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@traincat
Which authors do you recommend to someone who is just starting out on Fantastic Four comics? To get a good baseline of what the team is all about, but I'm also looking for authors who really understand the characters, especially Johnny since he's my favorite. I've heard there are Johnny focused stories as well. Could you give me some guidance on where to start? And I'm sorry if you've answered this before
No worries! I'll tell you what I recommend for starters, and then what I don't recommend.
My go-to for beginners is always Mark Waid's run, which starts at Fantastic Four vol.3 #60. (You'll see this sometimes labeled as Fantastic Four (1998) instead of vol.3. It's the same thing.) It's a really good introductory run, and Waid is a solid writer with a good handle on all four members of the Fantastic Four. He does fall victim a little bit to what I view as a Johnny Problem in the beginning where I think it takes him a few issues to hit his stride with him, but he's far from the most egregious case here, and he later wrote some of my favorite Johnny moments. If I had to single out a characterization weakness in it, it's that I don't think Waid writes a particularly nuanced or thoughtful Doom, but again, not the most egregious case overall. It's a strong run that's easily accessible for new readers.
I would follow the whole run through, starting with Fantastic Four v3 #60-70, renumbering to #500-524. I hate that I have to hit you with renumbering right off the bat, but in my opinion it's the strongest beginner run. Great character voices, good handle on the team and all their dynamics, fun plot. The majority of the run is drawn by the late, great Mike Wieringo, too, who had a wonderful art style that I think worked really well with the Fantastic Four.
For Johnny in particular in Waid's run, I would read Fantastic Four #509, which takes place during Ben's temporary death and showcases Johnny's grief in particular, and Fantastic Four #519-523, where Sue and Johnny's powers are switched and Johnny is temporarily abducted as Galactus' herald. There's also a fun two issue team-up with Spider-Man in Fantastic Four v3 #12-13.
There's a lot of interesting stuff between the end of Waid's run and the beginning of Millar's (see the Runs I Don't Recommend section for more on Millar) where I think you get a good sense for the characters. So if you wanted to keep reading past Waid, you'll hit fun writers like Dwayne McDuffie and J Michael Stracyznski.
So what I recommend next depends a little on your personal tastes. I think the original Lee/Kirby run is great, but I know that some people struggle with '60s comics, and the original run of Fantastic Four has a very retro futuristic Jetsons-esque feel to it. If you enjoyed the aesthetic of First Steps, you'll probably like it, but if you've never read a run from the 60s before, it might take some adjustment.
For the Lee/Kirby run, you want Fantastic Four (1961) #1-102, although you can keep following through after that point. Pair it with Strange Tales #101-132, which is essentially a Johnny Storm solo from his high school years where every issue Johnny lands himself in some kind of peril.
(Strange Tales #107) Literally. Every issue.
Robinson's run is a relatively short, self-contained story with good voices for the entire team throughout. It's a tight run with good character focus on the team, so I would recommend it to new readers. A villain attempts to destroy the Fantastic Four from the inside out, including by orchestrating the loss of Johnny's powers. Fantastic Four v5 #1-14, #642-645.
Hickman's run is something that's going to come up a lot, and it's very, very good, although it may be a little canon heavy for your first Fantastic Four foray. Extremely strong focus on Reed at the beginning, and Hickman writes an excellent Reed, but it's home to one of the greatest Johnny stories ever written, which is Johnny's death and resurrection in the Negative Zone.
The reading order for this one is a little tricky. Start with Dark Reign: Fantastic Four #1-5, a miniseries I would recommend anyway. Then Fantastic Four #570-588 -> Amazing Spider-Man #657 -> #FF (2011) 1-11 -> Fantastic Four #600, FF #12. Continue reading the two series interchangeably past that point until the run concludes with Fantastic Four #611 and FF #23. FF is just the initials (it stands for Future Foundation), and you want the initial 2011 run. Yes, the Amazing Spider-Man issue is necessary.
I'm behind on North's run, like, considerably, but I've heard good things and one of its strengths as a new reader is that it's episodic, so it's many smaller stories strung together rather than one longer story like Hickman or Robinson. However, you will need a strong tolerance for a Truly Abhorrent Mustache. (I'm a hater I'm not apologizing for this. Johnny does not have the confidence or self-esteem to pull off that mustache and it's not nearly tacky enough to circle back around.) For North's run, you want Fantastic Four (2022) #1-33, and then the ongoing Fantastic Four (2025).
