamia is touched Pyrrha trusts her with her deadname and affirms she will never call her that.
It all comes to a head when Odysseus arrives at Skyros and finds Achilles a la him looking at the weapons brought. Deidamia comes to Pyrrha’s defense, enraged that this short, graying guy feels all too comfortable deadnaming and using the wrong pronouns for her girlfriend.
Deidamia: women can appreciate the craftsmanship of weaponry, you short, bigoted pig!
Diomedes finds it hilarious and doesn’t help the bewildered Odysseus at all. Patroclus also doesn’t help.
Achilles finally realizes what’s happening and tells Deidamia that yes, he actually is a man. Deidamia is betrayed that they won’t elope to lesbos and live the U-Haul lesbian dream. Poor Deidamia. But Odysseus is the real victim of this story, he’s not that short, really.
couldn’t leave this in the tags
I always read Telemachus’s treatment towards Penelope as not solely built up on resentment towards her, but resentment towards Odysseus as well. Since Penelope is present, she is the receiver of the anger towards Odysseus, especially when he believes that she chooses his father over him.
Telemachus treating his father well in the Odyssey doesn’t mean there was no resentment. This very much has to do not only with happiness of meeting the father he’s never known, but also because Odysseus returned at an urgent time.
Telemachus is someone that holds a lot of anger and insecurities that built up throughout his life, and it all goes back to the absence of his father. Telemachus also had to watch his mother suffer due to Odysseus not being there, and he would resent Odysseus for this and feel as though he had stolen his mother from him. It also has to do with how Penelope technically does choose Odysseus over everyone.
There’s also the factor of Odysseus not returning as the man he used to be. He is nothing like the man Telemachus heard about his entire life, and he could feel upset over that - he could either feel angry that he never met the old Odysseus or that he doesn’t live up to the image that he built in his mind.
There could also be fear on Telemachus’s part that he is not the son Odysseus imagined he would return to. His insecurities might get the worst of him and make him keep his distance for a while.
Lastly, despite Odysseus’s return, he is still a stranger. He returned when his son is an adult, and that would make it harder for them to get close. Telemachus might take time to get used to him being there. There’s also the fact that Telemachus witnessed for years as his mother was being bothered by these strange men, so it could take time for him to see Odysseus around Penelope without feeling protective.
The family dynamic after the dust settles and the initial adrenaline from Odysseus returning and the subsequent events wears off would be so fascinating to explore, that's a whole other avalanche of emotions for everyone to deal with.
With Telemachus specifically, I think he'll reach his breaking point soon enough, despite perhaps trying to keep the composure of the prince he thinks he ought to be - he's gone onto his coming of age journey, and now also got his father back and the suitors are gone, everything should be great, right? Wrong, because you can't just evaporate the trauma and the negative feelings that were piling up not just for years, but basically your whole life (and particularly the most formative years) when you get the 'happily ever after'. It all would still be there and now that Telemachus is no longer in survival mode all that anger, grief, sadness and fear are going to explode in his own and his parents' faces, who would also be dealing with their own traumas at the same time...
As much as I like to see happy family fluff for these characters after everything they've been through, this kind of additional angst would probably make more sense in their situation. The things they went through have left marks that can no longer be ignored when there's finally peace around them. There are so many wounds to be healed and it's not going to be a painless process.
Also, I think something that kind of gets forgotten is that the suitors and Odysseus' absence weren't the only major stressors for Telemachus and Penelope (I myself haven't thought much about it until recently)
Telemachus has seen his grandmother die of grief and his grandfather subsequently leaving their home because that new blow was too much for him to handle (and then potentially the rumours of him going mad, that would very much not be pleasant to hear), and iirc, that happened near the end of the Trojan war, so Telemachus was still a little kid. Sure soon after that there came good news of the war ending and the anticipation of Odysseus' return, but years went by and there was basically no information of his whereabouts or whether he's even alive.
