🖖enough🖖

20+ / f / bi my discourse talk sideblog

[city-gay]

How did ur asexual survey go?

Hey! I got a huge response to the survey, so thanks to everyone that participated. No thanks to the girl who submitted the exact same answers five (5) times in a row and thought I wouldn’t notice.

First of all, the big question: Is asexuality an LGBT identity? 39% said yes, 61% said no.

Interestingly, whether or not someone thought asexuality was LGBT didn’t depend on whether or not they were asexual. I found no correlation between being asexual and choosing one way or the other. But I did find another interesting fact.

100% of people who did NOT identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, pansexual, trans, non-binary or agender (ie cis straight people) think that asexual IS an LGBT identity. Either that or they were unsure (about 3 people).

On the other hand, if you are LGBT you’re much less likely to view asexual as an LGBT+ identity.

33% of gay men, bi and trans people (not including trans lesbians) thought asexuality is LGBT. 67% did not. 6 were unsure. Only 13% of cis lesbians think asexuality is LGBT. 86% don’t. 1 person was unsure. And, overwhelmingly, 100% of trans lesbians think that asexuality is NOT and LGBT identity. 0 were unsure.

So from the first part of the survey, we can see that if you are a lesbian, gay, bi, or trans you are much less likely to think that asexual people are LGBT, with cis & trans lesbians being the least likely. The conclusion: the overwhelming majority of LGBT people don’t think asexuals are LGBT. Cis straight people do.

18% of asexual people reported that they felt their asexuality puts them in danger of being physically or sexually assaulted. However, only 2 people said they had been assaulted (less than 1% of responses).

I included the following questions in response to a common thing I’ve heard: that asexual people are LGBT+ because they face many of the same issues. I also got A LOT of people saying this on the survey. So, I decided to include some common issues that threaten LGBT people to see whether the issues are comparable.

0 people were aware of any laws that discriminate against asexual people.

2 people (less than 1%) said they were less likely to be hired due to their asexual identity. 0 people reported losing their job or being denied a job due to their asexual identity.

3 people said they’ve been to conversion therapy in order to change (or “cure”) their asexuality. 2 people said this was because they didn’t want to be asexual. The third person didn’t specify why.

0 people reported being denied shelter/kicked out because they are ace.

If I’ve missed something, or you want more details on a specific question, please let me know!

[bisexualboygirlfriend]

i’ve lost the post now but i saw someone talking about the people who defended discourseprincesa as her ‘victims’ and directly comparing them to leftbians’ victims (victims of sexual harassment vs victims of a friend lying to them) and that’s inappropriate tbh, if ur doing that then stop it

[lemon-bunny]

Part of what made falling for DiPs lies were actually rooted in the fact that the ppl calling her out were using disgusting and invasive tactics. Of course we believed her bc other ppl are literally obsessing over her genitals and questioning her race. In this instance they turned out to be right but that doesn't make how they tried to prove it less gross. Those weren't even what was used to prove it. It was officially proven on the fluke she reblogged to her main by accident

exactly like the cishet inclusionists are blaming us for her actions yet defending some transphobic, intersexist truscum girl and a blog that obsessively analyzed posts about a supposed trans+intersex person’s genitals. 

they discredit any LGBT person who’s uncomfortable around people who are literally cis and hetero (even if that LGBT person is aro or ace themselves) but suddenly…. some ignorant dyadic cis girl is supposed to be The Voice Of Reason on trans + intersex issues…. and some creepy as shit callout blog that obsessed over a supposed trans+intersex person’s genitals (and literally never contained anything other than circumstantial evidence) is supposed to be automatically trusted. 

discourseprincesa is a mound of heaping shit that deserves to burn. but there’s a ton of problematic cishet inclusionists that don’t hide behind a persona and STILL gain support. there’s a ton of problematic cishet inclusionists that are not only popular, but are supported by the very people who are guilt-tripping us for supporting discourseprincesa. 