I would also recommend Mythos: Fantastic Four, a gorgeous oneshot that offers an alternative look at the Fantastic Four's origin, and Human Torch (2003) #1-6. Human Torch #1-6 is the first arc in Johnny's solo, involving him solving a murder mystery involving the NYFD and a fellow pyrokinetic.
Runs I don't really recommend as your first go round, but are very good in general: Claremont's run and Fraction's run. Look, I love Claremont's run and I think it has some of the strongest character work in the series. Does a single storyline in it make totally complete, coherent sense? No. Not even a little bit. It's very vibes-based storytelling. So it's good, but it's not a beginner run. Fantastic Four v3 #1-32. (Technically, Claremont came on with issue #4, but you might as well read the first three.)
I would also recommend Marvel Two-in-1 (2017), with the caveat that it takes place during the years when Fantastic Four was banished from the shelves over a film rights dispute, and so you might not want to start with it. You asked for stories with good characterization and good dynamics between the team, though, especially strong Johnny characterization, and this is very, very good. With Reed and Sue and the kids gone and presumed dead, Ben and Johnny go on a universe hopping road trip to find their missing family. The problem? Ben is lying. He believes Reed and Sue are dead, and he's trying to buy time and keep Johnny from hurting himself. The other problem? Their powers are slowly failing. Third problem? Dr. Doom's invited himself along. Twelve issues, and I will say it starts to fall apart towards the end -- it made some choices with an alternate Peter that made me so mad I wrote a 30k fanfic about it, and the last two issues don't so much resolve things as just put a nice little bow on an unexplained resolution. But the rest of it is still strong enough that I would rec it even given those reservations. Seriously such good work with Ben and Johnny.
Also, look at how good these uniforms look. I long for that jacket. (Marvel Two-in-1 #4)
Fraction's run is another mostly self-contained storyline in that the whole run is one story. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, and it has an interesting premise -- the Fantastic Four's powers are killing them. In order to buy enough time to find a cure, Reed lies to his family and takes them on a road trip. But I don't love it as much as the other runs, and it ties very heavily into FF (just the initials) v2, to the point where you can't read them separately. So, totally fine, but not a recommended starting place because there are other, stronger options. I'd read it once you're already comfortable with the team. Its FF is delightful in general. Fantastic Four v4 #1-16, FF v2 #1-16.
I think Marvel Knights 4 #1-30 is overall an enjoyable comic, but that it is very, very, very early 2000s, and the characterization is sometimes shaky. Later it delves into some canon heavier subjects, like the Fantastic Four's relationship with the Inhumans. Worth the read, but I wouldn't start with it.
Runs I Don't Recommend Starting With: Byrne, DeFalco, Millar, Fantastic Four v2, Ultimate Fantastic Four.
Byrne: Byrne's run encompasses Fantastic Four #232-295 and it's iconic. I do think it's very important. I do not recommend it straight off the bat. A lot of fandom preconceptions about Reed and Sue come out of his run, and I, personally, don't really enjoy how he wrote either of them. Byrne has a very well documented older man/younger woman thing that he will shove into everything given half the opportunity, which he does with his retcon of Reed and Sue's first meeting, and also with Ben's Uncle Jake and Aunt Petunia. Again, I think it's an important run. I just wouldn't start with it. That being said, I think he writes a really good Johnny, unfortunately. If you want to try out a tiny little dose of it, I would read Fantastic Four #285, a one shot about a lonely boy who adores Johnny and, tragically, sets himself on fire trying to emulate him. Really good, but obviously very depressing.
DeFalco: Ughhhhhh. Listen, I'm not saying don't read it, but it's like my least favorite for a reason. DeFalco's run is disjointed, emotionally inconsistent, and very 90s in a bad way. Save it for when you run out of other issues, or if you really, for some reason, want to read the Lyja storyline. Fantastic Four #356-416.
Millar: I think this run has interesting storylines, and I enjoy reading it, but I also think it's bad. I think Millar writes a bad Johnny, overly influenced by the 2005 movie's characterization, before ultimately tripping his way into some insightful characterization. What he did to Alyssa Moy, Reed's high society genius rich girl of a former situationship and Ben's almost love interest, is criminal. (Hickman is also on thin ice there but Millar paved the way for him.) Fantastic Four #554-569.
