The Virtual Beit Midrash

A place for all Jews to study, argue and enjoy Torah

[girlactionfigure]

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Though I agree it's a ridiculous statement - this set of talmud is also ridiculous. Add enough translations and commentaries and copy every page several times and any book can take up a shelf. This is also because the "format of the page" as it was printed in the late 19th century became so important that it cannot be changed. And any additions (translations etc.) have to work around it.

As for "reading the talmud". That's like reading the US Federal Code, with all the supreme court decisions on it through the existence of the US. And thinking it's light reading that you can just skim through.

[jewishconvertthings]

If you had to pick one song, psalm, or other part of the traditional liturgy that best expresses your feelings to Hashem, what would it be?

For me, it would be Yedid Nefesh.

[jewish-tutter]

so what’s the discourse on converts (goyim who convert, no jewish background) to humanistic judaism? it’s always seemed…inauthentic to me, but i’m wanting to hear other opinions

i know it’s rejected by the main branches

[nbmonarch-judaism]

I know that @yidquotes has some infos about it (tho I might be wrong because traitor brain)? And specifically the conversion process to humanistic judaism

[yidquotes]

Humanistic Judaism doesn’t hold halacha as binding so their conversion process is indeed different. All you have to do is align yourself with the Jewish people and that’s effectively it. There is the perferable process of reaching out to one of the rabbis and fomalizing the whole shebang with joining the Society but that’s not necessary. You are then adopted into the community and have the option of attending events if there are any near you or participating online.

No matter how you convert there will be other Jews who will invalidate the process you went through. Even if you were to convert Orthodox and live in a frum community, there would be other Orthodox Jews and rabbis who would argue it wasn’t done right and was therefore not a real conversion.

I am of the opinion that we should accept sincere people of any movement or branch into the Jewish community. This pot calling the kettle black commentary is rather pathetic.

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Reform Jews do not see Halacha as binding either.  

The question here is not whether Halacha is binding, but whether you make any requirements of new converts.     As far as I understood from the Humanistic Judaism representative on Tumblr, there are no requirements whatsoever.  Anybody who feels Jewish, is Jewish.

In the US today, there are quite a lot of people who self-identify as Jews.  According to Pew, there are 1.2 million such people.  In fact, there’s no lack of people on Tumblr who want to be Jewish, and would love to skip the pesky conversion process.  The question is whether you, or Humanistic Judaism, or any Jewish group, accept them as Jews.

[felgueirosa]

i don’t think i ever showed y’all my haggadah! i bought it as chanukah gift for myself a few years ago bc i’m that person. it’s supposedly trilingual in italqi, yiddish, and ladino, but the text that’s not in hebrew is so tiny that i can’t really read it and the space between words is virtually non-existant so i can’t tell where one word ends and another ends. i’m not used to reading ladino in hebrew letters so i can’t read it very well.

but anyways i like it because it’s pretty and in ladino and italqi, even if i can’t read it. it looks very old but this one was actually printed in the 80s. it is still fragile though.

anyways chag sameach pesach!

[virtual-beit-midrash]

I think the Haggadah has instructions in both Yiddish and Ladino. 

The text surrounding the Hebrew script is the Abarbanel commentary.  There’s also a much shorter mystical commentary.

The Haggadah can also be viewed here:

http://beta.nli.org.il/he/manuscripts/NNL_ALEPH000171744/NLI#$FL16680175

[felgueirosa]

Ooh thank you for the online link! Yeah besides the Hebrew prayers, the introduction to the Haggadah in English says it’s in Italqi, Yiddish, and Ladino in that order.

[virtual-beit-midrash]

I got the link wrong:

http://beta.nli.org.il/he/manuscripts/NNL_ALEPH000171744/NLI

(the link I posted is just the cover..)

I also found the Italqi.  On the page detailing the order of the Seder, you have Italian on the right (”leshon laaz” - foreign tongue), Ladino on the left (”leshon sefarad - Spanish tongue) and Yiddish in the center (no intro necessary)

For example, for “Kiddush”, it says in Italqi “Si dici lo kiddush” and in Ladino “dire kiddush”, and I can’t fully make out the Yiddish “fer un zachin something kiddush something”

If you’re interested in the Italqi, i could try transliterating it

http://beta.nli.org.il/he/manuscripts/NNL_ALEPH000171744/NLI#$FL16680153

More on this Hagaddah by Tovia Preschel (who published it):

http://www.toviapreschel.com/the-hamburg-amsterdam-haggadah-of-1728/

Our Haggadah is an exact copy of the Amsterdam Haggadah, containing all its features: The decorated title page, the beautiful pictures, the “order” of the Seder in Judeo-Italian, Judeo-German and Judeo-Spanish, the Ashkenazi as well as Sefardi version of the Grace after Meals, the Judeo-German versions of the songs Adir Hu, Ehad Mi Yode’a and Had Gadya, the commentaries (an abridged version of Don Isaac Abravanel’s commentary and a short esoteric commentary) as well as the map showing the division of the Land of Israel among the Twelve Tribes.