The suitors came around 4 years before the Odyssey's events and the situation got progressively worse (that being Telemachus' late teen years and early adulthood). Aside from there being a slight chance of Penelope marrying one of the suitors, there's also the notion that she could also leave back to Sparta and marry someone there (as Telemachus himself mentioned, iirc), and Telemachus would be left almost completely on his own and with no older family members, who held any power to protect him, being present.
Penelope as well was basically left without a proper support system with her birth family far away and her in-laws not being able to help her through her struggles. Laertes in particular, were he in a better state, would've probably been able to help handle the suitors quite effectively.
In addition to what the post above already said, for Telemachus even more conflicting feelings about Odysseus being dead or alive could arise from Anticlea's death and Laertes' grief, like simultaneously blaming Odysseus for dying, because the rumour of his death is what caused that, while also being resentful, if he's alive because then why wasn't he here to prevent Anticlea's death and Laertes' grief and departure, etc.
I really wonder what teenage Telemachus initial reaction to Penelope weaving a burial shroud for not yet dead Laertes would've been...
Even if she were to explain to him that this was a trick against the suitors, the notion of her making that specific item would have been a lot to process after all that grief
Imagine a 16-17 year old Telemachus having a meltdown one night and actually contemplating (or even attempting) to destroy that shroud and all it symbolises... And being stopped by either Penelope or Eurycleia because that might cause too many additional problems they can't afford to deal with (but in particular because Telemachus would be the one scrutinized for it and they don't want him to go through that in addition to everything else)
Eurycleia was basically holding Penelope and Telemachus' mental health together as much as she possibly could in her position
The honorary grandma stepped up
Every time I see someone say "age isn't linked to maturity" whenever discussing Marinette's decision about the lie just to justify calling her a manipulator, I roll my eyes so hard they might go to a whole new dimension.
Look, I'm not saying the decision is right. We know damn well it isn't. Yes, I know some part of it is rooted in selfishness in not wanting to deal with the outcome. And yes, it's gonna hurt Adrien and we know that. And he's allowed to be ─ my goodness he's allowed to be furious and I wouldn't blame him if he breaks up with her. I want him to get angry cause he deserves to be. But we can acknowledge this and understand that even though Marinette chose to lie and that it's wrong, she definitely was deciding based on trauma, wanting to maintain a bit of control over the outcome, but also wanting to keep peace and for everyone around her to stay happy, and her choice was how her 14 year old brain processed all that. Because age does, in fact, affect some of your decision making.
(I'm gonna have some irl examples for this essay okay just keep reading)
I'm 18. I still am bad at regulating my anger. You know how I process moments that fucking scare me as someone who's anxious? Ignore it by watching a yt vid or listening to a song just to stop overthinking. I'm also an eldest child, but sometimes my siblings can handle some situations better than me. At my "big age" I still suppress my negative emotions when they overwhelm me. I wouldn't have known wtf to do in Marinette's situation.
And no, the latter sentence isn't some "oh but you'd the same─" statement. Some of you would probably be like "oh but I would've told the truth immediately" good for you but not everyone can. Not everyone processes situations the same way because people aren't a fucking monolith.
Let's recap what the situation is: She found out the villain terrorizing Paris and her is the man who emotionally abused her boyfriend. Then this guy pretended to have a change of hesrt just to paralyze her. Then he fucking KILLED HIMSELF in front of her, with his dying wish being to make Adrien remember him as a good father. Do y'all not realize how fucked up that is? Refusing a dying wish isn't easy in general. This dying wish happened before committing suicide, and the witness was a 14 year old. A traumatized one that hasn't even began looking into colleges yet.
Again, we know the decision is wrong. We all know its wrong, and consequences will come. Intent doesn't erase impact. But man. Contextually, what the fuck do you even do in this situation?