Fantastic Four v2: This is an interesting case. In the 90s, Marvel outsourced production of the Fantastic Four, and essentially "rebooted" the story in a bubble universe. It's a shallow retelling of earlier Fantastic Four stories that ends up linking back to the main universe in Fantastic Four v3. I almost always recommend skipping this, unless you want to read everything for the sake of completion. Fantastic Four v2 #1-13.
Ultimate Fantastic Four: You'll see this come up sometimes on recommended reading lists as an alternative to reading from the 60s onwards. They are lying to you. This is a bad comic in a separate continuity that cannot remember its own continuity from issue to issue. That being said I've read it five times. Ultimate Fantastic Four reinvents the Fantastic Four in the confines of the original Ultimate universe as a group of kids attached to a government think tank who are horrifically changed following an attempt to reach an alternate dimension. Like a lot of other comics in this section, I think it's worth reading, but not if you're starting out. The dynamics and relationships are very different than the main continuity, and again, it's like. It's just a total mess of a comic. It's probably best known for being the home of the Maker, an evil alternative version of Reed Richards.
Everything used to be 20 dollars and now that I finally have 20 dollars everything is now 200 dollars
Before going to New York I only heard Queens because of spiderman and i thought they were exagerating the violence there, then the first time I arrive to a Queens air bnd there is a shooting next door and the police called our door to ask if we were doing meth, and then told us to find a safer place
I believe that is a normal Peter Parker day
anon who told you to get an air bnb in queens when you were visiting new york. 😭
also this ask is very funny to me as someone whose parents regularly wax poetic about the good old days of stepping over maybe-dead bodies in the port authority. or the time I was a kid in LA and our neighbor got arrested for growing marijuana and my father had to like, go into the house with an escort to get his rottweiler so nobody shot the dog. (the dog was fine, the college kids across the street ended up adopting him. super sweet dog, but y'know, a not very well trained rottweiler.) so I think this is just like -- that's an experience you can have in a lot of urban spaces. but seriously who told you to get an air bnb in an outer borough.
okay, so, the thing about Marvel is that a lot of comics are rooted in a particular time, and going forward they don't necessarily reflect how those neighborhoods have evolved. the classic example here is Hell's Kitchen in Daredevil. that is a super safe, very trendy neighborhood in recent years. the roughest thing that's ever happened to me there is some guy followed me for two blocks talking about my ass, and that could happen anywhere. there have been periods in the past, though, where that was just a neighborhood you didn't walk through, and Daredevil perpetually lives in that space. same thing with Spider-Man, but with the caveat that Peter does extremely little crimefighting in Queens. Peter only lives in Queens for very brief, specific periods of time, and beyond that, he lives in Forest Hills, which is both a traditionally very Jewish and fairly affluent section of Queens. this is another way to inform Peter's character, as someone from a family experiencing financial hardship in an environment that is traditionally affluent. But Queens is not a monolith. Forest Hills, Flushing, Elmhurst, Jamaica, Breezy Point, these are all distinct neighborhoods. I think there can be a lot of confusion in between the expectation of New York, and how that relates to Spider-Man, and the reality -- like, people get confused sometimes about why Peter is depicted as having grown up in a freestanding house, when they think of New York as all apartments, or about his commute time between boroughs. and this is not to knock people in fandom kind of playing into Pop Culture NYC, because professional writers do it, too, but it is just kind of funny to me every time. I hope the rest of your trip to NYC was, uh, only the good kind of eventful, but I'm also framing this ask.
Nicolas Bruno, The Embellished Collection
If you're writing anything involving cons, scams, heists, or morally questionable characters who are very good at lying, here are some free resources I've been using for research. Saving you the "why is this in my search history" anxiety.
1. The FBI's Famous Cases & Criminals archive (fbi.gov/history/famous-cases) has detailed breakdowns of real fraud cases, Ponzi schemes, and confidence operations. The language they use is clinical and precise, which is perfect for getting the procedural details right.
2. The FTC Consumer Sentinel Network publishes annual reports on the most common fraud tactics in the US. Great for understanding how modern scams actually work and what makes people fall for them.
3. The Smithsonian's American Art Museum has a free digital collection of forgery case studies. If your character forges documents or art, this is gold.
4. Court Listener (courtlistener.com) is a free legal database where you can read actual court transcripts from fraud trials. Want to know how a real con artist talks under oath? This is where you find out.
5. The Internet Archive's collection of old newspaper crime sections. Search for "confidence man" or "swindle" in papers from the 1920s through 1960s and you'll find incredible real stories that would feel too dramatic for fiction.