[problematicdragonagecharacter]

you are wrong about absolutely everything. just because you didn’t notice the red flags, doesn’t mean they weren’t there, trust me. this was not a blind grudge that turned out to be right. it’s not creepy to expose a liar. why are your priorities in explaining yourself to a ridiculous degree by demonizing the person who exposed a liar in your group of friends rather than addressing what she has done and how to remove her influence from your groups and how to prevent situations like this in the future. you’re still buying into DiPs manipulation abotu what the people who questioned her “are really about”, the very tactic she used to sustain her lies and stop them from being pointed out. you still refuse to actually look at evidence (which was actually solid because, you know, we had a reason to doubt her). you assume instead of checking. you seem bummed that she was exposed more than that she was a liar, because instead of preventing this from happening again all youre doing is making the very act of exposing someone who’s lying about their identities #creepynasty

[discourseprincesalies]

You’d think that if someone was racist, transphobic, and intersexist enough to impersonate an Afro-Latina intersex trans woman, and speak in a parody of AAVE and use the Oppression Points they got from this to be horrible to other people… people would recognize that this meant they probably introduced horrible racist, transphobic and intersexist ideas into the discourse and actually think through them and deconstruct them.

You’d think.

[dogsanddiscourse]

Okay, but the idea of calling out Discourseprincesa on your own blog was horrifying. She had tons of followers and power, and had trackers so even if you wanted to do it anonymously she had god knows how much info on you. She had tons of supporters that would go after you, and some of them may of even been your own friends (if you were exclusionist)

So like… once again: stop blaming mentally ill/trans people/minors (esp ones with small platforms) for not calling somebody out that was legitimately terrifying

[discourseprincesalies]

This is why I searched her blog using Tor. It’ll make your IP show up as a fake one, as well as change the IP that shows up every ten minutes or so.

In case she or someone like her shows up again, it’s a good thing to know about.

[discourseprincesareceipts]

while i don’t rec tor for a variety of reasons, i do encourage people to install the ghostery extension for chrome or their privacy browser for mobile and block most of what it recommends. i think i had to un-click a few tumblr specific ones to get the reblog button back on chrome; mobile’s more tricky, i haven’t found where to change block settings, but you can go on someone’s blog with a stat counter and block it that way. it blocks most of the common stat counters that people use on tumblr, meaning your ip won’t show up at all unless they’re actually more tech savvy than that (hint: most people are not).

[discourseprincesareceipts]

additionally, while not a minor, i’m trans and mentally ill, and yeah, even after creating a side blog, it wasn’t a fucking cake walk, but please stop acting like it was impossible to take a stand? i watched multiple bloggers, whom i have a hell of a lot more respect for now, not reblog stuff from her or defenses of her. did i worry about what i’d say if people asked me why i wasn’t reblogging that stuff? heck yeah, but that doesn’t mean i gave in and started defending her when my gut said something was off.

i fully understand why most people didn’t say anything, but i really wish everyone would stop making excuses about it. it doesn’t help the mixed poc hurt by her actions. it doesn’t help the intersex people hurt by her actions. it doesn’t help trans women hurt by her actions. all it does is set the stage for her or someone like her to come in and do this all over again. that’s not acceptable to me and it shouldn’t be acceptable to you either.

[problematicdragonagecharacter]

its really telling to me how most peoples priorities are that they feel sad, that they lost a valuable friend or someone they looked up to, that people who “rub it in their face” are evil, that the blog who exposed them was creepy, yadda yadda

but not that there was, among their friends, a white non-intersex cis gentile who pretended to be a jewish trans intersex afrolatina, who said the n word every other post, and used her made-up identities to harass people (because thats what she constantly did, harassed people, i dont remember her making any point that wasnt a repetition of what others said, she just said “yikes” occasionally and harassed people)

thats not the priority

[vulcanvaporwave]

i feel the same way. i’ve seen so many people saying “um yall were harassing her into sending nudes basically” when the receipt blogs were only posting things she freely shared- the difference was that her claims were all together instead of spread out. and nobody has provided a better way that the callout should have been done, so it really seems like some people would have rather stayed in the dark and let her keep speaking for trans women etc bc it meant they didn’t have to deal with the fallout

[redandfranticfeelings]

we should also make it clear that while discourseprincesa was lying after all, it is creepy to make entire blogs about finding out somebody’s birth gender. you can pull up posts of theirs that contradict them and confront them about it, but discourseprincesalies was still invasive as a concept and nobody should try to follow their example if they get suspicious of other discoursers.