You know what I was doing at fourteen???? SCHOOL. Just school. Sure I was being an unofficial therapist for my younger cousin in a bad family situation, but even then I couldn't tell my family what she tells me because she asked and felt scared about telling people and she pleaded that I don't tell. Especially since she has a little brother and she doesn't want them to be in separate households or for him to worry too much. And I, the supposed "older and wiser cousin" didn't fucking know what to do. I didn't tell the rest of our family yet. Why? Easy. I was fucking 14. She's younger and in a bad household, and only now at 15 did my cousin realize the full scope of how shit is fucked up in that house. Why didn't she know immediately? Her family was fucking brainwashing her ─ again, she just now realized the full scope of it, and yes she's only 15, but that's with a support system aka me and our family after she told the rest of them the truth and we helped her realize it.
Who the fuck did Marinette have in that final battle? Natalie????? Felix????? Adrien's family that refuses to tell him too???? Why is it just on Marinette? Love Felix but he's known about this for ages and chose to tell the gf before the actual person in question, and he's considered a smart character. And these two are actively fucking telling her to keep going with the lie as others who know the full scope of it all.
Marinette has shown to have unhealthy responses to trauma. She prefers to shoulder things alone. She doesn't share it ─ evidence season 4 Gang of Secrets where she told her friends that she doesn't wanna be friends anymore out of anger, an almost exposition of the Miracle Box, not wanting to put anyone in danger, and being overwhelmed as the new guardian. She did tell Alya she's Ladybug, but that was after realizing that shit's rough and she does needs help. We've seen how she handles shit like this. It's unhealthy but stems from not wanting others to be burdened by her problems. The same way the lie is absolutely wrong but stems from not wanting Adrien to be hurt.
Again, intent doesn't erase impact. But intent is context, and a decision is always formed around the context.
Maturity and how you go about decisions is definitely a you thing, but there is part of it linked to age. A lack of experience does so much to a person's choices.
A seven year old finds multiplication hard because they just learned about it, while a 12 year old finds it easier because they have the multiplication table memorized, but that same 12 year old finds other math equations with multiplication hard because they just began learning those other equations.
Marinette was stumbling and flung herself across Paris on her first day as Ladybug. And as the seasons went on, she's gotten the hang of fighting in combat and swinging that yoyo because of experience.
But she has never been presented with such a situation like the s5 finale before. Of course her decision was fucking stupid, she never in her life even thought this would be something she'll have to witness.
Yes she was bullied a lot growing up but that isn't the same as watching a man kill himself in front of her.
The girl never even thought she was gonna be a superhero in the first place.
She's smart. Very smart. But she's not exempt to human flaws, and her choice alongside the intent she had making that choice is reflecting of her very human flaws and the fact that she is two years into being a teenager.
A little kid lies sometimes to get out of trouble. Teens sometimes sneak past their parents and breaks their rules without telling their parents. This 14 year old is lying because she thinks it's the less painful outcome. Again, thinks. It's still going to be such a painful outcome. But why wouldn't she go what she thinks is the less painful outcome after watching a man kill himself?
This isn't a seasoned warrior, this is a teenage girl who became a superhero on a random Monday during her first day of ninth grade and it's only been 9 fucking months. Technically a year if you consider what month her school year started. But it's only been a school year.
So yeah her decision was wrong, stupid, and immature. What fourteen year old immediately gets shit right anyway? Especially something as heavy?
The girl is also feeling the guilt. Actively. Not guilty because she got caught. She's been feeling guilty before Alya even knew there was a lie to begin with. She already felt the guilt before before she told Adrien the lie. She knew it's wrong, but again, to her, it's the least painful outcome, so she chose to do it.
"But Alya instantly knew that it isn't the least painful outcomr─" I love Alya and I do agree she's right about the fact that Marinette needs to tell Adrien the truth and that Alya was justified in being upset, but also I hope we remember that Alya isn't the one who had to watch a man make a dying request to her and then watched kill himself in front of her. Alya can be 100% right about all of this and also still not fully see the other pov cause she wasn't fucking there.