Bonus: The Psychology of Fraud section on the Association for Psychological Science website has accessible articles about why people trust, how deception works cognitively, and what makes someone a convincing liar. Essential reading if you want your con artist characters to feel psychologically real.
Reblog to save for later. Your WIP will thank you.
If you haven't lived around a specific type of Mexican or Italian or other generationally Catholic community I have no idea how to explain to people who haven't seen it like... Yes many of my peers are Catholic. No they are not Catholic. No I mean like they're VERY Catholic. No they're not even a LITTLE bit Catholic. Yes they do Catholic things. No they don't do any Catholic things. They're debilitatingly Catholic, yes. No, I don't think anyone could reasonably call them Catholic
"No I don't believe in God, no I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, that's ridiculous. I have no time for any of that. Church? On a Sunday? I get two days off a week and you want me to spend one of those days in a stuffy building and give away the money I spent five days earning? Ridiculous. Now please shut up so I can pray to the Virgin to give me the strength to not kill my coworker as well as to St. Cabrini so I can find a good parking spot behind the CVS tonight"
“The World” tarot card from the Waite-Trinick Tarot (John B Trinick, Wilfrid Pippet, & AE Waite) c. 1923
Traincat, my friend is PeterFel lover, but everytime MJ comes in the Spider-Man game that I’ve been streaming, she starts booing MJ. When I asked, she said she doesn’t like MJ because she’s a pick-me girl and it upsets me. She only knows of MJ from the Raimi films and the MCU films. Traincat, what comics can I show my friend to help her not dislike MJ, because I think MJ is really cool :(
Hey, anon!
I can definitely get you some good MJ comics that prove she's the furthest thing from a "pick-me" type. MJ does not care if you pick her. MJ will leave. She will leave first. It's one of my favorite things about her! She's a leaver! She's a survivalist!
That being said, if your friend is anti-MJ for shipping reasons, unfortunately there's a good chance I can throw every good comic in the world at you and it's not really going to make much of a difference. Just as a fair warning here -- it's not you, it's not MJ, it's probably not even your friend, it's toxic shipping culture. This is coming from someone who ships PeterMJ and PeterFelicia and PeterGwen and wow that's been fun this whole time. So try not to take it too personally, anon. I hope your friend likes these comics and changes her mind, but that ultimately has to be on her willingness to embrace a new character despite shipping preferences.
So normally with a character list, I'd go in chronological order, but I think we're going to take a slightly different approach here, not in the least because Mary Jane is, initially, an enigma. She's confusing to Peter. She doesn't open up. She drops hints that there's more going on with her than her party girl image, but she doesn't open that door. So I'm going to kind of theme some recs instead and jump around a little. Our goal is to introduce who MJ is as a character as quickly as possible. For right now, we're gonna take you up through the marriage -- if you want later recs, I can grab those, too, but I think these are good comics to start with if the goal is understand Mary Jane as a character.
Amazing Spider-Man #42-43: This is Mary Jane's first "official" appearance -- she had previously been on panel in Amazing Spider-Man #25, but her face was hidden from the reader and Peter never sees her. This is the origin of the famous "face it, tiger, you just hit the jackpot" line. You could also check out Spider-Man: Blue, a miniseries retelling those days, if your friend struggles with 60s comics. Bonus: ASM #59, the first cover appearance of MJ, featuring danger at the club where she's working.
In general, I think the MJ's over the top 60s dialogue is a distraction. People get too caught up on how she talks and ignore how she acts. There's a fun dynamic that emerges with Peter here where he's put off by her party girl act and she knows it. She flirts with him to annoy him, to put on a show, and to reenforce to Harry, who she was seeing at the time, that she's her own girl and she can do whatever she wants. Mary Jane is very much a free agent at this point.
She gets to be the commitment-phobe. It's fun to watch her struggling with that as the relationship between her and Peter becomes closer after Gwen's death: See ASM #122, ASM #127, ASM #131.
"This is going to sound like a cop-out... but I don't want to love him. Can you dig it? I like the guy too much for that kind of scene." (ASM #131)
And their first kiss in Amazing Spider-Man #143.
Case in point, Amazing Spider-Man #182-183. In ASM #182, Peter proposes for the first time.
"Gulp!" And in ASM #183, MJ gives the ring back and leaves his ass. She's a leaver! I love that about her! Someone is going to get mad at me probably for saying she's a leaver, and it's true that once she and Peter are in a committed relationship and they've faced their own demons, there are a million times she's stayed when the going gets tough. But I think there's something very valuable in a major female character who will leave. A character who can and has prioritized her own safety and wellbeing, and who isn't afraid to get the hell out of there when the ship is sinking. It's an interesting and admirable trait, and it makes sense for her as a character.