[acephobiafreediscourse]

i want to emphasise again how fucking creepy that shit was. like, they literally sifted through her blogs (INCLUDING her main, which she didn’t give out! for! a! reason!) for mentions of genitalia. i don’t give a single shit that they turned out to be right that’s still a disgusting thing to do.

[problematicdragonagecharacter]

“which she didn’t give out! for! a! reason!”

yeah, the reason was that she was lying lol

idk why youre so preoccupied in demonizing the person who exposed her rather than, idk, focusing on the fact that dip lied to everyone and was an afab non-intersex white gentile who said the n word constantly and yelled at trans women and jewish people. i thought that would have been the big deal in the whole situation but apparently not, you guys seem so bummed she was exposed i feel like you wish she hadnt been

[acephobiafreediscourse]

its fucking disgusting but so is dedicating hours to trying to construct a picture of someones genitals. fuck off

[discourseprincesareceipts]

who was doing that? i didn’t do that. discourseprincesalies didn’t do that. we both posted statements discourseprincesa said on her PUBLIC blog (in most cases, without prompting from any outside source) that conflicted. like could you please actually look at discourseprincesalies blog instead of saying the same shit discourseprincesa said to discourage people from looking at the receipts they had?

i get that y'all feel bad about supporting a white cis dyadic girl who spoke over poc, intersex people, and trans women, but the whole “it’s nasty to take screenshots of someone’s public statements on their public blog that they made without prompting” is getting really fucking old.

[redandfranticfeelings]

we should also make it clear that while discourseprincesa was lying after all, it is creepy to make entire blogs about finding out somebody’s birth gender. you can pull up posts of theirs that contradict them and confront them about it, but discourseprincesalies was still invasive as a concept and nobody should try to follow their example if they get suspicious of other discoursers.

[discourseprincesareceipts]

how, exactly, do you suggest dealing with something like this next time? because i did find and pull up a post that conflicted with her narrative that she’d managed to miss when she scrubbed her blog of her agab and confronted DiP with it and all i got was 1) a lot of shit for my trouble and 2) DiP just changed her story and lied more in response.

also y'all shit all over discourseprincesalies and lgbtkhaleesi and still do to this fucking day, but they were the ONLY ONES talking directly about her actually lying and without the former, DiP would still be on here lying about being a jewish/black/native intersex trans woman so that she could speak over oppressed people she disagreed with.

i’m afab trans, but i consider both blogs to be decent allies; lgbtkhaleesi def made some bad steps along the way, but i appreciate her putting her neck out for trans women when it wasn’t easy. i don’t trust the people still shitting on her, especially since i thought a couple of them were DiP socks…and even tho she deleted, i’m still not entirely convinced DiP doesn’t have a second account with socks.

so please, explain to me what we should do next time someone starts saying suspiciously conflicting things and deleting posts that could be used as evidence. because i’m really fucking curious about what you think would be respectful AND effective because what you suggest in this post wasn’t effective at all lmao.

[discourseprincesalies]

Seconded.

I didn’t create this blog because I had a grudge against her for disagreeing with me in the discourse; I saw her and her posts cross my dash over and over and over, with a story that kept changing.

She was the one who kept bringing up her genitals as a gotcha, like in that post that went “TERFs don’t think I’m a real woman because I’m trans but I literally have a vagina and uterus which is part of their criteria for being a real woman, lol.” She said she was AFAB, then deleted it and said she’d never talked about her AGAB and it was rude to ask, and then said she wasn’t AFAB. She changed her story from “I’m chemically intersex” to “my body has all the internal characteristics of both a ‘man’ and a ‘woman’” to “I was born with both a penis and a vagina and I was forcibly assigned female at 2, and I just found that out so I’m now going to say I was a trans woman all along.”