The lie is wrong, and I want Marinette to face the full, bitter aftermath of it. But man. Just because I do want her to experience the aftermath and acknowledge how bad the lie really is doesn't fucking mean I'm blind to the obvious fact why the 14 year old traumatized girl shouldering three boulders of pressure on her throat made an irrational decision.
Okay I feel like we should have a Elphaba dissection.
Because Glinda, as we understand, is neither hero nor villain. Complicit? Yes. Deeply flawed? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, human. Her arc explained in an oversimplified sentence: began ignorant, learned from her errors too late, but essentially learned, became--and is working to be--a much better person. Which is a very human experience as majority of us, especially those raised in that system, experienced this too.
But Elphaba isn't as such. She began easily seeing how fucked up everything is as an oppressed and marginalized individual.
It doesn't make her exempt from certain things though.
For one, she believed in the propaganda of the Wizard, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. But it's not only for plot set up. It showed us that she was, in fact, hopeful. When she tells Dillamond in pt 1, "someone has to tell the Wizard" during Something Bad, it showed that she, at some point, told an oppressed community to "tell the authorities." And let's be real, many of us once told our fellow marginalized individuals this at one point because we thought it worked.
Again, this doesn't make her bad. But it does show that she's still very human and not exempt from being hopeful. She was pragmatic, yes, but not entirely exposed to that further of a reality.
"Oh but her childhood-" Yeah she definitely was exposed to the shit of the world early on. She was bullied a lot, and neglected by who she saw as her biological father. And though Nessa turned out the way she did, Elphaba has most likely witnessed some form of discrimination against Nessa, who's clearly disabled in a way that affects the convenience of those around her.
However, I hope we recall that the girl is the daughter of a governor.
She wasn't given the love she deserved, she was treated like shit. But that still protected her in more ways than individuals like the animals.
No one would raid a governor's house. No one would just snatch up a person in power's workers (aka the animals that worked for Frex). And though she's not sheltered, the fact that she still lived in materialized comfort puts her in a safer position unlike the others who don't have that privilege. She doesn't see it as such because she was still horrifyingly mistreated, but it still gave her some form of a shield.
So yes, she saw the world for what it was. But there are parts of the story she hadn't read yet.
Now let's move over to The Wizard and I.
This is her I want song. There's one little thing about it that reveals a very human thing about her:
"Cause once you're with the Wizard, no one thinks you're strange."
"And all of Oz has to love you. When, by the Wizard, you're acclaimed."
"Elphaba, a girl is so superior,"
"Held in such high esteem"
She's dreaming to be accepted, to be loved. That's not bad, she has every right to want that and have that.
Now in Every Day More Wicked:
"When I stop the Wizard, all Oz will applaud.
How I saved them from the Wizard by revealing he's a fraud."
We all know she's the closest to morally good, and we all know she's not at all a performative person. But there was a part of her that wanted validation. That's not a bad thing, but, realistically, someone's tiny little need for themselves often merges with the things they do, no matter how selfless.
And that need for validation from others but mostly from herself, definitely made her mess a little thing up: strategizing. The self validation, we'll get to in a second. Let's talk about her great strength that's at the same, her flaw.
Now, when I say strategize, I don't mean "oh but make change from within-" no that's not what I meant.
I meant that she had no real direction.
She's acts on her instinct and by what is right which is GREAT. But if you mix resolve and instinctual response with a need for self validation, it turns into recklessness.
She has an end, but no means to get to it other than dive in head first with hopes that she floats.
Example: The opening scene of For Good. She helped those animals (are those oxen? I'm not sure), yes.
The yellow brick road was still finished, which was likely finished by more animal labor.
She may have helped at that moment, but it didn't have a lasting impact because she acts immediately.
She did the right thing, she did. But why is it that she hasn't been able to land the impact she wanted other than her lack of social power (which we will also get to later)?
She didn't think it through. Not fully. She knew the risks without analyzing the side effects.
Let's look at the Lion cub. I hate that fucking Lion. but here's the thing: okay she saved him from the cage. Then what? Left him in the forest? As a cub? Without adult supervision? At all?
