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This interview with Ncuti Gatwa crossed my dash again, and I was reminded of how much I like it. Because it makes the rare Third Argument for representation in fiction, the argument I think is the best, and I'm always happy to see it. I quote:
At times, Gatwa’s casting in those projects has been dismissed as an exercise in ‘box-ticking’. Gatwa scoffs. ‘First of all, you don’t know anything about me. Secondly, tick fcking boxes! People need to be fcking seen. What are you going to do, tell the same stories? Have the same people fronting things for all of eternity? Representation and inclusivity and branching out… it enriches us all. How embarrassing. You people with your tiny mindsets – open a book, look out the window and then f*ck off.’ (source)
What do I mean by the Third Argument? Well, I'm not sure I've ever made a post about this directly, but as far as I can see it, there are three main arguments for greater diversity in popular media. The first two are the most common, and they go like this:
It is good for media to be diverse because it is good for people to see people like them on screen. That is, the beneficiaries are marginalized people.
It is good for media to be diverse because it is good for people to see and learn about people who are not like them through art. That is, the beneficiaries are non-marginalized people, who then (hopefully) pass on the benefit by treating marginalized people better.
These two arguments are the source of a lot of debate here on ye olde tumblr. Despite both being arguments for representation, they pull in different directions. What counts as 'good' representation for the purposes of Argument 1 often would not be good for the purposes of Argument 2, and vice versa. Authentic versus sympathetic. Ugly or over-sanitized. You see this debate play out constantly. It's really hard for a piece of - say - queer media to do both at once.
But these debates tend to leave out Argument 3, the one that Gatwa is making above. And that argument cuts through a lot of this debate.
3. It is good for media to be diverse because art needs variety. The beneficiary of representation is art itself, absent any social effects that may or may not be present.
For this argument, diverse stories are intrinsically good. It is good to make art that's not just the same thing you've seen a hundred times before. Putting the kinds of people who don't often make it into mainstream media into your art is an extremely efficient way to make that happen. It's not the only method, but it's a really good method.
For representation to be 'good representation' according to Argument 3, all it needs to be is interesting. A story you haven't heard before, at least not in that medium. That which counts as 'bad representation' by the lights of this argument are stock characters, like the Eternally Patient Mother, the Gay Best Friend, the Wise Black Advisor. Perhaps there was a time in which these characters were new, but that time has long passed. There's no art in pulling a bog-standard character trope off the shelf. Show us a new kind of guy. The world is infinitely diverse. You're not going to run out. Telling the same stories with the same voices for all eternity, as Gatwa says, is boring. Even if there was nothing else wrong with it, this would be. Art isn't supposed to be boring.
And that's why Argument 3 is my favourite. I do want the world to be a better place, of course, and I think art is a part of that. But the main job of art is to be good as art. And diversity in all aspects of the production of art makes art better.
The new Odyssey adaptation has inevitably gotten people talking about a Muppet version of it, and they’re frequently suggesting Kermit as Odysseus, Miss Piggy as Penelope.
I’m sorry but that’s thinking way too small, hear me out:
We need to have Miss Piggy as Odysseus, and Kermit as Penelope.
Think about it… who’s the more fickle, prideful, warlike one in that relationship? Who is absolutely ready to go ham, at a moment’s notice?
It ain’t Kermit
"Who stabbed you in the eye, Polyphemus?" "Moi! Moi stabbed me!" "He stabbed himself. Sad."
Hey so I'm gonna be very very honest here.
And this is going to make a lot of people very angry to hear.
But a lot of y'all on this website are truly deeply genuinely never going to be capable of any kind of real narrative analysis--and I don't mean 'being right all the time' I mean 'meaningfully engaging with the text in any way'--
Because you are, fundamentally, incapable of comprehending that writers usually do things on purpose.
The themes are there on...purpose.
The match cuts were meticulously designed and put there to communicate something.
The VA's delivery of a line was being directed. Inflection and tone change the meaning of dialogue. This is intentional. There are entire teams of people shaping those choices and deciding which take to use based on what works best for the story.
Information is being revealed in a specific order, on purpose, to craft an emotional arc and guide the audience's understanding.
A character's romantic preferences are only, and SHOULD only be, their primary motivation if the genre is romance. That is why there is a genre called that. Most stories are other genres.
Creators who dislike a character generally give them LESS attention, MORE boring storylines, and LESS screentime.