[felgueirosa]

i don’t think i ever showed y’all my haggadah! i bought it as chanukah gift for myself a few years ago bc i’m that person. it’s supposedly trilingual in italqi, yiddish, and ladino, but the text that’s not in hebrew is so tiny that i can’t really read it and the space between words is virtually non-existant so i can’t tell where one word ends and another ends. i’m not used to reading ladino in hebrew letters so i can’t read it very well.

but anyways i like it because it’s pretty and in ladino and italqi, even if i can’t read it. it looks very old but this one was actually printed in the 80s. it is still fragile though.

anyways chag sameach pesach!

[virtual-beit-midrash]

I think the Haggadah has instructions in both Yiddish and Ladino. 

The text surrounding the Hebrew script is the Abarbanel commentary.  There’s also a much shorter mystical commentary.

The Haggadah can also be viewed here:

http://beta.nli.org.il/he/manuscripts/NNL_ALEPH000171744/NLI#$FL16680175

[virtual-beit-midrash]

re Kitniyot...

Satire group Underdos came out with a Pesach clip “your kitinyot” (in Hebrew), parodying the trouble of a Sephardi husband who needs to go to his Ashkenazi wife’s parents for Pesach - and nothing looks like food.

[talmudicsuggestions]

we are the original discourse

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Call out culture started in Eretz Yisrael

But there must be a better name for it - we’re not talking about calling out people for something they did 20 years ago

[virtual-beit-midrash]

There are various opinions on Kitniyot: how this restriction originated and why, whether it applies today, and what it applies to.   

There are also Sephardi groups, specifically Moroccans, who have various stringencies on this issue.

This issue comes up every year in Israel, where “kosher for passover” products are in general not Ashkenazi-friendly and may include kitniyot. 

There are leading Orthodox rabbis who minimized the restriction to the bare requirements.

The most important thing to remember is that whatever your minhag (tradition) and level of stringency about it, Kitniyot are not Chametz

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Somebody: Ashkenazim are forbidden from eating kitniyot on Passover.

Me, waving the Conservative movement's Teshuvah Permitting Ashkenazim to Eat Kitniyot on Pesach in the air while unapologetically stuffing my face with Biryani: #NotAllAshkenazim

[badwolflupin-deactivated2023101]

so proud to belong to a religion where it is legit to throw hard candy at the heads of your relatives on certain occasions

[virtual-beit-midrash]

There is also a tradition to interrupt your relatives and friends with song as they’re giving a Very Serious Drasha in honor of their Bar Mitzvah/wedding/any other occasion.  

A few reasons for this:

1. To save the drasha-giver from embarassment.  It’s far easier to fudge sentences when there’s constant interruptions anyway

2. To teach the drasha-giver that life is not easy - they must persevere despite the challenges

[tanach-929]

#188: Yehoshua/Joshua Chapter 1

929 chapter link: http://www.929.org.il/lang/en/page/188

Mechon Mamre link: https://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0601.htm

1 Now it came to pass after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD, that the LORD spoke unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying: 2 ‘Moses My servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, to you have I given it, as I spoke unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness, and this Lebanon, even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the Great Sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your border. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life; as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee; I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of good courage; for thou shalt cause this people to inherit the land which I swore unto their fathers to give them. 7 Only be strong and very courageous, to observe to do according to all the law, which Moses My servant commanded thee; turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest have good success whithersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein; for then thou shalt make thy ways prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of good courage; be not affrighted, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.’ {P}

10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying: 11 'Pass through the midst of the camp, and command the people, saying: Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye are to pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the LORD your God giveth you to possess it.’ {P}

12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to the half-tribe of Manasseh, spoke Joshua, saying: 13 'Remember the word which Moses the servant of the LORD commanded, you, saying: The LORD your God giveth you rest, and will give you this land. 14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall abide in the land which Moses gave you beyond the Jordan; but ye shall pass over before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and shall help them; 15 until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as unto you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them; then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and possess it, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave you beyond the Jordan toward the sunrising.’ 16 And they answered Joshua, saying: 'All that thou hast commanded us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us we will go. 17 According as we hearkened unto Moses in all things, so will we hearken unto thee; only the LORD thy God be with thee, as He was with Moses. 18 Whosoever he be that shall rebel against thy commandment, and shall not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death; only be strong and of good courage.’ {P}

Have any thoughts, opinions, feelings or insights on this chapter?  Please share!

