Joly wants everything to be public (newspaper of may 10th)
It should come as no surprise for anybody that modern!Joly would be involved in politics.
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Joly wants everything to be public (newspaper of may 10th)
It should come as no surprise for anybody that modern!Joly would be involved in politics.
Question about French song lyrics for anyone who really knows how to read French!
The second stanza, sung by a mother, of “Le Chant du Départ” ends with these interesting lyrics:
Tous vos jours sont à la patrie: / Elle est votre mère avant nous.
"Patrie" literally means "fatherland" as far as I know. But here, the mothers of France cede their maternal place to the nation. There’s a weird grammatical play here, where "fatherland" is a feminine noun, referenced by "she." Normally this has no semantic meaning I imagine, yet the song is literally making a mother of the fatherland.
In context, would this instantly be understood by fluent French speakers to mean “motherland” instead? Or, despite having a root in the Latin word for “father,” does “la patrie” actually mean “motherland”? This is very important for my analysis of “La Marseillaise,” which is all about the fatherland producing sons and such in some stanzas.
Thaaaaaat’s a super-nuanced question—reblogging for native speakers?
Although the translation could possibly be 'fatherland' going by the etymology, I think it would be wrong in most contexts. The word patrie is not only gendered feminine ("la patrie", which indeed doesn't really hold any semantic meaning by itself), but more importantly, is also heavily coded as so. "La mère patrie" is not uncommon to hear, but even by itself, patrie is still personified as feminine by default, and a male personification would be a deliberate inversion. Unless the context strongly suggest otherwise (and no immediate example of this crosses my mind-- it's really uncommon, as far as I know), I think "motherland" should be the go-to translation for that word.
needsmoreresearch replied to your post:I
YES! Magnetism ideas of one kind or another had been around for a while and the scientific community was divided on it; and yes simply “let’s try treatments that don’t kill people all by themselves” was v. much cutting edge.
*snip*
An important thing to note, I think, about Joly’s belief in animal magnetism, is that Hugo also believed it to be working, and thought that it would eventually be reevaluated correctly by the Académie. So it is not simply that Joly, for Hugo, is going anti-establishment, but that he is going against one that refuse to accept change and is too stuck up in the Old Way of doing things to realize that they are wrong.
Yepyepyep!
This is always one of the fun and really difficult things, looking at the historical context for LM, isn’t it? I mean, it’s not just a question of “does animal magnetism work,” it’s not just “did people think it might work in the 1820s and 1830s,” it’s “but what did Victor Hugo think about it in 1862?”
Victor Hugo, resident of the science side of tumblr.
OH WOW, I didn’t know that about Hugo! Where’d you read up on it? That certainly puts the extra weight on the scale towards Joly being intended as a respectable-if-eccentric scientist.
And yeah, the stagnation of knowledge seems to have been a major fear for Hugo. Which, I mean, that’s a good fear to have!
…And now I’m thinking about the oysters again. I AM SURE THAT LAST MEAL AT CORINTH IS SUPER SYMBOLIC THE OYSTERS ARE A RUNNING THEME I SWEAR I WILL SORT THIS OUT.
it's in Hugo's proses philosophique (thanks to preliminarygaieties for giving me that link, although I have no idea where to find it in English, sorry!), with the relevant quotes being, (sorry for the butchered translations oh god what am I doing) :
Science, who believes itself to be exact, isn’t faultless. It walks on, but it stumbles. […] Science almost always starts with a blurred view. [here starts a long list of initially-discredited scientific theories that were proved right in the end], Bailly* was wrong about magnetism, [list continues]. “Madness” said the institute; “Reality” replied nature.
and;
Science became afraid when confronted with chloroform, with […], with Mesmer, with Deleuze, with Puységur, with the magnetic transe, [etc, etc.], science, in front of what seemed to be “miraculous”, shirked from its scientific duty; of examining everything, of criticizing everything, of verifying everything, of classifying everything; it stammered and offered negations where it should have experimented. [Science] closed its doors—Science, which has no other function than to open them, and which is nothing, if not the key.