Sometimes curtains are just blue. But if the shot composition or written narration takes time to HIGHLIGHT, especially more than once, that the curtains are blue, then the blueness of the curtains is by definition narratively important.
"Cite your sources" is not a witch's curse that banishes People With Different Opinions to the shadowrealm of Being Wrong. Someone making points that challenge your perceptions, while including screenshots and explicit examples, cannot be dismissed with "cite your sources" because they are literally doing that. Don't @ me on this one I've seen shit in the wars, y'all.
Failing to understand these things WILL bar you from ever really engaging with or understanding any narrative more complicated than Paw Patrol for the rest of your life.
I am very sorry if that makes you angry.
This post is fantastic. The notes are truly incredible.
OP: you guys are never going to be able to meaningfully engage with story and character analysis if you cant understand or aren't willing to even consider the context within writers create their stories and the intention behind characters actions and motivations, which are intentional and complex. Not everything begins and ends with romance and relationships, in fact most stories outside of the romance genre feature more complex themes and motivations than straightforward romance and romantic love. Sorry if that makes you mad.
Everyone in the notes: ... I am overwhelmed with fury over this ridiculous and incomprehensible statement, how dare you. Many genres focus on romance, have you never watched a movie? There is always romance. Why would you say only the romance genre should include romance. I will not engage any further with what you said or consider additional context.
Shout-out to the person who said that romance is the primary motivation of many characters outside of the romance genre, and the example that they gave for this was.... Glenn Close, in Fatal Attraction.
.... you know I do think there may have been something more significant than romantic attraction motivating this character, who is a violent obsessive stalker. In fact, it could be something a little more... fatal?
Part of me wonders what they thought of the movie Obsession, but mostly I am too afraid to ask.
I love Binface so much.
this is fucking killing me bro. computah, show me more hot hockey firefighters whaling on cops
Ah Paretta. Never change. This dude starts fights and wins every year that he plays in the charity game. And better yet, he doesn't just pick a random cop that's playing. He specifically spends all year researching which ones have beat their spouses or are being investigated for corruption, then mocks them and eggs them on social media for like 6 months straight just to make sure they know ahead of time they're getting their ass beat.
He know how to fight, too. That kidney punch looked painful
i think everyone should program at least once just so you realise just how fucking stupid computers are. because theyre so fucking stupid. a computer wants to be told what to do and exactly that and if you make one typo or forget one detail it starts crying uncontrollably
I hate what AI has done to the sparkle emoji. Give it back
my family used to have this sort of abstract watercolour painting up in our dining room, it was there as early as i can remember, and i always hated it. one day when i was like ten my mom came up to me, and i guess handed me something but i dont remember what, and she was like “can you put this on the shelf, by the bird painting?”
and i was like “..the what?”
and she was like “the painting of the bird on the branch. can you put it there” and she pointed to the abstract painting
and i was like “how is that a bird”
and she said “well what do you think it is?”
and was like “it’s a beached whale with a giant eye, blowing blood out of its blow hole onto the legs of a guy who’s running away”
..and i guess my mom thought that was like funny or weird or something so she told my dad about it, and he immediately said “oh, you mean the reindeer painting?”
Your parents are wrong that’s a whale
okay so this painting is “Reindeer Nights” by Peter Kitchell and it’s one of a set of four paintings that go together so I thought maybe seeing the whole thing would help but
it doesn’t
Weird Fantasy (1950) #18 written by Al Feldstein and drawn by Joe Orlando, with editor Bill Gaines
So he said it can't be a Black. So I said, "For God's sakes, Judge Murphy, that's the whole point of the Goddamn story!" So he said, "No, it can't be a Black". Bill just called him up and raised the roof, and finally they said, "Well, you gotta take the perspiration off". I had the stars glistening in the perspiration on his Black skin. Bill said, "Fuck you", and he hung up.
Al Feldstein, Tales of Terror: The EC Companion
Just to add context for those not aware of the impact of this story.
The reason it was so important for narrative purposes, was that the plot concerns the visit of the Astronaut, in his completely opaque spacesuit, to a planet populated entirely by self-aware robots (originally from Earth) who have built their own society and are petitioning to be allowed to interact with Earth again as equals.
They have a democratic government and free choice of careers etc. as the orange robot serving as guide tells the Astronaut.
The Astronaut notices that there are two different types of robot on this world; the orange ones, who are in charge, gifted access to all information and facilities. and the blue robots, who are seen as more limited in function, have less access to information and resources, and are not allowed positions of power or as wide a choice of employment opportunities. Even transportation is segregated.