[virtual-beit-midrash]

929 is an Israeli project to read through the all Tanach, one chapter a day.  Now on its second cycle, it has a dedicated English-language site.

https://www.929.org.il/lang/en/

The project now finished Torah, and are going on to Prophets (Neviim).  Only 741 chapters to go!

[atheostic]

Question for Theist Jews, Christians, & Muslims

Why did it take God 6 days to create everything?

I mean, if he can create light by simply saying “let there be light” surely he can create everything else just as easily and quickly? 

And as a follow-up, why did he need to rest on the seventh day? 

Was he fatigued from creating everything? 

Because if so, that means he overexerted himself, which necessarily means his powers are limited and there are things he cannot do.

[progressivejudaism]

That’s a great question.  From which Jewish perspective are you asking from?

[atheostic]

I’m not Jewish myself, which is part of why I’m asking Jewish people about their perspective. I’ve read much of the Torah, but reading a religion’s holy book can only get you so far in learning about it. 

I’m most interested to hear from any theist Jewish folk (that is, people who are religiously Jewish rather than just culturally so) or any ex-theist Jewish folk who have the insight into the mindset in their past denomination. 

Though I’d also be interested to hear from any Jewish atheists who are familiar with Judaic theology …or any Jewish atheists’ thoughts on the question. (I’m easily pleased, I guess, lol)

Since different denominations always have different responses (let alone any further disagreements from person to person), I’m always interested to hear from as many denominations as possible so I (as well as anyone else interested in the matter) can have a wider, more detailed, and more well-rounded view of the religion at large.

You’re so far the only one who has answered with any civility or interest in having an actual conversation, so thanks. :)

[virtual-beit-midrash]

In any case, your answer was posited as one-upmanship.  I did not realize you’re really looking for an answer.  You should realize that atheist blogs constantly “question” (aka harass) theistic blogs.  (Also, you didn’t respond to my answer at all.).

So, first things first.  You will definitely not learn anything about Jewish thought by reading the Torah.   Jews do not read or understand it literally.

Six days - Jewish sages already two thousand years ago debated whether creation took six days.  There are opinions that it did not, with various calculations as to how long is a ‘divine day’.

As for God resting - the most simple answer is to look at what Jews do in memory of the first seventh day.  We “rest”.  Now, what does that mean?  It means in general that we are banned from doing any action that creates something new.  We do not light a fire, even if that means flicking on a switch.  This is not due to over-exertion.

So, no, God did not over-exert himself.  He just stopped creating.  According to Jewish theology, nothing was created after the first “Six Days”.

Another simple answer - as I’ve written on this blog before - is that Jews do believe in limiting God.  We believe in arguing with God.  We believe in God changing his mind, and learning from us. 

So God overexerting himself is really the least of it.

[virtual-beit-midrash]

As expected, the person who complained about getting no answers, disappeared.  Despite the fact that there are quite a few good answers on this thread.

I think the most basic aspect that atheists don’t get, is that Torah is a guide for an ethical life, not a scientific or logical manual.  The “how can the world be created in six days” and “did God need to rest?!” are completely irrelevant to the daily life of a believing Jew.  What is relevant is that Jews innovated the week, with a week-end as a time when people of all social classes, and even animals, get time off.   We get off the treadmill.  We stop creating in order to contemplate the world around us.

I don’t see how playing “gotcha” questions changes that. 

Atheist France tried to do away with the 7-day week and weekend.  Why do we need so many weekends, anyway?   Why don’t atheists adopt that today? 

[atheostic]

Question for Theist Jews, Christians, & Muslims

Why did it take God 6 days to create everything?

I mean, if he can create light by simply saying “let there be light” surely he can create everything else just as easily and quickly? 

And as a follow-up, why did he need to rest on the seventh day? 

Was he fatigued from creating everything? 

Because if so, that means he overexerted himself, which necessarily means his powers are limited and there are things he cannot do.

[progressivejudaism]

That’s a great question.  From which Jewish perspective are you asking from?

[atheostic]

I’m not Jewish myself, which is part of why I’m asking Jewish people about their perspective. I’ve read much of the Torah, but reading a religion’s holy book can only get you so far in learning about it. 