I love Elphaba, but this scene shows her impulse and lack of strategic thinking. What did she think was gonna happen? He was a cub. It's like rescuing a three year old toddler caught in a fishnet but then leaving them alone in the city (Fiyero too btw. He fucked this one up too)
And let's be real. She never would've been able to get the Wizard to agree to free the monkeys in Wonderful on her own unless she resulted to violence. That's why Glinda was added to that scene (yes yes I know how Bway worked, but it was a weak point of the stage version considering how impulsive she is; she wouldn't have sat for that conversation if it weren't for adding Glinda who Elphaba actually respects, cause she never would've really heard the Wizard out).
Elphaba had a plan in theory, not in practice.
The monkeys had to be free without violence in order for the releasing the trapped animals scene to work btw. The monkeys are trapped by the Wizard, so if it was only Elphaba who let them go, they'd hesitate since their families will he in jeopardy (as shown in Morrible's threat to them in act 1).
So yeah...she didn't think that through.
She definitely realized it by the end (aka her plan to fake her death) that without strategy, her end can't really be achieved.
Now let's to what I mean by self validation.
No Good Deed has her say:
"One question haunts and hurts
too much, too much to mention
Was I really seeking good?
Or just seeking attention?"
Two things can be true at once.
Elphaba did, in fact, struggle with what goodness is.
She was seeking good. But there's a part of her that's also seeking self and external validation (see the lyrics I quoted from The Wizard and I and Every Day More Wicked).
That question hurts cause she knows it's true. She wasn't going without caring about what others think, part of her wanted external validation. She wanted that to feel self validated.
Which she overcame in No Good Deed as well; upon realizing that simply good deeds aren't the key for people to learn because some are genuinely blinded by what they see and hear.
Which is what For Good wraps up. Elphaba finally strategizes a way that's effective to achieve her cause (at the same time Glinda finally fully gets courage to do the right thing).
It's a tragic strategy, but an effective one.
(Which also hurts, because it really would've been nice if they had worked in tandem that didn't end like this)
Elphaba is the closest to morally good in the whole series. But there are things she lacked. It doesn't do anything to her resolve or water down her absolute courage to take a stand. It simply shows that her method may have been born out of courage and resolve to do what's right, but you still have to sketch on a canvas before you get a painting.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW
THIS IS A TRUMPET
THIS IS A TROMBONE
THIS IS A TUBA
AND THIS IS A FRENCH HORN
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME
You mean trumpet
Slidey Trumpet
Big ass trumpet
Drunk Trumpet
I’M GONNA PUNCH YOU
My sides
AT LEAST YOUR INSTRUMENTS LOOK DIFFERENT
those are some fancy guitars
EXCUSE YOU THAT IS A BASS, A VIOLIN, A FIDDLE, AND A VIOLA
Those are big mama violin and her little violings
String trumpets.
THATS NOT A BASS YOU DICK THATS A CELLO GET UR FUCKIN STRING INSTRUMENTS RIGHT JFC
things heating up in the orchestra fandom
I know what a trumpet is I play one
Time to reblog this and give my friends a stroke
Being a past trumpet player and now a French horn this post makes me very angery
I tap keys
But hey what about
Wow… Those are really strange trumpets, where did you get them from?
What about this six-string viola I found?
acoustic trumpet
tumblr users love reading. you literally stopped for this post just because it has words in it
this is one of my favorite bits about tumblr
the users seem to actually prefer text posts to anything else, and treat it as a chore to play a video especially with sound
Hey look a fandom where things had been fun but then 80% of the fans started being assholes to the very people they claim they stan and completely disregards their boundaries, which sucks cause the people they stan are great, and the remaining 20% of the fandom are really cool and funny, but the majority of the fandom sucks ass now.