[[* Bailly: Author of the first official report on animal magnetism (in 1784), which resulted in the Faculté de Médecine banning it (and threatening to revoke the licence of any doctor who practiced magnetism or simply thought it was a valid theory. France was the only country to bother doing so.) ]]
Joly seems also more enthusiastic about it than Combeferre (who is mentioned to be studying Puységur and Deleuze right before it's specified that he "affirmed nothing, denied nothing"), which makes me wonder which of them (if any) is more "right" about it in Hugo's opinion. From the proses philosophiques, I would say that it's something in between the two of them. Things of the like of orienting your bed with the Earth's magnetic field seems to be going a bit further than what directly preoccupied the Académie (or Hugo) (ie: magnetic transe, somnambulism, and its use in medicine), but, on the other hand, Combeferre still doesn't dare to take a definite stance on it and lacks said enthusiasm to really engage deeper into it (gdi Combeferre, too soft again).
And I think I forgot where I was going with that. But yeah, respectable-if-eccentric scientist does stand, and is very probably what Hugo intended.
Yes to all of this! And in an era where you just didn’t know what was causing diseases, the idea that magnets might help was not so far-fetched. And even today, when you encounter those terrifying situations where something’s medically wrong but the doctors don’t know what it is and/or don’t know how to help, you definitely see people resorting to a treatment program of “Let’s throw this against the wall and see if it sticks.”
And, oh, man, standard early 19th century medicine was horrifying. I have an American medical text from that era, and the author basically suggests enemas as a cure-all.
Basically, it was a really exciting period in science because there was so much that they didn’t know yet, so much to be discovered, but at the same time, a kind of a scary period because there was so much that they didn’t know yet.
needsmoreresearch replied to your post:I
YES! Magnetism ideas of one kind or another had been around for a while and the scientific community was divided on it; and yes simply “let’s try treatments that don’t kill people all by themselves” was v. much cutting edge.
Yes! Joly’s an adorable goofball, because that’s who he is. But his scientific ideas are incredibly serious and somewhat daring, not just wacky pseudoscience (what can even be CALLED pseudoscience in that context? Had the scientific method itself even really been codified? ) .
I gotta get my act together and learn more about this and write up a thing, because “what is pseudoscience” was a pretty active question at the time, one way and another. Right now I’m reading a thing from 1826, a letter encouraging the Académie to revisit the question of animal magnetism; the guy is saying “yes, I know the mesmerism stuff was written off as silly twenty years ago and there were some silly things about it but THIS TIME we know more!”
And then there’s a huge element of, like, establishment vs. anti-establishment, where people had for a long time been questioning the validity of the Académie’s judgments on what was or was not acceptable science, etc.
I still don’t really have a sense yet of, like…where Joly’s pet magnetic theory falls, if you popped back to 1828 and ran a poll of “Science or Pseudoscience” among French doctors. You’d probably get a range of “oh yeah magnetism is totally the thing,” “UGH THAT QUACKERY,” and “eh, whatever, it seems like it helps some patients and it’s not killing them so…”
I know one of the things in my medical reference posts cites that Joly turns his bed the opposite way from prevailing magnet-theory orthodoxy, gasp, shock.XD But yeah, I think it would have depended on who you asked? The Academie itself, maybe it would go “ugh, THAT again”, maybe there were loudly arguing factions—PROBABLY there were, that was an age of almost literally warring academics as far as I can tell—.and then again, if you asked the sort of people who joke about having to get themselves killed without a doctor’s expert help, you’re going to have another whole set of opinions. Getting a line on “commonly accepted” at that point is HARD.
Yeah— I think it’s easy (like, really super easy, I am not casting any aspersions at all here) to lose track of where Joly’s experiments fit into their setting, given that Joly’s presented as a cheerful,goofy person, and science has, thankfully, MOVED ON. But like with Bossuet and his politics, the cheerfulness of the person isn’t meant to detract from the importance and seriousness of the WORK; as Hugo says upfront, overall we should regard them seriously, even while acknowledging that they are INCREDIBLE DORKS, because they’re also smart, caring people putting a lot of brainwork and energy into trying to change the way the world works.