I’m most interested to hear from any theist Jewish folk (that is, people who are religiously Jewish rather than just culturally so) or any ex-theist Jewish folk who have the insight into the mindset in their past denomination. 

Though I’d also be interested to hear from any Jewish atheists who are familiar with Judaic theology …or any Jewish atheists’ thoughts on the question. (I’m easily pleased, I guess, lol)

Since different denominations always have different responses (let alone any further disagreements from person to person), I’m always interested to hear from as many denominations as possible so I (as well as anyone else interested in the matter) can have a wider, more detailed, and more well-rounded view of the religion at large.

You’re so far the only one who has answered with any civility or interest in having an actual conversation, so thanks. :)

[virtual-beit-midrash]

In any case, your answer was posited as one-upmanship.  I did not realize you’re really looking for an answer.  You should realize that atheist blogs constantly “question” (aka harass) theistic blogs.  (Also, you didn’t respond to my answer at all.).

So, first things first.  You will definitely not learn anything about Jewish thought by reading the Torah.   Jews do not read or understand it literally.

Six days - Jewish sages already two thousand years ago debated whether creation took six days.  There are opinions that it did not, with various calculations as to how long is a ‘divine day’.

As for God resting - the most simple answer is to look at what Jews do in memory of the first seventh day.  We “rest”.  Now, what does that mean?  It means in general that we are banned from doing any action that creates something new.  We do not light a fire, even if that means flicking on a switch.  This is not due to over-exertion.

So, no, God did not over-exert himself.  He just stopped creating.  According to Jewish theology, nothing was created after the first “Six Days”.

Another simple answer - as I’ve written on this blog before - is that Jews do believe in limiting God.  We believe in arguing with God.  We believe in God changing his mind, and learning from us. 

So God overexerting himself is really the least of it.

[virtual-beit-midrash]

deborahdeshoftim5779

@virtual-beit-midrash​ Great response. Any interpretation that draws from Mesopotamia and Egypt immediately misses the entire point of the Jewish faith. The whole point is to reject the actions of surrounding nations, not emulate them.

We didn’t grow up in a vacuum, so it makes sense we were heavily influenced by surrounding cultures.  We still are.

I do agree that in many cases where Tanach is quoted to prove that Judaism copied from surrounding cultures, the real question should be: what did we do differently. 

So, when it comes to the sexuality of gods of ancient cultures.. what did we do differently?

Yechezkel Kaufman, eminent biblical scholar, writes that by developing the idea of a monotheistic God, the ancient Israelites rejected the femininity of Godhood, which was so prevalent in surrounding cultures, and that this posed serious problems, especially for women. 

In fact, we can see slow developments on this issue throughout the Prophets, who took the idea of divine familial mythology and enacted it through Israel and God. 

[yidquotes]

I’m a rabbi, and so I’m particularly saddened whenever religious arguments are brought in to defend social prejudices — as they often are in the discussion about transgender rights. In fact, the Hebrew Bible, when read in its original language, offers a highly elastic view of gender. And I do mean highly elastic: In Genesis 3:12, Eve is referred to as “he.” In Genesis 9:21, after the flood, Noah repairs to “her” tent. Genesis 24:16 refers to Rebecca as a “young man.” And Genesis 1:27 refers to Adam as “them.”

Surprising, I know. And there are many other, even more vivid examples: In Esther 2:7, Mordecai is pictured as nursing his niece Esther. In a similar way, in Isaiah 49:23, the future kings of Israel are prophesied to be “nursing kings.”

Why would the Bible do this? These aren’t typos. In the ancient world, well-expressed gender fluidity was the mark of a civilized person. Such a person was considered more “godlike.” In Ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt, the gods were thought of as gender-fluid, and human beings were considered reflections of the gods. The Israelite ideal of the “nursing king” seems to have been based on a real person: a woman by the name of Hatshepsut who, after the death of her husband, Thutmose II, donned a false beard and ascended the throne to become one of Egypt’s greatest pharaohs.