And we know why she's such a commitment-phobe. Normally, I'm in favor of the slow approach when it comes to discovering Mary Jane's background, but we're trying to woo your friend here. So let's skip to her backstory issue.
Amazing Spider-Man #257-259: In ASM #257, MJ reveals that she's known Peter is Spider-Man the whole time. In ASM #259, we learn her full backstory for the first time.
If I had to toss one issue at someone to get them to understand Mary Jane Watson, it would be ASM #259. I'll be honest, I think this backstory reveal works much better if you've been reading her previous appearances, because it's one of those stories that throws everything we previously knew about a character into stark relief. But even if you're skipping ahead, it's still a very good issue, and I think it's hard to read it and not feel something for Mary Jane and her situation.
Cheater's edition: Read Amazing Spider-Man: Parallel Lives, a graphic novel by Gerry Conway that condenses a lot of this information and continues through Peter and Mary Jane's marriage.
This period has some really good Mary Jane stories. With Peter's secret out in the open, MJ begins to take on more of a confidante role, while at the same time you watch her struggle with the danger of Peter's identity. Some good issues: Spectacular Spider-Man #113, Spectacular Spider-Man #121, Web of Spider-Man #12, Amazing Spider-Man #286, and Amazing Spider-Man Annual #19.
Amazing Spider-Man #261 is a great issue where Mary Jane is taken captive along with Harry Osborn and a very pregnant Liz Allan. It's great for highlighting key things about Harry and MJ both -- that Harry is, essentially, at his core, not a violent person, and that he resents himself for it, and that MJ is not afraid to hit anyone with anything blunt and heavy.
Good for her.
The second proposal arc and the wedding are really good, too. In Amazing Spider-Man #290, Peter proposes for the second time. In ASM #291, MJ turns him down again. In ASM #292, they face her family and she decides to marry him.
The actual wedding takes place in Amazing Spider-Man Annual #21, following by the honeymoon in Spectacular Spider-Man Annual #7. Both of these are really fun issues, but they're also good looks at Mary Jane's side of the struggles, of what she's giving up to marry Peter and how it effects her life.
So those are really abridged recs, but I think they're a good showcase of who Mary Jane is as a character at her core. I also think One Moment in Time (Amazing Spider-Man #638-641) offers some really interesting insights into the character, a look at the current altered timeline where she and Peter didn't get married.
(ASM #639)
One more recommendation, since your friend is a fan of Felicia: Web of Spider-Man (2009) #11-12, where Felicia and Mary Jane team up after Peter's deal with the devil wiped almost everyone's memories. It's not a perfect team up, but it's not bogged down in a whole lot of related canon, like their more recent interactions.
I hope this helps a little! Good luck! ❤️
The Marvel editorial will pay for there crimes
is this about Spider-Man because I saw that page and just closed tumblr.
for the people who want to know, wednesday spoilers for ASM (2025) #30 under the cut.
The Marvel editorial will pay for there crimes
is this about Spider-Man because I saw that page and just closed tumblr.
'To be loved at last'
IkeSoren to celebrate me finishing the Tellius games for the first time 💙
dip shit you are not turning into the joker. you are barely even turning into the penguin or th e ice guy
a critique that always irks me a little is when people say a fictional gay male relationship is actually being written as a lesbian relationship, like first of all what does that even mean and second of all a good chunk of the time it seems like people are only saying that because the men are emotionally vulnerable with each other
many out there, even among my fellow lgbtqs, seem to hold a “hotcock” view of gay relationships
Lovers, 1982, by Harry Holland
This cutie popped up while I was reading Siege (2009) :) 🩵
Bonus Peter being so done with everything (and cursing because I like it when he does that):
Wha hey and you’re not gonna share with the class 😔?
woefully incomprehensive
💬 1 🔁 42 ❤️ 149 · Peter Parker swearing: · "Holy @$#%%" - ("Holy shit") (Amazing Spider-Man #597) — "@☆xxx%#@ bureaucrats!" - ("Goddamn/
Personally, I'm a big fan of "you selfish sonova -- bus!" (ASM #205)
And in TASM, Peter's go-to curse word is definitely "motherfucker." He cuts himself off from it once ("Mother -- Hubbard.") and you can see him mouth it in another instance.