The Astronaut investigates further and discovers that the blue and orange robots are actually structurally identical, there is absolutely no difference between their potential or capabilities, and it is only because the orange robots are instructed by their Educator system to consider themselves superior, that the difference exists.
The Astronaut tells the robots they are not ready for re-alignment with Earth, until they come to terms with their own unfairness, and how Earth had had to deal with this issue themselves. When that time comes, the robots will be able to ally with Earth.
Then he leaves in his spaceship, and it's only in that one final panel that we see the Astronaut is black.
Not subtle, nor should it be, but for 1950 this was a breathtakingly powerful statement, perhaps the first of it's kind in the genre.
The black character was not a caricature, or comedy relief, he was a main character in his own right, a human who "simply" was black.
Ok, but this story is sadly revolutionary even now. That is not just a human who happens to be black, as far as every other character in this story is concerned this is the most important, maybe even the only human they ever see, who happens to be black.
As depressing as that is, but a black person just casually representing the entirety of humanity is a breathtakingly powerfull statement even today, a quarter of a century later.
“If I Am Killed For Simply Living” — Althea Davis
“i watched pluribus instead” lmao
— Franz Kafka // Richard Siken
the way this is genuinely life changing stuff for me
For the Fandom Olds, and the fandom babies, and honestly all of us in fandom who are weirded out by how freaking fast Heated Rivalry is producing content, I pulled some stats. This is all from ao3, mostly because I can’t access FF.net.
These are a variety of popular ships from english language canons to try to get a reasonable(ish) comparison. They’re either mathematically popular, or perceived as extremely popular despite having fewer works posted. Years are measured since that ship spiked in popularity. If it’s the overall fandom, the year is when it was first released in any capacity.
I’m excluding crossovers.
Hollanov - 41k works (8 months) Spirk - 25k works (59 years) Stony - 48k works (14 years) Stucky - 69k works (nice) (15 years) Johnlock - 72k works (16 years Drarry - 85k works (26 years) Destiel - 123k works (12 years)
Game Changer Books - 47k works (2018) Star Trek (all) - 121k works (1966) Avengers, incl comics - 308k works (1963) MCU - 649k works (2008) Sherlock Holmes - 165k works (1887/2010) Harry Potter - 641k works (1997) Supernatural - 294k works (2005) Dr Who - 70k works (2005)
But Strife! you say, this is unbalanced because modern fandoms can’t be compared to the ancient texts! Don’t worry, I’ve got you, here's some more recent things.
Hollanov - 41k works (8 months) Stucky - 69k works (15 years) Steddie - 38k works (4 years) Byler - 39k works (10 years) Ineffable Husbands - 66k works (7 years)
Game Changer Books - 47k works (2018) Stranger Things - 153k works (2016) The Pitt - 29k works (2025) Good Omens - 97k works (1990/2018)
But waittttttt, you say, it’s still not a clean enough comparison of the change in fandom culture! Okay. I'll get closer.
Stucky was very popular, and close to monolithic after Winter Soldier came out, yeah? And Steddie absolutely exploded after season 4 of Stranger Things came out. And Destiel (after turbohell) had a massive spike in fics! Those felt overwhelming at the time. They were an absolute feast for readers.
Hollanov arrived about 8 months ago. We’ll use that as the window length. So. In the first 8 months of the ship being around, (destiel measures after It went canon) these are how many works were published:
Hollanov - 41k works = 168/day Steddie - 12k works = 49/day Stucky - 5k works = 20/day Destiel - 10k works = 41/day
I am not making any kind of judgement on anything. I am not implying fuckall. I am not at all trying to account for the variance of one shots vs long fics.
Here's my only point:
This is some spiders georg shit.
If you're a writer and you aren't writing for HR, for the love of all things good in this world, do not compare your stats to what's happening over there. Never compare your stats, ever, even within your fandom, actually, but jesus fricking fuck, if you try to treat this outlier as your scale of success, its going to go fuck you up long term.
The government says destroying his own data during an airport interrogation was illegal.
A few things of note:
This is why people to your left have been chiding you about the "pedo" panic: now, the government can accuse you of being a "pedo" to justify committing crimes against you.
This is why people to your left have been chiding you about the "terrorist" moniker: for the last half century, the government can accuse you of being a "terrorist" to justify committing crimes against you.