The Israelites took the transgender trope from their surrounding cultures and wove it into their own sacred scripture. The four-Hebrew-letter name of God, which scholars refer to as the Tetragrammaton, YHWH, was probably not pronounced “Jehovah” or “Yahweh,” as some have guessed. The Israelite priests would have read the letters in reverse as Hu/Hi — in other words, the hidden name of God was Hebrew for “He/She.” Counter to everything we grew up believing, the God of Israel — the God of the three monotheistic, Abrahamic religions to which fully half the people on the planet today belong — was understood by its earliest worshipers to be a dual-gendered deity. - Rabbi Mark Sameth

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Most of these examples rely on the script and not on the accepted reading of the text.  This means that there is a tradition of writing the words one way, but reading something different.  In all the cases mentioned here, the issue is with an additional/missing vowel letter.  In fact, in ancient hebrew script, such letters were often dropped and the difference between “his tent” and “her tent” or “boy” and “girl” was not at all apparent in writing.

In the famous text found in Khirbet Qeiyafa, from the early royal period, “widow” is written in the text as “widower” (ie, without the final “heh”)

For some reason, not one scholar suggested that this is the actual way it should be read, and that this is some idea of gender fluidity or a male only society in which we’re only supposed to take care of the (male) widower and the (male) orphan.

In the Siloam tunnel inscription, “man” is written “aleph-shin”, which reads out as “fire”.  We can get to very interesting conclusions from this about how the people in that era saw humans as fire-beings. 

But let’s assume that the text and not the reading is important.  Rabbi Sameth builds a whole theory of gender on these additional/missing letters.  in the case of Rebecca particularly, it might definitely mean something.  Rebecca is not acting like a girl should.  She’s the one deciding who she’s going to marry.  (and in the future, she’s the one going to tell Yitzhak and Yaakov how to act).  This might not be so much about her gender, so much as her gender role.   As for what this means about Noah? Maybe it has something to do with the biblical researchers who claim, based on the rest of the story, that the deed is censored and that he was actually castrated.

Isaiah 49:23 does not talk about nursing kings.  It talks about  foster kings and nursing female ministers.  This is the same word used to describe Mordechai’s relationship to Esther.  He did not nurse her. 

I’m not even sure what to say about Rabbi Sameth’s innovative idea as to how the name of God was pronounced.  Suddenly we read the letters in whatever order we  want to?  

[atheostic]

Question for Theist Jews, Christians, & Muslims

Why did it take God 6 days to create everything?

I mean, if he can create light by simply saying “let there be light” surely he can create everything else just as easily and quickly? 

And as a follow-up, why did he need to rest on the seventh day? 

Was he fatigued from creating everything? 

Because if so, that means he overexerted himself, which necessarily means his powers are limited and there are things he cannot do.

[yidquotes]

Here is a prime example of fundamentalist Christianized atheism.

Might as well shout it from the rooftops bud that you don’t believe in religion, don’t understand religion and can’t comprehend that the religious groups you are calling out just might have pondered these questions long before you were born.

But of course, this is the internet, so might as well just offer a gotcha question to religious folks instead of typing in your browser something along the lines of ‘how does x religious group grapple with x theological question?’

We’ve thought about it, argued about it and have written scores of pages on it and it’s all readily available if you actually wanted to read about it. But you don’t. You just want to prattle on about how stupid theists are for not thinking about what they believe.

[virtual-beit-midrash]

One Jewish interpretation for this is that on the Seventh Day, God created the Sabbath. 

As it says in Genesis Rabbah 10.9, the Babylonian scholar Geniva, and the rabbis argued on this point.

Geniva compared it to a king who prepares a bridal chamber, which he plastered, painted, and adorned; now what did the bridal chamber lack? A bride to enter it. Similarly, what did the world still lack? The Sabbath.

The Rabbis compared it to a king who made a ring: what did it lack? A signet. Similarly, what did the world lack ? The Sabbath.

There are two different points of view here.

Geniva sees the Sabbath as the essence of creation.  A bridal chamber without a bride is worthless.  The world without a day of rest, is worthless.

Judaism introduced the idea of a weekly day of rest.  I have a feeling that the atheists making fun of these texts, don’t work straight through the weekend.  Because at the very essence of it, this religious idea is too good to pass up on.  The world without a day of rest is indeed too hard to bear.

[tikkunolamorgtfo]

I can’t believe somebody said Judaism was all about giving second chances three days before a holiday in which we mercilessly mock the sartorial choices of a man who tried to kill us 2500 years ago.

[egal-aboosta]

Okay. But the having both of those going on at once and figuring out where to apply what is so Jewish! Today (the same day we read about Amalek), I studied the ‘don’t punish children for the misdeeds of their parents’ text and we also talked about responsum on mamzerim. 

@dafyomilimerick @starlightomatic @avital-mi-beit @virtual-beit-midrash

[virtual-beit-midrash]

Also, there is a difference (at least, in tanach) between divine justice and human justice.