She was the one who kept changing the story about her race, who suddenly started identifying as Jewish when Jewish issues came up in the discourse, who invented a story about her grandmother dying in the Holocaust when the Holocaust came up in the discourse. I watched her keep changing her story and it sickened me.

If it’s okay for us to screenshot what inclusionists have said on their public blogs and point out how what they’re saying is a lie, it’s okay for us to do it to our own side.

[hoydenol]

Since we managed to get ourselves in this situation

here’s a smart list about how to tell if someone is Catfishin for SJ points from My Paranoid Long Time Internet Using Ass

Tries to insert themselves in as many discussions as possible, especially through claiming they have specific yet wide range of identities. Often winds a really convoluted story on how this came to be, and if they’re sloppy, they mix up the details from time to time. There’s a difference between your identity changing and your whole life story changing to fit a presented narrative.

Dodges responsibility for like, anything. Won’t admit to being wrong, even when obviously wrong, often going for low blows instead of actual replies - or stops replying. This technically isn’t related to lying about internet identities, but rather the type of person who would lie about their internet identity. There’s a difference between getting fed up with a nasty conversation and doing this with every conversation that doesn’t resolve in a way beneficial to your image.

Intentionally tries to play Wounded Gazelle to divert negative attention, usually with a lot of guilt tripping and manipulative language. This tends to happen after they build enough of a base of support. Sock puppet accounts to add extra oomph isn’t particularly common, but you should be wary when someone dedicates a large amount of their blogging defending a single individual. There’s a difference between struggling with self-hatred + abuse and intentionally trying to victimize yourself whenever possible.

Someone obviously isn’t always lying when they do this, because that’s unfair to people wanting to protect their identity and information, but if they don’t share photos of themselves, or they share heavily edited photos. Even though this can absolutely be damning in terms of evidence (such as euthanizeallwhitepeople stealing someone’s photos??? what was that), it can be really invasive and probably not the most savory route to go down if you want to keep friends. That said, there’s a difference between maintaining online privacy and maintaining a facade. 

There’s more signifiers, but they can possibly go wrong and aren’t to be relied on. This ranges from They Are Bad Writer (by this i mean their posts read like a racist writing someone non-white), Lack of Research (A white Jewish family helped your white-passing Rromani grandma get to America in a suitcase in the heat of the second world war? fascinating, a truly believable narrative!), and just Covering Tracks (hope someone archived all those links before they deleted!).

Honestly, I was in this position, I’d at least keep a word document to better organize my lies and not make anything new up. I would have at least made a fake main account instead of giving out my actual literal main (which, if you do want my actual literal main, shoot me a message! you too can watch me gush about bad children’s shows!) and not let any of my other actual literal social media accounts get involved. Maybe would have opted for not posting any photos on either instead of posting a single b&w picture of my eye or someone else’s online photos. Better yet, I wouldn’t do it at all, because that’s an awful thing to do, and there are far more productive ways to promote social justice than to shove myself in those spaces. Let’s be real though, people don’t do this out of the goodness of their hearts.

You aren’t an idiot for falling for Discourseprincesa’s facade and defending her to the end, or if you fell for past SJ catfishes before. That’s what they wanted, and some people are good at winding up a story and grooming an audience. Manipulative people exist - that’s a fact of life. The most you can do is warn other people and never drop your guard around those you suspect as deceitful. 

[discourseprincesalies]

ugh i feel so awful for supporting her so thoroughly, like, she made a lot of genuinely good points and i, a white dyadic person, wasn't going to question her on the stuff bc i thought she would know better than i did? and i feel so bad for trusting her after all of that like, what the fuck (i think the only thing i still support her on is that it's Kinda Fucked Up to request proof of a trans woman being a trans woman, even though in this case that was absolutely the right thing to do :/)

I’m going to reiterate: she was the one who kept bringing up her genitals and made all the contradictory claims. Most of the posts about her genitals that I collected were created before the callout, and were not prompted by courteousmingler or lgbtkhaleesi. Discourseprincesa liked to bring up her genitals unprompted as a gotcha (like the time she brought up her vagina and uterus as a gotcha against TERFs who supposedly didn’t believe she was a real woman).