And yeah, bobcatmoran , exactly! And why not? When you’re facing disaster, and there’s nothing to be done, why not try EVERYTHING.
An important thing to note, I think, about Joly’s belief in animal magnetism, is that Hugo also believed it to be working, and thought that it would eventually be reevaluated correctly by the Académie. So it is not simply that Joly, for Hugo, is going anti-establishment, but that he is going against one that refuse to accept change and is too stuck up in the Old Way of doing things to realize that they are wrong.
An honest-to-goodness sword cane, from late 19th century Spain.
The original tune to ‘La Faute à Voltaire’? (Kind of…) and the Bahorel connection
The internet seems to point me towards two songs as sources for Gavroche’s ‘La faute à Voltaire’. One of them (this article says that it was the earlier of the two) is by someone called Jean-François Chaponnière, and you can find the lyrics here. It does indeed have the ‘C’est la faute de Voltaire / C’est la faute de Rousseau’ refrain, but the structure of the stanzas doesn’t seem to fit very well with Hugo’s version.
The other source version is rather closer in terms of structure. It’s by Pierre-Jean de Béranger (who seems to turn up an awful lot in these posts). It has a few variants kicking about, but this appears to be the full version. (This version leaves out the verse accusing the clergy of sodomy, presumably on the grounds that it was a little too racy…)
The general background to both songs is complicated and political and so I am really not the right person to try to explain it, so the potted version, as far as I can make it out, is as follows. It is very Bahorelian. Both songs were written in 1817 in response to a ‘mandement de carême’ – the same kind of notice that Bahorel tears down in 4.2.4, L’enfant s’étonne du vieillard. (Hapgood translates it as a ‘Lenten admonition’, so given my incredible ignorance about matters ecclesiastical I’ll go with that.) The 1817 admonition, as far as I can work out, was basically a declaration that Voltaire and Rousseau were dangerously seditious authors who were pretty much single-handedly responsible for causing the Revolution. There were apparently a few book-burnings, but for the most part it seems that people reacted by writing satirical songs in which they mockingly blamed Voltaire and Rousseau for pretty much everything going, up to and including the temptation of Eve. They also brought out new editions of the authors’ works. (See here for an account in English of all this, which also includes a partial verse translation of the Béranger song.)
There is more than that, though, to link the song to Bahorel – to the extent that I would be very surprised if it were a coincidence. The last verse of the Béranger version runs as follows:
À ces causes, nos chers fils, Dieu permet qu’on vous permette De manger des salsifis Et des œufs à la mouillette. Si vous mangez bœuf ou veau, C’est la faute de Rousseau ; Buvez-vous de l’eau claire ? C’est la faute de Voltaire.
For these reasons, our dear sons,
God permits that you are permitted
To eat salsify
And eggs with soldiers.
If you eat beef or veal,
It is the fault of Rousseau ;
Do you drink clear water ?
It is the fault of Voltaire.
I’m not even going to try to get all the Lenten fast references out of that (salsify, seriously ?) but my point here is : permission to eat eggs. Gavroche is singing a song that is based on a song that is pretty much all about Bahorel, and this just makes their relationship even more painful better. (I should say here that many thanks are due to pilferingapples for first winning me over to the friendship between these two.)
Anyway, I promised tunes. I haven’t had any luck tracking down the tune to the Chaponnière song ; the lyrics I linked to above just says the tune is a new one by ‘M.E.’, which is not very easy to track down. The Béranger version, though, says that it should be sung to the tune of ‘Allez voir à Saint-Cloud’, and after a bit of work I managed to track down (in the ever-helpful Clé du caveau) a tune called ‘Allons la voir à Saint-Cloud’. The furthest I have been able to trace it back is to a vaudeville called ‘La girouette de Saint-Cloud’, which was first performed in Brumaire, year 8 (which I think works out to November 1799 in the Gregorian calendar). Anyway, the tune seems to fit the Béranger song, and (because it has the same metre) it works for Gavroche’s version too. Because Gavroche’s verses are shorter you only need use the second half of the tune (after the repeat) but for the sake of completeness I transcribed the whole thing.
