Starting to think all the backlash to the idea of the trolley problem is just people trying to hide the fact that, deep down, they know they would be too scared to pull the lever.
I suppose one of the advantages I've gained from having been in the military is that I went from a suspicion I would have the conviction to make those kinds of calls, an absolute certainty that I do have it. I've held lives in my hands, but thankfully I rose to my training and my convictions. I chose the best of the options I had available to me at the time.
There is nothing shameful about being too afraid of making the decision, in my view. But yeah, it's cowardice to project your anxiety by claiming the philosophical quandary itself is meaningless.
No reason to wonder. A ton of people openly bragged about how morally pure they were for not pulling the lever in 2024. They just hate it when you contextualize it like that and insist they were taking a third option to sound less terrible when their actions are 1:1 compared to the thought experiment.
If anything, the reason I reject it is because I consider the thought experiment ITSELF to be cowardly.
All human lives are worth the same amount, and any LOSS of human life is as large a tragedy as any other amount of lost human life. You aren't doing a GOOD thing by condemning one person to die to save four more, you're not even doing a BETTER thing. It might be the more valuable thing in a coldly utilitarian point of view, but from my moral stance death is death. You don't get to compare and contrast your way out of that.
You’d be too scared to pull the lever huh?
People hate the trolley problem because it is inherent to the problem that choosing not to act is an active choice. That's why they reject the problem itself rather than making an argument for choosing to not pull the lever. They aren't afraid to pull the lever- they're afraid to admit that their priority is keeping their own hands clean.
I don't think you guys understand the trolley problem very well. I don't really see how it would be applicable to the 2024 election, for example. For starters, the key element of the trolley problem is that you can either let five people die by doing nothing, or sacrifice one person that would have been fine otherwise. This was not at all the situation of the 2024 election - the closest thing within the framing of the trolley problem would be "five people will die if you do nothing, but you can save four of them by pulling the lever". It is of course correct that the lever should be pulled in this scenario, and it is devastating that it was not because people complained that there was no option to save all five.
But the trolley problem is not just the one scenario of 6 people tied 1v5 on two train tracks. It contains a large number of variations of, for example, who these people are, what they have done with their lives, and so on - most importantly, it includes variations of the background scenario. Many people choose to pull the lever and sacrifice one person for the sake of saving five. So how does this change if you are not talking about train tracks? What if you are, instead, in a hospital? Here are five patients in need of organ transplants to live, as well as one healthy person. The doctors will kill the healthy person and save the five patients with their organs, if you tell them to. What's the matter, then? "Choosing not to act is an active choice", isn't it? It's still five lives for the cost of one, isn't it? If you say that killing this healthy person is the correct choice, would you advocate for this politically? For choosing healthy people by lot to kill them in order to get their organs?
You can expand it further - I don't know whether the original thought experiment does this, but the way I learned it does: If we're fine killing one person to save five, are we fine enslaving one person to benefit five? And so on. None of which works in the context of the bloody 2024 election because, as I said, there was no option where you would stop the killing of the people the trolley was going to hit by sacrificing uninvolved people that would otherwise have lived. There was only an option to have the trolley only run over some of the people tied to its original track.
The million estimated deaths due to USAID cuts would like a word.
I'm not American. I didn't throw anyone on any fucking tracks.
I didn't say the choice Americans made in 2024 was the correct or justifiable one. I did, in fact, call it "devastating". I don't know how you missed that. Here, I'll highlight it for you:
it's just not a situation comparable to the trolley problem. There were no two tracks. That's an integral part of the problem, that you either kill 5 people or 1 other person. There were no two tracks of separate people. It was "Palestinians" or "Palestinians plus a lot of other people". That's a scenario incompatible with the problem.
Most of the post was an explanation of why this is not how the trolley problem works and your comment proves pretty clearly that you either didn't bother to read or lack the necessary reading comprehension.
I really did my best to phrase my previous comment in short sentences so even people with low reading comprehension would be able to follow the line of reasoning, so I hope you were just too arrogant and full of yourself to bother reading it, because otherwise that really says something even sadder about you.
I'm being a lot more polite right now than you really deserve given the heinous shit you accuse me of in your tags.
"It's not compatible with the trolley problem because it's comparing a huge negative outcome with a smaller negative outcome."
Do you also think it's not compatible with the trolley problem because it doesn't involve an actual train?
"The trolley problem is a binary choice between letting a few people die or letting more people die, unlike the last US presidential election where pir only choices were thousands of people dying or millions of people dying. Really they're incomperable!!!
-🤡
Also equating the trolley problem to this scenario: “So how does this change if you are not talking about train tracks? What if you are, instead, in a hospital? Here are five patients in need of organ transplants to live, as well as one healthy person. The doctors will kill the healthy person and save the five patients with their organs, if you tell them to. What's the matter, then? "Choosing not to act is an active choice", isn't it? It's still five lives for the cost of one, isn't it? If you say that killing this healthy person is the correct choice, would you advocate for this politically? For choosing healthy people by lot to kill them in order to get their organs?”
Makes me wonder if they even understand the trolley problem. Because in the trolley problem scenario the 1 person is also already tied to the tracks, just like the other 5. They are all in potential danger, and you can’t stop the danger (/the train) nor pull the people off the tracks. The only thing you can influence is the position of the lever, leave it as it is and 5 people die, pull it and 1 person dies.
In case of the “organ donor”, it’s a person that isn’t in danger, they aren’t even near the tracks. Killing them to take their organs would be like hunting down a person and tying them to the tracks to be run over by the train.
Anyway, the organ transplant scenario is not one where the trolley problems applies. The train has already ran over these 5 people (they literally have organ failure). Just shut the fuck up and call a doctor.




