It was possible to tell she was lying before the callout, before her main was found - and, I emphasize, it was much easier for me and the others who collected the evidence to know she was lying, because we weren’t friends with her and didn’t have a reason to want to believe her. We also saw the callout of medievalpoc happen and recognized a pattern; I think a lot of the people who were tricked by discourseprincesa didn’t.

I’m sorry that she tricked you and betrayed your trust. She manipulated and tricked a lot of vulnerable people.

[vulcanvaporwave]

“um don’t get mad at ppl who believed/defended discourseprincesa uwu she acted like she knew what she was talking about”

asking that people use critical thinking skills is not an unreasonable burden, sorry

[discourseful]

fuck mentally ill people amiright ladies

[softaphobeaesthetic-deactivated]

Hey op maybe stop being a fucking condescending asshole, yeah? :)

[vulcanvaporwave]

@discourseful @softaphobeaesthetic (i’m responding to both of you on this reblog so that’s why the mentions)

i’m mentally ill and it doesn’t make me or anyone else incapable of critical thought, even if it can be more of a struggle. (that’s actually a bit of an ableist mindset in the first place - the idea that if something is difficult for a mentally ill person, that they can never work on it or improve or anything.) if you find that critical thought/analysis is really difficult, or that you’re having a lot of trouble separating your liking of a person from considering the facts of a situation, i genuinely suggest stepping back from situations like the initial support of dp, rather than spreading potentially damaging information. this might come off as condescending but i really do mean it in earnest, it’s a lesson i’ve learned as a mentally ill person who’s struggled with stuff like this in the past.

i apologize that this post came off condescending, i wasn’t as thoughtful as i should have been when wording it. i’ll try to edit it this evening when i have more time. my intended message was that we should look critically at the community mindsets that allowed someone to lie like she did for as long as she did, not that yelling at people for believing her is okay.

[vulcanvaporwave]

“um don’t get mad at ppl who believed/defended discourseprincesa uwu she acted like she knew what she was talking about”

asking that people use critical thinking skills is not an unreasonable burden, sorry

[discourse-from-hell]

Mm nice ableism also…this is an abuse tactic. Most of the people who trusted her were trans and it’s kinda gros that you tell ppl “well I could see it bc I’m smarter than all of u so why couldn’t YOU see it, guess ur not smart like me UwU even though some people have trouble interpreting and reading ppl, i.e autistic people etc.”

[vulcanvaporwave]

being mentally ill doesn’t mean u can’t think critically. people have admitted to blindly supporting dp when the callout blog started because they assumed she was in the right, rather than because they actually looked at the evidence, considered it, and didn’t believe it. it’s not about being smart or nt or whatever, it’s about not ignoring things that don’t mesh with your perception of a person. being mentally ill can make this harder but it’s not a reason to not try

interpreting/reading people doesn’t come into this situation, i’m referring specifically to people who saw that there was a callout blog and rallied behind her blindly

and how exactly is this an abuse tactic

[vulcanvaporwave]

“um don’t get mad at ppl who believed/defended discourseprincesa uwu she acted like she knew what she was talking about”

asking that people use critical thinking skills is not an unreasonable burden, sorry

[figuregayting]

Questioning people about their genitals or intersex conditions is gross and intersexist as is questioning their race extremely racist but yeah hide behind “ur all dumb!!! Haha dumb people cant observe!!”