Whether or not I'm referring to the Katseye fandom or the Epic fandom is completely up to you
I really really love that there is NO finesse to the way Glinda just fuckin…throws out the whole government. Just fuckin chucks it. Her Elphie is dead, she has nothing to lose, and yes she’s gonna honor Elphaba’s legacy in every way possible once she’s had a second to breathe, but first she’s getting petty revenge and she’s so goddamn ruthless about it. Emotionally eviscerate the Wizard first, THEN banish him to the ends of the earth. Humiliate and taunt Morrible like a cat with a mouse, THEN have her dragged away and locked in a cage previously used for Animals. This motherfucker did not cleverly or intricately work the system to bring down the government, she staged a one-woman coup in her sparkly dress and Elphie’s big clompy boots and she was an ice cold bitch about it. She knowingly lets herself get ugly for a minute and revels in it because that’s all she has left. Heartbroken vengeful Glinda you are so dear to me.
The fact that elphaba could not believe fiyero would find her beautiful but glinda gives her this look:
And her instant reaction is of course you would find me beautiful, and good, and great, you love me, you look at me with the pinkest, rosiest glasses, you are incredibly biased, dont look at me as you but THEM - she doesn't even question it. She knows in her bones glinda loves her and finds her beautiful. Everybody else she's unsure, but glinda? Glinda, who lives her life in lavish beauty, never a hair out of place, and stares at elphaba, in complete disarray? Elphaba knows. She will find elphie good and beautiful.
Clytemnestra’s hypocrisy is just so funny to me:
She kills Agamemnon because of Iphigenia, and later she tries to have Orestes killed.
She kills Cassandra because she’s her husband’s concubine, but has a lover.
She’s actually hilarious, I’m sorry.
My personal interpretation of the ending was that Elphaba saw that the Grimmerie opened for Glinda through her prophecy-vision thing and that's why she smiled the way she did.
She knew she wasn't wrong to give Glinda the Grimmerie and she's so happy she's right.
My doomed yuri
Okay okay so the scene where Glinda and Elphaba were about to escape the palace via hot air balloon, they failed because the roof closed.
But imagine what would have happened if it hadn't.
The balloon would fly, and they would escape.
Where do the winds take them?
Kansas.
Specifically, to where Dorothy is.
Dorothy, who's still around like 6 or 7.
So by some miracle, Dorothy's family lets them stay since someone needs to watch the young child while they're all away. So they basically become nannies/older sisters/substitute parents to this child.
Elphaba loves using her magic to make the little one laugh. And Glinda loves helping Dorothy dress up. The magic is a well kept secret.
Elphaba teaches Glinda some magic. While Glinda is not as powerful nor can she do as much, there are little things she can do. Such as make small objects float towards her, make flowers bloom, and control bits and pieces of light (I personally think magic is connected to not only emotion but personality).
As time passes by, Gelphie finally dates because 10 year old Dorothy one day asks Elphaba "where's your girlfriend?" while Glinda was just in the other room. Leading to an inevitable talk.
Gelphie's relationship is a well guarded secret by them and Dorothy, it took a while to explain to Dorothy why it's not so safe to tell others yet (remember the year this was made y'all), but she eventually got it.
When Toto was given to Dorothy, he did nawt like Glinda at first. He did eventually warm up to her, but Glinda still pouts about it sometimes.
Now the storm--well, tornado.
So, the house finally lands. Elphaba and Glinda step out first to make sure it's safe for teenage Dorothy to be outside.
And then the dawning realization that they're back at Oz strikes them.
And from the posters they see, it's clear that Elphaba is still wanted. Though this time, so is Fiyero. Because Fiyero lost Elphaba, the girl he's in love with but hadn't told, and Glinda (whether or not you personally believe he and Glinda had truly been in love may vary, but he cared about her, that's his bestie), he decided to take a stand as well. But of course, he had been painted as the wicked vigilante. Now, as for Glinda, she had been used to make Elphaba seem more of a villain--Morrible had been saying that Elphaba kidnapped her.