Wow, that’s a really great bit of research and connecting! It deserves some equally sharp commentary! Unfortunately, this:
is what you’re getting from me, because THIS HAS KILLED ME.
HEY assumesarcasm REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE ASSUMING HE’D JUST MOVED ON AND FORGOTTEN THE WHOLE HALF-DAY BONDING EXPERIENCE APPARENTLY NOT SO MUCH
WELL I LOVE BEING WRONG
French medical students and their mistresses.
Gavarni, “Oeuvres choisies de Gavarni : études de moeurs contemporaines” (1847), translated by and screencapped from F. Pallualt’s “Medical Students in England and France 1815-1858”
"You needed to buy another corpse, didn’t you! You are so selfish!" Apparently MEDICAL STUDENTS GET THE BEST ARGUMENTS EVER.
Happy birthday to me
I've just overheard my sister say to my brother that the Marquise de Merteuil is her role model.
I love how gleeful Bahorel looks about tearing down the church notice.
Never too late to make friends with the kid.
For thecoffeetragedy in the miserableholidays exchange!
For a while I’ve been researching the ”science” of Animal Magnetism, which is the reason Joly believes that “man becomes magnetic like a needle" and slept with "his bed with its head to the south, and the foot to the north, so that, at night, the circulation of his blood might not be interfered with by the great electric current of the globe”.
I haven’t found any literature from the period that addresses non-somnambulic sleep positions yet, but in this journal, published 1853, there is an extensive section concerning it:
The upper half of the body in reference to the longitudinal axis is odo-negative, while the north terrestrial pole is odo-positive. When turned towards each other, unlike poles are paired, and this is agreeable. The lower half is odo-positive, and gives an agreeable combination with the odo-negative southern pole. All other positions are less pleasing, and more or less tepid, causing uneasiness or even nausea. Some of my sensitives have always carried a compass since they learned from me the cause of the unpleasant sensations they had long experienced, and, when travelling, always place their bed by the needle. Highly sensitive subjects are quite unable to obtain rest in any position but that of head to north and feet to south. But even in those who are only of middling sensitiveness, as for example, M. Delhez, teacher of French in Vienna, the position of the bed has so powerful an influence, that it not only decides in regard to the nightly rest, but also in regard to the general health. A healthy sensitive must therefore observe the rule of lying always with his head to the (magnetic) north; and a sensitive afflicted with illness must absolutely and above all things be placed in this position, or all other efforts to effect a cure, and all drugs, will be found nearly ineffectual.
The Zoist: A Journal of Cerebral Physiology & Mesmerism, and their applications to Human Welfare.VOL.IV.March , 1846 to January, 1847. Volume: 4
If you’ll notice, the author is very adamant about the importance of sleeping with one’s head facing North, unlike Joly, who apparently sleeps facing the wrong direction.
I do wonder if Hugo just make a mistake, or if Joly was being particularly innovative…
3-lines replied to your video post: “Merry Christmas! Have a re-enactment of battlefield surgery during the…”:
4:53 and I don’t dare to go on
I can’t say I blame you. It used to be so much worse than what was depicted in that video, though!
(There is a textual resource discussing the advances in amputation during the Napoleonic Wars under the cut, with some graphic descriptions of surgery.):
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eee, look at this! ;3;/
A gift for assumesarcasm as a part of the Miserable Holidays art trade. I hope you have a good one!
vouksen replied to your photo “Renart respont : « Ainz n’oï tal : Tiex se plaint n’a mie de mal. ...”
ahhhHHHHH draw all the things everyone always has such personality and just. AHHH IT'S GREAT god just looking at the way they stand i hfhdlhkn I don't know how to comment on art I'm sorry IT'S SO GOOD
heEEEE this is probably the best compliment I can receive about my art