[vulcanvaporwave]

i’m not calling anyone dumb, my issue is that when the callout blog first started a lot of people rallied behind discourseprincesa seemingly without reading any of the receipts, which included her giving differing reports of her asab (she said she was afab during the summer and then switched to calling herself transfem at some point after that). the intersex thing came up because people noticed she had mentioned having a vagina and a uterus, which along with her past claims of being afab pointed to her being dishonest about being a trans woman/transfem. 

she also made a LOT of claims about her race that didn’t line up, and she was trying to speak in a way that she shouldn’t if she wasn’t a member of the group, like the transfem thing and some blood quantum jokes she made. all the callout blog did was hold up all of her different lies next to each other and say “these can’t all be true”, which they weren’t

i’m not saying anyone should have immediately been questioning her about her background, because that actually is shitty, but once the blog started i don’t feel that many exclusionists really gave it any consideration and just assumed “oh, discourseprincesa wouldn’t do that, i don’t even need to look at any of this”. that’s where critical thinking comes in, not blindly assuming she was in the right

if you’re trying to speak on issues for x group and people ask if you’re part of x group, that isn’t invasive or unreasonable. asking discourseprincesa if she was a trans woman was not invasive because she was speaking on trans women’s issues. noticing that someone is giving a lot of contradictory claims and making that known is not the same as starting a witch hunt.

[antiblackness-archive]

discourseprincesa is a dusty ass dyadic cis white bitch who lied about being an afrolatina intersex trans woman and i hope she gets beat up in the streets

[antiblackness-archive]

here’s just one instance of her using the n-slur despite being a white woman. you could argue white passing, but she’s literally said herself she’s “as white as mayonnaise.” there’s more of her using the n-slur here and here (my personal messages with princesa). this post from discourseprincesalies primarily calls her out on faking being an intersex trans woman (also touches a little on race faking). that in and of itself is incredibly intersexist and transmisogynistic. princesa has lied about virtually everything, finally got caught in her tracks and deleted both her discourse blog and main blog. any other receipts can be found at discourseprincesalies, since they’ve been calling her out since the beginning.

[vulcanvaporwave]

elaboration on the race-faking: she claimed that her grandmother died in bergen-belsen before it closed in 1945, and that her sperm donor father (who was half afrolatino and half dutch + sephardi, and also taino and arowak and something else i think) was born in 1938, before her grandmother's jewish family sent her back to europe. in the early 40s.

also this isn't really a receipt but she once accused someone of being white because they were using the white clapping emoji

[vulcanvaporwave]

“um don’t get mad at ppl who believed/defended discourseprincesa uwu she acted like she knew what she was talking about”

asking that people use critical thinking skills is not an unreasonable burden, sorry

[discourseprincesalies]

Discourseprincesa’s main is figlias

Proof: a post she accidentally reblogged to the wrong blog (aphobebambina is her old username) (a followup post for more proof)

And look, she said she uses tampons on December 10th:

She’s a liar. She does not have the various intersex conditions she claims to have. Someone who was born with testes will not have a period.

Even if her story was true, she would not be able to claim the title of a trans woman, but her story is not true. She was assigned female at birth.

And she tells a different ethnic story on that blog than she does on discourseprincesa:

[lgbtkhaleesi]

figlias.tumblr.com/post/146721501721/nails-are-done-now-all-thats-left-to-do-is-p

Can only post the link cause mobile but she’s white “as mayonnaise” as she says to others

[vanillawound]

okay a lot of this doesn’t prove anything though in terms of being intersex/trans like she wasn’t afab

and you’re neither so shouldn’t be speaking on it either

[vulcanvaporwave]

she claimed to have (non-descended) testicles and a uterus- you can't have both testicles and ovaries, which means that if what she said was was true she wouldn't be able to menstruate. she also talked about being afab on her dp blog until this summer, and she deleted both of her blogs once this came out. she definitely wasn't a trans woman and based on how she lied constantly i doubt she was intersex, certainly not in the many contradictory ways she claimed. she also lied about her race so there's that as well

[stoplesbophobia]

can someone please legit give me a specific example of arophobia that cant be debunked?

[puellaphobia]

I headcanon Ross from friends as aro…. people tell me he’s “‘straight”’…. homophobia is nothing compared to this…….