Dorothy is wondering why their names are all over this place Dorothy never heard of. Glinda and Elphaba are just like "sit down for this"
Dorothy is just "...I love that, actually."
And so now, they have to find a way home, then Elphaba fucking sees who's under the house.
And that night is spent through Elphaba crying in Glinda's arms, Glinda trying her best to comfort her, and Dorothy is also trying her best to be there.
Elphaba gets to keep the shoes this time.
Now their main question is how the fuck do they get home (they don't know of the shoes, how could they when they've been away from Oz for too long), find Fiyero, and maybe Boq, and maybe take the wizard down if they have time. How do they do all that when Elphaba is still blacklisted and Glinda is seen as some victim?
(Then maybe Glinda thinks out loud, what if there was a universe she hadn't been able to be there for Elphaba? And then the Dragon clock answers "Every other universe, you weren't there. Every other, you could never reunite. This is the only one you do." And upon hearing those words, Glinda becomes even more determined to stand by Elphaba's side because since his the only universe she stood with her, as an apology on behalf of her other selves, she'll make up to all the other Elphie's as much as she can here where she has this privilege to be with her)
When they make it to Kansas, Elphie and Hlinda notice that Elphaba is no longer green. Instead, her skin is a warm brown like dark chocolate, almost exactly like her mother’s. Elphie and Glinda are both equally mystified. They figure that magic must not work the same way here, and that probably has something to do with Elphie’s skin color changing to a more natural tone. The one thing that stayed the same were her eyes, which were the same bright, emerald green they’d always been.
Elphie is… conflicted. On the one hand, she’s wanted nothing more than exactly this for her entire life, for as long as she’s been able to want anything. But on the other hand, her time at Shiz and her time with Glinda… she’d started to feel like maybe it wasn’t all that bad. Maybe it wasn’t something that ever needed to be “fixed,” like she’d been told.
Glinda is equally conflicted. She’d fallen in love with Elphie’s greenness just as quickly as she’d fallen in love with everything else about Elphie. And now it’s gone.
At first, it’s mostly just destabilizing. Glinda has a hard time finding Elphie in a crowd because she’d gotten so used to just looking for the bright flashes of green on her hands, the back of her neck, and the side of her face. Every time Elphaba catches sight of her reflection, it takes her a minute to realize who she’s looking at.
When Elphaba was a kid, she went through a phase where she hated mirrors and resolutely refused to look in them because she hated what she saw, even going so far as showering and dressing in the dark because she couldn’t face her own reflection. Eventually, she got over it. Now, she avoids mirrors for a whole different reason. Without her greenness distracting her, Elphaba notices it isn’t just a skin tone that she shares with her mother. Elphaba had never really been one to study her features before, but when she finally works up the courage to do so, she notices that she looks almost exactly like her mother.
She finds herself wondering what her life would have been like if she’d been born like this instead. For one, her mother would still be here, Nessa wouldn’t have been confined to that chair. Maybe her father wouldn’t have hated her so much, maybe Nessa wouldn’t have been so ashamed to call Elphaba her sister. Maybe she wouldn’t be on the run from the wizard and the entirety of Oz.
She confesses this to Glinda one night, and even teases that maybe Glinda wouldn’t have hated her so much when they first met. At first, Glinda feels a little awkward about that, but then she actually thinks about it for a minute. She recalls how quickly she adjusted to Elphie’s greenness and concludes that she definitely still would have hated her. Elphaba snorts at that, but Glinda continues, saying that she never hated Elphie for her skin color, just her fashion sense, academic ambition and her personality. You know, insignificant things. Elphaba laughs at that, and Glinda just smiles, happy to finally see her Elphie smile again for the first time in weeks.
(Little Dorothy loves Elphaba’s eyes and thinks they’re really pretty.)
((Glinda and Elphaba also use their life on Oz as basis for Dorothy’s bedtime stories, like the marvelous Emerald City and the school with talking animals as the teachers.))
Thank you for adding this to my post holy shit I love it